How CEOs Can Build a Personal Brand to Scale | Allison Maslan & Traci Stumpf

And I think the hard reality is that like all of our companies could go away tomorrow, you know, like all of this stuff could go away tomorrow and the thing that's standing is you and who are you being. But I will say the one thing that I know about social media is that it is an access point for so many people to get to know you authentically. You have the ability to open up your phone and just be like, good morning, and then post it. And then who knows who's gonna respond to that and who knows who's gonna like relate to that and love that and want to work with you at the end of the day. I was working with this very high-powered CEO, and he was having the hardest time connecting with people over Zoom. Charming in real life, but the second he would get on a Zoom call, he would just like go blank. And we did a lot of work together, and we gave him the brand of the professor. Like, I was like, let's think about you as a professor, and these are your college students, right? When I said that, he just like— everything flipped for him. He took on the persona of a professor, like authentically. And he was like, oh my gosh, I get this. The biggest mistake people are making is they're just not—

Welcome to the Scale-Up Method Podcast. I'm your host, Allison Maslan. I'm the CEO and founder of Pinnacle Global Network, where we mentor CEOs all over the world to grow and scale companies that change the world. And so everything we bring you here on this podcast is to help you to step into your greatness and truly scale your dream, your business, and all aspects of your life. So today on the Scale It Method podcast, we are diving into something that every high-level leader thinks about, but very few actually master. And that's about how you show up and how you're showing up in the world. And it's not about your logo, it's not about your website, it's about your personal presence. Because whether you're pitching investors or you're leading a team or you're stepping on stage or you're recording content or you're doing a podcast, your energy and your delivery are communicating long before your words do. So my guest today is a true master of this craft. Tracy Stumpf is an Emmy Award-winning TV host and founder of Getting On Brand, where she helps founders and leaders get great on camera and elevate their presence across all mediums. She spent many years hosting on major networks like E! and MTV and CBS, and now she brings that expertise to CEOs, to creators, executives, anyone that needs to step into more trustworthy and confident and authority-driven version of themselves. So we're going to talk about what it really takes to get on brand, and especially in the world where CEOs being asked to show up more publicly than ever. So, uh, Tracy, welcome.

Allison Maslan coming in hot with that intro.

Yeah, well, it's— I think this is such an important topic, and we talk about, you know, social media goals and podcast goals and all of that, but it all starts with how we show up.

It all starts with how you show up. And like, what I teach is people how to be good on camera. Like, that's the backbone of, of what I'm doing because it really— everybody has to be on camera right now. And it's, it's such an interesting time. And I genuinely have so much compassion for founders, CEOs, entrepreneurs, anybody who's like getting something off of the ground, has something off of the ground, is, is very successful because they signed up for something completely different. You know, like a lot of people who started these companies or who are working working in these, you know, leader positions, all they wanted to do was that job. And now we're in this world where you have to be so many things in order to do that job. You know, like you have to have a podcast, you have to go on other podcasts, you have to be politically correct, you can't get canceled, you have to run a social media account, and you have to be good on camera. And my intention is to take one of those millions of things off of your plate and, and, you know, help you shine. And that's being good on camera. Like, my intention is for you to see the little green light in any form and be like, okay, I, I got this. So you can focus on the other bajillion things you have to do to run a business.

Yeah. And so Tracy, I, I want to step back for a moment because I wanted to share the story of how you and I met. Is that okay?

Yeah. Oh my God, share it all.

So Tracy's dad, uh, Joe, uh, we got to know each other many years ago before I even started this business. We actually met in the gym training together and struggling with our trainer— was he— was in— is intense, right? And so we, we got to know each other and so forth. And Joe actually is the one that came up with the idea for this business, Pinnacle Global Network, that we've been running now going into our 17th year. So that's pretty monumental. We were having a conversation one day and he said, Allison, I have an idea for you to scale this company, because I was coaching at the time businesses, business owners and so forth. He goes, let's go to lunch. So he literally mapped out on a napkin. This was back in the end of 2009 on this idea, which would be now the framework of Pinnacle Global Network.

That's amazing.

Heading on 2 decades later.

You still have the napkin?

You know, I don't still have the napkin, darn it all. But I remember that moment and your dad and I have reflected on that. Many times. Now, obviously, it's grown beyond the napkin. Yeah, so much more.

It's scaled.

It's, it's scaled bigger than this. I, I didn't even have the dream completely formulated yet, but now it's grown into a vision that's taken on its own. So I am forever grateful for your dad. That is so cool because he, you know, he took the time of his day to say, I want to share this with you. And this was fully a give. It wasn't about something that he was going to gain for himself. And then when a genius—

he has— he really is. I mean, I'm so in awe of his brain 95% of the time.

Yeah, well, he's your dad, so— but check out his word work, Joseph Stumpf. He's incredible. So anyway, let's get into this. You say that your brand isn't, um, Tracy, I've seen your work, right? You say your brand isn't just what you say, it's how you say it.

Yeah, it's who you are.

For CEOs, what does that actually look like day to day when you're leading or speaking or creating content?

It means being consistent, predictable, and reliably yourself 100% of the time. It's not being wishy-washy. It's knowing who you are and stepping into that and running with it in every single facet of your life. I find it to be so maddening when one person is somebody with this person and a different person with this person and then completely different with their friends, but like, you know, mean to— and it's being on brand is being authentic across the board. We're all adults. We all know we have to like wear different hats with different people, but you're the same person always.

Yeah, that you're being congruent.

Yes. Yes.

Internally and externally. I love when people say that. About people when they'll say, if, you know, if someone that's super visible and then you hear they're just like that in real life. Yeah.

Yeah.

You love hearing that.

Yeah.

They're just as genuine on camera in their life and how they are with people, how they treat people.

And I think the opposite is true as well, right? Like if somebody kind of plays a, you know, blacked out, just like not super engaged and they're like, yep, they're the exact same way in real life. And it's like, God bless. Like, that— they are being authentically themselves, for better or for worse, right? And there's something like really beautiful about that, and there's something really powerful about consistency in your brand. And when I say brand, I'm like saying, who are you authentically? Who— what's the brand?

What—

who are you being and how are you acting?

Yeah, so it doesn't feel like there's this big split.

100%.

So like, like a you know, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

People can smell a split. We know when you get up on stage, we know when you're on a panel, we know when you're doing, you know, founder stories, when you're acting differently.

You know, I want to just— this kind of reminds me when I first started speaking, Tracy. I hired this speaking, uh, well, he was a media trainer. He was a trainer, but he was It was kind of a comedian, actor sort of thing. Yeah. And so he crafted exactly what I needed to say and when I needed to say it. And you got to— when you do this, your arm goes up here. And I literally spent months practicing and it was— my brain just wasn't computing. And I, I went to do a speaking engagement and it was so bad and it was so— it wasn't who I was. I was completely connected. In fact, somebody on the critique at the end said, "I didn't feel any connection with this woman at all." My husband was in the back of the room like this, with like, "Oh my God, this is not her." But I felt like I kind of had to go. It was so painful that it was glaring to me, like, "I just have to be myself." There's no other way.

And I think that's kind of the typical media training mentality, is like this one-size-fits-all, camera 1, camera 2, cross your arms. If you're If you look to the right, you're lying. If you look to the left, you're— they know that you're trying to recall something. You know, like there's like this— there's like a lot of bullet points that like classic media training hits. And I think it's terrible because it's— that's the end result, right? Is like you're feeding somebody something that they can't digest. Like you— that's not who you are. And it's not a one-size-fits-all thing. You can— there's enough funny people out there. Like you do not have to be the funny person on stage. Let the funny people be funny. Like, you be you.

Yeah, I love that. You know, when we were talking, Tracy, you said before, if you're stiff.

Yeah.

And that's just your personality. You're just a little uptight and you're more that rigid type of person.

Lean in.

Instead of trying to be relaxed and cool and, you know, just go with the flow. And that's not who you are. You're saying lean into the rigidity.

I'm saying if you are awkward and you're weird, hone it and like funnel it, but get on brand. Like give yourself, give yourself permission to be rigid and stiff and be like, that's just who I am. There's, there's so many people out there who are so loose and who are so good at being loose and we feel their, their authenticity in their looseness, so to speak, that like we don't feel that from you, but we, we will feel the authenticity of you being a bit more rigid and like a bit more type A. And like, you know, get, get to know that side of yourself. And if that's who you genuinely are, do it, bring it to the table.

And so what is— how do we know if someone is showing up authentically or are they just showing up? I mean, what are some signs that someone is performing instead of being present? I'll say a friend of mine has been helping me with my social media. And she'd say, Allison, you're sounding too market-y. Well, I've been speaking for years, so I'm used to presenting in a certain way. And she said, you wouldn't talk like that to your friend. She goes, you wouldn't call me up and say, oh, I'm so excited we're doing this thing, right? Oh my gosh, look what we're doing. This is the coolest thing ever.

Well, my whole thing is like, I take people through like a series of questions, and it's like a lot of like interpersonal work and like figuring out who you are and digging deeper. And then I give you a brand or like a mantra or a lane or an archetype to play in. So it's like you come out of it being like, "Okay, I'm the mom," and then you become the mom of the company. So what is it like? What does a mom do? How does a mom react? How does a mom talk to the masses? Like if you were at a PTA, like if you're giving a speech, let's pretend it's a PTA, how do you speak to the PTA? How do you speak to people individually? How does the mom brand, how does the mom archetype deal with people? And that's how you you kind of like get yourself into a lane or like get yourself into the framework of your brand and who you are, and then you just play from that lane.

So, um, yeah, I, I love that. That makes so much sense. And then, you know, there's some of that are listening right now and they're thinking, well, I am too nervous to get on camera, or, uh, I— this feels overwhelming to me. I'm not having a good hair day. So how do you, how do you help them when they're feeling this type of pressure?

You have to identify what the brand is. You have to figure out what your brand is, fully embody that brand, and then ask yourself the question, does the brand care if it's a bad hair day? How does the brand deal with a bad hair day? What— okay, if the brand is feeling nervous, how does— let's use the mom, the mom thing. Okay, if a mom is feeling nervous, is that an on-brand feeling? Does a mom feel nervous? No, a mom doesn't feel nervous. We have so much to get done. So then how does a mom overcome nervousness? Well, she remembers that it's not about her. So you become about the people because that is— that's the brand. So when you get caught up in like the little details of getting on camera, you have to ask yourself the big, the big umbrella picture question is what's the brand? And then how does the brand respond? And is it on brand to be nervous? For a lot of people, it's not. And I would say, like, most people that I work with that are in power and CEOs and these— I call them forward-facing founders, where they're like in front of these massive amounts of people— you can't be nervous. It's off brand. We, we need to trust you, and we don't trust nerves. Yeah, you know, so you can't— you don't have the option to be nervous on camera anymore. Maybe 10 years ago, 5 years ago you did. As of this particular moment, you do not have that.

What, what could they do to overcome those nerves? How?

Get so insanely clear on who you are and be that person 110%. And like, to your point earlier, like, the classic media training is like 3 deep breaths in, 4 deep breaths out, exhale, inhale, visualize yourself succeeding. All of those things are so great, and I think anybody can really value from that sort of those grounding activities. But I think if you're not rooted in your personal brand and your authentic— in your authenticity, you will— it won't go smoothly for you. Yeah, no matter, no matter how many inhales and deep exhales you take.

And I, I just want to speak to the fact that the more you do it, yeah, the easier it gets.

Yes.

So don't wait until you are just rock solid.

No.

And then get on, like, the The, the, I know the more that I was in the early days when I, because I've been doing podcasting for so many years, that helped me to get comfortable. I didn't, I was like, what am I going to talk about for an hour?

Right. Repetition.

Yeah. Right.

And then you also, again, like you got to go back to like, okay, the brand, who am I and how does this brand, how does this, this like authentic me prepare for this stuff? Is it repetition? Is it like a type A type brand? And if it is a type A type brand, then like Maybe you prepare by having a teleprompter and your practice is getting really good at the teleprompter or having like a bunch of notes or having cue cards. Like, how does the brand— how do you learn? How do you communicate? How do you get out of like that nervous body?

Yeah, that's a great idea. How do you make this easier for you?

How do you make it easier for you? But the first question has to be like, who am I? Who am I? Who is on camera? Who is doing this?

You know, it's such a great question. I think I have to think about that too, because I mean, I know we have our certain brand, but I, you know, when I— that's a, that's a big question.

It's a big question, Allison. I mean, I would say from my limited time with you and like not knowing anything about what people think about you and like, again, like I have a series of like 7 questions and like if we were to work together, we'd like go super deep into it. But like I would say like your I mean, you're very aspirational and yet you're very relatable, right? Like you walk that fine line of relatability and aspiration so nicely, which is probably why you're so successful because we all want to be you, but we all feel like we can still be friends with you. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

And you have like, which almost like comes across as like a kindergarten teacher. Do you know what I mean? And like, we're all like, you're, and I mean that in the best way possible, but like you have that, aspiration of like your students want to be you. Like, we, like, we, you, we want to know more about you. And then we also feel like we can't reach you. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Well, but I think that's okay. But I, I, I appreciate that. That's very, very kind of you to say that. And I'll just say that I feel I'm right there with like all of our clients, our team. Like, I'm there in the trenches with you. I may not be doing that role anymore, but I feel it and I've, I've lived it. And so—

and that's what I'm saying, like, that's the brand. You walk that fine line, right? Like, you're in charge, but you're also still in the trenches.

Yeah.

And I think that's what makes you, like, very successful, and I think that's what makes you be able to, like, do what you do. And I think that's the high level of thinking about it. But if I were to give you just, like, a brand, I would be like, you feel like the kindergarten teacher of this room, which means that you're in charge, you're in power, you're in control, but you're also sitting on the floor reading us a book.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. I love it. I would like to go back to kindergarten.

Girl, I'm ready.

That sounds really good, actually. So, uh, let's talk about, um, some strategy. So, uh, as a company scales, you know, their CEO's presence becomes their, their leadership tool. So how do, how can you use voice tone, body language to, to build trust and alignment with your audience?

I mean, it really does come back down to like, who are you and like what works best for you? But I really do think visibility is everything. I think people don't trust people they can't see on a daily basis. And I think getting in front of the camera every single day, whether it means Instagram or TikTok or Facebook or, you know, a founder story or Zooms with your people every single day, is is insanely important. And I can't say like, okay, well, you have to like have this inflection or hit this tone or don't go, don't go down when you're saying this word, because I think that's all very generic advice and doesn't work for every person. But I will say visibility is everything. I think once we can see you, we trust you.

Yeah, it used to be so much about the business brand. Yes, which still is. But we think of the big brands that we've known for the years, right? Nestlé, Kellogg, Apple, all of those. It was really the brand. Like, I don't even really know who— I know who Apple, Steve Jobs, but I didn't— I don't know who the founder of Kellogg is. And so, but it's changed so much because of social media.

Yeah.

Uh, is who is the person that you are the brand relationship?

Yes, you are the brand. And I think the hard reality is that like all of our companies could go away tomorrow, you know, like all of this stuff could go away tomorrow. And the thing that standing is you. And who are you being? Who are you showing up as? Because you are the brand. You're, you're just working for the bigger brand, you know, but like, it's you. You're the brand.

Yeah. Yes, you are the brand.

You are the brand, baby.

And so are there any, um— so you're saying get out, create content, be visible every day. Are there Any camera mistakes that they need to avoid, uh, or some, some tips?

Well, I mean, let's, you know, yeah, I mean, there's a million camera mistakes, including like lighting. Like, I'll be well lit. I would say have good lighting and good audio and then be authentically yourself. But I think the biggest mistake people are making is they're just not doing it. Like you said at the beginning, like, people are waiting for the right timing. They're waiting for their microphone to arrive. They're waiting for like the new iPhone. Like, there's so much waiting and there has to be more doing. And it's scary and it sucks. And like I said at the beginning, like, I have so much empathy for every single person who has to go on camera who, who didn't choose this life. You know, I've been, I've been working in television for 15 years. I've hosted over 500 different episodes of television. Like, I've been doing this for so long. It's a life that I chose. And so many people who are running businesses did not choose this. So just to get up every single day and and do it is massive. I think it's everything.

I think this is a good point because it doesn't have to be a really well-produced video. You can do it on your stories.

Yes.

I go through this too, Tracy. It's like, am I in someplace? I'm like, it's so easy and it comes out and I'm doing this thing and I'm going to share it. But then you're kind of reminding me I could have done a video before I started this podcast, or maybe I'll do it. Afterwards to say, hey, I'm so, you know, I'm going to be talking to Tracy and I just want to tell you how I met Tracy, uh, or, you know, always an opportunity for a video.

And I'm not a social media expert and I don't claim to be, and I think anybody that does claim to be is crazy because the algorithm is constantly changing and everybody's always chasing something different. But I will say the, the one thing that I know about social media is that it is an access point for so many people to get to know you authentically. And I think that is so cool. I think that's so awesome that you have the ability to open up your phone and just be like, good morning, you know, and then post it. And then who knows who's gonna respond to that, and who knows who's gonna like relate to that and love that and want to work with you at the end of the day. Yeah, I love it.

It's so inspiring about— yeah, what is it? What you, uh, what really moves you?

Totally. And a lot of people are like, I have nothing to say. And it's like, open your calendar, dude. Like, what are you doing today? Your calendar is your content. You're doing— Allison, I'm sure you have 150,000 things on your calendar today. Every single one of those things is a video.

Yeah, you know, this is so good, Tracy, because I get into that loop too. Yeah, all right. I just don't know what to say. When I'm talking all day. It's crazy. So even just looking at your calendar and talking about the different things that you're doing or what you like or don't like about it. Or— Yeah.

Or it's like, you know, you look at— you're like, okay, at the morning between 8 and 8:30, I have to take my kids to school. Okay, what's the brand? What's the brand identity? If it's like the mom brand identity, great. Like, let's lean into your kids, lean into your life. If it's on brand for you. Again, if you're like, brand is like Type A, rigid, all work, no play. Then probably talking about your kids going to school is not the right move. It would probably be like, I hate when my kids spill Cheerios in my car because I'm a clean person, or I'm Type A and this is what is hard about driving my kids to school, right? So it's like you have to ask yourself, what's the brand and how would the brand approach this video? But I think everything you do is a great opportunity to let people in. And you have to think about social media and video and getting on camera as like a living, breathing resume, right? Like people come and look at your stuff and then decide if they want to work with you or not.

Yeah. Can you share a story, Tracy, maybe? Because you've seen so much on camera. It was there. You share a before and after story that sort of illustrates the work you do and what's possible.

I was working with this very high-powered CEO who runs a company of so many people, and he was having the hardest time connecting with people over Zoom. Like, that was— it was just like charming in real life, but the second he would get on a Zoom call, he would just like go blank. And we did a lot of work together, and we gave him the brand of the professor. Like, I was like, let's think about you as a professor, and these are your college students, right? And like, when we said that, he when I said that, he just like, everything flipped for him. He took on the persona of a professor, like authentically. And he was like, oh my gosh, I get this. And he, the way he could authoritatively speak to these people in these Zoom calls and not be intimidated by the amount of people watching, because that's who he is. That was his job, right? Like he's there to teach the college students. And it just— oh, God, I wish I could say his name and send examples because it was night and day when that switch flipped for him. And even messing up, you know, when you mess up on brand, you're not messing up at all. When he was fumbling a lot over words and I was like, okay, well, how would a professor fail? How does a professor of Harvard University fail? And it's like, well, they fail with grace, you know, like they say something, they, they address it and then move on quickly. Right. As opposed to like Lenny, it completely ruined their day.

Yeah. It reminds me during the pandemic, there was that one CNN interview that that gentleman was doing where he was walking behind.

Yeah.

Coming in and his wife was trying to get them back in.

Yeah.

And people just fell in love with that. Right.

Because, because it's real.

It was real. Yeah. And we all go through that. Yeah. How are you managing at home when your kids are running through or your dogs are barking and things like that? So I think that's beautiful.

I think it's really beautiful too. And I think the other, like, the downfall of a lot of these people and these high performers is that they're not integrating their real life with their professional life. And I think that's such a good example of, like, when the kids were running through and the mom was, like, pulling the kid. And it's like, this is life. We're not robots. We're real people. And at the end of the day, we're all just trying to get by and figure it out and move forward. And I think if we can be real with people and if we could just be like, ugh, I don't know, that's so much more powerful than pretending like we have it all together.

Yeah, this is such a powerful conversation. And I really think it's given me some food for thought, and I hope for those of you listening as well. And so Tracy, you work with people, you work with people in small groups. Yeah, can you just share a little bit of the work that you do?

Yeah, I mean, I, I usually go into a company or do a Zoom meeting and we work 5 people at a time usually on Zoom. And we— it's, I mean, it's self-help, it's like personal development work, figuring out like your downfalls and your, your strengths, weaknesses, and giving you like a super solid brand and a super solid brand identity so you can be that person on camera. You can like tap into that energy and be it. And I find it to be so fulfilling, and I just, I love, I love what I genuinely love what I'm doing so much.

Well, you're gifted at it, and so I, I think this is fantastic. So we will put in the show notes too how people can reach you, but what, what is a great way for people to connect? Instagram.

Instagram's always good.

Okay, so yeah, we'll put up the spelling of your name. Yes, is it Tracy Stumpf? Is that what it's under?

That's it, that's the one.

Okay, wonderful. Well, this has been fantastic. Do you have any last—

I want to ask you a question. What, what is your relationship with the camera?

What is my relationship?

Yeah, with getting on camera. Like, does it give you anxiety? Do you— how do you feel before you get on camera or like while you're on camera? Camera? Because you present very confidently.

Well, I'd say my relationship has changed. Yeah, now I feel very comfortable on camera because I'm on stage all of the time. But when I started this back in— my first book came out at the end of 2008, early 2009. I remember shooting a bunch of videos back then, and they would say, okay, Allison, we're going to have you say this one line. And I'd go I got it, I got it. And then they would go, okay, go. And I, I couldn't remember the one line. Yeah, this went on all day. It was so painful. And I remember showing the video to, to my husband and we were just like, you know, you might want to do something else. It was so— so I would say that I had to work through all of that and I had to work through worrying what people thought.

Oh, that's a big one, right?

It was so big for me. And I just— and now I'm like, I can't say I don't, you know, I want to make a good impression and I want to make a good impact. But now I'm so comfortable just being myself. Right. But it took being really bad for a while. And even as a speaker is to be willing. I remember when I started speaking, I brought a friend and I made her turn around so that I couldn't see her face because I would get so nervous.

So any of those nerves in your body, like, is there like a little bit of like, oh, when you, when you turn on a camera?

Not so much. You know, if I'm going to get on stage, I always, I do have the butterflies in the stomach. Yeah, but that's okay because that actually, I think that adrenaline is really healthy.

Totally.

I don't get nervous on the camera anymore, but that's just because of practice. That's it. So Right. That I would say. But I want people to know that it's— I sucked. You got to work through the suck.

You got to work through the suck. I can just expedite your suck a little bit faster. But it's like you really do. And it's just repetition. It's just practice. It's going to the gym, you know? And I think that's why social media is so cool, because it is— it's like a place for you to do reps. You know, you can just keep trying and trying and trying and trying.. And it's so awesome.

You can reach millions of people, really, the world is your stage. So, wow, this is so powerful, Tracy. Thank you. And definitely reach out to her if this is an area that you want to improve on. I highly, highly encourage you to do that. Yes. Tracy, thank you for being on the Scale-Up Method podcast. Thank you. And speaking of scaling, that's what the Scale-Up Method podcast is all about. That's the work we do in Pinnacle Global Network. If you're in a place where you're like, you know what, I am a CEO, I've taken my business here, but I really want to take it here, then I encourage you to apply for one of our scale sessions with our high-level CEO strategists. And they're going to open up the hood to all areas of your company and they're going to help you diagnose what are the areas that are holding you back and what are the steps you need to take to get to the next level.. And so all you need to do is go to myscalesession.com, myscalesession.com, and then they, you'll be able to schedule a time, set all that up. And you can also ask any questions about Pinnacle Global Network. They will give you all the answers that you need. And until next time, make decisions from where you're going, not from where you're at.

Thanks everybody.