From Unfocused to Thriving: An Attorney's Journey to Finding Her Place

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Hey.

Amber McHugh here and I am pumped for the conversation we are going to have today with sarah from destination legal.com she's an attorney for coaches and online business owners and she's got a super cool story after being at a law firm for several years. Maybe you can relate to this and a few career jumps. She ended up falling in love with online business and she helps entrepreneurs online get protected from a legal perspective. Wife a traveler, food wine lover and when not at her computer she's with the kids, having wine with friends, flying around the globe and connecting with other online business owners just like she is today with me and you in this conversation here. We cover the gamut here so we did something fun. We just followed the right on time moments and the conversation. We're going to start with a little travel conversation. I'm curious, have you been to the places we're talking about or is one of these your favorite too? And we're going to end the conversation about pricing, client services and AI and what you need to think about from a legal perspective when it comes to AI. So this is going to be fun and it's going to be practical and you're going to get something incredible out of this for your life and your business. So great to hang out with you. Let's get Sarah in here. Sarah from Destination Legal, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

Oh my gosh, I'm so pumped to be hanging out with you. You know, we just very briefly, and we. I promise we saved all the good stuff for the live conversation because we just barely touched on the fact that we both have quite the travel bug.

100%. I feel like we could talk about this forever.

Yeah. I love it. What's your favorite place that you have traveled to?

This is a question that I have gotten a lot, and I cannot pick one. I'm gonna give you three. Is that okay?

Yeah.

So one of my favorite places and I lived there for almost a year is India. I have, like, a love hate relationship with India. I love it so much. It's also one of the hardest places to travel. At least for me, it was Santorini. Greece is definitely top of the list. And then my family, we frequent Aruba. And so the beaches of Aruba are just have like a soft spot in my heart.

Oh, my gosh. I went to Aruba in spring of 2022. I think it was one part Christmas present, one part 20th anniversary present.

Wow.

Oh, my gosh. We stayed at Overwater Bungalows.

Oh, yes. So I've probably been there 12 times. We go there basically every other year. Although it's always family. So maybe my husband and I should go sometime, just the two of us.

Oh, my gosh. It was amazing. It was amazing. So I know you spent time in Africa. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Where in Africa did you visit?

So I have been. I mean, I've been around, so I've been to Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, Uganda. I did an African safari, which is one of my favorite experiences ever. I've also been to Egypt and Tunisia and South Africa. So quite a few places.

I'm drilling in even more. Did you go to Cape Town?

I didn't go to Cape Town. So I was there for work. So I was. We went to Pretoria and Johannesburg. So Cape Town is, like, on my wish list. I feel like if I went there, I would fall in love and just be like, okay, we're moving here.

Exactly. That's why I asked when you shared your favorite list, I'm like, she's got to have Cape Town on.

Yeah.

And because I know you spend time in Africa. We were just talking to friends. We just got back from Morocco.

They were.

They're going to Egypt. They had been to Morocco, and Morocco was, like, more than I expected. I mean, I had pretty great expectations. I'm like, oh, it's Morocco. It's going to be great. But I did. I couldn't think beyond that because I've just been in a busy season. It wasn't really thinking through it. Oh, man. But we got there, loved it. Lisbon is a high on our list, but I think Cape Town still, like, takes our number one spot as a family.

Wow, that's good to know. Yeah. Morocco. We thought about Morocco for our honeymoon and didn't end up doing that. But it's definitely on the list, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good trip. That's a good trip.

I got.

I've got a great travel agent if anybody's looking for one to make that trip happen. You traveled a lot. You have lived abroad. What took you abroad?

So, you know, to back it up a little bit, I did not like being a lawyer. Right. So I started out in Washington, D.C. at a law firm. And really quickly I realized this was not the path for me. I had no desire to be in a corner office. I had no desire to work 70 or 80 hours a week. I had no desire to bill my time and, you know, 15 minute increments. And so after a couple years, I knew I wanted to do something more. And so I actually looked into the Peace Corps and, like, how can I travel? What else can I do? I ended up going back to school for my master's in public health and then eventually ended up working in global health and international health regulations, like, this really small area. And actually, what I did primarily, it's interesting to think about now, I worked on implementation of a treaty called the International Health Regulations, which is all about, like, biosurveillance and biosecurity, but with the idea of helping other countries prepare their early warning detection systems for a pandemic. Right. So this was, you know, a decade before we had ever heard of COVID But that's what we were doing. We were helping ministries of health and small governments kind of make sure that they had the proper testing in place. And what if there is an outbreak? How can we control it? And who do we alert, what's a chain of command, and all that stuff. And so I primarily did that in, you know, Southeast Asia, the Middle east, and Africa. While I love doing that and I love getting to travel, for me, getting to travel for three months out of the year and then spending nine months in a windowless office writing reports that nobody ever read was still not enough for me. So even though I, you know, quote unquote, had my dream job, I wasn't happy. And so that's when I really started looking for my next step. And that's when I found the world of online business, which I didn't even know existed.

Wow. How incredible. So you were working in corporate. Corporate sort of style. And what was, was that. Where were you based when you were doing that?

So I was in D.C. i was actually working at a think tank and then I was at a. But you know, any night I feel like any 9 to 5, it's corporate enough, right? No matter what it is.

Exactly. Yeah. Unless it's like any bitty company, maybe we can go like mom and pop vibes. But yeah, I agree. It's got that feel. And then you go abroad and. So did you come back from that job looking for something else or did you transition right from being overseas working and that dynamic to being in the online business world?

So it was not a smooth transition. I ended up back living with my parents because I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I left my nine to five and I spent two weeks on an island in the Philippines learning how to build an online business from these two dudes who had a podcast. Right. And, you know, I'm still friends with them to this day. They're amazing. They run this whole community of digital nomads. Like, I learned so much from them. And so I left that, like, oh, in two months I'm going to have this amazing online business making like thousands of dollars a month. It didn't quite turn out that way. Right. And actually it was a good three years until I really had found my niche with destination legal and settled in. You know, I, for a little bit, I ran a dropship e commerce store and I was doing, you know, digital marketing for other e commerce stores and living in Chiang Mai, Thailand, and just like, trying to do the digital nomad thing, but it, it was not overnight. And in the meantime, I was still consulting for my previous employer. I was still, like, trying to pay the bills. It wasn't really until 2015, 2016 that I dove all into the legal stuff.

Wow. I'm obsessed with that journey.

Yeah. You know, I fought it for a long time because I didn't like being a lawyer, but the more coaches and online business owners I met, they kept asking me these questions, like, do I need a privacy policy and what about my contract and how do I trademark and all of these questions. And I knew I wanted to help because there really wasn't a. A resource. I certainly didn't want them to have to go to a, you know, old white man law firm and pay thousands of dollars for a contract. And I knew they wouldn't do that anyway. And so that's kind of how, like, the template shop was born out of, you know, wanting to provide this service for this community of business owners and coaches that really needed it.

Oh, my gosh, this is so cool. So you said you were in the Philippines in the digital nomad community. Two awesome dudes in a podcast. I love it. And were there for about three months. You said no.

So I was there for just a couple weeks and a couple weeks and actually started my first online business, which was called the Bootstrap Lawyer. And it was like, all about helping bootstrapping entrepreneurs. But I wasn't really ready yet. I was so new, I didn't really understand digital marketing or what I was doing. And at that time, online legal was very new. It was all, you know, how do we do this? Can we do this? There weren't a lot of examples. So I did that for a little bit and then I kind of backed off and, you know, did some other things. And then, you know, during this time, I was living at home. My parents were like, get a job. I was like, eh. So then I bought a one way ticket to Thailand. I knew some people there. And so I was like, I'm just gonna go be, you know, this is the manifestation, right? I'm go be around the people that are doing what I want to do, you know. And once I got there, I traveled for, you know, a year and a half kind of with this group of digital nomads. And that's where, you know, the business kind of started. And eventually I decided I was done traveling. I wanted to meet my future husband. And it's kind of hard to do that as a digital nomad. I know people do it, but I was having trouble. So I came back to the States and it was good because it allowed me to, yes, meet my husband, but also just focus on one thing, you know, I don't know if you found this. I feel like maybe you guys do more slow travel, but when you're traveling every six weeks, you're always like, what's the next spot? And, you know, you spend so much time on Airbnb and where am I going to live? And, you know, it's hard to put in the hours to build a business when you're doing all of that.

It really is. We've had a couple of seasons where we've had to hop around a lot. And if your mindset's ready, it is doable. But there becomes a point where like, okay, all right. I can remember exactly what was happening when I had my first meltdown. And it was Months in, like. And it was one good meltdown. I'm like, okay, I'm calling Uncle no more on this. Because, yeah, it does get exhausting. One of the things that I really appreciated in that season where we were hopping around every few weeks was being able to just open my laptop. Like, I got really good at. I can work literally anywhere. And people would comment on that. They're like, whoa, you just sat down. You're gonna start working?

I'm like, yeah, I'm good.

They're like, can you hear them? Nope, can't hear a thing. I go in my zone. I'm good. As long as I have a place to sit and the laptop, I can get in the zone. So I got pretty good at that.

Yeah. That's amazing.

Oh, I am just so in awe of this journey and in that time. So you are reflecting what we know to be true when we move down a new path. You know, you've got this calling, you've got this idea hypothesis, this nudge that this is where I need to be going and I need to start to make some shifts in my life. And you said it took a little while to really get grounded in destination legal. Can you tell us what that process was, like, around getting grounded and, like, okay, when you have that feeling of, I think this is working.

Yeah, absolutely. I remember it so clearly because the previous, you know, six months, I had been kind of trying to do legal and also kind of trying to do some business coaching and meld everything together, and it wasn't really working. Like, I was unfocused, and people were coming to me, but they wanted the legal. And there was a point where there was no. There was, like, no money, and I had to ask my parents to help with rent, and my dad was sending me, like, contacts in law firms. I was living in Chicago at the time, and I was, like, brushing up my resume, and I just felt this huge, like, pit in my stomach. This is very fresh because I actually was just interviewed for an article talking about this moment, and I knew that I'm like, there's no way I can go back to a nine to five at this point. Like, no. And so at the time, I was starting to really be in the coaching world. I had thought for a minute that I might want to be a holistic health coach. And I was like, you know, had some business coaches, and I just found this whole new world that I didn't know existed. And once I put myself out there with some new legal offers, I started getting interest. And within a Month. I had like several clients. I had made, you know, a few thousand dollars. And it was almost like the universe was telling me, if you go all in on this, like, this is going to work. And so I did. And then within, you know, six or seven months, I hit my first 10k month. And then it just grew and evolved from there.

Oh, wow, okay. You were getting signs. If you go all in, like, okay, I gotta do this. Am I really gonna commit to this? And you created new offers, so it's interesting. What were your offers previously like?

So it was kind of a, you know, I had thought, do you need a contract? I'll do this. And then, you know, we can talk about some business strategy. And I was doing some coaching and then I came up with this offer called let's get legal, which doesn't exist anymore. And it's so funny, like what I charged for it then and what I would charge for it now, but it was basically like a starter bundle for a new coach. So it included their one on one contract and then everything they would need for their website. And I sold it for $1300. And, you know, that was the first, you know, real destination legal offer. And then from there the template shop was born. So once I really knew did a lot of these contracts, I was like, I can sell these as templates more affordable for, you know, coaches and service providers and health coaches. And, you know, since then we've grown over 30 templates depending on what the businesses need. I didn't love being a lawyer to this day, don't love sitting around talking about privacy policies. So what I really had to do was change my mindset around it. And my first coach really helped me with this because it was like, I also had real guilt around charging because I was like, this is so easy for me. I can draft a contract and. But she was like, but they can't, right? And you went to law school and paid, you know, six figures for this. And so I now love it because I know what legally protecting your business does for these women and these coaches that I'm helping and so helping them protect their passion. One of my trademarks to this day is protect your passion. Like helping them grow and get legally protected, feel more empowered and confident so that they can spread their gifts. Like, that's what excites me. Right? It's not like the nitty gritty of terms and conditions. It's what they do for my people.

Oh my gosh, this is so fascinating. I love hearing the journeys that we walk down in this Incredible life. And so often it is not a clear path that's laid out. It unfolds unexpectedly and nudges and prompts from your parents saying, I read it's time to get a job, babe.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh, I love this. So you now have 30 templates, and what would you say is like your product mix? Do you sell primarily templates or do you also do a lot of strategic one on one legal work?

So I don't do a ton of. Of one on one on purpose because I don't want to be trading dollars for hours. I really. Time freedom is really important to me. But I do offer a full service trademark package. So those are kind of the two main revenue streams we have. We have the digital templates, which are, you know, done for you, downloadable, you customize it. And then the trademark package, which is templates or do it yourself. The trademark package is done for you. It's full service. We handle everything from start to finish. And I really love that because trademarks are like brand assets that your business owns. Right. And it's so powerful to be able to say, I own my brand, I own my program name. Nobody else in my industry can use it. And so at one point I was going through, I don't know, a business crisis where I felt like I had to focus on one of these because they are very different, they have different avatars. But I have since let that go because I enjoy both of them and that's fine right now. They feed into each other. One is definitely a more scalable business. And, you know, if at some point I decide I don't want to keep doing trademarks, I don't have to. Right? Nothing is forever. But for the moment, I took the pressure off of myself and just am doing it all. I'm not doing it all. I have a paralegal and a team.

But, you know, but take the pressure off. There's so much good stuff here. So oftentimes, and I've walked that path before, and I've walked that path with clients and colleagues who are like, oh, should I focus? Am I okay? And I think there's. It's a balancing act in any number of things can work. I tend to like to focus, but for a period of time, like, I run multiple businesses and I know that I could not have gotten two businesses off the ground at the same exact time and build like. And ran that in parallel. But what I can do is build one, okay, then I can build the next one. Then we'll, you know, maybe we'll build the next one, or maybe we'll adjust strategy on those, or. And then things start to layer. But did you start you started with shops and then added on trademarks or other way?

Yeah. No, I started with the contracts and the templates and then eventually added on the trademarks. I mean, you know, seven or eight months later, it just, it wasn't. But I felt like that was kind of growing. And then trademarks were something that I wanted to be able to offer. People came to me for a while, and I just, at that point, didn't have the capacity. And finally I was like, okay, like, yes, let's do it.

As I think about your journey and I think about the people who listen to this podcast, it is 100% in their arm's reach that they can do the next thing in the.