Money Leaks in Your End‑of‑Year Dance Concert That Studio Owners Never Notice

Hello, friends. I'm Amanda Barr.

And I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan. And welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast.

Together, we are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio.

Join us as we talk everything from marketing systems, studio culture, motherhood, life, and everything in between.

This is the Dance Principles United podcast.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Dance Principles United podc. We are here in the studio. I've got my new Dance Principles United shirt.

I should have worn my jumper.

We could have twinned.

We could have.

We could have twinned. But I'm here with Bec. We are excited, as always, to jump into another podcast episode. But before we do, like, what's been happening, Bec?

What's been happening? Just so busy with life, Nath. Bebe's just doing so much stuff now, which is amazing, but I feel like just managing her is a whole job in itself and then just.

And a poorly paying job at that.

Yes, exactly, exactly. But she's doing lots of cool things, so I'm very proud of her. But it's a lot managing her and all the other kids and, you know, all of the things.

Oh, and, and I think that's sort of something we talk about as well. Like, obviously you're talking about your child that's heavily invested in the dance world, but like, you know, Amanda and I last night had to go and pick up Sally at 9 o' clock and it's that 20 minute drive to the studio and we're both like, you picking up bro.

You.

Like, it's a lot on parent. Like, and that was after you're trying to get the other kids to the other. Like, I think it's sometimes, you know, we always talk about making sure that we are having empathy and understanding the. Everything that families have going on. And that when we do lots of things in our studios, are we always thinking, like, is this in the best interest of our families? Because there's so much going on.

Right. It. Life is crazy. And I definitely didn't realize that before I had bb. Before I had bb, I just thought that everyone was obsessed with dance like I am and that they should just be there and they should do that and how dare they be late. And then as soon as I had bb, it was just like. Just kidding.

Yep.

I was even saying this yesterday to some of our SJC members. Nath. Like, I used to make people do the craziest hairstyles.

Yes.

Until I had bb. And she hated getting her hair done. Like, she hated even having her hair brushed, let alone getting her hair done just like now. Right. A little bit different now, but like, you know what I mean? And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm making these parents get up at 5am and do crazy hairstyles for this comp with these little people.

Yep.

You just. Yeah. You don't realize that until.

Exactly. And like I said, we've. We've both had sick kids at home this week as well. There's been like, it's, It's. It's been a week. It's been a week. But we are excited to be here. That's not what we're talking about. It's not. It's not the poor Beck and Nathan story because, like, woe is us. Woe is us.

For us.

For us, for us. But we are here to talk about, as you know, I like to get here and nerd out and talk about numbers and money, but it's because I'm passionate about dance studio owners making the money they deserve and being able to make the profit that they deserve. And a big event that should be profitable for studios that sometimes we know isn't the case.

Always.

Is our end of year concept being profitable. And I think sometimes, you know, it's something that we always talk about with anybody that we work with is that our revenue tap turns off for six weeks after concerts. Obviously, no classes. Yes. Sometimes we run workshops and things like that. But for at least four weeks, at the very, very least, and quite often six to eight, we turn that revenue tap off. So we've got to make sure that our concert is a profitable event so that we're putting some. At least putting some cash in the coffers to cover rent and all those boring things. But also, you've worked really hard during the year. You've taken a lot of risk by putting on this concert, and you deserve to put a bit of money in. In your pocket as well.

The amount of work we put into concert, Nath, is just insanity. Like, it's crazy.

Yeah.

And I. I used to not make or barely would make any money off my concert.

Yeah.

And it was this epic event, like ridiculously epic, where we had a whole story that went through it and did all the things and put time and effort into it and barely any money made off it, if any.

Yep.

It's crazy when I look back on that now.

Absolutely. And that's sort of what we wanted to touch on today because it's like, as always, we sit around and jam about these things over zoom and then Sometimes over lunch when we get together in person like this. But talking about making sure that when we're trying to make our concerts profitable, that we're spending our time and energy on the right things and not the wrong things. Because that's something we see all too often, right?

Absolutely. So write things as in, well, controversial. I'm going to be, but I used to run so many rehearsals for concert, it was insane. So we used to do, I think three or four rehearsals at the theater. I'm not even joking to you. Plus I used to do rehearsals weekend after weekend after weekend at the studio. Because we had the whole story through the concert and everything had to work beautifully. There's so much for families for a starter, so much money spent on rehearsals. Because you're not just paying for the theater, you're paying for your staff on the day. You're paying for, you know, the techies. You're paying for insanity.

Yeah.

And I can't believe I used to spend that much money on that stuff.

Exactly. Because as with anything, when we're talking about profits, there's two main areas we look at, right? We look at the revenue, the money coming in, and we look at the expenses, the money going out. And like you just talked about, if you are paying for rehearsal days or multiple rehearsal days, that can literally be five grand, ten grand plus out of your pocket. And I know there's gonna be people sitting there listening to this thinking, no way, no way, no way, no way. I'm exactly a little nervous twitch going on. Like, there is no way I could ever do a concert without it. Like, I understand that train of thought, without a doubt. But the thing I always challenge people to think about is, okay, so like, what value is it adding? And like always thinking, like, okay, is it taking? Because we're talking about, like, whether you do, you know, for us, it used to be 20 weeks worth of end of year concert routine prep in class. And so when we got to the first year that we didn't do a rehearsal post Covid, we sat down with the staff and talked about, okay, so like you've had 20 weeks of class time to work on that, which is what, 15 plus hours of class time when you come to the rehearsal day. The reality is, because we had such a big studio, you get four to five minutes on stage with these kids. Is that four minutes on stage adding any value or what level of value is it adding from those 15 hours of class time that you've had with them? Is it going to take the routine maybe from a 9 to a 9.1 out of 10 maybe. But is that then worth you as a studio owner having five or ten thousand dollars out of your pocket?

And, and that's. That's the clincher. And that's, that's the thing that I think I had to really rethink. And I was. Because we'd already always done the story through it and done the epic things. Right? And I'm talking epic, Nath. Like we would fly Peter Pan in and you know, like it was.

Yeah.

Next level.

Okay. It was, it was huge. So when Covid hit, I had the choice to change that up or not. And it really was money based. But also, okay, Peter Pan had a great concert experience. Let's. Let's be real.

But to fly in on wires.

Right. But it's such a small group of those kids that had the main parts in the concert, yet everybody like that little six and under still had to come to every single rehearsal, had to go through like it wasn't really what. What was best for everyone. It was actually just what was best for that small group of kids who were committed. Which is silly as well.

Yes.

And possibly your ego as well.

100% for my ego. A hundred percent for my ego. So, yeah, I think you just have to start thinking about your worth and making sure that you can make money for yourself and your family. And you've got to change your way of thinking on that. Because my worth always used to be ego driven. But also, you know, I thought that everything was so important for me to do for the kids. And it is. I do love the kids, but I also have to love my own family and my own kids.

Yes.

You can't sacrifice one for the other.

No. And I think sometimes people mishear the message that we try to say in these things. We're in no way saying that you should be reducing the quality of your concert because it's a super important marketing tool. You always talk about how important it is for re enrolments for next year and for you wanting to have a quality product. And like, I know that pause concerts are always epic and uber high quality. And you're never talking about dropping the standard of that.

No.

But you're making sure that you, like I said, that you are doing it more intelligently, that you are focusing on your staff all the way through the year. Because that end of year concert routine is about all of that class time. And if they need that five minutes to make the routine better, well, then that's probably something you should have been Looking at throughout the year. So giving. Making sure that you're focusing on your staff and supporting them through that, to make sure that that end of year routine is going to be the best product it can be.

It's funny because you and I. This is a little bit off topic, but anyway, you and I have the complete opposite now, where we're watching dance concerts.

It's so weird.

It's so weird, isn't it? And mine's not because I've sold my studio, obviously, but mine's because my nephew and our steps, well, my stepson Josh, dances at different dance studios. They live in different areas. Pause. And it's so weird going and watching another person's concert.

Yep.

And seeing it from that parent perspective. And I. I said to our studio owners this week, go and watch other people's concerts if you can, because it really will make you self reflect. But you were saying, like, you know, you're lucky because you've got the three girls, so you do get to see more routines. But if you want one child who's doing one or two routines in the concert and it's actually so boring. It is. And I love dance, Nath. I am addicted to dance. I watch dance on Instagram 24 7. I would watch dance more than anything else. I'm obsessed with it. But I wanted to poke my eyes out watching the concert. And they weren't bad concerts. They were a really great level of concert. But I just. And you know, imagine, like.

Yeah, I think that's just a super important thing to think about. Like I said, we always look at it through our eyes and the context that we bring to it. But like you said, and it's a controversial take, but the reality is that a large percentage of your audience actually don't, I don't think, don't enjoy watching the concert. They obviously enjoy watching their child and that's what really lights them up and that's what keeps them coming back. But as an overall production, it's something that. That maybe that really doesn't light them up. Right.

Yeah. The Tims of the world.

Yes.

Can think of nothing worse than watching a dance concert. You know, it's torture to him. Absolute torture.

And this was something else that, yeah, we talked about, obviously, like thinking about things like rehearsal days, but like other parts of the expense side of your concert that you can maybe think about to help, you know, more money get into your pocket to help your profitability come up. But one thing that I'm always super passionate about diving into with studio owners Is getting out a spreadsheet, as you know, as you know that I love to do. But looking at what is the biggest lever we can pull in getting more money in for our concerts. And this is something that like, I think we're going to dive into a few like silly things that you've done in the past maybe that, you know, we try to do because we think, oh, we might be able to bring in a couple of hundred dollars here. But the reality is we need to focus on selling tickets.

Yes.

Because that is the biggest variable to us bringing more money in and making more profit. So what I always like to do, and you might not nerd out on numbers as much as me. I know. But if you don't like start this year or if you've done like you might have done a mid year concert through tribooking or something like, go back and look at any other data you've got from tickets that you've sold and have a little look. Like if you've got 200 students and you sold 500 tickets to your mid year concert, well, that means every dancer bought about two and a half people to that show. Right. The biggest thing that you can do to drive up your revenue and your profit is to get that 2.5 tickets per dancer up to like 2.7. You're never going to get it to 3.5 and things like that. But what are the things that you can do just to move that needle a little bit? Because we were doing this with one of our members on our call yesterday and just like that, you know, from a 2.5 to a 2.7, for example, those sorts of jumps, depending on the size and scale of your studio can be an extra $5,000 cash in your pocket. And so what are the things that we can focus on to make sure that we get that little, that increase in tickets? And I think what you were talking about, like making sure that it's a great experience for the parents. As great an experience as possible for the parents and families sitting in the audience, right?

Oh, absolutely. I think it's so important for us to make that a fun time so that then the next year they'll bring more people.

Yes.

I also think marketing it really well in your studio. Giving invitations out, getting the kids to send invitations out, you know, making a big deal of it. I was talking about this yesterday with some clients as well. Like the more hype you put around it, the more people will be invested into it. You know, if there's posters up, if the teachers are Talking about it to the kids all the time saying how amazing it's going to be like all of that stuff but yes if they then go and it's a horrible experience and they're sitting through a six hour show which I've experienced you know myself you definitely will not want to go back. No ever.

And like and the grand like even sometimes like the grandparents might second guess oh the dance concert. Oh no I think I've definitely got something on that weekend. Like yeah you've got to make sure that like I said you've got to do what you you've got to do. Yeah Sometimes like yeah you put on two acts so that everybody's getting their their time to shine on stage but what can you do to make sure that that concert is the best experience it can be for Susie Susie one class or Suzy two classes family and I think that's the lens that we need to often look at our our concerts through. Don't think about it for you know Karina Comp kid. I don't know why I'm making these names up sorry it's really bad but you know don't think about it through those Compkins lens because like I said like Nathan and Amanda sitting watching the DS concert last year we were like oh cool. Like we only had to wait two routines to see our kid again. We were engaged the whole time. We're like cool. Not a problem at all. But what does it look like and when you're making lots of decisions about what your concert looks like what does it look like for those one or two class a week parents.

I also think now we have such a shorter span of concentration. We know that but like I don't know about you Nathan even if a movie goes for too long.

Yeah.

You're starting to get bored in a movie.

Yes.

This isn't an engaging movie with you know multimillion dollar budget. This is kids coming on and dancing like I just think we need to be realistic about that.

Yes.

And thinking about people's attention but yet going if your concert goes for more than three hours you need to rethink it.

Yeah 100 and that's within. That's including interval. 100% yeah and I think you know things like having like we were lucky like the the venue that we always have our concert at really nice foyer area because you've got to get and think about like if it's a three hour show you're asking parents to get there an hour 45 minutes early too. Right. So they're there for four hours. So, like, we were fortunate enough. There's quite a nice bar area there. So parents were happy to drop off and sit and mingle and have a drink and things like that. So, you know, we didn't have to do too much on the activation side of things. But of course, we'd have the photo walls, the balloon arches, and things like that, because I think it's really important to make it that whole experience for people. What I was talking about with some people yesterday was if you go to any major sporting event now, if you go to an NRL or an AFL game, if you used to go to those 25 years ago, you'd rock up through some dingy suburban oval and, like, you know, dodge the beer cans as you got to the hill and sat there and sometimes listened to people get abused on the field and, you know, survival of the fittest and watch the game. Now it's all about the game day experience. It's about the activations, it's about this, that, and the other. Obviously, we don't have the budget of an NRL or AFL team. That's okay. But every sport that you go and watch now is about making that overall experience better. So, like, what are the things that we can do within our budgets to try and do that? Because like you said, if I always say it's got to pass the dad test, if your concert can pass the dad test. And guys, dads aren't that complicated. Like, I'm really, really gonna, really gonna share the. Share the dirt here. We're not that complicated beings. If you say to me, if somebody says to me, oh, how was it? I'm not gonna go into a detailed blow by blow of what the concert was actually like and the technique and the, oh, yeah, it was all right, that can be enough. Yeah, but if I'm sitting there bored, I'm gonna. I'm gonna actually, like, have a bit of a whinge about it to, to the other dads and to, like, when. Like when Uncle Steve gets asked, asked me and, hey, like, I got invited to the concert. Like, should I come along to this? If my answer's like, oh, yes, not too bad. Uncle Steve's getting dragged along, that's okay. Like, and that's all about. Like we said, we're just looking at, like, how can we just sell those extra tickets? Because we're not going to sell it. Like, we're not going to be able to sell it externally to our studio guys. How can we get the people that are already in our orbit how can we get the aunties, the uncles, the grandparents and maximize those ticket sales?

I am talking of ticket sales. I had a client yesterday say to me or say to our group, oh, how much is everyone charging for tickets? I don't know about you, but that, that question really just perplexes me that people just want to go, oh, well, you've got your ticket for $35, but so I'll put mine at $35. And I just said to the group, like there are so many things that go into that. Like your ven $2,000 to hire mine might be 20,000. That's a very different ticket price. And like what things should they be considering, Nath, rather than just going what's Joe blogs down the road doing? You know, what other things should they be considering as far as that goes?

Yep. So you've got to sit down, you've got to get all of your costs for your concert. So obviously the big ones like the venue hire, making sure that within that venue hire that it's including the staffing within that. So your own staffing for the day. So like how much you're going to pay the poor stuff on the day, for example, any decoration, like all those things like the trophies, the medals, the. All of those things that you are going to be shelling out for the concert, you've got to make sure that you get that number in. We've got a great free resource for anybody. So if you're listening to this, we are about. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this or not, but here we go anyway, we're about to. Yeah, we're about to get our new website live. So we're going to put some links in the show notes here that there is a free resource there, the concept profit calculator and it's got like a training vid. I won't go into it too much on the podcast because as always we waffle on and running out of time back. But this, it's got a free like spreadsheet for you to calculate and it's got a full training vid on all of those things that you should be looking for. How to look at all your expenses for the concert, how to then balance that out against things like your concert performer fee which is going to bring your money in and then helps you play around and like you said, figure out, okay, like if I set my tickets at $35, how much money will I make? How much profit will I make? Oh shit, that's not enough. So Then you can, like, go in and like, oh, what if I charge $40? Oh, cool. That. That's a bit better. What about 42? Okay.

Yeah.

And making sure that when we put our ticket prices in, we're thinking they're also going to charge us a booking fee and things like that. So making sure that all of those things go. Go into it as well.

Yeah, I think being educated on that and knowing your numbers is such a game changer. And there's so many times that you go, holy crap, I am not making. I thought I was making lots of money because that money comes into your account and you think you are, but there were so many expenses there before it.

Yeah.

And I love what you're saying about just putting ticket sales up $3. Because, like, I have this memory at one of the concerts that I was at with, you know, this poor studio owner running around trying to sell programs. Right. For $4, whatever the program was for. And I remember them being like, you know, times are hard. Buy a program. And I'm thinking, why don't you just put your ticket sale up $4?

Yes.

That is just such a. Like, that is a crazy amount of work to put the program together, to get it printed, to do all of those things. And then you're running around trying to sell programs for $4. Just put your tickets up $4. And all of that work wouldn't have had to happen.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's where, like, going into, like. Like I said, I don't want to bore everybody with. With the maths and things like that, but that's where we're just talking, like, we've got. When we're selling hundreds, sometimes thousands of tickets for the bigger studios. It's the economies of scale. Like, you've only got to put ticket prices up by 1, 2, 3 dollars. And then if you can do that as well as getting that, like, tickets per dancer up from 2.2 to 2.4, like I said, you can make huge inroads. Like, you can make Thousands and, like, five to $10,000 just by doing those little things. And that's where, like, you said, like, doing things like trying to sell programs like we do. See, like, what are things that maybe you've done in the past or that you've seen?

Fruises sold, roses sold. I can't even think now sometimes, like.

Depending on the venue, like, if you're able to run the canteen and things like that, like, I think with any of those extra things, you're thinking, oh, that's going to be a good way to bring in money. Please make sure you zoom out and look at it from how much actual profit is that going to put in my pocket and how much work is it going to be?

It's also how much are you asking parents to consistently put their hand in their pocket? Yeah, because that, there's a lot of psychology that goes with that. You know, they get the costume invoice, then they get an invoice for the T shirt, then they get an invoice for the extra rehearsal that you're doing and then they need to buy this and you know, like that pisses people off so much. I would rather just have the ticket price and the concert fee and that includes everything. As a parent, like I would rather not have. You know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely. And like that's it. Like if you do something like the concert roses and things like that and you've got a great supplier and it's something that's really, really sort of ingrained in your studio and you make two and a half thousand dollars out of that for minimal work because you've got a good relationship with the supplier and it's something you both win from. Awesome. Keep doing it.

Absolutely.

But if you're doing something like that and you're ending up having to do a lot of the work, you're ending up having to do the running around, driving the day before concert to pick up a squillion roses and then you make 250 bucks out of it. They're the things that need to go.

Absolutely.

And like Beck said, like put your ticket prices up $2 and you would have made $1,000 instead.

And that's the thing. Sometimes I just think we just need to think smarter about that stuff.

Yeah, exactly. Always about working smarter, not harder. And definitely knowing our numbers around all things like this. But we so appreciate you taking the time to listen as always. We've got to like 20 something minutes without even breaking a sweat. Beck. And look, we only went off topic a couple of times. So I think we've done well. I think Manda will be proud of us sitting behind the screen there. But thank you so much for listening everybody. If you haven't already, make sure you check us out on YouTube so you can see my new Dance Principles United shirt and give us a like or follow on YouTube and all the podcast platforms. We would so, so appreciate it.

Absolutely. And reach out if you want that concert calculator.

Absolutely. It'll be in the show notes.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dance Principles United Podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners. Go to the link in the show Notes right now to get two weeks free in Dance Principals United Tribe. We would love to see you there.