Mastering the Art of SCALE with Allison Maslan

Burned out, exhausted, depressed, but keeping it together externally. And I was slowly falling apart. I cannot replicate and multiply me, but I can replicate and multiply my offering. I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family and my father was very passionate about his business. But he always just said, you know, Alison, grass never grows under your feet. And that was the language that we had, was always about business. And I loved business. I loved the game of business. I loved helping people. I just knew that the way I was going about it, that there was something missing. We were doing great work with the clients, but I didn't understand the business side of business, the scaling, the, you know, building a team that managed company and really being the CEO, working on the business instead of in the business. So that became the quest.

Welcome to the show, Allison.

Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

I am too, a fellow San Diegan and we're able to get together.

I know. Wow, this is, you know, quite an occasion.

Yes. And I mean, it's awesome because your body of work is the true. It truly epitomizes a serial entrepreneur, which is so exciting for me. And the fact that you focus so much on scale and it's one of the things I talk so much about myself that I am honestly, like, I couldn't wait to just get into this with you because I'm going to pick your brain and hear about it. And I think it's so great for the audience to see how you have not only built all your companies, but what you do today to help all the CEOs out there who are looking to scale and how important it is. Not only that, but you're also a two time author with a bestseller called Scale or Fail, which I don't think enough entrepreneurs really understand the meaning behind scale. Now, the beginning of your career, you started what, 10 companies at the age. Starting at the age of 19. When did you really learn how important scale was?

I actually learned how important scale was after my first. Well, actually in the midst of my first business imploding. So I think sometimes you. Well, oftentimes you have to go through the pain to realize what doesn't work. And that became my exploration to understand how was it that several of my clients back then I had a full service advertising PR firm and I had clients like Ben and Jerry's and Supercuts and Allstate and Charlotte Russe that had thousands of employees. And I'm like, well, wow, the CEO is not standing over everybody and micromanaging and pulling their hair out. You know how I was feeling. And so, you know, really became a quest to understand, you know, how does a company like that operate? How do they, you know, have the systems and processes in place and all of the people doing what they needed to do.

Do you remember the why you use the word implode? Do you remember? Or do you have clarity and do you remember the why that first business imploded?

Of course. I think the biggest lessons are when you live them. And, you know, I had this full service advertising agency and we were doing great work, we were in demand, we were, you know, having these great clients. And as it started growing and growing, because I was a control freak, I thought that I had to have my hands in everything, like a lot of CEOs do, because that's how we start. And then, you know, working around the clock. My daughter was like 2 years old at the time, and I just got burned out, exhausted, depressed, but keeping it together externally and, you know, is in my 20s and kind of traveling all over the world trying to manage it. And I was slowly falling apart and I just was afraid to make a change. I had a lot of people depending on me at the time. And I just remember having panic attacks like on Sunday, just thinking about, you know, all of the loads, all that was demanded of me, and I ended up having, just from the stress and the exhaustion, having a terrible car accident. I actually ran over myself with my car.

What?

Yeah. So, okay, you have to tell me.

How that, how do you do that?

I know it actually is not that uncommon. Believe it or not, but you never jump into a moving car. I was late picking up my daughter from daycare because I was on site with a client and I was in a panic. So I was racing to get her and pulled into the daycare, jumped out of the car. I was just focused on getting her. The car started rolling down the driveway. I jumped in and the car door knocked my legs out from under me and literally pulled me underneath the car so it ran over my legs and luckily stopped there. And I'm here to tell the story.

Wow.

But just obviously that was a massive wake up call and we work with CEOs all the time that often have a wake up call, you don't have to run over yourself to do that. But when you look at your life and you say something is not working. And I knew once I got through that that I couldn't continue to live that way.

Sure. And was that your first company?

That was my first company.

Because you subsequently then had nine more?

Yes.

And a lot of people in that position might say, okay, this might not be the right path for me. Yes, but you stayed on that path. So clearly there was something about, you know, back then, you know, even when I started, the word entrepreneurship wasn't a word. There were business owners and employees and there was not this whole idea behind this whole idea of being an entrepreneur. What kind of compelled you to say, no, no, no, I still want to go on my own, start more companies. I mean, you were a pioneer in a sense, because most 19, 20 year.

Olds, especially women, you didn't see that very much.

Correct.

And so the thing is, is that I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family and my father was very passionate about his business. He was in the women's clothing industry and he built from nothing, over 50 women's clothing stores in the United States. So he was very innovative. And I used to as a little girl go with him from store to store. And you know, I think his passion really infused to me. And I never really, first of all, I couldn't hold a job more than two weeks, so I knew I had to figure out this entrepreneurial thing. But he always just said, you know, Alison, grass never grows under your feet. And that was the language that we had, was always about business. And I loved business. I loved the game of business, I loved helping people. I just knew that the way I was going about it, that there was something missing. We were doing great work with the clients, but I didn't understand the business side of business, the scaling the, you know, building a team managed company and really being the CEO working on the business instead of in the business. So that became the quest for me and really the beginning of building what I call now the scale it method.

Which I am so excited to get into. But I still have a couple of questions before we get there because having had similar my own version of some of not the car running over myself, but the similar experiences of learning how to not micromanage a team and not push talent away and speaking to so many early stage entrepreneurs and CEOs and founders. It is very hard at the beginning to understand that teeter totter of when can you start to trust and let go and when can you bring in if you don't have resources and how do you. And so I think that there's a huge mind gap between early stage, There's a point where you have enough resources.

Yes.

But you at company two and on now, you clearly identified, okay, this was my mistake or issue that I didn't need to address. But you went back to the drawing board. You started again. How did you start? Like, what was one of those steps that kind of helped you really begin that process, to let go a little bit more, maybe trust others, even though you wanted to control and accept that they may do it differently than how you.

Yeah, I mean, there's so many facets of it. And I think, first of all, it starts with the model that you create. So I went into the subsequent businesses saying, you know, it doesn't have to be the Allison Show. You know, what is a model? That's what scaling is. That can replicate and multiply. I cannot replicate and multiply me, but I can replicate and multiply my offering. Like, you have multiple locations. Right. If you were the one that was in ever bowl and you were the star chef and everything had. You had to make every meal, that is not scalable. And that's why, you know, a lot of people that are in the restaurant business, as you know, they burn out. So you have to think about. And if you're already in your business, doesn't mean you need to shut things down. You can expand part of your business into a scalable model. You can have multiple scalable models within your business, but that's where you need to get strategic and think ahead. And usually business owners oftentimes are reactive to what their business is throwing them on a daily basis. And you have to take a step back so that you can move forward and really think, what is the type of business? What is the type of model that I want to have? And then you start to build, you know, the people and the systems and processes and so forth.

And then prior to Pinnacle Global Network, did you have. Outside of maybe your father, did you have other mentors and coaches that you kind of leaned on during those companies?

Yes. Well, after that experience, and, you know, I'm very driven. I've always liked to get every ounce of juice out of every day. That's just. That's my personality. And so after that, I thought, wow, I really. I want to take the toll road. And, you know, as a single mom at the time, and I wanted to be successful. I wanted to be able to take great care of her. I wanted to be able to travel and all of those things. And I was like, I don't want to go through this again. And so from that point on, I've always invested in mentoring and masterminding. So, you know, if. If that's something that I'm going to offer, I've got to be able to.

Walk the talk well, and I think it's a common trait when you start to meet a lot of successful founders, CEOs, athletes, celebrities, people that you aspire and look up to. They all tend to have a mentor coach or a support group, an advisory group that really not just holds them accountable, but helps them see things from a 30,000 foot view because they're in it.

That's the smartest thing you can do for your business, hands down.

And life.

Yeah.

Like children have teachers.

Yes.

And then we become adults and we stop.

Yeah. Because we feel that it is a sign of weakness. Like, I think as a business owner, we have so many demands and so many people depend on us. Right. And you kind of put on this air that you should know everything, but, you know, it is definitely lonely at the top. And who do you talk to but you, like you said, professional athletes, I think, you know, like Wyndham Clark, who was a golfer who just won the US Open. He had a mindset coach that took him from out of nowhere. I think he was in almost 300th place in the world to winning the US Open. You know, Serena Williams, I mean, they have the skill. They have the skill, but for somebody to be able to see them from the outside because you're so close to it and to be able to help you see what you don't see.

Yeah. And that's the key.

Yes.

Because it's, you know, I say this all the time. What keeps me up at night is not what I know or what I can see as my challenges. It's what either I don't know or what I believe to be true. That isn't. Is what keeps me up at night. Because in my business, those are the biggest risks.

Yeah.

Because you can recognize the big icebergs. Right. They're there. You can see them. It's the stuff under the water that you don't know is there that can get you. Having someone whose job it is is to make sure that, you know, take me, Jeff Fenster is going to be the best JEFF FENSTER CEO he can be. And their job isn't to run my businesses, it's actually to make me a better CEO. Like, you can't put them as an individual who has mentors and coaches. You can't put a value on that.

No, it's.

It is truly that. That is one of the cheat codes that I think the most successful have figured out. And the ones who aren't quite there, they're not putting enough weight.

Yeah.

And so that was a lead up to what was your inspiration for starting Pinnacle, because that's a different service business than some of your other ones. And it kind of was like where. I mean, that's the main company today.

Which I've had companies in all different industries, everything from software to real estate to jewelry manufacturing to a homeopathic college. And I love business and I, you know, if I became passionate about something, it would just automatically turn into a business. At the time, not anymore. I'm very happily married, but I would date someone and then all of a sudden it was a joke amongst friends and family was that they would all of a sudden be launching into business because it's just the way that your brain works when you're a serial entrepreneur. And so it was. Here I was, that was my ninth company, and I was ready to do something else. And I remember I was talking to my husband and I was trying to figure out what was going to be the next business. And I just, you know, he said, why don't you just put it out to the universe and see. See what comes to you. And what started happening was that people were just, alison, how do you do it? Can you teach me how you make business look so easy? Can you teach me? And so I started coaching some people one on one, really, just for fun. I didn't know a lot about the industry, even though I'd had mentors and continue to. And then I realized that, wow, there isn't a lot of support. And we've been running our company for 15 years. So at the time, really wasn't a lot of masterminds. But I thought, you know, what if there was something where you had everything in one place? You had your one on one mentor, you had your masterminding, you had your peer to peer advisory, you had your networking, you had your training and all of that because they have so many demands on them, their time is so limited, so how can we make the journey easier? And that's really where Pinnacle Global Network came to fruition.

Fifteen years ago, you launched it.

Yes.

Was the idea to create what you have today, where you have others that are. I don't know if the word certified is the right word, but have gone through your program and can now teach your proprietary method. And so you have. Obviously you've scaled it so well, which is what you teach. But was that the initial plan or has it kind of done what a lot of companies do, which is you started here, but you ended here because that's the route?

Well, you know, when I started doing the one on one, I knew that we needed to have a scalable model. Right. I knew that I could only help so many people. And I. What I really, what I wanted to put into practice and test. These are the processes, these are the pillars, these are the strategies that were working for me, company after company. Will this work on other people? So in the early days, I was really just testing and then it was. And we were seeing success after success after success. And then I said, well, the only way that I would mentor with someone is I only want to work with people that have been there and done it, that have had a great deal of success. So from, you know, after like a couple of years, we started expanding. And so we have several of our mentors. We have 35 now. And there are. Is the. The OGs that have been with us, you know, like I think close to nine years. I think one of my mentors has been. Been with us like 14 years. But they've all run really successful companies. And that is critical. I mean, we kind of search high and low for people that have run really successful companies. They've. They've built big teams. You know, like I was telling you, one of our mentors just took their company public. You know, our VP of client mentor relations, she franchised 40 locations of her company in five different countries. Another one sold 29 of their restaurants to Sizzler and had 1400 employees. So we, our mentors have been in the trenches. They've built big businesses, but they understand, you know, the pains and the challenges. But they're at a place where they've been really successful and now they're creating.

Significance and they're at a place where they also want to help.

Yeah, they're creating significance by giving back. And, you know, so we have our method that we use, our scale it method, just like you have in Everbowl. You have your systems and processes and all those things, but they also bring their wisdom to the table. So when CEOs come to work with us, we assess them and we figure out which of these 35 mentors and that's growing is going to be the right match for them.

Sure. And does it sometimes change? Meaning you start with one and it's time for a new voice or a different style or is it usually you stick with that one.

We have many clients that have been with us for several years because we've been here for so long. We have clients up to like 13 years with us now. And so you'll have. Some of our clients are like, I am never leaving this mentor this is my mentor. Because you build a strong bond and they're standing for you. And then there are others that say, you know what? You've got all these mentors. Why wouldn't I plug into their different genius? And so they may the next year get another one, May next year get another one. And the mentors are so great because they're really. They just want the clients to win. They just want them to reach their dream. So they don't. There's no ego. Which is also really unusual for all these really amazingly brilliant people. They are really there for the client.

Well, part of the ability to scale is learning how to tame and control ego. At least it was for me because that was my biggest issue when early days of my early companies and prevented me from attracting talent scaling. Right. Was my own ego.

Yeah.

Until I learned how to put that to the side. Because it doesn't go away. Right. But it's telling it. Stay over here and don't come out for a while.

Yes.

And only come out in these areas. And that's not easy as a human to do.

No.

If you're not.

It isn't. It isn't. And I think it is a lifelong lesson for as an entrepreneur to learn to basically shut up and let your teams, you know, let them share their creativity, their imagination, and let them to step up as leaders. That's our role as leaders, is to groom and empower other leaders to step up and take your vision and run with it. And so it's, you know, I can still catch myself. We had a. We had a leadership retreat about three weeks ago and where we were kind of going over our year initiatives. And one of the programs we run is called Scale Team, where we not only mentor the CEO, but we also mentor their team for the year. So we are taking our own company through our own medicine Scale team. So one of our mentors who used to be a client, and he just. Anyway, he just sold his companies, acquired like 23 other companies. We brought him in to run this retreat. And apparently I was jumping in a little too much to give my, you know, well, this is where we were. And this is my opinion. And he said, alison, you know, can you step over here? Can we go over there for a few minutes? So I was like, oh, I'm being put in timeout in my own company. But I love that. I love that because, you know, sometimes you don't realize that you're doing it because it's just a habit. It's a habit. The way we've Always operated. And so, you know, you want to catch yourself on that, because if you don't, you will always be the one needed. You will always feel like you have to be the hero to save the day or the octopus with every, you know, your tentacles in every area of the business. And you. You choke the business that way.

No. Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking of my own journey and the journey of so many businesses that I have and friends that are running companies. And you see that so much that. That transition. You know, Kent Clothier has this saying, you know, when you. You got to go from a hustler to a CEO, because most. When you start a company, you're hustling and you're just. By any means, and you're doing every job, and it's not easy to take yourself out, because the type of human that will start the company and do those things has that kind of personality trait. And it's your baby in a way, right? It's another version. And it's a representative of all these things and your ideas and your vision. And it's like, okay, I'm gonna let Alison do this now, and you're gonna do your own way, which could be 10x me, but it's different. And at first I have to say, oh, trust be okay. Mistakes are okay. Yeah, different is okay. And that pivotal moment can make or break companies. And I've. I've had it happen to myself. Do you usually see your clients come before that transition, or are they already on the other side and now they can kind of adopt the scale it.

Method they're usually straddling? You know, we work generally with seven multiple, seven multiple, eight, even nine figure companies. So you. They have, you know, some of them very, very substantial teams. But you would be surprised, or you may not surprise. Even those with substantial teams can still be so buried in their business to the point where, you know, you're afraid this person's gonna have a heart attack or, you know, it's. It causes divorce. I mean, it's a big deal where you're so consumed and it. But it really is. I call it that there's five phases of scaling, and that's what we call the ringleader phase. It's like a circus. And if you find, I always say, a clue to know that you're in the ringleader phase is at night, if you're talking to your significant other or your mother and you're complaining about XYZ employee over and over again, usually are there. And it really is, you know, it's kind of a metamorphosis at that point to say, you know, I don't need to be the hero. And instead of always giving the answers and the solutions and thinking that it needs to be your voice, you want to change the way that you're communicating to things like, well, what would you do in this scenario? How would you handle that? Or why don't you put a plan together and go present it to so and so? Like, everything you do at that point should be about making you unrequired and just put that word all over your house, your mirror, your computer. Unrequired. What do I need to do to become unrequired? But it also means that you need to have the right leaders on the team to have that team managed company so that you can sleep at night and find those people that, that's their superpower to run the sales, that's their superpower to run the marketing. That's their superpower to run operations. You know, whatever it is, that's your role. And then you really can be that visionary CEO.

So you said five. So one's ringleader phase.

No, one is.

No, I mean, one of the five is the ringleader.

One of the five is the ringleader.

What are the other four?

Well, the seeker is phase one. That's where you're, that's a startup. You know, you're out there, you're passionate about your business, but there's no scaling there. Phase two is the pioneer. And that is where you're really getting your hands dirty. You're building that, you're, you're optimizing your products and your services and your, your customer journey. You starting to build a small team, but you're still pretty much the control freak. You got to have your eyes on everything going in and out of the company. And so some, some businesses never get beyond that point. And, but if, if the team starts to really grow, you're going to naturally move into the ringleader phase because you're going to start to have teams. And then the shift to get to phase four, which I call the co creator, and that's where it starts to really get fun. Become fun is where you shift from being a boss to being a leader. You shift to being that controller, to be an empowerer. And when you start to do that, you build a company based on collaboration and you start to see these leaders emerge and they start asking the important questions like how do we increase profits and how do we create a better customer journey? And then you can slowly at this point, just start to step back because your vision and your values are so entrenched in the company, it's like you're there even when you're not there. And then they can start to really blossom. So you slowly start to step back. And then five is a visionary. And at that point, you have choices. You have a business that is fully team managed. You can go to Bora Bora for six months, and it's not only thriving, it's flourishing without you there. And then you could sell the company, you could bring in another CEO that could take it further, pass it down to your kids. You have choices at this point, but the goal for every company is to get to phase five. People always think it's just driving revenue, but if I want to come and buy Everbowl and I find that it's the day you leave Jeff, that the company's gonna tank, then that really is gonna be an impasse. Yeah.

You can't buy it because then you'd have to buy me if I'm not staying in that example.

Exactly.

And it's true. I mean, having tried to sell and failed and sold companies, if you are not irreplaceable.

Yes.

You can't sell the business.

Yeah. And the. And. And I mean, even if you are saying the value of the business goes way down, and so we have this sort of, you know, martyr syndrome, like I have to just be there and work hard, or sometimes business owners feel guilty if they're not working the same amount as their employees and so forth. But really, your job, your role, is to get out. And you want your team to help you do that.

Sure. Now, you said going through those five phases, a lot of businesses don't make it out of phase two.

Yes.

Which Seeker?

The Pioneer.

Pioneer. Sorry, Seeker was four. No Seekers, One Seekers, one Pioneer, and then Ringleader.

Ringleader, Co creator.

Sorry. I'm gonna get it.

That's okay.

So in phase two, outside of, let's say, ego, what are some of those other variables that keep leaders stuck in companies stuck into that phase? Like how do we help more companies that are there see the path?

Well, there's a number of things. First of all, what we've been talking about, getting out of the way, and there's a lot of fear that if I let go, things are going to fall apart. The other thing is, you know, if you. The Pioneer, you're about half a million at that point. And that's the point. About half a million for most businesses is where you start to split at the Seams. So at that point, it's kind of a make or break point where, you know, they, they can't seem to break through. They get really burnt out. And so if they can start to build a team and start to trust those team members and letting go. There's a lot of people at that level that are still doing their own bookkeeping and accounting because they're trying to save money. And so you're actually losing money because unless that's your genius, there's so many things that you don't know. I mean, it would be a nightmare if I was doing our books seriously. So luckily I never did from the beginning. But it's also money mindset is a big deal. And working on your mindset and, you know, if you're thinking small, that's what you're going to get. So what we work with our clients, besides strategy and leadership and, you know, team building and all the different things that we do, we also help people to think much bigger. Like, why not a $50 million company? Why not $100 million? Why not a billion dollar company? And so, you know, we say it's a number. You know, it's got to make sure you got the right model. But you have to see yourself as someone that could create that. Like actually see in your mind as if it's already happened.

Yes.

You know, to start to draw that into your life. So I think that, that, that, that is that line there, whether you know, they're going to move beyond that or not. And then a lot of people get stuck. There's a lot of companies that die in phase three. They'll stay there for decades in that ringleader phase because that's where you're on that hamster wheel and you just can't get off.

And I love how you named those phases because I always talk about your version of phase two for me is that I call it the teenage years, where it's like, you're too young to be old and too old to be young, and you don't have the resources to be an adult, but you look like one and you should be one and your clients expect you to be one.

Yes.

And so it's like trying to figure out, how do I act like an adult, but I'm really not. But sometimes, like, appears. It's just that tough. It's a tough phase.

It is a tough phase.

Sometimes you have pimples on your face and you're like holding it all together and you're like, what am I doing?

Probably one of the Toughest phase. It really is evolution as a human being.

And it's also the 100 hour weeks in the burnout phase and then not seeing progress. And one issue can knock you over.

Yeah.

Or one opportunity can propel you out.

Yeah. I mean that's where I was in that early business where things imploded for me. But I didn't know any better. You know, when you go to start a business, there was nobody going, okay, here you get your business license and these are the steps to scaling your company and having a replicatable model. And here's you know, 15 possible models that you could look at. And you know, none of that really existed.

But is phase two a good time for leaders to call and reach out to you or do they have to get a little bit further? Like do they have to get into phase three at that stage? Like where should they, where do you guys come in and really bring them over? Because obviously phase one, they're too early.

Yeah. We generally are working with business owners in phase three, four and five and you know, that are at least right around that million dollar in revenue is generally at that point you are in phase three. We work with a lot of business owners in that 3 to 10 million and we take them up from there. But we do have some clients in the 150 million range as well. And you would be surprised, but even some companies that are at that close to 100 million range, their team can be a mess. They could be great top line revenue but no bottom line revenue. And you know, they're making more money but on the top line. But there's really nothing left at the end of the day, even for a company that size and culture is a big deal. And, and it all starts with the vision and the vision of the CEO. So even at that size of a company, there's still a lot of work to do.

Well, for sure. I mean, I think until you've lived it, you don't realize that there's always problems and they're different, they change. Right. The problems of a hundred million dollar company are different than the problems of a $500,000 company. But those challenges are there and you have so many layers of a team.

Yes.

And are they all bought in and are they all buying into the vision? Are they all putting their best foot forward? Are they living in their genius or is it a lot of just filler because you needed a warm body at the time? And leadership might be so far removed from some of those layers to not be able to identify and pinpoint like that's the problem.

Yes. Yeah. And, you know, it's also, am I treating the, you know, am I treating the symptom or am I getting to the root cause?

Yes.

And what is the gap keeping me from one phase to the next? And you could be spinning because you, you think it's sales, you think that it's getting more customers, but when we look at it, no, it's actually your customer journey. It's retention because you're gaining, but you're actually losing at the same rate. So that's why you're really not moving forward. And maybe the issue there is operations and so that you need some sort of repeatable system so that these customers are taken better care of. So I think that's, you know, again, it kind of takes us back to why it's important to get the support and the mentorship and so forth.

And I think it's important for those listening to understand that there's a, it's not a math, it's not a number reason why you say, ideally, scale should begin at 3, 4 and 5. The truth is, at 1 and 2, you're not ready to throw enough water through the pipes because you don't have a foundation yet. You don't know if your product's ready or if it's a product base or service model is right. Or whatever that MVP that you're working on. You have to get to a point where you have enough data to say it's time to create repeatable. If you're still architecting.

Yeah.

Scale is a little too early.

Well, like you said earlier in the beginning, it's a hustle. Right. You're just out there trying to. Even, you know, even Steve Jobs in the beginning was trying to sell his own computers. So that is. And you know, you need to get customers, you need to get cash coming in and you, you know, I think a lot of times business owners nowadays, I hear them always talking about I need these rounds of investors and so forth. And definitely there's a time for that and it depends on the type of business and so forth. I've been able to scale without investors. But the thing is, is the best type of revenue to get is sales because you don't have to pay it back. And that means that people are actually utilizing your products and services.

I mean, there's the cliche sales cures all. Yes, it doesn't, but it's a cleat. But it is a, it is a very well known cliche.

It makes it a lot easier. Let's put it that way.

It gives you the ability to test your process. And if you lose customers, but you're constantly selling new ones and bringing them into the fold, you can improve and then retain.

Yes.

And test and put yourself through it. And so I think it's important because a lot of people who watch the show are either aspiring entrepreneurs, new entrepreneurs, and maybe some of them are in that one, two or early phase of three, you know, in your phases. And, and I think it's important being someone who I also focus a lot on scale and I see some companies try to scale too soon and now you've just scaled a massive issue that you didn't know you had and now you have to try to figure out how to undo it. And sometimes that kills you or you never scale because to your point, you're stuck in that three. And so you have to take that self reflection as an entrepreneur all the time. And you know, one of my success formula principles is change ready. And you have to be ready to change you and your business. And that's why I think mentorship and coaching is so powerful and why I'm excited to have you share your model with the audience. Because I think so many business owners and CEOs and leaders aren't utilizing something like what you guys offer. Right. They're not reaching out for that mentorship and help. Because I'm making 10 million, 50 million, 100 million a year. I don't think I need help. Well, LeBron James has a coach. It's just the way you have to.

Or I don't have time. You know, that's, that's a big one.

Which almost means more. You need to coach.

Yes. That's the whole reason.

Let that not be the reason.

Right, Exactly.

Or it's your ego thinking that we don't need that. Or they don't understand my business. But holding people to your. Your genius is scale.

Yeah.

And it's industry agnostic. So your value proposition to all leaders and all business owners is I'm going to help you see through the trees to find a way to repeat your good side of your business and get you to a place that's going to enable you to do more. Right. Whatever that bigger vision is. And I also think a lot of entrepreneurs don't realize that they're entrepreneurs. That's why I think so many businesses fail because they think of themselves in their trade. I'm a restaurant, I'm a chef, I'm a construction worker. But if today you own a business, you're an entrepreneur. It's just what you are.

You run XYZ company.

Correct.

Right. Like I don't. Like I'm the CEO of Pinnacle Global Network. I don't say I'm a business coach.

Correct. Because if you were a business coach, you wouldn't be able to scale Pinnacle Global Network.

Yes.

And you would limit yourself to the thinking of a business coach, not realizing that most businesses, the problems are agnostic. They're the same across the verticals and sectors. Right. You mentioned it earlier. Is it a marketing problem, a sales problem, an accounting and finance problem, a capex problem, attracting talent, Whatever it is, those things are somewhat universal. And if we can help more business owners realize your craft and trade and serial entrepreneurs always get it because you've done so many different industries, single industry entrepreneurs that live and breathe their industry and that's what they've done and that's what they want to do. Like I'm a CPA and I start my own CPA firm and I've been a CPA for 40 years and that's great. But the day I am the head of my own company and start it, I can't just be a CPA anymore. I have to think to your point, like a leader, a visionary, a CEO. It's a different job.

It is. And it's, it's not easy, it's not easy to change the way you've always operated in your business or your life. We are creatures of habit and we a lot of times in our life are working on autopilot and you go to accounting school or even medical school, they're not really going to teach you about how to run a business, how to build a team. I might, maybe, maybe they have an hour class on it, but not really, not much. And so there is the business side of running a business and scaling a business. There's also something else to consider is that once a business, you know, there's a point where you have to re examine even a business that's been scalable and successful. Maybe what you've done has worked to here, but is that product or service profitable here? You know, in the times changing of AI and you know how the world is moving so quickly, will this still be relevant a year from now, three years from now? And so you always have to be nimble in your business and willing to change. And a lot of times in our industries we go to people that are just in that industry. But then you start doing what everybody else is doing and that's where you. There's a Big chance you're going to be disruptive. And so we like to bring people in all different industries together, whether it's engineering or food or health or finance or recruiting. It doesn't, because like you said, we all. They all have teams. They all need to be a leader. They all need a strategic vision. But I'm interested, like, if I'm in the beauty industry, I'm interested in the construction, how they are negotiating their products overseas or how they're handling their customer service. And so that you start to create new ways of approaching your customers and the marketplace.

Yeah. And if you do what everyone else is doing, by definition, you're going to have an average company.

Yes. Or maybe not even be here.

Right. An average isn't going to win because most don't make it. I mean, the reality. Right. Most businesses don't make it. It's hard. It's not meant to be easy because it's not like a sports league where, you know, if you bring up the NBA, there's 30 NBA teams and there's not a 31 that you don't know about in someone's garage over there thinking of something that's disruptive and going to change the whole industry. Like, you know, social media did, for example, or Jeff Bezos did with Amazon, and all of a sudden, you know, completely disrupted how we shop.

Yes.

Yeah. It needed the rails of the Internet. But Circuit City, for those who remember that that company didn't know what Jeff Bezos was doing in his little garage back when. And so it's very hard because there's people are going to steal your great ideas that you've put out into the world and they're going to try to make them better.

Yes.

They're going to come with new ideas that you're not paying attention to because you're running your business. And so you're under constant attack. And that's another reason why I can't stress and why the number one thing I always ask friends of mine or people who come to me and ask for any help, it's always like, well, who do you have in your advisory circle? Who do you call? Because it's lonely being a founder or a CEO. You don't have peers in your organization. You have people who hopefully talk truth to you because they're not intimidated. The worst thing is when they're too afraid to tell you the truth.

Yes.

Like, because they're scared and hopefully your culture doesn't have that. But.

Or maybe you won't listen or you won't Listen.

Or they feel like there will be repercussions if they say something they shouldn't. You know, but the truth is you need to have people who will talk truth to you and help you see that you have mustard on your shirt or that there's a hole there. Right. Or that you're doing something over and over again that's bad.

Yes.

To your point. Of what your, one of your mentors did for you, which is come over here, Alison. And.

Yeah.

Be quiet.

Yeah.

Go on timeout for a minute.

Exactly.

And most companies don't have that.

Yeah.

That's just the reality.

Yeah. We, you know, you, you can't, there's a saying. You can't see the writing on the jar when you're in the jar.

Yes.

And, and so it, and, and you, so you don't see those, those icebergs, but you also don't see potential opportunities. You know, there could be a million dollar opportunity over here, but you're in your box and you're checking off your list and you know, there's no real breakthrough world breakthrough happening while you're checking off your to do list and you're finishing your projects. You as the CEO need to get to a place. And you know, this is what we help business owners do. Building that team managed company so you can be that visionary CEO like Jeff Bezos said, if I wasn't focused on three years ahead, then we were going backwards.

Yes.

And so that's where my brain is all the time with our company as we're expanding globally. That's really where my focus is those things.

And that's critical. And it's very hard to do that if you're in your business every day. And having my own experience, it is not easy to get out. But once you do and you see how the company can grow and scale, then you focus on that. Scale becomes your North Star.

Yes.

Because truly sales, that cliche sales cures all. A strong foundation, scale cures all. It gives you the opportunities to do and achieve all those things. And then when you have those stumbles, it doesn't kill your company because it's built wide.

Yeah. You're more diversified.

Yes. I mean, I love the topic of scale. I mean I could geek out on this all day and I just love that you have built a company around it. And then you do a weekly mastermind as well for anyone who's interested in learning about scale. Right?

Yeah, we do a masterclass.

Sorry, Masterclass.

It is live for anybody that wants to come on and we actually Outline the steps. We go through those phases, but we actually outline the steps on how to get to the next phase, how to build the team managed company and also the 15 scalable models so that you can see what is the right one for your company.

And I guess for those watching who are saying, hey, I want to check that out, how would they?

You just go to scalemasterclass.com scalemasterclass and.

Definitely I haven't read it yet because you just gave me the copy today, but I am anxious to read Scale or Fail.

Thank you.

I love the title.

Yeah.

Because it really is true. I mean, when you get to a certain point, you have to focus now on scale.

Yeah.

It's just a requirement. So before we wrap up and get to the rapid fire, I do have one more question for you. Do you think, and this is not, I don't want to say it's a controversial question, but do you believe everyone can be an entrepreneur, founder, CEO, or is there a personality or type of person that is more suited for that role?

I really don't think it's for everybody. And that's okay. You know, I mean, there are so many things that I would be absolutely terrible at. And so I think you need to just figure out what your calling is. But as an entrepreneur, you have to be a quick start. You have to be able to pivot quickly. You have to be able to have a mind that thinks, oh, my. Not that things are falling apart, but, okay, what's the solution? What are we going to do next? And maybe this is a good thing. And what is the lesson? So, you know, it's the one that gets up faster. And I don't think that everybody has that, you know, and so, yeah, I think, you know, I think people can learn and become, but I do think that there is equality. It seems to be a lot of the entrepreneurs that I know and I'm friends with, we have a lot of the similar add quick start. You know, on the Colby, we're all like the quick starts. Like, like that. And. But it's really good because I surround myself with people that are more operationally focused and they're like, okay, well, this is, this is the vision. This is where we're taking, and that's where Allison wants to go. Let's figure out what are the systems and processes behind her to make that happen.

Yes. You know, yeah, Allison. I mean, I, I love this topic. And I'm going to attend the scale master. I don't say mastermind class.

Masterclass.

Thank you. Scale Masterclass. Because I want to learn more. I can't wait to read your book. You've done such a masterful job of articulating these areas, these phases, these topics that in my head I feel them, I know them, but like the way you can.

But you're living, I mean, what you are doing with Everbowl and now when you're helping these other restaurants build, I mean, you are. That's what you're doing. And so it's a perfect example. You're living it. So it's.

And working my way towards five, right in my. In all of the journeys. Because I can look back at companies I've sold and I don't think I made it to five. I might have gotten out at four and some. I didn't even get out of two. And they didn't work the way I wanted them to.

Yes.

And I can now go back now that I'm using your five class categories. I'm like, yeah, I was definitely stuck in one there for a long time. Didn't move to two or maybe I got to two but didn't get out of it. Or.

But I think it's important, you know, just like we go through our own developmental phases, like you said, this is how we learn.

Yes.

You know, and that's. That's human nature. We're here on this earth to learn and grow.

And had I known about Pinnacle back then.

Well, well, that would have been.

Then. Then we'd be having a different conversation right now.

Yeah. You'd to have. Have millions of ever bulls would be ever bull domination and.

Yes. And for everybody listening, it's like, you know, as the Mathis twins say, exposure leads to expansion. So like, now that we've been exposed to the idea and realization that there is an opportunity to have coaching and mentors on scale. Because a lot of times you hear the word business coach and it's very broad. Right. It's not like, well, what are they going to help me do?

Yeah.

Like, there are areas of business. I'm really good and there's areas I need help with. And so. Okay. But like, you nailed it. You said no, we're going to help you figure out the foundational principles to scale because scale is going to create this.

Right.

And this ecosystem. And I think it's really valuable. And I highly recommend everyone check out at a minimum, the masterclass.

Yes.

Because you'll get a better feel for. Is this meant for my company, my stage? Am I there? Am I not there? Maybe. What do I need to do to get There.

Yeah.

And more importantly, you meet other people.

You can read about us more too on our website, pinnacleglobalnetwork.com and see some stories on there, success stories and our clients talking about their experience.

And I know a few of the people, that's how we met. So I can not, I haven't personally gone through it, but I can personally vouch that I know others who have had a tremendous amount of success with your program with the scale it method. And so I, I can say that with, with 100% authenticity that they have spoken wonders about you and the method and what you've done. And I mean, listen, you've been in business 15 years. I mean, that's not easy.

Yeah.

Especially over the last 15 years when you think about the transition of early Internet being adopted all the way through to where we are with AI and all the 08s and the COVIDs and the.

So much change.

So much change.

So much change. But you know what? I feel so blessed. I love, love doing this work. It is, you know, I feel like being an entrepreneur all these years, all these decades, and now I get to pay it forward. And my, you know, I have a team of mentors that really feel the same. They, they've spent their life as an entrepreneur, so to be able to give back and it's so rewarding to see these entrepreneurs really step into their purpose and, and shine and then get their life back too, so they can spend time with their family and travel and, you know, making a difference at the same time. It's really cool.

Well, it's awesome. Now, are you ready for rapid fire?

Oh my goodness, yes. Bring it on.

Three questions.

Okay.

30 seconds to a minute answer. You stare into camera one, not me.

Okay.

And I'll just ask you a few questions.

Okay.

All right. Number one, what does scale mean to you?

Scale means to me replication and multiplication. So scale means to shift your product or service into a model that is replicatable so it can multiply well beyond you. Because if you as the CEO are still delivering your product or service, if you're still part of that delivery, even though you have a team and it is not scalable, it is not mathematically possible.

What do you mean by a team managed organization?

A team managed organization means that the company can literally run without the founder, without the CEO there, that the daily operations of the company and also as the company continues to level up, that it should be completely independent of the owner, you know, pulling the levers of the company. And it actually. So if you imagine you have a vision and it's you, and you're running that vision, you can only get it so far. But if you have a team that is behind the vision and they are aligned and they are passionate, man, they can take it to where you want to go so much faster and so much, you know, bigger and brighter.

And finally, what's the biggest mistake you see founders and CEOs make?

The biggest mistake that founders and CEOs make is thinking that they have to be the it, the end, all the. The final decision on everything. And, you know, you have your one perspective, the way you've always been doing it, and you feel like that's your story, that it has to be done this way. And because of that, you're actually closing all these doors on possibility and opportunity. So when you can get out of the way and let your leaders shine, then you have many, many brains that can tap into their imagination and creativity and actually make it maybe even better than you had ever, you know, conceptualized.

Well, Alison, this was awesome. I honestly think the audience got so much value just hearing about scale in a different way because it's not talked about enough. A lot of entrepreneurs I get the privilege to have on the show, we talk about different areas of entrepreneurship, but scale specifically, it's just kind of a quiet topic.

It's an overused word. Yes, it's an overused word because I feel like it's misused. People just equate scale with fast growth. But it's actually creative strategy.

Very well said. Creative strategy. Yes. And when you do that, right, then all of a sudden you achieve your business achieves the level of success you were striving for. And I think that it's such a great thing that you have built a organization around helping business owners and CEOs and founders do that. And you've done it for thousands of different individuals and companies over the years. So you're breadth of experience and knowledge. I mean, I can feel how passionate you are about it and just in the conversation. And I want to thank you for that service you are providing the world because as someone who wants to help as many entrepreneurs be successful as we can. And I think you're right when you said it earlier. When you achieve a level of success in business, the next phase is you kind of want to help others because somebody helped you. Right. Like, that's really what it is. Like, I'm not where I am, but for the help of others who have helped me.

Yeah, I mean, someone told me years ago that was a mentor of mine, he said the secret to happiness is helping other people.

It's, I mean, it's not money. Yeah, it really, you learn that it's not money and it's not accolades. It's when others and you're helping them and you watch their growth and you're part of their journey as well. And you get to be a member of the cast of that movie and you feel it because you get more excitement, more opportunities. And it's just the, like you said, I mean it's one of the keys to being happy and early stage you think, oh, once I make a certain amount of money or my business does this and then you're not as it didn't change anything, so then you find what actually does. And so I truly think this was so awesome. I think that there's so much value for all of us to learn from you and your organization and the other 35 mentors that work with you because as a team managed organization, I'm sure that their DNA is all over the place. And I can't wait to join the masterclass one of these weeks and hear more and read your book.

Thank you.

And be a bigger part of your world and continue to build the relationship. And I just want to thank you for coming on and sharing not only your story, but these lessons for our audience because I think everyone can take a moment and do a self reflection and realize I am in one of those five categories and which one am I in and where do I want to go and how am I going to get there? And hopefully this gets everyone's mind thinking and there's going to be action, right? That immediate action that says, okay, yes, I'm going to start to move towards that.

Yeah, we're all, I mean, you want to have clear cut strategy, but then we need to get moving and make things happen. So yeah, I, you know, this has been so much fun. This is my favorite topic. I could talk about scaling all day, every day, ask my husband when his eyes start to glaze over. But I'm also excited that you're going to come speak for one of our events.

I would love to. Yes. Thank you. And it's a privilege. It's an honor. You know, I love all the things you're doing and I can't wait to be a part of that and hopefully get to meet some more of the community members and.

Great.

And thank you. And again, everyone, please don't just take the knowledge and put it away and say, okay, that was really cool and then do nothing different. Right, because progress and success happens when we take action. And so you now have another perspective of maybe some things you need to be doing. At a minimum, buy this book at number two, attend the weekly masterclass, see how it can help you, and take action. And that's what entrepreneurs that are successful actually do. Those who do do. And tomorrow won't be here. It's always a day tomorrow. So take action today. And Allison, thank you again for coming on.

Thanks, Jeff. This has been great.

Hey everyone. First, I want to thank all of you for tuning in. And if you guys haven't heard about my new book, Relationship Bank Account, click the link in the Show Notes or search the title on Amazon. This book is packed with all my secrets to success in both relationships and life. Make sure to pick up a copy and if the book helps you on your journey, let us know by leaving a review. I appreciate all of you and can't wait to see you on the next one.

It.