The Trick Trap: What Judges Really Think (And Why It Matters For Your Dancers) - Studio Owner Tips

Hello, friends.

I'm Amanda Barr. And I'm Rebecca Lou Brennan. And welcome to Dance Principles United, the podcast. Together, we are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio. Join us as we talk everything from marketing systems, studio culture, motherhood, life, and everything in between. This is the Dance Principles United Podcast. Well, hello, friends. It's Bec here from the Dance Principles United Podcast. I hope you are all amazing. I am joined today by the incredible Cara Dixon. I met her last year at Expo and she is coming again this year to Expo. She runs an incredible program called Relative Motion. You guys are going to love hearing from her. How are you, Cara?

I am so good. Thank you for having me on this show and also for dear inviting me to Expo. I love it so much. I've only been once, but it was such an incredible experience and I just cannot wait to be back.

Yeah, we can't wait to have you back. So I guess I want to ask you first a little bit about yourself, how you started in dance, all that sort of stuff, because you're an incredible, incredible teacher making waves in our industry. So tell me how it all started.

Thanks. Well, I mean, you know how any dancer's dream starts when you're little and you're just taking all the classes, right? And you're just becoming competitive. You're doing all the things and looking for your dream jobs, you know. So after years in the industry and years, like, performing, you know, having different traveling jobs, having different performing jobs, teaching jobs, and like, being everywhere from, like faculty at Broadway Dance center to studios to competitive arenas, to, like, governor School type places, I just noticed, like, a big kind of gap in our industry. And my sister and I are both professional dancers and teachers, and we were traveling just on the convention circuit and all the studios, and we just noticed that all dancers struggled to get past a certain point in technique. Like, we could hold their bodies in a certain place and they could get there, but if it was up to them to understand it and get there themselves, they struggled. And so that's when we started developing the idea of dancers seeing their technique versus just trying to figure it out on their own. If they could be immersed in it and experience it, they can really understand it and repeat it. And so that was the whole beginning after all that, of Relative Motion.

Wow, that's amazing. And so Relative Motion is a stretch and strength program, but you've got, like, these cool tights with it. Do you want to tell me about those?

Yeah, absolutely. So the biggest part of our program is that we Patented apparel that is based on the anatomy. So it's color blocking. It doesn't really look like, if you think about muscle pants or something that you would see, it's not like that as much as it's like a trendy color block. And each block is a specific muscle group or, you know, a joint. Things that they need to align, to stack, to understand how to engage. And so what we'll do with our program is we try to simplify really complex concepts for dancers, really complex, technical things, and have them understand, okay, if we need our inner thigh to do this. And that's the green panel. I need to be able to fire up the green panel. I need to be able to activate it isolated, away from all the other groups, triggering and firing up and gripping. And I need to be able to energetically move it somewhere in order to accomplish what a teacher is cueing. And so we've gotten it so that these basic concepts that dancers can understand when we break it down to color or break it down to energetic, like, hey, go in this direction. With that energy, dancers can now get to super high technique levels that they didn't even fully wrap their mind around before. So it's really. It's really inspiring to kind of watch dancers take it in and. And get those, ah, mom, I love that.

I love that. And I, you know, you and I have chatted a lot, but the pressure on us as studio owners now to have these kids at such a high level of technique, like, it's just getting. I mean, you're. You're in the U.S. canada. Where are you?

U.S. it's so.

I mean, the U.S. is even next level to us. I feel like it is so crazy what these kids are doing from a young age, and the. What's expected out of them, technically, it's just getting crazier and crazier I feel. Anyway.

Yeah, it's insane. And actually, it's funny because, you know, littles, they really have less inhibition. Like, they're. They really have more a go for it mindset. But also they don't have, like, the pain and stuff. Like, they don't have the boundaries that older dancers have because everything's not as solid, right? And so, like, their ligaments aren't fully developed. Their bones are softer. Like, everything's a little bit softer, which makes it feel, as teachers, like they should be doing more. And so it's easy to be like, just try this. And it's not a big deal for dancers, but it's also our responsibility to know that that's when they're the most susceptible to long term effects because their body hasn't developed and their body can do that stuff. And so it's kind of like, as a teacher, we're like, it can, but it shouldn't. And so how do we, in such a competitive environment, as teachers of highly competitive studios, be like, okay, I know that this is the boundary. And I have to explain to that parent that can see their kid doing it at home, oh, I know her leg will go there, but it's not where it should be going. Like, you know, parents are really excited to get their dancers to the next level. They're like, they saw this on YouTube and they've tried it at home and they can do it and now they're bringing it to you. And so it's hard to set a boundary and explain the dynamics of like, this is, this is the quickest way for your dancer to be injured. And it does look like they can do it, but it's not, it's really not safe. And this is why. And so in our program especially, we try to honor that because, yeah, the dancers can do it, you know, and a lot of dancers are doing it, and it's hard to be the teacher that's like, not us, you know?

Yeah, it's so hard. And I really blame Instagram for this as well, because they see these other kids doing it and then they're like, that's what my child should be doing. And, and you know, as I said to you before, when we've been chatting before this at comp, when they're winning those kids that are doing those tricks, then the other parents are like, well, I need my kids to do those tricks to win. Is it such a vicious circle?

It's a yes. It's a crazy cycle because the parent, the dancers are seeing it, the dancers want to do it, they're seeing it in a competition. It's winning a competition. And so you're coming back. And actually, funny enough, I saw like a picture of a dancer and it was like, her leg was super mobile. I mean, like, it was beyond her head. She was like, her hips were just widely. She was tiny, maybe like seven or eight. But her supporting knee was like bowing in. And I was like, if that goes up with force one too many times, that knee is gonna, it's gonna completely burst. Like, there's so much pressure on the inside of that nape. But the funny thing was that that picture had like a hundred thousand likes. And I was like, how is no one seeing how Dangerous. This is. How are so many people, like, because when a dancer gets a hundred thousand likes on a picture, they're going to keep doing that or they're going to go to that next extreme, right?

Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's, it's. I think it's educating our staff, it's educating our teachers in different ways to teach things. I mean, we know that tricks are needed now. You know, we have to be able to do tricks to be competitive. I know you're a judge in America. That must be crazy. Like some wild, wild stuff.

It's hard and I don't know how it is in Australia, but, like, everything. And I love, I love acro. It has its place. I think it's really impressive. But, like, contemporary doesn't call for it. Or like, lyrical doesn't really call for it. And so we end up getting a bunch of solos that look very acro based. And it's not an acro or open category. And so we're seeing, like, I'm sure you are too, the craziest themes. But I'm like, hey, you know what? If we had that stuff in acro pieces or we had those, those elements and open pieces, that's one opportunity for the dancer to practice that and do a great job. But if they're rehearsing those contortion moves and that, like, over ext tension of the back and like, certain things that are happening in acro in every single dance, every single hour, and a lot of times jumping onto the stage cold, we're kind of pulling out a recipe for them to eventually just break up, break down within their body.

And like. So as a judge, do you then mark them down or are you like, well, I can't mark the child. That's the hard part. Right, so you can't. Yeah, so you can't mark the child down because the child has worked really hard at that and is really, really great at it. So those skills are in there. But then what you're saying is wrong. So. But like, this is interesting coming from a studio owner. Right? Because that I think, okay, I would love some help from a judge with that. But then I don't get the help because you guys can't do that. And so it's just like, it's, again, vicious circle here.

It's a vicious cycle. Yeah, well. And you know, like, as a judge, that would go under in America. That would go under choreography.

Right.

So it gets a little sensitive because our number one mark would probably be if the dancer's doing it accurately we can't take away from technique points. We can't take away from performance if they're performing really well. So the mark would go to. To choreography. And so, like, it's a fine line when you start to nitpick the choreography, because that's where people start to get sensitive. It's like, well, teachers and studio owners are probably pretty happy if it's, like, feedback for the dancers. But if you're saying, like, hey, choreographically, I don't think this belongs here, it becomes a little more personal. So I think that's where it's hard. It's like a fine line because you do want to say something, but it really is, like, that's the competition's client, whereas, like, the dancer's not really, you know.

Yeah, it's. It's a.

It's a weird base of when you're allowed to talk about choreography and when you're not depending on the comp you're working for. So I don't know how they are there. Do you notice that they'll bring up choreography a lot or.

Not really. And we don't. I don't think there's that many competitions that have, like, choreography. Like, it doesn't really divvy it out as much. In Australia. I think it's just a mark out of 100, and that's kind of it. So I don't know that we have that many that divvy it out. We do have a few, but I don't. Yeah, it's. It's a very outspoken judge that will say that in our three. And there's one who just did. I'm not going to say who, but I actually really appreciated it. Good.

I was curious. Okay.

I really did, because I thought. And it's funny, like, BB My daughter does comp, and she does a Broadway solo. Okay. Now, Bibi is an amazing singer. Amazing. So this judge said, why would you not sing in this category? You've got an amazing voice. Because she knows, baby, you've got an amazing voice. Why aren't you singing this category, but you don't sing in a Broadway category in Australia? Like, you just wouldn't do it like, it's a dance. I don't know if you have this in America, but it's a dance to a Broadway song.

Exactly.

Makes no sense. It makes no sense in our industry when you think about it. Because if you are on Broadway, you gonna sing it.

Point taken. Yeah, that's.

And so this judge, I guess, isn't really in that computer Industry. And, and I thought what you're saying is completely right. It's completely right. And she also said these steps that you're doing on the floor would also never be seen in a Broadway musical of any type. And I'm like, correct. They wouldn't.

You know, you appreciated that. I love.

And then she was candid in a lot of ways as well. And I, and I did really appreciate it because I do think we need to, if we're going to see any type of change, we need to be brave to step out and make the change. Because I absolutely, you know, I often say to my parents, yes, we can teach them those tricks and yes, they probably need them for their solos, but I'm just letting you know they will never, ever use those tricks on contract, ever.

Amen. Amen. And we were saying this, like, I was sharing that. You know, I just talked to some high schoolers last week and they were like, how do you feel about seeing all these tricks and performances? And I said, it makes me a little bit sad because you're destroying your body over something you're never going to really be asked to do later. So you're, you know, doing a lot of sacrifice for a comp. Research the jobs you really want later and see what they're really going to require you to do and train your body to do that really well. Like you can go on a dietitian and you can nail that type of movement quality and that level of technique anytime they ask you to do it, that's the person that's going to book the job, you know. But like, if you're going on Broadway and you've been doing contortion work for 10 years, your body is breaking itself down and you're not even going in the movement patterns that are going to be required of you in Broadway. So when you go to do the other style, it's not going to feel natural in your body. And people that have trained in those styles are just going to go in and crush it. So figure out really what you want to do. Don't, like, don't pigeonhole yourself into one thing, but like, if you love contemporary and you love musical theater, take tap classes, learn how to sing, make sure that you can do Broadway style movements, make sure that you have really strong jazz technique. If you like contemporary, make sure you have really strong ballet, make sure you have great jazz, make sure you can move in contemporary ways. And a lot of times contemporary is becoming very acro based. Well, I appreciate acro for what it is, but again, you're not going to be in Complexions Contemporary Ballet company doing acro across the stage. You're going to be doing really gorgeous lines and extensions that are developed accurately in your body, and they're not going to care if you can do that other stuff. So, you know, just developing our body and researching, like, okay, what does it take? And I think as teachers, knowing our dancers and being like, okay, you're in high school now. What are your aspirations? And I'm going to help you get there. But a dancer that does a contemporary solo, ten years straight and they want to be on Broadway, it's like, do a musical theater solo. You know, this is your time with your teacher. One on one, they are going to nurture you. They're going to sew into you. They're going to get you to the highest level of that Broadway solo that you can be. And so now you're actually working towards your dreams where if you do another contemporary solo, you might win at competition because you've done it for 10 years and you're great at it, right? But you're not making strides towards your future, right? You're just getting a better score than last year. I don't know.

You know, trophy, I mean, bb, you know, comes home and this is so awful. Sorry if any competitor competitions are listening that BB Goes to. But we come home and she puts her trophies in the bin. Because I'm like, what are we going.

To do with them?

You know, like, there's only so much space. I don't have a trophy room. Like, some people have a whole trophy room dedicated to trophy. They do the whole thing. It's a whole thing. But, like, we don't have that. So it's just like, for what? I think we just have to sometimes question for what? You know, like, what are we doing it for? One of my friends the other day I said to you before was saying, it's like we're training them to be lawyers, but then they're actually going to get a job at McDonald's. Because these kids, what they can achieve and the tricks and stuff that they're doing are just not employable.

They actually. No, it's not employable.

Like, that's the. So, yeah, it's just insane. And you.

You know, it's interesting too, because I was telling somebody this recently that I was teaching a convention class and some. And there was specific choreography that I gave the dancers and it was like a double pirouette, which is not a ton of pirouettes, into a grand ronda. Jam. Right. And one dancer did like six pirouettes and then cut the leg off to be almost nothing. And I, I basically stopped the convention. I said, hey, you change the choreography to be something that you're good at instead of really trying to honor the choreography and develop more as a dancer. But if I was a casting director, to me, you're unhirable because you can't dance in a group. You took what I gave you and you didn't do it because you wanted to look better or feel better. And so you kind of tweaked it to fit you versus, like really pushing yourself to fit what was given to you. Right. And I think that's important too, is like, it's okay not to be comfortable, especially in class. This is the time to kind of mess up and struggle and like get better. And like you said, with the trophies, it's like, well, even going a step beyond that, you're not going to put this on your resume either. You're not going to say one double platinum crystal plus, you know, like, whatever comp, it's not going anywhere. So you do it for the experience, do it to get feedback from judges and to develop, but don't do it for a trophy because like you said, McDonald's also doesn't care if you have trophies. Yeah.

Like, is this. Yes. So crazy. So crazy. Well, I wanted to ask you. So, you know, we are trying to get to this high level. And one of the things that I talk about a lot and what I get asked a lot from my studio owner clients is how can I get my kids to a higher level. So, you know, we have a really high level at pause. We've had a lot of kids go on to careers, so they always want to ask that how. And I always talk about muscle memory. I know you're really passionate about this as well, but just getting the exact right alignment from the get go is so important. Like, so important.

Yeah. And I'm obsessed with this because it the. The difference in. And I try to explain this to dancers too, because the difference in an inch of alignment, especially when it comes to your pelvis and your hip joint, it's like an inch could be your leg digging straight into the bone. Are you having completely beautiful turnout if you can like, figure out exactly that placement. And so the thing is, an inch when you're in one moment becomes like six inches when you're in a, in a more extreme position. And so when you're little, it's like. And we talk about this, it's like, when you're little and. And we're training our dancers, every time we can get them into a more precise alignment and develop them up is going to help. Now, if they're seniors or, like, they're in high school and they've done years of bad muscle memory, it's like, it's hard. And honestly, it feels defeating because the dancer has. They see their lines go up, and it's almost like, hard to convince them to bring their leg back down and to fix it, to have, like, really long term, like, technique. But here's the thing. I feel like your body wants to be in the correct alignment. A lot of times the dancers think that technique is supposed to hurt, and it's hurting because it's like you're digging your leg into that bone. You're, like, cranking it here. You're. You know, there's a sharp pain going in here. And they've been doing it for so long that they've just accepted it's supposed to be painful. And one thing with our apparel specifically is like, if I'm looking at the dancer and I'm like, okay, I can only see your grave. Each for this alignment. Now, the dancers have this, like, pinpointed, crazy amount of focus. Even if they're like. And I see this a lot in ADHD dancers too, because they typically, their mind goes everywhere. So if you can get them to, like, a super pinpointed goal, they almost, like, over obsess with it. One of my kids is adhd and it's, like, so cool to watch them kind of like hyper focus, but, like, to see that blue panel and then to just, like, be working on it and knowing that they can't force it, they have to use that muscle to get it to happen. But then once we get like an inch difference or like a couple of inches difference, the things that they can do with their body at that point are insane. And I'm like, okay, you haven't mastered the whole technique yet, but you've seen that your body can do it. And as long as your body can do it, you can train it to do it. So, like, now you at least know this is possible. And I'm able to do it. And I've taken the first step and look at where you've gotten. And so we just try to, like, from that point of assessment, build the belief up in them because we're like, hey, if you. If you can get your body to do it once, it's repeatable and you can train anything from this position. So Yeah, I would say be really like those fundamentals and placement issues, especially around the pelvis. If you can figure that out as a teacher, I would say almost 90% of all your other corrections are going to come from your pelvic alignment. So if your dancers are older and you're like, man, how am I ever going to lock this in? Start at their pelvis, see if you can lock in alignment there. And once you can, almost everything else you've wanted your dancers to do is going to unfold. And their body, no matter how long it's been in the wrong position, the body wants to to go where it's designed to be. So once you start training it right, it's going to take to it, you know, so it's just a matter of getting the dancers to feel it, then they can replicate it a million times.

And I know you're so passionate about teacher training. I am too, because I feel like, you know, again, like a lot of my clients will say, you know, that they just don't have good stuff. Where do you get good stuff? How do you find good teachers? And I'm always like, train them. Like, train them, you know, like, train them in relative motion. If you don't have the technique at your studio and your teachers don't have the knowledge on how to get that technique and how to get it safely, the no brainer for me is to get someone like you in there to train them so that they know how to do it, they've got the tools, and they can get the kids to that level. Like, that just makes sense, right? Yeah.

And, you know, it's interesting because we've had everybody from, like, people that really struggle with understanding anatomy as a teacher to people that have PT backgrounds and they're like, oh, I just, like, want to know more. I want to see it from a dance perspective. And so when we have pts on our team that go over all of our exercises, go over all of our training processes, and they're like, okay, this is how, like, it develops with the body. This is like how the body's designed. This is how people think. This is how it works. So we always have, like, checks and balances to make sure that we're on track in that sense. But it's also like, we've created our teacher training in a way where no matter where you are coming at it, whether you're like new to anatomy and you're like, this is really overwhelming, or you have such an intense background, we've designed it so it like can up level Any, anybody where it's like, okay, if you're a PT background, here's how we're going to think about it in dance. It's going to kind of like shake the system a little bit. And then for new to anatomy, we're like, okay, instead of thinking about the complexity, let's just think about the colors. And these are the goals. This is what you want your dancers to see. This is how you know within a single class that they're understanding it. Because our theory is that if you can get dancers, every single class to leave like feeling like an aha moment, like, oh, I understand my body more. Oh, I can do it more. Oh, I saw major improvements then they're not only practicing at home, but they're excited to come back. And so getting the dancer excited and believing in themselves and actually seeing real results every class is what we kind of sew into our teachers during their teacher training. Because if the teachers are succeeding and they're confident in what they're teaching and then the dancers are confident, the. The whole program explodes. It's really awesome.

I love that. I love that. Well, we're going to finish up, but let me know how people can get in touch with you because I know that you are going to come to Expo in April potentially do some workshops. I know, I'm so excited. Actually do some workshops and things like that. What is the best way for them to get in touch with you about all of that? What would you suggest? Well, one. Yeah, obviously one.

Yes. Register for Dance Teacher Expo because I'm going to tell you this, it is such a life changing conference. I was so lucky to teach two classes there last year. The other people in the community are incredible. Incredible. Becks, obviously. Incredible. It's just a really high energy, like, powerful conference. So if you're looking for something to even reinspire you during the season or up level you in business or in technique, that is the place to be. I tell everybody, I'm like, if you're in Australia, you should be coming to this. Yeah. And so that would be my number one. I'll be teaching class there. So if you're there, come take class. That's the fastest way to see like what we do and how we do it. Find us on relative motion dance on Instagram. Like you can kind of see our work and you can start to connect with us. Messages there. We can have conversations. Our website's relativemotiondance.com and like Beck said, we're gonna come a few days before Expo and we're gonna leave a couple of days after. So if you're like, oh, you'd like to see this on our dancers and on our teachers, we're happy to work something out to be with you in person as well.

Yay. Amazing. Thank you so much, Cara. It has been an incredible podcast. Hope you all have a wonderful and I will chat to you next week. Thanks, guys. Bye.