Risky Business: Marketing Secrets to Building - and Growing - an Unforgettable Brand

Stories, what they do neurologically in your brain is absolutely fascinating. If you have the choice to share facts about a product or a service, or you have the choice to share a story about a product or service, you'll always want to share a story because it's going to engage more of the brain and make people truly become part of the story.

Welcome to the Scale or Fail show. I am your host Alison Maslin and I am the CEO and founder of Pinnacle Global Network where we mentor business owners around the globe to create businesses that change the world. And I am so excited because today we actually have one of our amazing members of Pinnacle Global Network that happens to be one of the top marketing experts in in the world. So I'm going to just jump right in and introduce her because you are going to learn so much in this episode of the Scale or Fail show. Stephanie Nabinskas is the CEO of Sizzleforce Marketing, a digital marketing agency that serves clients around the globe. And since 1995, she's been developing and executing brand building campaigns that have elevated Fortune 500 companies and thousands of scaling businesses. A story brand certified guide and certified partner of Digital Marketer. Stephanie is the author of the international number one bestseller Absolutely Unforgettable the Entrepreneur's Guide to Creating a heart Centered Brand and Standing out in a Noisy World. She's also written for both Forbes and Entrepreneur magazine. And in addition to providing done for you marketing services for private clients, Stephanie is a creator of Sizzle Force Marketing Academy, a training and live consulting course for emerging marketers and small business owners who want to learn how to market their own companies. It's also a great academy for maybe your employees to help them become good marketers and help you grow your business. So Stephanie, so happy that you're here on the show.

Thanks, Alison. I'm so honored to be here. Thank you very much.

Yes. Stephanie and I have worked together for how many years now?

We're going on eight years.

Oh my gosh. So I have had the personal honor to work with Stephanie and also to see so many different brands, so many different companies that she has helped to take to the next level to propel with her marketing. You have so much to share. But how did you get into the marketing world, the copywriting world? Where did it all begin?

Yeah, so I studied journalism just like you, Allison. I studied journalism in school and actually wanted to go into broadcasting. That was the original goal, but took a little bit of a left turn and ended up working at a newspaper. Back when people used to read newspapers in 1995, got my first job there and I ended up working in the advertising department helping all of the advertisers write the copy for their ads. And one thing led to another. I found that I absolutely loved it and my career built from there.

Yeah, you know what, it's so funny because as you said, I also studied journalism and I think as I was writing stories like this person got hit by a car and this, you know, this robbery, I was like, well, this is depressing. I really don't want to do that.

Exactly. I was like, I cannot sit here and write about bad news all day. No, there's too much good news happening.

Yeah, exactly. Well, I want to dive into to all the things that you have to share. And I want to start with your book. Because you say in your book, the world's most unforgettable brands all have one thing in common. They take risks. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yeah. You know, the world's most unforgettable brands always take risks. They're great at breaking rules, which I love. You got like a little bit of a rebellious spirit here. They are the brands that tend to disrupt and they speak out when other brands are silent about certain things. And honestly, because they're willing to be bold, they are to amass insane brand loyalty.

Right.

People are just like. Because when, when they find their tribe and they speak to what their tribe aligns with, those people are like glue to them throughout the life of the brand. And that's what makes them do crazy stuff like, you know, tattoo a logo on your arm for a company and build a cult like following. So, yeah, risk taking is important and it's something people are afraid of.

Yeah. I think maybe that's why I like to jump off the trapeze. I don't know.

Yeah, exactly. You like to put your life at risk every day.

Yes, exactly. So, and what are, give us some examples. What are some of your favorite risk taking brands?

So one of my very favorites is the body shop, the international skin skincare store. I actually worked with them for five years. And the founder of the body shop, Anita Rodick, she has passed away now. But I will tell you, when I worked there, I got to meet with her on more than one occasion. And her story was so incredible. She's actually the person that is credited with saying that phrase that a lot of us have heard. Well behaved women rarely make history. That came out of her lips and she lived that because she was constantly misbehaving. And I'll Tell you guys how at that time, when she started her company, the cosmetics and beauty care industry was really all run by men. And men were deciding what the campaigns were gonna say and who was gonna show up in the ads and what. What the. You know, just what the whole message was going to be. And it was also totally centered around profitability and really only profitability. And Anita came onto the scene and she said, no, you know what? I don't want to make every woman look the same. I want women to feel beautiful in the skin that they're in. I want to highlight their natural features. I don't want them to feel like they have to use anti aging this or that. I want them to feel beautiful at any age. And the other thing that she did was she passionately believed that business could be a force for good.

Right.

So she very intentionally started putting her products in recyclable packaging that was also refillable at the stores at that time. And she was a huge believer in fair trade. So when other companies would go to other countries and really exploit the people that live there, she would pay them a fair wage and help them establish their own strong economies. And it was just really beautiful. That's just scratching the surface, but she was one. She was like a rebel with a cause, and she was unapologetic about it, and it changed the entire industry.

Yeah, I remember hearing her speak, and I didn't get to ever meet her. I actually really wanted her to speak at one of our events and was really sad when she passed away. But I've known of her story, and I love that. And it is so interesting that the cosmetics industry was run by men. I think the lingerie industry was, too. In fact, I was just reading about how Avon started, and it was this guy. I can't. I don't know his name, but he was selling books door to door and was selling. Doing perfume as a bonus. Oh, isn't that wild? And then perfume was the hit, and then one thing led to another. But. But why. Why do you feel like a brand needs to identify its voice? And how does that happen?

Yeah. So you know your brand voice. One thing that I like to tell people when they're trying to figure out how to do it is to think of your brand like a celebrity. Okay. This is a great place to start.

Right.

So you think of, if there were any Hollywood celebrity that represented my brand, who would it be?

Right.

And this can take a little bit of time for some people. Other people know right away. I had actually one of the Members of Pinnacle. Allison, that I did this exercise with, I said, so if your brand was a celebrity, who would it be? And she goes, oh, that Beyonce. And she said it like in half a breath. She knew right away. I thought other people say, oh, R2D2, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Right.

All these different things. But when you do that, it kind of helps you bring your brand to life. And it's super important to have your brand voice created because that's how you're going to show up consistently in the marketplace. So, like, my brand personality is Sandra Bullock.

Right.

She's quirky, she's funny, she's authentic, she's smart and she's energetic. And when I think about that personality and then I, I weave that into how we do our day to day operations and how I show up. Whether I'm on a podcast or a stage or I'm working with a client privately, one on one, wherever, or anybody on my team as well. There's a certain way that we conduct our business and it is to align with those personality traits. And that makes sure that we're always sharing the same consistent message and not confusing the marketplace.

Wow.

I love.

I could see the Sandra Bullock.

Can you?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Except when she married the motorcycle, like, guy, you know, when that whole thing happened.

Yeah, right.

Okay, let's take that out of the story.

Yeah, I'll have to have you do that for me. I was sitting here thinking, who would I be? I don't know.

Oh, I got you, Allison. I got you.

Okay, so now I know that you are so creative in coming up with names for companies and products, and you've done many over the years. What should people keep in mind when naming their company or a program or a product that they're launching?

Yeah. So one thing. Well, can I start by sharing a quick little story? There's a company in the Middle east who, they created a laundry detergent. And this laundry detergent in Farsi was called Snow.

Right.

But at the time it was very trendy and cool. Even though they were in a country that spoke a different language to name things according to our Alphabet. And Farsi, when translated into English is actually barf.

Okay.

And so they had a bunch of laundry detergent with the name. Instead of saying Tide, it said barf, which is absolutely the wrong name.

Right?

Absolutely wrong. So one of the things I always tell people is if you're going to sell your product internationally, make sure the name is totally indestructible in other languages. There's another great story about Note to self.

Note to self.

Yeah. There's another one. Chevy had a car at one time, and I don't remember what the name was in English, but I know that in Spanish it translated to no go, which you don't want. A car.

Yeah.

A car that says no go. So you always want to make sure that with your name, it needs to be short, it needs to be sweet, needs to be memorable, it needs to be easy to spell. And, um, you know, if you think about like that yogurt brand, Foggy.

Right.

It's spelled like it should be pronounced phage.

Right.

Or fudge or, you know, everyone's like, fudgy. You know, what? What is it? What? You know, crazy stuff like that. Don't do that because then everyone's going to butcher the name of your company all the time.

Yeah. What do you think of. Because I've thought about this a lot in naming things. Do you think it's important that the name. You know, because I think the trend was to like make up a name. I mean, think of Google, right?

Yeah.

Or have the name say what it is. Right. So, like, when I thought of Pinnacle, Pinnacle Global Network. Pinnacle is about reaching your highest level and your business. Global because we're a global business. And network because it's a network of CEOs and founders. So what's your thoughts on that?

I think it's a brilliant name and I love that.

Right.

I love that. I took the similar approach with my company, calling it Sizzle Force Marketing.

Right, Right.

So marketing is what we do, but I wanted to do a little bit of a play on things and I was like, sizzle, like sell the sizzle, not the steak.

Right.

And Force being our team.

Right.

So I took the same approach that you did, Allison, and I think that's a real tested and proven approach to naming a company that works really well. It's not the only thing that works. There's a lot of other things you can have a lot of fun with naming. One of the companies that I loved naming the most was actually a somebody who would hand knit using the finest Lithuanian wool. She would hand knit baby clothes and sell them in really high end boutiques and whatnot. And we named her company Little Bo Sheep and.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah. And the bow was in French, B, E, A U, which means handsome. So little boy's clothing, little bow, sheep. And so you can have a lot of fun with the names of your companies as well. We had a jewelry company that we named Tesoro because it meant rich Jewel in the native language of the person who owned the jewelry company. So there was also a personal affiliation, but it was a beautiful name, and it was something that when people heard it, it sounded like treasure and.

Yeah.

So you can have so much fun with naming.

Yeah, I love that. And you're so good at that. Now, I know that you love the art of stories, and you say stories are the heartbeat of every unforgettable brand. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah. So stories are amazing. First of all, I'm going to get a little nerdy on you right now, but stories, what they do neurologically in your brain is absolutely fascinating.

Right.

Most of the time, when people hear facts or bullet points or things like that, there's only one area of the brain that is actually being illuminated.

Right.

And so they're only retaining a certain amount of the information as opposed to when somebody hears a story, it lights up multiple areas of the brain. It lights up the sensory part of the brain. It lights up the emotional part of the brain. It lights up the part of the brain that controls impulses and decision making and all of this stuff. So if you have the choice to share facts about a product or a service, or you have the choice to share a story about a product or service, you'll always want to share a story because it's going to engage more of the brain and make people truly become part of the story. Because that's part of what happens is you actually, when you hear a story, it's not a passive thing. Neurologically, we actually insert ourselves into the story. We become a character in every story we hear. And so that's why, you know, when you go see a movie, you start crying. Even though you've never met these people, you know, this story is not true, whatever it is. Or you hear a country song and you're like, right? Because you insert yourself into it and you take your own personal experience, experiences and bring them into the story. So super important for brands to be.

I think that's great, too. And also, if you're making offers or you're sharing about your business, doing case studies and telling it like a story, I do that all of the time. And I think what happens, like, exactly what you're saying is that people, if they relate, they're able to put themselves in that story and say, oh, I could see myself having that similar experience. So that's really powerful. And even on I've been doing this lately, I've been getting on Facebook live more often. Really, like, keeping myself Accountable. And I used to just get on and tell tips, but now I think of a story to relate it to. And I think that the brain processes the story much easier and remembers, like you said, than facts.

Yeah. You know, and really, the brain translates the meaning of words when it's hearing facts, but it doesn't retain anything other than that. That's it. So we've got to tell stories. Our brains are looking for patterns, and our brains are looking for ways to make connections and make words meaningful. So the more we do that as business owners, the better off we're going to be.

Yeah. And you guys, all those of you listening, have great stories. You know, something that happened to you this morning, something that happened to you as a kid, something that somebody told you, something that a client told you, or an experience that you can use.

That's one thing that sometimes people will come to me and they'll say, but I don't have a story. I mean, it's really quite boring how I got into this or what I do is boring. Nobody wants to hear about this. And every single time somebody says that to me, I'm like, oh, game on, girl. I'm gonna find your story. And.

Yeah, and you're so good at that. You're so good at that. Yeah. In fact, we're gonna share at the end of this interview how you can work with Stephanie. And so excited to share that. So you. You know, sometimes people confuse. Because I know a specialty that you have is copywriting. I know you do overall marketing, but you are. You and your team are experts at copywriting, which is so important. Right. When you're talking about website copy blogs, email marketing, social media writing. There's just so many ways that we are creating content. But I think people confuse copywriting and content writing. So what's the difference between the two? And why do you need both?

Yeah. So copywriting is actually words that are written to sell stuff and to motivate people to take an action. Okay. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean sell a product or service. It could be sell the idea of attending an event. Like Allison has her event coming up.

Right.

So we would write copy to promote that, whether that came in the form of an email or a Facebook ad or a sales page or whatever it might be, as opposed to content, which is really written more to educate, inspire, or entertain people.

Right.

Typically, a blog would fall under the content realm. Typically social media, the everyday posts that you put out, those are going to fall under the content realm. So it's the difference of. Are you trying to persuade people to take an action, to buy something or do something, or are you trying to educate, inspire, and just entertain people and that. And that's the difference?

Yeah. Yeah. I do think that is such an important delineation. I think there's a lot of confusion around that and why it's so important to work with someone like you that is an expert in writing. I mean, here you are, you have these opportunities to get in front of your ideal client or your actual clients that you are working with. And so, you know, you don't want to. You want to make sure that you use the words that are going to inspire them into action, to help them step into their greatness, whatever is desired. Why do you think it's important, Stephanie, to work with somebody that is an expert in copywriting and content writing?

I think it is like sticking forks in your eyes to write your own material. I can say this as someone who's been writing copy professionally for 26 years now, Alison, when I have to write my own promotional material, I just. I really would rather stick my head in a blender. It is so hard because I am so close to it.

Right.

It is so hard to truly get to the core of what needs to be said. So every time I'm even writing my own stuff, I have a copywriter on my team, and sometimes somebody that's not even on our team, sometimes I'll even hire an outside copywriter to look at our stuff and help us shape it, because they can see things that I can't see. So it's super important. Like, I always get a little bit concerned when people try to write their own copy and content because, you know, they. It's easy to believe. Well, I know it better than anyone, so I should be the one that writes about it. But the problem is, you know it so well, you're not able to see it the way the rest of the world that doesn't know it so well see sees it.

Right.

So when you work with a professional in this area, they're able to bring in that outsider's perspective. And they're also trained. If they're copywriters, they are trained to write words that sell, which is very different from just writing words that sound pretty.

Right.

Very, very different skill set.

Yeah, it's so true. And it's also so exciting when you have someone that is able to really dive in and focus on your business and come up with these amazing wordsmiths. Because when we've done that for ourselves, I wouldn't have thought of it, like you said, because we're so close to it. And so, like, we were talking about, people freeze right when they have to write something for their business. So let's say, you know, they decide, okay, I want to go after this. I want to try to write some things. Stephanie, what is one tip you can share with them to help them get started?

One of my favorite things to tell people is turn the computer off, put your pen down, and instead grab your phone and press record and just start talking from your heart. Because chances are you can talk about stuff till you're blue in the face.

Right.

And you can really, the excitement and the passion behind what you do and the clarity around what you do will come out with your words, and then you can have that recording transcribed, and that can be the foundation for the copy that you end up writing. It is so much less intimidating than looking at a blank screen and being like, oh, my gosh, where do I even start?

Right.

So that. That can be really a good way to kind of get over that initial obstacle of, like, I'm not a writer. That can help. It can also help if you end up hiring a copywriter or a content writer to polish it.

Right.

It can really help us if we can hear your passion and the clarity coming across in what you do, because we can take that and shape that into words that sell, motivate, inspire, educate, etc. Depending on what the piece is for.

Yeah. And I think one of the most important things you said is that speaking from your heart.

Yeah.

I think if we can get out of our head, you know, where we get that analysis paralysis, we get too stuck in saying it. Right. And just get into your heart space and share from there. I think that's the juiciest information.

Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing. A lot of times people are afraid to be authentic and real, but that is so attractive.

Right.

Like, Allison, I can tell you honestly, when the thing that I love most about you, I mean, my list is very long, but one of the things that I absolutely love the most about you is your authenticity. And you'll share with your tribe about the times when things didn't go perfectly and when you had an embarrassing mistake and whatnot. And it makes you so much more approachable and so much more lovable, and you don't seem like this untouchable force on stage that, you know, you just push a button and everything works perfectly. Right. You make yourself relatable. And so we're all like, well, wow, okay. If those things happen to Her. I feel better about myself when those things happen to me. And I know that I, too, can overcome the challenges.

Well, thank you. Yeah, I think so, too. I think so, too. And I like that in other people, too, because, you know, otherwise it just feels like this impossible level to ever reach. Right. Yeah. And it's just not. It's just not the reality. We all make mistakes, and this is how we learn. And so speaking of mistakes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to copywriting?

Writing it themselves. Okay. It really. It's a huge mistake. It's a huge mistake for all the reasons we just talked about. You just. You can't see your own blind spots. It's kind of like trying to cut your own hair right now. You might be able to cut a little bit in the front and get that right, because you can see it. But try and cut the back of your hair into perfect layers. And good luck.

Right?

Yeah. Even in the front, though, you can get the really high bangs. That's bad.

Yes. And I've done that. Yes. So I don't do that anymore. You know, take a cue from hairstylists everywhere. Don't do your own hair. And take a cue from copywriters everywhere. Don't write your own copy. It's dangerous territory if you don't know what you're doing.

Yeah. If you look up some of the videos on YouTube and you find me in the. With the. The period where my hair was black, black, black, black, like the Addams family black. That was when I was doing my own hair color. Don't do that.

I love it.

Yeah. So can you just share a success story with us? You've. You've had so many, Stephanie, and really helping brands get out there to alliterate them with your beautiful copywriting to attract customers for them.

Yeah. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. I'll tell you guys one that's pretty current. I actually, I have it written down, if that's all right. I'll look at my notes here. There's one company that we work with, Cat Town Grips. They're actually a client of yours as well, Allison. And they started their company in November of 2017. And. And between 2019, which is when we started working with them, 2009 to 2020, they had 190% growth. Between 2020 to 2021, they had 323% growth. And they went from having two products to seven categories with over 200 options. And they've since been seen on Good Morning America. There are one of like less than 1% of brands who has been invited to be on QVC twice and sold out their products. And they're just crushing it on every single level. And we've had the privilege of working real closely with them. Right now we are their, we are their CMO of record, right? And so we're providing all kinds of services to them. We did their website, we've written tons of copy and product descriptions and articles and blogs and yada yada, yada, yada. We're so happy for Matt and Missy. They're just an incredible company and a wonderful family and it's, it's a real privilege to be playing a little role in their really, really big.

Oh, a big role. A big role. I love Missy and Matt and love what you've been able to help them do. Their website is so clever and so creative. Really stands out. I know that's helped them a lot to get some big corporate accounts. So you have been, you have definitely been instrumental in so many. And speaking of, you have something coming up here. You have a marketing challenge. Can you share a little about that?

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm October 25th through the 29th of 2021 in case people are listening to this. In like 2024, this year we are going to do a five day marketing challenge. It's absolutely free to participate, but what we're going to do is we're going to help you move your business forward from a marketing perspective for five days straight. So it's an hour a day. And we've done this before and gotten just raving reviews. People love it because they make immediate progress.

Right.

This isn't just learning to learn, it's learning and doing. I'm a huge believer in implementation is where the magic happens, right. We all have tons of information up here. What we need to do is take the information from up here and do something with it so our businesses will grow. So that's the whole point of the small business marketing challenge. And so it's an hour every day. It's a great fit for a business owner that wants to learn more about marketing their own company. Because for whatever reason they don't want to have an agency or they're just curious. They feel like they need to know enough to be able to make the right hiring decisions. It's also a great fit for people that are up and coming, what I call emerging marketers.

Right.

So this could be. Maybe you have a company and you have 25 employees and you've got this One person, this young person that's so eager to contribute and so eager to learn and move, and they're a hard worker, but they don't have the marketing skills, but they're interested in learning it. You can have that person attend the challenge and, and we will start training your internal team so that they can start contributing to your company's growth in a big way. And they can do it without attending the University of U2.

Right.

They can get trusted guidance from people who have been in the trenches for decades.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's such a smart thing, whether you, the business owner or having some of your key employees or your marketers that you are helping to rise in the ranks within your own company to attend because you're going to learn so much that they're going to be able to apply right away and help you grow your business. I know, Stephanie, you give your best stuff during these, these challenges. I know several people that have attended and they said that it's off the charts. So how do they find out about the challenge or register for the challenge?

Yeah, you can register for the challenge by going to sizzleforceacademy.com challenge.

All right. And we will put that on the screen here. Say that one more time.

Sizzleforceacademy.com challenge.

Okay. Awesome. For those of you that are driving right now and listening to this interview and this, this is the challenge is actually right after our big event that's coming up. I want to share that with you really quickly so you'll be able to help. We'll help you build your scale plan and then go right into getting your marketing dialed in. So what a way, a powerhouse few days to immerse yourself in to grow your business. So for those of you listening, we have our Scale It Live three day virtual event. It's an immersive event and this is where we, step by step, help you build your blueprint to scale your company. Now, Stephanie, you've attended some of our. Well, how many years have you been attending our events? Ever since I've known you. Probably even, you know, maybe even nine years that you've been attending my event.

I think 10.

Yeah. I mean, what, what would you say to somebody that's listening, thinking, oh, I wonder if that's for me.

Oh, gosh, you guys. I mean, I attend every single year and I have for 10 years in a row because it's so good. And every single time I learned something new. You know, like your, your life changes, your business changes and evolves. So there's always new information. You're always encountering new challenges and whatnot. And so, first of all, the content is phenomenal, Right. And even though I have heard certain aspects, again, I pick up new things every time. The networking is off the charts. It's just wonderful. And it's amazing that it's virtual this time because you can draw from an even bigger audience, right? You can connect with people literally all over the world, which is really, really incredible and amazing. Alison always brings in the best speakers, right? The speakers that you know. And they're not just inspirational speakers. They're speakers that have walked the walk, right. And they can talk from real life experience about what works and what works now and how to scale successfully. I think a lot of us struggle with really knowing what the next step is. And it can be hard to put that strategy together on your own or even with a small team if you don't have someone who's already done it holding your hand and saying, come this way. And that's what happens at these events. You've got Allison and all of her mentors that are saying, come this way. Here, let me help you. Let me guide you through this.

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. We love putting on these events. And this time we have some real powerhouse business experts. One of my favorite things is having an opportunity to work with these people. We have Katja Beauchamp, who is the founder of Birchbox, one of the first subscription boxes out there. They have over 250 million subscribers, which is hard to even fathom. We have Vishen Lakhiani, who has been awarded one of the top 10 companies in the world for company culture. He's the founder of mindvalley. We have other amazing speakers as well. But the main thing is if you are a CEO or founder that is ready to take your business to the next level, you're tired of the incremental steps and you really want the big leaps. Give yourself the gift to immerse in these three days and shut everything out, all of the distractions that you normally get on a day to day basis, because there you get to work on the business and then you leave with these breakthroughs, with this clarity, knowing exactly what to do. And then you go into Stephanie's or you send your team to Stephanie's marketing challenge. And so, right. So by the beginning of November, man, you are going to be in a whole different place in your business. So we'll go ahead and put the link to the event. Also here it's scaleitlive.com scaleitlive.com and so excited to see you at both our event and Stephanie's challenge. Is there anything else that you want to share, Stephanie, before we sign off.

Today, I just really encourage everyone go to Allison's event. It is time very well spent. I know it can be hard to justify being away from the business day to day for three days, but I can tell you after 10 years of doing is the shot of infusion and new thinking and energy and goodness that you all need, right? Especially now, after everything we have been living through for 18 months, we need this more than ever. So I hope you guys will join it and I would love to continue equipping you through our free challenge the week of October 25th afterwards.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Stephanie. And it's such an honor to have had you in Pinnacle all these years and work with you and see you soar and see you help so many people transform their businesses. So definitely check out Stephanie and her marketing challenge. And until next time on the scale or fail show, get out there, elevate yourself because you are worth it. Bye everybody. If you enjoyed this episode then you might want to learn more marketing. So check out my interview with Dennis Brown who is an amazing expert on LinkedIn and I'll meet you over there.

I tell everyone I've been an entrepreneur. I started my entrepreneurial journey about 25 years ago. The fast forward version of that is this. For the first 10 years, I got kicked off the horse. I had a lot of ups and downs, many, many, many failures. Like a lot of stories that you hear, I had more than my fair share and then finally got a traction with a couple of things. The last business that I grew was a, was a B2B service company in the logistics arena. Took that company from startup zero revenue to over 80 million in sales. And then I sold that in 2016. And it was during that time frame of building that business, that high growth business, that I stumbled into LinkedIn. Literally stumbled into LinkedIn. Can you imagine what would happen is if, if, if you get a thousand connections over the next year and you could have a conversation, a real conversation with just 100 or 200 of them, what would it do for the average person's business if they were the right people, it would skyrocket their business, right?