Dismantling Podcast Gatekeeping: Courtney Reimer's Unfiltered Guide to Real Impact

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I do think it requires a certain amount of ego and confidence to decide you want to have a podcast. And it's that same self-centered egoness that ruins podcasts a lot of the time because they're not thinking, just like I said with the corporation, you know, a lot of thought leadership podcasts start just because one person decided, hey, I sound smart when I'm talking at parties, and they very well probably do. But does that equal a unique differentiated concept that's going to reach an audience and be sustainable beyond 3 episodes? Often not.

Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. This is one of those conversations I think we could honestly speak for a full day.

Absolutely.

And you offering value and funny stories. Courtney Reimer, I'm so, so happy to have you on the show.

So glad to be here. We— I was just saying how tenacious we were. We both are busy ladies with a lot of women going on in our lives, and we did not give up. We've been talking about doing this for months, and I'm so glad we didn't give up. It's really great to be here. Yeah.

And I, I just, I'm also so appreciative that you wanted to come on because your background, your pedigree in tech and in the world of Audible and audio and podcasting and writing. I mean, just a few things. Writer for New York Magazine. I'm looking at my other screen right now so I can just make sure I have all of them. Viacom, writer, reporter for MTV News, producer, editor, editorial director for both MTV and VH1 Radio. Managing editor for entertainment at Yahoo. I don't usually go through everybody's like this, but I'm just fascinated. Editor-in-chief of Discovery, right? And then Amazon Prime, doing so many different roles for Audible, Spotify, and then now your own business Sounds Great, which is such a great name for what we do. And I wanna talk about one thing specifically, right? You've worked with literal royalty. Meghan Markle's Archetypes was the number one podcast in the country. And you've also been in the room with Mel Robbins, Matthew McConaughey, Deepak Chopra, all people that we have all heard of and have some kind of relationship, whether love or hate, with. So after all of the experience that you've had through all of these major companies, what made you walk away from corporate and say, I'm gonna launch my own thing, I'm gonna hang my own shingle?

Well, first of all, Anika, thank you. Like, that's I need to just like bring you anytime I am feeling down and maybe imposter syndrome is sneaking in. Maybe you can just read all that to me.

100%. Happy, happy to be your cheerleader.

Thank you. So, well, I mean, to be perfectly candid, I had to be pulled away kicking and screaming from corporate because for so long, I mean, decades, right? I had my first job out of undergrad. Literally the Monday after I walked in graduation. So I, which, good luck grads. I don't know if that's gonna happen for you now, but it was at a startup in Sea— another accolade to just name drop, startup in Seattle run by Bill Gates's ghostwriter. What a fun little overlap that sort of says a lot about what's happened for me in my life. But anyway, I never thought I could run all of the things on my own, which is what you do when you start your own business, at least in the beginning. Until you're ready to like release control a little bit and bring other people on. And it turns out, yeah, it's, it's hard, but it's also so nice to be able to make the decision and not have to work or wait to hear from stakeholders and what does marketing have to say and what it— so it was shout out to my husband who was telling me, do your own thing, do your own thing for so long as I like had a bunch of near misses. I Didn't decide to walk away from Spotify, just to be perfectly blunt. I was one of 3 rounds of layoffs the year that they said goodbye to me and the Royals together. It was sort of a— they even said, it's not you, it's the portfolio. We're divesting from the Meghan and Harry relationship and you're running that. And we're also divesting from Gimlet and you're the glue between Gimlet and Spotify. So bye. And I was like, Whatever. I mean, I did appreciate, I've been laid off several times being in media, being like hearing those words. And I could tell that my boss went off script. Like HR is like right there saying, this is what you have to say. And she said to me, like, it's not you. Like, don't worry. There's nothing you could have done or should have done. It's that we're shifting how we're investing anyway. So I did not make some grand declaration. Like I've had enough of you corporate, whatever. I, it was. Okay, well there's that. Now I gotta get my big girl pants on and start looking for a job again. It took a year for me to realize, and with someone, some big company that is still around, say we're actually pulling the job after 3 months of like living their company principles and like all the rounds of interviews, including the CEO and them saying, um, we're not gonna do it, but maybe we'll bring you on as a consultant, which may have been a throwaway and actually probably was. They never did, but I was like, I don't want someone to fuck with my life and mental state and nervous system ever again. I'll just fuck with my own by trying to do too many things. So here we are. That's the long answer.

Yeah. No, but that's, it was that pinnacle moment when you said, I can either try this again with another company and keep going down this cycle.

Yep.

Or I can just launch my own thing, set my own schedule, and figure out what I really want to give to the world.

Exactly. And I remember the first time I had a client come to me and I made him a proposal and it was like within a day we were working on it, you know? And in corporate, for anybody who's worked at corporate, I remember at Spotify we would greenlight things that would be like, maybe we'll see that next year. Right? And so the ability to just remove all of the barriers and red tape and get things done is pretty amazing. And what was I going to say? Oh, I will say though, like, running my own show has been exhausting and challenging, and I've definitely had a breakdown the first time I realized I did not have an IT department and that I was the IT department. But I really encourage anyone in a similar position, you know, freelancing, starting their own thing, find a community, find your people. People will surprise you with their willingness to teach you what they know and give you their experience and help you learn from what they've learned. So I found one called The Upside. I'm in several communities. I'm kind of a community junkie, but The Upside is one that's specifically geared towards solopreneurs and agencies, but people who want to have, it's a very curated mix of other people who want to, you know, so I'm sort of the podcast person there. And then there's someone who's like, does legal contracts and, you know, so you sort of, it sort of mimics like a corporate environment of different people with different aptitudes, but without the corporate BS. So that's my plug for The Upside and communities generally.

Yeah. Oh, I mean, that's how we met, right? We met at a podcast conference. So I love the community that we have. I love a few things that you also say because you do talk about not everybody should have a podcast, but before we get into that, You started Sounds Great on Independence Day, and you've said that was both literal and poetic. And you also describe yourself as radicalized against corporate America, which I think you just hinted on.

So I had to ask that.

You can tell. Yeah. And I do think this plays into the grad students that I work with right now. There are some who will go on a traditional career path and try to get their ideal job at an agency or a company. But a lot of them are leaning into entrepreneurship or even intrapreneurship. So talk about why you're radicalized against corporate America, because I have a feeling we have a lot of the same ideas.

I mean, it's, it's, I tend to go all in on whatever I'm into, but for so many years I was all in on, oh, I work for Spotify and, you know, I'm going to bleed the green logo green. And, you know, and it, it just, it dawned on me like, I gave so much of myself to them and what, what did they give me? They just gave me a swift kick out the door when the, when the tides changed with absolutely no feeling. And I thought all that energy I could have been putting towards building my own brand and my own business, I gave to them and I have, I walked away with very little to show for it. Right. And I think about my kids, right? So that just using the Spotify example, again, I have two middle school aged daughters who are like into music and starting to discover podcasts thanks to YouTube. And when I got laid off from Spotify, I was able to process it pretty quickly because corporate America has kicked me in the butt many times and I have scar tissue. But they thought it was so cool that their mom worked at Spotify and saying to them, I was not prepared for their like, kind of like, oh no, because it was part of their identity too. But now I wish I might have one. They, you know, at school they have Chromebooks. I wish they were Macs, but whatever. And they have my sticker on their Chromebooks at school. And they, people will be like, what is that? And they'll be like, that's my mommy's business. And oh my God, like allegiance to mommy's business over allegiance to some brand is so much better. So that's just a part of why I'm. Pro making your own path.

Yeah, that's huge. I always love it when my daughter— because we're both mom, you know, girl moms. Yeah, girl moms— is when she says, oh, we had to think about this AI thing and it made me think of you and how you would approach this, or I have to do this project and then it reminded me of when you told me about doing this project in AI, or podcasting, or whatever the case may be. And I'm like, wow, you were really listening.

That's always my reaction too. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm getting through to you. You, you don't indicate it Most of the time.

Yeah.

Awesome. Awesome.

So you talked a little bit about the shift, right? To being your own IT, starting your own company. What are some of the other things that you realized were different about running your own company and particularly in the industry that you've been working in? So helping people with podcast strategy and figure out should they have a podcast and here's how you approach it.

Yeah. So you alluded to the whole, not everyone should have a podcast thing. And honestly, I won't lie. That was written when I was wondering if I should have one.

You're writing to yourself.

Yeah, I was. And I started my own podcast as a sort of meta experiment of pressure testing all of the advice and frameworks that I give to clients and cohorts. And what do you know? Like a lot of them work, but also I'm asking a lot of people in the ways I'm like, well, you got to put it out every week. And this, like there's certain maxims. That are supposedly true in podcasting. But yes, you do have to be constantly releasing and having a regular cadence so that you're at the top of people's feeds. But that's not for everyone. Like, you can have the idea of, I want to sit down in front of a mic and share my wit and wisdom for everyone, but then you have to do it again next week, or you at least have to be prepared to put one out again next weekend. Oh wait, follow up with a guest and The social media, which platform? All platforms, you know, and it's so much more work, especially if it's not your full-time job and you don't have staff to support you. So that's what I mean. It's not everyone should maybe at every moment, right? You have to find the right moment when there's time and commitment in your life to making it work because it's not an overnight success. It's something that requires a lot of intention and planning and space in your life for it. I probably went on a tangent there, but it's just been really interesting to sort— my podcast is called Talking the Talk, and it came out of my mentor saw me give a workshop also at a conference. Shout out to conferences. And I referred to myself as the shoeless cobbler because I've been working in podcasts for years. I have tons of knowledge, but I've never been the host of my own show, running my own show. And she was like, Great, great talk, Courtney. You can't be a shoeless cobbler anymore. I was like, how, when, with what time? And my whole talk had been about how entrepreneurs can build without burnout and how they can add a podcast to their mix. I was like, oh my God, hypocrisy much? I have to just do it. And it's really helped me refine what I'm teaching people and the ways in which I tell people they need to implement different frameworks. Because I'm using them and pressure testing them myself. So it's, it's a wild ride, but fun.

It is a wild ride and it is something I know my students at USC by the end of the semester, like, that was a lot harder than I thought it would be because they're writing business plans. They're having to think about every part of their strategy, how they're going to set up their SOPs, their guest experience, where are they going to record? Are they recording at USC? Well, then once they graduate, where are they recording?

Right.

All these different factors that also are the part of the reason why most people don't get through 8 episodes nowadays. Right. And why people just go, okay, I can't do this anymore. Yeah.

Because they haven't had someone like you help them set it up with real intention. You know, you're mentioning SOPs and business plans and I'm thinking, oh, whoops. You know, and my, my SOPs are coming together as I find out what operating rhythms work for me. It's hard to know in advance. That's the grace I'm giving myself because I sort of rushed my own podcast out the gate in ways that I would not have recommended others do. Same. It's like doctor, heal thyself constantly. But I bet your students will have podcasts that last because they're being thoughtful and setting up a really solid framework. So kudos to you and them. Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah. Hopefully I think that we'll have, I, last semester was about a 50%. Rate of continuation, and I think this semester will be higher and it's more students. So, and then next semester will be even better. So it's, again, it's continuous learning and that's one of the wonderful things too. It can be, you know, drive us crazy, but we are always having to upskill and learn more and see, I mean, Apple's finally out with the video podcast. I mean, there's so many things like that that we can talk about, but I think one thing I really want to ask you about is the fact that you do work with so many different types of people and experiences from auditing and redeveloping podcasts for Fortune 10 companies, also coaching first-time hosts through their first mic moment. I know what that can be like for people who know they have a message, know they have a podcast, but are still a little nervous about getting it out. So when you look at those very vast experiences or even your past corporate experiences with podcasts, what do these experiences all have in common and where do you think that they diverge?

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Wow. Okay. That's such a thoughtful question. Let me take it in a little bit. I think what they all have in common, and this includes Meghan Markle, is adjusting and finding comfort in a new medium. You can think I've been on a Zoom call, therefore I can sit and talk and yak and respond to questions and ask questions. It's just different and it's very intimate, but that also means it's very— there's a microscope on you, right? Like my face is very— I don't know if there's going to be a video, but it's like very zoomed in. You can see what I'm thinking and where I'm, you know, and so there it's hard to seperate yourself from that and you can sort of lose track of what brought you there in the first place when you're distracted by all of the elements and the things that go into making a podcast. So I think regardless of if you've, you know, you're the leader of the free world, God help us, but like anybody who's been on a big stage, it's, there's something different in a podcast. And then I would say, I think people have an expectation that they have to learn it all at once. Right? So one of the things I do with my first-time podcasters, who are generally so far been female founders, is just going for it, right? Like, we could spin and visualize all worst-case scenarios. And what I mean by going for it is I have them record a voice memo of what their trailer would be, like, by third session. Because just do it. You'll learn what words work together and how alliteration can look great on the page, but when you try to say two words that start with the same letter, just all the things, right? And then, but then once they've done that, it unlocks and yeah, the sound quality is bad, but you've used your voice, you've recorded something and guess what? You now have, I get tingles. Like I'm just like, you made something that's a podcast. Like now we're off. So just go for it.

Yeah. And what about the differences? I mean, obviously budget is one.

Oh, well, so it's, it's funny. I am my own case study now, and I have been working on podcasts that have a budget that's like more than my revenue last year for sure. And with marketing alone being— so when I sit down and I'm doing literally all of the jobs of a podcast that was previously, you know, any, like previously I've worked on podcasts that had a staff of like 25.

Oh my gosh.

Working on it. Right. I mean, people talk about The Daily or they talk about Diary of a CEO. I think, was it the, was it the conference we were at? There was a co— oh no, it was at Podcast Movement. Steven Bartlett was there and he was talking about the staff of 50 that it's like, so when I have a client come to me and they say, I wanna make that and I wanna have those kind of clips and I want it to be in that kind of studio and I want it to have that kind of lighting, it's like, probably not going to happen for them because they're not backed by a huge corporation or, you know, I don't know Steve Bartlett's origin story, but he probably didn't start exactly that way. He had to grow that way. So it requires a lot of patience and or a lot of money, right? So you have to manage your expectations of quality and output if you don't have a whole social media team to flood all of the channels. You won't, and it's just gonna take some time for you to find your rhythms and what works for you. You'll look, oh, that did better on Instagram and maybe I won't bother with whatever platform next time. Right?

Yeah.

So it's a test and learn, but in your own smaller budget, probably operation of one way when you're not a corporation making a podcast.

Yeah. So yeah, that makes a big difference. And then how about corporations? Do they usually have that sophistication of we're really going to invest in this and we're going to put a team behind it? Or is it taking a little bit of, you know, people from different departments and piecemealing the team?

And it's kind of interesting. So, they never said I couldn't say who they were, but Microsoft Research came to me and it was through somebody I knew, an undergrad at University of Washington. He ran the editorial department for Microsoft Research. And their challenge was not that they didn't just go for it. I mean, so many people start out inside or outside of a corporation without strategy. They start out with a podcast. They're just like, let's just do this. And it's true. The barrier to entry is, is low, but then they, it becomes unwieldy because they've got this many episodes and the host keeps changing and what topic, like it's all over the place. So I go in and I audit and I say what's working, what's not in terms of processes and hosting and cadence, you know, all the things that we have to think about. And for them, it was. you know, trying to fit people who are not normally in, I don't remember what your exact background is, but since you're at USC, I'm going to say that you have some media or background, right? Researchers are used to being in, you know, studying, not delivering. And so that was a very unique, I don't know if that has application across any other platform or any other. If I were to work for another client. But what I did learn is that they are very concerned with precision and making sure everything they're saying is backed up by facts, right? So sitting here riffing, I might have misstated, you know, a year or a time or whatever. For them, that's their whole identity and their whole credibility. So they would wanna be scripted every time. And I know there's an inclination for everyone, probably at first to feel like I wanna make sure I come up there and my, my words are buttoned up and I know what I'm gonna say, but it ends up falling flat. So there's a, a tension there of showing up in the way that, you know, you need to represent your ideas and your knowledge, but also in a way that's compelling and not just you reading from a page. So those are things, you know, it was nice that they, you know, that's the difference between a corporation and, and just someone, you know, like me, like I, I would, I could hire someone to audit me, but then they just tell me to hire more people. And that's like the, so yeah, it's, it's, it all comes down to budget, right? So corporations, they tend to know what they don't know so far I've found. That's why they bring someone in like me, but they generally need a lot more focus on what's on the other side. Of their, what they're creating than what's in front of the mic. They generally just are like, everybody has a podcast, so we should too. And does the boss like it? And is, what does the, you know, the head of marketing think? Not what's, how is it being received by the people you're trying to reach with it? So, yeah.

Yeah. That's so important. And, and that goes to your point. You also talk about most thought leadership podcasts really aren't that good.

Yeah.

So, which sounds like that, I mean, that's confirmation of what you're saying. But can you talk a little about what's the diagnosis? What's the cure? How do we solve this issue of everybody needs to have a podcast without having, you know, some of those inherent steps that I think you and I go through?

Yeah, it's because I do think it requires a certain amount of ego and confidence to decide you want to have a podcast. And it's that same self-centered egoness that ruins podcasts a lot of the time because they're not thinking, just like I said with the corporation, you know, a lot of thought leadership podcasts start just because one person decided, hey, I sound smart when I'm talking at parties, and they very well probably do. But does that equal a unique differentiated concept that's going to reach an audience and be sustainable beyond 3 episodes? Often not. And You know, the data bears that out. So I think it's about having a real, like you're doing, I can't believe how much intention is going into the podcast that you're making with your students at USC. It's, there's a smaller version of that even for people who aren't at USC where they're thinking, what's the outcome? What does ROI look like? And if you just go into it like, I want a platform and I want people to hear my voice and my ideas more. First of all, people probably won't because you won't have crafted it with intention. Second of all, you're going to get tired of your own voice too. And you need to have more of an end goal in mind. You need to have a sort of clear, a very clear picture of your audience and what you want them to get out of it too. And that's the thing most people forget.

The number of people who've started a podcast because they see me or they see somebody else doing it and they think, oh, well, you're making money off of this. So I can just start a podcast and I can make money. I'm like, no. It took me many years to realize that I actually had systems and processes in place that I hadn't codified, that it was a business and it wasn't just something I'm putting a lot of money into because I'm really having fun doing it. And that as a business I could actually monetize. And so it's not just you jump from one to the other. I do think now I like teaching people how to make money on podcasts because I think that if I can do it without having any kind of la-di-da background, that other people can do it a lot more easily.

Oh yeah. I mean, you put in the time. That's the thing. That's what I've said. It requires patience. And maybe you didn't even, I think you said you didn't intend, you weren't like, I'm going to go get rich off this. You did it because you wanted to, but then you must've noticed that people were responding to certain things and you built on that. And I think that's probably what was different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

True. But you do help people. You have the podcast accelerator.

Yeah.

And that goes through some of the very things that you're talking about right now.

Yes. And I think it's probably, it's funny, it's interesting to watch, you know, the word accelerator may be part of the problem, but some people want to go really fast. They want to go from, they want to skip over all of the audience development and the articulation of the transformation that you want someone to undergo from listening to your podcast, which they're like, it's just a podcast. I'm like, okay, let me just say, even if you're just gonna help moms, working moms feel better by having kind of funny conversations. Everybody wants to be Amy Poehler right now, and that's fine because I do love Amy Poehler. But you also have to know that what Amy Poehler does is she makes people forget their shitty lives for a minute, that she makes them like just like relax and sit and listen to a funny conversation. And whether or not that was her intention, maybe Amy Poehler doesn't need it because she has a huge budget. But when people come to me and they're like, I just, me and my friend, we have these great conversations and we're going to record them. Okay. What is the listener going to get out of it?

I don't know.

They'll just laugh. I'm like, okay, laughter is important. If you can make people laugh, great. There's a reason comedy podcasts are always dominating the charts. So, but let's, let's make that intentional and let's like build around Let's build templates and episode frameworks that will allow that to flourish and be repeatable so that you don't just exhaust and fall over by episode 4. So yeah. Yeah.

Talking the talk, your own podcast producing, you figured out some of those things that you thought would be easy that you realize are maybe not as easy or vice versa, and that it really does take a team. What do you say for that person that you are working with who doesn't have a team? They have to do all— they're going to do like all the editing themselves, which you've been doing also. They're gonna really just— you can help them with the framework by being their strategist, but then they have to do the work. Do you see them podfading? Are you there to help them push through and making sure that they're staying on track? Because I know that's something that you also mentioned about yourself is like, You need somebody else to give you the deadlines. I do too. And even then they may or may not happen.

So, yep. Today, in fact, that happened to me. But yeah, so first of all, I have a lot of shame about the fact that I'm editing my own podcast. Like in some ways I should be proud, right? I should be like, yeah, absolutely. How cool that I can do this, but also like, let go, Courtney, let someone else do it. But I'll put that aside for now. The thing that keeps me going and that I've even, I think I'm figuring out sort of the sequencing of when I need to tell my accelerator cohort or clients like that they need to think about this. And that is the ROI. And I don't even mean you're getting pennies from your ads that are running. I'm talking, please start thinking about forms of ROI that are not the download numbers that are not even, you know, getting booked on another podcast yet. Because that is ROI for sure. Thank you for having me, by the way. I swear the universe knows, like yesterday I was so exhausted. I knew I was not going to make my deadline to release an episode today. There's still time, but, um, I was on a call with someone and she was like, I've been listening to your podcast and I love it. And I was like, oh, thank you. Like just hearing that, if I only heard that once, that would keep me going for at least 4 more episodes. But writing that down, that if I can hear from someone that they have listened and it's done something, even if it's just given them distraction, great. I have reached someone, which is not true of every podcast. So I'm fortunate in that this isn't meant to immediately be my moneymaker and anyone who sets out with it, you already touched on that, is, is like going to be disappointed. For me, ROI, sure, it'd be great if someday I can make direct revenue off of it. But right now I have asked my audience to tell me, and you have to ask them, this is how I generate ROI. This is how I can control a little bit of ROI. I say, did this spark something in you? Did this make you mad? Do you disagree? Am I wrong about something? Or did this inspire something? Please, I give my email out and I say, send me an email. And they do. And it's it's been really good stuff so far. Knock on wood, it still will be, but just that connection with someone else that you had no idea was listening to it. It's really magical. It really is. So that it's a long way of saying you've got to know what a return looks like, what a return on your effort and investment so that when you get a little bit of that, you can, you know, it's good to keep going. Yeah.

And it's that encouragement we need to keep on going. Right. It's like the fuel.

For sure. Yeah. And my gas tank filled right up when she said, you know, uninvited, like I had no idea she would listen. I've been listening and it's good. I was like, oh God, thank God.

So yeah, that's, that's always the best is when I get the unsolicited email and they're like, this episode, I really needed to hear that episode at this moment in time.

Like, yes, it's the whole point. It's the whole point. Yeah.

And Doug. There's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

Only pay for for what you need at libertymutual.com.

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So with all of your different experience, do you have a favorite platform that you recommend to the people who you work with?

So, okay. It's funny. I was just talking with a client about this. When you say platform, we were talking about like, are we talking about Riverside? Are we talking about Captivate? Are we talking about YouTube?

We're talking about your RSS hosting company, if you will, or platform.

It's the thing constantly. So the name Talking the Talk is like my mentor saying, you got to walk the walk and talk the talk. I do not necessarily take my own medicine. I'm still figuring it out. I, it's funny you mentioned this because I literally just came from a conversation that I have this matrix comparing all of the different platforms, but it changes every time I go to, you know, endorse one to someone, their feature set has changed or their prices have changed or so listen, I just told someone, I don't know. I don't know if I would do it, but she's brand new to podcasting and she has a lot going on in her life. She does not have time for a tech stack. So the fact that Riverside is now hosting and editing and recording, I wouldn't blame her for, you know, I think maybe jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not sure. I haven't tried all of those things on Riverside yet, but it is certainly appealing to have a one-stop shop for all of those things.

So, and, and by the way, we are on Riverside right now and we don't one-stop shop it. My team pulls. Everything out, edits it outside platform. We'll take some of the AI things that it gives us and maybe reconfigure them somewhat. And we are hosted on a different platform.

Mm-hmm.

Because I, I agree with you. I'm like, I'm not sure. And you don't necessarily want to have a huge tech stack, but I always am investigating other tools and resources. And it is hard to figure out which one to place all of our trust in because they are changing or they're merging with somebody else. And now this other issue has come up, or now we have video, but you know, with Apple launching video, but some of the, it's not, you know, necessarily playing with Spotify or some other platforms that also act as hosting.

For me, it's the switching costs too. Like I made a decision early on based on what I thought. I did it for a client. I was basically his surrogate hosting platform. Just let me do this first and then I can hand it off to you. And I don't know. It's probably not the best, but I have all my stuff there and the switching costs to go to another, I'm just like, is it worth it on the bajillion things on my to-do list? Finding another hosting platform is not really high on the list. I have considered, I guess I'll say it out loud. And if I don't know, please folks write me if you've done this and you had a good or bad experience doing Substack instead, because it's a similar sort of one-stop shop. I don't yet have a newsletter. In fact, one of my first episodes is about maybe you don't need a newsletter. I love to be a sort of rabble-rouser in that way. But the idea of it living in one place where people can start to have, I said community earlier, the idea is that there's conversation happening around the episodes and the newsletter that maybe is a spinoff of the podcast. I like that idea of there being a home for that conversation. So, Maybe it's Substack. I don't know yet.

You talked about the pivot to video a little bit. You know, we're saying that people are recording video. You asked, you know, is this going to be video and audio, even though we're able to see each other and I always use both. But I'd love to get your thoughts on that tension because I do know people who just want to do audio. They're just recording video to use Shorts for social promotion. But other than that, they're like, nope, I'm just an audio podcast.

Yeah, well, that was my intention. And that's because it's, it's sort of like, it's interesting you asked this right after the switching cost. It's almost like a switching cost for me, right? Like I have been an audio person. My very first, I don't know if I put this in an email to you or anything, but actually, sorry, it's my second. My first job was with Bill Gates's ghostwriter. My second job was at a company in Seattle, another startup called Real Audio, which you might remember. I feel like you like just pay attention to like nerding out kind of, so it was proto streaming audio before it was a thing in the year 2000. I worked there and all of this to say audio has been in my bones forever. I was also a music journalist at the time. And so audio does something for me, something magical and special that I think video distracts from. I think you don't get the same experience watching a podcast as you do listening to it. My friend Sasha Hamrogue, who I worked with at MTV and was on my podcast and is now running podcasts in Ireland for a major radio network, referred to audio as the greatest imagination engine. And I agree so much. Like, that's a great phrase. I posted something. This is like sort of a tangent, but I think it'll get the point. So This American Life, Ira Glass, he's like the OG of podcasting. Before the word podcast, he had a podcast. And he's been on Instagram a lot lately, and I remixed one of the reels that he posted of him just talking about that week's episode. And he said, every time I start one of these, people say, is that what you look like? And he's like, he's like, yes, this is what I look like. And I mean, he's a white man who's like doing fine in the world, but I think women particularly, it's another burden to have to think about what we look like. When we're just trying to have a thoughtful conversation or share expertise or knowledge. So there's a tension. I know it's how podcasts get discovered. I have started consuming some podcasts there as, you know, I'm dutiful. Like I need to learn that this is my business and I consume some there. I also know it's just so much more work. Like I, last thing on this for people who need to, I don't have a ring light. I have one behind me, but my light is mainly the window right in front of me. And so I was recording a masterclass for Microsoft and I started it in the morning and then by the night I was still, and it looks different. And I don't want to have to think about that. I don't want to have to think about the lighting. I don't want to have to think about my hair, you know, but I do. So that's it. I, and, and what I say to people that I advise, same thing. It's not just about me. It's starting a podcast is a lot of work. I say tiptoe in with an audio or a hybrid. First, get your sea legs and figure out what your podcast is like in terms of the message and the words and the format. I mean, and by format, I mean, is it a conversation? Is there a solo? And then layer on audio once you've got that nailed, right? Like we walk before we run. And so if you try to take it all on at once, the data bears this out that especially women of around my age, I just turned 52, happy to be alive.

We are not, by the way, thank you.

We are not the primary consumers of video podcasts, right? But we've been told we need to have video podcasts. And when those are mismatched, when it's not what we would consume, it fatigues us at a higher rate and we drop out. And so I'm trying to prevent people like me from dropping out. I'm trying to prevent me from dropping out. So I'm taking my time getting into the full-fledged, full-length video episode thing.

I think that's smart because even with video, you know, we pop my videos up on YouTube. And they're not, I'm not like, I'm like, oh, that wasn't perfect. Or the light changed because I've tried moving my studio around my house a few different places, which is why I'm really excited about my new studio. But yeah, the light changes or my hair just, I didn't feel like straight. I mean, today I washed it, I straightened it in between meetings.

Good job. Like, that is a big, I have to put it on my calendar the day I'm going to wash and blow dry my hair.

100%.

Same.

But I'm like, ooh, it would really be better if I could add B-roll and if I could add all these extra things to it to make it a little more fun and engaging rather than just watching two people. So yeah, all of these things have to go into consideration. Then it's like, oh well, that's going to take another team member, or I'm gonna have to hire a company, and how much more is that going to cost? Do I have the budget for that right now? Yeah. So because, because I feel like I'm constantly feeding into trying new things, testing things out, because like you, I want to know enough that I can give people advice and say, well, this was my experience trying this thing out. So, okay, so I wanna ask another question about discoverability because I know that this is one of your things that you also talk about is discovery and podcast apps. And the funny thing is, yes, I, it could be abysmal and I wanna hear your viewpoint on that, but I've also had people reach out to me because they said, I don't know if you knew, but Apple featured you as a podcast and that's how I found you.

And so cool.

And I'm like, whoa, I didn't even know I was being featured. And I was like, cool, I wish I had known that so that I would have been able to like screenshot it or something. But the fact that somebody reached out to me, I was like, okay, that's pretty cool. I mean, it was one person so far, but you know.

And those are what we call in the business editorial surfaces, right? Or merchandising surfaces. And obviously as with everything, AI has taken over a lot of those surfaces. It's not humans selecting and curating what's shown there. And with good reason. I think that, I think algorithms can work for good, but that's why maybe you see certain big names or big companies. I'm not saying it's pay to play, but people have time. Time is a currency, right? I don't have time. There is a way you can reach out to Apple Podcasts and say, I would like to be featured. They, I think they have a form on Apple Podcasts Connect. Don't quote me. I do know they have a form and you can say, here's why you should feature me. Probably takes 15 minutes max. I don't have 15 minutes. Time is money. All to say, it requires a, it requires effort on your part and a human on the other part to say yes. So that's the primary reason for having constant producing is that like, that's how it, it recency is what shows up at the top of the feeds. I don't have to tell you, but in case other folks don't know why we're cracking the whip on ourselves and on you to keep publishing is that's, that's how you end up high in the algorithm. I, however, you know, and so I say, yes, you know, video is, and I will say a necessary evil. I say evil just because again, like I don't want to wash my hair all the time, but even still, I was talking to a client about this yesterday, the jump from like seeing something in a video reel on Instagram to saying, I'm going to plop on my headphones and go. Listen to it is a big leap. And so that's why you want to get people where they are in their native podcasting environment. And granted, a lot of that is moving to YouTube for a lot of people, but a better way is to, hi, like be on a like-minded or someone who's great and mention your podcast. And hopefully someone from here will like find my podcast. It's because you're talking to people who are already podcast listeners. Not every TikTok scroller or Instagram scroller is a podcast listener. And in fact, they probably don't know, like my kids, I guarantee are seeing things in their feeds that are podcasts, but they don't know. They don't identify it as that. Right. So I don't know. Yeah.

Fair, fair point. I think I was actually listening to Pod News this morning and they're talking about how 25% of Americans haven't listened to podcasts. It's like, I mean, I probably have—

yeah, Ira Glass.

Like, they've probably listened to Ira Glass, who they just didn't even know it, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Courtney, what do you want your brand to be known for? You as a brand and/or Sounds Great.

So glad you asked about Sounds Great. I wanted to interject this in the beginning that you— because you complimented it and I felt so clever when I said it, especially because everybody ends meetings or conversations with like Sounds great. Like, thanks for the promotion. However, like when I'm up here for like the 8th hour editing my episode and my husband's like, can you just, and I'm like, my company's called Sounds Great. It has to sound great. I've thought about rebranding. I'm not kidding. Just when the audio is failing me, I'm like, this one's not going to sound great. The audio is not the— anyway, what I want people to know is that while I say not everyone should have a podcast, I do think every, anyone can. Right? Like, I can't remember her name, but there's a blind girl who has a podcast. And like, even with, you know, there's accessibility accommodations you can make. I do think literally anyone is capable of having a podcast. And I'm here if you have a strong desire to have a podcast and you are determined, I will help you. I know I experienced in working at these high-end brands some sort of a little bit of snobbery. And gatekeeping around who is allowed to have a podcast, right? And this is the high-end narrative, HBO of podcasting kind of stuff that was sort of like, huh, well, is your story worth telling and can you tell it in an elevated way? And I love those podcasts too. Those are, that's some of my favorite podcasts are the beautifully produced, researched, reported, but there's room for everyone at the table. And I love welcoming people in and I love not gatekeeping and sharing, probably to the detriment of my business. I'll just sidle up to me at a party and I'll tell you how to make a podcast and there goes a client. But I, I want more people at this table and I think that a rising tide lifts all ships and that we should all, all, like, if we want to, we should be able to. And I wanna make that work for people.

I, I said this about the interview I did just before yours, but we have so much in common in the way that we approach life and business and who we're helping and who we're working with and how we want to change the world through this work that I just really appreciate that.

Same. Good. Yeah. I remember our first conversation and you were just like, oh, we gotta, we gotta make a podcast out of that.

100%. 100%.

I agree.

Yeah.

And obviously I've said this finally, like one last benefit of podcasting is you are much more likely to get— everybody wants to be a guest on a podcast. I'm sure you've heard. You're much more likely to be on a podcast if you have a podcast. So we're both busy ladies. It might not happen until the end of 2026, but I would really like for you to be— I'm publicly like promposing you to be on my podcast.

I accept.

Okay, good. Little love fest. It's good.

Yes, 100%. Well, we will link your website, your LinkedIn, your podcast in the show notes.

Do you have anything? And my email. I love giving out my email. As much as I hate email and I can't keep up with it, Courtney, Courtney@soundsgreatstrategy. Tell me what you love and hate about what I've had to say. I want to hear from you.

Amazing. Amazing. I actually am going to steal that and start doing that too.

Great. Let me know how it goes. Yeah, people have responded to it.

So amazing. Courtney, do you have a favorite quote, mantra, verse, poem, family motto?

I actually do. And it stuck with me. I'm very fickle, but que sera sera, whatever will be will be. You remember the song? Popularized by Doris Day. But yeah, that's true.

Amazing. It really is. I just, I wanna have hours and hours of conversation with you.

Thanks. We will. We'll do a, we'll do a little mini series together or something.

100%. Let's do it. Thank you to everybody who's watched this episode, who's listened to it. Make sure to leave us a rating, review, email myself, email Courtney to let us know what you think. Recommend both of our podcasts to a friend, and I'll be back again with another amazing guest to share their story, their journey, and some things for you to think about in your life and your business very soon. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

Only pay for what you need at libertymutual.com.

Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.

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