Creative Resilience: Stewart Cohen on Visual Identity and Apprenticeship Advantage

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Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. Well, there's, it's not the dest— it's the journey. It's the journey. It's not the destination. Cause really there is no destination. Like I think about, like, you know, no, it's the journey. It's the everyday and it's the attitude and the willingness to learn that is really gonna make you survive and thrive.

Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. Stuart Cohen, you are really my perfect guest because you're a working creative and you're also a serious business person. And those, I feel like, tend to be some of my favorite conversations to have. So first and foremost, thank you so much for being on Your Brand Amplified.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. And actually, that's putting me in a pretty good place because I, it's not the norm.

It's not the norm, but I do think people who are creatives, you know, sometimes they don't have the business sense, but those who have both just really hit it outta the park like yourself. I mean, you're the owner of Stuart Cohn Pictures. You've captured compelling visual stories for Fortune 500 brands, ad agencies, editorial clients. You lead Superstock, it's a visual licensing company. So you bring a lot of depth and experience, and this is particularly interesting because I also teach digital marketing and digital media at the university level. So we are always talking about, particularly in a class I'm teaching right now, digital content direction, how much is professional, how much is user-generated, and where does AI intersect with both of those? So we may have to dive a little bit into that, but before we do, I really wanna hear more about how you chose your line of work. What made you excited about what you do every day and how you built this identity as a go-to person.

Well, that's a lot all piled in one question. It is. I'm going to start at the end. I'm going to start at the end. What you're teaching and what's happening today is changing everything. So when we rewind back, it was a simpler time. I loved when I got into this. I got into it because I wanted to travel, meet people, see exotic things, and then take great pictures. So I started out just doing stills before we started doing, uh, live action as well. And it did feed me to do that. It did allow me, it, it gave me access to the world and to people that I never thought I'd meet. And it was just fantastic. It's fascinating. And out on the road a lot, which was fun. And in, in terms of running a business, of course, that became either you take care of your your business part or you're not going to be around the next day. And I just kind of tended to like it as well. I enjoyed managing the day-to-day, even though I brought on staff really early on in my career. And I also took money off the table and invested a lot early on. So, which took some of the burn off, you know, like what some creatives run into mid-career, like when you get into a 2008, say for instance, like, you know, like a downturn, there are downturns. So it's just been a, it's just been a journey. It's been a journey of day to day, but the truth is I still wake up every day and I love it. I wake up at the crack of dawn and I, I'm like kind of roaring to go. And, you know, I interrupt, I listened to something on one of your podcasts actually last night about, it said, and I forget who it was and I forget what you guys were talking about, but it was something about You need to take the pulse of how people, your employees feel on Sunday night to see if you're doing a good job. And Sunday night, Monday morning, I'm good. I'm ready to go. So anyway, that's all I was going to say.

Thank you for tying in a previous episode. I have to love that. But also that speaks a lot about what you do, the fact that you have this love for it, because so many times I do talk to people on this podcast and just in the normal course of life. And coaching and other things that I do who have reached those points when they're not happy with what they're doing and they don't feel that same passion as they used to, perhaps because some of these other things that they have to do. So the fact that you're saying this is a testament to what you've built and how you built it up.

Right.

And also, or maybe it's just dumb.

No.

Because that's just, I haven't evolved, but I have. And the thing is, I think the projects have evolved. The work has evolved. The industry has evolved. Like radically and like over the years. And it still brings me joy, even though I do look at the media landscape today. And there are moments when I wonder, where is it going? You know, yesterday, for instance, we actually bid our first 100% AI-produced TV spot, which these people are very excited about. And I'm a little ambivalent. As I said, I like to get out and shoot, you know, but it's where the industry's going.

Yeah, that's for sure. I still wanna talk a little bit about, I mean, first of all, the way that you came into the world, because that seems very appropriate for you having this love of life and creativity. You were literally born in an elevator. You had an architect father, an actress mom, so that shapes the way, whether you knew or not when you're born, the way that you see the world. So when did you realize that seeing things differently was your superpower and could drive a business and a career?

Oh boy. It was way downstream. I mean, put it this way, sophomore year in college, my teacher, I was taking some electives, some photography electives. He said, you'll do great at whatever you do in life, but you shouldn't do this. You're not very good.

What? Oh no.

But yeah. And it, I mean, I was crushed. I was crushed. I went home for Thanksgiving and I was truly crushed. But once I got past being crushed, it was just like, if it's the last thing I can do, I'm going to succeed. And I will make that person eat their words and we're still friends, but maybe it was the kick in the pants, you know, that I needed.

Yeah. So what was that like? Deciding to take that step and start getting paid for the work that you were doing?

Well, I mean, the way I came up, and I still think, and I still have people do this, it was kind of more in the day of the apprentice.

Mm.

Yeah. Um, apprenticeship. And like, we still have guys that come on, like, that are my first assistants and stuff like that. And they say when they're leaving the same thing that I said, that you learn more like I was a right-hand man to like Helmut Newton, who is a famous photographer. And what you learn there, it's, it's, there's no textbook. There's no textbook. And I worked for a couple of really great advertising guys. And then I got to work with Helmut and exactly, there's no textbook. And it showed you, of course, how different people approach things, how different people, not only photographically, but how they live their lives. And I think that was the bigger learning curve is seeing how different people live their lives and how they manage their lives and how, and the lifestyle that it is or could be. And, and then you just take a leap of faith. And I had, I known the leap of faith, like before I took it, I may have stayed working for them longer.

Really?

Because, you know, you go from like, well, you go from like, Flying, you know, all over the world, staying in great hotels, and all of a sudden it's you knocking on a door and somebody says, I have $100. Or, you know, like, I mean, you know, you're starting at the ground up, but it was great. It was good like that.

Well, and that is a tension, I think, uh, particularly for creative entrepreneurs and business owners. You want to stay true to your art and your creativity, but you also have to make money. So there's that fine line, that, that juxtaposition that you have to walk.

That's true. And I do think today, I mean, granted, the tools that are available today are, I mean, I can't even compare to what we had back then. Never mind, you know, the, your chatbots, but just the internet, like the, everything visually that's ever been created is at your fingertips. You know, we used to go to magazine, you know, stores with magazines and go through magazines. I used to love like looking at, say, at a French Vogue. And even though I didn't do fashion, just you know, to see what was going on. So I think everybody has it at their fingertips today, and people don't feel like they need the ramp-up time, like the apprenticeships or the working for somebody that used to be kind of required, at least. I mean, most people did that. Any— look, even in finance, I mean, you see these great financiers that work under the, you know, if you were Jamie Dimon's right-hand man, you're going to learn a lot. It's the same thing. So to work under the guide of somebody who's very successful really helps any, in any, I think in any field.

Yeah, absolutely. You talked about how everything's at the tip of our fingertips, but that doesn't give you a point of view necessarily.

No, it doesn't. And it, it's not guaranteed that you can succeed just because you have that information.

Yeah.

And to digress, I actually went last night to a student portfolio show, SMU, which is here in Dallas. And there was some insanely great work, like really, really fantastic work. And I was looking at the work and I'm, uh, I'm thinking to myself, well, I hope these students could find jobs that could feed them because they're so creative. You know, the work already is coming out and it's, such a high level today because, you know, the tools are easier to come by. So yeah, really, so it's a really nice testament to, I think, the creative visions that are coming outta school.

My daughter is in photography, she's in high school, senior year, and everything she shoots is on her phone. And I know, I mean, you know, phones are cameras, they have a lot to offer now. So the part I do see of the creativity is still, she doesn't have to learn how to develop film. My dad was an amateur photographer, right? So he had the whole room and the whole setup. And I mean, I think we have a million and one slides from everything he did, but my daughter won't get to experience all of that. And seeing your work come to life in that way, the creativity.

Yeah, there's something about it.

There is. The creativity from her has to just come from, the angle she uses, the depth perception perhaps from this one device. But I think there is a lot missing, as you alluded to, when you don't go through this other process.

Right. Yeah, and I mean, the phones are amazing. There's no question. I mean, I think you're a little, and you could tell her this, that you're a little limited on your post-production possibilities using phones. But I mean, right out of the bag, the phones are, I mean, who knew? I mean, these are better than, you know, the cameras, the first digital cameras by a long shot, like that we were using professionally, like in 2007 or something. I mean, they're kind of amazing. I mean, and I thought about that. I was in Europe a couple of weeks, like for the Olympics, and I saw all these people, like I had a big camera and I see all these people on phones and I'm thinking, what happens when Joe Amateur, or basically not even amateurs, everybody who has a phone. Their tool is now as good as your tool. So when I was starting out, of course, there was a, a barrier of entry. Like you said, you had to know how to develop the film, you had to know how to focus, you had to know what an f-stop was. That's all gone. So it really comes down to your creative angle now.

Do you think there is a point in time though when an entrepreneur, somebody who's working on their brand as a business, maybe they are using their phone for everything, needs to start investing in more professional equipment?

It all depends what you're doing. Like, I have friends that are doing really well as social media, you know, icons, and they use their phones. So, you know, it depends what you're doing. I guess there's a tool for everything.

Yeah.

I do think, like, what we're seeing in live action, you know, we're still capturing, say, files in 8K, so they're huge. And we were just doing something last weekend with these college athletes on green screen. So it's an 8K file, so it allows them, they could zoom in as much as they want. And, you know, you could, it gives you a lot of latitude. And the same way on your still cameras with the, you know, the, that have the high resolution and stuff like that. So it's still, we are still professionals and it gives you a little bit of an edge, depend, but again, depends how it's being used.

You know, and I— this is a two-parter because one, on one hand, you've worked with all these major brands. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your process working with American Airlines, AT&T, Coca-Cola, Frito-Lay. When a brand comes to you, what's the first thing that you try to understand before you figure out exactly how you're going to shoot, what you're going to shoot?

Well, understand what their needs are. So they'll usually give us a brief. For the project, or if we're selling, like if I've been, if I decide I wanna work with a brand, I'll go after them, I'll do my research, but they'll give you a brief and, you know, you see what they're trying to accomplish. And then usually there's a couple of phone calls and you kind of get a sense of their culture and their point of view. And then of course, you know, you try to be a mind reader and put together a treatment based on what you think they want and hope that that is actually what they want. And a lot of times even everybody's aligned and then you get on set and you realize that not everybody was exactly aligned and you need to think fast on your feet. And that's where I think back to what you're saying about an entrepreneur as well as a creative is that it's a people business, like anything, like, look, any business is a people business. So if we get on set and there are 4 or 5 clients and they don't all agree, and yet we say we have a celebrity standing there who has a clock that's like, I have, you have an hour. So, you know, it becomes up to me to hear what's going on, talk it through, try to find a compromise and execute and deliver. So I think the people, the interpersonal relationships are as important as your technical. You know, your technical stuff, there are so many people that could do it technically. And in the end, so much of it comes down to how you interact with your clients as well as how you interact with the talent. And that's really what the defining factor is going to be. And it doesn't matter if you're in film, in photography, in anything where you have people, that's what's going to be important. Yeah.

Yeah, that was actually answering part of my next question too, which was when you have creative differences, you think you're supposed to be shooting one thing you shoot it and you're maybe given a little bit of creative license, but then there are a lot of levels of approvals that it has to go through. So, you know, how do you walk that line?

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Oh, no.

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I think you walk the line by, for one thing for sure, not having a big ego. And that's actually, believe it or not, that goes all the way back to Helmut Newton, who was a super famous photographer. Zero ego. Now granted, he shot what he wanted to shoot and nobody was gonna tell him what. I believe I am in the commercial arts. I'm in the commercial production field. So I'm working for clients and I understand that. So what my whole thing is to make sure we capture what they want plus some, you know, we're always gonna bring back their safe solution and then we always wanna overdeliver. And the thing is, especially when you're on the clock, you have to find that time to overdeliver while in the whole, you know, confines of the allotted time. So, and that's something that I just kind of thrive on, that rush of trying to make it all happen, make it all happen fast.

And one thing we're seeing a lot on social media with social media campaigns for brands, and sometimes even in commercials, I mean, I know during the pandemic there was a shift to We can't do all these big productions, so we're going to send people equipment to shoot something at home, right? And we're seeing that continue with consumers wanting to trust brands that are authentic, that seem like they're speaking to them, and some professionally produced content now made to look like user-generated. So is that affecting your line of work?

Is it?

Yes.

I mean, I admit, yes, yes, I will say I think it was very successful when it was used. I feel like it dumbed down, or I mean, people think it's authentic, so they believe it. I think sometimes we've been criticized post-COVID of being too produced, even though we're now trying to make it look unproduced. And I also think it opened the door to more people to get into the industry because it's authentic content. So back, they are just shooting with their phone and that's what the brands want. So it kind of leaves us kind of out in the cold a bit 'cause it's like, oh no, that guy's shooting on his phone. That's perfect. That's all we want. You know, that's perfect.

Well, and with things like going from green screen to Unreal Engine to now AI, and you talked about how you are doing an AI project, what skills did you and your team have to learn and how, and ethically, is that a dilemma somebody who's had an amazing career, you know, in traditional work.

But everything we're doing, everything we're doing is we're generating from scratch. So we're not like using other people's stuff. And now granted, I'm, this is early days. I will, I will just, so I might backpedal on all of this, but no, we are using stuff from scratch. So verbal prompts and I mean, how I feel about it, I don't know how I feel about it. Honestly, I, I, I, I think I would rather shoot something. Back in December, we were in the middle of, uh, in pre-pro for a commercial, and we had scouted it and we had done the casting. And then the client came back and said, hey, somebody at the agency did this in AI. What do you think? And he showed it to me, and I'm like, I mean, it's not the same, but like, as a businessman, I understand that he's saving $200,000 by going that way. And so the holidays came and went and we were on the fence. And then he said, no, the client decided to go with it. And they finished it and they sent me what it looked like. Yeah, I mean, it didn't have quite the emotional tug, I would think, or the authentic feel, because you could tell there are certain times you could really tell they weren't real people. But then put yourself in the shoes of a CMO at a company that is getting downward price pressure from your bosses. And it's like, hey, I fulfilled that brief. It's not like a huge branding thing. So it's kind of not that important. And I saved a couple hundred thousand dollars. All of a sudden, they look like a hero.

Right.

So it's this, I wish I was a business, I wish I was in business school now, or maybe in 5 years to read the case studies on how this is happening and how it's transforming. And Will the public decide that it's okay watching cartoons, so to speak, instead of anything else? And they may. I mean, and if you're selling a Huggies commercial, do you really care? Does it really matter? You know?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Those are all good points and things I think we're all still trying to figure out. I mean, there are AI podcasts. I don't want to listen to one that's just AI. I want to hear those genuine conversations and see what rabbit holes they go down if they do, right?

Absolutely.

And I do know there are some film companies that are shooting in AI, but they're hiring real people to storyboard, to set design, to direct. They're even, you know, the lighting experts and maybe hiring actors that they can duplicate. So to, my hope would be for the creative fields that there is a hybrid solution.

Oh no, I agree. And I think getting to the solution of what you wanna shoot, people are using a lot of AI. And I saw a presentation recently for a company called springboards.ai. They're out of Australia, which for ideation for ad agencies or creative teams, it was pretty amazing. Now I just saw the demo, but it was pretty amazing. And they're using it to storyboard, but then when you get to production, at least, you know, a lot of people still want to shoot. Now another thing, then you have the virtual walls, which is something else I don't have a lot of experience on and like I said, I always— I got into this to be out on the go and traveling and shooting on location and finding new places. So this year in a studio, you know, but it looks real. So, you know, your whole back wall or your whole nearly 360 in the ceiling is a video and you create the mid-ground, the foreground and the mid-ground with your talent. And then the background kind of moves just like you're on set.

Wow.

And I mean, it's kind of cool. They're using it for a lot of car advertising now because, you know, you could be driving down a mountain road or then on the highway. And I saw friends who had used it and they showed me this music video they did. And, you know, at first I was skeptical, but then I'm thinking it looks like they shot in Paris, they shot on the Brooklyn Bridge, they shot in San Francisco, and they shot it all in one day. And it looked real. I mean, I swear to God, I couldn't tell the difference. I'm like, okay, it has a use. It has a really, really valid use. And you know, in the end, all that matters is what you put on the screen, right? If you think of a feature film, does it matter if they spent $200 million or $20 million? If it speaks to you, it works, right? So I think we need to think that way. And in what we're producing and what we're sharing with the public needs to be so compelling that it doesn't matter how we shoot it. You know, I mean, I don't think you get a gold star for spending the most on a production. I think you're now gonna get a gold star for having a production that connects with your viewer and doing it efficiently. Yeah.

Well, you also are a boutique agency, so you're competing with bigger conglomerations. What was your philosophical decision behind staying boutique, you know, versus And you mean in the licensing field? Licensing, yeah. And just having to compete with all these other companies out there. And how do you differentiate yourself?

Yeah, how about, I mean, could I use one word? Stupidity.

No.

Ignorance. Again, loving what I do and thinking that I can make a difference and I could connect with people and I could connect with customers that will see our value-add, our value proposition, and sustain us. You know, compared to the big guys, it's not like we need a lot. In the big picture, we're way smaller. You know, in the licensing space, you know, it's a $5 billion industry, so there's room for a couple of people. And I don't even know what the commercial production space spend is annually. So you need to narrow down your focus and really try to find your tribe, so to speak, try to find the people that you could connect with and enjoy the ride.

And speaking of, we're alluding to a company that you acquired in 2019 a little bit, Superstock, which a 50-year-old company, millions of assets. Most photographers, I don't think, would have the foresight to purchase a stock photo company and to think of that as an addition to their portfolio.

Well, I could give you, It wasn't exactly like that, but I will just say, because of what I did and how I traveled and how I shot, I was a very early adopter to licensing. Early in my career happened to coincide with the formation of Getty Images, and I happened to be part of that crew that really helped launch them in terms of providing content. So I understood the power of licensing. And through that, of course, you know, met a lot of people and it was totally separate from my production world. And, but I met a lot of people and I maybe made a couple of investments that I should have thought through a little better. And there's a lot of challenges in that industry as well. One, I mean, AI is a huge one in that one. But the reason I really was, I had invested a little money in Superstock and then everybody was kind of letting it rot, so to speak. So I stepped in and I kind of took out my partners and decided that I was going to commit to doing what they had told me they were going to do when I invested in it, which was really invest in technology and invest in really contemporary new content. And another thing that I really wasn't— what really swayed me is the archive owned some amazing vintage collections and they owned them outright. And this is like advertising photography from New York City in the '50s and '60s and just some crazy stuff. And I'm thinking, okay, well, this has got to have some value. Plus I love pictures. I mean, I'm, I, I'm obviously a photographer. I collect. And so I'm kind of a sucker for a great picture. So that's kind of how I ended up in it. And of course, one thing leads to another. It's like, oh, we need to do this. Oh, we need to invest in this. We need to invest in this. And we ended up acquiring a couple of other great collections now, which I'm very proud to own. Like one that was a family collection called the H. Armstrong Roberts that started in Philadelphia in the '30s, and it was family owned until we took it over 2 years ago. And it was 4 generations were, were, were involved with it. But I mean, there are stories and this is part of our lives, right? Stories about the widow of the last family member who I ended up buying it from. She was showing me pictures from the '30s of the original H. Armstrong Roberts on taking pictures of his mistress, like in the '30s, like out west. They would do road trips out to like the western United States and then dress up and have picnics and take pictures and then license them. Like just crazy stuff. That you would never think about and I would never think about. And does it really matter? But it's like the stories behind them and then how that family evolved, like the son came in and then, you know, this mistress became the teacher or the nanny for the kids. I mean, crazy stuff. And so, I mean, if you look at it that way, it's also provided me with really some real texture and interest to who I am and what I do. And it's also opened doors to other people being interested in it. Like we had the curator from Christie's here a couple of months ago, and he was going through some of this work thinking, oh my God, this is amazing. So again, will there be a big future for it? Can I compete with Getty Images? Absolutely not. Can I find a niche for it that will really hopefully stand out? Yes, I can. And that's what I'm planning to do.

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That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

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Wonderful. And when somebody's looking for a specific type of photo, what would that be that would lead them to you?

Well, hopefully, well, one, I could tell you how to come to superstock.com. We have a great sales team. They'll do all the research for people. We do research for people all over the world. We have offices in Canada and in the UK and in the States. And we're making a go of it. And along the way, I'm meeting some really, really fascinating people. And I think, you know, it's interesting when you think about people that are, say, customers of, say, Getty Images. A lot of big corporations have these huge contracts with Getty, but then a lot of times when they can't find what they're looking for there, they come to us and we have some nice relationships with these people because they're looking for just weird esoteric imagery. So it's interesting. We, we acquired another collection, which was the history of the Sydney Morning Herald, but pre-1955. And right. Okay. It's a long story. I don't, your podcast isn't that long, but how about this? We're going through it one day and I see a photograph of Alfred Hitchcock on the set of Rear Window, like, like a BTS shot. I'm like, where did this come from? And all of a sudden, and it's something we have. So it's kind of stuff like that, that keeps me going.

And I do feel, I mean, I was recently at a gala for Junior League of Los Angeles' 100th anniversary, and we had fashion throughout the 100 years, and it was curated from collections, I think mostly from New York and from other places. And it was so fun to take a look at all of this fashion from these different decades. And I think the same thing applies to what you're talking about is Being able to take a look back at moments in time that were very special to somebody. Some of them maybe not as special, but some that we wouldn't have access to or be able to see like that behind the scenes moment.

Right, right.

So it's really cool. I think nostalgia is making a comeback, as you know, it always does. But, but I think these are things that people are, are really interested in, especially as we get into this world where we can produce, you know, we can spout out anything and prompt AI to create some weird visual for us.

Right, right. Yeah. And then I just came across some stuff like, and even, okay, so early in my career, I guess it's starting to be vintage because it's been a minute. And I remember being a photo assistant going into these big corporations, into their computer rooms. Remember when they had these big tapes and these rows of colorful tapes? I mean, it was really cool looking, you know? And for us, it was foreign to everybody at the time. But looking at it, thinking about it now, it's, everyone's like, what, what? You know? And so again, it's a little bit of history and back to why I do what I do. The only way I would have ever gotten into that computer room is having, doing what I'm doing, you know? So that's, it helps round it.

Well, outside of your client work and becoming a, you know, conglomerate in the Stock World. You also have been working on a series called Identity, a monograph of well-known unusual people, and also Seen Red about the supposed extinction of redheads. What drives you in your personal projects? How do you choose them? And what do these projects do for you creatively that your other work just doesn't hit?

Well, those were two coffee table books that, that I created. Over the years. And I mean, they're just, if I'm not, if we're not working on jobs, I'm working on something. And I've always had pet projects. And at a certain point I said, okay, I'm gonna, I need to focus. I need to do something that would lasting in the art world. Like I have less of a footprint in the art world than I do in the commercial world. As much as I love the art world and I collect a lot and we've sold some pictures and, but like the identity book was a testament. And I came up with this, I don't know how, but it's like, what if I just reach out to people and ask them if I could photograph them and have them write in their own hand what makes them unique as an individual and print their, what their response, like in their writing on the next page opposite it. And it turned out it was a great project. And I have some amazing rejection letters, like all the way, like really, I mean, As many people as we photographed, I have more rejection letters. Wow. And, and back in the day, you know, um, when I started that, when did I start that? I, cause some, I still have some like faxes even. So, I mean, it was an older project, but again, I got to meet people that I would not have met otherwise. And I got to spend time with them. And to me, that was the way to open the door. And even like, just say there, for instance, I, uh, was coming home one night from a job on a plane and I was reading something and I saw something about Sonny Barger, who was one of the founders of the Hells Angels, had just been released from prison and was living in Arizona. And so I get home and the next morning I come into the studio and I put that piece of paper, whatever I was reading on my producer's desk. And I'm like, let's see if we could go photograph Sonny Barger. And she made a couple calls. And next thing you know, we're flying to Phoenix to spend the day with Sonny Barger. So like, how else would that have come about? You know? And I mean, the list is long. I mean, from, you know, Jane Goodall. And I mean, there's some really, really fantastic names. And So that should tell you why. And oh, here's a good one. One of the first ones, and this is really what started me on the, on the crazy project. So I was on a project actually in Venezuela with a producer. That's when Venezuela was safe still. And I was telling him about the book that I wanted to do and the project. And so we were drinking caipirinhas and writing down on a napkin who would be interesting people. And I brought up that I had just read an article about the woman that they wrote the song, The Girl from Ipanema, and that she was still alive and she lived in Brazil. And, and I thought, well, she would be good. So this guy, you know, I, I come back to Texas, he goes back to New York. And I said to him, I'm like, hey, if you line her up, if you line it up, I'll take you to Brazil. He calls me back in 2 weeks. He's like, we're going to Rio. So what you just got is a little glimpse of how I operate. I mean, it has nothing to do with profit in every sense. It's really more about adventure. And I think if you open the right doors and you do great work, it all kind of works out in the end.

Yeah. So bringing it back to, you know, small businesses, entrepreneurs, people building their brands, what are the things that they should be thinking about? What are the things that they get wrong with their visual identity? That you think they should focus on?

Well, I do think that you need to really figure out who you are and what you're trying to do, what you're trying to sell, and come up with a look and a feel for your brand and stick to it for a minute. I mean, a lot of people change looks and feel, like change their branding a lot. I mean, that's unnecessary. It's more about who you are and what you want to do. And then really, you need dogged determination. It's really, you know, you need to meet people. I mean, people open doors and you need to give back to the community. We do our fair share of nonprofit work as well for projects I feel that are relevant and just try to ingratiate yourself with who the— you're buying public, so to speak, or you're buying, you know, sector and do whatever you have to do to work your way into their lexicon. And, you know, continue to do it. And the thing, you have to make sure you love it because there are days that aren't necessarily great, but if you love it, it really, it doesn't matter. And that's where we see a lot of people have come and gone through a lot of, you know, I'm sure your circle, my circle, and they find their, they find their vibe somewhere else. I'm a believer of if you really love what you do, there's still a way to do it and you could still make a good living and live a great life and be fulfilled. And if you're not, I think you need to find something else. I do feel that because some days, man, some days it's like, ooh, yeah, there better be a, there better be a silver lining at the end of this one.

Yeah, this is all so true. There are the really good days and there are the tough days, but the really good days should make us stay energized even for those tough days.

They totally do. Totally.

What is, or who is, I should say, a brand whose content and visual identity you really admire, other than your own?

Ooh, well, mine, I'm small. I'm small potatoes. If you're talking big brands, you know, I think brands that have stuck to their guns, I mean, granted, you could go to the Nikes of the world that they've, even though they're having a little hard time now, but, they did for so long, you know, they had a look and a feel and they stuck to it. And it was about the athlete and about the shoes and stuff like that. Look at today, you know, look at insurance, you look at the EMU or you look at Flo. And these are brands that they stick to a look and feel. And granted, hang on, Progressive is the EMU, right?

Progressive is Flo.

Oh, see, I don't even know, but I know Flo and I know the Emu and, and again, the Mr. Chaos dude, and it's all insurance and the insurance sector is really, they've created looks and feels, even though I can't name what the company is.

Emu is from Liberty Mutual Insurance.

Oh, right. Liberty. Liberty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, those are really great because I, it's not just about large brands that we all know have the same. Identities and sometimes try to switch them up a little bit. We've seen issues with Pepsi and with Coke with certain rebrands done, right? But the cleverness is what's sticking with us and the juxtaposition of like, we would not associate a gecko or flow or an emu with insurance.

But think about it. Here's the other thing, even more than that is I think they've stuck to it. So they didn't. Run it for a year or 18 months and have a new CMO and say, you know what, we're going to change it. I mean, they stuck to it. And I think that is really the gold in today's world where we are so inundated, like so inundated every day with so many messages. To remember any brand, I think for us as a general public is really hard.

Yeah.

So I think that's, I mean, everyone knows Nike, everyone knows Flo, you know, I mean, there are, I'm sure there are a bunch of other ones. Do you remember, okay, this is a couple years ago, and Mountain Dew, I think they messed up. Do you remember it was a Super Bowl ad and it stuck in my head and I'm really dumb sometimes. It was the baby monkey, something like, it was a baby monkey puppy. It was a whole song. Look it up. Baby monkey puppy. And it was, it was so dumb, but had they stuck to it, I mean, baby monkey puppy. That's what every, every ad needs, either a baby, a monkey, or a puppy. And I wish they had stuck with it because I think it would've been a success. That's the one I think that got away. So anyway.

Nice. So, but yeah, that one certainly was unique. And again, like you said, not sticking to things. And that makes me even think about Coca-Cola sticking to the kind of holiday ad that they do, but switching it to an AI ad. People did notice the difference, right? It still did give people like, wait a minute, this doesn't feel as good or as heartwarming.

Well, Coke's, I mean, listen, they're huge and they're obviously successful. I feel like they've made some missteps along the way. You know, remember when they did the New Coke? And I mean, they've done some iterations over the years, but look how long they've been around, you know? And I guess they keep trying things and I understand The AI attempt, you know, we're talking about it, but does it take away from it? And again, this goes back to the authenticity and do you feel it? You know, do you get, you know, like a Hallmark ad? You're not feeling that from an AI spot, you know?

What is the best piece of advice that you received when you decided to start a creative agency?

Ooh. Well, there's, it's not the destiny, it's the journey. It's the journey. It's not the destination. Because really, there is no destination. Like, I think about, like, you know, no, it's the journey. It's the everyday. And it's the attitude and the willingness to learn that is really going to make you survive and thrive.

That's excellent. And is there a story that you still want to tell?

Career-wise or to you?

Yeah, either.

Oh boy. I mean, there are a lot of them. That's it. I don't have one on the tip of my tongue that I'm, I'm kind of working today. I feel like the thing that's really on my mind right now is making sure and questioning, is, will there be an audience to receive the stories we want to tell? And is it all becoming such noise? And that's what worries me because I think we all have stories. Every artist has stories to tell, you know, will people appreciate the art galleries? Will people appreciate coffee table books? I just did a couple of conversations with people about coffee table books, because I feel like less and less people are buying books even. And I mean, that's such a great thing for artists. And even author, you know, authors, there's that whole thing about AI thing that came out last week about books, but people are still reading books, but are people looking at fine art coffee table books? I don't know. So anyway, that's what's, what's on my mind. I hope that everybody still feels the need to be fulfilled by the arts and wants to consume them any way they see fit because that's going to allow artists and creative artists, commercial artists, all over the place to continue to thrive.

100%. Do you have another coffee table book coming out?

Nothing yet, but there is one in here.

Okay.

And it's, it's going to be good.

Okay. Well, we'll wait.

That's all I'll say. It will be good. It will be good. And you will be at the top of the list to get one.

Oh, well, thank you. And we'll have to bring you back.

Now I just know. See, now the fact that, that you brought it up and that I said it's, there's one coming. Now, this is my problem. When I say I'm gonna, like, once you verbalize it, like, you have to do it.

Absolutely. We're gonna hold you to it. All right.

I'm in. I'm in.

Awesome. Oh, this has been a really fun conversation, Stuart. I don't know if this went the way that you thought it was going to go at all, but it was great. I had a lot of fun and there's a lot of good nuggets in there for us to think about when it comes to the future of creativity, how we balance creativity and business and, you know, this whole world of what is authentic, what is AI, and what role does photography, videography, real life have in this ongoing world.

Yeah. Hopefully everybody will like it. I think, I think you're an amazing interviewer.

Oh, thank you.

You asked really leading questions, which I think allowed us to talk about some great things. So thank you.

Well, no, I appreciate hearing that so much. Thank you. Thank you to everybody who's watching this episode or listening to it. We will have links for all of Stuart's amazing businesses in the show notes. So if you are looking for somebody to help you out creatively, if you're looking for stock imagery, many pieces of nostalgia and really amazing things, you're going to be able to go to Stuart Cohen, you're gonna be able to go to Superstock and get what you need. So I know that's a new resource that I am sharing with my students in my digital content direction class tonight.

So actually we have a student program that if it's doing it for school projects, it's free.

Oh my gosh.

So I will, I will hook you up with that.

Okay. I will happily accept that hookup for my students. So thank you.

Yeah. Sure.

And I'll be back again with another amazing guest to share their story, their journey, and some fun with you on yours. But do think about where you're going creatively. What does your visual identity say about you? Sticking with it for the long term, as Stuart said, not just trying to switch things out before you even know if the audience is responding to it. And with that, have a great day and I'll see you soon. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Amplified, don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird.

What is this, your first date?

Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married.

Ah!

Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

Only pay for what you need at libertymutual.com.

Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.

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