Ashley Stahl: The Three Inconvenient Truths You're Avoiding

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Scale up method where we teach you how to reach the next level in your business. Build your dream team and scale beyond eight figures. Too many business owners are stuck trying to do everything themselves and their businesses are suffering as a result. And I don't want you to be one of those people. I am Alison Maslin. My company, Pinnacle Global Network, has helped thousands of business owners scale their companies using my framework, the Scale it method. All business owners face similar challenges when it comes to growth. So on this podcast, we are delivering the tactics you need to finally reach that next level in your business. Build your dream team and scale beyond eight figures. And I'm super excited. Today I am talking to Ashley Stahl. She is a renowned career coach, spokesperson and best selling author. Through her work as a career coach, her online courses, her email lists, her podcasts, her two viral TEDx speeches, Ashley has helped clients in 31 countries upgrade their careers. She writes a monthly career column in Forbes which focuses on self discovery, careers, job hunting and leadership in the workforce. Her podcast your Turn is a top 100 mental health podcasts in the U.S. her TEDx talk on intuition and fulfillment received more than 6 million views. Her work has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, cbs, Self, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune and more. And I wanted to bring Ashley on the show because she knows how to connect people with both their passions and their skills. So Learning about Ashley's 10 core skills can help you strengthen your natural gifts and build a dynamite team of employees who bring their own unique skills skills to the table. I'm also excited to talk to her about her how to trust your intuition. This is such a great topic to guide you in the right direction, whether that's landing a deal or changing your career path. So learning to trust your intuition and identify your core skills will not only help you make more informed business decisions, but also help you relate to your team and increase your company morale across the board. And so, Ashley, welcome to the Scale it method.

Thank you so much for having me. What an intro. And just for the record, the show is called U Turn Podcast, but your turn is actually a really fun podcast name. Okay, Yeah, I like it.

U Turn and it's your turn. Okay.

Yeah, it's your turn to make a U turn.

Oh my goodness. Well, welcome. Thanks for being here and thank you for having me. Yeah, there's so much that I'm excited about diving in with you. But first I want to talk to you about your journey. Transitioning from government work to career coaching. Very different realms in a Sense. You used to work at the Pentagon in counter terrorism. Yeah. Wow. And. But then you decided to make the switch. When did you realize that? Okay, it's really time to. Well, actually, before I do that, why counterterrorism? I want to just know a little bit about that.

I always had an affinity for learning foreign languages, and I grew up during 9 11. Like, I remember standing where I was in high school with so many other millennials, remembering that moment and just thinking to myself that I wanted my career to matter. I wanted there to be meaning. And the highest level of meaning I thought I could do was help protect people in the world and use my natural skill set with. With languages to do that. And so I was a little bit lost in college, just like everyone is, and not really knowing what to major in. And, you know, fast forward a decade or two, and I realize that your major doesn't really matter unless you're, you know, an engineer or pre med. But I just thought to myself, like, I'm gonna pick government and history and French because I'm interested in them, and that's it. And what I didn't realize at the time was that being interested in something doesn't guarantee your success in it. There's a really big difference because between an interest and a skill set. You know, I'm interested in massages and cupcakes, but probably wouldn't be a great masseuse or baker. So, you know, I would definitely not.

The baker for me, that I would be flunking that for sure.

Yeah. Like, it. I feel like there's a big difference between being a consumer of something and a producer of that thing. I think a lot of people love consuming films, but that doesn't mean they should be a film director. They love consuming fashion, but they shouldn't be a designer. And I think this misunderstanding construes our careers. And so for me, I was very much so a part of that. And when I got into counterterrorism, I learned a lot about intuition. I learned a lot about that tool to save your life. And it just showed up in my personal life. I would talk to friends, and they would be stuck, and it was the recession. And I would start talking to them about, well, you really feel incongruent when you say this. Like, you sound like you actually mean that. And what. What it eventually lent itself to was helping them make decisions and about themselves, about their career, about who they truly were. And all of this learning that I had in counterterrorism, about intuition and all of these different intelligence Tools ended up translating and how I could actually help people get to know themselves. And that turned into my online business and the U Turn podcast and my book, and all of these things over time.

Wow. Wow, that's. I mean, it's interesting when you say, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do in college. You probably couldn't have even made. Made this journey up.

No.

You know, yeah, I'm gonna go into counterterrorism, and then I'm gonna shift into career coaching. I know. You know, I think it's great. And so. But you said that, like you said there were several moments when you're. You learned to tap into your gut. Yeah. Your gut was telling you that you were, you know, you wanted to change your field. And in your TEDx talk, you spoke about the importance, importance of the gut and how it almost acts as a second brain when we're making decisions. But I feel like sometimes, you know, you might feel that gut and maybe, you know, okay, I'm supposed to do this, or you have a feeling, but then you don't trust it, you know, and so you call them like intuitive nudges or turning points. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah. I mean, like I was saying in that TED talk, it's like we have 200 million neurons in our gut, which is why it's called the second brain. It's for a reason. It's the size of a cat or dog's brain, really, the capacity it has. So I think that we have been taught to be afraid. We have been taught to be in survival. I mean, I think about our history as humans. I studied history and, you know, there was a time where we were hunting and gathering. Like, how did we evolve into an era where we're at our chair, at our desk, or in a cubicle for so many hours per week. And I think what we're seeing right now with the great resignation is a lot of people who are fighting that. And so kind of going back to your question, I think when it comes to intuition, it's about noticing when your body's saying yes or no and not thinking so much. You know, I remember in the. I believe is 18th century, 19th century Descartes and his philosophies of if you can't see it or you can't prove it, it doesn't exist. Really dominated society. And if we look at who we really are now, we are a group of people who lead with people, the facts and intellectualize things, when the truth is that happiness and fulfillment is a Matter of the heart. And so, yes, people know what they know, but I think it's a tendency to try and not know what you know all day long. Because what we know sometimes is inconvenient. What we know sometimes will cause us to unravel our life, whether we're in the wrong relationship, we're in the wrong career, and it can feel really inconvenient. But the truth of the matter is that the most inconvenient thing of them all is, is to pretend that that thing doesn't exist, that that problem, that disconnect, isn't there, and just live your whole life slaving away at something that really isn't true for you.

Yeah. In every area of your life. Right. When you. You know, and it just is painful. I think that's where people get sick, you know, depressed, everything, you know. And so how do you. And I've been there. Like, we've all made choices out of fear instead of following our gut. How can we identify and recognize these gut feelings and discern them from anxiety or fear of the unknown?

That's a great question. I think intuition is absolute. So there's a difference between emoting and intuiting. Emoting looks like it's hot outside, and you need your hat. And if you feel like you need your hat, you can just say, it feels hot. I need my hat. People who emote, they go into a whole story. It looks like, oh, my gosh, it's so hot. And if I can't get my hat, I'm gonna get a burn. And then I'm gonna get a melasma and a sunspot, and I'm gonna look like I age. And then I can't date other people because it. It just goes. And that is what no sounds like. That's what anxiety do's. Intuition is a lot more absolute. It's a lot more simple. It sounds like, this is good for me.

It's.

This isn't good for me. This feels good, this doesn't feel good. And that's really it. And so I would encourage anyone who's wanting to get back into their intuition to just get back into the simplicity of what feels like a yes and what feels like a no in your body. Like, do you close? Do you expand? Do you contract? Do you feel a sense of inspiration? And it's really that simple. And I think as kids, you know, in today's world, there's so much. Even with the pandemic and all of these things that have been politicized, there's Very much like know different points of view, a Darwinistic point of view, like survival of the fittest. I think there's just this energy in our world right now where people are really scared. There's just a lot of fear in the air. And I get it. We live in really odd times and we are taught not to feel in order to survive sometimes. But it's that exact feeling that is the key for our fulfillment in our careers.

Yeah, that's so incredibly powerful. And so let's say you do tune in to these intuitive nudges. How do you use your intuition to help you make informed business decisions or you know, guide your career? Whatever is in front of you right now that you need to figure out.

Yeah, I mean I feel like when you live an intuitive life, it's kind of a full time decision. It's almost like the choice to live vulnerably. It's an, it's an everyday choice. It's not like it's just like love. You don't just love someone and it's over. You choose love every day and how you behave with them and how you show up with them. And so I think living through intuition is very much so a choice of am I going to let how I feel run the course of my decisions? And what's great about choosing that is that life is about what you feel when you think about setting goals. Usually you set them because you think they're going to make you feel a certain way. And the reason we see so many celebrities have meltdowns like Britney shaving her head, it's like I'm guessing that the place they thought they would be would feel different. And that's why they have a breakdown. And so I think that it's a courageous decision to live an intuitive life. And being intuitive does not mean you don't calculate your mind. It doesn't mean it's all about how it feels like yolo. But intuition is also quite practical. It's quite grounded in reality. You know, I read a lot of Osho's work, which is kind of controversial, but I do find what he has to say. Yeah, so Osho is, you know, despite how controversial he can be as a figure, I think his content around intuition, intellect and instinct is very, very, very interesting. He talks about how instinct is a matter of the body. It's, you know, your body knows to breathe if you're in a coma. And you don't have to intellectualize it, you don't have to remember it, you don't have to tell Your body to breathe, it's going to do it. As long as you're alive, it's happening automatically. Cells are firing off, cells are splitting, they're doing their job. That's all instinct, that's all animalistic animals. You know, when the tsunami came in Sri Lanka, you know, couple decades ago, they were documented as running away from the shores and you know, hours before the tsunami came their instincts, their bodies knew something was coming and to run away from the water. So I think our instincts are very powerful, but it's often confused with intuition. And then you have intellect which is all mental. And we live in a world that prioritizes intellectualizing things and you know, just kind of my mention of Descartes and his philosophies of if you can't see it, it doesn't exist. But I think that there's an ego to thinking that way because the fact that we would look at the world through the limits of our five senses and say that the five senses that we have as humans are what exists is quite narrow minded given that there are cells living on our body that we can't even see. Things happening in the invisible that we can't even know, especially on the level of our bodies and especially when it comes to these feelings. It's not just a feeling, it's cells firing off, it's in it's messages from your brain and your nervous system entering into your body. And so it's so important to be able to make that decision and say I'm going to live a life where how I feel matters.

Yeah, I think that's just that continuous awareness because there's so many people that have buried their feelings for so long to, you know, be constantly focused on staying connected to that. Do you find that that's an issue for people? That they just struggle even knowing how they feel?

Yeah, yeah. I think that people are really cut off from their feelings. And that's why at any given time, even with the majority of the workforce on the job hunt, you know, I never really think they're job hunting. I think they're clarity hunting. I think that they don't know who they are and so they keep search for that itch they can scratch. And if you're feeling cut off or you feel like you don't have clarity, whether you're a business owner or you're in the workforce, I think your first matter of business is to really just come home to yourself, to connect to yourself again. And what that really means is saying what makes me feel like me who am I? And most people don't know much about themselves beyond that. They like rap music or cupcakes or whatever it is, sorts of movies or TV shows they like. And so it's so important that we get beyond this Mrs. Or Mr. Potato Head where we have these little pieces and that we identify with those. There's so much more to the human experience. And so I would say a good question to ask yourself is what are the people or places or things that make you feel the most like you? You know, I have a beautiful group of girlfriends in my life and there's two in particular where every time I see them, I just feel me again, whoever that is, you know. You know, I feel calm, my nervous system is grounded. I just feel like I'm so in my body, I'm so present, I'm so relaxed, I'm so aligned, I'm so in harmony. And so I make a point to see them a little more often, especially when I'm off kilter. I noticed that I live in New York City, but I'm from California and back when I was there, the ocean makes me feel like me. There's something about the waves and watching them go up and down and grabbing my journal, my feet in the sand, I feel like me again. So when I was in la, there were so many times that I would just get in my car and drive to the beach and sit there when I really needed to come back to me. Also hip hop dance classes. So there's so many things that are unique to me. And so my question for anyone is the ocean does it for me. But what's your ocean? What is the thing for you? And make a point to do that because when you get back into yourself, it feels good and feeling good feels good. It's quite addictive. And once you start to feel good, you start to viscerally notice the things that don't feel so good and you can start to at least get in tune with what's a yes and what's a no for you.

That is such great advice. Thank you for sharing that. I think I'm going to go to the beach after this interview.

Yeah, that's the spirit.

I think that's so great. So now you transitioned into career coaching back in 2013, you're amazing what you do, you help people really identify their natural talents. And you know, I've read that you have 10 core skills that you help people focus on. Can you give some examples of the core skills and how they show up in the workplace?

Yeah. And Also, I mean, for anyone who reads my book, they're in chapter two, so I get right into it quite soon. But just to give you some of it, since it would take so long to go through, I love that you're asking for a few key ones. You know, I have 10 core skill sets and obviously I can't obscure humanity into 10 boxes, but I do feel like they're very indicative of the workforce, whether you're an entrepreneur or a corporate. And a few of them, for example, are words. That's one of them. That's my core skill set. And what's important to consider when you look at skill sets is whether you're an introvert or an extrovert. And I know that there's a lot of research on ambiverts, but I would encourage you to pick a lane for this one because the introverts are going to express their skill set more internally. So, for example, if words is my skill set and I'm really good at words, the introvert is going to be more behind a laptop writing or they're going to do something with content or editing or something like that, research, whatever. The words person that's more of an extrovert is going to be more external. They're going to be on more podcasts like this. They're going to be using words. They might be a salesperson, a business development person, someone who's out there using their words and turning it into money in their bank account. Another skill set is coordination. These are the detail oriented people who can cross their T's, dot their I's, they're good at project management, they're good at operations and logistics. Another core skill set is analysis, which is quite often confused with words. Analysis is a different side of your brain than the person who's very creative with communication. Another core skill set is numbers. So they're very straightforward. But it's important to really take a look at what are the different career paths. And I actually have a free quiz on my website@ashleystahl.com that helps you look at some of these skill sets and helps you identify with which one you're. You're correctly placed with.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. And what's the name of your book? So, U turn.

Oh, sorry.

Thank you.

Yeah, U turn. It's get unseen.

U turn. U turn. Yes. Okay, great.

Get unstuck. Discover your direction. Design your dream career.

Oh, I love it. So thinking of core skills in the context of an entire team, for instance, because our listeners are generally business owners and of Course, they have to tap into their own core skills, but they also need to tap into the skills and behaviors of their team. How could these core skills affect their performance? Or actually understanding this really help the CEO be a better leader? Yeah.

I think the reality is that in a lot of our work, we're pushing a river. We're being someone we're not. And that sort of energy in your career a is going to burn you out. I think burnout usually is just a reflection of someone who's been on a path that's really not for them for too long. And there's many different causes of burnout beyond that. There's not having community, there's not having sleep, there's not feeling a sense of agency. I have an episode on my podcast about burnout and the different causes and root causes. But I do think that largely, if you're not working within your skill set, your skill set dictates what kind of responsibilities and tasks you have throughout the day. So it quite literally is how you spend your time and how you experience your life in your career. And so I think it's really important to say, where am I gifted? So that you can bring more of that to the table and actually make more of an impact just by being you. And it's fun to get paid to be you. It's easier that way.

Yeah. It's interesting that you say that about burnout, and I think that's something that, you know, people have to really take that hardcore look at. Okay, if I am burned out, what's underneath that? You know, is it that I am really on a journey or on a path that's not congruent with. With who I am?

Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, a lot of people, they're so comfortable feeling like they're not themselves, that even just asking these questions can feel threatening. Because it also comes with loss sometimes to be you. Sometimes, if you really look at who you are, you're not a fit for the people in your life. And suddenly you have to ask yourself, am, am I prepared to let go of some relationships, or am I prepared to reassign these relationships to a different part of my life? And that can be really painful. And so I totally understand people who feel threatened by having a sense of self.

Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. What do you think, or why do you think it's important to, you know, within your company to hire people with different kinds of core skills for even similar roles or projects?

Yeah. I mean, if. If we're all being honest, like, there's nothing inspiring about pretending to be someone else. And so I think it's important to know where you're gifted and where you're not. So I wish I wrote about in my book how I talk a lot about identifying your core values, your core skill set and all these things, but I wish I talked about also identifying what's not your core skill set the most, because sometimes people are in careers and it's almost like personal relationships. Like, I have a friend who's dating and the other day she sat me down at dinner and she's like, he's my dream guy, except he has an anger issue. And it's like he's perfect except for every cell of his DNA that has this huge problem that rigs the whole thing.

And I think, yeah, it's kind of a big issue, kind of a big deal.

And so you think about your career, people are like, this is the perfect job. But if 70% of your job is your gift and, and the rest is the one thing that is like the opposite of your gift, you have to be really honest because that sour 30% can really infect the rest of it. So I really like to look at two things. The first thing is the what, what are you great at? And the second thing is the how. The how is about your core values. How do you thrive? What are the core values that you have? What are the non negotiable principles by which you live your life? You know, given that we know that half of people leave their job you because they don't like their boss, what we can assume to be true is that how your work looks matters just as much as what your work is. And that includes you, if you're an entrepreneur, is how you run your team, how you run your day, how you run your life, the structure of your schedule, the people you work with. That how matters just as much as what you're doing with your time.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That is so, so important. How can hiring people with a diverse set of core skills create more of an innovative workplace?

Yeah, I mean, I do still think that everybody has one core skill set they lead with. So I would look more when I'm hiring at what is the one thing that they're magical at and then what's secondary to that at most. But I think diversity in general is so important and I know that right now it's a topic, thankfully, that's gotten a lot more attention. You know, thank God. But honestly, there's so much research behind having diversity and the Diversity in worldviews and experiences has translated into so much more creativity and solutions within a company. And so I think having a diverse staff isn't just something that we should be doing to do the right thing in the world. It's something that is necessary for innovation, and it's inspiring to be seeing that. So I would say don't hire people that are jacks of all trades. Hire people that you know what their gift is and know what their secondary talent is so that you can delegate work to them. That lines up with that, too.

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. I think that it is so important and, you know, it really can add a richness to the company. People bringing different backgrounds, different points of view, and so forth. Of course, aligning with a core value, I think that that's really important, and I'd like to talk about that a little bit. You've talked about. You talked about how the core skills aren't the only component. Finding your dream career. You've talked a lot about core values, which are the ideas, the values we hold so closely to us. Like, for instance, in our company, integrity, you know, do what you say you're going to do. That's like, at the top of the list. But we also, in our core values were all about having fun, you know, and enjoying the process, not just the end in mind. And so can you just share a little bit more about what your thoughts are regarding core value?

Yeah. One of the biggest problems, I think, with core values, because a lot of leaders talk about them, but what's misunderstood is choosing words that represent who you are, not who you want to be. Who you want to be is an interesting thing to know. It's good to have a vision around that. But I think who you are now matters. And, you know, I had a lawyer as a client in my private practice, and she actually came to me for business coaching. But it was really interesting because I remember this moment where she told me that one of her core values was peace. And I remember thinking like, you're the least peaceful person. Like, you're very. You're stressed and you're high energy, and we love that about her. But your piece is not a word that I would say you are. And she started laughing so hard with me, and we realized that's an aspiration. That's not value. So I think one of the most important things is to really look at words like family and balance and spirituality and fun and connection and creativity and inspiration, all these different words that are core values, and ask yourself, what am I. Not just what do I want to be.

Yeah, you know what, I have never heard anyone say it like that. That is really, really great. So you know, when let's say building a team or let's say you're interviewing right now because you've got the great resignation, it's the thing that business owners are struggling with the most is finding people. So how do you identify a candidate and knowing that they are aligning with the values we always say, you know, hire towards your core values. Well, how do you really know? Yeah, in the interview process that they.

Do align, it's easy to know when somebody's core value is being violated if you find out why they weren't happy about something. Most of the times it's the what or the how. So if somebody leaves a job, either what they were doing wasn't a match, meaning their skill set wasn't being used and they were pushing a river, being in a different skill set and burning out, or a core value is being violated, meaning maybe they value integrity and they left their company because they had to sell something they didn't believe in and that was violating for them. So I think it's really important to understand what doesn't work for people in the workplace place because usually that's interesting work face workplace because usually it's really indicative of what value was trespassed.

Yeah, that's a good point. Really. I mean look at past behavior and how they felt. But they did. That's a really good point. So thank you. Now in your TEDx talk you spoke of the danger of. So I'm just kind of switching gears here. Striving for perfection through obtaining, you know, useless degrees, putting five year plans together. What's the difference between. Well, first of all, why is that an issue, you know, continuing to get the degrees and not actually maybe putting it into action or over planning. Why is that an issue?

Yeah, it's two separate things, right. Like I think getting to too many or just continuing to get degrees is an opportunity cost. We're in a time where, you know, experience is experience and a degree can't make up for that. So even if you need a degree, I would say I'm very wary of getting an advanced degree unless you know very clearly how it's going to help your career otherwise wise. I see it usually as an opportunity cost unless you have the finances to bankroll yourself through that, which by all means do it. I love being a student. And then there was another question you had asked me. What was it? It was about remind Me?

Yeah. So the degrees, but then also the five having, you know, over planning.

Over planning, Right. I think the problem with over planning is that who we are evolves. And, you know, we are calibrating with the universe at all times in deciding who we are. And so I think that your career is experimental, and we learn through experimenting. It's not like your mom sent you to preschool and told you that the first crush you have in school is the kid you should marry. Right. But that's what we're doing in our career. We're like, the first thing you choose, you better build it. And so I think it's really important that people give themselves a permission slip to be in the experiment. And if you won't, that's a life choice that I think will translate into some heartache, because the reality is that unless you're willing to experiment, you're not going to very easily figure out what you want and who you truly are. And so I would say over planning makes you hold your career too tightly. And when you hold your career too tightly, you know, you're not holding space for change and for being nimble.

Wow. This is really. You know, I love the way that you are really sharing these ideas. This perspective I haven't heard before. And so, you know, before we wrap up today, I've got another question I want to ask you. But how do people reach you? How do people learn more about you? Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you for asking. My book is on Amazon or everywhere books are sold. U turn. Y O. U turn. It's two words. Get unstuck. Discover your direction. Design your dream career. I'm on Instagram. You can send me a message there, and I would love to hear from you and what you thought of the episode.

Yeah. Fantastic. And is there anything that you would like to share with our listeners today that we haven't covered?

You know, I have a lot of solo episodes on my show, the U Turn Podcast, just about finding yourself. So if this really spoke to you, check it out. Look at the individual solo episodes. There's a lot of me talking about this, and that's my biggest goal, is to help you really get to know yourself. Because I think that when people know themselves, they're a lot happier and the world needs more happy people.

I agree 1000%. Okay. I have one more question for you, just because, you know, as our business owners that are listening here, and oftentimes though, you know, they're going along, they're doing pretty well, but then they're. They kind of hit a Wall. They feel stuck in their business. They're working harder than ever, but they're not getting the results they want. What advice would you give to help them to reach that next level or just to get unstuck?

Yeah, well, there's two. Things. Like, number one, if you're not getting the results you want, it's tempting to make it mean that you're on the wrong path. And sometimes that's true, sometimes that's not. So I think it's important to take the emotion out of it as much as you can and really take a look at it and say, am I not getting the results that I want? Because I'm operating out of my core skillset. I'm operating in an area that I don't believe in or I don't want to be in, or am I stuck? And I would say, sometimes you need space. Sometimes you need to slow down to actually speed up. So I would encourage people to pay attention to if they're making it mean something about themselves, if it's actually true, and then to give them some. Some time to slow down and get curious. Like, I love the question from Mary Morrissey. She says, what can I do from where I am now with what I have now to reach? And then she puts the goal down. And I find that to be an incredible question because if you give yourself permission to just write right all your possible things you could do, you become quite resourceful.

Yeah, that's powerful. I love Mary. She's actually a friend of mine. She's wonderful lady.

She's great. Yeah.

Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much, Ashley, for being on Scale It Method. I'm sure those of you are listening have absolutely loved this episode. I've loved interviewing you. I've learned a ton.

Thank you.

And so, you know, we love having you listeners here today. And if you are interested in learning more about scaling, we absolutely offer you to join us on our complimentary live stream so that we can help you lay out a plan to scale your company. Go to scalemasterclass.com until next time. We can't wait to see you on the Scale it method. All right, bye, everybody.