MIKE GANINO: How To Create an 8-Figure Company Culture

I'm going to introduce to you Mike Gagnino, who is a culture expert for all of you that are building teams. Even if you have one employee or you have one or you have 100, doesn't matter. You've got to build a culture. So Mike Gagnino is an expert in this realm. His radical culture methodology fuels successful employee experiences, drives leadership development, and boosts customer service at companies and organizations all over the world, including Uber, including US Foods. We are so blessed to have him here. He's the former chief operating officer and partner at Protein Bar, where he grew the brand from a mom and pop smoothie smoothie bar to all over the country. A private equity funded newsmaker. Mike, come on over. Come on down. Yeah, let's go ahead and move this chair. So good to see you.

Good to be here.

Yeah. I'm excited to have you here. Are we all good in getting Mike on camera here? We're good. All right. And I want to just show this photo here of everyone. See you on the COVID of this magazine. And so how's it going?

It's good.

Good.

I wore the sweater vest so that I could also experience hot flashes with you.

Okay, good.

So you aren't alone. I'll be there with you.

Yeah. So we can't have really the air blowing in here because it gets loud and impacts the sound. So, B, we're gonna all be sweating by the end of the day. But you guys don't care, right?

Means we worked.

This is true. We earned it. So I saw you sitting back here. Are you enjoying this?

Yeah, it's so fun. And it's, you know, often I'm keynoting or I'm doing a workshop. And so, you know, the instant feedback is really cool and being able to see what people are saying, what matters to them.

So that's pretty fun, right? I mean, when you're on stage, you just have to try to read their mind, which is you're usually wrong. Right. So but you get like the one.

Person in the third row who has a stink eye and you're like, what am I doing wrong? Really?

It's just like, focus on them. And then they're the ones that come up to you later and go, wow, you really impacted me. They were thinking, and you're thinking that they're miserable. So anyway, for all of you giving speeches. So I brought you here today because we have about 150 pinnacle global network members. They're business owners from all over the country. And some of the biggest challenges they have is with the team with employees. We hear that all of the time. And so let's talk about, explain what is company culture at its essence?

Sure. And there's a lot of things out there that are company culture. And we see sometimes the companies that are popular, we're like, oh, it must be ping pong table or beer taps. And that's what's in the news with Google and even companies like Uber, where it's become a perk.

I know. I was like, where am I going to fit the ping pong table? I was trying to figure out what corner of the office that was gonna.

Go, yeah, yeah, you don't need it. That's my message. You don't need the ping pong table. But anyway, and I think companies should have fun stuff. So if your team loves to go do fun things, then certainly go do the fun things. But that doesn't mean you have a great culture. You know, it's like a dinner party. This is the analogy I always use. I think culture is like a dinner party. And your job as the leader is like hosting the dinner party. You've got to get the table right and the tablescape right and get the flowers right, set the menu correctly, and then you're in charge of how people feel when they're in your space. You're in charge of whether the guest list is correct. And you've created an environment where they'll talk to each other. And those are essentially the co workers at your company are gathering around the table. And if you've ever been to a party where you sat down at the table and you could tell, oh, this couple was having some kind of talk before we got here. That's what culture is. Culture is that thing that's really.

Or I've been the couple that have had the talk.

Yeah, I know that one. I know that one. And so culture is really. It's all about the conditions in the room. It's about getting the conditions right for the results you want.

I love that.

And it's when I speak with organizations, even small ones with five or six employees, all the way to huge corporations, when they tell me about, sometimes people will call me and say, hey, can you come work on culture with us? And I would say, sure. Exactly. What are the results you're not getting? And they're like, we don't know. Just, can you tell us do we need an open office space or what's going on? And I always think you've got to tie it to a business result.

Okay.

Because the results you're Getting are a reflection of your culture.

Right.

Whatever's happening in your business is a perfect result on the conditions you created. And so that's what culture really is. It's about getting the conditions right. It's about saying, this is what this party's about, and this is how things are going to go here.

So you have to think about the results you want and kind of work backwards. Yeah, right.

Yeah. And it's never about changing your culture just to change the culture. It's about changing the culture in a way to drive a different result that you want.

Okay.

You know.

All right, so. And so what? So what is. Why is it important?

Sure.

I mean, why. What is it about company culture that's so important? It's become a buzzword. Right. It's like, in style, to have a strong company culture, whereas before it was just, you know, look, this is what you have to do. Listen to me. That's the corporate. Right. Regime.

If you want the job, you'll do the work.

Yes.

Yeah. You know, I think what's changed? I think what's changed there. I talk a lot about millennials, too. That's a topic people always say, oh, you're talking about millennials. This must be something I need. And I think the thing with millennials is that they're not that different than every generation before. They just have different means than generations before had. For example, my mom, my grandma. If they didn't like the way working with you was, they didn't have many options. You know, my family's from a small town in Iowa originally. And so you either worked at the pig farm or you worked at the grocery store. That was kind of your choice. So if you didn't like the pig farm and you didn't want to be in the grocery store, oh, well, today we can do all kinds of things. I mean, this community has gone and created businesses out of nothing.

I know. Amazing.

And so millennials today have those choices. They can go on and say, I'm going to create a social media agency. I'm going to go into real estate.

Created with our children.

Yeah. So they have options that we didn't have before.

Yeah, because we do. I mean, I think, like, for myself, my parents grew up in the Depression era. Right. So it wasn't really about doing what you love. Although my father loved his business. But, you know, it wasn't like you were raised that way, that anything is possible. Right, right. And so then when we have that, this younger generation saying, you know, I'm gonna. I want to wait Till I find that thing I'm passionate about. You're like, well, when are you gonna start working?

And I think that's why they need. They need groups like this and they need to be part of Pinnacle is because then it helps them say that passion project. How do you actually make it happen?

Yeah.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna plug the program and say that that's why these programs are so great, especially for a younger generation coming through, is because it will give you the resources and tools to say, now I think I know how to go do the dream I had. But it's changed. And there's so much competition for. And probably a lot of you out there know this. There's so much competition for talent that that's why we see ping pong tables and, you know, tennis matches and happy hours is because, you know, eventually someone's going to be able to match how much you're paying. So what else can we do to sweeten the deal here and what can we do with vacation, unlimited vacation and these things? Because the contract has changed at work and people have choices, and so that's what's changed. And then the benefits of it. I mean, I don't know that we could look at a company and say, hey, this company is very successful and it's got a really bad culture for very long. They can survive for a little while, but they can't last very long. The other thing that's changed is if I don't like working somewhere, I can go on Glassdoor and talk about it. If I think that even your small business is not a place for great people to work, I'm gonna go talk about that around town. I'm gonna post it Facebook wall where I might have a ton of followers paying attention.

Yeah. Isn't that amazing?

Yeah.

Really, it is.

It didn't exist before.

Yeah. So it really keeps people on their toes. The interesting thing I think about is you're at your work, whether it's virtual or you're in the office more than anything else you do. Right. Probably even more than sleeping with your team is. So to me, like, if I was looking for work, I would think, where's a place where people are nice and welcoming and it feels like a community and a family?

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

So, I mean, is that kind of what you're talking about as far as a dinner party, that people are there and just enjoying one another's company?

Yeah. And it's up to you. You wrote down. I wrote little cheat notes on things you said earlier on my hand, and you were talking about making a decision. And I think with culture, that's the number one thing that I start with when I start working with a business, whether small or big or just like two people in a room together starting an agency is to say, what do you want this to look like? If this is wickedly successful, how does it feel to work here? How do we make decisions? Because all kinds of cultures are good. People love working at Apple is known for being very secretive and very. You're gonna do a lot of work, but you're gonna make amazing things, and we're gonna demand the best of you. There's people that want that, right? There are people that want.

It stretches them.

It stretches them.

It stretches them. It's not about making it easy. I mean, I've had, on our time, instances where some of our team members have come to me and said, I don't know if I can do that or that feels really stressful and scary. And I'm like, I believe in you. I know you can do this. And then, you know, they've been able to do it. So it creates a sense of accomplishment and. Right.

And all. All of those dinner parties are great. There can be fancy dinner parties. You know, we could go somewhere and have, like, a very fancy dinner party where we're sitting down and it's very elegant, and there's multiple courses. We can go to something that's more like a potluck. And all of those are right. If you get the right people in the room.

Right.

So I think sometimes small business folks think I have to. The only way to have a great culture is this one specific way I read about in Inc Magazine.

Right.

But the reality is, is it's about being clear about what you are creating, because then you can go find people that are into that party.

Is it kind of like what I was talking about earlier when you have your bigger why, too? Because then the team or, you know, your co workers are helping to move that vision if they can really get connected to it.

Right.

So that would be your role as the leader to inspire those team members.

And to be clear, I think that that's so often where people struggle, is being clear. And I teach a lot about storytelling in your culture and creating stories about why is this what you believe? If this is what you believe as a leader, where did that come from? And it takes a little vulnerability sometimes to say, well, this belief came from when I was a kid, and now I believe it's important. And I think as a Leader, especially in a lot of small to medium businesses, your values of your company should be your values. I believe that because it's going to be hard for you. And I would imagine that the values of your organization match pretty closely to your personal ones. And then it's so authentic. You know, I'm meeting people here today and it's like, oh, I get what this team is about. I get how they're focused. And that's only because that's congruent with who you probably are.

Yeah.

And so for small business owners out there, it's. This isn't about changing what you want. It isn't about recrafting some kind of culture that's attractive. It's about being more specific about what you do want. It's about, you said the why and it's about defining the why with such clarity that people say, ah, I want to get. I want to go to that party. I want to be invited to that one. That's for me.

Right. So the question would be, do you really know your why? Do you really know your vision? I mean, are you. We talk about it all the time, but how clear are you at communicating it?

Yeah.

And if you're frustrated with your team, do they really get your why and your. Your mission and your vision? Right, right.

And it's often one of the first things that I find is that a lot of that information is in here for leaders. Especially in a small business where you think, well, I've only got five people or I've got 50 employees, they're around me all the time. So they know. Right. And that's often the issue is we haven't sat down. So with that why, with that vision that you're talking about, it's sitting down and putting pen to paper and describing it, not in. We kind of. I don't know where it came from. Somewhere in the 1950s, this idea of a vision needed to be a bunch of words that no one could pronounce because they need to be slapped on a website to sound pretty. That's the wrong way to go. The right way to go is to sit down with a pen and paper and just start writing from your heart what this thing looks like if it's successful. You talked about deciding. I'm deciding I want a million dollar business or a billion dollar business. Great. What's it look like there? When that happens, how do we work together? Is it a lot of employees? Is it a few employees? And we outsource, really start describing that so that in recruiting and trying to find people, it becomes a beacon.

Right.

You put it out there and people can say, ah, that's for me, that sounds like something I want. In your job descriptions and your interviewing. It allows you to embed that so much deeper so that people kind of self select to come be part of what you're doing.

Yeah. And I really believe that's what has happened in our company because we've just attracted such amazing people. And I worked really hard the last several months in creating, getting really clear on our vision and where we see our company in the next three years and made this living document. And I know Giles has it like all on his wall like this. We've shared it with all of you. If you want another copy of that, we're happy to share it with you so that you can mirror that for your business model after it. And it's a very powerful exercise to go through. Was very emotional for me to really think that through and put it to paper. And then we've got it, you know, with. I gave it to a graphic designer who made it all really beautiful. But it's something I'm really proud of sharing with as many people as I can.

And I'd imagine as your team grows and as other even probably just, you know, folks who want to come join this group, it helps people self select and say, that's the, you know, the dinner party for me, that's a place I belong and I know what that's going to be like because you've expressed it so clearly and what you're saying is so common where some of these people will come to work with me and we'll sit down and they'll say, this is two days, two day vision and culture crafting workshop. Like I don't, can't we just sit down and talk about how we're going to budget, you know, happy hours once a week. And what we find is that there's this existential crisis that can sometimes happen for the founder or the owner who's sitting down and saying, it's not about a martini, it's not about a martini. Although that's nice. Once you have it done, you can.

Do the martini, but let's get the why first.

Yeah. And people really struggle with that because what I have people do and what I'd encourage you to do. And I think what you're saying is really go out and describe in so much detail that you would know when you made it, you know, for the vision of your company. If we were sitting down on the date that you said so you said three years for you. If you and I were sitting down three years from now, and I just read that vision and I looked around, would I say, oh, that's what I see. Because without that kind of clarity, your team then struggles to make decisions. Where we get into culture now a little bit deeper is with that clear kind of destination where we're headed now the team can start to make decisions. And you as an owner don't have to be so involved in every single decision because they know where you're headed. And it becomes about course correcting, not about these huge conversations about how someone is so off base because now they know where you're going.

Well, this is a cool factoid and that is you all have that vision. And I talked about expanding to Europe, to London, Australia, St. Barts. Right. Well, I already since putting that in the document, I have some things in the works for London because people just started. These opportunities started coming and. Oh, and I ran into a guy at my mastermind and who is from England. Oh, I'm going to give you these connections. So don't worry about how the vision's gonna come, but first you gotta state it and create that intention.

Yeah, if we got in the car and we pulled out here and we got to a stop sign and we could go straight ahead or left or right, and we said, well, what's the right choice? They're all good choices depending on where we want to go.

Right.

And so what we're leaving employees to do so often is to make that decision with missing information. Then that's where we hear leaders saying, well, my team is engaged. They don't understand what we're doing. And it's because they don't have that destination in mind. I would imagine that as a leader, a lot of you can say, oh, if we get to the stop sign and there's a detour, I still know how to get where we're going. The times are going to change. We live in a world. This is such a thing that people say we live in a world that's changing so fast, but we do. And to be able to adjust, you need a really clear idea of where you want ahead. Because the tools you thought you might have if you focus too much on the how, like you're saying, what if those tools go away?

Yeah.

A lot of businesses were hit with this when Facebook started saying, oh, your business page, that's not going to be free anymore. And then they were left with like, that was our only way to drum up business so you have to not focus so much on the how when you're thinking. You can focus on the how every day or every quarter to think of what's our strategy. But when you're setting up the vision, you just got to get crystal clear on where that destination is so that you and your team can navigate. Because that's one of the issues with engagement. People are not engaged because it's like, well, I don't have to think because she just tells me what to do because I don't know where we're headed. So I keep making the wrong choices.

Which actually. So there's two things that came up for me when you were saying that. One is, I truly believe that people are engaged and motivated from something emotional. When you speak from your heart, if you're just speaking. And it's just the numbers are important. Don't get me wrong, everyone to know the numbers. That's not what I'm saying. But it's really. That's not the driver. I mean, if you look at very wealthy business owners, it wasn't about the money, truly, because that's not what's going to get you out of bed in the morning. And so if you are able to express that authentically from your heart, that's what's going to get your team fired up.

Right? Right. And on the money front, if that really is the only thing, then you gotta let go of the how. Because if you've said the only thing that matters is getting to a million dollars, then you gotta get out of. Because you didn't define anything else. What you've said to me is, we need to get to a million dollars. So essentially what you've said is, do whatever you gotta do to get there.

Right.

What I often find is that's not true for so many of you. You have a specific way you want it to feel. You want your customers to feel. You want to feel every day when you go to work. And if you don't define that and the money's the only thing, you're sending a very clear message to people that says, do whatever you have to do to get there. And then you wonder why, like, oh, people don't want to work here because, well, my coworker isn't great because she's just doing whatever she has to do to get to the money. Because we haven't defined how it feels to work here.

Yeah, I love that. And start putting questions in the chat for Mike, because we're going to answer those questions in a minute. But something else you said about stepping back. I saw a Simon Sinek video recently. I love him. And he was talking about when you go to events, okay. And you're like on your email, you're like cc'd on every email that's going on with your team at home. And you're not present, like right now, people right now. But what that's saying to your team, you know, forget about how that's impacting. You're not in the moment and you're not really taking in what's going on. But you're also telling your team, I don't trust you. I have to know every little thing because you can't do this or you're going to screw up. Now, chances are they will screw up from time to time because, you know, it happens. But it's like with children, if we're constantly going in and fixing it, which I used to do as a mom. And, you know, I actually had my daughter tell me once. She said, well, mom, it's probably because I know you're going to come in and fix it. Whoa. That was a big moment for me. I was like, okay, I'm done. Right. So, you know, you can't give your team wings to fly if you're always involved in every little piece. And the whole idea with the business is that you want it to flourish without you having to be working in the business.

Right. Because if you're working in the business, you just have a practice.

Yeah.

You know, and that's fine if that's what you want. It's, I'm a coach and this is my practice. Well, that's very different. You probably don't need to worry about culture if it's just you. But as soon as you add people, now you've got a business and there's some different rules there. Yeah, yeah. What a wake up call, too. As a mom, that's great.

I know, I know. I was like, oh, man, that was a slap in the face.

Well, and it's smart of you to be awake for it, to recognize it for what it was and shift.

Yeah. And for her to see, because it wasn't a conscious thing. It wasn't like she was thinking, oh, my mom's gonna do it. But she really sat and thought about it and thought, well, maybe it's because I know you're just gonna fix it, you know, so, yeah, listen to your children because they'll tell you straight to your face. So let's see. So we kind of answered this, but it doesn't matter if it's just a few people because you can start building your company culture with even one employee, right?

Yeah.

Right.

Well, and I think you do. I think the issue. Sometimes people come to me and they say, hey, we want to start working on our culture. And I say, oh, well, let me tell you something. You have one already. You just haven't been intentional about it. You haven't been specific about it. But you get a couple people in a room, a culture has created. You've created conditions in that room. How we talk, how we interact, what matters when we make decisions about customers or about the discretionary effort I'm going to put into something. So what I often say is the culture is usually a reflection of the leader. Kind of like your story with your. With your daughter. She was reflecting you. It's a mirror. And even if you have one other person, you have a culture. Yeah, you may not need all of the stuff if you only have three people. You may not need a whole lot of programs around culture. You may not need specific deep programs on performance reviews or real time feedback. But I think that idea of a vision is important. Probably even if you are just doing a practice and you're by yourself, is sitting down and saying, if I define this, let me talk about what goes into it. And my little trick there is to sit down and make a list of prouds. You know, if you pick a date, pick a date on the calendar and start your sentence with It's January 1, 2020, and this is what I see. And almost pretend that you're a little bird floating above your business and you're watching it like a movie and you're describing what you see. And if you struggle with what goes in, just make a list of prouds. What would make you proud of 2020? What does that look like?

I love that. What would make you proud in 2020? And that's what we did. I actually, my vision says, you know, it's December 31, 2020, and speaking from that place, and here as we go into the new year, this is the perfect time to do it. Take the time and really get. Give yourself space where you can be creative and lay that out. So before I open up to questions real quick, how can you leverage the company culture to hire great talent? Great.

So I think that great talent wants to work with other great talent. People don't want to go to work and say, oh, I'm working next to a bunch of people who aren't great to work with. So it's telling more stories about what it's like to work there. Even that vision. If you've crafted that vision and you've put in what matters, left out the stuff that you don't know or you don't care about, there's going to be places in there where it talks about what it's like to work there. Put those in your copy. If you're putting ads out there. The number one thing I see that drives me crazy and that I often help people with is they just post a job description and they say, well, they'll find me. But the reality is a lot of those job descriptions just look like the other ones. And so you're not sending a signal out that says, here's who we are, this is the kind of people we're looking for. And if you're one of them, then get in here. And so my recommendation is to rethink the stories you're putting out there and change your job descriptions. The top copy and a lot of folks here are very good at sales, I'd imagine, good at copy. On your websites and in your business, treat your job postings the same way. Start it with some interesting copy around what it's like to work there and the person, what they're going to get out of it. What are they going to get from working with you? How are they going to be better when they've left? And then you can go into and here's the stuff you're going to do every day. But flip it around.

Attract top people. Right? It's kind of like an app. It's, you know, just like you're trying to attract top prospects for your business.

Exactly.

Same thing.

And speaking in a language that matters to them. So you were speaking earlier about. I put this on my secret list of notes because I wanted to reference it. You were talking about making it easy for people to do business with you. I always talk about with culture and using it to grow your brand because there's a strong link there that you need to make it frictionless, which is the same as easy.

I like that. Frictionless.

Make it frictionless for great people to say, this is the place for me. Make it frictionless for them to say, this is somewhere I know I can gain career that I can grow. Because we're always about boosting our status. So if I'm looking to come and work with you, it's because I believe that's going to elevate me in some way. Your brand is going to elevate me. The skills I'm going to learn are going to elevate me. So be more clear about that, because you want it to be frictionless for the best people to say, oh, I got an okay thing going over here. But, wow, that sounds really good. Because the people who are great talent, someone else is probably holding on to them pretty tightly. So you need to give them a reason, make it frictionless, make it easy to say yes to you.

I had someone who left our company because they were offered quite a bit more money. This is a couple years ago. And he went to this new company and was so miserable and came back, you know, really wanting his job back. But I had already filled the position, so I. You know, I think sometimes the people think it's the money, but really it's like, gosh, they want to be where they feel, you know, they belong and that, you know, that they're empowered. Right. So there's some really cool questions that are coming up, so why don't we go with that? So Annie asks, when culture is intentional, is that perceived as insincere? If culture is defined by the leaders of the company, is it if or is okay, so if it's intentional. So is it not authentic if it's intentional?

Sure. And I think you have a lot of good intuition there to say, well, wait, does culture come from the top? Does it come from the people? If you're saying it's about the conditions at the table, then aren't the guests at the dinner party in charge of whether they're talking to each other? And I would say it's both. It is the job of the leader to set some clarity around what this is going to look like and how we want it to look. It's your job to prune a little bit and say, hey, of course this is an organic thing. Your culture is organic. We're going to have a relationship, and we're going to have a relationship, and the owner can't dictate that. But it is like a garden in a way. And you've got to kind of prune the garden. The plants are going to grow, which are the relationships at work, but you've got to kind of prune them and show them the way you want them to grow.

Right. Oh, I love that. And Annie has another question. Not everyone is motivated by money, and sometimes that isn't the culture. Money, she says, right. Money is important, but sometimes it's flexibility, learning, you know, sometimes it's education. Right. Each employee is different. Is that okay in our culture?

Yeah, I think that's a big one, too. And it goes back to what you were saying earlier about should the vision just be a money number? Is that all it is? If that's all you care about, then sure. If you don't care how people treat each other, how they treat customers, how you make decisions, the quality of your products, then sure, just put the number out there and say, that's where we're going. Do what you got to do. But if there's more to it than that, then you have to be specific. And I would actually. I completely agree with you, Annie, that most people aren't motivated by money alone. And if that's what you're using to get ahead, eventually everyone will just pay the same amount that you do. I mean, eventually it just keeps going. And so then you have to find another reason to stand out and another reason to be a great place to work. The word motivation actually is like a blending of the top word, motive. It means reason in Latin. It's the reason. If there's anyone who's like a Latin student out there, I may not be exact, but this is generally the thing I understand about it, is that motive means reason.

Sounds good.

And the ending that motivation is about action. So what you're doing when you're looking for motivation is giving them a reason to take action. So even in your job description, that's what I'm encouraging you to do to find great talent, is give them a reason to take action.

Okay.

The same as you were talking about even in your sales copy on your website. Make it easy for people to say, this is for me. They're solving my problem. So when you're thinking about building culture, sure, money can be motivating for some people. And if it is, they're going to be motivated to go somewhere else. So you've got to find another reason to get them to action. And a lot of times, if that vision is really clear and you're really specific about the great reasons to work with you, and you hold people accountable for treating each other in a way that's in line with that, those people are going to have that motivation.

I love that. This is really cool. So more questions?

Yeah.

Okay. And we're good on time here. So Laura is in the real estate business. She said, I struggle with the idea of creating a culture being such a small company. Me, myself, and I a lot of times. But she's working with virtual people in freelance. And I know that it was a conversation I was having someone at an event last night, like, how do we keep a virtual team inspired and motivated when you don't have so much of a close connection on a regular basis.

This is a big thing right now. It's becoming more and more of a big thing. You've got a couple of things in there. So on the freelancer side, where it's gig economy type stuff, so you think, oh, I'm hiring someone to do a flyer for me, and then they're gone. If that person's never really interacting with your customers, then, you know, it's a. It's a vendor in that way. So in the gig economy, it's a vendor. My gig economy. Yeah, that's what they're calling that whole idea of you go and you work on a gig. Yeah.

You got a gig.

Yeah. The Lyft world, the uber world, the Doordash world. That's called the gig economy.

Okay.

And I think it goes back even further. Like, Angie's List was the gig economy kind of idea. So in that case, those are vendors. And so you just have to make sure you work with vendors who are in line with you and you get the good work. If you're talking about freelancers or remote workers who have access to your customers, who are working with other people who might work on your team, then you do have to set some ground rules for what that looks like. And the best way to do that is to be really clear about what matters to you, that this is the way we do things. And starting a conversation about, hey, here's how we believe in treating people. And so are you cool with that? Is that a cool way for us to work together? And what I find often is when you do that, people are like, oh, this is gonna be cool, because they're not used to that. They're used to being treated not so great, probably by a lot of people. And so when you come in and say, hey, here's kind of. I want you to read my vision. This is what I'm trying to do. And I just want to make sure that's interesting to you and meaningful to you, because you're going to be part of that. Even though you're a freelancer, even though you're virtual, you're still part of my team, and you mean something to me. So I have some commitments to you.

That's really powerful. Yeah. You know, and again, I think that's more important than the cocktail party.

I think it's way more important because.

You know, once the drink's gone, the buzz is gone, you know, but this is something that really lives on because people want to feel like they matter.

And what's funny about the cocktail party is I realized this a long time ago that I would go to these events with people back before I was in a big leadership role. And I realized that people were going to these fun events to just complain about how much they didn't like work. So that, oh, the company is subsidizing all these people getting together in an effort of culture, and they're not listening to them and actually fixing what's bothering them at work.

That's true.

It happens so much.

Yeah. They're pouring their heart over.

So you're subsidizing it.

Yeah, that's not so hot. So. So some good other questions. How Diane Forster says, how often should you do reviews evaluations with your employees?

That's also a super hot topic right now is if you're reading Harvard Business Review or something, you're seeing kill the performance review. I think the issue with performance reviews is that we don't give enough feedback as things happen. And so we once a year say, hey, so 11 months ago, during this meeting, and the person is on the other side saying, oh, my gosh, you had information that you were withholding from me that could have helped me build relationships and do better at work, and you didn't tell me. So I like to take a military approach, actually, which is really probably shocking given everything else you're seeing about me. But in the military, there's this idea of after action review. And so what they do is after some kind of, you know, especially during training a lot after some kind of action, after some activity, some mission that they went on, they immediately talk about what was the intention of that thing we just did, what actually happened, and what's the most optimistic way we can talk about using something to move forward, how can we improve it? And I think we have to embed that more frequently. If you're involved in lots of meetings and there's someone on your team leading them, you owe it to them to take. You owe it to your own business, actually, and yourself to take five minutes after the meeting and say, hey, let's review really quick. Tell me what your intentions were for that meeting. Tell me how you felt it went, and then let's share some notes back and forth. And here's some stuff I think you can do next time to be even more impactful and a secret language. Words matter. Words matter. So your magic words for this, Write this down or type this down.

Magic words.

Magic words. Coming up is as a manager, the way that you can as a leader, as an owner, the way that you can kind of defuse someone feeling defensive is to say, here's what I liked best about your performance, and here's something I think you can do next time to make it even more impactful.

Ooh, I like that. Can you say that one more time?

Yeah. So here's what I liked best about your performance or your meeting or whatever it is, and here's something I think you can do next time to make it even more impactful or even more effective.

You're saying it was impactful. So I love that because you're starting with something positive, and I think people are going to be more open instead of getting defensive.

Right. And you let them know what to repeat. Because sometimes what happens is we give people feedback of what to change, and then they change it so far in the other direction that you're like, oh, that thing I loved you're no longer doing. Yeah, I liked when you did that thing, and now you stopped it because you're worrying about my other feedback. So I think if we're specific about.

Kind of like, in relationships, too, right? Yes. Right. Like, if I'll tell my husband something, he'll go, oh, so mean. All of those things that I did are null and void now. I'm like, this has nothing to do with that. That's what we do. You know, we go into that place of insecurity. So I think that helps to build people up.

And the trick there, if you want to try to remember that, you wrote it down. But if you want to remember it, I learned that from my friends at a place called Zingerman's in Ann Arbor. So if anyone's in Michigan. Hey, Michigan. I was just there speaking recently, and call it lbnt. Liked Best Next Time. Like, Best Next time. And what you were saying earlier about your daughter and how that might show up in your work, where you're constantly just fixing things for people, is give them a chance to do it first. So, hey, what'd you like best about that meeting you just led? What do you want to do next time to make it more impactful? What's great is if they say the same things, you think you're off the hook, because then you're like, you know what? I agree with you. That's great insight. Tell me how I can support you, and then you're off the hook. It's great stuff.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. This is so good and so many great questions. We'll try to get to as many as we can. Let's see here. And Jim you're giving some great feedback here. And it is about. He's saying culture is intentional for a reason. It's about what you stand for. Great way to stand up and be counted for what you believe in. I really love that. That thought. Gila Kurtz says, what is the best way to address employees when they are not in alignment with your culture you're creating? Their performance is there, but attitude is on some of the times, but other times it creates tension.

Sure. So I think there's always something to unravel there. And so one is just having an honest conversation in those times where it happens is having the, like, best next time. Hey, what I liked best is that you contributed those two ideas, and I think it really helped the team. What I think could make it even more impactful next time is the way you communicated it. I think might have set some people off and you had such a great idea. I would hate for them to lose that. Let's talk about what was going on for you. It's hard being a manager. It's hard being a business owner. There's so much to think about. You're thinking about your website and your business and your sales and your copy. But the job, if we decide to have people join our team, is to give them lots of people feedback. So I would encourage you to do more after action reviews with the LBNT method.

Lbnt.

Lbnt. It sounds like a good sandwich, right?

It does.

A nice sandwich.

Yeah. I'm gonna be getting hungry in a minute.

I would use that more frequently, and I'd be more clear about what's in alignment and what's not. So what's hard is if you haven't been clear in your culture, if you haven't been intentional with your vision, it's very hard to then go and say, hey, what you're doing isn't in line with that. Because they'll say, in line with what? You're just making this up today. That's why it's so important. Like you've been saying, like I've been saying to write it down so you can say, hey, remember, this is what we're trying to do. What's going on for you today? And maybe there's something fixable. Maybe they're saying, oh, I don't like the little chair I sit on, or I don't like that I'm called last in the meeting. And it's like, oh, I can fix that. But if you don't ask, you won't know.

Exactly. Stop trying to be a mind Reader and ask.

We're so bad at that.

I know, I know. I definitely have been guilty of that many times. Let's see what was another. So what if you. This is a big one because we talk about a lot in Pinnacle, about what got you here. Won't get you there.

Sure.

And sometimes you'll have team members that are just not going to take you to the next level. They were good to this point but were emotionally attached and it's hard. How do you know I should let this person go or I should work with them more or move them somewhere else? Like, what are your thoughts on that?

I think you take the same idea and it's tough one. It's so tough. I've been a lot of the businesses I've helped grow and I had a little team with me and I kept bringing them with me. And sometimes it's like, ah, that's not what we need anymore. And it's someone you care about so deeply and you know, in a small business you're part of their family in some way. So it is very hard. I will acknowledge that. Which is why I think it's very important that you're honest with them because imagine that you aren't and something does happen and eventually you need to say, hey, we're saying goodbye. And they look at you and say, well, why didn't you ever tell me that before? That's going to be really hard. Sometimes people say like, I don't want to be mean. And it's like, well, it's going to be real mean when you have to fire them or when everyone on the.

Team came out of left field. Right, Right. So they should pretty much know by that time.

They should know. And a way to get yourself in is again, if you're doing lots of after action reviews where you've taken just five minutes to do lbnt, the way to do it is to use that visioning exercise where you pick a date in the future and you describe a list of prouds and then you go into detail about what it looks like. That's what your performance review should look like. So if you've done that with someone, you know, if I'm working on Allison's team and she's done that with me, and we have this clear vision of what success looks like for me in the next year regarding my performance, we can go back to that. Then you can say, well, you know, you told me this is what you wanted. Mike, what's going on with you? I'm not. This doesn't look like what I'm seeing. So what's up? I want to help you because you told me what mattered to you was this vision. What I'm seeing is not that. And I want to help you. So what's going on? And then it can. I don't know. It moves you into, like, helpful mode more.

Yeah.

You become that sometimes. As leaders, we want to be the. We want to be the hero of their story, but our job is not to be. Is not to be Luke Skywalker. It's to be Obi Wan. You know, I'm geeking out now. For all you. The movie's coming out soon, so it's.

We be Obi Wan.

Yeah, be the Obi Wan. Be their mentor and their guide. Don't be the hero of their story. Let them be the hero. And so the only way you can do that is if you know what they want, then you can speak their language. So that's my. That would be my advice there.

Awesome. All right. Pamela says she loves the lbnt. Everyone's hot on that. Let's see what else is going on here. Michelle, who I got to see last night. Hi, Michelle. She says that she actually, while we were doing this, asked her team, where is it now? Now I can't find it. I did a checkpoint, asked my staff what they perceive the company culture to be. Very interesting.

Brave.

Yeah. Yeah. So let's see what. What they say. And let's see. Jeanette, on my contract with an instructor, I list the communication is the golden rule. I make it a point to check in with them periodically to see how things are going with them in their classes.

You know what? One of the things I would add to that is making sure that if you do have those kind of values, communication is the golden rule. High quality matters to us. Figure out what behaviors are aligned with that and be clear about those, because it's very easy if you and I say, yeah, we love high quality things, that may mean different things to us. And so if that matters to you, then take your values and make them specific behaviors. So in the case of this, and I imagine you have done that, is to say, not only is it that I value communication as a golden rule, because I value that this is what I will do for you and what you will do for me.

Right.

Super clear, then.

Cool. I love that. And in fact, we're taking the whole team. We're talking about company culture. Everybody's going out tonight. We're having our holiday party before the holidays because we get so crazy busy. We have a big event in January, so pretty much next couple months, we're slammed. So we're all going out tonight to celebrate. We're actually having a real dinner party together. We were talking about that earlier, so I'm very excited about that. So any other questions anyone has, because I think we're about to wrap up, but this has been so helpful.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

So fun to be here. And I just love, you know, this is so cool to get live feedback and to be able to talk to all of you and to share ideas with you and, you know, to hear that the little trick, the little LB&T works is really, really great. So I'm super excited to have been here and honored that you brought me to this community because I can see how much everyone in the room cares. So this culture is great.

Super, super blessed to have this team and this community. And let's all give Mike a hand, and we will definitely have you back for more because you just sound. I mean, we could go on and on. There's lots of great stuff here, and it's a big part of scaling your business, right, Is your team and the happiness of the team and happier they are or the more driven and inspired they are, that translates to the bottom line, right? Because they're going to be more passionate and committed.

Thank you.

Yeah. All right.

It's a pleasure.

Thank you so much.

Thank you all.