From Live Launches to Circuit Selling: A Game-Changing Marketing Strategy

Learning drains energy. It's tiring. I'm sure you've done the same thing where you're like, oh, I'm really excited to learn from this course. Like schedule out time in the day to sit down and watch this course. Because learning, while important, is not exciting. It's actually a little bit of an energy drain. So when we're still trying to teach, teach, teach, instead of getting people excited and inspired, all we're doing is like draining their energy. And if we give them a small win, they're like, oh, all right, I could take this and I can figure out the rest of it. Or they want to make the most of that small minute, maybe they'll invest later. But instead teaching. You want to give people breakthroughs, show them why they haven't worked and what does work instead. Because there's never going to be anybody who's interacting with you, who hasn't tried to be successful in the sphere. But something that they've tried wasn't right. Something that they've tried was a wrong direction to go. So when you show them exactly why it's incorrect, it will also validate the fact that they haven't been successful, which is powerful messaging. Anyway. Hello. Hello.

Welcome back for another episode. Today is going to be a fun conversation if you are thinking about shifting or intrigued by an easier, streamlined, more simplified way to invite people into your courses or your programs. So this episode is for our business owners, it's for our professionals with a marketing hat on. And today's guest is Nikki Crouch, a 20 year copywriting veteran and founder of multi brand multi seven figure per year digital training company. Her team's newest brand, the Circuit sales system, teaches online business owners the automated scalable customer centric system she created to 40x her business revenue in just over two years. Nicki is going to share some of the results more specifically. So be like, well, 40x40 times. What? Don't worry, Nikki has those details in this episode today. And one of the things that's so cool is that Nikki created a model that she used on her brand and she tested it on her brand and she worked through the ins and the outs on her brand before she created what is now called the circuit selling system, which we're going to talk about a bit in this business. And essentially this is a way of, well, you're just going to have to listen in. Wait until you hear the ins and outs of this and how this is different from live launching, how this is different from ongoing nurturing, nurturing and how it does that really beautifully, but in a way that gets your clients and your customers answers to their problems sooner. I can't wait to hear what you think of this episode. Leave a review. Let us know what you think. If you liked something in this episode or you got a nugget that you're going to go forward and implement. And definitely tag me in @ Amber McHugh on Instagram if you have a nugget to share because we love connecting with you in all the places, do this. Hey, Nikki. Welcome to this episode. Hello.

Thank you for having me.

Oh, my gosh. This is going to be so much fun. First up, how are you doing today?

I'm good. I'm having a great day. How's your day? Good.

I'm so glad to hear, you know, doing okay over here. It's a little overcast, so I'm a little thrown for a loop. Is it going to rain? I like my sunshine coming in the window. I've been spoiled with the sunshine here.

Yeah. I'm in Massachusetts, which means that we never know what the weather is actually going to be. And whether it's spring or summer or fall. It's. It's complicated. Yeah.

Yeah, it's complicated. You know, good word for my relationship with online marketing. It's complicated.

Such smooth transition.

You know, I was thinking, and I know that you have some perspectives on marketing tactics that everybody's doing that are actually bad for business.

Yeah, yeah. Or at the very least, I would say that they are maybe misguided, but there are all kinds of things that, you know, people tell us we have to do this and you have to do that. And the funny thing is, too, these things that you have to do, they come in cycles. So, like, I know you remember, like, three years ago, everybody had to do a free Facebook group. Oh, my gosh. That's how you nurture people. You have to do a free Facebook group. And then a little little while later, it's, you have to do a challenge. Oh, no, it has to be a free challenge. No, now it has to be a paid challenge. It will tell you that if anybody is telling you you have to do it, then maybe you might want to do a little bit of research and a little bit of thinking to figure out, does this actually work for you and does that actually work for the way that you want to build your business? I always kind of laugh and say that I'm a lazy business owner, which is not at all true. But when it came to things like that, well, everybody's doing free Facebook group. Well, I. Okay, well, I don't want to do a Facebook group. I don't want to give away all kinds of free content and spend all this time trying to nurture this group who may or may not actually purchase from me. And unfortunately, too, you know, the digital marketing. I love that you said that. Your relationship with it is complicated, and it should be, because in a lot of ways, digital marketing industry is like an echo chamber. And sometimes it's an echo chamber of bad advice. You know, there are so many people who are out there going, oh, you have to do this, you have to do this. You have to do this without actually ever identifying whether it's something. Something that works. You know, there's so much advice that's being repeated without it actually being proven. And even worse, there are people teaching tactics that they've never actually proven. So certainly could a Facebook group work whatever. Which is. That's another question. What does work mean? But certainly could a pay challenge work? Yeah, but there are also better ways to get people into your programs without having to give away a bunch of free stuff and having to spend all your time on people who haven't paid you yet. The people we should be spending our time with are the people who've invested in our programs. And there's just all kinds of things that we do, these tactics that go against how people actually want to purchase and how in customer psychology as a whole.

I love this. Okay, so bringing up customer psychology as you're thinking about what approach you should take to build your sales and marketing strategy. You know, you mentioned, like, is it the right strategy for you? And then how do you sort of weave through the consumer psychology and what your clients want and bring those together? So how do you think about approaching building your strategy for marketing?

It's such a great question because I think so many of us have been taught just to think in terms of what we want for our business. Okay, well, we want this, and this is when I'm going to schedule it. And this is how this has to work for me. When what we end up doing is we focus entirely on our own schedules and our own needs, and we forget our prospective clients are our leads completely. Like, for example, at the moment when someone discovers you, they get on your email list, they start following your social media. That is the moment of peak excitement. They will never be as excited about you and as excited about what you have to offer as in that moment. And instead of, I don't want to say taking advantage, because sometimes that can sound like a bad thing. But instead of optimizing your, your sales process so that you catch them in that moment of peak excitement and you give them the right messaging so that they can move forward with you instead, what we usually do is like, while we to nurture them, they're most excited. But instead of giving them something, we're like, well, I have to send them a series of emails to tell them who I am, why I'm passionate about what I do, all of this about my family and this. And so that all of this time we think we're nurturing them and we think we're building a relationship, all that we're doing is burning up that valuable excitement. So by the time we make them an offer, if we make them an offer anytime soon, they're already like, I'm kind of interested in what she has to offer. And it's the same thing with live launches or with challenges or that kind of thing. You know, we pick an arbitrary week in the year, maybe week and the quarter we go, okay, great, if someone wants to purchase from me, they have to purchase from me then during that week. But that might not be the right time for them. You know, they might have needed it much sooner.

Yeah. And I think in this space in time where things are changing very quickly and we are going through as individuals, as business owners, as consumers, a shift and a reset in how we show up and the pace at which we're living life and the pace in which things are changing. So if I've got a challenge, I'm like, I'm ready to solve it. Like now it's like, let's go versus waiting through a sequence or a launch. And so if you think about sort of that pace and the changes, right. The rapid fire climate that we are in right now, where things are moving fairly quickly, what is the better approach?

So as you're thinking about your sales, as you're thinking about your marketing, you need to make things easy. Compelling.

Of course, right.

That's the first thing. Your messaging has to be compelling. But you also need to make things really, really easy for your target audience to consume. You know, you can't the old school webinar of meet me on Thursday at 6pm and they get penalized if they don't show up at 6pm or it's, it's again, that's all about our schedule. So how can you make it easy for them to consume? You have to have some urgency in there. Certainly some deadlines, people don't take action if they don't have a deadline. But you can structure things so that people can consume it on their own schedule. And you know, a webinar. Will I have to show up for the webinar. I have to. What if instead you give them an on demand video and they know they've got four or five days to watch it and then they can consume it over the course of those four or five days and of course you structure it to make it really, really good so they keep wanting to come back. But like in our program, we see exceedingly high completion rates for that video because again, very compelling messaging, aside from what we usually do in webinars, it's totally different type of messaging, but also letting people spread that out and over the course of a couple of days, watch it over like a season, you know, watch it over a couple of days versus making people watch it on your schedule all at once. It's so much better for the consumer, better for a potential purchaser.

You know, one of the things that this is bringing to mind is this idea that people, I'm hearing from many people, we want to get back in person. And online workshops, you know, I don't know about on demand, so this is interesting. But our watch on demand or replay, if there's a workshop and you allow for a replay of that, are those watch rates going down or in the work that you do, are you seeing that? No, they're pretty much par for course because we have the right messaging and the right incentives or. So what are you seeing there? Real time?

Well, it depends, right? If it's the standard, like it's a webinar, teach like crazy. And then, yeah, first of all, people staying on that call are plummeting drastically. But then also watching the replay is going down as well, because remember, it's that same thing. If someone got on your email list, they're interested in you, then they had to wait and now they hear about the webinar. Okay. But then they couldn't attend the webinar because life happens. How many times have you signed up for a webinar you like, absolutely want to be there and then something happens and then even still, then the replay comes through maybe a day later or at that point it's not a priority for them. And you can certainly message them like crazy and try to build that back up again, but you're never going to have that same level of excitement. And to your point about being live. Yes. I think part of that is from us business owners who are used to being able to like, attend stuff and go to conferences and we want to get out of the house because we're stuck in the house every day. But that's a little bit different from your perspective. Audience having to see you live. I hear that a lot. Like, oh, my audience has to see me live. My audience has to see me live. No, your. Your audience doesn't have to see you live. You can still have that same level of excitement, and they can still have that same level of engagement and interest in what you have to say when. Without seeing you live. You know, listening to this podcast and really, all of your podcast episodes and all of my podcast episodes, they're not live. Right. But we still deliver very interesting, very compelling, very useful pieces of information. And that doesn't mean that people go, well, I'm not getting to listen to Amber live, so why would I even bother with this podcast? No, it's all about what's in it. And the problem is, is that people are still putting, teach. Give them your best stuff. Just teach like crazy. Give them a little win that stuff. It might have worked, you know, five, seven years ago, but it doesn't work anymore. Teaching is not the way to go about getting people to attend and to stay and then, of course, to purchase from you afterwards. Yeah.

Because there is a bit of this reality that there is a lot of information available at our fingertips instantly. So what makes it more compelling for me to show up, whether it's live or otherwise? Because I'm hearing, like, okay, teach it all. Like, I'm going to teach you. This thing isn't quite working. What is the better approach?

That's a great question. And I don't blame people for being like, well, I have to teach, because what else would I talk about? Because this is not a way that we've been thinking about this before, but when you think about it, learning, while important and certainly want them to learn once they purchase their course, but they purchase their program. Learning drains energy. It's tiring. Right. I'm sure you've done the same thing where you're like, oh, I'm really excited to learn from this course. Really schedule out time in the day to sit down and watch this course.

Be.

Because learning, while important, is not exciting. It's actually a little bit of an energy drain. So when we're still trying to teach, teach, teach. Instead of getting people excited and inspired, all we're doing is, like, draining their energy. And if we give them a small win, they're like, oh, all right, I could take this and I can figure out the rest of it. Or they Want to make the most of small men, or maybe they'll invest later. But instead of teaching, you want to give people breakthroughs, right? Show them why all of the things that they've done before that haven't worked. Show them why they haven't worked and what does work instead. Because there's never going to be anybody who's interacting with you that hasn't tried to get the end result before. You know, who hasn't tried to be successful in the sphere. But something that they've tried wasn't right. Something that they've tried was a wrong direction to go. So when you show them exactly why this piece of advice or this tactic or this information, or show them exactly why it's incorrect, help them also validate the fact that they haven't been successful, which is powerful messaging anyway. But show them why this hasn't been correct, and then show them actually what does work and why it works. First of all, they have a major breakthrough. They understand why they haven't been successful in the past, which again, that validation. But then also you, because you've just completely opened their eyes and set aside all of this, you know, industry information that everybody says is the way you have to do it, they have a breakthrough through, and you become the expert in their eyes because you've just proven that you know better than all of this other stuff that people are saying you have to do, you have to do, and you've proven it by validating their own experience. Didn't work for them. And you say, yeah, of course it didn't work for you. Here's why. And here's what does work. It's a really, really powerful messaging, but it's also a really powerful interaction with your target audience and it really builds a connection incredibly quickly.

So good. Okay, so one of the first things that comes to mind for me is that sometimes we know our material, our content, our area of expertise so well that it's hard to see those things. Like, okay, that you've tried this, you've tried that you've tried. Like, we have what sometimes is referred to as the curse of knowledge. Right. So we can't see. So how do you, you know, we were talking a bit about consumer psychology. How do you dig into, okay, here are all the things that you've tried so you can help people identify breakthroughs. How do you go deep into that and build that?

Yeah, it's the thing that nobody wants to do. When I warn my students, I'm like, I'm going to tell you to do this and you're not going to want to do it. But if you want to be successful, you have to do it. You have to get on the phone with people and you have to ask them the right questions to dig into what their concerns are, what their fears are, what they've come up against in the past, why they're afraid that they can't be successful going down, all of this. And also, not just the people who purchase from you, but also the people who haven't purchased from you and the people who have not yet had an opportunity, opportunity to purchase because you really want to dig into them and can't just send a survey as much as like, oh, yeah, yeah, I will learn about my target audience. I'm. I'm just gonna send a survey that, that'll be fine right now. Now, because you get a totally different type of response when you're actually talking to someone. You build a little bit of rapport because people always, when they first talk to you, they'll give you the surface level reason, well, I want to do this, you know, because of this. But that's often not the real reason. Like the example I always give is if you have a weight loss course, maybe, and you talk to someone and they say, well, why would you like to lose weight? And they will usually say something very palatable, like, you know, I want to get healthier. I think it's time for me to get healthier. Yes, awesome. All of us want to get healthier. But if you have a conversation with them and you get a little bit more comfortable and they get more comfortable with you and you can dig in a little bit deeper, then you're going to get to the real reason, which is going to be something more along the lines of, my high school reunion is in six months, and if my ex husband shows up with his new wife and she looks better than I, I'm going to stab myself in the eye with a fork. You know, something like that. That's, that's the real reason. And that's the reason why someone's going to pull out their credit card. Not because I want to be healthy, but this compelling reason. And so digging in and talking to your target audience is really, really important. But anyway, back to misinformation they've been getting. That's also stuff that you're going to hear on those calls. But you're also going to, if you have, you know, communities, if you have Facebook groups, or if you have coaching calls, you're going to hear this kind of stuff being like, well, I've always heard that you have to do this. It's the kind of stuff that makes you go, oh my God, I can't believe I have to say this again, not obviously you would never actually say that to them, but it's the stuff.

You go, yeah, exactly.

I can't believe people are still thinking this. You know, we've said it again and again. So we have a multi brand digital company. And so one of our brands, our first brand is a professional copywriting course, trains people to become professional copywriters. And again and again they would hear that they had to choose a niche in order to be. Or niche, however you want to say it, in order to be successful. Right. The riches are in the niches. Although just because something rhymes does not mean that it's true for them. It's. They're way too new to copywriting to possibly be able to choose a niche and they couldn't possibly know. And then it also limits their income. And so we go through all of this, but when we explain this to them, it's a light bulb moment. It validates why they were having so much trouble choosing a niche, even though everybody says they have to choose niche. So we explain to them why it's not a good idea and why it's actually better to have a depth and breadth of experience. It they immediately trust us more and they are willing to go on much more of a customer journey with us. But that's the kind of stuff you can only find out by actually talking to people.

I love that. And I have a similar perspective. Right. When I was early on in my business, niche, niche, niche. I'm like, but I didn't know enough yet. Right. And still, still I probably have not niched down enough. And it's fine. Like it is. Okay. Because there are different ways to approach our sales and marketing. Multiple ways to your point. So what is aligned for you? Oh my gosh. Full circle from the beginning of our conversation. And also you mentioned your multiple brands. So can you tell us what your various brands are in your company?

Yeah. So our parent company is Nikki K Media and our first brand is Filthy Rich Writer, which is our copywriting training. And the program is the Comprehensive Copywriting Academy. And we actually just celebrated having 10,000 students join, which is amazing. Yes. Nikki of 2012 would not even be able to fathom that. But then we also have our freelance success framework and the fired up freelance brand. And then our new newest one is the Circuit sales system, which is. That is the system that I developed when I was selling the other two brands so that I could be selling them without having to do the Facebook group and with that, so that they sell automatically every day on autopilot. We do not live launch at all. We have some special live events here and there, but we do not live launch. And we've scaled to multi seven figures a year, which is very exciting. And moving on up, up beyond that as well.

This is so cool. So you. What I love about this is that you built out this methodology based on what you were doing. You didn't sit down and say, okay, I want to do this different. No, you were actually doing it and then applied it here. Can you tell us more about this? No Facebook group, no live launching is social media. Very light social media.

We've actually been dialing that back because I think one of the things that's another thing that we kind of get. Well, you have to post, you have to do reels, and you have to do this. And it. Even though my line in the sand is like, don't do what everybody else does, it's still very tempting, even with social media.

Every now and then you got to test drive.

Exactly, exactly. But no, really, the circus sales system came about because, you know, I started the filthy rich writer brand in 2012, and up until 2018, we were selling and it was a great brand and people were. They were. Were successful. They're building successful copywriting careers. But I couldn't figure out how to sell it. I tried all the things, right? We've all, like, I tried live launching. Like, I tried challenges. Actually, I don't think I ever tried a free Facebook group. So I was like, I don't want to. But I tried structuring it as a membership. I tried all of those things. And when I Finally, in 2018, step back and went, okay, wait a minute. Now, my background is in copywriting. I've been a professional copywriter for 20 years. I've worked for, you know, multibillion dollar companies and. And I finally stepped back and went, okay, well, first of all, how is my messaging? Let's revisit my messaging based on what I know, but more importantly, let's revisit it based on what I know consumers are looking for. What is that? Consumer journey. And like that back to the. Everybody says you have to be nurturing them. Oh, that's not true. You don't have to be nurturing them. You can be nurturing and selling simultaneously. Instead of wasting time nurturing them, you can be selling to them simultaneously when they want that Solution. So much of the stuff that have been doing is antithetical to what the consumer actually wants to have happen. And so I developed the system to sell the Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and the Freelance Success Framework. And then toward the beginning of last year, some of my entrepreneur friends were saying, can you teach us how to do that? What is the system and how do we do that? So I launched the third brand, the circuit Sales system, and which we call it because it's a closed circle circuit and it runs automatically. Once people get into that circuit, they just cycle through until they purchase at some point. Or of course they could unsubscribe, but yeah, if they unsubscribe, they weren't meant to be with us anyway.

Okay, so tell us more about that. It's a closed circuit. It's not like, hop in, watch this on demand thing, and then it's over, it's ongoing.

Tell us exactly. So that's one of the big problems with the way most people do evergreen. Well, first of all, you know, people will sometimes say, oh, it's evergreen. It's just on my site, you can buy it at any time. Which never works because. Or at least the conversions are super duper low. Because if people can buy anytime, they just won't. Right. And then the second one, people do Evergreen and they say, all right, well, I just send them into my funnel and I'll give them the opportunity to purchase. So whenever they sign up for email, there's an opportunity to purchase. But the problem with that is often they're not structured very well, so the conversion is low. But also once that opportunity is over, then you just give up on them. And that's crazy because if someone got onto your email list and they're still on your email list, there's always a chance that they may purchase from you. Right. If they really don't like your stuff, they will take the time to get off your list. If they are still looking at, and certainly purge your list. If they're opening your emails though, and at least looking at something, there's always a chance that they will purchase. So what you can do and what we do is, yes, because that excitement is highest. First of all, we give them really, really compelling sales, messaging and, and selling and nurturing at the same time. So we give them really, really compelling messaging and give them great stuff, lots of great reasons, all kinds of stuff to support that. But if they don't purchase it, because there's just some people that just won't. Right. It's genuinely not the Right time. Maybe they actually don't have the money. They're within that closed circuit. So then for us it's 90 days, depending on the brand. But they get weekly podcast emails or whatever, but, but another sales sequence will open for them again automatically, where again, they still get that excitement. And so for them, it feels like a live launch. Right. They get all of the excitement, all of the anticipation. It feels like a live launch to them. So it's very compelling. But for us, it all happens automatically. Once someone gets into the circuit, everything happens automatically. Like I said, there are enhancements that we have built on after years of working on it. For the other brands, there are enhancements, announcements. There is the opportunity to do some, some live stuff. There's the opportunity to do sales calls if you want to do sales calls. But for the most part it's. You turn it on and then you let it go. And certainly you can optimize here and there, but it's, it's a very different way of doing business. And I'm so glad that, that I do it this way.

This is really cool. Okay, so I'm hearing a couple things I want to follow up on. The first is you go through this, this sales sequence and nurture right at the same time.

Same time.

And maybe it's not the right time to buy. So we're going to keep loving you, following up on you. And a sales sequence you mentioned will reopen again after. Do you have a recommended amount of time where you reopen?

Depends on the audience and the audience's needs. Ninety days can be good, you know, roughly three months. But if there are time constraints on an audience. For example, one of our students, she's a board certified JARO psychologist. I think that's it. I don't know. She's one of only a handful in the country and she has this program that teaches caretakers of people with dementia how to care for those loved ones well, but also to care for themselves. And with a target audience like that, maybe they initially decide they don't need it, but their loved one could. I don't, I'm trying to think of a nicer way to put it, but, but take a turn for the worst or develop stronger symptoms on a different timeline. So it made 90 days might be a little bit too far out, whereas 60 days has a better. And again, it's about, yes, it's about making things compelling. There has to be some urgency. There has to be some limitations in it. But at the same time, too, you can look at your target Audience think, okay, how can I make this better for them? She can look at her target audience and say, you know what, there's a good chance that they might need it sooner than they think they do because they don't know this is their first time likely caring for someone with dementia. So she can. Can look at her circuit and say, okay, you know what, I'm actually going to structure this a little bit different because they don't know this, but they're probably going to need it sooner than they think they do. So it's digging into. That's actually, that's a big part of the program is digging into your target audience and really getting to know them. So many of us think that we know our target audience, and certainly to a certain degree we do. But there are always ways that we could know them better and better insights that we could get that can help us help them more.

Mm. So good. Okay. So as we sort of blow out this circuit concept just to give people the full idea. You're not turning on a sales sequence does not equal writing a whole new sequence.

No, no.

Yeah.

What we recommend for our students is that there's some nurturing, certainly just to get people re excited. And those we do recommend that you create fresh. But the sales email, for the most part, you can reuse a lot of what you've put together before, and we teach our students exactly how to do it. But when you have written really, really great, compelling emails, you don't need to rewrite them, you know, change out the subject line, certainly keep them fresh, change out the testimonials you have in there. Maybe if you highlighted one bonus in sales sequence one, maybe you highlight a different bonus in sales sequence two. But for the most part, because you do the heavy lifting at the beginning, you do the hard work at the beginning. After that, a lot of it is going to be reus usable. It's a lot of thinking and it's some work. But of course, you want seven figures or you want multi seven figures. It takes some work. But we do that insightful thinking at the beginning so that you can then use that throughout all of your touch points. And that includes social too. You know, the messaging that you work on can be used on social. It can be used if you're a guest speaker at a summit, it can be used there. It can be used in all kinds of different places. So we never want to you reinvent the wheel or do unnecessary work. Your messaging is too important to be kind of guessing at what you should say, like, oh, I have to come up with something fresh. So like, oh, okay, let me just put something together, you know.

No, it's so thoughtful and well thought out. Which also makes me think of the data analysis that you have the opportunity to do. So what kind of data do you look at and how often do you make adjustments based on what you're seeing?

It's a great question. And that is super duper important because, well, there are all kinds of things you can look at, right? Which is true for all of us. But you can look at email open rate, you can look at email click through rate, you can look at opt in rate for the emails. Obviously if you're running ads, look at all those. You can look at video completion, although, because you have to think about it slightly differently because the video completion will often happen over a couple of days. But the great thing is, is that we will often run tests, you know, on our opt in page, on our sales page just of, to kind, kind of see what will make a difference. And the thing is, is because we constantly have traffic going through the system, we can find out really quickly what works and what doesn't. One of the problems with live launching, and I hear people say, well, you have to live launch because you have to refine your message. Yeah, but the problem is if you're only live launching once every three months or even once a month, if you make a change, sure, it could improve it or it could take your results. And then you also can't know if it was that change or it was something else. So in the circuit when you constantly traffic going through, you can make little tweaks regularly and see how they improve, you know, and it can be change out the headline or change out the color of the button. And some things it's. That's the thing with guessing, right, Is that you're like, oh, I think this is definitely going to work and it falls flat or it just, you know, doesn't make any changes or you're like, let's try changing the color of this link. And for whatever reason you got, you know, 10% more. But because you have, like I said that the traffic constantly going through, you can make these traffic tweaks and optimize as you go.

That's fantastic. Oh my goodness. Nikki, I just have so many more questions, but be mindful of the time we have here today. If there were something someone was thinking about. Okay. I'm kind of curious about this circuit sales system. What should we be thinking about as we make the decision to step into circuit selling?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, certainly they can go to circuitsalesystem.com free and opt in for our free on demand video training. It's funny, I talk to our students and they're like, the interesting thing about the sales process was I could feel myself being sold to, but it was done so effectively and I really liked it and I wanted to be able to do the same thing. So definitely, you know, dig in and take a look. There will be things that we do differently, but you might not understand how we do it differently, though. So that's the interesting thing, is that once you actually dig into the course and into the program, it's going to make sense to you why we do certain things and why we don't and why it might seem like we're teaching, but it's actually a totally different thing and. But that's the best place to start. Absolutely.

I love this and I will say I have watched this training that's on the other side of that and it's very unique. So definitely pay attention. Definitely watch and identify some of these things that Nikki has mentioned and shared. And you're going to notice right away when you watch this, like, oh, wait, it's a little bit more dynamic there. Yeah, absolutely. It's super fun to check out, so I hope everybody does. Nikki, thank you so much for spending time with us here today.

Thank you so much for having me. It's always so much fun to chat with you.

The best. We'll see you soon.