Are dance competitions becoming too focused on "winning"?

Hello friends, I'm Amanda Barr.

And I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan, and welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast.

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This is the Dance Principles United podcast. Hey friends, and welcome back to the Dance Principles United podcast. We're getting towards Towards the end of comp season, Beck, has it been a big one for you?

Look, I don't do as many comps as you. I feel like you're at a comp every weekend.

Sure am.

Literally are.

My kids love it though, it's interesting.

I know, but far out. I do 4 a year. We've done 3 of the 4, so we've got 1 more left.

And then nationals too.

And then we do nationals.

Yes.

Which is, oh God, even you just saying that, I have so much anxiety. I literally get like butterflies in my stomach.

Yep.

Just saying the word Nationals, it's gonna be so much.

I was like just looking at Bec going, oh, it's a lot. But gosh, the kids love it, right? That's why we do it.

Have I told you how many private kids we've got going to Nationals?

No.

I think we've got like 6. Nearly 100 soloists going to Nationals.

Whoa! So how many routines is that?

I don't know.

Best not to think about it.

Last year I had 8 kids there, and I felt exhausted after that. 8.

Okay, so 100. And a lot of them, I imagine, have—

6 routines.

6 routines, yeah.

You know, in America they don't do that? No, they don't? This is totally off topic, as usual, Amanda and I. Tell me. So, in America they do 1 routine, and if they do 2, it's pretty unheard of. And that's it for the whole year. And they think it's crazy. I'm in an American group chat, a parent chat, I don't know why I'm in it.

Just randomly.

It's

like the Facebook chats you get into.

It came up on my feed the other day and someone was like, just wanna get everyone's thoughts on doing 2 routines this year. We haven't done it before. And then people underneath were like, I did 2 routines this year and it was the biggest mistake we've ever done.

Crazy, right?

And in Australia we do, 5, 6 routines.

I've got— yeah, I had kids at Nationals doing 9, 10, 11. Even not super, like, just like mid-range kids doing 8.

Crazy.

Yeah, because they feel like they want to get their money's worth, especially at Nationals. So they do like, obviously do, you know, one of every style, but then they do the Dancer of the Year or the Miss Get the Beat, or, you know, those extra kind of sections as well.

Yeah. But in America, it's way more expensive to enter as well. I think it's like $400 or something to enter one solo. Wow. In a comp. Yeah, it's like— but it's just a very different way of doing things. But that's kind of what we wanted to talk about today.

Absolutely, we did.

Is different ways that studios are at competitions. Because I do often look at different studios and think like, how are you with the kids at a comp? What sort of things are you doing? Because I always want to step up. I always want to try and improve every experience for my kids. And, you know, I'm very competitive, as you know. And so then I'm at comp wanting the kids to do well. That's very important to me. But we also have to have them have fun. And so it's just like that whole—

Yeah, and it's interesting, right? Like, as I'm sure so many of you have seen, there's all the different studio owners or teachers at the comp. There's the one that's rehearsing them stressed, going, it's time to do it now, let's go, let's go. No, that position's wrong, go again, go again. We've all seen that studio owner. I've been

that.

Absolutely. The one that's frantically doing a position change last minute for the kid that was sick.

Also that studio owner.

Always the last, 'cause there's always a kid that's sick, right?

Yes. Or broke their leg or vomited.

Or something happens. Yep, there's always that kid. There can't not be that kid, especially if you have 100, 200, the chances are someone's gonna be sick that day and can't make it. All of those versions. There's the one that's frantically trying to like change costumes around because the kid missed, forgot the hairpiece or the, you know, the gloves don't fit or whatever that is. Then there's the teachers that are like just chilling and mucking around with the kids. Then there's the teachers that can't be anywhere to be found. Like there's that as well. There's so many different versions.

So many.

Who are you at the moment? Which teacher are you?

We still run the kids. and make sure that they're super confident to go on, but I don't feel like we're cray-cray with it.

So like, how many times would you run them?

Well, it depends on who it is and where they're at and whether they do it and it's a hot mess and we feel like it needs to be done again. And we will stop and correct things as well. Yeah. So we do do that. There's one studio that I know that gets to comp They only put their 6s, for example, in one division, and they run them like a lesson. They actually take them for a lesson for like an hour before they go on stage.

Ah, do like full like warm-up?

Warm-up, go through it, talk about their timing, clean it.

Get them in the right headspace.

They win every time.

There you go.

They win every single time. It's an interesting concept when you think about it.

Absolutely, and especially for little kids, does that give them that sense of normalcy? Normalcy?

Normality is the word you're looking for.

That could be the word. My English teacher would be very upset listening to me right now. I swear that word had a C in it. Anyway, this is not the one. But it gives them the routine that they're used to and what it's like in a normal class situation because You know, for some kids rocking up to a comp is stressful and scary, whereas getting back to basics with them can be a great thing. You know, and there's so many different versions. What do you feel like works well, doesn't work well? What's your general vibe on it?

We're trying to give out like cute little things for them now each comp. And this is a funny story. I don't think I've told you this story. So one of our Studio Growth Club members, started this thing in her studio called Lucky Ducks. Have you heard about this? Abby from— Oh yeah. So she— they're like these little eggs, and then inside each egg is a different type of duck. Yes. And she started giving them—

From like Temu and stuff. Yeah.

And now it's become like this whole thing in her studio. And yeah, so I was like, oh, I'm gonna steal that and I'm gonna get Lucky Ducks. So I went to Temu and I ordered— you know, we've got 220 comp kids, so the seniors did not need the Lucky Ducks, but we ordered 200 of the Lucky Then the seniors are

upset they didn't get the lucky ducks yet.

And I opened the box, Amanda, and it was not a duck, it was an octopus.

So they're lucky octopus now.

I went to chat and I said, find me a name, and it's a lucky octo. And so then I was like, so then I gave out the lucky octos, but it was a whole moment, you know, and the kids all got the egg and then we let them open it together and each one got their different colors and things, and then they loved it. It's the squishy octopus. And so creating memories like that, I think, is very, very important. Um,

it's so cute. Yeah, because I presume they cost you nothing, and it's like the blind box thing, you know, the opening, and everyone gets their own one to collect and take home. Like, I know Sassy, who's in 8 and unders, would live for that.

Yes,

she would absolutely just like— that's what she'd want to show me, and that should— that would make her day.

And that's what they remember. Yeah. And now for the last comp, I'm trying to think of something really clever. And I feel like I'm gonna go next level maybe and even get a plushie that's like season 26 or— I don't

know. Like it.

I think there needs to be more of that.

Yes.

Because if it's just go in, do your comp, oh, we didn't place very well, or we did, does it really matter? Um, and then walk out, it's just such a non-event.

Yeah.

Um, this time, which I've never done before, but it worked really well, we actually— because normally I just leave the trophies and ribbons and don't care about it, but because the kids did well, and I guess if they didn't do well I probably wouldn't do this, but we went and got the ribbons, gave them all their ribbons and a trophy, and actually took a photo of them. I know I noticed another studio doing that, that's why I did it. I was like, that's actually a really smart thing to do. Um, and because it wasn't so back to back, you had— we had— the team had time to do that. But I even, I said to you, I saw one of the studios just playing games, like that game where you put your phone up to your forehead and it's got a word and they have to try and guess. Yeah, it's

like a charades-y kind of game. Charades, yeah.

And they were having a great time doing that. And I just, that even made me think. I was like, I should be doing more fun gamey stuff with the kids like that. I do with the seniors. I think we always do fun stuff, but probably not as much as I should with the 6s, for example.

Yeah, and probably because the seniors are a bit more relaxed. You know what you're gonna get on stage. There's not such a like, oh, I wonder if they're gonna remember the dance today. Like, you know what you're gonna get, so you have a bit more time and headspace beforehand to have fun with them. But yeah, it's just as important to have fun with the 6s, right? More so in a lot of ways.

Yes, and I think we do do things, but probably not enough of— like, I should be training the team more on to do that, to play charades, to— because they, they should be having that great fun experience.

Yeah, absolutely. Look, Um, you know, this, uh, the studio that my girls dance at, like Ali and the team at Dance Sensations do an incredible job of this. Yes, they are. They, they make it super fun. And, you know, sometimes it's like, you know, laughing at themselves so that the kids can feel more comfortable. For example, like 2 of the teachers will do like a dance battle and the kids will like cheer for who they think the winner's gonna be. Or they'll do like fun TikToks with them. Or, you know, the teachers will do like handstand challenges and like silly things like that. But you know, Sassy will come back and tell me that that's what they did. She's like, oh my God, you know, Miss Ali won the handstand, or she can do the splits, or you know, whatever it is, something funny like that that she thought was hilarious with seeing her teachers have a bit of fun, a bit of a giggle with them, I guess. Um, and I feel like that kind of like, yeah, I don't know, diffuses the stress levels a little bit sometimes. I think it's a really clever idea. Very clever. You know, and that's something Like I always struggled with that with the kids, to be honest, to be completely honest, 'cause that's not my personality.

Yeah.

You know, I would be more like, cool, like great job, I can do that. But, you know, can I sit there and do a TikTok with them? Not so much, it's just not me. But, you know, it's finding what works for you and your studio and your culture and whether that's, you know, putting team members on that, getting the assistants to do that part, like whatever it is to make it work so that the kids get the best experience.

It's interesting too, because I was talking to you about this before. When you make everything about winning or where they place, you're really setting yourself up to fail.

Yeah.

And we know it's so subjective as well. Like, we won things on the weekend that I didn't think we should have, and then there's other sections where I thought we should. That's just normal, right?

Absolutely.

So you've got to try and think of the comp as being about so much more than that. Yeah. And that the winning is not the important part. And I think there's a lot of studios I watch that the winning is everything. And the kids come off stage and we high-five those kids as like— this is a thing that we've always done. So as they're coming off stage, we high-five every child.

Yep.

Even if I think they did the worst job ever, which often I do.

Yep.

I would never ever say that to them ever as they come off the stage. I always am just like, great job, you're amazing, that was so good. Now, back in the day I would have told them, but I've learnt not to do that.

Yes,

so

you're gonna have a better, you know, discussing that in class next week, that's gonna be a better experience for the kids, right? Keep them in the mood and high energy while they're there.

Sure, but I know there's a lot of teams that I see coming off the stage at lots of different Esthedfords and the teacher's cranky with them and it's not good enough and then we shouldn't even be here and You know, and it's just like, what are you doing that for?

Yeah, absolutely.

That's just making such a bad experience. The kids are gonna feel more stressed, they're gonna cry.

Yep.

You know, it's just— there's stuff like that that's just so bizarre.

Yeah.

And also doing too many routines. I feel like that's a lot as well.

Yep.

I'm again thinking more about this now. I'm like, do we need to be doing 2 jazzes, 2 lyricals, 2 taps, It's a lot of pressure. In every section, and then the kids are trying to get changed.

And there's quick changes, and oh my God, I gotta get changed, I've gotta change my hair, and I've gotta— yeah, I think there's that as well, just talking about the gotta change my hair and stuff like that. You know, putting that unnecessary stress, like it's already enough to change a costume, think about another routine, just leave the hair the same freaking way. Like—

What do you mean? People change their hair?

At comps, yeah. Some studios do. Your face. Absolutely. And I

had done that in the past. We put a bun in for ballet.

Yeah, of course.

But what do you mean, from like a low pony to a high pony at a comp?

Yeah, absolutely. You're joking. No, I am not joking. And I've done that in the past for sure. Like this routine has 2 buns and then we change it. And like, you know, I'd never put that on the parents, always did it myself. But like, and then change all their hair into a ponytail, for example, from 2 buns.

Oh, that is, that is funny. I have definitely done that.

That's funny. I've definitely done that at comps. Really? But now thinking about it, I'd be like, oh my God, that is just way too stressful for the kids and it's too much pressure.

I've done crazy hair at comp.

Yeah.

The worst year they had to sew in, sew in a mohawk. I'm not joking. They had needle and thread.

Yep.

And they had to sew in a mohawk at every single comp. And now I'm like, Probably after I had Bebe, who one, hated getting her hair done and hated putting makeup on. Now I do a low slick pony for everyone except 6s, who I do 2 buns.

Yep.

The end.

Yep.

Even the 2 buns I feel is a lot, but at least then they don't have to change from ballet to, you know, that the hair is staying the same for those little people.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because you just want to make it easy, right? And stress-free. And I guess I think just coming to that as well, making sure that as studio owners and teachers, that we aren't hyperfixating on things like, things that the kids can't fix, because they feel our stress levels. Even if you don't say it to the kid, they can feel what the teachers, they can see their energy change for the kid that forgot their hairpiece, for the kid that lost their ribbon or their whatever. Number one, does it really matter? Like, parents are gonna lose shit. Like, it's not ideal, but shit happens, right? Um, you stressing about it, you, uh, projecting that energy onto the kid or to the parent, it doesn't actually solve the problem. There's still no hairpiece for the kid. So like, either just be okay with it or have the spares there or whatever it is, but there's no point projecting that because it's just making a bad experience. They still don't have the bloody hairpiece. We

had that a few times over the weekend and I had teacher come up and go, this Lily doesn't have her hairpiece in. Do you want to take them all out or do you want to just leave it? I'm like, leave it, who cares? Yeah, why do you care?

Yeah, and also don't punish the other kids because Lily's—

Yes, and also like, don't stress Lily out about it.

Yeah, I'm

like, it's fine,

because then she'll be embarrassed because then the other kids will be like, oh, because you forgot it, we've all got to take it out, and everyone then hates on her. That's not fair either.

And if the judge is gonna lose marks for that, then

who cares?

Yeah,

absolutely.

I don't— I really don't think most judges would though.

No, I don't.

They kind of get it.

Yeah, I think most adjudicators have been teachers. They see it. And like, if the dancing's great, the dancing's great, regardless of whether one girl has a hairpiece in or not. Like, that's not the end of the world. But I think the biggest thing that I— we should leave our listeners with, I guess, is, you know, to actually like give this some thought. Mm. And like have a bit of a plan and talk to your team. If you have a team that comes with you, even if it's just, you know, the 16-year-olds that follow you around that wanna be there to help, you know, my daughter just wants to go in and help, which is great, and I'm sure a lot of studio owners have that, but you need to talk to them all about what the expectation is. Because if you kind of just like play it by ear on the day, that's when you kind of are floundering and you make mistakes and do, things that you don't wanna do. Whereas if you have some like, yes, things change on the day, but some non-negotiable rules like, hey, no one is ever going to make a kid feel bad about losing a hairpiece, for example. We're gonna run routines and hopefully have time to play some games. We're gonna make sure we make it a positive experience. Just some generalized rules like that. I think it's important to train your team on it, right?

Absolutely, and I think trying to think Guys, if you've listened to this and gone, crap, I'm not making comp a fun enough experience, how can you make it a more fun experience? Not just for the kids, but for the parents, for everybody. Like, stressful enough as is, we don't need to add more stress to the day of it.

Feels amazing. Well, I hope you got something out of this podcast. Uh, thanks so much for listening, guys.

Thanks, friends. Bye.

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