Mindset Over Growth: Rewriting the Brand Messaging Rule with Sarah Ashley

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So I like to think of AI as something that's going to just be around forever in some capacity. It might not be chatgpt in 40 years, but it could be something totally evolved and different. So how can I learn how to use it in the best ways possible and how can I just be open to being educated on it? Because if you are open to being educated on it, then you can make the best decisions around AI. And you don't have to use AI in every part of whatever you're doing. And you shouldn't, but you should be knowledgeable about it to a degree.

Step into the world of success with your brand Amplified. The ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host Anika Jackson and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies and secrets that have propelled entrepreneur, entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. Sarah Ashley, you have made a living with the written word, making sure that people's copy is fine tuned and I love that you do Have a little bit of a fun fact with something that you wrote that was in a movie.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite things I think I've ever done, actually.

Yeah, well, so tell us about that. And then we're going to backtrack because you did, obviously you majored in business, but I want to know, did you always think you were going to write?

Yeah, well, about the movie part, it sounds probably more impressive than it is. It's, it's really. So I got commissioned to write a poem for a spoken part in this movie called the Art of Love. And it's in the final scene where one of the main actresses, she's a poet in the movie and she's reciting her poetry at this bar in like a piano bar, whatever. And it's a bit of a rom com. So like her lover in the movie is like playing the piano and like setting the tone for the poem and she's just reciting it and it's the poem I wrote. And it's really just about like her character in the movie, her story, her interest, like kind of what she's learned throughout the process, like throughout the movie, sort of her, her character journey. And it was just really fun. I've never done anything like that before, so I jumped at the opportunity to do that. And it was so, so fun. And at that time. This has been a couple years now since the film was released and everything, but it definitely sparked an interest in media, like film type of media, like entertainment media that I might not have ever been super interested in if I hadn't have like, had that opportunity to be part of that, that script process.

Amazing. And I want to be really clear for our audience. You have a great level of expertise, but you have been in business for about five years and you, you did have other businesses before, but they were not the portal.

Right.

Copy company. So can you talk a little bit about that trajectory? Going from business major, owning another business and then you had some time at other companies and then you finally said, you know what, it's time for me to launch this and I'm going to do it myself instead of going the traditional route.

Yeah. So to backtrack a little bit, my story kind of started before I went to college. So. Have you ever heard of a website called Fiverr?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, Fiverr's super popular now, but back in like 2015 it wasn't very popular. Like it was kind of hidden. But like everyone knows about it now. But I got my start there just in high school, like Senior year of high school, maybe like doing some random gigs, projects. I did some really random stuff on there honestly. Like this was back in the early days when you could do whatever like, like I remember writing like signs for people, like just like creative signs and like sending them photos of the signs, like get well soon written messages, just, just very random things. But it was fun like as a high schooler, you know, just doing, doing these random things, seeing what you like. But I kind of fell into blog post writing like SEO because that was super huge at the time. Like 20, 15, 16, 14 was like very prime time for SEO and Google's algorithm. So got started there and it kind of just snowballed. Started doing more blog posts. I would do a blog for like $5 or like $10 for a blog post because you know, very beginning stages, like had no idea really what I was doing. But those people trusted in me to write for them for some reason at that time. And I continued this journey on fiverr into college. I did Fiverr, continued writing writing gigs on Fiverr throughout college and actually went into computer science as my major. Wow. So yeah, totally, totally random. Yeah.

But helpful now because of AI, which we will talk about later.

Yeah, yeah, it's so random. But I really loved computer. I mean I do love computers now. Like I love technology, I love all things like hardware wise computers. I'm interested in it, but got into the coding part of computer science and I was like, oh my God, this is a no for me. Like it just was not, like it was not resonating. I could not, you know, I just, it just didn't click. And I was really struggling with myself for like that first couple semesters in college because I was like, I'm so like I'm really interested in this. Like why isn't it clicking? Like I thought this was going to be my career path, you know. But after this first couple semesters I kind of realized that just because I was interested in it did not mean that it was what I had to do as a career. Like that was one of the biggest light bulb moments I think that have stuck with me from here on out is that I can have interest in all these different things, but it doesn't have to be a permanent interest or something I monetize or make a career out of if that resonates at all.

But yeah, I think that's where a lot of people go wrong, honestly. Yeah, I think you think you're interested. This has to be your career and many people don't get out of it so quickly. A lot of people go down that path and they get to a pivotal point, maybe that this is what they've done for their whole career. Twenty years later they're going, this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. And then make those changes. Right. You were very fortunate that you early on were like, ah, there is a difference between what I want to do for a living and what some of my other interests are.

Yeah. Grateful to younger Sarah for sure. For, for realizing that. And would I have been happy in the field maybe if I was doing something not coding related, But I don't know. I am happy that I went down the path that I did and at least explored it and allowed myself to explore that interest and realized it wasn't for me. And that's okay at the end of the day. And yeah, like you said, a lot of people do that and I like to share that story because it's such like a 180 from like what I'm doing now. And it's like just shows that you can change and you can. You have the power to pivot as well. But yeah, and I pivoted into business, which felt like a natural sort of path if I wanted to continue writing, which is what I ultimately wanted to do is continue writing, continue seeing how I could build a career out of copywriting or. I really didn't even know what copywriting was at the time. When I decided to change my major into business, I just kind of knew I wanted to write and just kind of went with it. And it developed over the next like, couple years as I was starting to get towards the end of graduating college. Yeah, just developing that interest and seeing where it goes.

Fantastic. So what led you to say, I'm just going to start my own business? I mean, you'd already been doing the work, right? So was it a natural progression after having getting your business degree to say, yep, I'm just gonna try this out? Did you come from a family of entrepreneurs or just you kind of always knew that was your path?

I've always been very entrepreneurial. I've always been very like self starter. Like, I want to do my own thing at the end of the day. Like, I really just want to build like my dreams. And it's okay to build your dreams and other people's dreams at the same time. I really want to build my dreams. And I'm okay with like, I'm okay with admitting that to myself, but I don't know. You. You may have seen this on my LinkedIn like before the show. But I had started some blogs back in the day like again in high school, experimenting, seeing what worked. I had started a few blogs actually and it was like in the height of blogging again with like SEO and I had monetized a couple of those very, you know, nothing to like quit, not go to college and you know, make 10k a month and whatever. But it was, it was enough as a high schooler to be like, oh okay, I'm like doing something. So I think that also nurtured my entrepreneurial spir my family. Not entrepreneurial at all. I think I'm the first person in my family to start a business actually I just realized that as during this conversation I've never thought about that before.

Well, so what was the reaction of your family to you going out on this path and not going traditional road? Cause I know that's a push pull. We see a lot right now where I mean I'm a different generation than you so. But we're, you know, we're told you go to college, then you go get a good job and you stay in your career and then you retire. And that's just not the reality for myself or for most people who are in the 20 to 50 something range. Yeah, I don't have much of a sweet tooth, but if there's one thing I will treat myself to, it's cookies. Especially from small artisan cookie makers who put real heart in their craft. That's exactly why I'm excited to tell you about Molly Biz Gourmet Cookies. This isn't your typical cookie company founded by Molly, a single mom from Alaska. These aren't just cookies. They're edible art pieces that have been featured on the Food Network, Martha Stewart Living, and even the Grammy Awards. What makes them special? Every cookie is handcrafted in small batches with the most unexpected flavor combinations you'd ever imagine. We're talking about cookies like hot mess mango and white chocolate topped with actual hot Cheetos for a spicy sweet crunch. Or the boss man with real maple syrup, crispy bacon, whiskey and white chocolate chips. And my personal favorite concept, the tea cookie Earl Grey lavender, white chocolate and lemon frosting that customers describe as refreshing smooth lavender goodness. Each bite is luxurious. Melt your mouth experience using only the finest ingredients. You won't find these anywhere else. I've arranged the highest exclusive discount for my listeners. 10% off your entire order at Molly BZ. Just head to mollybz.com discount yba FTC disclosure I earn a commission when you do use my code, but trust me, whether you're gifting these or treating yourself, these cookies will elevate any moment. Check them out. My link in the show notes.

They were confused why I would not go into computer science, which was a very lucrative field. I mean, it is still, you know, a lucrative field, but they were confused why I would not do that. And I think they, they were also very scared of like the unknown because they, like I said, they're never been in the entrepreneurial world. They just don't know and they don't have that knowledge to give them the reassurance because like, I know they want the best for me. But yeah, they were, they were a little bit like, why are you doing this? So definitely got some pushback but did not let that stop me. As you can see, I just kind of went with it and it did take a lot of explaining and just like, like showing them to that this is, you know, something I want to do and something that I'm going to make work and ultimately it is my decision. And that's the same for anyone out there who wants to start a business, who gets pushback from their family and friends and important people in their life. It's just really usually just because they care about your well being and they're uncertain. So they're, you know, putting that uncertainty on you. So that's kind of how that went down. Yeah.

Amazing. So when you started your business, did you bring clients that you'd worked with as a freelancer into your business? What was it like, that experience of going, okay, I said I want to do this in theory, but now in practicality I have to think about what Am I an llc? Am I going to set up as a corporation eventually? Am I just a sole proprietor for now? How am I going to get business? How are you going to make sure that I like the clients I'm working with and I'm getting the kinds of clients I want?

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there for sure. Yeah, yeah. I still, I don't really think much changed honestly between being a freelancer and to forming like a proper llc. Like in terms of the clients that I serve and like, yes, like systematically. Maybe some processes and things changed, but yeah, everyone kind of just still stayed the same. Working with me, it wasn't like a huge transition there. But yeah, you know, getting an LLC is very important if you're, you know, moving from freelancer to like more established business. It's important for like the tax benefits and security there and everything. So I'm glad I did that. I did wait a long time to do that. I did not get an LLC for, like, the first few years of starting to, like, you know, write for clients. Especially when I was on Fiverr, like, mostly working on Fiverr. I did not. I was just sole proprietor. But yeah, it wasn't a huge, huge change for clients, which is good, I guess, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, what is your sweet spot? Who do you like to work with?

I'm glad you asked that because I really love working with practical dreamers. And that's kind of a phrase I'm starting to coin now. Just like, the practical dreamers, because the people who are really creative but. And who have a vision but who are also willing to, like, get the work done and who understand, like, the importance of, like, the work behind bringing the vision to life, those people are just really fun to work with. I like to think I'm also kind of part of that group. So, like, I might be a little biased, but yeah, like, we do tend to. Is like. I don't know if you feel this way as well, but, like, it's. It's fun to work with, like, people who are very similar to you and, like, share your same values and it just makes it more fun. Yeah. But, yeah, practical dreamers.

Yeah. What kind of creatives or what kind of companies or organizations or people fall into that category for you? Because that could mean so many things. It could be somebody who has a creative business. It could mean somebody who has always dreamed about having, like, a cookie company or a bakery or painting shop or something like that, but I'm sure it can also. There are probably some traditional businesses that fall into that category too.

Yeah, many marketing agencies, surprisingly. And I work like, mostly with, like, like a founder, like a, you know, decision maker at the marketing agency, like a marketing director, or there's a marketing company that I've been working with for a few years who I just like the CEO of the company. And I just, you know, collaborate together, which is great because they're not, you know, a gigantic corporation where I don't know everyone there. Like, I know everyone on their team, which is great. And then other coaches, like creative service providers, like web developers, web designers, some. Some graphic designers as well, and then founders and like, maybe startup founders or people who are founding, like, for example, like a food and beverage brand or something like that. So it's a little bit all over the place, but kind of similar in a sense with like, their personality and just like, the level of collaboration we can achieve together. Yeah. If that makes sense.

That does make sense. And I do think it's important for people to realize, like, if you're listening and you have a marketing agency or a PR firm or whatever, we all need people because we're so into the work that sometimes it can be really hard to see what's resonating out in the market. Or is there a shift in the way we should be talking about ourselves, that somebody else with new eyes can bring that perspective to us?

Yeah. Being head down and just like digging in the work all the time. Yeah, yeah.

Or the cobbler with no shoes.

Yeah, right. And I, I can fall into that trap for myself too. Like, like doing blog content for myself, social media content for myself or what, whatever it is for myself. It's always easier to like put on the back burner, you know, and just like put the client work and things first. But you still have to do the work for yourself. And I gotta constantly remind myself of that, to be honest. It's like, maybe it's like on a sticky note somewhere. I have a wall of sticky notes with like little things that I've learned or like just things that I need to remember is helpful.

What has been the biggest transition over the last five years in your business besides AI? Because we'll talk about that.

Oh, wow. Yeah. AI is a huge one. And then the last five years, this might not be a transition within the business itself, but more so like a transition within my mindset and how I think about things and approach situations. That's been. I would hope that would change over five years. Right. Like, I would hope I would do some growth, but I've become more solutions focused and solutions oriented and more. I've developed more of my leadership skills over the past five years. So it's really like all of the inner work. I probably couldn't pinpoint a single, like, business strategy other than just all of the mindset and inner work that it takes to like, continue being in business for a long period of time. Because it does take a lot of like, mental work, a lot of like, soul searching, overcoming things like perfectionism. That's been a big one. Just like trying to get out of my own head and into my body, like, especially with how I make decisions. That's probably been a. Been a huge one too. Yeah, Just the mindset.

But that mindset is everything. And we can have so many ups and downs in our businesses and in our mindsets depending on what's going on externally or if there's a specific industry we like to work in what's going on with that if people are cutting budgets on things.

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I try to set times for reflection, and at least once a quarter, I do a. I guess a moment of reflection. I look at my goals for the quarter, I look at what I've done, like, and also make time to, like, ask those, like, questions to yourself, like, are you happy with what you're doing? Like, I actually have a note in my phone, in my notes app with some questions that I'm going to meditate on. Maybe tomorrow or later. Where am I happy with what I'm doing? Like, what do I see myself doing in the future? Like, what's my, like, vision, like, to try to be the most, like, energetically aligned and just aligned with my vision and desires and goals. And that's something that I would suggest other people to make time for, because it is. It's not easy to do all the time and just sit down and reflect. I know we live such busy lives, but, like, if you can plan it into your day or like, once a week, once a month, at some point, like, it's imperative to reflect because that's part of the. Part of the mindset. Work. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that's.

That's so vitally important. And so many times we do get caught up in the minutia and checking things off a list and not taking that time just to sit.

Right. Yeah, yeah.

So I know one thing that people say right. Is you can write all of our copy with AI. We can do all this great stuff with AI. What do you have to say to that? Because I know your header on your LinkedIn says, Make your message make sense in the AI age, and I think that's something we're all struggling with. I give talks on future proofing your podcast in the AI era. I talk to my students at USC about the different parts of AI that they need to be thinking about. So I'm really curious, see how you navigate, because I'm sure there are people who are like, I can just finish this so quickly, and I can, and it doesn't cost me that much. And other objections they may have to working with somebody who's going to be really specific about their copywriting.

Yeah, we can say a lot here about AI.

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I have a few thoughts about it and just kind of zooming out I guess. Overall, not necessarily about the copywriting portion, but just in general about AI. It's kind of like it's one of those things where you've pulled the rabbit out of the hat, so to speak, and how do you put the rabbit back in the hat? You really can't. So I like to think of AI as something that's going to just be around forever in some capacity. It might not be ChatGPT in 40 years, but it could be something totally evolved and different. So how can I learn how to use it in the best ways possible and how can I just be open to being educated on it? Because if you are open to being educated on it, then you can make the best decisions around AI and You don't have to use AI in every part of whatever you're doing and you shouldn't, but you should be knowledgeable about it to a degree. And someone said this a few days ago, I can't take credit for it, but they called AI like a thought partner. I don't know if you've heard that phrase before.

I use that phrase myself.

Oh, good, good. Okay. Glad I didn't take credit for it. No, I'm kidding. I'm joking. But yeah, I like to think of it as a thought partner. I think that's a great analogy. I do use it for like brainstorming things or like for doing random things like couple me organized lists. I was organizing like camera angles and like shot like a shot list for like video production like just a couple of days ago with ChatGPT. So I loved using it for things like that. And by all means people please, you know, use it and educate yourself and get into it. But for copywriting, kind of shifting from a writing perspective and just from like a general like creative perspective, how chat GPT produces writing or produces images is just what it thinks the best outcome will be. It's just a predictability model. It's not like a sentient being that has creative ideas that are original. It's literally just like some code that's predicting what to say based on like your inputs that are computerized in some way. I don't want to get into the tech, I dropped out of computer science, don't quote me on this. But in that same sense that it can't be creative, it can come up with original ideas. I think that's very detrimental to brands that use AI completely because you're not really getting anything original. And at some point it's just going to feel very rinse and repeat, repeat. And it's just people are going to become very jaded to like what AI can create. Like the writing that comes out of AI. It's kind of like how you see something over and over again and you kind of just like turn the other way because you're like meh, I, I know what that is. I'm like over it. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah. So in that sense, I don't like using AI for copywriting. It's just not very creative and original and it, yeah, just don't like using it. But if you are a very small business, you don't have a budget for any type of marketing, it could be good in the beginning just to get something like created and get yourself in some type of flow where you're producing content or some type of marketing. But I would not recommend it like long term if you're trying to build like an original brand. That's kind of my spiel.

No, I love that. I think that's all really important and it's just, it's something that I talk about in my business, but it's nice to hear it emphasized as well in another creative field.

Yeah. And there's, there's a lot of. I kind of keep my eye on job listings sometimes just. I don't know if you do that as well just to see what's happening. But I've seen a lot of AI assisted writing jobs and gigs come about now, which I think is kind of interesting. I don't know if you've seen anything like that, but I can see AI assisted writing or AI assisted creative development becoming just very prevalent in the future. Yeah.

Which goes back to not necessarily going to take every job, but you need to understand how to use it effectively to have jobs in these creative fields.

Yeah, definitely. You need to learn how to use it for educational purposes and then also just to make yourself just have more skills for yourself as well. If you ever get in a position where you need to look for a job and it just adds more to your skill set. Basically.

I want to talk about brand and positioning because of course you have some great case examples, including you had a customer product messaging that you changed that generated 12,000 in revenue in the first 10 days of a launch. You've gotten people to first. You know, Google Page One, you've written so many articles and done so many copywriting projects and worked with an incredible amount of clients as well. So talk to us a little bit about that. What are people getting wrong? Because usually, you know, we think about ICP and we think about like, what is the messaging for our different Personas and where do we need to be? And I think again, going back to that, we sometimes just get into our own heads and can't see what other people can see. That would make our messaging even stronger.

Yeah. What you said there at the end is basically what I was going to say. Like. Yeah, no, a lot of people just get in their heads about things and about their messaging and about their offer, what they're creating and doing. Just a lot of overthinking. But also, I say this gently. A lot of brands think that they're the star of the show and like they want to speak all about themselves and say, look at me, how Amazing I am. But really the star of the show is the customer, the client, what have you, the audience. And so it's, it is a shift that must happen if, if you want your messaging to actually convert and land and hit with people and resonate, it has to be focused on them because humans are in just naturally selfish. Like, like we care about ourselves. Like we want to know how does this benefit me? Like what can I gain from this? And keep that in mind. Like in any messaging you're doing, even if it's some social posts can be selfish where you're talking about yourself and I and people are really invested in the stories of people on social media. But when it comes to something like a landing page, product page, sales page, just anything very sales driven, people don't care about you and why your sunglasses have square frames or whatever. Like they want to know that they're trendy or they want to know that their stylish. They want to know the beneficial value, like the value behind what it is. Yeah. And that, that's something a lot of brands get wrong just focusing too much on themselves.

I think that, I mean we see that with. I'm just thinking about one of the easy examples is beauty brands. They talk about all the ingredients that are in their products, but they don't talk about. Okay, great, what do those do? And don't give me 5 million things to read. Show me. Right. Yeah, show me an example before and after. Or tell me about it in more descriptive words that like the quick elevator pitch.

Yeah. And anyone listening with a beauty brand or even candles or anything homemade. Made with love is not a selling point. Or you know, made with love, made with care. No one cares. This is something.

Yeah. I'd love to hear other things that you see people do or language they use that you have to kind of re. You know, re educate them or just move them along.

Yeah. Made with love, made with care. I really have become cringed out about every step of the way. Like that phrase, every step of the way or we've got it covered. What is covered? What have you got covered? Like what? It's just over become overused. That's my purse as a writer. That's my personal like phrases. Every writer, I feel like every creative has their own thing that's like makes them go get the ick. But this, that's something I would stay away from personally. If I, if I was writing the copy, it would not be in there. Just it's too overused. You can be very descriptive and intentional with the words Words you say and like your word choices and less is always more. So if you're trying to say something, like, if you find yourself saying, we've got it covered, ask yourself, why, What. Who, like, what. What's the point of this? Can it be removed and maybe replaced with like, something punchy or more. More direct? So, yeah, yeah, no, Lots of good advice.

And I know we're gonna have. We're gonna link to a lot of resources that you offer to people as well as you've gone on your journey and learned more and shifted things, and I think that's gonna be a resource. You also, though, started your business right after the pandemic started.

I graduated college during the pandemic, so I. Yeah, you were already doing it.

But obviously deciding to start it under Portal Coffee Company.

Right? Yeah, yeah, it was funny too, because maybe this is kind of a side note, but it was funny because when I was graduating, I didn't have a formal graduation. We sat at home and. And watched it be televised and my name just like rolled across the screen under my college of business. That was my graduation. So that's fun. But, yeah, I just kind of continued on through the pandemic, freelancing and then, you know, started Portal Copy Co. And yeah, since then it's been great. I don't think the pandemic, you know, really affected much, actually. I know a lot of, like, there was a huge transition with everyone coming online at that point. Point. So it was very. It felt like the Internet was very busy during that time. Yeah.

Have you had any challenges in your business since you transitioned to Portal Copy Company and piggybacking on that, you're one person, you can do a lot, but, you know, do you have a team? Are you thinking about hiring more people? Because it can also, I imagine, just be really difficult to try to manage every part of the business and everything yourself.

Yeah, no, it is very challenging. And that's something they don't teach you in business school, by the way, that you are the CEO, the marketing person, social media person, the photographer, accountant, every single title you can think of, that's who you are. They don't teach you that. Fun fact, but whenever I first decided to, you know, officially form Portal Copy, go and get an llc, do everything properly, I did have a lot of. I don't know if I would say challenges, but I had a lot of thoughts about am I doing this correctly? Like, are people going to think of me differently? Like, are people. How. How am I going to be perceived? Because I was kind of rebranding. In a way, I'm still me and like I'm still there at the forefront. And even now I feel like it might be time for a rebrand, like a refresh or not a full rebrand, but maybe like a refresh. I need to, you know, sit with myself in one of those reflection times and, you know, see how aligned I am. But that was definitely a challenge at first and I think is common for people to experience. It's like questioning like, like how are people going to resonate with, with this, with what I'm doing and what I'm creating? I have no idea. So it's just a lot of fear around that, that I had to kind of do the mindset, work around and understand that it's not a permanent change. I can always, you know, shift and refocus on whatever I'm doing. So. Yeah, and that's something I keep in mind today as well. It's good to just constantly reevaluate or just constantly look at what you're doing and what you could be doing better and if you're happy with what you're doing. And yes, I am a one person show right now, but still, yes, I am. But I honestly don't want like a huge team of people. I would really love to operate lean, which I think is very smart way to operate. But I could see myself definitely hiring like a couple of people in the near future just to help with maybe some like, you know, different parts of the business that I'm not good at. So I can achieve more than what I, I know that I, I'm capable of doing. But yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of cool stuff.

Lots of reflections for you to have.

Yeah, yeah. I'm excited for what's to come. I have no idea, you know, where things are going to go even a couple years from now. I do have some, I'm obviously have a vision which is important to have a long term vision, but you never know like what life is going to take you certainly.

Well, you'll have to check back in with us and let us know how your journey continues to unfold.

Yeah, follow up. That'll be fun.

Yeah, absolutely. Sarah, Ashley, thank you so much for being on your brand Amplified. This has been a fun conversation. I think we often don't take it back to brass tacks of like starting your business, Things you need to think about, how you want to move smartly through that beginning phase, what you need to think about and how you need to align your vision and the things you love doing. With all the other parts of being a business owner and also making sure you actually are reaching the people that you want to reach and perhaps finding somebody who can help you with that vision too.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Do you have a favorite quote mantra verse this?

It kind of changes every now and then. I definitely repeat mantras to myself depending on what phase of life and season of business I'm in. And I write them on sticky notes and they're at my desk on the, you know, where I can see them every day as a reminder. And if you're someone who gets in your head all the time, invest in some sticky notes or something, or a dry erase board. I have one of those too. But my mantra up here right now is get out of your head and into your body. And as an overthinker, as a recovering perfectionist and a overthinker and just someone who can get trapped in their head. Like, that's been a very critical part of like my mindset journey and like my evolution and helping me get in touch with like my natural decision making process rather than like the anxious thoughts, you know, that tend to run around in our head. So get out of your head and into your body and see how that feels and if you can make better decisions from that, that place of just not being in your head. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I love it.

No, it's a, it's an important reminder.

For all of us.

So thank you and, and thanks to everybody who is watching this episode or list to it on your favorite platform. I love having really engaging, fresh conversations with people who can bring us realistic things to look at in our own businesses. And just sharing your story, your journey is going to inspire people. So thank you again for being here.

Yeah.

With that, I'll be back again with another amazing person to share a little bit about themselves, their journey, their story, and some things that can be helpful for you to consider consider in your own business very soon. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of youf Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out@yourbrandamplified.com.