How to Create a Brand Community People Actually Want to Be a Part Of

Welcome to Ali and you'd the business success and lifestyle show. My name is Alyson Maslin. My friends call me Ali. And today it is all about going viral with your message. Do you want to make global change? Do you want to know how to do that? Then you've got to be here for this episode of Ally and you'd. Hi there. I am so excited that you are here today to join me because you are going to be so happy that you did. I want to introduce our very special guest. Dean Gray has over 20 years of experience in the science of engagement. What is that we're going to find all about the science of engagement and he is recognized globally as one of the leading experts in community building for lifestyle brands. And we've heard a lot about that lately. So we're going to talk about that now. Throughout his career, he's kept his finger on the pulse of innovation and created several technology focused organizations that create massive change on a global level. So, so exciting. And we're going to hear all about this and how Dean is helping business owners go viral and share their mission. So welcome Dean.

Thank you.

I'm really honored that you're here today. And you know, your background is so interesting and you're up to all kinds of cool stuff. And when you and I met and you showed me some of the things that you were up to, technology wise, I thought I got to have you on my show.

Thank you.

People want to know this. So let's just back up a little bit before we go into all this stuff. You know, tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, what has your entrepreneurial journey been like?

Like a lot of people, but it was started mainly just in my teenage years just wanting to basically become the posters that were on my wall, you know, and they don't teach you that stuff in school. You know, if you want to be an actor, singer, athlete. I didn't realize that a lot of that required being an entrepreneur. So I first started off as a performer, but then I ended up realizing, my gosh, if you want to be an artist or a performer, if you want to make money at it, you actually have to become an entrepreneur.

Right?

Isn't that interesting that that part isn't? I mean, you could learn to be an artist, but then if you're actually going to make any money at it, right? Or have a living, you actually need to run it like a business.

And I didn't realize being an athlete was the same thing. But then I grew up during that era of mtv was Starting off, and you started realizing that all these people were out there, and you started to see it on TV that, hey, you hit a home run, you come out with a hit album, and the next thing you do is you come out with a shoe line or something, right?

Yeah. And those that have been able to do that really are the ones that created a brand around what they do and to be able to monetize that. So. And so you were single dad and trying to make it and build these businesses. And I can relate because I was a single mom, too. And so what were. How did you manage during the difficult times? I mean, what was it that kept you going? I think that's so important because, you know, people that are watching and they're running businesses and they're hitting those walls. What was it for you that helped you continue moving through?

Well, I think in my space, because, like I mentioned, I was coming at it from wanting to be an athlete or a performer of some kind, because I was in the music industry and I was also an athlete that I just sort of was paying attention to. Well, what do these people do to get their lives off the ground? And so, luckily, like I said, in that era when MTV was happening, you could sort of watch their journey, MTV Cribs. You could sort of get an idea what was happening. And suddenly they started life coaching, you know, and their songs and the things they were doing. So it was sort of like listening to a Tony Robbins or a Deepak Chopra back in the day. But then suddenly you had Justin Timberlake talking about what he was doing to get ahead. And I started off single, doing that, you know, was married for a few years, a brief time, and then ended up as a single dad. And then I thought, okay, now what do I do with this? Do I really. Is this time to end my career? Am I now shifting into being just a father? Or how did these other people do it? And I had to make a big decision at that point to not just look at what my friends are doing, because a lot of my friends weren't in that space. I had to literally look at, well, what are the actors doing? What are the singers doing? What are the musicians doing that are.

Single parents or outside of your space?

Yeah, well, we're living, I guess, extraordinary lives. Not that other lives are boring, but just differently.

Right.

And I just studied that. A lot of them had to learn to homeschool their kids. They had to learn to hire teachers. They had to make their children part of their journey instead of giving up their journey to Become a parent.

Yes. Yeah. I've had so many, especially women say to me, did that affect your daughter by you running a business early on? And I said, no, it helped her because your kids, they want to do what you do.

Right.

So you want your kids to go after their dreams. So and so where do you feel that, you know, in the business owners that you've met over the years and experiencing this yourself, where do you feel like that business owners get stuck? You know, they hit that ceiling and they just have a hard time moving beyond.

I think a lot of it is around, I would say in my case, single parents or just parents that are also running the businesses. First of all, I want to agree with what you said. I think that for my daughter, it was inspiring to her to see that you're in the middle of a vision quest. You're doing something epic, you're inspiring people. So it alters their lives because once people get in touch with that, they all want to do it.

Yes.

I think where a lot of people get stuck is they don't know how to handle the time management, they don't study the right people. They have all their friends and relatives that love you. But if they weren't in that situation to be that athlete or that entrepreneur, you've got to be careful who you're listening to and you have to model the right people. So I think one, they get stuck and they don't know how to design a life that's sustainable. So they end up doing it by default or by being guilt tripped by other people. And so I think the first one is managing their life and being a parent and being okay with it and being happy and not feeling they're sacrificing.

Right.

Yeah. That is such a good advice. That's so true. I mean the time is everything and you can get thrown off your path by people being negative.

Right.

And I got a lot of that as well. And you know, that's why like we run a mastermind and you know, that's how you and I met as well. And just surrounding yourself with like minded people that get you, you know, that are going to inspire you and help you.

Yeah. And not make you feel like you're weird and that really understand that it's not only not weird, it's what not to sound wrong. It's what more captivating, curious, dreaming people do. So like, find your people.

Yeah, I love that. Find your people, you know, because we're all born with gifts.

Yeah.

So I feel like business is the best way to Change the world.

Absolutely. I agree.

You know, it truly is. And so let's talk a little bit. Let's kind of segue into technology because it's, you know, I think we're probably around the same age and we've seen so much change. In the early years in business I was like pre Internet in my first business and so forth. And obviously even the last few years things are just multiplying. And let's talk a little bit about the changes that are happening in social media and technology. What are you experiencing?

I'm seeing that there was a. Well, for those of us that have been around long enough to watch this whole thing take place is that there were people that had a social influence or footprint, if you will, of maybe 10, 15 people like Malcolm Gladwell would talk about. Then if you were an outgoing person, you might have had a social influence in the local socialite community of maybe a few hundred. But then social media suddenly allowed everybody to have social footprints of a couple thousand. And that's a big shift in humanity. That wasn't the case. So suddenly people were exposing their lives and building these little micro tribes, if you will. And that hadn't existed for hundreds of years unless you happen to be a very powerful celebrity. So suddenly the average person had celebrity type followings. And it's only gotten bigger. Where today you've got kids at that time, they're done with Snapchat and they're out of college, they have followings larger than celebrities used to.

Right.

So it's really created a whole other world of opportunity. And some of it's positive, some of it's negative. But even by default, if you just happen to be cute or popular or big in sports or an enthusiast, by default you end up with a celebrity following today.

Mm. Right.

It's been a big shift.

Right.

And I also think it's. And it's, it's not just cute too. It's relatable.

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, because sometimes people that are even more quirky or whatever, whatever it is that your, your tribe is connecting to.

Exactly.

Right.

And so. But that's so true. I really, I hadn't thought of it that way, but I mean, you have someone that's coming out of high school or out of college and they're going to have a bigger following than the person they would get the job from.

Absolutely no. And like you said, they follow you for different reasons. One of the heads of YouTube, his name was Andy Stack, he was the head of monetization for YouTube for a while. And he talks about the fact that because you're either outgoing, cute, quirky, thought leader, or a train wreck or comedian.

Or drama, whatever it is.

Exactly. So for whatever reason, people are connecting with you.

Right?

Yeah. It's a big change.

And so what does that mean as we move forward, do you think? I mean, you know, because it's one thing to get a following, but it's like, obviously, and that's what we do when we're coaching business owners to help them, then, you know, monetize that. But you talk a lot about science of engagement, so can you explain what that means?

Yeah, the science of engagement is around exactly what we're talking about. How do you, whether it was by design or by default, if you've been blessed or fortunate to end up with a following. And a following today can be a hundred enthusiasts or a thousand enthusiasts like Tim Ferriss used to talk about. It doesn't need to be millions and millions of people anymore. But however you got there, 15 minutes of fame, won a gold medal, did a podcast, however it happened, now what do you do with it? And it's like people in the old days when they had their 15 minutes of fame. Now I never thought about it, but should I turn this into a career? There's a lot of people now being given that opportunity. So that now comes down to what do I do with this community? And I have to distinguish the difference between my fans who are my storytellers. They're following me because they like me or they related. But out of, let's say, a million fans, how many are your tribe? And your tribe is distinguished by who would do something you tell them. These people would actually take an action if you asked. And there's a big difference. Out of a million fans, you're not going to have a million tribe.

Right.

You might only have 100,000 of them that are your tribe, maybe 50.

Right.

And those are the people that really resonate with what you do. They get it, they feel you, they feel that rapport.

Right?

Yeah. They're into you. They just didn't happen to hit the like button because you were on a movie or they read your book once and it wasn't like a drive by, you know, follow, click, and I'm done. So there's your fans, your storytellers, your tribe, and then there's your co creators and those are the people that actually would love to help you go viral. And so the science of engagement is identifying those different segments in your community.

Interesting.

And then realizing that a couple million fans Means, eh, not much. You know, you have to have millions, 10, 20 million fans to make money in advertising. But if you happen to have 100 or 1,000 tribe members, that's suddenly worth 10, $20 million.

Right.

And if you've got co creators, that can be worth a ton. So figuring out out of your people how many would do something monthly. And if you have 200,000 people doing something monthly, it's around a 40 million dollar valuation. If you have 200,000 people doing SOMETHING daily, it's a billion. Well that's a major difference. So the science of engagement is, well, how do you get people to go from being casual fans to tribe members or co creators?

Right.

So it's really taking all of this buzz that you've created and all these connections and then directing it towards something really having a goal for it beyond. Because I think a lot of times people will get into social media and they're just like, I want to create fans, I want to create a following, but there isn't a goal or direction to it.

Exactly. And that's the difference because a lot of times it's still focused around the fan base, not the tribe.

Right.

Because they haven't even distinguished the difference.

So how do you make that shift? How do business owners make that shift from the fans to the tribe?

They have to sit down and figure out who are they, what's their brand and is there a mission they're trying to meet, is there a cause, is there a transformation, are they a brand, are they a company, is it an individual? But with what you're developing, where are you trying to go? And so first identifying that is a big difference and then having fun with it and just learning. Okay, well if I could tell people what to do, what would they do? And what would recognize, reward, inspire people, learn to create the conditions to have inspired actions.

Right.

Well, I just think it's so meaningful when you are connected to people that you're aligned with.

Yeah.

You have similar values, you have a similar mission, you want to see similar changes in the world. And you know, I think as human beings we are better, you know, joined. There's, there's the power in the team.

Yeah, well, and there's a whole term called social learning today which is the concept of. They talk about the, the learning modalities of visual, audio, kinesthetic. Well now there's one that's a, that's coming out that we do some talks on called social learning, which is the 190, 90 rule of the, you know, you have 1% that's leading a mission. That's 1%, 9% that's engaging with that leader talking. Then the other 90%, that's learning by watching the leader talk to those other people. But because you can watch them take actions, watch them answer questions, watch them do things. A lot of people learn through social learning. It's called the fifth learning modality to help.

Wow. I did. I didn't know about that one. Yeah, so, yeah, that's. That's, you know, because you're trying to know are my. The audio and the kinesthetic and.

Right.

And now. So now we've got the social.

It's one of the reasons certain platforms or things you're doing are so addictive. But addictive can be a good thing. It's just creating habits. So it's learning what are those triggers that the people who've mastered them often at first was mastered in the gaming industry, but all they really did is learn certain behaviors. And if you can take those positive behaviors and learn to reward skill sets and forward movement. Because unfortunately, with social, it started off with just rewarding you for being nothing but social.

Right.

So then you get some brilliant minds that think, well, I don't have time to just be social.

Right.

But if I could actually identify people with skills, reward the right behavior, oh, I'd be all about it. But if I'm just rewarding people for cute selfies, I'm not interested.

Right.

Yeah.

Especially people that are making change and things happen in the world.

Right.

They're busy. And, you know, we have. I have a mastermind called Pinnacle Global Network, and we have this incredible community. And what I've been able to see over the years, we're now in our seventh year, and we have business owners all over the country, and. And in a sense, we have our tribe. They are each other's tribe. And what I've seen over the years happen is then they're each a catalyst for creating. Helping them step up as leaders and then creating their own tribes from there, too. So there's all these kind of spinoffs that happen, and it's that ripple effect that's so powerful.

We're all somebody's mentor. We're all somebody's example, whether we know it or not. And one of the difficult things is if. But if there was a way to visually demonstrate that we've all heard, whatever action you take, it will ripple.

Yes.

Well, one of the things that game designers have done so well is they give you a visual demonstration of that. Because I remember, do you remember when Voxer first came out or Heytel or these communication apps like WhatsApp? I'm still positive that I'm responsible for about 20 million people on those because I put some of the biggest thought leaders and speakers at the time on those communication devices. However, I could be completely delusional. I have no idea. But if I'm not and I'm really responsible for 50 million people or 20 million people, I wish the company would know about it and recognize me.

Right.

So there's an example of I might have had a ripple, but if it wasn't measured, it couldn't be rewarded.

Right.

Well, that would be so smart of them.

Right.

Because they want lots more of you.

And that's where you help people going from. Look, I don't want to be your fan. I'd love to be. We like to say if you want to be my fan, go to social media, but if you want to be part of my tribe, download our app.

Right.

That's the difference. And it'll shock you how many people. There's actually more people that would love to be working with you. Because right now we're only offered to be a fan.

Right.

And that doesn't turn a lot of people on.

And so. And that's kind of what you're working on, right? Is you're really. Can we talk a little bit about that? Because when we met, you talked about really moving people onto their own platforms.

Well, one of the things we've learned is that in my personal experience, I was fortunate to be able to travel globally and for 13 years, 15 years, travel from country to country and develop a fan base of 20, 30 million people. But of those exact situations, those people, I was only able to get about a couple hundred thousand that would do something. So I'd have a couple hundred thousand people attending live events or seminars. So there's an example of difference between the fan base versus the tribe.

Yeah.

But when I went to sell that company, if you don't own the platform or if you. If you can't track the behavior, you're not worth as much as you should be. And then what's unfortunate is as we're all building, whatever we're doing, we're building a movement by default, we probably haven't allowed our people a chance to go talk somewhere about us. So they always end up on a chat room or forum. And then what's unfortunate is this thing over here that you didn't create sometimes is worth more money, your tribe, than what you were. So we want to be like the Robin Hood and say, let's give your people back to you.

Right.

Because you did the work. It's your tribe.

Right.

You know?

Yeah. And you want to be able to, you know, communicate as you will and so forth. And you just don't know. I remember about a month ago I was on Facebook, it was like 11 o' clock at night and the whole page went down like. And it was down for. Remember that, Jared? And I was in a panic, of course, because we do so much marketing on Facebook and I love all of our fans and our tribe on there that we're communicating with. And it was, it disappeared and I was trying from every which way and it was like 25 minutes. So I had that moment and I thought, okay, so let's maybe it's not coming back. All these years that we built and we're just gonna have to get creative and figure something else out. And so it's kind of what you're talking about here because you really, you're doing all this work and you're building it up on all these other platforms, but you don't really. We don't know tomorrow what's gonna happen there.

And Facebook giveth. And Facebook can taketh away. Yeah, it's, you know, and that's the same thing with Google. You can. They can change the algorithm one day. But I think one of the things that was sad for me to see is myself, some of my friends that were in music or sports or thought leaders, we had done all this work and when it came time, we just didn't realize that if we just would have had the platform and we're never going to compete with social media. Let it rain. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it, but just make sure you own one of the buckets.

Right.

So give your people an additional place to go where you can give them better rewards, better recognition, co create with them, train track reward, recognize. I mean, recognition is huge.

Yeah. Who doesn't like recognition?

Right.

And appreciation. We all really, we really like that. So that is, that's so incredible. And I know we're going to be seeing more of that. So it's really about moving people from these to like having their own apps and things like that, that people can be communicating and connecting with each other.

And you just had a good point. Is it? We like to say that just like how WordPress 13 years ago really helped the world when people didn't know what was going on and they thought, okay, everyone's got to go online now. Who's going to go online. Businesses, individuals. How big do I need to be to have a website? Suddenly WordPress just said, forget it. You know what? I think everyone's going to want something. So they created a template and they helped 75 million people go online. Well, now apps are the new websites and most people would love their own app if they didn't have to go build it. And so they want their own apps and they want to be able to recognize their tribe. And it's just. It's really just. It's something that's coming, it's a trend. We're not going to stop it.

It's here, right?

Just like websites, they're here.

Yes, they are. And do you feel like people are going to be moving away from websites? I mean, I keep hearing that.

I think that you'll always have a desktop interface with. Now, all an app really is, is. It's not that people want an app, they just want a mobile experience that's native on their phone. So I think you're always going to have a desktop experience and you're always going to have a mobile experience. That mobile experience is just now an app to go with your website. It's not. In addition, it's not. Instead of. It's both.

Okay.

I think you're always going to want all the screen options.

Right?

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So. Well, I mean, you've had just, you know, quite an involvement, like we all have had over the years. So this work that you're doing, how did you move into this really? And to start working with the science of engagement, I mean, what got you here and where are you going with it?

That example. I told you so. I built this. I was fortunate to be in that human petri dish, if you will, having the communities around the world. And I had a jet strapped to my rear end flying around the world, developing my communities. And I realized this isn't sustainable.

Yeah.

And then I realized that a lot. I was just fortunate to meet some really captivating, brilliant minds. You know, for those of us that have traveled, like yourself, you get to interview all these people. And I realized that a lot of it was, wow, in order to keep up their business model, they had to be on point, smiling all the time, a performer. And it's like a lot of folks, you need to have a business model that allows you to get off that rodeo at some point. So it was out of being a potential client, interviewing all my friends and just realizing this is a natural progression. And I started to feel when I was doing all the seminars that in my 20s, I felt like a pioneer. But by the time I was done, I started to feel like a settler. Everybody was doing seminars. So I was like, okay, I want to become a pioneer again. And I realized that mobile was a space gamification, human behavior. I saw these trends happening, so it was just more of an inspiration. And a lot of my friends were telling me, you go do it, you go do it, and we need this, but we're too busy with our empires. Would you please go build that?

Right?

Yeah, I love that. In fact, I used to go city to city to city. I would go 13 cities straight in a row until I finally hit a wall and said, I can't do this anymore.

Anymore.

I mean, I love it and I love meeting the people and I love, you know, I love the work. But you know, I also love being at home with my family and all of that. So, you know, I, I'm grateful for doing that because I do feel like that was a great way to get out there and connect with people all over. But, you know, now to be able to do this and connect with you all here like this, I mean, really.

It'S what gave you your wisdom and knowledge. It was your journey. But you don't want to be a competing commitment. And I think one of the things I really noticed was some of the most brilliant minds I would meet weren't teaching. They were enjoying their families. They were on the back of a yacht somewhere. They were on a ranch in the middle of Texas just enjoying life. And I started to realize that unfortunately some of the most popular, well known people that are out there doesn't mean they're the best. It just means they're willing to have a great publicist and do the dog and pony show. So I was like, okay, wait a minute, what about the people who have really done it? Right? Maybe. So I wanted to connect brilliant minds with eager students. And anytime a brilliant mind is forced to stop mastering their craft, whatever it is, the whole world suffers. So wouldn't it be a lot easier just have a bunch of people pay you two bucks a month to stay connected from around the world and make a few hundred thousand a month and be able to focus on your craft.

Right.

So I just wanted to keep. I just, I just met some really cool people.

Yeah.

And when you meet curious people. Yeah, I think it's. That's what I've noticed. I like people who are curious.

Yeah. Well, that's what you are doing this today. So this is as I was telling you earlier, one of my most favorite things that I do because I get to meet so many wonderful people. So tell me about that a little bit. Who are some of the favorite. Your favorite people that you've met that you interviewed, and some of the things that stood out for you that they shared?

I'd say one of them was just developing the self image when I was first on stage, whether it was performing or coaching, and really starting to test the theories, the things I was teaching, going, okay, I've gotten people in my community to believe this. I agree with this. I know it's resonating. But when you fly to a different country and you're suddenly on stage in front of a bunch of Indians that are wobbling their heads like this, and that means yes, but it sure looks like no. Wow, okay. Is what I'm about to teach still going to relate to this culture? If I'm suddenly now talking to a bunch of people in Japan, really having that gut check of. Is what I'm teaching, only relatable to Americans or certain cultures or races? And I think getting to meet those folks, one of them, what you're getting to is. Was an East Indian lady who sat me down. She said, you know, you did a great talk and you had some core principles that you taught that were really well, but just be careful. Don't be quoting American authors. We've got etchings on caves that say the same things, and my house is older than your country. Yeah, she wasn't rude, but she was just like, just remember, you have to.

Speak to their culture in their language. And I think a lot of business owners make that mistake in when they're marketing in other countries and so forth. I mean, you have to really be sensitive to how others connect and learn and what's important to them and their values.

And I think she was also just trying to remind me that it might have been new to me and I might have learned it from some author. But not to insinuate that this was new information, that this information has been around for a long time. And so maybe to teach from the area of here's where I discovered this truth, but I would never want to insinuate that I found a secret that you didn't already know about. Yeah, so it was a very. It was a subtle difference, but it made a big shift.

Yeah, you wouldn't forget that one.

That's why I'm remembering it right now. I would say another one was Ken Blanchard here locally, who talked to me about that. Whatever you're doing. Always make sure with your community or your people that there's a way to get off the bus, because things change. Cultural changes. People get married. They get. They have children. Just allow people to feel that they can join your cause and graduate without it feeling like a divorce, because that gives people the freedom to come be with you, help move your thing along, and then also know they can leave in peace.

Right.

And it was a subtle difference, but I'd never heard of the graduation model.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. And he's wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Such an interesting man.

And he was one of the ones that was like, could you please show me a way just to have people pay me two bucks a month? Because I'm not going to be traveling now. I want to sit on the back of my deck, and I've got some incredible wisdom from over the years, and I'm at a point where I'm getting to think way more than I ever used to think.

Right.

So some of my wisdom, there's not as much ego involved. It's the right timing. This has to be valuable to somebody.

Right?

Well, I mean, here. That's a perfect example. Here you have someone like Ken Blanchard, who's written all these books. He's so smart, and he has this wisdom. But then there's. There's a shift that has to take place. So it's like the medium has changed, and the message is the same, but the medium has to change. And it's like, how do we. How are you taking that? And now, you know, filtering it through another way.

Well, for example, you can't charge two bucks a month to follow a YouTube channel. And then podcasts are only audio. So we had to invent. At Skylab, we had to invent a way for people to be able to create a channel and have people just say, I'd love to follow you for two bucks a month and not put a credit card in.

Tell us about Skylab.

So Skylab is that Skylab is the world's most gamified, robust social platform that you can create yourself. I mean, we give you this living ecosystem, and then we help you, through the science of engagement, figure out who's your tribe, what's your mission, how do we help you? And we basically help create you an app just for you, and then we give you the controls so you have a command center so you can change things at any given time down the road. Because when you're working with the community, you might need to go, oh, my gosh, I've Got a live event. I need to throw up a button right now that says take a selfie. We're having a contest today, and whoever does this wins this. And you gotta be able to take that button down. But you don't want to go hire coders, so you need it. You need to give the leader his new toy box to play with. And so it was our dream of just going, wow, it would be so cool, some of the people you have, if you could do those things, if it wasn't such a nightmare to build it.

Right.

I mean, that's really always the thing, you know, it's like, oh, that's a great strategy. Who's going to implement that?

Right, Right.

We wanted to take. We wanted to take the conversations, the brainstorming conversations, and make it easier to execute those, to meet the mission.

Right.

And to make it cost effective, too.

Cost effective. Not only for the people building, we call them planets that every time we launch people an app, we're giving them their own world. So it's like we're giving them their own planet. We say, it's your world, it's your planet. You've already. We'll help you populate it and we'll teach you how to control it and.

Have fun with it. Right?

Yeah.

Well, watch our planet coming soon. So this is so exciting. And so, you know, obviously this is like, it's very profound. There's a lot of changes that are happening for you. There's big buzz around this. And so how is it impacting you personally? What does that feel like for you, you know, to be putting this out there and impacting people?

Well, when I made a decision to be willing to step off the metaphorical podium, basically step down from what I was known for and had a decent business with, to get rid of that and to go into the reinventing yourself to create something new. I'd say the first answer to question was I had to be willing to become relevant again and to become invisible for a while. You have to be willing to go from hero to zero, become invisible, play the observer, and be comfortable with not everyone knowing you. And so that was a little bit more of a shock than I realized.

Wow.

See, I love that. I've not heard that before. So it's true. That's a great way to put it, to go from hero to zero. And we have to let our, you know, get out of the way of our ego. I've transitioned so many times to different businesses over the years, years, and some of them were really hard to let Go of, you know, because you're like, wow, I worked so hard to get to this place, but if I'm going to get to over here, I've got to be able to transition out of that. And. But that, that's a great way to explain it from hero to zero and be really okay with that.

And it's time to apply. I remember once a pastor friend of mine was like, dean, it's obvious you're ready for to graduate to something next. The only reason you wouldn't is because you're scared of money because you're giving up something that's safety to go to something unknown or your ego. And he very politely as a pastor kicked me right where he kicked me by saying, I hope you're as strong now or stronger than you were when you were 19 before you got into this space of personal development. It's time to apply all the books that you've been quite quoting for a while.

Yeah, yeah. So enough talk. Let's get some action.

Yeah, you guys, it's time to become the student again, have fun and not be the expert in the room. And that's really awkward when you're used to being the top of your game in some space.

Right.

But it's also exciting because it's like clean slate and you get to create it how you want and you get to learn. And I love learning.

Well, that's where that's. And if you don't love that, you have to love that. So I would say the first step was that the second step was then diving into a space of technology I knew nothing about and having to work with a group of people to create something that I didn't really relate to. I didn't relate to coders. And so I had to go work with a group of people that are not my people. But I had to create something so I could then come back to my people and say, tada. And so I went through the hero to zero. And then, wow, I really don't relate to the people I'm hanging out with to now finally that it's done. I get to now get around other dreamers, thought leaders, speakers, actors, singers, and get around people like yourself. And so now I'm, now I'm excited because I get to take the toy I built and go play with the friends I built the toy for.

Right.

But you took the time and you invested in that hard work.

Yeah.

To put it down. It wasn't always, you know, you have to kind of go through some of that pain. I know When I'm creating, I have to like wall myself off. You know, it's like my husband's sliding food underneath the door so that you can create whatever it is so then that you can then go share that.

Yeah. You have to be willing to be. To hold empty space and be okay with being lonely for a while and not being social.

Yeah.

And humans by nature like to fill empty space, so.

Or you feel like we're missing something. You know, if you. If you know that whole syndrome.

Yeah.

But it's definitely worth it when you give yourself the space, like what you're saying.

And even when I was finally okay with it, dealing with the people around me that weren't okay going, why are you not being social? What's going on? I'm like, you don't understand. I'm reinventing myself. I need some. I need some time to connect. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm not antisocial. But, you know, I related to my friends who were working for gold medals or in the Olympics. You just can't be social if you're in the middle of a hunt. You gotta say goodbye to everybody for two or three years and then show up and win the gold medal and then be social, Right?

Yeah. And then they love you when you win the gold medal. And what's the sport like? I wasn't. What sport's did you do for me? Yeah.

Oh, windsurfing and then just all kinds of sports. I mean, but, you know, any type of waterman type sport.

Yeah. Okay. So you're an athlete.

Yeah, mainly was a dance. Dancing back then.

Oh, okay. Very cool.

That was a long time ago, but.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think too that it's important, staying physical.

Right.

With all the work that you're doing. Because especially with the. It's heavy thinking work. It's like from the neck up. So it's really important to, you know.

Yeah.

Make sure that the neck. If the head's tired, the body better be tired.

Yeah, exactly. Well, this is so cool. So you've created this and so how can people learn more about this? And you. I know that you have, you know, a summit coming up that people can learn about and participate in.

You can go to skylabapps.com and that's the main website where you can learn about the company and schedule demos and stuff like that. If you want to register for a summit on the science of engagement, if you have a community and you want to learn human behavior, one of the things we try to do too is sometimes Technology, by its nature can be very dehumanizing. So learning to humanize technology in the right way is also really important for people. People. So you feel, you know, it doesn't disconnect you from the world. So for there, you can go to skylabapps.com summit and you can register for the next summit we have locally and we'll also live cast it. Or you can also go to the app stores and download Skylab apps, the ultimate tool for influencers. And you can do that on Droid.

And iOS and we'll put that link there up so that everybody can learn about more about what you're doing.

Sure.

So this is awesome.

Thank you.

This is really great. So is there, you know, any final. It's not final, but final for the show. Words of wisdom, like if you're thinking of the business owners out there and they're working hard, like, you know what that's like.

Oh, yeah.

In growing their business, what would you say to them?

I would just encourage you that making sure that you learn to trust your inner authority in addition to whatever outer authority you have going on in your life. Sometimes that outer authority can be your parents, depending on what age you are. It can be your school, it can be the country you live in, it can be a religion. And it's important to have outer authority, but not to the extent that you give up listening to that inner voice and having inner authority. The inner authority doesn't mean you're rebellious. And at some point you just got to trust it. So I think it's. It's be humble with outer authority and seek to learn, but make your final decision with your inner authority.

Oh, I love that. So it's really about following your gut and your true voice.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Well, this has been fantastic.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing this. And I can't wait to learn more about it. Aren't you dying to learn more about that? So check it out. Everything that Dean has to offer here. And until next time on Allie and you'd. And also you can watch us and listen to us on itunes. If you just go to alisonmaslin.com iTunes, you can be listening in the car or when you're running on the treadmill. You don't have to miss an episode of Allie and you'd or we're right here on Facebook. Wednesdays at 4 o' clock Pacific. Until next time. We will see you there. Bye, everybody.