One Skill Your Dancers Are Missing (That Could Change Everything For Studio Owners)

Hello friends, I'm Amanda Barr and I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan, and welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast.

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This is the Dance Principles United podcast.

Well, hello friends, I hope you You are amazing. It's Bec here from the Dance Principals United podcast. I am joined by two incredible, incredible women. We have Zoe and Christy from Act It Out. How are you guys going?

Hi Bec, we're good.

So excited to have you guys here. You are doing incredible things in our industry, um, creating this amazing acting program that can go into dance studios, and we'll chat about that a bit more later. But first of all, I wanted to talk about your insane careers. You were just telling me that you were at the same studio when you were kids but didn't actually know each other. Tell me about that.

Well, we were at King Kids together, and what, 12, 13, about 12 years old, I think, mid-'90s roughly. Yeah, yep, yeah. And I was sort of more of the dancer and, and singer and did a bit of acting because it was a performing arts, um, school. But Christie was actually there just doing drama. Yeah. And didn't even know each other. But when we've discovered that, we're like, oh my God, do you know this person, this person, this person? So we just knew all of these people.

That's so crazy. And you're 2 weeks apart.

Yeah, and you didn't know each other at the same time. We only met 4 and a half years ago now.

Yeah, really?

Yeah, we've got a lot of obviously mutual friends, but yeah, and I'd never crossed paths. Strangely enough, I remember Zoe from when she was in Cherry, which was her pop group in the late '90s. Wow. I was working on Home and Away at that time, and my boyfriend, his ex-girlfriend was one of her band members. So there's all of these like crazy connections. So I knew Cherry and I knew of Zoe, but I'd never met her.

Wow. So tell me a little bit about your background. We'll start with Zoe. Grew up dancing.

Grew up dancing.

Yep.

But I— well, Johnny Young Talent School, that was where I went. So we did dance, surfing, and acting.

Yeah.

And it was like young talent time was the thing, and you have these big picnics where you'd all go and you'd see the stars and you'd be like, I'm gonna be one of those stars. And then went through high school at Newtown Performing Arts. So did tune at drama, tune at dance there. Then basically went into work. I worked as a dancer, singer, actor in, I worked at Australia's Wonderland.

Oh, back in the day.

And then signed to Sony Music as a pop star.

Wow.

For a moment, kind of was like, well, that ended. Not very well, but it does tend to blow up. And then went into musical theater. So I worked in musical theater for about 5 years. Yeah, sort of back-to-back runs of shows, which was amazing.

What was your favorite show?

All different. I mean, Saturday Night Fever was my first, and I did 18 months of that. We covered the world, like Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, all of New Zealand, all of Australia. So much fun. And met my husband on that too. So that's pretty cool.

Yep.

Um, and then kind of went, you know what, it's— I just want— like, neither of us wanted to sort of do the musical theater thing anymore, living out of a suitcase and living in a bubble. Like, it is tricky. Um, and so we started our own theater company. So we also felt like we were boxed being musical theater performers, that we couldn't be seen by casting agents, by theater companies with auditions. So we were like, well, we'll just show you that we can act. And so we created our own theater company and we started winning awards and doing really well and getting a lot of exposure there. And then I've just worked a bit parts of guest roles as an actor, a few television shows, and now I just mostly do voiceover work other than acted out.

That is crazy. Yeah, what a crazy career.

Yeah, I'm very lucky. I've had an incredible career and still having a great career.

Yep, insane. And you didn't dance at all?

I was not— well, well, I did dance. I danced for one when I was about 5 years of age. And I remember we did our very end of year concert to a song called Oh I Do Like to Be Beside the Seaside.

Oh, I do.

And I was only short and I was in the front row. And we had to kind of jump out like this and then hips to the left, right, left, right, except I jumped out and then went hip to the right, left, right, left. And then just couldn't catch up for the rest of the dance. So ended up squishing my way to the back of the stage and I ran off in tears. And I ran to my mom and I said, I never wanna dance again.

And I didn't.

Because I'm a woman of my word. Um, it just wasn't for me. And even still to this day, when I watch dancers, I'm genuinely in awe. But also, the— I know, like, there's something about moving my body that freely that I just can't connect with. I'm just— it's just not who I am. Um, so I'm always really— I love watching dancers. I love being in that world, and I'm so in awe, and I, I walked past some of the dancers that I teach yesterday. I was just like, gosh, I wish I could dance.

God, I wish I could dance.

But no, I'm just an actor. That's it.

You've just had a small career.

Yeah, a little— just a little screen career. Um, shall I tell you about it?

Yes, please. We'd love to hear about it.

Uh, well, from, from the age of 4 or 5, I knew I wanted to act. Um, from my very first job that I did— my job— my very first job, the first role I ever played was in preschool. And, um, I said to my mom, this is what I want to do. My mom's an accountant. She was very much trying to steer me in a very different path of life. But by the time I was about 12 and I consistently kept hounding her, I ended up at a school called King Kids in the city taking drama classes. I grew up in the suburbs, but there was nowhere that offered drama. So I had to go into the city to a dance school to find the drama class that I wanted to be in. And I used to sit back in the laneway, you know, dressed in black and all, kind of emo and look at all the dancers that were wearing their tap shoes running up and down the stairs and just be like, those guys think they're so good, because they were, let's be honest. Um, but it was while I was at that school that I auditioned for a little show called Home and Away, and I was meant to be on that for 6 weeks and it turned into 4 and a half years.

Wow.

So I was 16 when I started that and I was 20, almost 21 when I finished. Um, so that kind of really kick-started my career. Actually, I had another job before that on a show called Police Rescue, but it was Home and Away that kick-started the career. Um, and I worked consistently in television for the next 10 years here in Australia, mainly all just network stuff and a couple of independent films. Um, in fact, the biggest independent film in the world is a movie called Star Wars, and I ended up working on that. So I did. Um, I, I filmed a lot more than ended up coming out in the actual movie, unfortunately, so it didn't take me to the places I was hoping for, but it did ultimately send me overseas to the States. So when I got to America, when I was in my late 20s at that stage, I felt like I'd been working so consistently, but I'd never really trained. So I actually spent 3 years in full training mode in the States. Yeah, right. Um, so I learned— I went to Groundlings, all the improv schools. I learned audition technique. I worked with some really fantastic tutors and finally started to connect myself back to what it was that I was doing. Um, I always felt a little bit of, uh, imposter syndrome up until that stage, so I had to try to work out whether or not that's— I could really do it, what I wanted to do. Um, that ultimately ended up bringing me home at one stage, and by then I was a mother, a single parent, and back kind of where I grew up. Um, and I didn't really know what to do because I couldn't keep auditioning for roles that would take me out of the state or out of the country or have me on set for 14 hours a day when I had a little baby.

Yeah.

So So I thought to myself, I will open a drama school in my area and at least talk to the kids about what I love the most. And also it was bringing up all those memories of my time in drama school when I found my tribe, when I finally felt this is my place in the world. So I've tried to bring that into my area now and I teach some magical children each week. Tried. I've tried.

Been running it for 8 years.

I have been running it for 8 years. Nailing it. I've got an advanced diploma in screenwriting, an advanced diploma in producing, producing as well. So I kind of was starting to think I would get into a little bit more behind the scenes. And then, um, I met Zoe and we ended up, um, creating this incredible program instead. So education space is kind of where we found ourselves.

How did you end up meeting?

Through Facebook.

Through Facebook, really?

Yeah. Well, it wasn't like, you know, you swiped left and swiped right, right?

Not Tinder.

No, it wasn't Tinder. But there were a group of us that were living in the Sutherland Shire and we were like, 'Oh my God, I just feel like we can't connect with, you know, normies.' And should we just like hang out? Who wants to go for lunch or dinner or something? And so the whole, like a few of us kind of knew each other, but didn't know, like I didn't know Christie, but Christie knew someone else who I also knew who were like mutual friends. And so we caught up one day and then we were just all like, 'Oh my God, this feels so nice to just connect with people who were the same and same ideas and same things to talk about and loves and passions. And, and as soon as I met Kristy, I was just like, this idea that I'd had, I'd had it for about 10 years to do this, to write a drama curriculum. And I was like, I just, I just feel like I don't have— I need someone. I need a comrade. I need a team to do it with, someone to do it with. Yeah. And as soon as I met Kristy, I was just like, hey, I've got this idea. I've been trying. I've been waiting for the right person. Do you think you could be it? And then we, we had a coffee, just the two of us, and she was like, I love this.

Yeah, it's amazing.

And so we've just—

it's from that, been literally that first day, like, we went and had a coffee in the park and we sat together for about 6 hours and just started to, like, brainstorm ideas and goals and dreams and longevity. And it just, it just clicked. Everything— we were on the same page in so many ways, so, and I That's incredible.

I love that so much.

Been working on it now for what, 4 and a half years?

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

And so we wanted to talk today about the industry because it is so getting so saturated with high-level dance, which is great and everything, but we all know that that very high-level dancer has such a small amount of contracts that they can actually opt into. You know, it's just so minute. And there's— and it's so overpopulated. There is a bazillion high-level dancers out there now. You know, I was saying to you guys, like, you can have a section of 50 10-year-olds and all 50 are phenomenal and incredible. So what we think these kids need, and what I know you guys think these kids need, is the other avenues so that their contracts are huge.

Well, that's been my career. Yeah, like, if I had just been a dancer, like, I've got friends who were just dancers, they're no longer in the industry.

Yep.

But I'm still— because I was a singer and an actor and a dancer, it's opened up so much more work for me.

Yeah.

And so I've still got a career and I'm still working in the industry. I work as a voiceover artist now, mainly. Like, that's, that's my, my bread, bread and butter. Like, it's— and I just think if the kids can— I mean, not only that though, like, drama is different to dance. Like, yes, all of the benefits that come with drama, like just about being good people, about listening, about empathy, teamwork, like even just even the little kids turn-taking, going, it's your turn now, and, and waiting in line. And, and like, there's— it comes with so many benefits that dance, it has a whole different set of benefits.

Yes.

And you know, my first love is dance. Like, my God, like, I just— thinking about it gives me goosebumps. It's amazing. But drama is different because they're connecting and they're working together and they're speaking and they're listening. And it's a communication that's different to dance, you know.

Absolutely. I also think it's more appealing to a normal kind of parent. And, you know, the thing with drama is they have to do speeches at school. They have to be brave to put their hand up at school. They need to be able to do a job interview. Like, there's so many basic things that drama can teach them. And I think educating parents around that could be key, right?

And just to use their voice. I mean, it was just last year that, that my daughter did HHI for the first time. And after every— and I actually knew the MC, which was hilarious. But after the, um, after every crew did their performance, their routine, he would interview them and they were all like that. You know, he would take, give them the mic and then my daughter's crew came out and my daughter stepped forward because she's she works with Christy at her school and she's done a few television things. And she was like, oh, and she took the microphone off him and she stood there and she was confident and comfortable. And, you know, it gives them these skills that, that a dancer who embodies emotion and life and passion can't use their voice.

Oh, 100%.

Devastating to think that they can't use their voice.

That is so normal though. Yes, it's crazy. Yeah, it's absolutely crazy.

I'm teaching diploma students at the moment in advanced diploma students and who, you know, what, 20 years old, that are coming to me for the first time for their very first drama classes as students that want career longevity as performers. And I'm trying to catch up on 15 years' worth of education that they should have already received by the time they get to me when it comes to performance, when it comes to connecting with character and emotions, understanding story, and all of the things that dancers still need to know. As well as teaching them then how to present themselves when they do go into an audition space, when they do have to try and sell themselves. And even to be as specific as dancers that wanna do Disney cruise ships and wanna go and do Disney cruise ship auditions, they need to audition as Disney princesses. They need to know how to speak like a Disney princess. So I'm even giving specific lessons to these dancers that they're feeling confident to go into that space. And it feels like sometimes, you know, I'm pedaling this bike so fast to try to get all of this content in that I never feel like I'm gonna have enough time to teach them in the time that I have them. Whereas if these dancers had have been doing something like Act It Out since they were little at their dance studios, they would get to me ready to go. They'd be steps ahead of their peers. They'd be ready to go out and do those auditions. And also just as a side project, which is what I keep trying to also instill in my students is we all wanna make money, let's be honest, Do you know a really great way to make money as a performer is do commercials. So get into the casting director, you know, casting websites, put yourself out, audition. There are so many auditions that use dancers because they know how to connect with their body and they know how to tell stories physically in a very short amount of time. So acting doesn't have to be that we're creating the next Cate Blanchett who's going to win an Academy Award. It's just giving you those extra benefits, those extra skills that are gonna set you apart from your peers and put you in that upper echelon of performers, basically.

I love that. I think as a studio owner, the hard part is finding an acting teacher because it's like, they're either, one, I wouldn't know where to find them. Two, like, I don't know what is a good qualification and what is not a good qualification. I have no idea. And you know, it's just, that would be the trickiest part for me is trying to find a drama teacher to come in.

Yeah.

Well, that's what we were kind of going, well, how can we implement this? How can we solve that problem? Because that is problematic.

It is so hard.

Yeah. But what we've created in, in the app is a really comprehensive program. So it's literally got step-by-step instructions, and it's not hard. There's a video that, that, you know, teachers can watch, and any teacher can teach it.

Yeah, right.

It's literally upskilling teachers. So it's kind of making dance teachers drama teachers.

I love that.

And so anyone can do If you've got the confidence and you already teach kids and you already know them, then it's just like, oh, here, this exercise goes like this. And then we've got teachers' notes, we've got coaching notes, we've got questions to ask the kids so they're actually critically thinking. And, you know, it is, but it's also not just games. It's not simple games. It's, it's, it's a progressive program and they're learning really good skills.

Yeah.

The teachers are learning skills and the kids are learning skills.

We're teaching the teachers how to teach, to teach, if you will, as well as teaching the kids.

Yeah, that's incredible. And so do they do different things each term, or like, how do you plan it out in their year?

So term 1, we generally focus on foundations and fundamentals and icebreakers and team building, all of that stuff.

It's—

it is a different space when you bring kids into a drama room. We do ask that, you know, you allow yourself to be vulnerable, and it is an intimate space, so it's necessary to spend some time making sure that everybody's feeling very secure and very supported and very comfortable in that space. And that's what drama games work for. Yeah, but we eventually then let go of that and we start to skill build. So we're teaching kids how to develop character, how to use their voice, how to use their bodies for movement, how to get in touch with their emotions and portray them truthfully. How to find the confidence to be able to step in and share their ideas. By term 2, we're really amping that up with character development and connection with emotions. They start to work on some scripts with each other in term 2. They start to learn script analysis, character breakdown. By term 3, they're doing more improvisation. So that's when we're kind of like pushing the scripts aside and we're asking them to start to bring their own ideas and their own creativity to find their voices once again, to go with their confidence. And then by term 4, we kind of bring all of it together into a more performance element where we teach audition technique, we teach performance technique stage and screen. We have scripts that studios can use if they'd like to implement them in the end of year concerts that they do, whether they film them or they work with them live. We've got monologues, we've got two-handers. So yeah, the idea is that we've been able— yeah, we've been able to— I mean, I've been doing this for 9 years and I've really based this on what I have I've learned works best for my kids, basically. So it's a blueprint from, for what I've been doing for the last 9 years. And we've put it all into a very concise, very clear, easy to teach package. And we're just kind of like going, there you go, do with it now what you will.

I love it.

Basically.

I love it. And I feel like in today's society, there's all of the kids are so used to just being on their phone and talking on their phone. They don't even talk to each other very much anymore. Like you go, Literally, Bibi will go out for dinner with her friends and they're all on their phone. It's crazy.

Oh, my husband teaches at Actors Centre Australia. He's one of the head teachers there, and that's one of the leading bachelor programs in Australia.

Yeah.

And he says now he has to teach the students at the very beginning when they first come in, the first years, how to make eye contact.

We have nobody.

It's insane.

We literally have an exercise where it's just like staring into each other's eyes.

Yeah.

They're so awkward and they're so uncomfortable. I have to do it all the time in my classes as well. Firstly, I have a no phone policy, obviously. So I would highly recommend anyone in any teaching space to get rid of the phones. No recording or anything like that. But then to just sit there and stare into each other's eyes. It's so hard for them.

It's something that I'm constantly having to coach my teachers on and my assistant teachers is to go up to a parent and talk to them. Because they're so— they're actually scared to do it. It's— it's— they actually have fear behind it because they've never been made to do that or needed to do it. You know, it's so interesting.

All their communication is through letters on a screen.

And, and I was just talking to Elliot Carnival about this, but back in our day, there was no mobile phones. Yeah, there was no, um, you know, social media. Yeah, none of this existed. We had to actually talk to each other, and if you're going to meet someone somewhere, you had to actually meet them. Exactly.

And if they were— you'd wait and just hope that they would arrive. We were just having this conversation the other night. I was like, remember, Zoe, when we would get home from school and you'd hope that a friend would call after dinner? Yes. And you'd be allowed 30 minutes on the phone, on the landline, and if you were lucky, the cable might stretch to your bedroom so you could get a little bit of privacy. But Like, it's so different now. I'm watching it with my almost 13-year-old son and how he's navigating that and how it affects our relationship, how that then affects his relationship with his friends. And it's just a big cycle that we as a community need to try to get through together.

Struggling at the moment with a couple of friends, and, and I'm like, get together and see her and talk it out. Yeah, that's going to be the key because it's different. You can say all of these things on a text message, but if you see physically how someone responds, then you can understand— you have much more intelligence to understand how they're feeling, how you're feeling, and there's more of an understanding. That, that is just—

and that's what drama is all about, right? It's about listening to somebody else and responding with empathy in some way. So even though we're doing that as an art form, we bring that lesson into our everyday life. It's so important. And I think You know, the overarching thing for Zoe and I is, yeah, we want to create fantastic performers, obviously, and dancers that have strength and kids that can use their voices. But we genuinely believe in the power of drama to change lives and to build our children into being the best versions of themselves that they can be. And that's our goal, really, over everything else, is to, is to help our youth get through and navigate these times that we live in. You know, which, which other people might kind of be like, oh, it's just drama, you know, but it's, it's, it's so important.

Oh yeah, it's so much more than that. And I know you're starting it from preschool age, and even for that, I think it's educating these parents on that, right? Like, from a preschool age, they need to be able to, like I said, put their hand up and ask a question in class or take turns. Yeah, like, because preschoolers now have iPads. Yeah, it's just normal.

Yeah.

And I know when Bibi went to school. Now Bibi's turning 16 in a few weeks, right? She didn't have an iPad when she was little. And when she got to school, the kindergarten teacher said to me, she's very behind in computer studies because you haven't given her access to computers or iPads. So as a parent, I was like, crap, I really stuffed this up with this kid, literally. 'Cause she was a studio rat. She used to just run around the studio and she'd climb and she was just—

What a terrible way for for your daughter to like grow up and experience life.

But the thing is like, it's such a normal thing now that every preschooler that I know has an iPad. And so you're already starting that trend, which is why I love the idea of this preschool program. And also again, not every parent wants their kid to dance, but I think something like acting is not so intrusive, not so cray cray, and a great way for them to gain confidence for big school, right?

Kind of talk about our preschool program as being a developmental program. It's not really a— we're not teaching 3-year-olds how to act.

Yes.

No, of course.

Right. We're teaching them how to speak up, how to use their voices, how to take turns, how to put— literally put someone else's shoes on and walk around them to see what that feels like. It's, it's about getting them school ready so that when they're in big school, they're going to be the kids that raise their hands and suggest an idea. They're going to be the kids that are You know, bringing in their community on the playground to share their ideas, to play games with each other. Really different. It's a very different program to what our junior program looks like. We took a year and a half developing that. We went into preschools. We worked with the kids. We tried every single exercise that we do to make sure that it worked for that age group. We got their response from it. We got feedback. We spoke to educators, all of it. So it's a really unique, beautifully crafted program and very different to our junior, junior course that we have.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, it has been so amazing having you guys in today. My goodness, I am so—

we could just chat all day.

And I'm so pumped about this program. Now, I know that people are going to want to reach out to you and find out more about it, so how can they do that? They— you will be at Expo.

We'll be at it.

And you are doing a session at Expo, which is going to be incredible. So we're super pumped for that. So hopefully everyone's coming to expo, but if they can't make it to expo, how can they reach out to you guys and find out more about getting this into? Because I think this is an extra revenue stream that studios have not thought of before. And I think, you know, like I said, there's going to be so many kids from outside of dance that are going to come into your world and experience something totally different. So yeah, how can they get in touch with you guys?

So on our website, we have a contact form. They can either use that or through our socials. And if anyone contacts us with the word podcast.

Yep.

Then we will send them— if they sign up, we will send them their trial, just free trial classes so they can trial it in their studios.

I love that. That sounds incredible.

All right guys, so go to actitout.com.au or find them on Instagram.

Reach out to Zoe and Christy. I know they will be incredible to chat to and they will have an amazing program to put in your studio. Thank you so much for listening everyone, and we will We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.

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