The Guerrilla Marketing Genius Behind One of California's Most Beloved Brands | Wing Lam

Just because I asked. So it was literally like $2,000, which today it was a huge amount of money to take a full-page ad in the newspaper. And I'm like, what am I going to do with this? And I went to Billabong and goes, hey, can we use one of your surfers? And just to use that photo alone would have been $2,000. And they said, well, Wayne, because you do our events, you can use the surfer. So that was the first battle, getting to use the photo rights without paying $2,000. So that was like step one. Then step two was like, can we mention that we work with you? And they said, how about you become our official restaurant? And I'm like, you're kidding me, right? They go, no, no, no. And at the time, Billabong in 1989, by all standards, was like the number 2 brand in the surf world. Number 2. So guess what I do next? I go to Quiksilver, which at the time was number one. I go, hey Danny, I'm gonna be Billabong's official restaurant. They're like, are you out of your mind? You can be ours too. So the first year we ran only one ad, we had 7 little logos. The following year we did exactly the same ad, I had over 100 logos, and we became the official restaurant for the surf and sports industry just because I asked, right? So this is the other part of what you guys do is like, ask. The worst that can happen No, sorry, you can't do that. But at the time, nobody, I mean zero, Taco Bell, McDonald's, Hard Rock Cafe, nobody was doing anything surfing, skateboarding, or snowboarding. So I asked and I became the first.

Yeah, amazing. So are you guys asking?

Like, how do you go out on a date? You gotta ask, right? They don't just show up at your doorstep.

I'm Allison Maslan and welcome to the Scale It Method Podcast. If you're a CEO or founder and you're ready to take your company to the next level, while also living a fuller, richer life, you are in the right place. I've built 10 companies over the last 40 years, and I'm here to share the most up-to-the-minute strategies and the biggest needle movers that will truly scale your company. Plus, I'll give you a peek into how we do it over at Pinnacle Global Network, where we help business owners multiply their growth and enjoy the journey along the way. Okay, my Scale It friends, let's Dive in.

Wing Lam is the eldest of 3 founding brothers behind the renowned Wahoo Tacos brand. With over 35 years of experience in the restaurant industry, he has become a familiar face, frequently speaking at global events and guest lecturing for MBA programs at prestigious institutions such as Yale, UCLA, USC. Wing's media presence includes appearance on the ABC hit show, The Secret Millionaire. Do you guys remember that show? A national Merrill Lynch commercial, 2 Food Network shows, Unwrapped and Beach Eats USA. He's also an active supporter of various community initiatives, so many that I would need to be sharing those all day. In 2024, Wing and his brother Mingo Lee and Ed Lee and their parents were inducted in the prestigious Orange County Hall of Fame. Wing has received numerous accolades for his contributions to both business and philanthropy. Along with his brothers, he's been recognized among the 500 Most Influential by the Orange County Business Journal. Wahoo's Fish Taco has also earned honors such as Golden Foodie Award, Best OC Brand by OC Weekly. Help me welcome to the stage Mr. Wing Lam. I love your outfit.

This is how I go to work every day. That's what happens when you own your own business. You can do whatever you want, right?

That's right. That's right. You're a surfer to the core. I guess I should have my questions here. Well, thank you for coming.

Thanks for having me.

And I would just— I got introduced to Wing through Robin Richter because Robin is very involved in the Alzheimer's Yep. Foundation, which you are as well. And then we got to connect, and I just thought, oh my gosh, Wing has so much wisdom to share that I wanted to bring him here today.

Thank you.

So, let's just, a little bit of history here. You grew up in Brazil, And also Nicole on our team is from Brazil, and they were just connecting out there. You moved to California when you were, how old were you?

Almost 14.

Almost 14, right in those awkward teenage years, right?

Yep.

And you were working in your family restaurant, which was a different, wasn't Wahoo's.

Nope.

Total different restaurant, and before you ever thought of building a brand. So how did those early years inspire you to do— to go out on your own?

Well, it wasn't so much going out on my own. You know, as Asian kids, you know, we were basically told to get a real job, right? So doctor, attorney, you know, and I was stuck as the engineer because I already had one in law school. I had another brother going to med school. So I went to Engineering school. The problem is I should have gone to San Jose State, not San Diego State. I'm going to tell you, there is ungodly amount of distractions on the way to the engineering school at San Diego State, i.e., this place called Monty's Hall, right? And I could never make it to class. So I found myself on academic probation, as we know what that is, right? And I had about a 0.01, I think, GPA my first year in school. So that means pretty much all Fs and Ds, right? So anyway, I got kicked out of school.

Perfect for being an entrepreneur.

Yeah, yeah. But I liked being in the fraternity and surfing in Mexico and all that. So I switched over to the business school. Thank God, you know, because in engineering, the numbers are very precise. In business, As long as you can justify your position, you can do whatever you want, right? A lot of risk, a lot of reward. Little risk, little reward, right? So I did pretty good in the finance school and a lot of road trips down to Mexico. And that's basically the inspiration, right? But it wasn't anything like that. I did get a job at Rockwell International on the space shuttle program out of college and on the finance side of the school, right? And it was fun, but I'm going to tell you something. Taking a stack of paper on Monday, by Friday it'd be on this side of the desk. By Monday, there'd be another stack. You follow me? It was like Groundhog's Day, right? It was like, oh my God, this is what I'm going to do for the next 30-some years. And back then, guys were there in my section, and guys had been there 25, 30 years. And I'm like, there's no way I can do this, right?

Yeah.

So my kid brother Ed was getting out of school around the same time. We were talking. And I said, you know, corporate America, great idea, but maybe we should do something that we know how to do. And he goes, you're getting ready to get out of school. And I'm like, what do we want to do? He goes, well, we know how to do food because our parents have restaurants all over the world. And he said, what's the one thing everybody talks about? Having a place to hang out, After surfing, or before or after. And I said, you guys used to come down and visit me at San Diego State as your big brother. We go down to Mexico and have tacos. So that's where the inspiration came from. It was like, hey, corporate America, nothing against it, but it wasn't that much fun.

Surfing and tacos was way more fun.

Way more fun. And you get to work like this, not in a suit and tie like half of you guys are wearing.

So it's like— Everyone's going to come in t-shirts and shorts next time. Surfing. So, so you were surfing.

Yep.

You got really into this, and it's a whole culture.

Yes.

Like surfing. So for those of you that are on the East Coast, like California surfing is like, it is a culture. It has its own language, the whole thing. And that was a big part of your life. When did you realize that the very thing that you loved, which also kind of made you different, a little bit in those teenage years, could actually become a strategic advantage in business? And I ask this question, 'cause think about the things that you do, or some passions that you have, how that might separate you in what you do in your own brand.

Well, the interesting thing is, obviously you can tell, I am 100% Chinese, but I grew up in Brazil. So I don't know, and I don't think like I'm Chinese. I am Brazilian. I still, after 55 years of being in America, I still travel under Brazilian passport, which is crazy. I have a green card from 1975 and a passport. Drives my wife and everybody else crazy when you got to come back into this country, okay? So it's a very difficult thing to travel with a green card that never expires. So the picture's from 1975, and you just got to look at the officer's face. Because he's looking for the expiration date. He can't find it. So he doesn't know what to do with it. He's got to call a supervisor. But so the first part of like being in America for probably the first 10, 15 years, I did my very best to fit in. I had the short hair. I joined a fraternity. I looked like you opened the Lands' End catalog, all these preppy magazines. I looked like I just walked out of that magazine, right? Well, then when I started our company, I'm like, I don't care because let me embrace the culture. So today it's okay to be different, right? So look around here, right? But in Newport Beach in the '70s, I was pretty much one of 3 Asian kids in my high school. So I'm like, I'm already different than the other 1,500 kids. Let me try to fit in as much as I can. And I'm like, screw it. I'm going to be different. I'm just going to be as different as I humanly can, because then you stand out. The whole thing about business, people go to businesses where they stand out above the rest, so whatever that means, right? So I'm like, one, we're not Mexican, so we're going to drive everybody crazy. We're going to have 3 Asian kids from Brazil opening a fish taco stand. People thought, you are absolutely insane. You're going to fail for sure.

And here you are, still going.

Yes.

Still going. Now, I love this story of the John Wayne story. So John Wayne literally ate at your parents' restaurant, right? And that kind of where things started changing. Can you just tell a little bit about that? And the point is that the importance of credibility and visibility in business?

So there's moments in time where you got to seize the opportunity, right? So when my father opened his Chinese restaurant on Balboa Island, Newport Beach, it's still there after 55 years, right? It's still there. The funny part is, you know, everybody says, well, can't be authentic. If you want to eat authentic Chinese food, you got to go to Chinatown, not in Newport Beach. So the restaurant sat there for about maybe a year or two at about 20% occupancy. They were struggling. Luckily, the rest of us were in Brazil. We would subsidize my dad here. And one day, a publicist, a Jewish publicist named Gloria Ziegner, who has since passed away, decided— because Jewish people love Chinese food— they wanted to have a birthday party for her husband at my dad's restaurant. This is true. And would my dad shut it down? And my dad goes, why not? Because it's empty anyway, right? So the whole thing was a birthday party for her husband. And she had one client at the time who's still alive, Pilar Wayne, John Wayne's wife. So she asked her client to say, hey, would it be cool if John Wayne would come in and wish my husband happy birthday? That's the real story. The myth that came out of that, my father hosted a birthday party for John Wayne. So think about that for a second. The restaurant went overnight from being 20% occupancy to an hour to an hour and a half wait to get a table overnight. So my dad goes, I need free labor. Kids, got your— you got to come up to California. Yeah.

And that's what we did.

He needed free labor.

Yeah. And so, I mean, think about that in your own businesses too. It is that credibility factor.

Yep.

How can you think about that for a minute? How can you incorporate that into your own business, right? I mean, that is why people have creators and things like that on social media touting their products. There's so many ways to do this, but are you leaning into that, right? And you are a pro at relationship building.

Yeah.

That's really how you spend a lot of your time.

Yep.

Right?

And so it comes naturally to you, and you invested in that early, in, like, from the get-go in your business. and relationships, partnerships, without really knowing what the ROI would be.

That's right.

In fact, you probably didn't even go into it going, what is the ROI going to be? We talk a lot about strategic partnerships here. Share a couple stories with us, and then, you know, just what are your thoughts on how to really tap into relationship to grow the business?

So the idea is in college they taught this term called synergy, right? When 2 people come together, the sum of it is bigger than, you know, 1 plus 1 is now 3, right? So how does that apply to us? So if you're trying to advertise, we're all here in the same, in one version or another, trying to get more customers, right? So I can go spend $10,000 trying to get customers, but if there are 2 of us together at $5,000 each, and say you're a dentist and I'm making tacos, or say you're a landscaper, whatever they— complementary business may be, we're basically trying to get to the same place, right? Get more customers. So if 2 people come together, you just cut your expenses in half. If 3 people come together— and in my world, I was trying to get surfers, right? So what I did, literally, I started asking the surf companies. And you got to laugh a little bit. The word hospitality, they all looked at me and goes, what are you talking about? If you don't bring your own food to the surf event, you're going to starve because there's nothing to eat here. And on occasion, there'd be a dad cooking, but what would happen when his kid was surfing? He'd turn around and be looking at the waves while the hamburgers were up in smoke. So there was no food. So I came in and I said, how about I do this for you guys? Because I was looking for customers. So sampling at the beach was an easy way for me to get customers because if they would eat something, they're like, wow, this is really good. And when you're starving to death, let me tell you, everything tastes delicious, right? So it was really easy, but they had no budget. And my brother goes, it's a great idea, but we can't throw away $1,000 worth of food to feed, you know, 100 kids. But all these surf brands had what they call a promotional budget. I figured that out. So I said, okay, so how about we barter? And pretty much everything I have on is made by somebody I know, right? So I haven't bought a pair of t-shirts, shorts, sunglasses, goggles, snowboard, skateboard, surfboard. You can go through the whole list of all the toys in action sports. Somebody I know makes it. Because the first thing I did for them is like, let me come to your skateboard event. And they're like, we don't have a budget. He goes, I don't care. I'll do it. I'll take care of all the kids, and then I'll come to your warehouse later and I'll get some stuff.

Yeah.

So I would turn around, give my meat guy, here's a couple of skateboards. I would take my beer guy, here's a couple of t-shirts. So we all barter, right? So people today look at me and goes, how did you know that? I goes, I didn't. I just went and goes, do you have $1,000? They look, nope, we don't. So if you want to do this, you got to give it to us. And I turned around and I goes, well, can I get some t-shirts? And they're like, sure, what are you gonna do with 100 t-shirts? I got vendors, I got employees.

Yeah, amazing. And you did it also too with ads, didn't you, as well, with different ads and getting different logos from like Billabong and all of these major surf brands?

So when the first ads came out, the first summer we were open, it was the OP Pro, which is now the US Open of Surfing. Surfing. So it was literally like $2,000, which today it was a huge amount of money to take a full-page ad in the newspaper. And I'm like, what am I going to do with this? And I went to Billabong and goes, hey, can we use one of your surfers? And just to use that photo alone would have been $2,000. And they said, well, Wayne, because you do our events, you can use the surfer. So that was the first battle, getting to use the photo rights without paying $2,000. So that was like step 1. Then step 2 was like, can we mention that we work with you? And they said, how about you become our official restaurant? And I'm like, you're kidding me, right? They go, no, no, no, we want you to. And at the time, Billabong in 1989, by all standards, was like the number 2 brand in the surf world. Number 2. So guess what I do next? I go to Quiksilver, which at the time was number 1. He goes, hey, Danny, I'm going to be Billabong's official restaurant. They're like, are you out of your mind? You can be ours too. So the first year we ran only one ad, we had 7 little logos. The following year, we did exactly the same ad. Uh-oh. I don't know if I'm—

No, you're good.

Okay, I'm good. I had over 100 logos, and we became the official restaurant for the surf and sports industry. Just because I asked, right? So this is the other part of what you guys do is like, ask. The worst that can happen? No, sorry, you can't do that. But at the time, nobody, I mean, zero, Taco Bell, McDonald's, Hard Rock Cafe, nobody was doing anything surfing, skateboarding, and snowboarding. So I asked and I became the first.

Yeah, amazing. So are you guys asking?

Like, how do you go out on a date? You gotta ask, right? They don't just show up at your doorstep. Oh, here's a hot-looking guy or girl, 'cause you thought of it. You gotta ask. So guess what? You gotta have balls. Right? 'Cause if you don't ask, what's the worst?

Exactly, exactly. So the surfers and the skaters, the skier, you know, snowboarders, they became really your customers.

Yep.

So you tapped into that. It became part of your world, and you didn't advertise to them, though. You, like, became part of their culture. What do you think it takes for a—

to build a brand that people feel emotionally So in my case, right, if you surf, Wahoo's. If you skateboard, Wahoo's. It became part of the routine, right? So think about whatever business you're in. Where are your customers? Are they doing yoga? Are they doing— whatever they're doing, your service, your company, whatever becomes the next before and after they do it, right? So the action sports industry is very small. So somewhere about 5 years into this crazy business of mine, I figured out that Orange County is the mecca of super sports agents. So accidentally, I became friends with Lee Steinberg, Jerry Maguire. Pretty much like the Super Bowl quarterback, Sam Darnold, is represented by one of Lee's former partners. I can go through the list of all the last 20 quarterbacks in the last 30 years from USC, they're represented by one of my 3 friends, which is crazy. So all of a sudden, the good guys, right, they give back. And who do they call? Because I'm the only guy that does events. Way before there was cause marketing, event marketing, before any of this existed, I was already doing it. I had a street team. I knew how to guerrilla market. I knew how to do all that. Why? Because it was either you pay $100 grand to put your logo all over the place, Or you figure out how to sneak in the back door. So I figured out how to sneak in the back door legally, right? And I've never gotten in trouble. I've had plenty of guys tell me, oh, you're not supposed to do that. And I'm like, oh, sorry, right? And apologize and then figure out how to do it from a different name, right? So always ask for forgiveness, right? But again, you're not going to get a date until you ask, right? So I always thought, what's the worst that can happen? Right? So all the athletes that I took care of then became the guys that run the events today. And more important, for up until 3 years ago, I always have to come in through the side door to the X Games because I knew all the athletes, right? I do all the food for all the athletes. Fast forward, Lee Steinborg's former business partner, Jeff Moorad, buys the X Games. Now I walk in the front door and nobody can say a word to me. Because they're like, Wing's friends with the owner, right? So I used to sneak into all these events. Now I just walk in, they're like, he's part of the deal, right? But again, I paid my dues, and that's the whole key. You just got to keep doing what you can because trust me, writing checks to be at these events is not a cheap date. I mean, the minimum to be in a stadium, all these places, is a quarter of a million bucks. So think about on a 10% margin how much business you got to sell to generate the quarter of a million? $2.5 million. In most cases, you know, then you got to pay this, you got to pay that, right? So in the end, it's negative, negative. So why do brands do signage in stadiums and all that? Because somebody in their family was like, hey, it'd be fun to go to a Padres game. Absolutely. So part of the sponsorship, there's tickets, there's appearances, there's all this other stuff. But if you don't have millions and millions, how do you do it? You gotta get creative, so.

Call Wing, that's what you do. So this is so good. I hope your wheels are turning and thinking about different ideas to implement this. Now you built Wahoos with your brothers and, and 2 brothers, so it's the 3 of you, right?

Yep.

And so how many of you have, are working with your family in some way? Raise your hand. It's hard to see with the lights, so I need high hands. Okay, a lot of you. Okay, how many of you, it's husband and wife?

Oh, you got a few of them.

And how many of you siblings?

Oh yeah.

Okay, okay, great. How many of you have their kids? Your kids?

Ooh, yeah, second generation.

Okay, so with all of that can come some conflict.

Always.

Yeah. And because you got, you know, all the, just the family stuff that we grew up with and, you know, you've got all that whole dynamic going. How have you weathered through all that? Because you guys have been in business for how many years now?

38.

30 years.

And still going strong. So what's some advice that you can give some of the family?

Just think of it this way, right? It's a band. Think of all the Rolling Stones and the bands that have survived and the ones that didn't. Don't let your ego get in the way because in a band there's going to be a lead singer, a bass, a guitar, and a drummer, right? So everybody wants to be the lead singer. That's why they end up splitting up, right? The Eagles, how good were they when they split up? There were a few hits, but were they better when they were together? The answer is yes, right? The Beatles, we miss them, right? They were probably the greatest, and then independently, I think McCartney is the only one that's done okay, right? But not as good as they were together, right? So I joke with my brothers, I'm okay if they want me to be the drummer. I'm okay if they want me to be the bass player. I just happen to be the one that goes to all the events, so I'm very forward-facing to the consumer. So when people think of Wahoos, they think of me, right? And I always have to remind them. And my kid brother Ed forever used to hate the idea of being Wing's brother. It's not the same as being Wing, and I guarantee you. So, but I make— I go out of my way to do things for my brothers because I just like, I hate being, you know, the face, but it comes with it, right? So to all of you guys that have brothers, sisters, you know, the family, it's okay, right? Because guess what? Me being the front, I always have to open all the doors. I'm always the one with the big balls asking. They can just sit back there and just walk right behind me. They don't have to do the asking. I get to— I mean, I get a lot of pies, but I get a lot of cakes, right? So that's what I do. So I don't mind being that, but you're going to figure it out. But we all make exactly the same money. So if I'm in a band, why do I care if I'm not singing? I'm playing the guitar or the bongos. I'm getting the same check, less work. I'd be very, very happy, right? So amongst all my partnerships with all my friends and other brands, I'm like, you want to be on stage? Be my guest. It's just less work for me, right? So just look at that. Embrace the good, embrace the bad, right? But to me, it's like, do I care? Yes, it's nice that people recognize me. Do I also have less privacy? Like my kid brothers, they can walk anywhere. Hardly anybody bothers them, right? I go anywhere, my wife goes, oh my God, do you want to take another picture with you? I'm like, that's part of the give and the get, right? So I don't mind. But then when my wife gets a reservation to a restaurant that nobody else can get, she goes, well, it works, right? So you got to take both, right?

I love it. I love it. I like that idea of thinking as a band and everybody has their own instruments coming together.

Yeah. So we try— I like all the stuff with my kid brother Mingo. It's legal, accounting, all the stuff. I stay out of the way. I don't go in there and say, hey, I just met another banker. You should meet him. I'm like, no, that's my brother's domain. Here's his number. You call him. If you can go get a meeting with him, it's all you. But I don't influence because I don't want to be that guy telling my kid brother what to do. And vice versa. You want to do an event? You got to talk to me because I'm the one that's going to show up. And if it's not going to be fun, I don't want to go do it either, right? So we try to stay in each other's domain Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that, that you're staying in your own lane. My stepfather, who has long passed away, he and his business partner were in the jewelry business, and they were partners for 40 years. And he used to tell— he told me that the reason it was successful is that they stayed in their lanes, and they totally trusted and respected one another. And I think that's so important. Now you have, how many locations do you have?

We lost about 2 dozen during COVID We're down to about 42 locations now.

42 locations. And that's still a lot of locations.

It's a lot of work. Yeah.

It's a, yeah. So how do you, because you franchise and we'll talk about that in a minute, but we have so many of our clients here who are scaling, right? And so it gets to, to a point where the business grows well beyond us. And so when you go into a Wahoo's and you, there are certain things that, you know, this has to happen when somebody walks in. This is the type of food they're served. This is the type of experience, all of that.

What were some of the non-negotiables for you as the company Well, the biggest thing is you want the experience to be the same. But here's the dilemma with our business, right? If you're in the restaurant industry, after about 5 locations, it financially makes sense for you to centralize the kitchen. But for me, it became a non-negotiable point because I like to, you know, enjoy what I eat. And the issues with Centralizing kitchens, which is pretty much the whole country, right, that has any more than 5 locations, is the product needs to be stabilized to get from point A to point B. It's a fancy word for preservatives, right? So to you guys, I mean, we are, I think at least 90% of what we do, what we eat. The other part is exercising, right? So it doesn't matter how much I surf, run, and do all that, if I'm eating crappy food, I'm just never going to get where I want to get. I'm going to be 65 this summer. I'd like to be able to surf and do the things. I mean, tomorrow I'll be going snowboarding with my 10-year-old. I enjoy doing these things as though I'm 30 years old. That's one of the things. In order for us to be able to maintain the quality, we spend an awful lot amount of time going over procedures, communicating to everybody to say, by the way, There's the right amount of water, the right amount of spices. So all the recipes, it's constantly, you know, we got to go over that. Because everything, you know, you can do it in one batch, but if you're the last person to eat that batch, you're like, oh my God, this is terrible. So the freshness, everything has to be this constant. So I remind our team, hey, you're going to eat this food too at some part during the day. Do you want to eat the leftovers or do you want something fresh, right? So our goal is to kind of keep the standard, which is the hardest part to do in our business, right? So we got the food part and also what I call the vibe, the atmosphere. We want people to really enjoy coming to see us. And, you know, the old Cheers where everybody knows your name. I mean, literally when I was at the restaurant, I made a point to know everything about your order, but your family and everything. So I could literally ask you, hey, how's your daughter doing playing softball? this year. And people look at me and go, why do you care? Because, well, I don't want to have a transaction. I want my customer to be a friend, right? And that's what we want. We want to create this family. And as you say, doing business with family and friends is way easier than doing it with just transactions, right? Because at the end of the day, if they don't like you, they can literally go to another bank or another dentist, right? It's really easy. They can go to another taco shop. But the fact that we treat them as friends allows them to go, wow, I, I can go to A or B, but I'd rather go to Wahoo's where they know my name.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think that applies to everybody here, right, with your customers and that type of customer service where you're obviously, we know you all care about your customers, but going that deeper level and really getting to know them as people. And then people don't want to leave.

Nope.

Right? Because it feels like an extension of their home.

Yep.

So speaking of your locations, in the restaurant business can be difficult with turnover and so forth. And so in most companies, and you can tell me how this is for you, but the strongest team members are the ones that stay. Stay aligned to the brand.

Yep.

What are some things you've learned along the way with hiring that's really helped you? Or what have you found that the most important qualities from when you're looking for those people, whether they're in the restaurant or they're on your leadership team, and so that can help some of us out here?

The most important thing is we want to be around happy people. Nobody wants to hang out with a Debbie Downer, right? So think of it from us, because people come in whether they're having a good day or a bad day. Our job is to lift them up. If you're a Debbie Downer, I can guarantee you're not going to lift anybody up. So we can teach them the cooking skills.

Or a Donald Downer.

Yeah.

So we can teach them all the other skills. We can't teach them to be nice. So that's the most important skill to us. It's like, you gotta be a nice person.

Yeah, yeah, and be, yeah, definitely be generous. I just, the negativity can become like a disease in your business.

Absolutely.

And grow so quickly. How many of you have held onto somebody in your company that was really negative, but you felt like you couldn't let them go? because they held on to such an important position.

Yeah.

Right. Can I just tell you, that's a story you're telling yourself, and it's not true. Okay? Just let that sink in for a little bit. Because I've been there, and I know what that feels like, and you kind of feel handcuffed to the situation. But I'm telling you, if you make that move for that change, that right person will come in really quickly, and you'll be saying to yourself, I can't believe I didn't do this a long time ago. Because like you said, Wayne, life's too short not to be around happy people.

Yep.

Yeah.

So we try. I mean, literally, it's so easy because the bad apple literally brings everybody down. And the same thing is like, you know, early on, I had this great idea that I wanted to share the journey with all my friends from high school and college. So between me and my brothers, we hired a lot of friends. Same thing. So much fun to want to hang out with them socially, but they felt like coming to work for us is like, I can kick my feet up because I'm friends with the boss. So that instantly did not work. So hiring them was awesome, firing them was ugly, but we did. All of us, all 3 brothers, we all lost friends along the way because They were basically very, very entitled when they came to work for us. Looking back, they all wished that they would have stuck around and actually worked because they could have probably been partners with us by now.

Amazing. Any of you can relate? Anyone here can relate to what he just shared here? Yeah. Let's just talk a second about franchising because we do have a— raise your hand if— well, I know here we have our beautiful Faizun that helps people with franchising. I know David is here, is franchising his martial arts locations, which we're excited about. Who else here is franchising or considering even franchising? We've got some here, some other hands coming up. Is there anything that you can share from your lessons along the way? What is it? What should they know? What would help them? To be more successful in the franchising?

So again, I like to bring it close to the relationship world because we've all been there, right? So when you're dating somebody, they'll tell you anything that you want to hear. And I'll use surfing as a perfect example. I can't tell you how many of my friends would tell their girlfriends at the time, they go, by the way, there's this term called dawn patrol. It means we want to be the first guys out to see the sunrise. And depending on the time of the year, it could be 5 o'clock, it could be 6 o'clock. Like right now, it's about 6 o'clock, right? So that's what it means. When you're dating, it goes, hey honey, by the way, I get up at 6 o'clock to go surfing. As soon as you get married, they're like, what are you doing? Well, you knew I like to go surf at 6 o'clock. Oh no, you're disturbing my sleep. So all my friends that end up getting divorced Because they're like, I can't believe my wife lied to me about this. And this goes both ways, okay? So in franchising, I can tell without a hesitation, we've lost a few, and I'm not proud of them because it's $1 million to build a store from the ground up, okay? New York City, Houston, I can go down the list of stores that closed for one reason. When we came And we— I spend an ungodly amount of time telling people, this is a lot of work. We make food in our restaurants. It doesn't come in a bag. It doesn't come frozen. We make it from scratch. And they all looked at me and goes, great, great. I got it. I got it. I got it. Like surfing, right? As soon as we open, the numbers are going through the roof. They're like, oh my God, this is so amazing. This is the best ever. 6 months into it, they're like, I think I'm going to fire the chef.

Oh, no.

Or the kitchen manager or the kitchen supervisor and get an hourly gig because how hard can this be? And I'm like, you're going to be out of business in 6 months because that kid we didn't train, he doesn't know the recipes, and you're going to fail. And they're like, no, because I already had these other franchises. And I can tell you most of them, McDonald's, there's really nothing to make there. Everything comes ready to go. You just got to put it in the fryer or grill.

Right.

They're like, we can do this. 6 months later, they're out of business. And I'm like, did you not listen to what I told you for 2 years before you opened the store? And then, and they goes, you were right. I don't want to be right. I don't want to have a store out of business because now you just lost a million dollars. So be careful of what they tell you and what they're actually going to do, because if it's your baby I don't want to see anybody lose $1 million. But to see them, like the Midtown New York, 6 months in, they're on pace to do double of any store we had in California. 6 months later, out of business. They fired the kitchen manager, kitchen supervisor. I'm like, what are you going to do? Hourly, I can do the same thing. I'm like, no, he can't, because we make food. So whatever the thing is that you're selling, if it's easy, then anybody can do it. Yes. And that's okay. Right? But if you have a specific skill set that you need them to learn, make sure that there's always somebody on site that can do it. Right? Yeah. Because it's a recipe for disaster.

Right. Yeah. I mean, you want to honor your word and actually sell what you say you're selling.

Yeah.

Right? That's our number one value. So you all got that, right? It's having the right team in place, and we talk about that a lot. Let's see, I wanna get into a little bit of where you spend most of your time. And when Wing and I talked, I told him that it was something that we had been wanting to do for some time, was to give a percentage of our membership, what we receive in membership, to help foster kids that were aging out of the system. And I was telling you how I was so moved and saddened by the statistics of foster kids when they're aging out of the system, many states are 18 years old, some of them are 21. I think California's 21, but most states are 18. Like, boom, they're cut off, and all they've known is the foster system. They have not had anyone show them opportunities, show them a new way, and half of them go to prison or become homeless. There's not a real high percentage. Of course there are, and some of them do well, but it's a very, very small percentage. And I felt like, God, what could we do for these kids? How could we make an impact? And so I literally, my husband and I had been reaching out to foster organization after foster organization for 2 years, and we could not get people to call us back. Was that crazy?

Yeah.

And I'm like, boy, something is a mess here. And so when I talked to Wing, who's super connected, and you ended up connecting me with the Samueli Academy, who is in Irvine. Has anyone ever heard of the Samueli Academy? It is the most amazing school. It is for foster kids. They have 800 kids there, and the program is like nothing you've ever seen. I'll show you the video, not this weekend, but at another time. You will be so incredibly moved what they're doing for these kids. So we are now aligned with Samueli Academy because of Wing. He got us in there. We are now working with the school.

Yeah.

The mentors are going to be there teaching, and we're going to be very involved with these kids and also helping to fund their program. And so part of your membership is going to help these So, so good on you. And so let's just talk a little bit about, because you just, you do this all the time. You're constantly finding ways to help all kinds of different organizations.

So what happened is back when we first started, it was just the easiest. Somebody, customer would come in and say, hey, my daughter, my mom, somebody in the family had something, and can you help out? And I goes, of course. But once I started, like, going to the meetings and finding out what they were doing, I'd be like, well, this is kind of like not being efficient. Because nonprofits need more money to find a cure, right? And they need more people to buy seats at their gala, whatever it is that they're selling. They need awareness and they need money. But the way they were going about it was, I call it, very backwards, right? So my first golf tournament that I was involved with, right, they came to me and said, hey, would you put your tee sign at the tee box and donate $500? And I'm like, sounds like very easy to do, but I'm like, what is that going to do for me? What do I get out of it? Because I'm about, I want to feel something. And putting that little tee sign didn't, to me, didn't feel like anything. So I turn around and goes, Can I look at what you do at the golf tournament? So I went through my finance background and I went through their expense account, right? And they spend X on this, X on that, and all this. I'm like, okay, I can cover the lunch, I can get the beverage from my beer company, and I can get you some auction items for your thing. You can now make to the bottom line by me taking care of 2 or 3 line items, $5,000.

Wow.

Do you still want me to give you $500? Would you rather have $5,000? And they looked at me and goes, we'd rather have the $5,000. So that's how I got started. I would look at it and say, well, this is what you're doing. Wouldn't it be more efficient, right? And the thing that kind of blew everything open for me, and again, timing is everything, right? The Angels have only won one World Series back, I think, in 2002 or '03, whatever, right? So 6 months before they win the World Series, a foster program came to me and goes, would you like to be the title sponsor to our tournament? I'm like, sure. So there's my logo, right? So on one side is, you know, on the postcard is Wahoo's Fish Taco presents. On the backside, the Tim Salmon Golf Tournament. They just won the World Series. Tim is like the hero. And I'm like, oh my God, I thought I was helping a foster. He goes, yes, Laurel's House's biggest manufacturer is Tim Salmon. So I now got to run to the committee meeting and figure out what they're doing because I can't put my name on this thing. I'm not just donating lunches. I'm on the committee now. And I go in there and I look at their whole program. I'm like, no, we're going to revamp this whole thing. We're going to do this. And they all looked at me and goes, you're new to our committee. I know how to do this because I've done hundreds of golf tournaments before. 3 months in, we take the tournament and we triple their bottom line, right? Tim Salmon introduces me when I first meet him for the first time at the golf tournament, and he gets there in front of everybody, goes, I'd like you guys to meet my new best friend. I ran that tournament for 20 years, right? Because I took a business approach to what they were doing. And just said, no, this is not right because I can literally pimp your name out and we can raise a lot of money. I know everybody here who's an Angels fan that would love to donate money to get a picture with you. And Tim looked at me and goes, you're out of your mind. I goes, the numbers speak for themselves, right? So next month during spring training, Brian and I, who's back there, my buddy here, right? We're staying at Tim's house during spring training to do another event while we're there. We don't have to get a hotel. We don't have to get anything. Because Tim and I have been friends for over 25 years now, right? And every time we talk about something, Tim goes, you're family, right? I wasn't this guy, oh my God, there's a World Series guy with a ring. It was just, how can I help you?

And you've done— but you've done that for years now. And it really has raised awareness of Wahoo Tacos. You're on the news all the time. You're speaking. And so you've really made philanthropy something that is extremely purposeful, extremely impactful, and it's also grown the business.

Oh, yes.

So how can these incredible CEOs, entrepreneurs here tie into philanthropy and make a difference when some of them are like, I would love to do that, But I don't necessarily have the cash to do that.

You have resources. So I very seldom have to write checks to these charities, but I can make more money by the network. And how we met with the Alzheimer's Association. So back when Jim was just running Alzheimer's National, not just Orange County, they got a huge grant for PR. It was basically, hey, we got to get on the news, newspaper, all this stuff. They could not get on TV to promote their wok. And at the time, this is, I don't know, about 15 years ago, we had just started selling salmon in our restaurant. So I looked at Jim and goes, you know, eating salmon has been known to help offset the early onset of Alzheimer's. And he looked at me and goes, so what are you saying? He goes, let me make a couple of calls. So I called KTLA and goes, hey, I just got a new product that I'm talking about. But I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about Alzheimer's Association, how it helps them. And they're like, Wayne, come by next week. So they had this huge pile of money they couldn't get on the news. I wore the End ALS, the hashtag and all that. So I became the poster child for the Alzheimer's Association because I could get on TV to talk about salmon and the early onset of Alzheimer's.

So there's always a way, right? It's always just kind coming up with that angle that leads, that leans into that charity. How many of you are already actively supporting charities or bringing that into your business for some way? How many of you want to do more of that?

Yeah.

Because I think there is a point, right? We spend years building our business and you make such an impact with your employees and your customers. But how can we extend that and make a difference to the world? I mean, nobody's coming up with better ideas than the people in this room right now. And I mean, just the ripple effect of giving back is so good.

Yeah, and just so we all are clear, it's not for the notoriety, it's not for any of it. It's for the gratitude I get, right? Because you can't not buy gratitude at a store. I can tell you that right now. I don't care how much money you got. Gratitude comes from the heart, right? So when you get that, the feeling is unbelievable. So that's the deal.

That's what it's all about. In fact, that's what your socks are. What— tell them about your socks.

Okay, so during COVID I used to wear the striped ones. I've worn them all out because I've been wearing them forever, right? So I now wear the American Red Sock. the American Red Cross ones, right, for the blood drives we've done. And next month we'll be approaching our 200th that we've done since COVID Okay? So when it started, everything stalled, all the charity, everything stopped. So my buddy Charles was in charge of the capital campaign for the Ronald McDonald House in Orange County. They're going to double in size. So when everything stopped, they were about $3 million short. They needed something related to awareness. People needed to know that we don't have the $13 million, only got about $10 million, right? So he came up with this idea. The problem is, imagine if all you guys were wearing striped socks, nobody would see it because you guys all have pants on, right? I'm the only CEO in Orange County that wears shorts. So I said, give me a pair. So the running joke would be, if you made fun of my socks, you owe me $500. I would shake people down. I got on the news, I got on the magazines, everywhere. So within 2 years, we finished raising $3 million. So I would win every single day. Oh my gosh, is that amazing? Yeah.

I love it. I love it. And I know you care so deeply, and I can feel that. And so this has been so amazing, Wing. I would love to just end this with speaking to the amazing leaders in the room. They just got done before this talking about their vision and the big leaps that they want to take. Do you have any advice for them?

Just have a little bit of faith, right? Things happen for a reason, right? It's not always going to work out the best way. You know, there are days I'm like, you got to be kidding me, right? But then there's days I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. So having a little bit of faith, whatever that means to you guys, right? And do what feels right. Because it's the right thing to do, not because you're going to get a single customer out of it, a single anything, just because you can make a difference in somebody's life, somebody's— whatever that means, right? You can maybe, like that paying forward, you'll be amazed of the people you're going to meet. And literally everybody that's ever been on my bucket list, I got to hang out with. Right? Not just meet somebody. That to me is like, that's stupid. I became friends with them, right? So that's what the world can be when you're not selfish, right? When you're out there going, hey, how can I help you guys? Why did I come all the way from Newport Beach to here? Because I'm hoping that you guys will inspire somebody today, 10 years from now, whatever that may be. Right? And then somebody else is going to do it, and that's how we get ahead, right? So it is about paying forward.

That's amazing. And you have some things that you are raising some money for now or raising some awareness. So can we— just tell us so we can share some links and share some love.

So pre-COVID, we would give everything away because we made, relatively speaking, a lot more money than we are right now, right? So since COVID I joke about it. We became the centerpiece because I would go to all these committee meetings and raise money for whatever we were raising for, and somebody would sponsor the program. Somebody would sponsor the centerpiece, but I would always give. So I turn around and goes, okay, I'm not in the position to give, but just cover my costs. So I started this organization called the California Love Drop during COVID and since we've delivered food. food and supplies to every hospital, police, fire, schools. I mean, you name it, we've gone out of our way to support them. All we ask is, hey, we find sponsors to cover some of the costs, but literally to the Samueli Academy, we donated all their computers, all their gaming monitors for their gaming program. We've gone to Boys and Girls Clubs. Anything and everything that's out there, I find partners. And some of my biggest partners that have, I call in-kind product, imagine being able to deliver Vizio 75-inch TVs to your school. Well, William Wang is one of my closest friends, right? ViewSonic for all the gaming monitors, it's another friend. So we find things and we are very resourceful. And when we come into schools or whatever the case may be, and we really bring what they want. We're not bringing you leftover closeout. We're bringing you what do you need to make the program better. So this organization is close to my heart because we literally spend every week doing something for somebody. And people look at me and go, you're crazy. I go, well, part of it is they're going to get some food and I'm not going to make any money, but at least I'm not going to be out of pocket. So I'm able to do that.

Okay. So how can people help or get involved? Is there a link or is there—

Yes. What I'm just saying is through you and I, I don't want the money for somebody else. If you have an organization that you're going to support anyway, and somewhere in that space there might be some food or whatever tangible item may be.

Okay, let's do this because we want to give them— let's— if you have something, just email support@pinnaclegn.com and we will forward that over to Ming.

And we'll take the money and go to the charity you want to support anyway. It's not that I get to pick. I got all my friends telling me, hey, can you go to the Boys and Girls Club? Can you go to the Boy Scouts? We don't care because they need something and we're going to figure out how to provide it.

I love it. Let's give it up for Mr. Wing Lam.

Thank you, guys.

Thanks for tuning in to the Scale It Method podcast. Remember, scaling your business is about more than just growth. It's about creating the life You want to live. So, if your business has hit that 7 or 8-figure mark, we know how hard you've worked to get there. And you're ready to accelerate your success, but with a team-managed company that can actually flourish without you there, a team that is all in behind your vision. So, check us out at Pinnacle Global Network, where we help leaders like you scale fast and enjoy the ride. So, head to pinnacleglobalnetwork.com.

Awesome.

To learn more. Until next time, keep scaling and living your best life.