Leaving Corporate Behind: Amanda Foley's Journey to Soul-Centered Entrepreneurship

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Henry Cho's Hot Chicken and Wings. If you know, you Cho. I think of human design as a map of your soul before the world got its hands on you and conditioned, you know, and conditioned us to think we had to be a certain way. It's really like our authenticity at its most base level. And then I started to work with other clients in the space that were, you know, a lot on the spirituality side that were open to this. And I started using human design to help me pitch them.

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It's been a while since I've had a straight PR conversation, so I am thrilled to have Amanda Foley on the show. Amanda, you have Curate the Soul. As your firm, and I'm, I'm really excited to dive into what that means and how you approach PR. So thank you for being on Your Brand Amplified.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Well, let's start with your background. You were in corporate pharma PR, Johnson Johnson, GSK, Merck, before you pivoted to entrepreneurship. What was it that made you realize that that world wasn't the full expression of who you were? As a human and as a professional?

Yeah, so I spent about 20 years working in healthcare communications. So like, as you said, about 10 years working directly for big companies, and then for most of my time after that, I actually ended up in corporate consulting. So I've sort of had like 3 phases of my career where at one point I was just, you know, kind of probably having those inklings that I wasn't maybe in the right place, and I definitely was climbing the ladder but wasn't so happy doing that. And I had worked with a PR firm that was virtual back in like the early 2000s when that wasn't even a thing, right? Yeah. And so I became really good friends with the president. So I was their client essentially. And at one point, you know, she and I kept in touch and I had moved on to another company. And she always said to me, if you ever want to come work for me, I would love to have you. And you know, in your mind you think, oh, that's Why would I ever go to the service side? You know, I have this like amazing job. And at one point it, it kind of was getting real and I was like, let's have a conversation. And when she told me sort of like how they worked and what I could make working less hours, I thought, you know what, like maybe it's time to give this a try. So I did that. This was like maybe 2006, 2007, and had a great experience working on that side. So basically working for the agency. Same type of work, just being on the service side. And that was also good until it wasn't. And then probably back in 2020, I started to just feel like I wasn't as lit up by my work as I had felt for years before. And I think many of us had that experience probably around that time as well. So we just had a lot of time, you know, so for me it wasn't very different because I worked from home for so long, but everything just went on video. But we had always, you know, we were set up, it didn't change a whole lot. The travel stopped, which also made me stay very still. And, you know, I kind of just started doing all of these things. Like, I learned how to crochet and I had a vegetable garden. I don't know what it's— what the creativity sparked in me, but I started to think like maybe there's something else and started doing a lot of personal development work. And as I met people, they were interested in what I did. And I thought, what I do is so boring. You know, this isn't exciting. You know, I shouldn't say— it's great work in a lot of ways, but to me it just wasn't lighting me up. And I started to realize that there was maybe an opportunity. And I was listening to more and more podcasts that time, at that point in time myself. And I was like, you know what, like maybe I can do something different with this than a lot of other people are doing and work with these people. And so that's sort of where Curate Your Soul came from, because it was for me doing something that felt more like soul work. And then also working with these people primarily in the personal development and wellness spaces that I felt were doing their soul work. And so I ended up working with a lot of people that sort of take the practical but put their own really like mission-driven spin on it. And that's sort of how it was born. So since 20— over 2022, I officially started actually doing PR and like slowly let go of my healthcare consulting work and rest is history, I guess, as they say.

I think it's really interesting because when I got into PR was also from being a client first and working with a PR firm. And this is the early 2000s and similar story. And I was like, wait, what? I think I want that job.

I know. Well, they were doing the fun work, right? Like I felt like all I did was push papers and get things approved. And I'm like, agencies are actually doing the PR.

Yeah. So talk about that switch though, from the client side to the agency side. What are some things that people who are in the PR world get wrong and what are some things that they get right?

Do you mean like, like going from one side to the other? Yeah, it's interesting because I learned a lot being on the client. I think most people sort of take the reverse route, right? As I'm sure you probably found as well. And so it was, it was interesting because I learned from so many creative agency people. I was really fortunate to always have great agency teams. In my last role though, I found that some of the people I worked with were kind of just like to the the point of phoning it in because it's hard when you don't have new, you know, you're dealing with more of a hard news basis. It's a little bit different than like the other type of PR that I do now where it can be more evergreen. And during those periods of times when there wasn't a drug launch or there wasn't a big campaign, it was really tough to generate news. And so what I actually found fun on the other, on the agency side and the service side was coming up with creative ways to sort of like put unique things together to make it feel a little bit more robust when we were pitching. We, we never really pitched podcasts. Even as I was sort of phasing out, I started to encourage the pharma firm that I used to work for. I'm like, you know, we talk about Between the News all the time. Why aren't we putting these executives on podcasts? Especially the smaller biotech firms. There's a lot of really interesting personal stories as to why these individuals started these, these companies, whether as physicians or even like many of them, like parents that were researchers that pushed something forward. And I just thought, why is nobody doing this? It's such an untapped, you know, thing, probably less so now, although I still don't see as much of it as you would think. But I think I coming in from sort of like the, you know, from the client side first, I think I knew what was good and what wasn't because I would know how to go in and actually pitch a company saying like, this will fly. No, like they're never ever going to. Go for this. Yeah, yeah.

And I think that right there is one of the biggest things that, you know, become an issue because I've gone from one side to the other and back to the other side, from, you know, working for somebody who hired a PR firm for a publishing company back when magazines were a thing, to then going out on my own, having a PR firm, having a PR firm again, and then going into another role where I was working with outside PR firms and trying to come up, help them come up with stories and different angles and unique things to pitch. And seeing that sometimes the founder of my organization didn't have the same thoughts that we had as the people who are trying to help the PR firm get the information they needed as well. And so there are all these intricacies that can happen. I think that people don't even realize, and you know, it's, it's not one of those things where you can just snap your finger and get really amazing press right away. It does take work and time. Time and intentionality, and whether it's for radio or TV or podcasts or anything else.

I think the other thing too that I saw, you know, when you look at a 20-plus year span is— and I'm sure you've seen the same— like, how much has changed in terms of what's paid these days too, where, I mean, you actually could get television spots if you had a celebrity or, you know, somebody, where now they won't even take you as a pitch. It's literally, here's the price tag. So it's, I, you know, and even satellite media tours where you would, they would still have to pitch. Now you basically pay a flat fee like you used to, but it's not them pitching each show. It's who takes paid guests and then they just divide out the, you know, the cost because they don't have to pay for the trucks anymore. They used to have to pay for the satellite trucks. Now it's all on Zoom and they can, they just take that money and spread it out across 20 interviews or whatever it might be. So I think that's really interesting to be doing. That was sort of another reason why even moving away from traditional news felt aligned for me because it just didn't feel real anymore. And I think while there is disclosure, it's not disclosed, I think, in the way that most of the average consumers recognize.

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And I wanna stay on the traditional PR route just for another moment.

Yeah.

Because even in, you know, 2020, but still were able to get some traditional PR fairly well because of the kind of clients I had.

I feel like I was able to get some great PR.

Some was a little bit harder. It wasn't as— I didn't see as much of the pay-to-play, but, and I was, I was a purist, but now I've seen it change so much to exactly your point where, wow, most of the time you're not even going to get looked at unless they have the right story and maybe they'll call on you as a resource and maybe they'll use you or maybe they'll just use you for background or information and not include a quote. So what is your thought on the whole pay-to-play market when it comes to the traditional PR route? Is that something people should consider? Because I know a lot of people listening. Are trying to figure out the right ways to get publicity.

Yeah, I mean, I think it, depending on what you're, whether it's a brand or, you know, what, it depends what you're, what you're selling, right? At the end of the day, it could, the answer could vary, but I think if you want any kind of broadcast, you almost have to, have to consider it these days. An editorial is tough because, you know, especially if it's anything lifestyle related and it's not hard news. It's tough because you have to have affiliate programs. They want you on Amazon if it's a product. The editorial teams are so bare bones these days that it's almost impossible to get them to cover a unique story based on what you pitch. And so, I mean, I, I do like even today minimal editorial, but it's all through quoted and looking for opportunities that exist. And that's another reason that kind of pushed me towards podcasts because I also feel like these days it's nice to have those mastheads on your websites. It's especially like the type of client that I work with. And they're great, but they're not actually driving purchasing decisions or following. It's really, they're, they're sort of, um, like a vanity, not a metric, but you know what I mean? It's like a vanity thing that you just want to secure so you have it, but it's not even the backlinks aren't doing much in my opinion. Again, if you have a product, it might be a totally different conversation, but then there's a sort of a whole other layer that you have to enter into with the affiliate marketplace and, and all of that as well. So it's, it is tough. I think editorial is really tough these days.

Yeah.

Yeah. I agree. I mean, I'm actually pushing people to, hey, I know this person who can get you a piece in USA Today, but here's how much you're going to have to pay.

Exactly.

Yes.

You know what's funny? I don't even think of the— I get those emails and I laugh because I'm like, I'm a PR person. But, but yeah, I mean, like, I see that all the time, or I have people come to me and say, is this worth it? And I'm like, No, I was like, honestly, I don't think so.

Yeah. If you think it's worth it, because that's, again, that the vanity metric or whatever you want to call it is what you're looking for.

Great.

But if it's going to drive business, and that's where podcasting comes in, but also your transition into working with a different type of client and incorporating human design. So can you talk about how you decided, I mean, Curate the Soul, right? You talked a little bit about that, but I'd love to get more in depth about that. The human design element and then the type of clients that you decided you wanted to work with.

Yeah. So the way I actually ended up doing this is, is related to human design. So it's interesting. I don't know if we would talk about that or not today, but I'm happy to. And so, you know, when I was sort of in this, so kind of the end of which I didn't really get to the end, there was sort of a big catalyst, which was I had this client that was, I went from like, and I really only wanted to work like 20 hours, 20 billable hours a week was fantastic for me. And then about 5 years before the end, I started working with a big client where I was leading a huge piece of business and they didn't have any in-house PR. And so we were doing a lot for them, as I'm sure you can imagine, you know, like you're sort of lifting from both ends and not sitting at the table in a lot of, you know, a lot of discussions that are important. But they really did treat us like a partner, which is great, and not just a vendor, but it was really, really difficult on me because I was managing it like a small team, big piece of business, a lot going on. They were on the West Coast. I was on the East Coast, the travel. And at one point I was like really at my point of burnout. I was billing probably 60 hours a week, most weeks. And then they were acquired by a bigger pharma company. So, well, in some ways the agency, we were all like, oh wow, you know, we know what this probably means. So they already probably have a bigger, you know, bigger procurement contract with a, with a larger agency. But part of me was so relieved because I knew that it meant it was probably going to go away. And so I, I sort of had this catalyst where they did. And do I, do I take another project or do I take a little bit of time off? And I really, I fought with my soul on that one. It was like really one of those like dark nights where my brain was telling me one thing, but my soul and my body were like, you need to give yourself a little bit of time. And so I took about 9 months off and I did, I kept like some small projects, like just enough to kind of keep my to help me feel like I was still doing something and not just floundering around. But I did a lot of personal development work, and human design was one of the things that I found in that period. And when I actually booked a reading with one of the, the women that I follow, Emma Dunham Woody, who has had a podcast that was like pretty prominent at the time— this is like back in probably 2020, 2021— I did a reading with her and I was telling her like what I was thinking and what I was hoping to do. And the first time I had a Human Design reading, which wasn't even with her, I felt very seen. And all the things that I thought were wrong with me, you know, for not wanting, you know, I should have been so happy and everything on paper was so perfect with my career. And I just sort of felt like something was amiss. I always felt very validated in that, oh, like I'm not necessarily supposed to be doing these things. Maybe I'm not meant to be this hard charger like some people are that, you know, can just go, go, go. I needed time for myself. I needed. Introspection. It was just such a fast-paced life I was living. Plus, you know, with a family and I took a, like a young child at the time and there's just a lot going on. And so when I did my reading with Emma, I was telling her, you know, like I wanna do PR, maybe I'm gonna teach people how to do PR in the space. 'Cause a lot of people, you know, so I was doing my work and meeting, you know, in the personal development side for myself. I was meeting people and she's like, well, why don't you come do PR for me? I need something new. And at the time I was kind of like, like I got afraid because I thought, oh, well, I don't know how to do PR like this. You know, I came from this like very dry, boring world where we like check the boxes and do things from a regulatory perspective. It was almost like having all this freedom to think about how to do PR for somebody like that felt very scary to me in the moment. And she said, well, you know what, come back to me as you start to figure things out. She's like, I'd love to have you. She said, I'm looking to get more exposure and visibility. And so within like a month or so, I kind of just like took my time and thought about it. I was like, you know what, I want to do this. And even though I'm scared and I don't know what the results will be, I avoided media relations like the plague most of my career. I like to stay on the strategy and account management side more than anything. I was like, I'm going to do this. And I did. And she became my first client. And so I was learning about human design. And then as I was working from her and pitching her and her work in human design, and she's also a behavioral specialist. So she makes it very practical, which I. I like because it's not just, oh, I know all these things about myself. It's like, here's what you actually can do with it. It's not dogmatic. It's more like understand yourself, you know, come home to do who you know you are on the inside, which really is like, I think of human design as a map of your soul before the world got its hands on you and conditioned, you know, and conditioned us to think we had to be a certain way. It's really like our authenticity at its most base level. And then I started to work with other clients in the space that were, you know, a lot on the spirituality side that were open to this. And I started using Human Design to help me pitch them. And so I would look energetically, and I use the Gene Keys as well, which sort of gives you a little bit more thematic information. And so I would take that information and weave it into my pitches and actually find that the pitches where I did that landed more, especially with podcasts where they, they want to really understand the value for the audience. And they— I feel I always say people can feel you more than they read what you write or hear what you say. And I feel like just even me being aware of that information and feeding it into my pitches really kind of had this magical effect of getting attention. So it's fun. It actually makes it kind of fun for me because it adds another layer to what I'm doing. It gives me a little bit like breadcrumbs to follow.

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Absolutely. Well, and to backtrack a little bit. So for those who don't know what human design is, because we've had a few episodes where we touch on it, but you know, it's been a while.

Yeah. So I mean, most people are familiar with personality tests, whether it's Myers-Briggs or Enneagram. And so Human Design is a mix of a bunch of different ancient wisdoms. So it draws from astrology. So it uses your birth date and time. Some people like that, some people don't, but it uses your birth date and time and it uses the I Ching, the Kabbalah, the chakra system. It takes all these systems and synthesizes them together and gives you a map of what you essentially came in to learn, how your energy is meant to work, how you best make decisions, how you relate to other people. It can tell you so many things at a very high level, even just understanding your type and your, your authority, which is your type is how your energy operates. There's, I won't go into all of the details, but there's several different types that will work in different, you know, they are meant to express themselves in the world in different ways. And then your authority, which I think for a lot of people, like, I know you're an emotional authority, I believe, if I remember from looking at your chart, or we talked before, like, you are not meant to make a quick decision. So you're— you have the sacral authority, which might be like, yes, that very strong gut yes or no, but on big things, you're gonna ride a wave. And 50% of people in existence have emotional authority. I think we're taught to make decisions in certain ways. For some people, to sleep on it. For some people, it's quick, but that's not correct for everybody. You know, you might be told one or the other, or listen to someone on a podcast telling you these things, but even just understanding how you're meant to decide makes a huge difference. And what I think is cool about human design is, like I said, it gives you sort of things that we have always known inside of ourselves, but maybe didn't have words for. It kind of, I've never met anyone that's had a chart reading that's been like, oh no, that doesn't resonate for me at all. Most people are like, oh my gosh, like, how do you know that about me? But what I think is cool about it is unlike personality tests, you don't have to answer questions. And so when you answer questions for any of those tests, you always have cognitive dissonance where you're answering them from the mind, right? And so we're always like, well, what do, how do I wanna be perceived? Or how do I think other people see, you know, I never ever feel like I'm answering them like really in the way that I should. I, you know, there's, it's, it's almost impossible and I waffle and I'm like, but I could go this way and I could go that way. And Human Design with nothing other than your birth date and time, which from a scientific perspective, we know a lot about neutrinos these days too, right? So like people are studying them as these tiny particles of matter. So that used to be sort of a far out concept, but it's not anymore. And it's just essentially energy that's imprinting whatever's around it at any given time. And so we get all of these, you know, these readings from that moment in time, depending on where the planets were and what we, the energies we were So, I mean, there's so— we could talk about this for just an hour, but to me it is, it's been one of the most like life-changing things to just to understand some of these things about myself. And so I continue to study it. I kind of come back to it here and there, but, um, but it's fun. So for clients that are open to it, I'm always game for infusing their pitches with their design.

And this is my reminder to go back and look at my human design and weave a little bit more of it into the work that I'm doing right now. It's funny, I've seen a couple of ads recently for shirts that say, is it woo-woo or is it quantum physics? Or like manifested it but also did the work. And I think that's the thing is people have to realize this isn't all just woo-woo.

It's not. Yeah, right.

Science as well.

I think we're like starting to learn more and more that makes it less like woo to people. I mean, people think astrology, but I think a lot of people don't like astrology because they think it's like predicting the future. And this isn't that at all. It's literally how we're imprinted by a moment in time. And then my client, Emma Dunwoody, who I know we've talked about, maybe her coming on the show, she could do a much better job explaining it because she does what she does all day, every day. And she brings a very practical spin to it. But, but yeah, I think it really, it helps us get back to who we truly are. I mean, I know that's what it did for me.

Yeah.

And it's, those are those things that are really important because In your journey, it sounds like you started in one place and you kept saying yes and being open, and then the right thing came to you and you helped co-create that when you realized, oh, this is really what I'm supposed to be using all these skills that I have, all the talent I have from helping people figure out their positioning, their brand, who they are, how they're going to show up, and I can add this other element. And that to me is really beautiful. And I think I mean, you talked about, you know, last year you had a broken leg. I just had surgery and it's made me sit back and not go as fast. The things I've been like, oh yes, I'm going to do that. And then had to realize, oh, I wasn't really supposed to say yes that fast. I was supposed to take some time and reflect and really make sure that that's the direction I want to go in. And when we don't listen to ourselves, things happen.

It really does. What does they say? They'll either tap you on the shoulder or smack you in the face. Well, you know, and it's interesting too, even for me, if you look at my design, so like you're saying, like I'm a generator, so I need things to respond to. So people would sort of, when I put myself into alignment, those things started kind of coming to me more quickly, like people offering me the opportunities to do PR. And even if I look at my profile, and you also have the same theme of being a 6 line where it's, you've sort of have 3 phases of life. Like the first is this trial and error phase where you'd like do all the things and learn all the things. Then at 30, which also is your Saturn return in astrology, so tends to be a catalytic time, but. You go what they call up on the roof. And then that's sort of— I went behind the scenes, like working for an agency. I left these like very visible spokesperson roles at companies. And then from 50 onward, which I just turned 50 in January, it's literally sort of like the time when you kind of launch into whatever is truly next. And so when I even look at it from that perspective, right, like you start to be like, wow, like how would anybody— I wish I would have known that then because it probably would have made it— I would have been like, okay, this is supposed to be happening. Where, you know, at times like, why is this happening me. So I have a 6-line child, so I'm like, oh, I, I will be able to like help him through these phases as much as he'll maybe want to listen.

Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

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Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.