Jeff Bezos Letters with Steve Anderson | The SCALEit Method

Deeply understanding the customer's wants, needs and desires allows you to invent on their behalf, not on the company's behalf.

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Scale IT Method where we teach you to reach the next level in your business. Build your dream team and scale beyond eight figures. Too many business owners are stuck trying to do everything themselves and their businesses are suffering as a result. And I don't want you to be one of those people. I am Allison Maslin. My company, Pinnacle Global Network, has helped thousands of business owners scale their companies using my framework, the Scale IT Method. All business owners face similar challenges when it comes to growth. So on this podcast we are delivering the tactics that you need to finally reach that next level in your business. Build your dream team and scale beyond eight figures. Today I am talking to Steve Anderson and he is co founder and CEO of Catalytic and author of the Bezos 14 Principles to Grow your business Like Amazon, the Bezos letters break down Jeff Bezos letters to Amazon shareholders that reveal how Amazon became the fastest company in history to reach $100 billion in sales. Steve uses his background in risk analysis as an industry leader in insurance to turn the letters into actionable advice that teaches its readers how to take risks and foster an environment of experimentation and customer satisfaction. He was named one of the original 150 LinkedIn influencers and has over 340,000 followers on LinkedIn. And I wanted to bring Steve on the show because he gives several talks on the future of technology leveraging risks. So I knew he was the perfect person to talk about how we can embrace failure, risk, leverage risk as a means of long term success. And in such a rapidly changing market, the need to experiment and test new ideas is more important than ever. And the businesses that stick to their formula.

And for Amazon.com if we execute well. And that idea of day one literally is a thread that goes through every single letter that he wrote. At the end of the letter, usually the last sentence or certainly the last paragraph he talks about, it's still day one. It continues to be day one. And it's a mindset. It's not a day, but it's this mindset of going into your business every day and thinking this is the first day we're in business. The excitement, the challenge, the how do we serve our customers best? And that mindset really is infused throughout Amazon still to this day.

That's so I love that like that just thinking about my business or our clients businesses as day one. Like in the beginning, right? Day one, you're excited, you're Creative. It's, you know, these new ideas that you're putting out in the world. And so he was really fostering this culture of curiosity.

Yes.

And experimentation and action.

Well, and in the 2016 letter, he writes about an all hands meeting. They had him often in Seattle. He was on stage in front of a couple thousand Amazon employees in the Q and A part, so employees could ask him questions. And he had them on a card and he looked down and he kind of smiled and said, I think I know the answer to this question. And it was, Jeff, what does day two look like? And he said, day two is stasis followed by irrelevance, followed by excruciating, painful decline, followed by death. Well, the audience broke into laughter and applause and he closed out the meeting with. And that is why it's always day one. And again, if you go back to some of those companies I talked about, while it could happen over a long period of time and many times it did, that same type of process is what happens as you scale. Right. How do you protect? And so he went on in that 2016 letter to say, I'm more interested in how you protect a day one mindset. And he lists four items. First is customer obsession, which is again, one of my principles. Second is a skeptical view of proxies. Now, his term for proxy is a process or a procedure that really no longer serves the customer right. When you call up and say, oh, the customer service person says, oh, you know, that's not our procedure. We can't do that. Third is an eager adoption of external trends, which I think is. That's a whole topic I talk about in and of itself. And four is high velocity decision making. And so three of those items are ones of the principles that I talk about.

And so high velocity, obviously, let's make decisions quickly so that we can move forward.

Right. And the question again is, how do you do that? Or how does Amazon implement that? And again, all of these different tools and ideas just infuse Amazon and is why they are so really agile and adapt quickly to things that are changing. I mean, right now in the news, as we're recording this, there's all kinds of talk about they've stopped development of Scout, which is kind of their sidewalk delivery. They stop things all the time, but then they go forward. So that's that interesting kind of balance between, again, you mentioned experimentation leads to invention, which allows innovation. And that's sort of the background of that comment I make that I think a lot of businesses get it wrong when they think they need to innovate when in actuality I think they need to invent.

And Amazon, so what is the difference in your mind? You mean invent like something totally new instead of innovate, you know, shift.

Yeah. And again, it gets gray. I absolutely agree with that. But when you think about Amazon, they literally have created multiple billion dollar businesses by being willing to think about the customer first. And again, Bezos uses the phrase a lot. We invent on behalf of the customer. Lots of examples there. I mean, think about the Kindle, right? Kindle's completely changed the publishing business, how people read and. But people already had books. So did they innovate on the book or did they invent a whole new way of consuming books? And I would say from my perspective, when they invented the Kindle, it was a whole new way of looking at books. And in fact, he talks about the Kindle, saying, we had the audacious goal of replacing something that's been around for 500 years, which is a book, a traditional book. And he said, as we dug into it, we began to realize that the, the book actually fades away. When you're reading a good book, you don't think about the book, you think about the story and what's going on. And he said, how can we do that in a Kindle? And the goal for the Kindle was any book in the world in 60 seconds or less. Audacious goal, right.

They had to invent, read any book.

Start, buy, download and start reading any book. I'm sorry, I was going to say.

That'S speed reading at its.

Yeah, but being able to start a book in 60 seconds or less, that was the goal for the Kindle. And that's why, for example, they didn't. They had WI fi, but they built in cellular data so you could get the book, you didn't have to connect it to a computer, which is what the norm was at the time.

Yeah, Hey, I just downloaded one yesterday. So yeah, it is like we almost take that for granted now, right? That becomes a part of.

Yeah, now. And I would say they have kept innovating the Kindle. Right. So they, Amazon just announced a Kindle scribe. You can write on it, write your notes and all those notes are preserved and write all of those kinds of things.

But yeah, yeah, that would be innovating. Maybe that would be innovating. That would be innovating, right, Correct. So let's talk about. I mentioned earlier when I introduced you Amazon values, taking risks. And in the 2015 letter, Bezos said he believes Amazon is the best place in the world to fail. Right, let's talk about that. What's the value in building a culture that doesn't only allow failure, but also encourages.

Allows experimentation to take place without punishment? Meaning. And again, a couple of principles here. The first principles is what I call encourage successful failure so that employees know that they can try out new ideas, test them, and even crazy ideas, because sometimes those crazy ideas actually work. And again, we could talk about some examples of where that took place. This idea of everything starts with an experiment. And what Bezos says is that when you do an experiment, when you're testing something, by its very nature you're going to fail. Meaning an experiment means you don't know the outcome. And if you know the outcome, it's not an experiment. So that's that interesting kind of pull and take around experimentation, learning from it. And again, they have some tools that they use to maximize that and minimize the risk that they take. But it's still a risk. I mean, the biggest, I still think probably the biggest failure in Amazon is their phone. So in 2014, Jeff Bezos announced the Amazon Fire Phone. Now think about this.

I don't even remember that.

I know. Nobody does. It was not great. We already had the iPhone, had been around. Right. For seven years. We already had Android phones. Who needed another kind of phone? We really didn't. And it was Bezos pet project. So he's not perfect either. Right. And at the end of 2014, Amazon wrote off $178 million in development inventory cost. At one point, they started selling the fire phone for 99 cents. And they couldn't give it away. Nobody wanted it.

And interesting.

So there's the failure. Where's the success? The success is everything they learned about the phone and how to build one. The audio, the sound, the antennas, the. All that kind of stuff, they were able to transfer to another project that four months after the phone was announced, Bezos got his first demonstration for a cylinder that sits on a table that you can talk to and it answers you. Right? So again, when you think about the echo, the hardware and Alexa, the machine learning software combined together, that the ability for me to stand on the other side of my kitchen and say, Alexa set timer for nine minutes and it understands me and it actually takes action, is pretty technologically sophisticated. And so.

And it really is in an invention, like he took something that was already done and then he created his own category.

Yep.

Right now. Now that wasn't him necessarily inventing it was the team.

No, no, it was the, the team. But I think again, he saw the possibilities early and supported that initiative with resources, money, people, time, etc.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, no, no, please. How.

I think this is the part where, you know, the business owners go, great, well, Amazon has millions of dollars to lose.

Yep.

Right.

Yeah.

And, and I know that in the beginning when he was even trying to capitalize Amazon, he was in major debt. You know, Netflix has, has struggled with that as well. So how do you capitalize on these, you know, how do you feel? Obviously he had to keep his investors engaged and believing in him that hey, it's, you know, we're losing but you know, we're going to have rainbows on the other side. Just hang with me. So what was the secret there?

Well, I think a couple things. One, I think kind of the force of his personality, you know, I've heard somebody describe Bezos as the world's greatest salesman because of that. Right. And even in that first 97 letter he said he laid out what he was going to do and he said, we will make business decisions based on the long term benefits that we see. And really went 180% degrees against typical wall street quarterly earnings for probably the first 10 years. They lost money every year because he was investing in growth. And so the fulfillment network, the logistics that they have now, I actually think logistics as a service will become their next billion dollar business. And so he was willing to suffer the ridicule. I mean in the, in the early 2000s it was Amazon bomb, you know, famous, I think it was Bloomberg headline of the, the future of Amazon could, nobody could see how it could continue to grow. But his ability to think long term and see things long term, where they would go, I think is one of the gifts, skills that he has and has been able to translate that into Amazon success. I also want to mention based on your comment, I often get business owners that I'm talking to say, yeah, but Amazon's so big, you forget they weren't always so big. They literally started, he started on his hands and knees packing books into packages, driving them to the post office. So he literally started like every other business owner. And certainly now you look at it, you know, it's kind of like the, you know, 25 year overnight success type of idea. But he started just like every other business owner. Now how can a small business, you take smaller risks, but you, you, you have to be intentional and you have to, as I mentioned earlier, what I call protect the downside, you know, you protect that catastrophic risk and don't make those kinds of decisions. As you are looking at, what can you invent to help your customers be better, Less friction. All the things that every business owner is thinking about and working toward, how to improve the life of their customer in the area that they operate in.

Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking, you know, all of the clients that we work and we help them scale and you know, they're inventing all kinds of new things for their business, going after new target audience. We are actually inventing a software within our company. We've hired developers, we've been working on it for a year based on our method, the scale it method. And it is a definitely a calculated risk. We are, you know, going into beta testing and all of that. And my vision is it's going to change the way businesses grow and scale. But it definitely is. Right. It's a risk. You're investing hundreds of thousands of dollars. My CFO is like, well, you know.

Can we do this?

And not helping your balance sheet? You know, but I'm seeing it as, okay, this is, this is the whole new level for the company.

Well, and again, I think that's one, I absolutely think it's a great idea. Two, the technology. In fact, I was just doing some writing this morning around the democratization of machine learning and the technology and what you can do now that we couldn't do five years ago, certainly not 10 years ago, that open up the possibility of being creative and thinking differently, not, not being stuck in. We've never done it that way or we've always done it this way. So therefore we can't change. And I think that's where that risk comes of technology developing so rapidly and not being willing to eagerly adopt some of those trends.

Yeah. And how do you. And I've got so many other questions to ask you, but this, this has come up just in you talking about this, where you look at some companies like LEGO or Burger King recently announced. Well, we realized that we got away from what we really are here, that it made a success was the Whopper. And we started investing all in inventing all these other sandwiches. And they were kind of a flop. And now we're behind. So we're getting back to the Whopper or Lego who's been around for 90 years. You know, they really struggled in the 90s, early 2000s, because they started inventing all these things that got them away from the bricks.

Right.

So what, what do you say about those kinds of scenarios?

Well, I, my first comment would be going back to the customer, you know, are you inventing on behalf of the customer or are you inventing because you think it's cool? Or those kinds of things, you know? And do you actually, what is your core business? And again, for Amazon, this obsess over customers is actually the phrase Bezos uses when he talks about customers. And obsess is such an interesting word to me because we talk about customer service and customer focus and customer journey and all those kinds of things. But when you obsess over a customer, it almost can have a negative connotation. Right? Like it's over too much. And from his perspective, it can never be too much. And so deeply understanding the customer's wants, needs and desires allows you to invent on their behalf, not on the company's behalf. So again, there's a balance there. And I think being willing, I would say like Burger King. I've been reading some of those same things. It's like, what took you so long? You know, why, why didn't you make those changes earlier? And I think partly because businesses tend to have a hard time again saying, oh, this failed until it becomes, the pain becomes so much that they have no other, other choice. If they had done that earlier, then maybe that would have helped earlier for them to get back to what they consider to be their core business and what their customers expect of them or want from them.

Right, right. Yeah. Gosh, such powerful information here. So, you know, like you said, they are Amazon's big on sacrificing short term gains to build the long term success. How do we gauge which short term gains to sacrifice?

Again, a couple things. One is certainly having metrics. So if there's anything we know about Amazon, they are a data driven company and at the same time data is really important. And he talks a bit about not having over reliance on data versus gut. And you know, this is where it gets a little more. What's the right word? Squishy or a little harder.

Yeah, but Ariel or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. And again, one of my principles is measure what matters, question what's measured and trust your gut. And the example that Bezos uses is again, I think in the 2007 letter, he publishes his email address jeffmazon.com and encourages people to email him with problems or questions. And he used to read those emails. He stopped doing that a while ago, obviously just from volume. But they actually, Amazon keeps track of those emails and if there are questions or problems or service issues that they receive in those emails that go against the data, meaning the data saying, hey, we're doing fine here. But you know, we've got a probably 15 people over here that saying something's not working. Right. They'll go over to the anecdotal information and dig deeper. And a lot of times the data is being measured, but it's not measuring the right thing or they're not interpreting it correctly. Right. So again, this mindset of yes, data is really important and we've got to question that data all the time to make sure we are interpreting it and making decisions appropriately based on not just the data, but the people, I guess is how I would say it.

Yeah. And garbage in, garbage out, like if you're not asking the right questions.

Yep.

You know, and I love that part about the gut instinct because sometimes you can't really explain everything looks on paper. It's like when you're interviewing someone and there is like they have all the criteria, the skills, you know, they're saying the right things.

Right.

But there's something that's like, I don't know, I'm just not feeling it, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do.

Hard to really put.

It's hard, it's hard to identify what that is. But you feel it. And I think for them you pay attention to that and then start asking more questions. I have to say, one other tool they use that I think is absolutely fascinating to help in some of this area is what originally was called the six page memo. So brief background 2004 Bezos sent an email around to the senior leadership team and said no longer will PowerPoint or slide oriented presentations be allowed in any meeting. So typical right now. So you have a PowerPoint and you go through the bullet points and all that kind of stuff. And what he said was that allows lazy thinking. And so from now on, the person who is calling the meeting asking for a decision, like moving a product forward, getting an approval will be required to write narrative description. And there's a form to it. It starts with a future press release. It has an faq. What are all the questions that people might. And literally the meeting starts with the reading of the memo. It's handed out at the meeting. It is not sent out beforehand. First 10, 15, 20, maybe 30 minutes, depending on how big the decision is, is spent reading the memo and then they open it for discussion. Now what happens? Well, when you have to write something, you probably know this, right? Doesn't it clarify your thinking when you actually have to write it down? Yeah, it's easy to hide behind PowerPoints and it's easy to get interrupted by somebody has a question, oh, I'm going to cover that in a few slots. You know that all of that goes away. I actually used that same process when I was pitching this new company that I started. A group of 15 potential investors. And it was nerve wracking. It was hard to put it together. But I tell you what, the discussion was shortened and much more focused because.

You did not use slides with those.

I did not use slides.

Wow.

Nope. A pitch deck, right?

A pitch deck is a letter, right?

Yeah, exactly. And so writing is really important at Amazon and clarifying your thinking. Well, again, think how counterintuitive that is that if every meeting that someone called they actually had to write something down about the meeting. I doubt we'd have as many meetings.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, exactly. Now you have mentioned that one of your favorite parts of Bezos letters is his philosophy on fearing the customer. What is the value of fearing the customer more than the competitor?

Well, the paraphrase of the paragraph, I can't quote it, I don't have in front of me, but he basically said, I encourage our employees every morning to wake up afraid, afraid of our customers because our customers will love us right up until the point someone else gives them a better deal, a better experience, a better whatever. And so customers are fickle. They want what they want and it really helps clarify the focus kind of back to that customer obsession. And Amazon has three customer pillars today. Wide selection. I think we agree with that, right? The everything store, low pricing, I would say for the most part, maybe not always. And fast delivery. Amazon's hard to beat in fast delivery when you can order. And sometimes I'm in Nashville area so we have a number of fulfillment centers here. I might get the question, do you want it by 6pm tonight? And it's like really, you can do that? So all of those combined together. And what he says is I cannot imagine a day that customers will want less selection, higher prices and slower delivery. And so everything they focus on for the customer so that, you know, is in those areas and they overall do a pretty good job of it.

Yeah, yeah, I know for a while there there was a real struggle. I don't know if that's changed with some of the conditions for the employees getting this stuff out so quickly. Correct.

The question I've been asking a bit is can customer obsession go too far? Right. When you talk about the time, the fast pace, all of those kinds of things and there's no question. And Amazon has done a lot of things certainly over the last few years, they were the first to raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour in 2018. They have several programs that allow Amazon employees, once they've been there for, I think, six months now, to take extra courses that are paid for so that they can get training for a job, not even at Amazon, that they can just take with them. So I do believe they're taking a lot of steps to try and improve that mindset around employees. And there's no question it's hard working in a fulfillment center. I've had the benefit of touring two different fulfillment centers. It's fascinating when you click buy the process that actually gets it to your front door. And they've spent billions of dollars over the years refining that process, I bet.

Now, let's put this in practical use. So you've got your team members, we've got our team members. How do you encourage them to experiment, to take risk without them being afraid, oh, I could lose my job. Maybe this is a bad idea. Maybe I'll be ridiculed, punished. Maybe I'll fail.

I believe employees aren't afraid to fail. They're afraid of the consequences of failing. Just what you said. All of the. Is my career damaged? Is my annual review damaged? Is all of those kinds of things. And it has to come from the top down. And it has to be, I want to say, practical and visible, meaning you've got to create an environment of encouraging employees to take risk. And a handful of companies have worked on this and Amazon, including, and several others, where they actually have a award for the employee that has the biggest failure. And so, again, counterintuitive, right? I mean, what do you mean we're celebrating failure? Well, you've got to be able to communicate in practical ways that it is. Okay, now I always have to stop and say, Amazon has an intolerance for incompetence. So we're not talking about incompetent behavior. We're talking about experimenting. We're talking about trying to learn from our mistakes. We're talking about pushing the boundaries. And when you do that, it's not all going to work. And if you can't get your employees in the position of feeling protected, they're not going to do it. They're going to do some of that quiet quitting that we're hearing a lot about right now, maybe around this idea. I'll just do the minimum required. It's hard to grow as a business when that kind of culture is. I don't care how big or small you are, it's really hard to grow business when that kind of thinking is allowed or springs up amongst your employees.

Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the things that we see all the time, and I've been guilty of it too, you know, as you grow in the early days, you're doing a lot of the work and then you start to build a huge team and things start slipping through the cracks. You panic, you know, you don't want to lose the customer, so you jump in, you become the hero, the rescuer and so forth. And so you create this energy of, oh my God, you know, I'm so afraid I'm gonna, you know, that I am going to get. Make a mistake and then therefore I'm not going to put myself out there. And I do believe it's just a habit. It's. It's a habit. And once we see, and we've seen this, I've seen this over and over again. My own personal experience too, that when we can really encourage the team to step up as leaders to contribute, it makes life so much easier, really for the business owner because it's not you being the rainmaker, the decision maker of everything, that you actually have this team that can take pressure off of your shoulders.

Exactly. And as the business owner, is it really the tasks that you do or the ideas and philosophy and mindset that you have that started the business? And if you get away from that, then the business has a harder time growing. I'm personally in the midst of that right now in terms of business. I started year and a half ago. All the, the detail stuff has been taking me away from the creative stuff, which is what I had to get this thing going in the first place. And so hiring a, an executive assistant, training others to do things that I know I can do probably easier and quicker, but it doesn't help them and it doesn't help me. And that's. There is a challeng challenge there. No question about it.

Yeah.

You know, where do I have, how do I have the time to do that? Well, if you don't have the time to do it, you'll never have the time to do it. And it'll just get worse. Right. As the business grows.

Yeah. Letting go is the hardest thing.

Yes, it is.

It really is. I think it is the hardest thing for the business owner. And so just a couple more questions as we end today. This has been so amazing. How do we measure the success of a test experiment, Risk taking, you call it. Ror return on risk. How do we measure the success of each test and if an experiment is deemed a failure, what's the process of moving forward from that?

So I think we do measure and it really is the return on risk idea is similar to return on investment. Right. So if you are investing something, you want to know what the return is going to be and what's reasonable. So some of the those metrics may be similar, but I think part of the process when you're deciding whether to move forward with something is what are the metrics that we're going to use to determine if this is successful or not successful. And so you have those in place. Part of that original six page narrative or memo is some of that information that you've thought through. How will we tell if this is something we should continue doing or we should kind of out? The other benefit of that six page memo is when you decide to pull the plug, you can go back to that. It's almost a pre built after action review, meaning not just okay, it failed, but why? What didn't we understand when we put everything together that maybe we should have, or we didn't have enough weight on, or we didn't completely understand what can we learn or from that? And with that document already in place, that gives us a great foundation to build and learn from as we move forward. But certainly metrics in terms of deciding and again, looking at Scout, I mean, how much money for Amazon were they investing in this new transportation option? And now with the economy slowing down, with costs going up with all of those things, is that something that looks likely to pay off for Amazon in the near or the far future? If yes, maybe we should continue it. But if no, and I would suggest Amazon may put it on the side for a period of time and come back to it. And again, looking at what are those trends out there? So I look a lot at the robotic stuff that Amazon does, both in their fulfillment center, but in their latest hardware announcements, kind of doubling down on the at home robot idea and again being willing to invest some time and effort in that and trying to move forward. But all of those considerations need to be part of the ongoing process of evaluating where you are with a particular project, product, process, platform that you're building. Building. Right, all of those things.

Yeah. I think it's such a great point that you made. You know, let's not just fail and move on. Let's fail and pick it apart and figure out what did we learn, what didn't work, what could we do differently, what were the lessons here? Right. Because there's so much wisdom in the Failure, Right. So much wisdom in the failure. And I know for myself, when things aren't working, it forces me to, like, really get creative. Really go, okay, we've hit this wall. Where's the door? You know, exactly what do we need to do differently? Right. And it.

Yep.

Because when things are, like, going along, you know, pretty well, we're like, we're coasting, you know, we're working on growing, but we're coasting. It doesn't. It doesn't force us to go, oh, I have to figure this out. I have to figure this out. Right?

Yeah, exactly.

I love this. Well, this has been incredible, Steve. You know, this is such brilliant information. I cannot personally read. Way to read the Bezos letters. I hope you all go out and get this book. It's fantastic. And so, you know, how do people reach you? What's the best way to learn more about you? I know you also do speaking engagements.

I do. And so the. The book website is thebezosletters.com and if you do get the book, there's kind of a simple workbook. I have questions at the end of every chapter because I was really focused on practical application of the principles that are there. And so I encourage you to go ahead and take a look at that. And my primary social platform is LinkedIn. As you said early in the introduction, I'm really active there. So if you reach out there, let me know that you listen to this and really enjoy connecting with you there.

Awesome. Well, so has he read your book, Jeff Bezos? Do you know?

I do not know. I do know. Long story. I won't go into. But I do know that the book was placed in Andy Jassy's hands. Now, whether he read it or not, I have no idea, but. So he's the current CEO that took over from Jeff Bezos a couple years ago.

Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. Well, is there anything that you want to share with the listeners today that we have not covered?

Gosh, there are 14 principles. There's a lot more there. I know we don't have time for it, but, yeah, the book goes through that. The principles. And I've grouped all those principles. There's a lot. I know it is. But we group them into four cycles. Test, build, accelerate, and scale. And actually, I believe that is a cycle that businesses are always going through, whether it's a department, a particular product, or the business as a whole. They're always testing, they're building, they're accelerating the growth, and they're scaling. And my goal in putting all this together was was to help businesses think differently, be counterintuitive in how they think about growing your business. And I hope that you'll find some ideas there that will resonate and help you.

Well, I love it. I love the idea too of always looking at your business as day one. Right. I mean, just the thought of that kind of infuses that excitement and vitality into the business and the team. So anyway, thank you for sharing your insight, Steve.

Oh, my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Thank you for being here. Thanks for all of you listening to another episode of the Scale It Method. And if you want to build a scalable company that can thrive without you and you're ready to get the support you need to, I encourage you to apply for a deep dive scale session with one of our high level strategists. And during your time together they are going to help you get clear on your vision, determine the gaps in your business and the next right steps for you to scale your company. So you just go to myscalesession.com myscalesession.com and we will see you next time on the Scale It Method. Bye everybody.