Hyperlocal to National: Jonah Lantto's Uncompromising Growth Strategy

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I am so thrilled to have Jonah Lantow on the show. Jonah, welcome to Your Brand Amplified. Uh, we're gonna have a different kind of conversation than you usually do on your own shows.

I imagine much, let's hope it's much different. Yes. And let's hope you're never, uh, featured on any of my shows.

Yes, please. Yes, please. So you are the co-host and producer of Midwest Murder, the founder and owner of the Good Talk Network, which has a variety of different shows. You have a TV series, The Midwest Murder True Crime Stories. You have a lot of other projects that you do that are helping preserve people's stories. And you have something that's really unique to your show that I definitely want us to get into. But before we start talking about the live events and all the other things that you put into your storytelling. Let's take it back to the basement, right?

Let's do it.

Let's do it. So 2016 basement studio, you're converting it, you're in a career transition, you're launching a podcast. What was the thought process?

The thought process was that I wanted to have contextualized conversations with other people about ideas that cannot be explored in a 5-minute soundbite, in a 5-minute newsbite. That was really the genesis of why I wanted to start podcasting. And the only reason I believed I was capable of a conversationalist in that field is because a friend of— a friend of mine and I, when we would hang out, we would go out for lunch or happy hour, and the two of us would usually belly up. That was always our spot. And we would get into these deep conversations and people would always be pulled into our gravity. And that felt like a sign to me. And I was in that transitionary period. And because of that sign, realistically, that's kind of what pushed me in and I said, let's do it. I didn't have an understanding on the technological side of any of, of podcasting. And, and in 2016, although it doesn't sound that long ago, it was a much different landscape in terms of the technology available that is commonly— you can get anywhere now. You can go to Best Buy and walk out, spend $500 and have everything you need to make a podcast. It wasn't like that in 2016.

Yeah, it was not anywhere close. I think I actually had somebody on my show whose podcast I was on in 2016, I don't even know if I had a good mic. I mean, I did have a show that was like radio and Facebook. We had mics for that, but I don't think when I did that, I think I probably did it from home and just used my laptop.

Yeah, I was, I was such a novice. The first podcast we released didn't even have an intro. It just starts with us talking. There was no lead-in or anything, but we had the equipment and we were eager to get started. And that's really where it began in November of 2016.

Let's talk about what that looked like. That was the Good Talk, the podcast.

Yep. That was just the Good Talk podcast. And we were looking for any opportunity to have just deeper discussions about the world's bigger ideas and philosophy. And eventually then that worked its way into having guests on the show, and that snowballed into me talking about my podcast at a local coffee shop here in town. That conversation being overheard by another guy, a man by the name Josh Wolske. He would go on to become a city councilman here in Minot, where I'm based out of. But he overheard my conversation over my podcast. He drops me a message on Facebook out of nowhere and says, hey, I listen to your podcast, it's great. And I'm also a huge Big Lebowski fan because every one of our episodes would start with a quote from The Big Lebowski way back in the beginning. That's just how it started. And from there, Josh and I met. He's like, let me pitch you an idea. And Josh asked me if I was interested in doing what I'm doing with The Good Talk, but on a local basis where we would talk about community topics, we would have guests from the community, and, and we would really expand upon everything happening right here in Minot. And through that, I became so much more visible in my community, and I met so many people. We quietly became a champion of the nonprofit sector here. And over the course of about 4 or 5 years, Josh and I would have— we expanded to a weekly show, twice weekly. Every Wednesday, we would be live on Facebook, and the podcast would come out the next day. I mean, it was a lot of work, but that's kind of how quickly things snowballed from one idea to the next. I began producing podcasts for other people. And I became really known locally as the guy you would go to if you want to either start a podcast or be on a podcast or have a podcast produced. And so I think that in 2017, at least, I made a choice that was way different than what was happening in the podcasting world, and it was to, to focus hyper-local. I built my audience hyper-local first, because who cares about Jonah Lanto in Las Vegas or Los Angeles or New York or anywhere in the country? I'm just a guy in a small town, right? And everybody who is comedian or has a TV show or is an actor or whatever. They're all starting podcasts and people are naturally drawn to that. But here in my community, where Josh and I were visible figures and making a difference in the ways that we could, we built an interest level and it really, again, it kind of blossomed into so many other things. And so I really think that the idea that the Good Talk Network would be able to proliferate through the sharing of ideas to open new avenues of exploration for people, myself included, it all happened. It all, it all played out.

And that opened up a whole new income stream to you, a whole new job. I mean, going from the one podcast into starting to produce other people's, into having this network. That's amazing.

Thank you. Yeah. In the beginning there was no— when people say, well, man, how do you make money in podcasting? And in the beginning you don't. I didn't. I mean, I found little ways to make money, right? There was little small things that I identified back then, like affiliate links through Amazon and things like that. But for me, I started making more money when I was able to build like local advertisers, local sponsors, and then I did get some online sponsors, but it really came in when my production skills became useful to other people. That was, that was key. And even then, once I was able to expand my studio out of the basement, I've produced audiobooks. We've done documentaries. We've done a lot of different things that, that were these little income streams that allowed it to work. But in the beginning, I didn't know if any of it was going to work. I didn't know if it was going to make money. It was just a hobby when I started. It was just a hobby and I wasn't sure what my next career step would be. But when it went so well in the beginning, I said, well, I'm gonna give this a shot. I'm going for it. And here I am.

And here you are.

I haven't clocked in for somebody else since 2016.

Well, and talk about— was this your background before? Did you have a background in production, in being the voice?

Not at all. I— not at all. When I tried to go to school following high school, that was where I went to school for about 8 months out of— 8 months of my first year. I didn't even finish my second semester of college when tried to go immediately following high school, but I did want to go into broadcasting and production. It just wouldn't be until I was 36, a literal half a lifetime later, that I would make it there. But no, I did not have any background in technology in terms of production skills. I did have a background in event organization, event promoting as an entrepreneur. I worked— if anybody remembers Game Crazy and Hollywood Video, where you went and rented movies and video games probably every Friday night— I managed one of those here in town, and I learned a lot about the corporate world. I learned a lot about They had this campaign where if you could do this, it was called Neighborhood Marketing, and they would give you the tools and the resources and the prizes to run these neighborhood events and tournaments and things like that. So in the mid-2000s, I really became familiar with event organization and coordinating and marketing events then. And I ran a ton of cool video game tournaments. It was a lot of fun. Like, I was a big gamer in that time. I still am. But I mean, we, we ran tournaments and events with hundreds of people playing competitively. It was really cool. And then, of course, that scene kind of crashed down, and that was devastating, really. I loved that job. Young me just loved that job. It was so fun. And then suddenly you get a phone call and said, well, the company's going bankrupt, you don't have a job anymore. 6 weeks. And that was devastating. I'm about 30 at the time. I've got kids, trying to buy a house. That was tough news, but we made it through it. I managed to get on board with another store that wanted to open locally to kind of fill that gap. I ran that store here in town for a while. Up until 2016, when toward the end of that I was feeling like this is a plateau and I know I've got more. I know I want to do more. I know I can be more. And what is it going to be? I was really looking for that something in 2016 when I started The Good Talk.

And what's really fascinating is you started that before everybody else jumped on the bandwagon. I mean, like you, I had a show that was radio and Facebook and all these things. We didn't turn it into a podcast, which we should have in 2016. But I didn't start podcasting until 2019, probably like right before the pandemic. And then of course, 2020 is everybody's podcasting, right? And that takes us to you starting the Midwest Murder Podcast. So you were hesitant.

I was.

So talk about why the hesitation, because obviously that's a huge, this is a huge genre, crime, right? True crime.

I think immediately I did not have an outright interest in true crime. It wasn't something I was listening to. It wasn't something I was familiar with. And part of my resistance was I was naive to what a true crime podcast would look like, what it would sound like, how, how it all plays out. I come from this world of podcasting, from what you and I are doing right now. This was podcasting to me. And in my mind, I'm like, or what I was doing like locally with Josh Wolski, where we have civic leaders and business difference makers and hockey players and, you know, people making a difference in the community, entrepreneurs. And it was their conversations, they're these deep discussions. And I'm like, I don't want to have a conversation about somebody dying. I don't want to— I don't want to bullshit about somebody dying. Excuse me if we're not allowed to swear here, I'm sorry. But I, I wasn't, uh, wanting to do that. And again, that was part of my naivety. I'd never listened to a true crime podcast. I didn't understand the storytelling aspect of it. So it wouldn't be— Dawn Palumbo, my partner, was the one who pitched me the idea, and I had produced a different podcast for her. She had a podcast that was in basement studio. And that was kind of moving into the full-time studio. And she's like, hey, you ever think about doing a true crime podcast? She's a big true crime fan. And I was like, yeah, no, it was such a meme to me to like start a true crime podcast. And later that year, I would have true crime author CJ Wynn on my show Good Talk, Mai Not. And I would read her— I went on, I read her book, I interviewed her on the show. And I think I like to look at it as if Dawn planted the seed of true crime, then it was reading CJ's book and interviewing her on my podcast that kind of watered that seed and allowed it to grow. Because after that, I saw my place. I was like, oh, so true crime podcasts aren't just two people BSing about terrible loss of life and, and violence and all this sad place. Because I was already developing more and more as a writer, more and more as a researcher. I was starting a, a late-night comedy talk show here locally, and I was actively looking for more ideas because I had moved my, my studio out of the basement into a full-time studio. Space. So I'm looking for more ideas. And when you have— when you're looking for ideas, you're looking for people who want to work for them. A lot of people have come to me with ideas and not with the will to work for that idea. People that come to you and think, all right, I got this idea, go. And yes, I have certainly helped bring a lot of ideas to life, but it's a coexistence, it's a partnership, it's through collaborative effort. And knowing that I had Don ready and willing to work, and now I saw that maybe there was a place for me as a a storyteller in this true crime world. I'm a lifelong natural storyteller. And, and so I started to see the fit there. And Don and I would— we'd have a meeting at a local coffee shop here in town, Prairie Sky Breads. We laid out the backdrop, really the outline of what we wanted to do and how we wanted it to work. And we started releasing episodes in October of 2020, and we would do our first live show in January or February of '21.

Wow. So quickly, you've mentioned two things that really differentiate you in the space, right? Live shows, which you started with this podcast, and then even with The Good Talk, local niche, you know, local advertising, keeping it hyperlocal, really knowing your community and understanding it. So can you talk about, and, and obviously your podcast, your next one, Midwest Murder. So again, a geography that could be limiting, but also can be freeing because of the kind of content that you can develop. So can you talk a little bit about those choices of continuing to keep hyperlocal, make sure that that is something that is really important to you and that you hold value in, and then how that translated into Midwest Murder Podcast. And then what was the next step that said, oh, I have this background in live events, let's try to do our podcast live.

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Yeah. So with the community aspect, I think the— as the older I've gotten, I'm a father, I'm a parent, my kids are here. And I really— we became aware— I became personally just more aware of people in the nonprofit community and the value that the difference that they make. Make in our communities, whether it's your local food pantry, it's a crisis center, it's some— it's, it's those who advocate for people with disabilities. The list goes on and on, right? It's, it's the STEM organizations. These are the organizations that are oftentimes getting our kids into sports and getting our kids into robotics and anything like that. And I think that through the Good Talk— I never— Good Talk Mainat— I just never saw it as limiting because it was so empowering. And here I'm meeting all of these local champions, people who are champions for causes, and they're viewing me as their champion. And it just became like this really neat cycle of inspiration. And through that, man, I have been able to watch people from the, the foundation of their ideas build these great things right here in our community. And these were ideas that were first given light on Good Talk, Mainat. And it's really, it's a powerful thing. I think people ask, well, what charges you up? What sets your soul on fire? And to me, it's being inspired. Being inspired is what sets my soul on fire, and helping people be inspired, or even being a source of inspiration. That's what really sets me on fire. And that we built such a natural thing with The Good Talk. And also, when you have these people who are local and they're joining you on your show, then they're very excited about it. They're not the people who are making the 25-interview run in the next week. They're excited and thrilled to be on a podcast. So they're sharing it with everybody, and their family is excited to see them on a podcast. So you really, you build what is a super relevant and powerful and potent local following, and it's just as dedicated as any national audience, if not just a little bit smaller. And when we decided to, to launch into Midwest Murder, well, although the Midwest was only comprised of, I think, 12 states, of course podcasts are everywhere, true crime is everywhere. We weren't sure what the, what the response of it would be. It just, I just figured, hey, let's, let's do it, let's put it in this space. And it really the, the response, immediate response, was staggeringly positive. We weren't sure what to expect, but it was even within the first 2 weeks. And I had produced, I'd say, about a dozen different podcasts to varying degrees of success. And, and this one in the first month was far and beyond anything else that, that I had done. And I had done some pretty good stuff. Like, it wasn't, you know, it was respectable. It had gotten me that far, right? It had pushed me 5 years into the business. But it was awesome. And then for me, it was powerful to be able to, to be writing these stories and developing something that people would become emotionally enraptured by. Like, really, I work very hard in the layers of my stories, and for me, they don't play out the same every time. And that's not just because, uh, different killers and different victims, but you've got different geographical locations, the motives, the reasons, how long it takes for, for everything to develop. Some cases play out in a matter of days, others are decades. And so the opportunity As a storyteller, which is what I have always been at heart, I like to say that I think storytelling is humanity's oldest art form. And before we were painting on walls, or we were singing, or playing instruments, we were probably grunting at each other trying to communicate some story. And I think there's that, you know, around a campfire, I really think about that campfire moment where people get together, you're looking at the stars, you're telling stories. That's how I channel that energy at a Midwest Murder Live show. So, the choice to be Midwest Murder and focus on the stories here I think it really also came from the fact that we're flyover states and culture spreads from the coast, the coast inward. That's just how it is. There used to be a joke around here that anything that was popular in California, they were 3 years ahead. So the style here in North Dakota, that was the joke in high school growing up in the '90s, was that whatever was popular here now, well, it was cool 3 years ago in California. And so just knowing all that, putting it in we wanted to tell our stories. We wanted to make our stories relevant, and we wanted to put a spotlight, even if it is a dark one, here on the stories that happen in the Midwest. And, and it just felt normal for us. And also, it gave us better access to information as we learned and developed our ability to research and to tell these stories, because we knew that here in North Dakota, getting access to the criminal court files, it was much easier, and we could go to the local courthouse and things like that. So it was a natural place to start as we developed better research techniques and ability to get more information.

We're going to circle back to that. And by the way, I'm from Kansas, so I very much understand the—

right on, my fellow Midwesterner.

Cool, you get it then.

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

I do live in Kansas.

We are underrepresented.

Yes, very, very much so. Before we talk about how you choose which cases and the research intensity that goes into it, talk about that live event piece, because that is something that was in your background that you mentioned when you would do all the video game events and, you know, tournaments and things like that. And then What was that moment when you said, ooh, this actually isn't just a podcast, this is an, a whole live event series?

Yeah, I have always wanted to be hosting live events. I, I, once upon a time, I, I tried to have a music festival. I was young and naive to all of it. It didn't work out, but the idea's always been there. So even back into my twenties, into gaming with the game tournaments, and then a, a handful of three, three of my buddies and I, we did put on, uh, for about two years, a series of. Concerts here in Minot. We were trying to create an EDM, electronic dance music, scene here in town. It really hadn't made its way here yet. We threw on like half a dozen shows over the course of a couple of years. It was really cool, great experience. So I've always had that in me. And when I started podcasting in 2016, there was no plan for doing live podcasts. That was not in the game plan, if you will. And even when we started doing Midwest Murder, we didn't have it in our initial meeting, like, hey, someday we'll record this live and people will buy tickets. Now, I knew in my heart, and it was something I shared with plenty of people that were on podcasts with me or that I'd shared ideas with. I would love to sit and do a podcast in a room at a coffee shop that people were engaged with and listening. But I had more envisioned that as at the end of it, maybe we pass around a tip jar and if we're lucky, we get $20, $30, $40 in there or something. No different than a musician busking at, you know, your local music bar or something. Yeah, we would just be podcasters about it. But when Midwest Murder after really it took off, then there was a local bar owner here, a wine bar manager, and was immediately a big fan and said, hey, why don't you record an event? Or why don't you record a show in our space? And we're like, yeah, I've always wanted to do that. And alongside this, I was working on our late night comedy talk show. So I was also planning other live events at this time. We ran for about 3 years. We did a late night comedy talk show called Good Night, My Knot. And it was a combination of Saturday Night Live and like the Jimmy Kimmel Show. So we, we did skits, we had characters, we had guests, we had a live band that played people on and off stage, and that was a live ticketed event. It was so fun. We roasted the mayor, we wrote a musical. It was awesome. It was really time-consuming. That was happening alongside Midwest Murder. And eventually, I— you know, when you say yes to a lot of things, eventually something's gotta— you gotta move on from something. And so we— I'm proud of the work we did there, there. But as Midwest Murder was, was taking off more and more, I really had to focus energy on that. So when we did that first live show, it was amazing. It was the 7th episode of Midwest Murder, the Jack Scholl case. It was actually a case that a family approached me and asked me to cover it, and they wanted to tell the story of their, of their loved one because there was a strong belief that more people were guilty of this crime than were convicted. And there was hope that perhaps our story could jog something loose and, and maybe put some more pressure on these other people that were not part of that conviction pool. That never happened, but it was a powerful episode, and the live response was really, was really cool. We kind of thought, well, how do we— it needs to be more than the recording, right? What else can we do to add to this? And it just seemed natural that we would add the, the Q&A. And it's so funny the way things have developed, because in that beginning, the Q&A was like, all right, just yell your question at us, you know. And we did. That's kind of how it was for years. And then And then maybe 2 years ago or so, we realized, hey, why don't we get some signs on stage that have a QR code and people can just scan it and submit? So these, these easy, silly little things that are so obvious years later that you learn as you go along. I mean, even our equipment, we've upgraded equipment like 3 different times since we first started recording. And so there's been all these little improvements. But once we knew it worked in Mainat, then And my reaction was, well, let's go on tour. Let's push our network. I built this really— I had been networking now for years. I've been podcasting for 6 years, and I just have— I have a lot of friends and, you know, relatively popular people, both Dawn and I, in our region. We're not celebrities. Like, we don't come from some crazy celebrity background, but I think that we're both relatively popular because of our visibility in the community. She's been on a lot of boards and things like that and just has maintained a lot of good relationships. So we really had a lot of support through that. And through our network, we reached out and we found other places in North Dakota that would be willing to host, host us for a show. And we sold tickets, and we sold tickets all of ourselves through Eventbrite. So we did, we did our first tour. It was Minot, then Dickinson, North Dakota, then Bismarck, Fargo, and then I can't remember the little town in Minneapolis because we've never— we never did go back to that little spot. But this little town in Minneapolis— in Minnesota, not Minneapolis, that's the city— Minnesota the state, and then Grand Forks. It was like a 5-city tour, and then we made it back, and it was amazing. Holy smoke, books. People paid to come see this, and it was just amazing. And we continued to build and develop from there, build the, the audiences in each of these places and the relationships, the promoters that we work with. And something that is, is kind of wild to look at when I consider Fargo, where we— it's a great, one of our best audiences. The first place we ever started doing shows there is called DCR Brewing. They're closed now. The second place we ever started doing shows there was called The Hall, this awesome event facility, Fargo Brewing Company. I was nervous when we did that show. It was our first show with the biggest statewide promoter, and it was the largest audience that we had had to date. And I felt so much pressure. I worked so hard on that case. I was pacing backstage, man. I don't generally get nervous. I really don't. I'm not a nervous person. It takes a lot for me to be nervous. And in that moment, I was— my palms were sweating. It was a lot. And we— the show was phenomenal, and we nailed it. And we've continued growing from there. But now that place is also closed now. And it's just, I don't know, it's so, it's strange to look back at these places where we began and to know that we're still going and we're still charging forward. And some of these incredible businesses that we started at haven't made it through some of these tougher economic times.

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But that is a testament to your storytelling ability, right? And to the connection that you have with your audience that you're still here. And speaking of story, where does story start for you? Because you talked a, you touched a little bit on the research, your research, which I imagine is case files, court records, documents, interviews if possible, and other types of research to do it right. So where does the story start for you? Is it the crime, the criminal, the victim, the publicity? Is it families coming to you saying, "Hey, we want this story publicized"?

All of the above. In terms of how we choose a story or how a story makes it onto Midwest Murder, it's all of the above. And to be clear, sometimes there's confusion, we don't do any cold cases. On Midwest Murder. So these are all stories that have reached a conclusion, and that makes— for the most part, that means there's certainty in the story, that there's closure, that there's an end to it. Nothing is really left open. And so there are a lot of— we get a lot of fan suggestions, we get family suggestions. Sometimes it's just we will search for things that probably have us on FBI lists, you know, because we're looking for specific types of— maybe specific types of murders. I know in the beginning, In the beginning, it was a matter of what can I get the best information access to? And that came with files here in North Dakota and getting started, right? Putting these things together. And then as from— speaking personally, as my ability and my comfort and my confidence level with storytelling and research expanded, I know in the beginning somebody asked me, hey, are you going to do such and such case? And I was like, oh my gosh, no, that's a serial killer. I am not ready for that. That's too many victims, too much history, too much going on. But it wouldn't be more than a year within the first year that I I had developed a comfort level to move into that. I did find myself early gravitating toward female killers because I really— I— there was kind of an immediate narrative. And it's true that most killers are men, and most, unfortunately, many of the victims in these stories are women. And I, I kind of— I guess I wanted to flip that script a little bit, and I, and thus found myself seeking female killers and finding my way into more of these stories. And so the, the deeper that I— you, you to kind of expand that research pool of, of areas. And we've covered the entire Midwest, and there's stories as, as old as the 1870s and as recent as 2020 that we've covered. So there's no era that is left untouched here in, in the stories that we'll, we'll look at. Now, from a storytelling standpoint, where does it begin? It depends on the research. I, I take a massive amount of notes, like so many notes, and then I'll use my notes, develop myself a rough draft. I try to find what's my entry point, what am I feeling with, with these stories. There was a story about a hitman, and I was like, I was kind of wondering to myself, I was like, well, God, who actually hires a hitman? Like, really? It's not like in the movies where every, like, a hitman is just some covert John Wick assassin, you know. Most of the people hiring hitmen, all they can afford are entry-level idiots. And, and, you know, so there's this episode that kind of opens on this real-life exposé on on who is hiring hitmen and why and what do they kind of cost. And then that flows into the story about this hitman. And whereas some stories might just begin at the very start of a crime or maybe even at the very start of a moment where somebody who is going to turn evil begins that turn, there's— there are— there can be any number of different entry points. They look at the story that I just did this last weekend, and I ended up reading a John Douglas book for it. Now, I had the script done done about a month ago for different reasons. I didn't present it then because it was going to be too long and we had to drive after the show. And anyways, I ended up not presenting it. So I came back to this book because I saw more questions and I'm like, how did he— how was he able to get away with this for so long? And I'm looking at all these things. And so I read the book and I learned more. And in that story, my entire entry point, my anchor to the story, changed entirely. Because by reading that book, by adding— by answering these questions I was having as I was looking back at my first draft and rereading it, I got an entirely new entry point and anchor in the story. And it essentially— there was one person who felt like this person was evil. There was one guy who felt like this serial killer was evil, who kept getting away with it. And for 15 years, this one guy had that feeling and tried, tried to bring attention to it and failed. And nobody would listen. Nobody trusted him, even to the point where the killer convinced judges that this parole officer had a grudge against him and was targeting him. And this is a serial killer. This guy gets written up because he had a grudge against a man who would turn out to be one of the most vile criminals ever. But, you know, so like where a story starts like that, it's so fascinating. And that's— I think that's what I love about telling a true crime story, is that it allows me to tell stories in a variety of different ways. And it helps and allows me to put people in the moment, in that feeling, in that room with the smells. And yeah, it's a very transformative experience.

Even the way that you are talking about it, I feel like I'm in that room, right? Even though I don't know all the details, which is really fascinating because it's so much different than what you think of, of people reporting on a crime, right? You really do have to be so intentional about how you're presenting it to keep the audience's attention. So can you talk a little bit about that? What goes into each episode? Because you're doing all these other things as well. You also have a family, right? And then, um, but you're also, imagine it, I mean, even if you use AI to help cut down some of the research time, it has to take a long time to put together and storyboard and produce every single episode.

Absolutely. Again, it does depend on the story. Some we can, some get hammered, some you can hammer out in like 15 to 20 hours. Hours. The one I was like just talking about, that was probably a 50-hour research effort. And AI has helped with the research. I have no qualms with telling anyone that AI has become the best research assistant that I could ask for, and it has made my job much easier, especially with the larger stories that you really want the timeline accuracy. And maybe even I want to see some of the difference in some of these victims and things like that. You can just get— you get an easy assessment and an easy synthesized piece of information. So that has been helpful, that aspect of it. And in terms of what Dawn and I do, it would not be successful without each other. And that's part of the, the allure of Midwest Murder, is that we both have a very different storytelling style, we both have a very different reaction style. So in every episode of Midwest Murder, one of us has done all the research, the other one has no idea what the story will be about. Oh, so yeah, like when you— when Dawn's the one telling the story, whatever I'm saying, it's completely unscripted and vice versa. So in those lighthearted moments, because there is comedy, we just— we are funny. And it's funny because criminals do really stupid things and that's just how it goes. And it's funny because we have a dark humor and you need to find moments of levity when you are dealing with such dark subjects. Now, to be fair, there are episodes that are just really dark from start to finish and there is no levity. There are— there are some that are just— there's not even a blink of a moment to laugh. Most of them, for one reason or another, there's just— there's a moment that you can find that chuckle and you can find that laugh. But I think that is one of the key differences for us, is the chemistry that we share and the different reactions and storytelling styles that each of us also have. And we're kind of drawn to different cases in terms of the cases that we choose to research and write. We both have different draws there, so it just adds so much variety.

Yeah, it's fascinating because I think I've only heard some of the episodes where you have been the lead, so I'm definitely looking forward to digging into more episodes. I was mentioning to everyone before we jumped on to the interview that I'm kind of newer. I have a lot of friends who have been in the crime, you know, true crime era, their true crime era, I guess, for quite a while, and I'm relatively new to it. And so this is— your podcast is actually my first true crime podcast that I'm actively listening to. So, thank you for putting it out.

Absolutely. Thanks for checking us out. I wouldn't have been expecting it. It is cool how often we hear that from people, that we are their first. And it's even a little nerve-racking sometimes. At the live shows, one of the questions we'll always ask the audience is, "Is it anybody's first time ever hearing Midwest Murder at all?" And it's always wild. There's always people there who have never heard a single episode, and are at that live show. And we usually end up making some new fans, And it's, again, it's really cool too when you hear— we get a lot of father-daughters that are like dads that tell me like, "Hey, thank you because you give me a reason to bond with my kid. We watch you guys on Sunday nights, or we take you with us on the road trip, and everybody's happy to listen to it." And so knowing that we're a part of some of these little family moments and these shared bondings, and then there was another group that said, "Well, after every Midwest Murder Monday, we have like Coffee Tuesday, and we talk about the episode and break it down." and share theories. And it's just so cool that these extended ongoing conversations happen over something that we created.

Yeah. So it's like a different version of a book club.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's very cool now. And, and this is part of, I mean, over this journey, we've seen you transition from, I'm gonna start a podcast to now I'm a full-fledged entrepreneur with all of these different businesses that I'm, I'm producing other podcasts, I'm doing all these other things. Talk about that. And what was that transition like for you, if there was one?

What it came down to is recognizing where my skills could apply for monetary gain. It's quite simple. A, after all these years in the business and after everything I had, I had learned, and even just in being my voice, what can we do and in what different ways? So there is no— as me as an entrepreneur, I have income streams, and that's how I've— that's how I've— it's always worked for me is that there are a variety of income streams. So with Midwest Murder, we eventually— we became a TV show on Beck TV. That's a stream to the show. We have Midwest Murder live events. That's one stream. Merch sales. And then on the side, I do— I do any type of production opportunities, whether it's as a creative consultant, if it's editing, if it's people renting the studio if it's for recording their, their book, their audiobooks, or it's collaborating on, on other production projects here in the area. It's always looking for meaningful ways that where my, my skills can apply and I can get a paycheck is, is really what it came down to. And then we started doing the, the Midwest Memoirs project. And Midwest Memoirs is about preservation. It's about capturing your family's legacy and history. It's sitting down with your loved one friends and walking them through the oral history of their life. And this wasn't something that started as a business, this was just another idea. I love my grandma a lot, so much. We're very, very close. I love her stories, her old stories, listening to her reminisce about riding horse and just everything that she did when she was a kid. It's always fascinated me from when I was 10 to when I'm in my 40s. And one day it just dawned on me, in roughly 20— right around 2019, 2020, as it dawned on me, it's like, ah, Jonah, you have a recording studio. Why don't you just get your grandma up here and just sit her down and record these stories so that everybody in your family has them forever, so that your grandkids that, that you're in no hurry to have can hear great-great-grandma's voice someday and the stories and where our family came from. So it really just came down to me wanting to do that and have that. And I did that and I just sat on it. I still have it. Nobody in the family has heard it. And I didn't intend on monetizing that. I didn't intend on that becoming a business. It was just a thing that I did because I wanted to do it for my grandma, and I had the equipment. And then Dawn, of course, my co-host in Midwest Murder, she was not yet full-time entrepreneur. She still kind of had the day job, and we were doing Midwest Murder, and she really wanted to not have the day job anymore. And we're, we're on our, on our way to a Midwest Murder live show, and she was telling me about this, and she's talking about about it. And I said, well, Don, listen to this. Here's— I did this thing for my grandma, and I explained it to her, and, and I was like, maybe this is something that we can do as a business that other people would want. And she was like, dude, you have no idea how bad other people would want that. She's like, I want it. You know, I've already lost my dad, and I would have loved it to have that with him. And so many people who— the, the only voice that they have of their lost loved one is an old voice smell, and they don't have the stories, and they don't have the history, and, and they don't have sometimes the unspoken things that don't get said. And we just, we develop Midwest Memoirs, and we'll either travel to your family, or if it's somebody in the area, they can come into our studio, and we do a bunch of research about your loved one, and then we comfortably guide them through the story of their life, and then we deliver that to families. And it's so powerful. It has made me a better person. It has taught me so much about the human experience. That we could do a whole other podcast just about that. It's been life-changing. It really has. And I think it's anybody with the opportunity to get those types of stories recorded for their family, you need to do it. Not with me. Sit down and just do it in your own house, whatever you need it. Trust me.

Yeah. Oh, I couldn't agree more. My stepfather recently passed away and I wish that we had that. And from my mom, we have this whole written history in Thai of that side of the family, but I don't read Thai. So, you know, it's all these things that you think, have to think about with making sure that we do capture the stories, that we don't just have a whole bunch of pictures sitting in a pile where we don't have any knowledge of the stories behind these pictures.

Well, right. And they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and that's very beautiful. But what does that make the thousand words as told by the person who was living in that picture? What does net worth.

Yeah.

A million pictures. I don't, I don't, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. You couldn't have said it better. Going back to the podcast, you produced over a dozen original podcasts. Some of them are, are not running anymore. Some, many of them are successful, but what was a lesson that you learned from the ones that didn't make it? Because I think this is a lesson for everybody in what kills not just a podcast, but any idea that you have, right?

Really, the, the lesson that I've learned is there's no failure in doing. That is the key lesson. Every podcast I've ever been a part of, I wanted it to be what Midwest Murder is. That's the reality. Like, I wanted to have that level of recognition and that level of success. So the lesson is that ideas are fun, podcasting is fun, and doing is successful, and that there is no failure in trying, right? The only failure would be not trying at all. Like, and that was something I had to learn to accept, I think, a long time ago. And maybe, maybe I was able to digest that younger when I was doing those, those smaller events where you do a game tournament and only 5 people show up, and then for whatever reason the next one, you know, there's 57 people. And so that can be tough to deal with. So the biggest thing, the biggest lesson is the only failure is in not trying. That was for me the lesson. And accepting that things run their course, nothing lasts forever, and it's okay. And then also I learned in there that, look, some partnerships don't work out, and it doesn't mean that there was a burning of bridges or something negative happened. Some things just run their course, and that's okay. Like, I look at the Good Talk Maynard— like I said, about a dozen sold-out shows— and I know when I didn't want to go on with it, there were people in the— on the team that were frustrated by that. They pulled themselves together, and now they're doing something pretty similar on a different scale. So like, some of these things, they go on to live and, and to happen in other ways. So, and I, again, there's no, no failure in doing. And you never know who's, who's watching, who might be inspired by the things that you are doing. And again, I come back to that, that circle, that cycle of, of inspiration. And one more lesson to me is that belief is a powerful thing, and believing in someone and feeling someone's belief in you. So oftentimes, like, when I run the local networking group here, once a month I co-host, I do a live podcast with, with an entrepreneur here in town in a group. And I always tell somebody, somebody's like, well, what, what can we do to help. And what I like to say is that you can believe in somebody's idea, and that belief is more fuel than what some people will ever know. For entrepreneurs, when people believe in you, you can go far.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Wow. You've given us some really great gems right there. I love the idea of just, you know, trying things, saying yes to opportunities. How do you differentiate between those opportunities that are the right ones to say yes You have no way of knowing until you've made the decision.

There really isn't. You can weigh it, you can analyze it, you can pros and cons it on a whiteboard however you want. But no matter how much you analyze the possibilities, you will never know until you've made that choice. And that's, that's just the difficulty of any tough decision or of trying to push forward with any idea. So, that's really— that's what I've got for you right there.

Yeah. Jonah, this has been a really fun conversation. I'm looking forward to continuing it, hopefully bringing you guys out to LA to do a live show in the near future. What— set the stage for us in terms of what's next for you, for Midwest Murder, for the GoodTalk Network, and everything else that you're working on.

In the immediate future, what's next for us, we are— thrilled with our first booking for a Midwest Murder Live show outside the Midwest. We have been booked in Nashville, Tennessee on June 10th. I don't know when this is airing, and it doesn't matter because we're just so stoked. This little podcast that we started in Minot, North Dakota, a town of 45,000 people, in a basement, somehow we rocketed our way onto a TV show and now to Nashville, Tennessee. So what— that's the the next big thing for us. And really, beyond that, it's staying consistent, staying inspired, and connecting with our fans, and to continue delivering this Midwest Murderer experience in a meaningful way.

Yeah.

And hopefully coming out to LA to meet you.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's make it happen. You are really just so inspirational. I mean, there are so many great gems in everything you've said. So I don't even like to ask this question, but I do ask it of all of my guests. If you have a favorite quote, Macho Verse poem, family moment, motto? Just were other words of wisdom that you want to share beyond all of the things you've already shared with us?

I do. It comes down to, the only limits you have are self-applied. It's a Bruce Lee quote. And the full quote from Bruce Lee is, if you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. And Bruce Lee, my earliest hero, uh, one of the few people I really put those words to. And so I've always kind of followed his mantras. And the other one, mistakes are always forgivable if one has the courage to admit them. Another gem is a Bukowski quote that I carry near and dear. What matters most is how well you walk through the fire.

Yeah, I mean, I think we have about 10 or 15 good quotes or little soundbite gems from you. You're full of them, which is fantastic because you are a storyteller. And I know I'm truly inspired by this conversation because, and I hope everybody else can understand the power of saying yes, of just taking that step, trying the next thing, right? Being open to it because that's something that you've definitely leaned into. And who knew that you were going to be able to take your background, whether it was in customer service, in the world of corporate, in event planning, and apply it to the career path that you're on now. So congratulations to you, Jonah, and we will have the link in the show notes for the Nashville date in case anybody is in the area or just wants to go check it out, as well as links to everything else that Jonah is up to these days. Any final words?

Opportunistic collaboration. Say yes. And, and that's what it's all— half of the things I've done weren't even my idea. I was somehow just seen as the guy that could help make the idea happen, and then my passion gets mixed into it. So be a collaborator.

And that's actually how we were brought together, because we are both on this amazing network called Believe, and that brought us together. So I'm so grateful that they did. So thank you, Jonah, for being here. Thank you to everybody who's watching this episode, who's listening to it. Go check out the Midwest Murder Podcast and everything else that Jonah is doing. I'm a listener, and their storytelling is second to none. So, um, I think you'll enjoy it as much as I do. And with that, I'll be back again with another amazing guest to share their story, their journey, and some inspiration for you very soon.

Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

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