STEVE OLSHER: How to Create a #1-Ranked Podcast

You're a fan of podcasts. You're listening to them all the time. Isn't it time for you to put your message out there, your own podcast? You're going to learn all about that right here on the Scale or Fail show. Welcome to the Scale or Fail Show. I am Alyson Maslin. I am your host. I'm a business growth expert. And what I love doing on this show is highlighting experts that are making amazing things happen in the world to give you strategies to kind of give you the shortcut so that you can turn your dreams into reality right now instead of just talking about it forever. And I have someone on the guest, as a guest on the show today that is a dear friend of mine. And talk about shortcutting. For those of you that are ready to have your own podcast, or maybe you have one and nobody's listening, this show is gonna be for you. So Steve Ulcer is known as the world's foremost reinvention expert, famous for helping individuals and corporations become exceptional, exceptionally clear on their what that is the one thing they were created to do. His practical, no holds barred approach propels his clients towards massive profit while helping them cultivate a life of purpose, really doing what they love with their what. How would that change your life? And Steve has been an entrepreneur for 25 years. He's been doing this for a while. He has a New York Times bestselling book called what Is yous what? We're going to talk a little bit about that today. He has his own podcast that is like number one rated called Reinvention Radio and Beyond. Eight figures. He's an international speaker. He just, he's everywhere. He's all things welcome, Steve. Sure.

Thank you for having me. It's awesome to be here.

Yeah. I'm really excited to have you here. And you've been on the show before.

I have, I want to say at least once and maybe even twice. I was thinking about that.

I think. So you were one of my first guests back in. Was it 2010 or 11?

It's been a while. You had your studio out in Carlsbad, maybe, or wherever it was.

Yeah. Before, like, people even use the word podcasting. Right. We were. It was like a live stream sort of thing.

It was kind of in those embryonic stages of all that.

Yeah. So. And you were living in Chicago. You came here and you've just done some amazing things, so.

And you convinced me to move here and now I live in San Diego as of 2014.

It's all my fault. I know I know. Your family came kicking and screaming, kicking and screaming.

I know.

But, you know, you guys in Chicago right now, what is it, like, below zero?

Well, it's, you know, it's Chicago. You never know which, like, six months out of the year, Chicago is one of the best places on earth to live in. You just never know which six months of the year it's gonna be like. That's just kind of how Chicago is.

Yeah, I know. And it's a great city, but we are glad you're here.

Me too.

And so you have. I really want to get into podcasting today because it's so hot. I know that. I'm listening to podcasts all the time. It's a great way to grow, get educated, grow your business, grow a garden, whatever you want to do. But before we do that, I just want to talk about. Because, you know, your what is now the podcasting. But you have helped so many people figure out their what.

Yeah.

And so what prompted you to start on that path?

Yeah, you know, I mean, it's a question that I've really struggled with for all of my adult life anyway, which is how. How am I naturally wired to excel? You know, like what. What truly puts fire in. In my soul? And so it's. It's been that ongoing struggle. And when I tried the Myers Briggs and the what color is your parachutes and the, you know, strengths finders and so on, I mean, a lot of those modalities just left me with more questions than answers. And so in author land, and maybe this is something you can relate to. They say you write the book that you most need, and that's really what. What is your. What is reflective of is creating a very simple framework that anyone can use to running to really figure out what it is that they can do that they can make money at and that they, you know, they. They really will serve those people who they're most compelled to serve.

Right.

And so. And I wouldn't say that my. My what is podcasting necessarily, but I would say that podcasting is definitely a vehicle that I use to share my what of helping people discover, share, and monetize theirs. Yes, if that makes sense.

I love it. Yeah. It's a medium.

It's a medium. Exactly.

But don't you think the what is kind of evolving and changing all the time?

We change and evolve all the time. And so what's interesting, though, is so in the what is your what framework, there's three specific pieces of the puzzle, if you will. There's the core Gift, which I don't think that changes throughout your life. I think your core gift is what it is. I mean, you're either your core gift might be teaching, it might be healing, it might be communicating, it might be enrolling or protecting or one of those things. I think that's really in your. In your DNA. And if I was a smart guest, I would have actually brought a copy of my book, and then I would show you the COVID of the book.

We gotta work on your marketing strategy.

I gotta market myself better. But on the COVID is the DNA strand, because I do believe that your gift, which is one piece of the puzzle, really has chosen you as opposed to that which you have chosen.

Right.

But the other two pieces, I think, are more fluid, are more organic, more evolving, because then you have the vehicle that you use to share that gift, and then the third piece are the people and the people that you're most compelled to serve. So it's a combination of the gift, the vehicle, and the people that make up the what is your what Framework. The second piece and the third piece, again, a little more organic, can evolve over time. But your gift, again, I think that's pretty much static throughout your life.

Yeah. So we're not going to go too much into that today, but definitely check out that book. And. And I think as a business owner, and you and I were just talking about this, we're in our ninth year of this business that I'm running, and you're always evolving. You're always looking at what's working, dropping, what's not, getting clear on the value of your time, and where is the best use of your time and what lights you up, what does excite you. So I think that's pertinent. Pertinent, always.

Yeah. And. And I will say, as it relates to podcasting, you know, there's obviously two sides of the microphone. You have the side of the microphone where you are a host and you can have your own show, much like, you know, you do here in this medium, or you can be a guest. Right. So you don't even need your own show necessarily, to take full advantage of everything the medium has to offer. But what I will say is that you have to be really clear on the value that you bring to the table and what audiences are going to get out of your appearance, whether you're a host or a guest. Right. So as you look at your business and you look at, you know, how are you going to evolve and perhaps take advantage of everything that this medium has to offer, you just Got to be really clear on what your topic of influence is, which is what you focus on that two or three or four word description. And then what are the relevant shows where they're already talking about what it is that puts fire in your soul, or if you started your own show and just making sure that it focuses on that piece. Because ultimately, podcasting above and beyond anything else is great for visibility, but what is really designed for is generating highly targeted, no cost leads. And if you do what we teach you to do, then you can turn every visibility opportunity through podcasting into revenue.

Right.

So a few really important pieces of the puzzle there, but I think you get the gist of what.

Yeah, well, let's talk about that a little bit. So we'll get back to that. And let's talk about just podcasting as a medium today, because it was sort of, you know, I don't know, like five years ago, you were hearing more and more about it. Now it's just, it's constant. And people are almost listening to more podcasting than they are talk shows on television. And so why, why do you feel like it's such an effective medium?

Yeah, so let's. Let's address the sort of the growth question first. Right. In terms of why podcasting is in, some people would argue this is like a resurgence, and others would say that it's all brand new. But either way, no matter how you slice it, I mean, the number of people who were listening to podcast, if we have like sort of hockey stick growth, if you will, I mean, was always kind of here, maybe a little bit of a spike, but it's never like this in terms of what we're seeing today. And I think there's. There's one fundamental reason why we're starting to see so much money being poured into the medium and people like NPR going all in, and the New York Times and Washington Post and iHeartRadio and so on.

Yeah.

And that's because technology has really finally caught up to demand in terms of podcast consumption. I mean, you have to remember back. And people have been talking about podcasting for a long time. Right. But back in the day, you had to go through a number of steps to try to access the show. I'm not going to bore folks with details here, but just know, if you want to listen to a podcast, it wasn't just as simple as what it is now, which is a push of a button on your phone. I mean, once the podcast icon got added to the iPhone, that really helped a lot. But what's really moving the needle even more so now is the car. Right. From the standpoint of Google CarPlay and Apple CarPlay are becoming standard features on most cars. 250 million cars are rolling off the assembly line in the next five years with WI fi as a standard feature. Which means that when you have Apple CarPlay or Google CarPlay now when you look at the dashboard of a car, you, you guys probably have cars that look like this, or if you don't, you will. I mean, literally the podcast icon is, is right there.

Yeah.

And so believe it or not, it's actually now easier in most vehicles to access podcasts than it is to access AM or FM radio. So podcasting in a lot of ways is kind of like the new broadcasting, if you will. And everyone can have their own broadcast channel where literally the push of a button on the dashboard of your car or on your phone gives you the same sort of reach, but globally that a local radio station used to have. Right. So that's, that's part of what's going on there. But then the other piece of the puzzle is that podcasting falls under the category, what I would call a pull medium. So like traditional broadcast television, that's a push media, like a newspaper is a push media. Right. In other words, a small group of people decide what's going to be featured on that particular platform, at what time, who it's going to feature, etc. Etc. And you turn on the channel and it's there and you say, okay, I'll watch that.

Yeah.

Or you change the channel or you turn the page. Right. If it's a newspaper with podcasting, and I liken it to. So you do email marketing. Right. So do you have a 100% email open rate?

Oh, absolutely.

Would you like to have a 100% email open rate?

Yeah.

Can you imagine what that would do? Do you have a 100% email click through rate? No, no, of course not.

So the point, I mean, that's also like saying, does a doctor have 100% cure rate?

Right. And the point being that when somebody pulls the episode and they listen to it, they're basically raising their hand, they're saying, I want to hear that. So it's like the equivalent of having a 100% email open rate and a 100% email click through rate. That's. So even if the numbers are small, you know, and the smallest of shows have hundreds of downloads.

Yeah.

Most shows have thousands or tens of thousands. And some of the bigger shows, of course, have hundreds of thousands and millions of downloads per month. But even the smaller shows. Think about it this way. Would you. Would you speak in front of an audience where there were just, let's say, 100 people who would raise their hand and say, I absolutely want to hear what Allison has to say. Right. Would you take that speaking gig? Of course you would. So the other way to think about it is like thousands of free stages. Right. Podcasts are like the equivalent of thousands upon thousands of free stages.

Yeah. You know, we've been doing this show week after week, year after year, and you know, I'm staring right now at Ryan, our cameraman. So, you know, and we know people are watching and we do, we do live shows, we rebroadcast our shows. And it's true. And I. It's fun when you hear from people, how they feel about the show, you know, but you're not. That's not always. You're not like always seeing that sea of people out there.

Well, and. And if there is one downside of the medium, it is that.

Yeah.

From the standpoint of, at least with email, you know who's opening the email.

Right.

It may only be 10. Like once you get over a hundred thousand people, if you get a 10 open rate.

Yeah.

You know, you're doing pretty good.

Yeah.

But then you can look at the reports and you can say, okay, this person clicked on it, opened it, et cetera, et cetera. Right. With podcasting, and this is the double edged sword of it, one of the reasons why the medium is exploding is because it is an anonymous medium.

Yeah.

From the standpoint of, number one, if we're on a bus or, you know, just kind of hanging out together at the beach, I mean, like, and you're listening to something, I don't know what you're listening to.

Right.

So you literally have that freedom of anonymity.

Yeah. Which barely exists anymore.

Right.

Yeah.

So you can listen to whatever you want without your everyone knowing what you're doing. But at the same token, that anonymity creates issues for the host and the guest.

Yeah. Tracking things.

Tracking things. Because we don't necessarily know who is hearing it. We can see the numbers, but we don't necessarily know who that is. So you have to bounce people into your ecosystem so that you can then have an ongoing dialogue with them moving forward.

Right. Yeah. Well, it's exciting and it's been, you know, we've been doing this consistently year after year, week after week, and I've loved it and I have met the most amazing people, including you. That's how we met, we did through this show.

Yeah. There's something very powerful about having your own platform and there are some folks who just frankly don't love video. You know, I mean, you've got lights and Ryan and, you know, you look amazing, you know, but it takes a little bit of effort to do all of this. Whereas with podcasting, you know, it's auditory, you can do a video podcast, but the majority of podcasts are consumed just simply from an auditory standpoint. So you can, you can be a guest on a show for sure.

Yeah.

In your pajamas, no hair, no makeup.

No travel, the whole nine pluses to that.

And if you want to have your own show, you can do it the same way.

Yeah.

So there's, there are a lot of advantages. I mean, all of this is great, but you can literally get started with the three M's. I mean, you got a mouth, you got a message, you got a microphone. You can either have your own show or you can be a guest on other people's shows.

Yeah. And, you know, we, this show we have as a video podcast and audio podcast. But I do think probably one of the big reasons why it has exploded is that it is so easy to start a show.

It is. And of course, that becomes the other double edged sword in terms of barrier to entry. When the barrier to entry is really low, then what ends up happening is you have, you know, like yourself, I mean, you take great pride in everything that you produce and the content that you create and what you put out for public consumption. Let's just say there are a lot of people who may not have that same level of excellence that you demand in what you do. Right. So that barrier to entry being really low has also hurt the medium to some extent. Because if someone's listening to a podcast for the first time and they stumble on the show and the audio sounds horrible and the interviewer has no clue what they're doing, and, and a guest maybe is just kind of fumbling, like it's, it's not going to be a great experience.

Yeah.

So. And also where it gets interesting too.

I also think too, is it takes a lot of discipline. I had John Lee Dumas on the show a while back and he said that the average person that starts a podcast does it seven times and then stops. Now, I don't know if that stat has changed.

Yeah.

But, you know, you might get frustrated because people aren't listening, nobody's downloading. But there were a lot of people. A lot of shows we did in the beginning. Nobody Was listening.

Yeah. You know, and I will say that pod fade, which is the term, is. Is a. It's a. It's a real phenomena. Pod fade. Yes. And. And look, you know, there are 600,000 podcasts right now with 2,000 new shows being launched every single week.

Wow.

So, I mean, on the surface, you would think, oh, that's a huge number. But when you compare that to the 5 billion websites, you know, it's a very small number. But the truth is, of course, of those 2,000 new shows that are launched, the 600,000 that exist, you have a lot of people who will just fade out. And, you know, I Wonder, from the.

2000, what is it? What percentage?

It's a staggering number. Like, the last number I heard was about 90%.

Wow.

Because it's not an. If you build it, they will come.

Yeah.

It's not like you can't just launch a show and then expect people just to be like, oh, I found this show. Like, it's just not that simple.

Like. Like business. Right?

Like business.

You can't just put out a few social media posts and expect to have people banging on your door. It is that consistency. In fact, I remember we had John Asaraf on the show. This is many years ago, and he's been on a couple times since. But this is when we were in a big studio at a television station and it was livestream, and I interviewed him. It was an amazing show. And then we found out that as I then was on an airplane and landed in Denver, that it never went live. I mean, it never went live. Nobody. So clearly nobody was listening because nobody texted us to tell us, you're not on, you're not on. And then they forgot to hit record. So we didn't even have one of those phone calls you hate to make.

Right. I mean, I kind of like, if you think about it, like, there are office buildings in and around San Diego, and you could have a beautiful suite on the 13th floor of this big, beautiful office tower, but just because you have this beautiful suite on the 13th floor and office, like, that doesn't mean it. No one's gonna find you.

Yeah.

Like, that's just like having all of the legwork done and creating this, you know, this big, beautiful piece of content is really just a small piece of the puzzle.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, it all goes hand in hand.

So let's talk about that a little bit. Getting your podcast out there and you have resources. We're gonna talk about that in a little bit. So do not go anywhere because if you're interested in. In launching your own podcast, you want to stay on so we can give you. You're going to have a resource to know how to do from A to Z. Your own podcast or just being a.

Guest on the show make it even easier.

Yeah, exactly. So don't go anywhere. So you're up and running. You have a podcast. How do those people get to number one? Like, what is the. What needs to happen?

You need. Today is very different. Like, I will tell you this, and like, with all due respect to. And with, you know, some of the other shows that were absolutely the beneficiaries of great timing, if those exact shows were to launch today, they would have a really hard time getting to the same sort of numbers that they're at now. Because there's something called the ascending spiral in podcasting. The ascending spiral being when, you know, when you think about the primary distribution channels, itunes mostly is the, you know, the 800 pound gorilla and then stitcher and Spotify and SoundCloud and some of the other channels where you can access shows. If you think about how those shows get found when they just come out of the gate, most of them, when they're an NPR show or an iHeartRadio show or, you know, Ron Burgundy, right. Will Ferrell came out with the show. Like, they're pumping people over to that show from other platforms, and they're dropping a hell of a lot of money into it in order to get the visibility that they need in order for that show to end up on the charts. And then what happens once they end up on the charts? People see the charts, right? So people see the chart. The charts. They listen to the show, they start rating, they start reviewing, they start subscribing. As soon as those things happen, they continue to go up in the rankings. They go up in the rankings, more people find them, more ratings, more reviews, more subscriptions, they stay in the rankings. So breaking into that ascending spiral for the Average Joe or Jane.

Yeah.

Really, really hard.

Yeah.

So you got to be so diligent about leveraging other tools, if you will, in order to be found. And the same holds true if you're a guest on a show. I mean, you're not just going to show up on a show and just leave it alone. Yeah, you got to be really diligent about. And this is where the discipline piece comes in. You know, I mean, just in the same way, you have to be disciplined about releasing content.

Yeah.

You have to be disciplined about marketing content and doing so through all of the available channels.

Yeah, I was on for my book, Scale or Fail, that came out last fall, and we did so many interviews and podcasting was phenomenal for the book.

Absolutely.

But definitely we were hustling to promote it. You know, we wanted to give back to the people that interviewed me. And plus we wanted to help get the word out there. So that is a big part of it.

It is. I mean, now, in the same way that there used to be kind of like old fashioned media tours when authors would come out with books, they would try to get on local television and local radio and the Today show, if they were lucky. Right. Any of these things. And you know, that could have huge impact. I mean, back in the day, if you appeared on the Today show, as an example, as an author, you could move like five or six thousand books from a single appearance today, that same appearance. I mean, you'd be lucky if you move five or six hundred books. Right. So you have to be more creative, even as an author and as a business person, about getting the word out about what you're doing. A podcast tour is very effective.

Yeah.

But getting on those, those bigger shows is really hard.

Well, let's, let's talk about that because you and I were talking about that because that's, you know, and we did lots of shows with the book. But now the initial launch is out. But I want to get this book. If you haven't picked it up yet, scale or fail, good book. If you haven't picked it up, run. It's in your Barnes and Noble or on Amazon. But you want to continue whatever your product or service is. Right. And so. And you've got the show Reinvention Radio, which is fantastic. And so what is the best way for people to, you know, to be a guest. To be a guest.

So we actually have. So we've got two shows now, and I'm launching a third show.

Wow.

But so we've got Reinvention Radio, which is about people who reinvented their lives and are doing, you know, they were doing A, now they're doing B, C, D, whatever, and they're changing the world, its result. And then we have beyond eight Figures, which specifically features entrepreneurs who have either exited for more than 10 million or currently run businesses that gross more than 10 million. And of course, they share their strategies for starting and scaling and in some cases, exiting. So number one is you really got to figure out which shows you want to target. Right. Like, of course, you got to listen to the shows and you got to do your homework. I Mean, if you're. If you're looking for business shows to be on, the first thing that you want to do is, of course, go to itunes and just type in business.

Right.

As a search term or whatever. Your topic of influence would be that 2, 3, 4 word description of what you do and find relevant shows. But you. You have to listen to those shows. A lot of those shows don't do interviews. A lot of those shows only interview, like a list celebrities. Right. So you got to do your homework, make sure that it's the. Right. Because if you p. A show that doesn't do interviews, you end up looking really dumb. And there's a lot of shows that's true that don't even do interviews.

Yeah.

And then there's shows that, you know, just. Let's just say they release one episode a week.

Right.

And all of their guests are like a list celebrities. You know, the odds of you breaking into that, not. Not so good. So, number one, you got to do your homework. Number two, though, I wholeheartedly believe that the real. That the. And yes, you can hire a PR firm and that sort of thing, and they might get you booked on some shows, but those are crazy expensive for most mere mortals.

Yeah.

But you can get booked on shows if you have real relationships with the influencers.

Right.

Like, that's. To me, where it all begins.

Yeah.

Is figure out what their currency is. I mean, before the show, you were like, I want to get on more shows so that, you know, we're thinking about sending everybody a book and just giving them this gift and this, that and the other. And in my mind, I'm thinking, that's not a gift, that's a burden. Like, you're sending me a book now I have a homework assignment.

Oh, that's true.

I have to read this book. I've got a million things going on. You sent me this book, and unless I know you, Right. And I really already like you or someone has already told me about the book, it's probably end up in the wrong file.

Yeah.

Right.

Because overwhelming.

It feels overwhelming. Right. So, I mean, that's one of the reasons why we do the New Media Summit where we bring in 40 top podcasters and we give people the chance over the course of three days to meet them, develop real relationships with them, and then pitch them on who they are and what they do. So they literally get booked on the spot.

And you've got to come to Steve's event for that for sure.

But I will tell you that that's the biggest difference I mean, we just released our ultimate directory of podcasters and the new version of it, because we release it all the time, updated versions. And we spend the first. I spend the first three pages telling people, don't eat. Because we give them the contact information, like, all the details about the show and even the email address, like, of all these 670 top podcasters. And I spend three pages telling them why they don't want to email them.

Okay.

Because they're not ready.

Email. Don't email.

Right. Here's the email address. Don't use it. Not yet. Because you're not ready. Because part of what you really got to think about doing is identifying what I would call and what Dr. Phil calls the currency.

Yes.

Of that particular podcaster whose show you want to be on. They always have something that they're working on. Like if you have a live event and I approached you and I said, you know, Alison, I'd love to promote you to my audience. I'd love to have you, you know, do X, Y or Z. I think I can probably get 10 to 20 people to go to your event. You're gonna be like, cool. I'll Invest, you know, 30 minutes in an interview or sit down with you for your blog or whatever. Maybe they have a charity that they support. But I will tell you this. A lot of those influencers put on live events, right? Go to that live event, meet them, enroll in their products, programs, or services. We know the people that enroll in our stuff. Some of them have half day, VIP days, full day VIP days. I mean, you want to get to know someone.

Right.

Invest in them. Otherwise it's just like you're coming in, you know, with your hand out. And our show is not a big show. I mean, Reinvention Radio is not a massive show beyond age figures. Not a massive show. We get probably 100 applications.

Yeah. As well.

For our show when we're not, you know, we're not Joe Rogan. So if we get 100 applications a month.

Yeah.

I can. I can't even fathom how many Joe Rogan gets for his show.

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, stay. It really is about building the relationships, and that's why I launched this show in the first place and been able to meet amazing people like that.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, having your own platform, that's. And I can't even. I can't even begin to tell you how many people have said yes to being on our shows that, like, in my mind I'm thinking, why did you say, like? I mean, like, Simon Sinek, shortly after Start with why really Exploded, he said yes to being a guest on Reinvention Radio. You know, people like Shalene Johnson, I mean, like the who's who of the world, when you have your own platform, if they have something that is important to them in that moment and they are looking for more eyeballs and eardrums on what they are doing, having your own platform is unbelievably powerful. So, of course we encourage people to be guests on shows.

Yeah.

But you and nowadays start a really niche show. The more niche you are, the better it's going to be, and the easier it's going to be to attract people who are really rock stars in that particular vertical.

Yeah. And, you know, there are shows on everything.

On everything.

Definitely doesn't have to be about business.

No. One of my clients, this is going back a couple of years now. There was a woman who I got to know through one of the podcasting events that are out there, and we started talking, and she was sharing about how her podcast was really suffering and just, you know, she was putting a lot of time into it. It just wasn't doing much. And we got to talking about just what she's up to and some of the things that she had done. And she had just completed a speaking gig not too long ago, and she was sharing how it was, like, the best speaking gig that she had ever given. Like, the people ran up to her after the talk, and, like, the outpouring of love was just, like, amazing. And I was like, well, what were you talking about in that? You know, in that presentation? And she said, well, I shared for the very first time that in college I had contracted genital herpes. And, you know, I was really embarrassed by that. And it's been the stigma that I've carried for all these years. And I just. I don't know, I just felt like I needed to share that. And I shared that in the presentation, there was, like, huge outpouring of love. And I was like, you know, I got to tell you, I don't know if you'll be comfortable doing this, but if you created a show that focused on and what we ended up naming it was Life with Herpes. If you create a show that is that niche specific and are willing to put yourself forward and be authentic and, you know, just be really vulnerable, I think you're gonna find a really huge audience. Because like this, you know, what is it, 1 in 6 or 1 in 4? Whatever the numbers are. I mean, whatever it is, it's, you Know, huge numbers. No one's really talking about it.

Yeah.

So if you think about that show.

So reducing the stigma around it.

Reducing stigma. Right. But if you think about that show, who are the people that are going to be listening to it? Either people who have it, people who know or love someone that does have it, or people who work in that industry. Right. In that vertical. So it's opened up really incredible doors for her. She's become the spokesperson for a product that is in that niche and so on. And, you know, look, obviously this is a. I don't want to call it an extreme example, but it's an interesting example of the fact that no matter how niche you go, you can really find and build a heck of a tribe.

And also, too, she was vulnerable.

She was vulnerable.

And I think that is really the key. And, you know, for me, sometimes, because I'm interviewing, so it's all about the guests. So I do think it's. Sometimes it's good to do a show where you don't have guests. Like you were talking about that, where you can really get deeper and have your audience get to know you.

Yeah. I mean, you can obviously do an interview show, but even then, if you have your own show, you can intersperse just what I might call sort of like soapbox episodes, which is just you talking about a particular subject, so you don't have a guest. Or you could do like. Like an FAQ show. You know, here's what business owners always ask me about X. So I want to take 10 minutes now and I want to answer that question, because I think this will help you too. Right. So. Yeah, yeah. And of course, there's other options as well. I mean, we do ours Morning Zoo style, where it's me and a couple of other co hosts and then we bring in guests that join us. So there's lots of different format options.

Right. Just be creative now. What about the people out there listening going, well, I'd love to do it, but I'm just so scared. Or what if I don't do it? Right. Technology's overwhelming. What if I say the wrong thing?

Yeah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And you will.

Guess what? You will.

And that's the reality. And some of those episodes that we've had over the years of doing Reinvention Radio and now beyond 18 figures, I mean, some of our best episodes were the people who were so nervous and who had never been a guest on anything before. You know, as a matter of fact, it's. It's kind of counterintuitive. From the standpoint of you don't have to be famous to be a guest on shows. As a matter of fact, we actually prefer when you're not famous, you know, getting the Tim Ferrisses or the Gary Vaynerchuk or the Seth Godins or the Simon Sinek's of the world onto your show. I mean, yes, it's challenging, but at the same token, you know, we know who those people are. We don't need to hear from them any more than we already have. I mean, let's be honest, you know, Tim's all about the hack, Gary's all about the hustle, Seth's all about Mark. Like, we know who these people are and what they stand for. We don't know you. Right. And we don't know your story. And I will tell you that there are thousands upon thousands of hosts just like me that would much rather feature someone and kind of break the story of someone that the world hasn't heard from a million times. And we take great pride in being amongst the first to share those stories and break those stories. And so I will tell you that.

Actually in this super smart, super cool people that have an incredible story.

Absolutely. Yeah. In this medium, it actually works to your detriment if you're super famous, believe it or not.

Wow, that's. That's pretty, pretty cool. And I mean, just the power of the. The impact. I was on Impact Theory. That's a good show recently for my book. And. Wow, that was. I mean, book sales just totally exploded after that.

Yeah, there are. There are definitely shows that have tremendous reach. And. And I will tell you this, that, you know, even if you've never been a guest on a show before, don't let that stop you from dipping your toe in the water.

Yeah.

Putting yourself out there, you know, it's one of those things where, like, you wouldn't want your first television interview to have been Oprah right back in her heyday.

Yeah.

It's the same thing with podcasting. You wouldn't want your first podcast interview to be on one of these massive shows. You want to start with some of the smaller shows.

Yeah. And a PR firm will tell you that also. So before you would get on, let's say, today's show, they would want you to be on a lot of local networks to practice.

Absolutely.

So I remember one of my first interviews, I was on a local station, and I didn't know where you were supposed to look. Nobody said anything. So I was doing like this. And then my friend Sam Zion. Sam the cooking guy, he called me, he goes, where were you looking? You were looking all over the place. So just little things like, you know, looking at you. So. Because sometimes it is a little bit confusing, but it's, you know, practice on a smaller audience.

Absolutely.

So, well, this is cool. So what? So just best advice, just how to get started.

So be really clear on, number one, your topic of influence. Right. Again, the two or three or four word description of what it is that you focus on. So be really clear on that. Create great hooks, if you will, that gets the producers and the host's attention. Now, that's easier said than done, but I will tell you that you've got about 30 seconds to pass what my friend Sam Horn calls the eyebrow test, which is if you can't get a podcast host or producer to kind of raise their eyebrows and go, tell me more about that, then you're probably going to end up in, you know, in that round file. So you got to have some creative hooks and make it super easy for the podcast host or the producer to understand the value add that you're going to bring to their audience. Because frankly, I mean, you could have the best pedigree in the world. We don't care. What we care about is the fact that we've spent years upon years building up our loyal, borderline fanatic followings, and we want to just add as much value for that audience as we can can out of respect for them and being a part of our tribe. So if you can articulate not only, of course, what that hook is and what that topic would be, and maybe two or three or four topics that you can discuss also include in that pitch, what's the value add that you bring to the table in terms of what's the audience going to get out of that appearance, what's the takeaway, what's tangible, what's implementable, etc. And then, of course, you've just got to get it in the hands of the right people. And if you don't have a media one sheet, probably want to have one of those as well, which encapsulates who you are and what you do and testimonials and so on and so forth, literally on one piece of paper, that'll help.

Yeah, that's great. And you know, talking about scaling, which is. That's what this show is all about. Podcasting is a great way to scale because you're moving that conversation from one to one to one to many.

Yeah, yeah, it's a great way to scale, for sure. And again, the beautiful thing about being a guest on podcast is it doesn't cost you anything. If somebody charges you to be a guest on the show. I want you to run quickly in the other direction.

Right, Yeah. A lot of our clients, I've like, what? No way.

Yeah. So every lead that you generate, you know, the ROI is exponential. Every dollar that you generate, I mean, the ROI is exponential.

How does someone monetize a podcast?

As a host or as a guest? Two different things. But either way, you really just need to make sure that you are bouncing people. That's the oper word. Bouncing people from that platform, from that world of podcasting into your ecosystem so that you can have an ongoing conversation with them. Of course, that means it really starts. And again, this is like not rocket science, because this has been going on for some time now. This is a term that I'm sure you're familiar with. But to this day, you still need to have a really good lead magnet.

Yeah.

Something that people will provide their name and email address to get.

Yeah.

And it has to be a brain dead simple. Yes. Like, this is just an incredible resource because again, there's a cost. The cost to me as a consumer of providing my name and email address is like, I'm gonna end up on another list. I don't want to be on another list. But like our ultimate directory of podcasters, which has 670 podcasters in it with all of their detailed contact information. It's kind of like that's a good opt in. Right. So it's kind of like, all right, fine, I'll give my name and email address and I can unsubscribe at any time. But because the value is there, then people are really prone to say yes to that. And so you have to have a really great lead magnet. That's what still starts the conversation. I don't care whether you have your own show or you're a guest on someone else's. You have to get them into your world so you can communicate with them and then introduce them to relevant products, programs, or services that can help them along their journey.

Fantastic. And I know you're on the edge of your seat, so we want to give you the link so that you can get that. But also you have a program profiting from podcasts. That's all things, you know, A to Z, every part of podcasting. Can you share with us a little bit about that?

Yeah. So profiting from podcasts is sort of the umbrella of it all. And there's really two courses in One. So the core profiting from podcast training teaches people how to land those coveted appearances on leading podcasts. So how to pitch, how to present, and then how to profit. So it takes them through everything from landing those coveted appearances to how to be a great guest and then how to monetize that visibility. The second piece that we also include is a whole separate course called launch your podcast. So we teach people from start to finish how to make and how to market and how to monetize their own podcast. And so those two courses are under that profiting from podcast umbrella. And then one of the cool things is we actually give folks a ticket to the new media summit as well. And that's our one of a kind event that we do twice a year where everyday folks, coaches, authors, speakers, holistic practitioners, business owners, etcetera, have the chance to come and spend three full days with a hundred. Well, with 40 tops. It's 150 guests spending three full days with 40 top podcasters. It is the only event where all the attendees take center stage and they get to pitch everyone in attendance, including the podcasters, on who they are and what they do, and they literally get booked on the spot. So we include a ticket to the summit, we include a media one sheet. So if you don't have a media one sheet, we build that out for you. The ultimate directory and some other bonuses.

Super, super valuable. So where can people, where do they start to get all this?

I mean, look again, I would wholeheartedly recommend starting with being a guest on a show. Right.

No, I mean to get your product.

Yes. So. So they should start with getting the ultimate directory of podcast.

Okay, perfect. Yes, perfect. So where do they get that?

That's. Yeah, right. So best URL. Let's just do myultimate directory.com so 670 leading podcasters, contact information, the whole nine.

Myultimate directory.com myultimate directory.com we'll list that down in the lower thirds here. And this is so fantastic. You got my wheels turning. You're always learning something new. Because, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, but it's. It's changed. It changes all the time. You got to stay on top of everything. So thank you for joining us for the scale or fail show and this was awesome.

Steve, thank you for having me.

Thanks for being with us. And we. If you are interested in learning more about how to scale your business, go to alisonmaslin.com forward/CEO. You can also, as I said, make sure you grab our new book Scale or fail. It is endorsed by Barbara Corcoran and Damon John of Shark Tank. And also you can listen to this show while you are on the treadmill. Our audio version on itunes. We also have a video version as well on all platforms that carry podcasts. So until next time, get out there and elevate yourself because you are worth it. Bye, everybody.

People always talk about they want to be part of seven figure companies. I'm now part of seven, eight and nine figure companies. I've been introduced to some of the largest corporations, Fortune 500 companies, and it's with Alison's help. She's kind of expanded my horizons and my capabilities. And I think that's the most important thing. Where she expands, she makes, you know what you can do and be successful at that.

Being with Alison and being able to learn who to hire and why to hire and how to develop a passionate, creative, inspired team was really, really important for me because I needed to shift some energy and my business and I feel like with her help, I've really done that. Pinnacle helped me grow my company to where at this point a year ago, I'm making, I made a million more than I did at this point last year. So I really wanted to break that ceiling. I've hit that ceiling for several years in a row and Pinnacle has helped me do that by implementing the thought. It's actually just a thought process and how you view your company and how you view what you're doing. I think a lot of us entrepreneurs are hard on ourselves and are hard on our companies when it's not that we shouldn't be that way. So I think it's just looking at things a little bit differently, putting into practice the systems that she teaches us. For example, if you want an example, putting people in place to where I want my business to be at in two, three years. So I've got people right now in place. And it's wild. It's just like it's all the work is coming in and we're in place and we're not stressed out. And it's just amazing. It's just an amazing place to be. What I love most about being in the Pinnacle is constant access to support. So whether it be my mastermind group or the recorded resources that Alison has produced for us, or the constantly cutting edge information that's coming to us on social media, Facebook ads, how to connect, conduct webinars, you name it, we have a resource for it. So since joining Pinnacle, we've added 12 new positions to the company.

We've increased revenue about 43%. We've increased profit by 111% this year. More importantly, I've gotten out of some roles that I was in like QA manager. And some of the marketing things that I was doing are now outsourced or.

Not outsourced in sourced to a team member. And I've really focused in on running.

The business instead of letting it run me. Coaching opportunities out there and a lot of times I'm a little bit suspicious. It's kind of a sales job. Are they in it for themselves? Are they in it for me? And at no time have I ever felt with Pinnacol that my best interest was not number one priority. And it's truly an organization and not just Allison and the coaches, but everyone there. It's coming from a place of giving and working for mutual benefit. A lot of sharing going on and that's a great team to work with.

Right off the bat. I laid a foundation for my coaching practice and I increased my prices and within one week I had signed two high paying clients that had basically paid for my coaching program with Allison. And since then my income has doubled every single month. It's been tremendous. But being a part of the community has been the greatest asset. I've been so fortunate and blessed to befriend so many other amazing entrepreneurs who I learn from on a regular basis who always have my back. Like minded people that I surround myself with and the environment is so positive. I just cannot speak highly enough of it and I am always compelled to share it with everyone I know. I feel it is the biggest gift to introduce and share this opportunity to connect with this kind of community with everybody that I know. Don't be the company like I was. Be the in business for over 12 years. Looking back and saying what did I do in the last 10 years? Do it now. Now is all we have. We don't have the past and we don't have the future. All we have is now. I've been in business for 21 years now and I've worked with a number of business coaches and I watched Alison for four years and the results that her clients had when they worked with her. And I finally decided this is the next coach that I'm going to hire because she is the real deal. She is available to her people. She absolutely cares deeply about each and every individual and the success of their business. And you know what? We have to in business take risks. And sometimes taking risk is hiring that new coach. This is a risk worth taking. There is nothing like it. I can't even explain what the opportunity and the learning that comes with Pinnacle. Don't even think about it. Because if you think about it, that's the number one thing that will hold you back. Just do it.

You won't regret it.

You just need to do it. I mean, you have to stop being on the fence.

You have to get off.

The fence is boring. The fence is. Honestly, I was on the fence for. Oh, gosh. I was on the fence for maybe two years, and it was a horrible fence to sit on. I hated the fence because the fence kept me stuck. And it was when I finally jumped off the fence that my business skyrocketed.