SCALE: Steps to Grow the Business - Allison Maslan

A lot of times when business owners come to us, they're already so buried. And this idea of scaling and growing bigger, they are afraid of that because they're like, I already have no life. Now if I scale, is this going to kill me? It really is creative strategy. It's not about the hustle because that will run you into the ground.

Plug into the minds of the world's cutting edge innovators, visionaries and thought leaders who are rewriting the rules of sales and success. Your time to make an impact. I am your host, Jason Mark Campbell and this is the Selling with Love podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Selling with Love podcast. I'm here with a woman who has been named one of the 10 women entrepreneurs to watch by Forbes magazine, is currently the CEO of Pinnacle Global Network and her book Scale or Fail is Wall Street Journal's best selling book. Has been working with business CEOs, mentors and has helped over get this 150,000 founders and leadership teams scale their companies. I'm so excited for her to come on the show and talk more about what does it take for you to make the decision to scale? What are the typical pitfalls and big decisions you need to make if you're going to be going big and you're going to be making a massive impact? And we're going to make sure to resource anybody who is on this journey with the right expectation and some of the things we need to ask ourselves to make the plunge and to truly make some world transformation. Allison Maslin is joining me on the show and I'm so excited for her to be coming here and sharing her secrets. If you haven't heard from her before, you definitely will want to go and check out the Scale It Method podcast. That's going to be a place where you can interact regularly and see more from the Pinnacle Global Network. I'm so excited for having you on the show. Welcome, Allison. It's a pleasure to have you.

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

What a ripple you have created through the work you've been doing and all these people you've been supporting. And so I maybe want to almost start with what I would call like a State of Leadership 2025. I mean, you work with so many of these organizations, you ment them. What's the landscape look like now? What's like the prevailing sentiment?

Well, you know, I think that we are definitely in a new era for sure with AI on the scene and the only limit to growth is your creativity. I think that's where we're sitting right now, is that this is the time to jump in and this is definitely the time to scale. So, you know, we're very excited about it. And you know, I've been an entrepreneur for over 40 years, so I've built 10 companies of my own. And like, I'm still excited about it today. Like when I first started, probably more now.

It is a pretty exciting time with these new tools. And I'm glad that there's this kind of, okay, your creativity happens to be the key skill to kind of develop. Creativity always kind of played a small part, but it seems like we had to learn a lot of technical skills and a lot of administration to be able to bring our creation to life. What you're saying in this new era is that now all these things seems to be almost solved. Is that, is that the reality of the world now?

Well, I don't know about that. I mean, maybe at some point someone still needs to pull the levers. But ideally, as you are building a business and what we do is we help CEOs build a team managed company. And what that means is that they get out of the weeds. So they shouldn't be pulling the levers. If they're going to truly scale, they need to not be the implementer in the business. They need to be the visionary CEO focused on where the future is going and the team is focused on today.

So for someone who's tuning in as this visionary leader, what are some of the activities that are often neglected? For somebody who's gotten to that point where, okay, like the money is coming in, they found product market fit, they're looking to get themselves outside the business. But they might have been holding on to this like, integrator, which is like you're executing, you're managing. But there's key activities that I find a visionary leader needs to kind of focus more on that might be neglected, what are those key activities?

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's an evolution, right? We have five phases that we take business owners through to get to that visionary CEO role. So it's definitely like, you know, when you are a toddler to the teenage years that are really uncomfortable, but we need to go through them because that's how we grow and that's how we learn, and then young adults and so on. And like you said in those early years, it's scary to let go. We are creatures of habit as human beings and we do what we do and we do what we know and we're like no, this is how I've always done it. And so I don't trust my team. And so therefore, I want to be cc'd on every email. I want to have my eyes on everything going in and out of the business. And that is the recipe for choking the growth of the company. And that's where so many business owners get stuck. Even as they grow and they have 10 employees, 20 employees, 100 employees, they still feel the need to have their hands in every part of the business. But that just is not sustainable. There's no way that you can keep your arms around everything. And you brought these people on to help grow the business. And so you're really stifling their skill set and their brilliance by not letting go.

I've noticed frustrations from founders or visionary leaders with an expectation of seeing the people they've hired to work just as hard as them. Is that realistic to expect from your team?

Well, I think that, you know, look, as business owners, there's so many days that we're in before anybody starts and we're working late into the night. And you're not going to expect that from your team. I mean, they have a life. It's not their business. However, when you have a passionate team and you are really clear about your vision for the company and you're holding that vision and you're attracting people that are aligned with that vision, they feel on purpose and they feel appreciated and they're empowered. I'm telling you, these people work so hard, like they're so committed to make the vision a reality, and oftentimes they can do it better than you. You know, if you would just get out of the way.

Do you have like a sort of self assessment some person can do if they realize they're more in the way than they might even be aware?

Yeah, I mean, this is what we help our clients with. And we do have assessments, some self assessments that we do take them through. And it is rather eye opening because they're like, oh, God, yeah, I'm doing that. Oh, no, yeah, I'm doing that. Oh, that's me. And so I think having a mentor that is not emotionally connected to you, like if it's your spouse or your friend or your, you know, your business partner, you've already got all of those triggers. And so if they're going to tell you that you're in the way, you're just going to get defensive. But if you have somebody that is standing for you and you know they want you to win and they're able to say, hey, Jason, can I just be your coach for a moment here? Because what I'm noticing is that you're jumping in and you're constantly feeling like you have to have the last word. And when people are coming to you with ideas, you're telling them that it won't work. So therefore they're going to stop bringing their creativity to the table and you're gonna go, okay, yeah, you know what, you're right. I am doing that. So I think that we have to put a mirror up to see what we're doing. Because it's one thing when we're small and it's just, you know, ourselves or a few people, but once your team starts really growing, you gotta step up as a leader and it's a very different role. And for me personally over the years, like, I had a lot to learn to become a better leader, and I'm still learning.

Do you get more excited about the early stages in a new business or do you find that there's certain stages that you found yourself, like, oh, wow, when, like, maybe the first time it was tough, but now you've done it a couple times. These are the favorite phases for the organization.

Yeah, we work mainly with business owners that have hit that seven figure or eight figure level. And the reason that I really love working with these business owners is, number one, there's a lot of support out there for the startup business owner, which is great, and you need that. And I didn't have that in the early years and I wish I had, but once you get to that seven figures, a lot of people think, oh, you've made it once you're there. Well, no, you now have this team, you have way more expenses, you've got hr. You know, it's a lot more complex and there's a lot more to lose. And so I call it the forgotten entrepreneur. It's like, okay, I got here, now what? But they also are big enough where they're really ready to scale. You know, in the early years of the business, you're just trying to get clients. You're just trying to figure out what your products and services are and you're trying to figure out what your avatar is. Now once you get to that higher level, you are systemized somewhat. Still got a lot of cleaning up to do, but now you can start adding other revenue streams. You can start replacing, placing yourself and really building that leadership team and starting to, you know, slowly step back and be more of the visionary.

I noticed when you're trying to find product market Fit and you're at the early stages. There seems to be like quite a unique process you need to go through based on your industry, what kind of product, what kind of service. So it seems much more, how would you say, like custom made path needs to be created for you as a startup person. And what I feel is when you're at that seven figure, early eight figure, there seems to be almost like a more standardized path of what's required. Like you've notified like, okay, better systems leadership team and scaling operations. It seems, I don't want to say fully cookie cutter, but it seems that there's these predictable things that if you put these in place, kind of helps you get to the next phase. Is that a their assumption?

Oh, definitely. I talk a lot about this. In my book Scale or Fail, we work with five pillars in the scale it method and it spells out the word scale. So the S is strategic vision. You've got to have a clear vision on where you're going. It's like if you get into an Uber and they don't know where to take you, you're not going to get there. And most business owners, if you ask them what is your clear vision, like, paint me a picture, what does it look like three years from now? Many of them just don't have that clarity. And that's a big part of the issue right there because that's your role as the CEO, as the founder, is to carry that vision. And that's how you're going to attract the right people to you. So that's number one. Then the second pillar, which is the C in scale is cash flow. That's the oxygen of your business and that's marketing, sales and then the organization of your finances. That's important too because when you're smaller, you could have a bookkeeper, but as you grow, you need a full accounting team. You might need a cfo. And you know you got money coming in, you just gotta make sure that somebody is really managing that. And then you've got the A in scale, which is alliance of the team. And that's what I was talking about before. You've got to get a team aligned behind the vision. And so that's hiring, that's culture, and that's really empowering your team. Then leadership is the L in scale and that's you as the founder. And that is constant work. And a saying I like is new level, new devil. So when you take your business to a level you've never been before, oh, there's just all kinds of Fun surprises that you haven't experienced before. But this is how you learn. And if you aren't personally working on yourself, your mindset, you know, your personal resilience, then even if you have a five, $10 million company, you can sabotage it because of your own old programming, you know, and then it's also how to communicate. If you're annoyed with your team, you can't be sending them angry texts like you need to really know how to empower somebody instead of, you know, bring them down. And then the E is execution and that's where everything rolls out. That's your KPIs, that's your accountability and that's making sure that your plan that you started with in that vision that you're aligning up with, that at least lining up and ideally surpassing that. And so making sure that all those pillars and that runs through every industry doesn't matter if it's food, health, recruiting, engineering, they have all those five pillars have to be shored up to take your business to the next level.

Well, I have a confession which is I've currently found myself in this position of joining an organization as what you would label as an integrator. And I'm seeing these functions and I'm like, yep, yep, yes, that's exactly what is required and I've never seen that acronym, but it's so helpful to be able to look at this and to be able to resource towards that. Now if you're bringing in an integrator, if somebody is maybe hesitant towards bringing someone like an integrator in, what are some of the key things they can look for, be aware of that can make sure that they're not shooting themselves in the foot by bringing someone who does take on a lot of responsibility.

Yeah, well, I mean you can't have everybody be a visionary in the company because then you won't get anything done. So you just have a lot of ideas. And so you do need people in the company that are going to be implementing. I mean you can have your visionaries a lot of times are more right brained. I'm a little of both right and left brain, but you'll often have that. And then your integrators, implementers are often more left brain and they're good with systems, processes and accounting operations, things like that. And so as you grow you will have those people, maybe they're project managers, maybe it's, you know, as you grow it could be an operations manager or a coo, chief of operations. And then we have on our team, he is a chief strategic officer, it's cso. He's my second in command and he really is that integrator, although he's also a visionary. So when you get the people that are real leaders within the company, like a CMO or, you know, which is a chief marketing officer or a sales vp, like they are integrators, but they're also visionaries because they're running a department and they've got to inspire those people that are working with them towards the vision. But the second in command, my cso, he really runs the day to day of the business, which allows me to come on a podcast like this, you know, at seven o' clock at night. So.

It sounds to me like for the visionary leader, when I'm looking at your scale acronym, the role that the visionary leader or the person that's a founder, the pillar, they almost seem to keep a hold on here is the strategic vision. Is that a fair point to make and is there more to it after that?

Well, yes, they are definitely making sure they have their eyes on all departments, really, and they're making sure that the vision that the team is carrying is lining up with the vision that the founder has. So if I say, okay, I have this idea for a new revenue stream, then first we're going to discuss it and we're going to weigh all sides and we're going to find ways to survey clients and see if this is something they even want. I think that you talked about product market fit often. We think it's a great idea. We need to see if your prospects would be interested in that. And then if it's all a go, then they're going to put the team together to make sure that it happens. Now, it doesn't mean that I'm not involved. I am involved in the early stages of it and then I have my eyes on things along the way. But I'm not in it, I'm not developing in it, I'm not creating sales pages, I'm not, you know, putting widgets together and so forth. But it is definitely my influence. And then, you know, your integrator is just going to make sure that the pieces come in and they come in on budget and on time and all those important things.

Well, you are on a Selling with Love podcast, so I do want to make a little inquiry into your journey and I'd be curious to know if sales has been something you've continuously embraced as a quality, as a leader. Is it something you had reluctance when you first started? I'd be Curious to understand your relationship with sales.

Yeah, well, you know, I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family, and my father built a chain of women's clothing stores across the US and so I used to go with him to store to store, and I watched and observed him. And he was very passionate about helping people and making a difference. And so as I got into business, and obviously selling is a big part of it for me, I had to be very aligned with what I was selling. Like, if I didn't believe in it, if I wasn't excited about it, I just couldn't talk about it. I couldn't make myself do it. So, number one, it had to be very much on purpose. But, yeah, I was a single mom, and I didn't have any support. So it was either figure out the selling thing or get a job. And I didn't want to get the job. Actually. I couldn't even really hold a job. So let's be honest there. And so I was pre Internet. I had an ad agency here in San Diego, and I went door to door with a, you know, a portfolio of brochures and business cards and things like that. And I literally went into business buildings and would walk in and try to talk with the owner or the marketing director. And I got lots of rejection. Lots. I had someone ask me for my business card back one time. And then I used to do cold calls. I would, this is really gonna. You're gonna see how old I am. This is with the Yellow Pages. So I would open it up and I would go, okay. And I would just go, like, you know, I would just pick a spot. Okay, we're calling hospitals today. And it wasn't easy for me to do, but I knew that if I could just get a meeting with somebody, that's what I was selling. I wasn't selling the thing. I wasn't selling the TV commercial or the brochure. I was selling getting a meeting. And so I played a game with myself that I could not get off the chair until I made 10 calls. And I did that every day. And I got some of my biggest clients in the agency from that. So Charlotte Russe, which had, in the United States, hundreds of stores. They were much smaller at the time. Hospitals, super cuts, you know, all these from cold calls. So then, you know, as we got the Internet and all that, now it's really just about connecting with people and having a great conversation.

Well, I'm so happy to hear that, Alison, because I have my experience, which is I was booking appointments for realtors So I was an inside sales agent, and I was a part of Mindvalley. And Vishen, who is the founder, would often share a story about how he would be doing cold calls to lawyers to sell software to them. And I've noticed a lot of successful people have had some sort of experience in some very gruesome sales. That's like a high volume, high rejection level. And I'd just be curious to know how much do you feel that that experience has helped you build resilience for being a leader and any other role that you've played after that?

Oh, yeah, for sure. It's the persistence. You know, I've played the long game. And I was actually thinking about this recently. I mean, this is my 10th company, and I've been running it for 16 years. And, you know, we've grown along the way, but we're just. We're having massive growth the last few years, and we are expanding globally. So if I had been impatient and cut it short, I wouldn't get to experience all the massive transformation that we're creating in the world with all of these CEOs and businesses. And I think that we live in a world where people have a focus about three seconds. So it's hard for people. They want that instant gratification. I remember one time I was trying to get this client, Charlotte Russe, and they were a clothing brand, and I had grown up in the women's clothing industry, so I felt like, okay, I could talk to them. So I got the owner's number. It was actually three brothers, but I got one of the brothers phone number. And I just kept calling and calling and calling, and nobody was calling me back, so I just kept calling. And then one day I get a call from Larry Lawrence, the owner, and he said, I'm calling you so that you will stop calling me. And anyway, I got an appointment. They ended up becoming my biggest client. I was able to buy my first home from that. And so, I mean, that was a long time ago. And we laugh about it. And he doesn't even remember ever saying that, but I'll never forget it. And I think that that, that time was so important for me to see that, okay, there's going to be a lot of no's, but it really just means no, not right now. It doesn't mean no forever.

Fact. And so, Allison, I have one question. I'd love to go down a path with you here, because when an entrepreneur or somebody goes towards the stage where they're truly scaling, oftentimes the reason somebody goes into entrepreneurship is because they're looking to find maybe financial freedom. They're trying to make an impact. They want to do something that's fun. But it seems like when you start scaling, there is a phase that requires a lot of energy and you have to go back into the trenches. I don't know if this is a false assumption or like, is there a real sacrifice and decision you need to make if scale is the choice you make?

I mean, you know, a lot of times when business owners come to us, they're already so buried, and this idea of scaling and growing bigger, they're just. They are afraid of that because they're like, I already have no life now if I scale, is this gonna kill me? And yeah, if you do it the way you're doing now, which is just not even possible, there's no room for growth. But if you structure it in the way, you know, it really is creative strategy. It's not about the hustle, because that will run you into the ground, but it's the way you build that foundation. It's the way you put up those walls and all of the beams that are needed to support the business. And that's having, again, the right people, the right systems and processes that you're marketing to the right people. Avatar, that perfect fit client that you're speaking and messaging that they can hear you and that you have. Like, for us, with the Scale IT method, our mentor team, they have all built very successful companies. We have close to 40 mentors, and some of them have taken their company public, had thousands of employees. Like, they're very, very experienced. But I'm not going to have them come on and just go rogue with the clients and just say and do whatever they want. We have a system. We have the scale IT method. Our clients get that experience. They get the systems, the processes, the tools, the softwares, and they get to share their brilliance and their wisdom of all these years in business. But within a system that we've built, and because we have that, I can sleep at night and. And know that everybody is being taken care of. If I didn't have some sort of signature process throughout the company, then that would be very hard to scale, and you would have things breaking and falling apart all the time. And then you, as the business owner would have to come in and save the day.

It sounds like when you make that decision to scale, you have to first, like, follow the proven path, which I see is like the Scale IT method is one of the proven paths that it's like, if you follow this, like call it an operating system. It gets you through the scale and it has to be combined with some sort of secret sauce. And when you have those two together, it sounds like you're basically baking something that might be making a ripple, a large impact and puts you on the right path.

Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of business owners that come to us, they've already created great success and you know, we have just interesting industries I'd never heard of, you know, like calibration companies and you know, just really fascinating businesses and they have done well. But it's like when you want to scale, you have to restructure the way that you're working. It's that saying what got you here won't get you there. And that's really in every part of your business and your life. You know, the vision you had when you were smaller, that's got to change your cash flow and your marketing, your team's got to change. Everything has to evolve. And so as long as the business owner is open to making that change and getting out of the way, they can have the most incredible, impactful, life changing, flourishing company.

Alison, I appreciate the insights we got to discuss around leadership and a few topics on the side as well. I'm so grateful that you're guiding a lot of people that have that product market fit, that are looking to scale, that you're giving them this methodology. And you've given me a lot of things that I can take on and work with to continue down the journey of this new role that I'm on. And I'd be curious both for myself and for the listeners who are maybe in this stage where they're making the decision to scale. I'm going to encourage everybody to grab scale or fail as a book. Are there other additional resources you would point people towards?

Yeah, there are a few. First, my website, which is pinnacleglobalnetwork.com and you'll learn all about the mentoring we do. You can even read about the mentors and their backgrounds and so forth. And then we also offer a complimentary scale session where we really look at your business and we look at those five pillars and see where are the gaps, what's holding you back, which pillars are strong, which pillars are weak, and what are the steps that you need to make to go forward. And that is you can get there just from the website or you can go to myscalesession.com Alison, you are on.

The Selling with Love podcast. So before I let you go, I do have to ask you one question, which is, what does selling with love mean to you?

Well, to me, selling is sharing. And I believe that everybody is born with gifts, and there's no better way to share those gifts than through business. And so it would be painful for yourself and others to hold those gifts to yourself because there's so many people that are up late at night going, where is that thing? Where is that person? So I would say, you know, selling with love is really just sharing those gifts that are meant to be shared.

Well, Allison, thank you for your gifts, your presence, and for everything you've shared on this podcast. Very grateful for the time we got to spend together and the insights I was able to capture. And I know that is the tip of the iceberg. I'm going to go check out Pinnacle Global Network and see some of the sessions that are available to do a bit of an audit. Think that'll be useful for myself and I think for any other person that's listening in and is considering mentorship, which is highly recommended. If you are navigating towards the unknown and you're at that size of business, you don't want to do it alone. You don't have to. You have organizations like Allison's that are guiding people on the right path. So thank you for what you've created, thank you for what you've shared, and it was an absolute pleasure to have this conversation on you about leadership and a few sparkles of sales in the process. Well, it was an absolute joy. So thank you so much.

Thank you. This is has been awesome. I really appreciate it. Great connecting with you.

I am your host Jason Mark Campbell, and this is the Selling with Love podcast. Got an idea for an app with base 44. You don't need to know a single line of code. Just describe what you want and base 44 instantly designs the interface, builds the database, and connects the logic for you. Whether it's tracking invoices, planning meals, or managing a whole team, you can build at the speed of thought and customize it as you go. Stop waiting on developers. Start running your business smarter with Base4four. Visit base44.com and turn your idea into a live app today.