Difficult Parent Conversations Suck – How to Handle Them Better

Hello, friends. I'm Amanda Barr.

And I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan. And welcome to Dance Principals United, the podcast.

Together, we are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio.

Join us as we talk everything from marketing systems, studio culture, motherhood, life, and everything in between.

This is the Dance Principles United podcast. Hey, friends, and welcome to the Dance Principles United podcast. Hello, lovely Beck. How you doing, my friend?

I am super awesome. Excited to be with you as always. Amanda, how are you going?

I'm good. I've had a great week. I had a weekend off which was so nice. It doesn't always happen. A bit of dance mum lifing, but generally a bit of a weekend off. And reset and ready to go. What about you? How's your week been?

Yeah, really good. I've had the incredible Shannon Atkins at my studio. I just love her so much. She's doing some troops and solos for us. Went out for dinner last night, had a few drinks with her. It was amazing.

Oh, so, so good. I'm so glad to hear that. So today we're talking a little bit about parents, right? Because parents are the hardest bit of running the studio. Do you feel like that?

I do. And it's something that Shannon and I were talking about last night is that every studio owner says they love the studio, but they hate the parents. Or the parents are always the hardest part. And they are like, yeah, they are definitely one of the hardest parts. Right, Amanda?

Absolutely. I think we hear that time and time again that running a studio is great except for the parents and, like, such a negative way to think about it. Like, to start with, I want to put that out there, but we wanted to give you some tips to today on the best way to deal with those difficult conversations and those parents and when they complain. Because it happens to all of us, right?

Absolutely. And I have to say, like, the complaining never stops. I've had the studio for 21 years now, and it's never, ever going to stop. It's just, you know how, like, we say that, like, it's how you react to something you can't ever change. The parents complaining. You can be the best studio owner on earth and do the most incredible things for every single child and you will still still have a parent complain. So you kind of have to change your reaction rather than changing the situation.

Absolutely. And you know what? They're customers and they're paying customers and they're allowed to have an opinion. They're allowed to have feedback and thoughts. I actually would be concerned if you didn't have parent feedback personally, because I think that's actually means that they're not engaged, which means they don't stay because I tell you what, things I don't give feedback on, things that I don't care about. If I have no care factor whatsoever, which also means I'm probably just going to up and leave without telling anyone anything. That's when I don't give feedback. I give feedback when I care about something, when I am invested in it, when it's, you know, part of, you know, our identity, our life. I don't know. Do you feel like that? I know you're the one who calls the manager over, but generally it's when you're invested in it, right? I've just dumped you in on the podcast.

Well, it's true, because I hate bad customer service, and I always do. Like, I always call a manager over and say I want to. You know, I just think if you're paying great money for something, you should complain about. But anyway, that's completely digressing.

But I.

It's true, though. Like, I think. I don't know. I feel like I was so bad at this When I first started my studio, Amanda, Like, I took everything to heart. I would cry all the time over parents complaining. I'd avoid confrontation with any parents who I heard through the grapevine that were complaining. I'd overthink. Overthink. Overthink was I was really bad for my mental health and really destructive, actually. Were you like that, or no? You were never abs.

No, I was absolutely like that. And I still couldn't be like that. What do you mean was like that? Of course.

I just don't imagine you crying over a parent.

Oh, no, absolutely. Like, maybe not actual literal tears, but the same feeling as crying. I don't cry. I don't actually shed literal tears, but that's like a whole another thing for my psychologist, I feel.

But unless you're watching a Disney movie, right?

Unless I'm watching a Disney movie, then I'll just, like, shed all the tears. Anyway, we're really, like, just discussing all of our psychologist issues right now on the podcast. We're all friends, right? Hopefully you're all friends. But yes, I 100 would overthink those. Stay up late at night thinking about that conversation, replaying it in my head, the different ways I could have said it or even if I hadn't. You know, here's what's even worse than that is I haven't actually had the conversation yet, and I'm like, Spending way too long thinking it over. What am I going to say to them? Oh my God, it's going to be. And always thinking, worst case. Right. And it becomes destructive behavior. And destructive, because obviously it's not great for your mental health, it's not great for your work, life balance or any of those things. But also destructive to your business. Because I've been there where I haven't done the things I need to do to grow my business because I'm so caught up on, oh my God, I'm so stressed about this parent. I've got to call them. I've got to do this. I don't know. You agree?

Yes, totally. And it just, it consumes you. It totally consumes you. It's all you can think about. You talk to everyone else about it except the parent. Have you noticed that, like, you'll talk to the staff member and then you'll.

Talk to your friend, your husband. Yeah, partner.

Like, it just. That's never ending as well. So that takes up so much time and yeah, it's definitely all consuming. And I think getting yourself out of that is key. And I guess the first thing to getting yourself out of that is dealing with it pretty much straight away. And I'm not talking about being reactive. I know picking up the phone and being angry with the parent is not the way to do that. I've done that before as well. But thinking about it for five to 10 minutes and then picking up the phone is, in my opinion, the best way to do it. And it's hard. Like, it's not easy. You don't want to deal with it. But I think that's the best way to go. That's what I try to do anyway.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, the biggest thing that you just said then was picking up the phone. That was the biggest thing that you just said to me. Because we know that these complaints, feedback, whatever it is, they generally are an email or a heard it through the grapevine kind of conversation. Right. Most people, they like to hide behind their keyboard. I don't know. Do you find that, do you get the emails at 10:00 clock at night and the, you know, the Facebook messages at 10 o' clock at night that people are hiding behind their keyboard and being keyboard warriors. But picking up the phone can really disarm the person and actually like hear their tone of voice because sometimes it's just misunderstood in an email.

Yes, absolutely. And I think also, you know, just think, I always try and think of the parent now when I see these Things. And I think they probably, if they are emailing you at 10 o' clock at night, they've probably had a really upset kid, he's possibly gone to sleep, sleep crying over some situation and then they're really peeved off about it. And so they're like, I'm gonna write this email now. So they're being quite reactive about it. But I do get that, like, you don't want your kid to be upset and crying.

Of course not. Absolutely. There's nothing worse than having your child upset, like, regardless of why. And it's so easy to find someone to blame sometimes. Right. But I do love the picking up the phone. So our tip number one is picking up, pick up the phone. Do not email back. Do not. Do not email back. Do not email back. Please pick up the phone. I think that is, like, I couldn't say that enough times because I think it really changes the conversation and being, like, fast about your reaction as well. Don't get me wrong, do not pick up the phone at 10 o' clock at night. But you shouldn't have been checking your emails at 10:00 clock@ night. But do pick it up at 9am do you want to talk about boundaries a little bit, Beck? Because I think that's a big part of it as well.

Yeah, definitely. So I think when I really made the choice to not be a crying heap on the floor every time this happened, I put some really clear boundaries in my head. So the main one, and it might sound a bit silly, but the main one is I don't call them parents anymore, I call them clients. And that for me, made a big difference because I wasn't as emotionally attached to the situation. Did you ever do that?

I think that is so, so clever. Like, absolutely, like. And if you're listening to this just, like, to me, that is just like a big, like, moment in that. Because calling them parents, like, gives this emotional connection. You know what's weird? If you talk to anyone outside the dance industry and you're like, oh, my parents were complaining, does everyone think that you're talking about your literal mum and dad? No. That's a really weird thing to say. Like, my parents are all complaining. Or, oh, the parents were, you know, whatever that is. People literally think you're talking about your mum and dad, which has a very different emotional connection and maybe that does affect her headspace.

Yeah. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking even the kids or students, like, if you talk about your kids, that's again, another. Whereas you Talk about your students. It's just a very different.

I love that. That's really smart. And I think it's just putting in those boundaries that you need to create that kind of line. Doesn't mean they're not important. Clients are important, but they're also clients. They're not your literal parents. They're not emotionally attached to you. They're clients. And I think that that's a really important distinction, and I think that's a great boundary. What other boundaries do you kind of put in place around that? Beck?

Look, I think this might not be completely on track, but I think saying if a student wants to leave, that I send them with love because I used to get so upset and I'd be like, I've done so much for them, you know, I can't believe they're leaving, blah, blah, blah. Whereas now that I'm a bit older, I'm like, okay, I'm not going to be everything for everyone. And there's going to be times when either I can't give them what they need or want or, you know, they feel that I don't want it from you. Yeah, they don't want it from me. And I think, you know, I've lost some really big students that I've done a lot for and probably haven't done it in the best way. But now I think it's a different head space with that. And I do think that makes talking to parents easier because clients.

Wait a second. Talking to clients.

Good. I like that you pulled me up on that. Talking to clients easier because it just makes it again, less emotional.

Yeah, I love that. And I think it's, you know, that sweetest peach analogy and all of that kind of thing is so important. I used to, I, I had a big moment where I changed my head space around that I give without expecting to receive.

Yes.

And that was really big for me because I, I felt like every time, you know, we had a client leave or a staff member do the wrong thing, I would naturally always go to. But don't they know what I did for them? Don't they know that, you know, I gave them that solo lesson the other day for free, that I rocked up to comps at 7am in the morning, that I, you know, that I, I, I, I. And when I changed my headspace and I made that decision, and I actually so clearly remember making this decision over a specific client. And I remember sitting at the cafe on a Saturday morning after I'd had the worst week after losing this client and I was just devastated by. I'm like, you know what? I could change and not give because that would, like, obviously, I gave this client that left. You know, it was the client that I gave everything to. Right. It was the one that I, you know, drove home from the comps and I, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, it doesn't matter how much I give. People are sometimes going to go, hey, you know what? I'm going to go to the studio down the road. I couldn't have possibly done more for this kid. You. If I try, I can see you smiling because you've been there too, right? And we all know. And I sat in the cafe on that Saturday morning after I'd had the worst week because this client had left, and I thought I could either change about not giving them anything because then I wouldn't feel like this, or. And that's not what I want to be. I don't want to be that person. I like, you know, giving to people. I like being generous with my time, with my energy, you know, all of those things. Or I can just start giving and without the expectation of receiving something back and change my mentality around. Okay, so I'm still going to drive, you know, the kid home. If you had to. Obviously, this was, you know, a long time ago when that was probably more appropriate or give the free solo lesson or, you know, spend the extra time on the phone with the mum, but I'm not gonna go. Why did that person leave? Because I gave so much because I don't want it. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Absolutely. And also, like, not giving so that they stay. Because when you're giving them free this and free that, and then so they don't leave. Yeah, yeah. That never works. I've done that so many times. I agree. If you're going to give them anything, you've got to go. I. I'm not expecting anything in return from this, including their loyalty.

Mm, absolutely. You just. You just put that so much more succinctly than I did. I love that, because that's exactly what I meant.

Yeah.

Yeah. You can't buy, like, loyalty.

Exactly.

It doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that. So I think putting those boundaries in place with yourself is really important to protect your mental health. Obviously, we can talk about things like not checking your email at night. Get your bloody email off your iPhone. Like, it's just annoying, all of those things. But you need to really just think about how you react to the situation and I think that's the biggest thing. So let's talk about actually picking up the phone and how that conversation goes right back.

Yeah, well, I thought I'd tell everyone a little story that happened through the school holidays. We just had school holidays in New South Wales and one of our six and under parents emailed and said she's very disappointed. She used the word disappointed also. I take this class, so just want to put that out there.

Yep. You're the teacher. Yep.

Six and under jazz. Yes. I love teaching six and under jazz, guys. Believe it or not, I actually do. So anyway, she's very disappointed that her daughter, you know, is in a certain spot in the routine that it's not changed around enough, that she's been working on her mountain, wasn't put in the mount section, know, yada yada. And so. Oh, she also was a sporting person. She's never done dance before. And she said, why can't the kids all get a turn like they do in sport? And I, I thought that was interesting. And why can't they change positions like they do in sport? And I was like, that's yeah, totally fair. So the conversation with her actually went really well because I talked about.

So wait a second, you got the email and did you call her or did you email her back?

Called her the next day?

Absolutely.

Call her that evening, picked up the phone, chatted to her, said, we're not like sport. We actually. Those blocking places are really important, especially for six year olds. If they have to change positions, they get extraordinarily confused. So that's the thing. When they're doing their mount, both knees need to be straight and it needs to be near the child's head. She didn't know that. She thought it was fine for the kid to have one leg bent and the leg down a bit. But then the other thing that I found out is, you know, that there were other situations happening in the class where kids were saying that that's not good, that she couldn't do that step. And then the daughter was coming home very upset. And so that was a whole other section that we didn't even know about that I can now help with. At the end of the day, what I ended up doing because this parent was very emotional about it. Like she, her kid was really hurting and she was really hurting and I didn't want that. So I've got a junior teacher taking her for some technique lessons after their class just to help her to. She, she was like, I don't know what to do with her at home. I don't know how to help her stretch. Can you help me with that? So this junior teacher is going to come in, help her with how to stretch and get the technique so the child can be upskilled. Great solution.

Awesome. And by talking to her, you actually found got to the root of the problem. The root of the problem wasn't really that you hadn't put her in the front. That wasn't actually the problem. The problem was actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, from what you just said, the root of the problem was that she didn't know how to get her daughter better and help her daughter because her daughter wanted to be able to do mounts, for example, better. That was one problem. And the other problem was is that perhaps there was a little bit of like teasing going on in the class or her daughter feeling that way in the class. Is that right?

Correct. Exactly. And here's the thing.

I know what she wrote. Sorry.

Exactly. So old Beck would have read that email written back, a cranky email going, you know that's not the case and you don't understand and blah blah, blah. And then now back picks up the phone, talks them, understands that the child, that the parent is obviously cranky and angry about situation and then explains why we do things way we do and then find a solution. It's just, it's very different way of looking at it.

Absolutely. And I think the hardest part of that is calling. And I presume this is what you did with this mum is letting them speak, let them say their peace. And I know sometimes that's hard to hear, but if you just called and gone, hi, I'm calling to talk about this email. You don't understand, you blah blah, blah, blah blah. And it was all you talking about, then you wouldn't have actually got to the root cause of the problem. Which is no different to emailing. Right. It's just talking at them rather than letting them talk.

Yes.

And I think that's the very big difference.

It is. And as a team at pause when parents complain, I always say to them, and I know I say this all the time on the podcast, but it's so important to, to listen to parents and to go, why are they thinking this? Why are they feeling this way? What has happened to create this? Rather than going they're wrong, we're right, because yes, it's, it's not the case. They're complaining for a reason and we need to self reflect always and go, okay, what have we done wrong? As a team or as a teacher or as a business or whatever it might be, and then try and find a solution and chat to them about it.

Yeah, I love that. And obviously in this case, like, you know, it wasn't that you've positioned her wrong. That wasn't the issue, which is what she was kind. But seeing how you could help her was where you could go with this. So I'd love to know how you start the conversation around that. For me, when I'm coaching people, I always suggest the conversation goes, hey, Mrs. Smith, thank you so much for your email last night. Hey, I just wanted to call in and can you tell me a little bit how Susie's feeling?

Yep, exactly.

Let them talk. Is that what you do?

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for your feedback. Is the wording we use, but yes, exactly like that. And exactly what you said. Like, how are they feeling? I always also, like, say, how can we support you more? Is a great thing to say to people. Like, you know, because it's like they're angry about something. Okay, how can we support Susie more with that?

That's a great one.

What can we do as a team to help support her?

Yeah. What would make her feel more comfortable? What would she like? You know, something like that I really like. And if you're listening to this going, I literally don't know how to have this conversation, which I think there probably are people back that I don't know how to have this conversation. It's. I actually get them to restate the problem rather than going in with like, oh, I read in the email that you're not happy with her positions because that's putting the idea in their head. I think it's very important for them to restate the issue because sometimes they will say extra things and then ask questions. I presume this is how you got to this thing as well. You went, oh, so tell me a little bit about little Susie, is that right? And then ask more questions about it.

Yep, yep, absolutely. And let the parent. Yeah, it took a while for us to get to the crux of it, to be honest. But yes, definitely. Just me saying, how's she feeling? What's happening, you know, and how did.

That make her feel? Being a bit of a psychologist now yourself and.

Well, yeah.

Oh, that's a shame. Yeah, absolutely. Because usually it's something going on with them. Right. Like, usually there's more to the story. And I always think that as well. I. I generally think that most parents don't just call and complain because there was obviously a Very. You know, we're talking about majority, but because there was one issue. They might be discussing one issue, but it's because something has put them offside. There's been a few things that have led up to the one issue. And, yeah, I think that's a big part of it. Right?

Yes. And I think we have to remember that parents avoid confrontation as well. So this. This wasn't the first time or the second time or the third time or the fourth time that there'd been probably this little girl coming home upset. This was probably the seventh, eighth, ninth time. And that's the thing. Like, the first time, the mum was probably like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And then, you know, it's that. So when they get to you, they're really quite angry because they do the same. They avoid the confrontation with it. Right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's so many great tips in there. Hey, before we finish up, Beck around this, you know, I would love to share that we also have a great AI tool. I would love to, like, give this to our podcast listeners if you're keen to drop us a message and I'll send it to you. It. It's something we gave to our studio Growth Club members. When was it? When we were. When we're in New Street, Wasn't it retreat in, like, September last year?

Y.

It's called Delilah Difficult. And Delilah helps you plan difficult conversations and gives you a bit of a pep talk. I know a lot of our members use it all the time. I know your team use it too, Beck, and it's a great AI tool for that. So if you're interested. Interested in getting your hands on that, Comment Difficult in the. On our podcast link on Instagram. I'm sorry, I just struggled with that. I'm just getting my head around what we're actually doing. But if you comment the word difficult, I don't want to do Delilah because I just thought about that and I thought that's way too hard to spell. So difficult. And we'll send you the link to that little AI bot.

Love it. That's such an amazing tool, actually. It really helps everyone. So, yeah, thanks, Amanda. You're awesome.

Absolutely. You're awesome, Beck. It has been so lovely to have you guys. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. We can't wait to be back in your ears next week.

Thanks, friends. Bye.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dance Principles United podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners. Go to the link in the Show Notes right now to get two weeks free in Dance Principles United Tribe. We would love to see you there.