Stephen Tannos: What REALLY Makes Dancers Stand Out

Hello friends, I'm Amanda Barr and I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan, and welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast.

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This is the Dance Principles United podcast.

Well, hello everyone and welcome to the Dance Dance Principles United podcast. It is Bec here, and I have a very incredible human sitting opposite me. Super excited for this talk, the amazing Stephen Tannous. I don't feel like you really need an intro because I feel like everyone on Earth knows.

All my credits, please, all of them.

Guys, we were literally at a cafe then, and the guy working at the cafe was like, aren't you that dance guy? Like, I feel like you are very famous.

Nah, it's all lies. I paid him before I went in there.

But you and I met a very long time ago when you weren't so famous.

Oh, I was a complete zero, nobody.

And I used to do your classes at Sydney Dance Company. God, back in the day.

What year was that?

I—

2000 and— are we talking 2000?

I must have been like 20-something. 23, 24 years ago, at least.

2010, 11, 12.

Before that.

2000-something.

Yeah, something crazy like that.

Unbelievable. At Sydney Dance Company.

It was before I had Bibi and she's turning 16 tomorrow.

Okay. It was quite a bit before that, actually.

That's crazy.

That's nuts.

So anyway, I was doing your classes. We hung out a bit, I think.

Well, yeah, we did.

And then I said to you, come teach at my studio.

Well, I remember. I remember.

Please tell me.

I remember vividly. There was a choreography showcase night at Sydney Dance Company. I don't know if you remember this.

No, I don't. I vaguely now that you're saying it.

Yeah, there was a random, like, we just had all our beginner students together and then like family and friends would come and like, I remember I was in the main studio and we'd put on like a little showcase of our choreography.

Yes, I do remember this.

With all our regular students. And I did this piece to like, um, Santa Gold Creator. Me, I'm a creator. This real quirky, like, and at the time I was like extra quirky because it was like, I was really trying to latch on to an identity. Right. And then you came up to me, you beelined for me at the end of the showcase as I was leaving. And I, you know, we'd obviously had a bit of interaction, but not probably a lot by that point.

Right.

And you were like, who are you? Where do you teach? What are you doing? How do I get you in my studio? You need to teach me now. Awesome. Sign here. Let's do it. And I was like, my head was like spinning. I was like, wait, what? Because I wasn't really teaching. I was teaching at Sydney Dance Company. That's it.

Well, I remember you saying to me, no, I don't teach at studios. I'm not going to do it.

I just had never done it, so I didn't even know what that looked like.

Right.

And you're like, cool, well, you start next week, here we go. Might not have been that soon, but you like basically cattle prodded me into it.

Sounds like me. Sounds like me. I think your biggest fear was though that I was going to make you be in a box.

Sure.

And I remember having to talk you around, I don't care what you do, I don't care what your piece looks like.

And I didn't believe that at that time actually because How can you believe someone who says that when they're a studio owner?

Absolutely. And I think we had to make that decision and go on that journey together because, um, there was a lot of pieces that didn't place at all.

Oh my God. Well, if this is any inkling as to like how much of free rein you gave me, my very first piece I've ever done for a dance studio was that bicycle race piece.

Yeah.

So basically I got the kids dressed up in like Victorian era bicycle knickerbocker height socks.

Yeah.

This kind of hat with suspenders.

Yeah.

To Queen's Bicycle Race.

Yes.

So basically like a bunch of like regal bicycle riders.

Yes.

And there was a section where they were like, we made a human bicycle and they're racing each other. And, and then it goes into Push It by Salt-N-Pepa. Do you remember that?

Yes.

Push it. We added all the bikes.

Oh my God.

And so I was like, well, if she's going to say anything, then I'm going to like really give her anything and see if she's game, basically.

Yeah.

And right away, like, I remember you watching it for the first time, right? And I was shitting my pants. Yeah, obviously, because I'd never done it before, and I don't even really know how to put a piece together, really. Like, you know, and I just— your encouragement was like, oh my God, oh, you are pretty freaking amazing.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it would have been hard for me to propose it.

There's no track record, you know, so like— and you were just like, go harder, go harder. More crazier. Go for that idea. You paid for me to get, um, remember Ian, the music producer?

Yep.

Paid for me to go to see him in Surry Hills to get music produced. I'd never done that before.

Right.

And so right away I knew you were going to give me the free rein to do whatever I want. And that's all I needed. I needed someone to give me that opportunity to go, this is you, be as you as possible. And here's an avenue to do that.

But I loved it too, because we really did start, you know, creating ideas together.

100%. You know, we got to the point where we would like, you know, everything was brainstormed together.

Yeah.

And I would come to you with these wild, like, we're going to ride little, like, remember those horses?

Yes.

You look back, I'm like, what was I doing? But anyway, whatever.

Remember the skirt that took—

ginormous skirt that was—

I think that was 40 hours to make that skirt.

I had nothing to do with making it. I just stood back.

That was insane.

Yeah, girl got lifted in the middle of this, like, formation. And she's like doing all this, like, you know, casting a spell, like, like the Wicked Witch of the West, like defying gravity.

Yes.

Basically with a broomstick in her hand without the broomstick.

Literally.

And then she's wearing this big bunched kind of object.

Yes.

And then it gets pulled out and it's a skirt that covers the entire stage.

And we were on big stage, like we were on the Opera House stage.

Yeah. And it covered the entire stage.

And it covered everything. And then there's people underneath with fishing lines.

Yes.

Quickly.

Because it had to be pulled apart in 4 parts for it to come apart. And like, it was a thing, but. You facilitated all that for me and you gave me an avenue to be myself. And I think that's all we need as young creatives is we need that person just to give us a chance and to kind of mentor us through it and to show us that, like, you have something special because how else are we going to know that? So for that, I'm very grateful. Oh, very grateful.

I'm grateful for you because I feel like that was such a good thing for those kids to learn. And I, I talk about this when I'm on stage all the time, but the instrument dance. And some of you might have seen this dance where, you know, Pete Evans was dressed as a— literally dressed as a double bass.

Big double bass. Yeah.

And that piece, I remember this moment very vividly. That piece did not win at all. And we put our heart and soul into these things. And I remember saying to Jade Barnes, I don't understand why this isn't winning. It is genius. Like, and she goes, Bec, no one's talking about blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, whatever's winning at the moment, everyone is going to talk about this instrument piece forevermore. And it's what everyone's talking about. And that was a really important important moment for me because I was like, it's actually not about the trophies, it's about what's long-lasting. People still talk to me about that.

I still get it to this day. It happened a few weeks ago. Yeah, uh, less than that, I think, actually.

It's crazy.

Remember that Instagram piece? Like, it never placed.

Not once.

I think we got a third once, but we're at something like—

I think maybe a highly commended.

I actually don't think it placed at all because it was polarizing as it was.

And that was hard for those kids to get through too, because I think the year before was Heartbeat. So they just won everything.

Won the finals of City of Sydney, which at the time was like the magnum opus of like, absolutely, Steadfords.

Yeah.

Up against Brent Street and all that, like, you know, studios. And here's a studio from Penrith.

Yeah.

Doing like— and we were like a hot favorite in there as well.

Oh yeah, we got in the finals every single year, I think, except the instrument year.

That didn't even get a look in.

But that's my favorite one.

Oh, and that's, and I think there's a very strong lesson in that. And it's absolutely, it's a lesson that's very hard to get through to students' heads these days, especially now, because everything is so quick. I want it now, now, now, now, now, now, now. But if you can take anything from that story, it's that the delayed gratification of having something stand the test of time usually only ever comes from moments that are quite polarizing in the initial moment of itself, you know. You look back on that and you have fond memories of it because it stood out, because it was different, because it took a chance.

Yes.

And that lasts so much longer than I did this thing that was cool at the time and it did well because it ticked all the boxes and made everyone happy. Like, no one else remembers what was in those competitions. You can't tell me. You can't tell me anyone remembers.

No, not at all. Not at all. And it's you being yourself that has really driven that. From the get-go, I think.

Well, yeah, yeah. I, I, and again, it comes from the encouragement you gave me to initially, you know, explore that. But I, I think all of my biggest lessons in life have come from this idea of that. And I said that in, in a podcast I just did before. We're allowed to talk about Bibi's podcast? Yeah, yeah, Bibi's podcast. Um, and I left with the advice of like, and the most, I didn't say it in this cliché way, but the most cliché way of saying it is be yourself because everyone else is taken.

Yes.

You know, it's a cliché thing to say, but it's so true. Like, all of my best and true defining moments have come from the times when I was so much myself that was so unapologetically in my own lane that nothing else mattered. And all I had was in front of me was my idea and a little bit of a seed of like where it's going to go and just the ability to like play and be as bold as possible.

Which is so hard because I look at the teens now, you know, and Bibi's turning 16 and—

Bibi's a bit of an anomaly though.

I know, but still, like, it's still hard to go against the grain.

It's so stressful. Especially now, and especially you're a business, you know, owner. You know this better than anyone, especially with a studio. You want to keep your kids happy, your parents happy. You want to go to a stead fits, you want a place. All of that's important. Obviously, you know that better than anyone. But I think that can teach our students a pretty bad lesson sometimes.

Absolutely. And, and something I always say to the kids is, who's Paris Cav being? Paris Cav. Who's Stephen Tannous being? Stephen Tannous.

Yep.

They're not trying to be like someone. That's the difference between a rock star and someone who's just following other people.

And somebody who's going to have a bit of success and it's, but it's going to be fleeting, you know? And that's what I would say too. Similar, very similar to what you just said. All of the people— and I say this to students all the time— I, I'll actually go around the room and I'll say, who are some people that inspire you, that you love? And they'll say the same names all the time, the names you just said.

Yep.

Paris Cavill, throw Molly Long in there, we'll throw Robbie Blue, who's another very iconic choreographer at the moment. Bob Fosse will get all these. Maybe not that one as much, but yeah. But the only true connecting line between all of those people is the fact that they are so they were so 100% themselves that the minute you even just see a silhouette of their movement, you could see a Paris Cavanagh silhouette with no facial expression, no costume, just in black. I don't know her shape. Let's just call it that for now. And in 2 seconds, if you're a dancer that has any info about dancing, you go, that's Paris Cavanagh. Or if you see someone stand there like, sorry, stand there like this, that's Bob Fosse.

Absolutely.

You know, like it's just. And those moments only can be that way because those people are so much themselves, you know. But in an economy where we want things to be now, and TikTok, Instagram, social media, where it's like— and I know because I fall into this trap too, as I'm sure you do as well— 100%, the best way to get— a much easier way to get, uh, guaranteed likes and clicks and engagement is to do things that you know work already. And that's the same with posting on social media, having a social media strategy Again, you know this better than I do. These are the viral songs that you put with your thing because it works. These are the viral templates and platform things that you use for this. This is the viral tool that you, you know, here's my viral cheesecake. Everything's viral, viral, viral. Like it's all been done before. Like, so to have uniqueness in this economy is very challenging, but the delayed gratification is, and the rewards, the long-term rewards for that are so much higher than these quick little dopamine hits you get.

It's interesting watching your journey with that though, because I've obviously, because we're friends, I follow you all the time from the get-go.

Likewise.

And you've tried so many different ways to get that viral thing happening. And you probably didn't even think that this latest choreography thing potentially wouldn't have gone viral or could have and just put it out there. And now you have gone viral with that.

Well, what, what do you think?

You've tried so many, you know, like I've seen you try so many different skits and acts and things.

Totally. Like you've gone down so many. Yeah.

Holes with it. I feel like that's me with business. I don't know if you remember back in the day, I opened so many businesses that it was a joke amongst the staff at Paula's and they'd be like, what's she doing today? Literally, what business is Bec opening? And it's finding that one thing that actually works, but it's how much work went into it beforehand.

The 10,000-hour thing.

Yeah.

People talk about all the time.

It's crazy that you've suddenly found—

Well, and even like, well, I'm sure we'll circle back around to the constructive comments kind of stuff. Maybe, maybe not. But if we're talking about like viral for choreography as well, like, my most viral by a country mile is Conga.

Yep.

50 million views across all, more if you accumulate all the different times I've posted it and like unbelievable. Half a billion. No, that's not half a billion. How good's my math? 50 million. Um, and that was like a song someone suggested to me. Like, and like the day before I was like, yeah, I'll give this a try. It's kind of fun. Thought nothing of it. Right. And then a friend was in the studio, Lauren Elton. She like helped me play with a couple ideas at the beginning of it. And then that was like the first couple of 8s. And then, and then I just didn't think about it. And then about a week later I was like, yeah, I'll just tack the end of this on for my full-time class today. Cause I have, I'd have nothing to teach. Put it up that night. Next day it's got 100,000.

Wow.

Next day it's got half a million. A week later it's got 2 million. And then we're like, And like I traveled around Europe last year and I have people like chanting Konga when I walk in the room.

Stop it.

Yeah, literally I went to Poland to teach and I wasn't going to teach that routine because it wasn't really suitable for them.

Yep.

And I walk in, there's 200 kids and they're chanting Konga. Like it's, you know what I mean? Like, and wow, I could not have predicted that.

Did you teach Konga?

Over there?

Yeah, you had to.

I had to. I couldn't be like, anyway, Konga, Konga.

We're not doing Konga.

Anyway, so we're doing something. Yeah. Sorry to disappoint you. Wow. People pleaser too.

So of course.

Of course. Of course.

But that's, there's something to be said for that. Like virality, sure, there's a formula for some things and like there's things that need to be adhered to with social media posting, you know, having a hook on your video, all this kind of stuff that's important. But there's something to be said for, I think true virality can only come from things that are authentic and real and things that are just, when the inspiration is not to be viral, it can't be your inspiration. Yep. It doesn't work.

Yep. I love that.

The amount of times I've had clients come up to me, we want to create a viral TikTok dance. Can you make it? And my answer is always no.

Yep.

That's not going to happen. If you've asked me for that, it's not going to happen.

Yep.

I promise you. But it will maybe happen, God forbid, I mean, God willing.

Yes.

When I'm like, my guard's down and I'm just like, I'm making this because it feels organic right now. And I'm like creating truly in the moment. I love that. You know, it's so true. And kids need to— kids, dancers, young dancers, they need to know that.

Absolutely. And it's our job as studio owners, I think, to teach that more.

But it's so hard to get through the noise.

So hard.

Because they think they know the answers too.

Oh, absolutely. But teenagers always have thought that.

Oh, that's true. I definitely think they do.

It's a very special teacher that can get through to teens. And I talk about this all the time, but you've got to make it about them. You can't make it about yourself.

100%. They don't care if I come in going, I did this, that, that doesn't work. When a teacher walks in and goes, when they have the energy of like, do you know what I've done before? Like, yeah, they don't give a shit.

No, they don't give a shit.

And they will let you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

In a heartbeat.

They're brutal. Absolutely.

I even get the feelings, you know, because I consider myself to be quite popular amongst that age demographic.

Very much so.

But I even get that feeling sometimes when I walk into a studio. I'm like, they don't want me to I don't want to be here.

Yeah.

And maybe that I do things in my head which are just not great, but, and if I, if I'm feeling that, I can only imagine what a ballet teacher is feeling like coming in or a tap teacher, these more hard sell kind of genres, you know?

Yeah.

But I always tell them, and every teacher will tell them this too, and this is what I just said to Bibi as well. They need to be paying attention to those classes far more than they need to be in mine. I'm here to give you a bit of soul food and to like, give you something that's fun and like, and I'm sure I can teach my ass off and like give you great lessons and inspire you and this, that, and the other, but you're going to get the real answers you need from all these other classes that aren't cool. And I'm not going because I'm a little bit sick and I can't do it. My friends don't like, like, what are we doing?

Yeah.

What are we doing?

Yeah.

That's where you've got to like really.

Absolutely.

But it's not sexy. It's not.

That's right.

But they learn until it's too late sometimes as well. They don't learn until it's too late sometimes as well. Yes. So the more people there are telling them that, the better. And the more people from my position and from your position as well.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. But we're not even here to talk about all that.

No, we kind of just threw off on that tangent.

Hey guys, Bec here. We went for a little bit too long on this podcast, so we are going to break it in two. Make sure that you come back next week.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dance Principals United podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners. Go to the link in the show notes right now to get 2 weeks free in Dance Principles United Tribe. We would love to see you there.