Beyond Self Made: Michael Greenwalt on The Power of Genuine Human Connection in Modern Leadership

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As crazy as life can be and as many things as I'm involved in, if you narrow it down, you maybe take a step back and you look at the big picture and then you say, what's the next step? That's all that matters. You don't have to worry about what 5 years looks like or 10 years looks like. What is the next step? I know I'm on the path. How can I keep it simple and just focus on this?

Step into the world of success with your brand amplified. The ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. I'm excited to have Michael Greenwald on the show. Michael, you have your book behind you, Not Self-Made. I also have a copy right here, so I'm showing it for anybody who is watching this episode so they can see the COVID because we will be talking about what it means, why you wrote the book, but we're also going to talk a lot about our good friend, Tim Kuglin, who introduced us and we're both advisors to his company and have used some of that process when you were kind of testing some things out. So I'm really excited to dive into everything because there's going to be a lot of good stuff here, but I want to start with, of course, before getting into the Connect Framework and everything, let's start with your story. Your origin story is pretty interesting. Your family spent nearly a year living in a 40-square-foot pop-up trailer. So, can you take me back to that time and how it shaped who you are? What did you believe was possible and how did that frame you? How did that create the man we see before us?

Yeah, so it was an interesting time in my life. I was young. We lived in Phoenix. When I was in kindergarten and my dad got an opportunity to come up to Flagstaff for a better job. And so we came up here, a family of 5 at the time, but then we had one on the way and, or my mom did, and we had nowhere to stay. So we, somebody lent us a pop-up trailer and we were able to kind of camp out and it took about a year to find, find somewhere to live, an apartment, but What was really interesting and what I took and reflect back on was that my parents never made us feel like we were in poverty and that we were barely making it. It was fun. It was like an extended camping adventure. And I think that just really set it into my brain that no matter what your circumstances are, you should just try to go with it and have a good time. Recognize the beauty around you. I mean, we had so much fun just throwing rocks in the forest. So that was kind of the beginning. And so fast forward a bit, I wasn't a great student in high school, but I had a teacher, Mr. Garlante, who was my Spanish teacher. And he was just a great person, great human being who recognized something in me or recognized that I had no direction. And he would go out with the Forest Service as a wildland firefighter in the summers, and then he would teach during the normal school year. and he planted a seed and he said, hey, I think you might be a good firefighter. And I didn't really think that was possible with my trajectory and my path. And so I applied for the Forest Service and I didn't get a callback from the Forest Service. But by that time I was telling everybody, I wanna be a firefighter. I wanna be a firefighter. And that kind of parlayed into a buddy of mine who had joined the military. His dad was a recruiter for the Army National Guard. and he said, we have firefighters and you can take a test. If you pass, we can get you in and get you trained up to be a firefighter. And so I joined the National Guard and I did that for about 6 years and I left as a sergeant and assistant fire chief. But at the same time, I had finally landed my dream job with the city of Flagstaff as a firefighter. And yeah, so I did that for about 16 years before I got a promotion to battalion chief for Highlands Fire District south of Flagstaff, and I was there for about 4 years and numerous life happened, including my, my son being at a very impressionable age, and I was missing a lot of birthdays, holidays, weekends, and there were, there were all these ambitions that were brewing. And so, I decided it was time to retire.

[Speaker:ANICA JACKSON] Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense. I mean, Miss, I know that a large part of who you are is family and The story of your early days really reflects that because that was the example you were given. It didn't matter how much you had or didn't have, but family was important and you could have fun no matter what, as you said. And I see a lot of this when reading through a lot of the things about you today and with your son and how involved and invested you are in your local community.

Well, thank you. I, I think it's just so important. I don't have all the answers. To anything, but I know somebody around me will. And I think between family or friends or building new relationships, that's really in reflection. That's why I wrote the book. It was a reflection of my life and lessons learned. And then how can I put that into a framework or a repeatable process? Because up to that point, it had happened kind of organically. And I was feeling a little stuck, to be honest, because I had retired. I became a commercial banker for a couple of years. And although I really liked it and I learned a lot about business, I still felt like I needed to make a change and I had a lot of other ambitions. I just wanted to live. And so again, it was kind of reaching out, putting this into purpose and asking people, you know, what their strengths are and collaborating with them and coming up with ideas. And now, as I'm sure we'll talk about, I'm involved in maybe too much.

The other thing that strikes me is, like with most things, even if we don't realize it, it takes that one person to plant the seed, right?

Absolutely.

And for you, that journey didn't turn out exactly as you wanted, but perhaps it turned out much better because you had your military career. You, then you rose, like you said, from firefighter, captain, battalion chief. So, that shows that you had this innate leadership that you didn't realize when you were that young person who was kind of like, I don't know what I wanna do next. You know, I'm, I'm doing okay, but but you didn't necessarily have that ambition. And that also shows us that ambition doesn't have to be part of it. Any of us can be leaders, and many of us have those skills inside of us, and they just need to be pulled out. We need a little more training. And I believe that's really what happened to you because now, I mean, looking at your career now, right, I don't know that anybody would've thought, oh, this is a person who used to be in the military and a firefighter. And because You are now a co-founder and interim CEO of an AI company. I mean, so talk to us a little bit about those moments that moved you from military to working for your local community, to working at a commercial bank. I mean, being a jiu-jitsu instructor, you know, account manager, advisor to other AI companies, and founding your own company.

It's such an interesting journey. I really think it's curiosity. I'm curious about people and I like to start talking to them. And naturally, I feel like it's naturally where you'll— there'll be a spark, there'll be an idea, and then we say, let's do it. You know, Captain— well, let's go back. Military was sparked by a teacher and then it was picked up by a friend and a mentor. Who got me into the military. And then it was really similar process to get hired for my dream job with the city of Flagstaff. My fire chief, who was also the platoon sergeant in the military, he was also a Flagstaff firefighter. And so, he advocated for me. He was doing the behind-the-scenes talks to the chiefs and everything. And I had a college instructor and that just organically by being curious, by really trying to learn. I think maybe I stood out in his class a little bit while he happened to be the battalion chief in charge of training. And so, kind of collaboratively— by myself, I don't think I would've been able to get the job at least as early as I did. It would've been more of a grind. And I really think with the power of relationships, that helped me get the job as firefighter. And then, when I tested for captain, it was a rally of people around me to help me and prepare me and get me ready for the test and what leadership really looks like, not just testing for the test, but for the position, which I think is really important. And then, you know, taking those lessons and doing the same thing, copy, paste, repeat for battalion chief. And, you know, I thought, I thought I'd probably never have a job interview again. And then I did. And again, that was, that was just a happenstance conversation. With a great person who happened to be the Arizona president for a regional bank. And we were talking about firefighting and his son and, and by the end of that conversation, he said, if you ever want a job in banking, then let me know. And we had had some ideas for startups around that time, but they weren't really moving yet. And I thought, what better way to learn business than from being a commercial banker? So, Couple interviews later, and ironically, I think they hired me because of my relationships in the city and being, being where I was for a long time. So I did that for a couple years and then same thing with everything that we're doing now. I mean, the AI company Leviathan AI, that was really a core group of people who all have very unique strengths and talents and there's a lot of trust there, a lot of community there. And I am not a coder. I don't know AI very well. I mean, I'm, I'm learning it quite a bit over the last couple of years, but when I was asked to kind of stand up the company, it was, what are you, why me? And they said, well, because you can build good teams and you can kind of keep us all cohesive and together. We'll just build and run and, and we'll do what we do. You do what you do and it'll be a good company. And it's been incredible. It's been an incredible journey.

And it hasn't been around that long. So, can you talk to us about that company? Because I, I think one of the more interesting things about your story also is a lot of people who become entrepreneurs, they kind of know they're entrepreneurs, right? Or they become entrepreneurs because that's the option available for them at the time. But you went through a series of jobs that are very demanding, can be life-threatening, can be very serious, learned all these leadership skills, used those relationships, and relationships really are everything, right? Especially when you have good relationships like you did.

Exactly.

And it sounds like you did have some inkling that you wanted to be an entrepreneur next because you said you had some ideas floating around, but they hadn't quite gelled. So, that's why you went into commercial banking. So, can you talk to us about that realization and that journey and then tell us a little bit more about what's going on now with Leviathan?

Yeah, so I've had probably 1,000 ideas over the years, and I don't know if, if that was I had an entrepreneurial spirit, but I was afraid to take action, or maybe it was a time thing. I reflect back and I, I say, well, I didn't have time. And then I look back and I say, oh, I had plenty of time to do that. And then, you know, it was a series of events, like I said, that kind of made me want to retire. And at that same time, we had an idea, a great friend, actually the friend that joined the military before me and his dad was the recruiter. We're still great friends and he is an incredible mind genius. And he started building a SaaS product and it got to the point where he was ready to launch. I was ready to come on as director of account management. And then he had to shift because something came to market literally like a month before we did. And it was, it was honestly kind of better than what we were building. And so he had to shift and I got inspired by him because he had a very good job for a very well-known large bank. And he was a director of cybersecurity, I believe. And so he really knew what it took on the coding side and what enterprise-level clients were missing. And so he just kind of parlayed that into, I'm going to build the next product. And he locked himself in a room for about a year and started building what's called Ionite. And Ionite is— we could kind of take a deep dive on that, but we— I know we have a limited time, but it's a very unique product that's that's actually doing a soft launch right now. And at the same time, we were talking about AI and how that's kind of the next wave, that's the future, and it's hard to control. It's hard to know what can be safe for business. And so we started talking about it, and he's— he actually had the idea. He came up with the name, and he came up with the way it would work. And he said, what is missing is a Vibe coding platform that actually builds applications that are safe into your environment, because there's Vibe coding platforms that build applications, but then they're localhost:3000. And then if you want anybody else to use it, then they have to get your password and use your computer and it's just not safe. And so kind of with that mentality, we started recruiting a team and it's sweat equity. And we just said, you know, you're good at this, you're good at that. Here's the equity play. Let's put it all together. And so everybody started getting to work. And what's unique about Leviathan is it builds the application through normal business language. So it's a VIBE coding platform, but it actually connects and reaches out to your security system. So your multifactor authentication, your single sign-on, It builds all of that into the application so it can actually be hosted on your platform. And yeah, so we're rolling along. We're about 90% built out. We have a little bit of UI on the front end to clean up, to just make it prettier, but it works very well. And so we're looking to start taking beta users pretty soon here.

Well, sign me up.

Awesome. Yeah, I'd love to have you. I'd love to get your feedback.

And for those who are listening who might be interested, reach— you're going to be able to reach out to Michael through this podcast. We'll have all of his information. But we still have a lot to cover before we get there. So, talk about your story and the arc of it, and realizing that this is something that could probably help other people.

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I sold my car on Carvana last night.

Well, that's cool.

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

So what's the problem?

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

Maybe there's no catch.

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

Wow, you need to relax.

I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?

I think it's laminate.

Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough.

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Yeah. It's so, I mean, everything that I've done in my life has been based on saying yes to opportunities. And sometimes like you, I've gotten into opportunities where I'm like, this is a good profession, but it's not the right one for me. This is a great company, but this isn't my exact fit. And then something else opens up and another relationship forms, or somebody who you knew from the past who was maybe a passing acquaintance becomes a mentor. So, I love the fact that you really have leaned into that and leaned into who you are authentically, not trying to be somebody else, not trying to put on other airs, realizing the skills that you have, and then other people's seen you and seen those skills that you have that you might not have even realized that you possess. That younger you probably never realized that you would be capable of being co-founder and CEO of a tech company, right? So—

Me from 2 years ago didn't think that that would be.

So, I would love to hear a little bit more about your Connect Framework and, you know, what it really means to you, what people can learn from it?

As I was writing, and like I said, I was reflecting on these lessons, I said, what, what are the common themes here that I can put into a quick— it's not a synonym— a quick framework. So, connect. I realized that a lot of my journey and a lot of my opportunity came from just being curious about people. And so C is for curiosity first, and then O is offer value. And I realized again, through my own journey, that a lot of times with me offering first with no expectation in return, and that was something I learned from another family who kind of took me in at about age 12 when there was a lot of turmoil in my own life at the time, but they took me in, they gave me a job, they gave me stability, and I just realized how much value it gave me, but also how much value it gave them by just giving and offering value. And so I started applying that in my own life and I try to genuinely offer value to others first with no expectation and then the universe or God or whatever, it comes back to you tenfold. And so that's the O, the first N is no judgment. You know, I think we live in a world that we can beat each other up for anything. We can nitpick and find something we don't like about somebody. Well, what if we look at the other side? What if we look at rather than what we don't like about that person or how we don't connect, how do we connect? And when you really lean into that thought and you don't really judge them over their politics or their religion or any big, I say, what school your kid goes to, you know, why, why are we judging? Rather than judge, let's lean into the similarities of each other, what we both believe in and what we both think is right at our community level. And then we can build community. So no judgment. The second N is nurture relationships. And that's just simply recognizing that, yeah, we might not text every day. We might not call each other every day, but every 6 months or so, let's reach out to each other. Let's just check in. And a lot of times those check-ins are where some new ideas sparked because it's been a little while and, oh, you're doing that while I'm doing this, let's collaborate. So no judgment. Engage authentically is the E. And like you said, authentic self. I, for so long, I had a fear of judgment. I was afraid to be judged in the public eye or from friends or family or whoever it is. And just kind of realizing that it doesn't matter. I am who I am and those that love me are going to love me and those that don't, it's okay. So just engage authentically. Don't try to put up on a front that somebody you're not because people see right through that. We're on to C, create win-wins. So I think that one is really important in the sense that so many of us have ideas. but we might not have the cash flow to make that happen. And I'll tell you, of all the things I'm involved in, the one thing I spent the most money on is the book. It's not the AI company, which is crazy because we put a ton of work into it and yet we haven't spent very much money in that product because we're creating win-wins. We have people who believe in what they're building, what they're doing, very talented. And they're standing it up. And even my podcast, my co-host, we don't have hardly any money invested into it, but we're building something for others. So yeah, create win-wins with those relationships. And then finally, take action. Because if you don't take action, somebody else will. And that awesome idea you had, you're going to see the commercial on TV and it's making $100 million a year and you're going, I had that idea. Why didn't I take action?

Absolutely. That happens every day, right? So, a lot of networking advice based on the world we live in is built for extroverts in conference rooms, right? You call your approach blue collar. So, I think we're seeing a lot of that. I would say that's really not necessarily blue collar, but it's being humble. And I think that has a lot to do with the stories you're telling us on this show right now, what you've written in the book, right? How you've lived your life. So what do you think it means in practice? How does it different from what people picture when they hear about networking and, you know, that you have to just completely put yourself out there? And I mean, yes, we wanna show up with confidence, but I've realized that I'm really more of an introvert or an omnivert that's been masking as an extrovert for so much of my life. It's so nice to tear that mask off, but it's, you know, for me, it's those quiet moments, but I want to hear your perspective on your networking philosophy and the blue-collar, quote, quote, approach.

Yeah, you know, I think it's just we're all different, but recognizing those differences is important and also recognizing that people are just people.

Yeah.

I'm not trying to minimize that they're just people, but the high-level CEO or the celebrity they're a person too. And if you're not trying to project an energy you don't have and you're just yourself and you just are willing to have a conversation, then it's amazing the friendships that you can create and the, the collaboration that can come from that when it becomes business. Or, you know, sometimes it's— I was in an event, AI4, where you were, and our company was not ready to talk to venture capitalists. And yet I happened to be talking to one of the venture capitalists while there was a woman who was building an amazing product that I had met 5 minutes earlier. And I know she was dying to talk to somebody, but she was, she was an introvert and she, she was great once you were, once you broke the ice and you started talking to her, but she was very afraid to get in line to see this, this venture capitalist. And I said, I could tell you about what I'm building, but instead, maybe we exchange a little bit of information. You really need to talk to her. Wow. And coming back, you know, seeing her later in the conference, she said, yeah, we exchanged information and, and they're interested in what I'm building. And, and I think, not that that was me, you know, that did it for her. She had every tool in the toolbox other than that willingness to just talk to somebody. So maybe if you're extroverted, be willing to talk to the introvert in the room, the one quiet person in the corner that is probably so capable of so many things, but is afraid to put themselves out there. Well, why not be the in-between? Why not create value for people? So there's also a number within the book. I do have a little section for introverted people on how you might approach a networking event. That might help you. Showing up early is one thing, you know, instead of that big group of people. Maybe if you're introverted, maybe you show up a little early and it's a smaller group and you just commit to talking to one person. And that one person might be like me, who's willing to talk to everybody. And then you get introduced to people that way.

Nice.

You know?

Yeah, we all need a you in our corner. One thing also that I really love about your book is that you have an action plan. So it's not just, I mean, you're sharing stories and examples, but you are having people really put together their next 90-day plan of how they're going to approach their next goal, right? The next big thing. And I think that so many times we read books and we're like, this is great advice, but then there's nothing after. So are you, I mean, obviously you now have a podcast too, which I wanna talk more about, But are you thinking about turning this— and I know it's only been a few months as well— but into a course, into workshops that you can teach, into other tools and resources? Have you been hearing that from people?

From premieres April 19th on MGM+. In a small, inescapable town, understanding the monsters may be the only way out. Desperate hope may lead residents toward even darker truths. I think they're doing it to make us afraid.

Well, then it worked.

Something ancient is feeding off of their suffering, and it won't stop. Survival will demand impossible choices. From season 4 premieres April 19th on MGM+.

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I've been hearing it a bit and I actually did write a workbook that goes along with it. That's a more robust plan than what's within the book. And I just offered that for free on my website, which is being rebuilt. So it's not actually out yet, but within the next couple of weeks, that'll be rebuilt.

By the time you're hearing this episode.

Oh, now I'm on the spot. Yes. I will try to get that done by then. But we're going to release that for free. And then, you know, as far as workshops and trainings, you know, I spoke at a local high school at their entrepreneurs group just a couple of days ago, and I've spoken at the university, and I recently got reached out to by a professional organization that is looking for some leadership training. And so I'm kind of like you, just say yes to anything. If, if I can offer value, if I can help them out, then I'm happy to get in and do a workshop. 24 years in the fire service and, and some of those were leading teams and training, and I call myself a leadership nerd. So I developed a leadership program for upcoming captains and kind of applying those same principles into business. I think it's a very smooth transition, even though it sounds kind of strange to be military or fire and then apply that to business. But leadership is just people and knowing your people really. And so, teaching people, giving them the tools on how to really understand their people to bring the most out of them. And yeah, I'm willing to do that. I don't know about any official courses or masterminds or anything. I need to see a couple of other projects through first before I really do that. I'm sorry, say that again.

Oh, I just, as we all need to. Talk about the start of your podcast because you did, yeah, your book. We talk, I know we've had conversations before. We both, I didn't actually meet Tim at AI4, but he contacted me after, I think just, and we've both been working on his project and you have a number of other projects that you're working on. You have your company getting book sales and like making sure people know about it. And then you have become a recent podcaster. So talk to us about that journey.

Well, that idea happened probably 10 years ago. And I had different ideas on maybe it's a leadership podcast, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, but I never took action. And I had a fear of the back end because the production, the video— Is the audio right? Is the audio right? Yeah, there's a lot to it. And so I never really took action. And then kind of fast forwarding to the book and then some speaking opportunities, And really just recognizing that there are so many good people around us that have been through the struggle. They've been in the trenches and now maybe they're a CEO or a business owner and everybody sees them on this other pedestal. But let's talk about the journey to get there because there's a lot of people stuck in that journey right now where they feel like there's not a tomorrow or they feel like something good can't happen to them. Well, a lot of the people I interview, which I think is just really humanity, all of us have had those moments and to recognize and have people be authentic and share those, those hard times to then show and look at where I'm at now. And, you know, so started talking about that. I was, I was very thankful to talk to you and I got on one of your trainings and learned a lot about podcasting in general and the dos and don'ts. And then I started collaborating. I reached out to a person who had done the videography for my speech, my first speech, and she was all in and she said, I'll do the backend work, you do the frontend work. And so we just started getting guests together and I love it. I love being able to share those journeys and give people a voice And also hopefully inspire others that if you're stuck, just don't quit today, quit tomorrow. You know, keep on pushing along, 0.1% better every day, and things are going to change.

Well, talk to us a little bit about, I mean, I'll share the name. What are some of the goals with the podcast? Do you see it as another product that you can not only inspire people with, but that you can monetize in the future? I think we all have these different goals for all of our areas of life. So I'd love to hear yours.

Yeah. So the podcast name is Beyond Self-Made and it's a mix. I, of course, I would, I would love to monetize something because right now we're still grinding and everything and not monetizing. But I also am confident that when you put it out there and you put in good work, then eventually it will monetize. And so if we can create enough sparks in people's minds and hearts and we get enough listeners, then maybe it will monetize. My goal is not to pay myself first, but definitely my videographer because she is just a heart of gold and I want to recognize her. And so, you know, if we can monetize it, great. If we can inspire just one person, that's incredible. And she said something that was so interesting to me because I told her how bad I feel that I'm taking her Sunday to come and interview people in my house and She said, Michael, you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe what I would give to be able to hear my grandfather speak the way that these people are speaking. And she said, we might not have any listeners for 10 years or 20 years, but this is going to live on the internet and someone at some time, maybe in that family line is going to get to hear their great-grandfather speak. And it really inspired me to the point of. That's what matters. It's incredible to just kind of come at it with that angle where if we can inspire someone, then everything's worth it. And so, yeah, that's kind of the point of the podcast. And, and also, you know, just a little bit selfish. The selfish side is, is I do need to get the message out there a little bit more in order to hopefully recognize what Tim and the RQ Lab is doing, the The bigger my brand gets, the more I can highlight really good people doing great work. Same with Leviathan and, and any of my guests, or I want to elevate the others. I think all ships rise together.

100%. Wow. Do you think AI is your final chapter? Like, is that what you think you're going to be doing Leviathan for the rest of your career? Do you have, you know, are some of those other 1,000 ideas from the past poking around? Looking around saying, I'm next? Yes.

I don't know which one would be next. I'm currently of this mentality to just lean into life. And it is so fulfilling. Someone that I was talking to a few, a couple of months ago said, happiness is interior fulfillment, but true fulfillment is being able to give that to others and seeing them become happier. And that's kind of the, that's the more passionate goal. I really love what we're doing with AI, and I think that we're gonna be able to help a lot of businesses with Leviathan. We're going to be able to hopefully get the RQ Lab more exposure because the governance and the relational AI that Tim is building is incredible, and my heart's in that. And so hopefully being on board as long as I need to, to see those through, not only for monetization for myself, but more importantly, my teams and Tim's public benefit company that, I mean, hopefully if we can get this in front of the right people and show that there is true governance and that AI is a partner, then we're not risking ourselves later with all of the unknowns. So my heart's very involved in that. And then the rest of it is just all about people. I want to, whatever I can do to build community, keep us from, or hopefully inspire others to be a little less judgmental, to be a little bit more welcoming of others and realizing that we can all grow together. You know, there doesn't have to be one winner. We can all win.

Yeah, man. I mean, Everything you're saying is so me. So I'm just like, this is one of those interviews where I'm like, yep, I have no points that I disagree on at all. We are so cut from the same cloth, and I just really appreciate that. I appreciate your smile, your kindness, your whole energy and aura that you're bringing to this conversation that I, I also know that you bring to everything that you do.

Well, thank you. I'm a very emotional guy and my wife likes to joke at me because she says, you're the kind of guy that says, oh, stop it. Don't give me a compliment. Okay. Give me another one. I agree. I love your energy. I was immediately just drawn in before I even met you because—

Oh, thank you.

Because of Tim and the trust that I have for him. And he says, Anika is an amazing human and you are going to love her. And that's enough for me.

Well, he put together a group of people that's very special. So.

Agreed. Agreed. He is a one-of-a-kind intelligence and also very relational. So.

Yes. Well, we will have many things linked in the show notes so that people know where to buy your book, how to reach out to you via your website, your LinkedIn. Are there any— you already, you just gave us a good quote without me even having to prompt you, but are there any final words of wisdom that you haven't shared or that you want to emphasize?

You know, the one that comes to mind that I tell myself every day, because my father passed away in 2020 and one of the last things he said was, keep it simple. And as crazy as life can be and as many things as I'm involved in, if you narrow it down, you maybe take a step back and you look at the big picture and then you say, what's the next step? That's all that matters. You don't have to worry about what 5 years looks like or 10 years looks like. What is the next step? I know I'm on the path. How can I keep it simple and just focus on this? And then it's amazing what happens to your life. And so I've been keeping it simple for 6 years and hope to continue doing the same and inspire others. Amazing.

Thank you so much. This is one of those conversations where I'm like, yay. Rest of my day is going to be amazing.

Likewise. I love it. I'm so honored to be on. I'm so thankful for you having me. And everybody, listen to what Anika Jackson Jackson says. She is a genuine, awesome person.

Well, I am looking forward to asking everybody to dive into your book, right? I didn't even talk about— I mean, and it does talk about From Poverty to Published: A Blue Collar Approach to Professional Networking. We covered all of that title, but the subtitle of Not Self-Made, and then of course your podcast. I'm just really grateful for us knowing each other. I'm grateful to everybody who's listening to this episode or who's watching it. Coming back as often as you do, hearing comments from people, getting reviews, people reaching out to let me know what episode has really impacted them, it really touches my heart and it just makes me more inspired to continue down this path. So thank you all and please listen to another episode, share what Michael talked about today and everything that he has to offer with your friends. We love it when people recommend the podcast and our guests as well. And I will see you all again in another couple days with another amazing guest to share their story, their journey, and some inspiration for you. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Amplified, don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.