How Katrina grew her dance studio from 50 to 100+ students

Hello friends, I'm Amanda Barr.

And I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan, and welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast.

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Well, hi friends, it's Bec here from the Dance Principles United podcast. Welcome to the Dance Principles United podcast. We are in Fiji and I am here with one of my favorite Studio Growth Club members, Katrina. How are you, Katrina?

I am great, Bec, and hello everybody.

We are so excited to be— it's beautiful here, isn't it?

Oh my gosh, what a great setting to have a podcast.

I know. Well, we are at our SGC retreat. It has been epic. We're actually on the morning of day 2, so we haven't experienced day 2 yet, but day 1 was pretty cool. But Katrina is one of the most incredible studio owners we have in Studio Growth Club. You have over 1,000 students I

do, I do, absolutely.

That in itself is crazy. So I know you guys are gonna love this episode. We're gonna learn so much today with her, and I learn every time that I speak to her. But I guess the first thing is, tell us about your studio.

Okay, so Tappa has been around for 27 years. I bought it actually in 1999, and it was just a hobby business. So I bought it off the studio owner then, but it was a Johnny Young Talent School first.

Stop it!

Yeah, so it progressed from there to Tappa. And yeah, we've just— we started off in just little halls, school hall and council hall, and then we sourced our own building, which we still are in now, which has 6 studios. Yeah, purpose-built for us, which was fabulous, which we now own, which is even more fabulous. Wow. But yeah, that's how we started and just grew from there.

What does TAPA stand for?

Townsville Academy of Performing Arts.

See, that makes so much sense.

Yeah, too long, hey?

Well, I have the same problem. So mine's Performing Arts Western Sydney. Correct. But it's like, pause, then people don't really relate it to dance.

Although some people do think we only teach tap, which I'm happy with. I love tap.

Oh yeah, okay. Would you change your name? Like, now I would change my name. Obviously I can't change my name, but would you change the name?

No, I love it. Do you?

Oh, you're so positive. You're such a positive person. So where did you— did you grow up at Johnny Young Talent School?

No, no, I grew up at a dance studio in Townsville, and from there I had the passion for ballet. I was going to be a ballerina. That was it. So off I went to Sydney. Sydney when I was 16 going 17 and joined the Sydney Dance Company— School, sorry, Sydney City School. And it was run by Tanya Pearson.

Yep.

And then I went along to a musical and saw a little old musical called Chicago and went, heck no, I'm jazz. So my life trajectory changed. I wanted to be a jazz dancer. Oh wow. But always my first and foremost was having fun with the kids. So I knew that that's where my desire lied. My passion was with those children. So I really never sort of sourced a professional career in that respect, but I knew, especially in my days, we had to go away to learn from others because there was no social media to learn or internet. So we went away full-time to learn from others, experience dance at a whole different world.

Yeah, that's amazing. And did you actually do any jazz performing professionally, or you kind of tried it and didn't like it?

Yeah, no, I did a little bit, just random sort of studio owner gigs, basically. Right. So that was that all. And then I went home and I did my hairdressing apprenticeship because I thought, I need a backup job because this dance thing was hard. So I become a hairdresser, which was, yeah, a moment in my life that didn't stick around for too long. I finished it, but I just love— I didn't love the, the, oh gosh, Mrs. Jones is coming in for a perm. And whereas I just love the unexpected of what's going to happen in my dance class today. I like that more.

So did you do any hairdressing at all?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you still do it?

Oh, on me?

Could you cut it?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But no, I don't.

I find that insane how people can cut— it sounds so dumb, but so straight. And I think it's actually— is it easier than it looks?

Yeah, you get out the spirit level. No, you don't. I'm kidding.

All right, so you became a hairdresser. Yeah. None of this is expected.

No. And then did my teaching qualifications.

Which organization?

With the— it was then the FATD, which is now ADA.

Right.

But I don't actually teach that syllabus anymore. Yeah. But you know, that's— you've got to find what's right for your fit. Of course. For your studio. So yeah, I did that as well. And then I went actually back to Sydney and just did a couple of years freelancing and working really hard. I think we had about 5 jobs between me and my husband. Oh wow. Just to survive, you know. Yeah.

Was it— was one of them a teaching job?

Yeah, absolutely. At a studio in Parramatta. But don't ask me because I can't remember. It was so long ago. There's not many studios in Parramatta. I'd have to really rack my brain. Oh wow. That's a conversation for later.

Okay, so you went back to Sydney, taught.

Yeah.

And then what led you to your studio?

And always wanted to do that, but anyway, we came back and this is when I had my first baby, my little son Jamison. And that's when I kind of started working for someone, and then the Johnny Young Studio came to me and said, oh, we need a teacher. And I went, oh, okay. And then I saw the potential in the studio, which didn't have a syllabus, didn't have— I think about 50 students, and I thought Hmm, I like this. This is fun. Maybe she had a daughter that was dancing and wanted to go as a career. So once, once that had finished, I just went, pick me, can I buy your studio?

Wow. And how much did you buy it for?

$10,000.

Yeah, we have such a similar journey. It's actually like very similar. I also went to Tanya Pearson.

Oh wow.

Yeah, I like was on the Central Coast. I know it's not Townsville, but it was quite rural back then. And then Yeah, I bought my studio for $14,000.

Wow. There you go.

And I was the main teacher there.

Yep. That was the only teacher.

I think it had 79 kids when I bought it.

Crazy, hey?

Yeah, we're very— that's crazy. I didn't realize how similar we were. That's insane. And so then you went from 50 kids to thousands.

It was a long way. There's been 27 years between that.

No, but even when I met you, you had a huge school. So what What do you think? Did you know about the marketing straight away or did it take time?

The first thing we did when we actually bought the business and moved into a purpose building was did the old flyer drop. And that was phenomenal. That was the way to go in those days. And we just went from 50 to 500 almost within weeks. Did you? Yeah, it was just crazy. And in those days also too, you didn't keep a waitlist. You didn't. You just kind of rock up and do a class and pay as you come. And holy moly, it was a little overwhelming.

And you have the cash box.

Correct, yeah. Which ran out of change because it was so many people, but yeah, live and learn.

Yeah, okay, so you went from 50 to 500 in a very short space of time.

Correct.

Did you then need to get more team in? Like, that would have been crazy.

Yeah, I had the team, but it was then it was more like, well, we need to cap the classes, start a waitlist, be a little bit more professional, dare I say, you know, have everything written down. Yeah, but I mean, we had roles because obviously fire safety and everything else, but It was just a different way of learning, you know. You had to reach out and go, how do I do this now?

And how many kids did you have at that point of your own?

My own? 3.

How old?

Um, I think when we did the studio, Tiana was about 2 or 3. That's my youngest. Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

That's absolutely—

But just supportive of your family, thank goodness. Yes. And a very supportive husband, so that was amazing.

Yep. Yeah, yeah. I think you've got to have those people around you surrounding you to be really Absolutely.

Just to put those shoes on and walk out the door.

And then how did you get from 500 to 1,000?

I have no idea. No. Hard work. Hard work. Being true to myself. I didn't want to do what the others did. I wanted to be me. I wanted to have the type of culture that was just welcoming and fun. And I wanted the kids to learn not just in those days an older style of jazz, but be able to be equipped for when they do move away. I found that sometimes in my day that you'd move away from a rural place and you weren't equipped, you didn't understand the styles. So I really wanted to make sure that the studios and the students had that ability with them. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess just being true to myself and what I saw, my vision, and what I wanted for the students, you know, and being real, being authentic, dare I say that word. Yeah, believing in what you have to offer rather than looking sideways all the time. Just go, this is what I've got, this is who I am, and those who appreciate will, and those who it doesn't fit with, that's okay too. Yeah.

And do you consistently keep— do you just keep marketing? Because that's a huge number to sustain.

Yeah.

And I, like, I've known you for 5 or 6 years now, and you've sustained that the whole time.

Yep, absolutely.

Like, how are you sustaining it? In today's day and age. I think back in the day, not saying it was easy, but I feel like it was different. But now there's probably more noise in your area. That's insane. It's incredible.

Consistently marketing, yes, absolutely. And like every dance studio will tell you, it's got to come from the bottom up. So you have to have that love and passion for those preschoolers so that they can find the love and passion, the joy in dance, and they Just keep coming. Yeah. But retention has to be a lot of how they feel where they come, how the parents feel. Do they feel heard if they need to be heard? And I hope that I do that. And if not, then please come and have a conversation with me. Yeah, I think it's having your door open.

Yep.

Yeah. So that you can work out the little glitch. And there's always going to be little glitches. Always.

Yeah, always. And you don't have a big competition side to your school. Tell me about that.

I'm happy to help the students if they want to do competition, absolutely there all the way, private lessons. And, you know, but I find that without segregating our comp kids, our rec kids, having them all together brings the rec kids up. It helps the comp kids to be more humble in some ways, and We don't have a lot of comps up there, so they'd have to travel, and that's hard, and it's often during school. And for us, it's not easy to get from point A to point B for a comp the next day. So yeah, I think for us, just having everybody and everybody loving what they are doing. But those children who want that extra work, it's there for them. Absolutely.

You've got such a high level, like, how do you keep the motivation? Is it through the exams? Is it—

Yeah, but even that, we don't— there's not a lot of students that don't do exams. Right. But we do the exam work, so that level has to be achieved anyway. So it's not stepping back and not doing all the things, all the stepping stones to get to, you know, that higher level or a higher achievement.

How many concerts do you do? If you have 1,000 kids, you must be doing a lot of concerts.

Yeah, okay, yeah, we've cut back a little bit. Have you? Yeah, we have the 2 preschooler concerts, then with this I think it's our 3rd year of breaking our concerts up more into age groups. Then we have a 5 and 6 concert, and then we have what we call our main concerts, which are 3 larger concerts.

Right.

So what's that? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm interested in that because we have our troupe concert all together at the moment, but I feel like this is probably the last year I can do it because we have— did you find then that your senior concert, not many people come to? That would be my concern because I know 4, 5, 6s Like the 6s troupe, for example, that's where it's at, right? Yeah.

That's where you're gonna have— Aunts and uncles and neighbors.

And then I'm like, is the seniors then gonna be awkward?

Well, no, because I put my 7s and 8s on one night with the 13s and overs. Then I put my 9s and 10s on the next night with the 13s and overs.

That sounds so obvious.

And put my 11s and 12s the last night with the 13s and overs.

Right, so the seniors get to do a few different performances.

Yeah, 3 performances.

Yeah, that would be better. Okay, I've always wondered how people do that. That's so obvious.

Yeah, it still makes for a longer concert. Yes. But it allows then parents not have to be there for every 3 nights in a row.

Yep.

Unless unfortunately they have a few children.

Yep. Craziest thing that's ever happened in your studio?

I guess last year we had a car come through the front doors of the studio.

Well, I kind of knew this answer, but that was insane.

It was insane. I wasn't there, and I wasn't there that morning, and I get this frantic phone call from my daughter. Oh, it was in the morning? It was in the morning.

Right, I didn't realize that.

Frantic phone call from my daughter, like, there's no car. And of course we all go, was it stolen?

Yeah, of course.

But unfortunately it wasn't, which was, you know, beautiful lady and very, very sorry, but it's okay. Everybody was good. But yeah, that was the biggest thing. And I think that was the hardest thing of like, oh my gosh, insurance. Okay, who does the building? The body corporate. Okay, who does the front counter? Oh yeah, that's contents. Um, who else do we have to contact? Yeah, it was like mind-blowing. But yeah, yeah, it's all, it's all packed up. We managed to renovate a little too, which was nice. Thank you, insurance.

Oh yeah, there you go. True, true. It was— it felt like it was long-winded though. I know you guys were like waiting forever. Yeah, that would be so frustrating.

You know, had to change the lino, and of course insurance company will do, yay, so much lino, but it's like I kind of want a patchwork quilt. Do the lot. Yeah,

absolutely. Absolutely. What do you think, like, you're talking to heaps of studio owners, like, what's the biggest thing that's made your studio so successful? Because you've got it, you've got kids that have gone overseas and traveled and done all the things. Like, what is the one thing that you think studio owners need to take more accountability of?

Um, I think technique, and we're all going to say ballet, aren't we? Um, I think the technique standard Because if they are going overseas, they need all that. They need to be able to walk into a class confidently that can do those basic steps well and then go into whatever else they need. But giving them the opportunities to see and do other things if you can. It's hard for us because we're so far away. But then if you can, we try and take them on tours, give them those opportunities as well. But I'm just going to say, stay in your own lane. Believe in what you believe and what you have got to offer will come through then.

Yeah, you do you, boo. We did that yesterday. We talked about exactly that, just staying in their own lane. I think it's so easy to go, oh, that studio's doing that, I need to do that, that studio's doing that.

Distracted by shiny things, right?

Literally, literally. And it's hard, especially when parents say they want something and then you think maybe I should do it. But you've kind of just stuck to your guns the whole way through, haven't you?

Absolutely. I mean, hey, look, I've failed in things too. I've tried something on Okay, well, we're not doing that again.

But that's how you

learn, right?

And now your daughters are very involved in the studio.

They are. It's amazing. Yeah, I've got both my daughters with me, and one has 2 little people, which is wonderful. And if I want the ballet teacher to be there, some days I do have to babysit. What a shame. So yeah, and my other daughter, she's very involved. Not married or with children yet. I love handing the social media over to her. Yeah. So yeah, and very involved in what we can all take. And we're lucky, we all grew up very versatile. So tap teacher's out, one steps in. Ballet teacher's out, one steps in. That is so amazing. That's a real key thing in life, I think, if all students can be versatile, because they never know when they might switch the switch and become a teacher.

Yeah, true. Very true. Now you are One of the biggest rock stars in SGC, and you're probably the highest level in there with how many students you have. But you're on every call, you're at every event, you are the one, you know, and I really wanted to talk about this today because I think, and we do, we were just talking about it before the podcast, you never stop learning. Like, I've learned so much from everyone at this retreat. You're always the one writing notes, you know, on the Zoom.

Yeah.

And I think that's why you've had the success that you've had.

Yeah, I mean, learning is amazing. That's what we do as teachers, we continually learn. I always say the old saying, you know, if you think you've learnt it all, it's time to hang up the ballet shoes. Yeah, 100%. But yeah, learning from other people is amazing, and we are so giving. And I think that's one thing that makes this group of people so amazing, that we do share and we're happy to share. And we're happy— I'm happy to learn from that studio that's been open for a year because I'm like, wow, why didn't I think of that? Yes, exactly. Because it was so simple, but I've been doing it this way. Yes, yes. So there's— yeah, it's great. And, and I also love sharing if they want to ask the questions, and I'm— I want to see them succeed. How great to give them a little bit of my knowledge, whether they take it or not, but it's still something they can go, oh well, Katrina said this, but Bec said that, and hey, we could do a little bit of both, or, you know.

Yeah. Yep.

Yep. So much.

Absolutely. Yeah. So what's the future for Tapa?

The future is just do what we can do. Keep doing it. Do what we love and love what we do. That's our motto. And hopefully watch my girls get a bit more involved so I can step back and head to Fiji more often.

Absolutely. In business class. Yeah. In business class. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, well, thank you so much for coming on, Katrina. It has been incredible chatting to you, and I know everyone would have got so much out of that. You're amazing.

Thank you. Thanks, Katrina.

Appreciate it. Okay. Bye, guys. Bye. Hoia pula.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dance Principles United podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners. Go to the link in the show notes right now to get 2 weeks free in Dance Principles United Tribe. We would love to see you there.