Neil Thubron on Delegation, Trust, and Breaking Through Limiting Beliefs

You know what they say: early bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over $120 with VRBO. Because early gets you closer to the action. Whether it's waves lapping at the shore or snoozing in a hammock that overlooks, well, whatever you want it to. So you can all enjoy the payoff come summer with VRBO's early booking deals. Rise and shine. Average savings: $141.

Select homes only.

The day begins at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by The Club at Boston Logan Airport. You get the clam chowder.

Mm.

In San Diego, it's tostadas. New York, espresso martini. It's 10:00 AM, why not? It's the quiet before your next flight, the shower that resets your day, the menu that lets you know where you are. This is access to over 1,300 airport lounges and every Sapphire Lounge by The Club, and one card that gets you in. Chase Sapphire Reserve, now even more rewarding.

Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC, subject to credit approval. So if we can, with our product, if with our marketing solution can deliver you the value you're looking for, and this is what it's going to cost you and be proud of that. Now we crafted this email and he was really nervous to send it. He sent it 2 days later, he got an email back from the marketing director of this company say, yep, please send the contract through. He just come, he phoned me up. He said, I can't believe it, Neil. I can't believe they said yes to this price. And it was because it wasn't the price. It was the value that the solution was gonna deliver.

Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Annika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. I am really excited to have Neil Thubran on today. Neil's one of those people who was recommended to me by an amazing podcast booker who always brings me the most high-quality guests and is someone I can always say yes to. So I know if he's bringing someone to me like yourself, that this is a conversation we need to have and that people will be really excited about. So Neil, I really appreciate you being here first and foremost, and I'm really excited to dive into your story from military grit to extreme endurance to global sales leadership, coaching methodology, and everywhere in between.

Oh, thank you, Anika, for having me on. I'm happy to go anywhere you'd like to go.

Oh, fantastic. So, I love it when people have frameworks and methodologies, so we will get into that. You are a leadership mentor, creator of the Whiteboard Value Selling Methodology. You've again led global teams of over 450 people, and you help leaders unlock through all the things that we think of, right? Not just traditional business acumen, but mindset, value-based selling, which I think is something we all need to be ever more cognizant of with everything that's going on in the world with AI and performance mastery. But, you know, you've lived a very extraordinary life, which I wanna get into. Army Reserve, 300-mile Arctic race, 30 days at sea. When you look back, is there a single moment when you realize that you are wired maybe a little differently than everybody else?

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think from a very young age, I realized I was wired for a passion for life. I lived in a very mediocre town in the south of the UK, uh, on an estate. And I was always the first person up in the morning from a very, from 5, 6 years old. You know, I was always the first person up. I was out. I was looking for my friends who were still asleep, obviously. Um, and I was always looking for adventure. So I think I was just wired from a young age to do two things. One of them is live life to the full and, and fill every moment. And the other one is I realized from a very young age that people looked to me for leadership as well and, and direction. Um, so I guess those were two awakenings that happened when I was still very young.

Yeah, that's definitely carried through throughout your entire career and everything else you've done. That's really amazing. I don't think most people have that. And I, maybe at 5 or 6, you didn't realize that you had those qualities, but looking back, you can see them.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. You were in the Army Reserve that gave you 12 years of some of the toughest challenges of British military, right? Experiences. What did that experience do that instilled in you that you simply couldn't have gone anywhere else?

Yeah. And, you know, I would encourage anybody to take some time to be involved in some kind of uniform service at some point because it does help you develop and learn who you are as an individual. And it helped me realize I was capable of much, much more than I thought I was capable of at that point in time. I joined when I was 23, so I, you know, I'd lived a bit and I joined when I was 23, but I was really bouncing along, mediocre career. I was, my weekends were playing, drinking, you know, not doing much, but, and then I found the military and it was just, it transformed the way I saw what I did in life to how I approached life, how I worked with other people as well as a team. And then when I went through Sandhurst to become an officer in the British Army, I also learned about leadership and then my career accelerated. and I got to experience and have adventures all over the world that I never would've had before. So yeah, I mean, it literally trans— that was one of the most transformational moments in my life was when I decided I was gonna join the Army.

Amazing. And it sounds like it took what you already had innately from the time you were young, right? The leadership skills, the need for adventure and to live life to the fullest. And it just gave you a few more skills on top of that to really hone in the person you have become.

Yeah. And to be honest, when I was very young and I was asked this, uh, not so long ago, you know, what did you want to become when you were a child? And actually I wanted to be a soldier. I used to play soldiers in the garden all the time, but I kind of forgot about that over the 10 years, you know, as I went into teenager and, and did other stuff in those years. So it just awakened. Yeah, it did. As you said, it awakened the person within me. And just made me, gave me the opportunity. I think that's the key. It gives you the opportunity to go and you don't have to take the opportunity, but it gives you the opportunity to go and grab those things. But it, you know, when there are these kind of sliding door moments and I pulled up outside the reserve center and I could have driven away because, uh, you know, it's an, it's a nerve-wracking thing to drive through the secure gates, sign on the dot, you sign for a number of years. And, but you know, when you make those commitments, when you step into those discomfort, that's when the opportunities where you grow, because all that, all the, as you know, it's a cliché, but all the growth is in that area of discomfort outside your comfort zone.

I don't know that I've, and I've had other military guests on before, or former military, but I don't know that I've ever heard somebody share the way that you are right now. And you're really painting a picture for us, you know, of what it can be at the best of the best. Yeah.

And cause the great thing about the reserves is you're, and this is similar to the National Guard in the US, you know, you're, you've also got a full-time job as well. And so it feels like, you know, your weekends are full. I was looking forward to my weekend more than I was looking forward to my weeks. And some of the, some years I spent 10, 12 weeks away with the military as well as having a full-time job. And I was getting promoted at the time into reasonably senior roles. So yeah, I mean, it was full. It was a very, very full life, 7 days a week. You know, it was half of it was military. Half of it was working in corporate life.

Yeah. Amazing. And of course you went from military service while working full-time to senior sales executive to a founder. Some people could say that's nonlinear. So, I'd love to understand a little bit more about, was it intentional? Did it evolve? Was it because, as you mentioned, you were still coming up in leadership in the military, but also outside of the military at the same time, and you were able to successfully achieve in both lanes?

Yeah, I, I think there, there is some similarities between the two because, and the reason I went into sales, I started in my corporate career in engineering actually, and on my first role when I was 19, when I left school, was fixing typewriters, golf ball typewriters, which most people have never seen. But that's what, that was my, but I realized very early on that, you know, I had itchy feet and I wanted to be rewarded for the work I did. And in sales, you're rewarded for the work you did. So I moved reasonably quickly into sales and then into sales leadership and so on. But the leadership skills you learn in the military and I was working for IBM at the time, and IBM is a fantastic trainer of leaders as well. Well, it certainly was in the '90s when I was going through it. So I was getting two sets of really good management and leadership training, one from the Army and one from corporate America. And it was a really great time for me in that growth trajectory while I was doing both roles. Yeah.

What were the connection points between the two types of leadership training you received, or were they completely divergent?

No, the similarities are, and this is one of the things I work on when I'm coaching leaders today, because I don't think it's taught as well today as it used to be. And it's really about how to delegate and the role of a leader or the role of a manager first, and then the role of a leader and delegation and helping people be clear on what their role is and what good looks like. Understanding that you need to give people the skills, the authority, the clarity, and then let them get on with it. And one of the things the ministry does really well is teach you that you delegate downwards. You don't jump over your sergeants and your corporals and start trying to tell someone below them what to do. And that I see that too often, especially with founders who are growing in businesses, is they can't just let their leadership team get on and do the job they're being paid to do. They want to jump in and get involved. And so the two things I learned in both those parallel careers was about, yeah, it was about delegation and helping people be clear on what their role is and what's expected of them.

I think that's an issue a lot of founders and CEOs absolutely have trouble with. And it's interesting because you've got this training in the military. I got this training through volunteerism. So as a volunteer leader of a women's organization, I was trained on how to be a good board member, how to lead teams, how to come up with community projects, how to partner with people, set the budgets, and let people do the work so that they also had the training opportunities. And it wasn't just me thinking, well, it has to be this way. It's the only way to do it because it's the way, or getting caught in the trap of raising your hand to do everything because you are in that position where you do know how to do a lot of different things, but you really have to focus. And I think that is probably one of the hardest things to do when you are starting a business. And even when you're probably, you've achieved some level of success, you still want to get your hands dirty, but you have to let other people do the work and you have to learn.

And the challenge that I find when I'm, and I do coach quite a few founders, especially when they're transitioning. So they might have been bought by a PE firm or they've, and they're transitioning to something else, or they're transitioning from a very small team and they're having to now bring in leaders below them. So that transition period, the biggest challenge is trust, is trusting the team below you to do as good a job or do the job that you need them to do. And I think that's the thing that coaches or leadership coaches work on is to try and help create the environment, create the right structure, the right management system, the right mindset to be able to trust the team below you. Hmm.

Yeah. So I wanna talk about another part of your life that plays into this and is also a little bit, you know, nonlinear. Paint the picture of what the Yukon Arctic Ultra is. 300 miles, -40 Celsius, which is also, I believe, 40, 45 is when Fahrenheit and Celsius meet. Having just been in -40 to 50 Fahrenheit in Alaska over the holidays. So what does that feel like? What does that look like? What prompted you to decide that that was part of your journey?

Well, there, there's, there's a number of questions in there actually. So, so the Yukon Arctic Ultra, which was, is a 300-mile foot race in the Northwest Territories of, of Canada. So it's just below the Arctic Circle. Is— so it's a 300-mile foot race in February. We started at about -35 degrees centigrade, and it went down to -50 degrees or -55 on the, the first night. But that was the kind of the end of a 15-year journey, really, in endurance sports for me, which started with things like marathons and Ironman triathlons, and then the Marathon des Sables, which is a 7-day ultra running event in the Sahara Desert. Then I was doing running around 100-mile runs around Mont Blanc and climbing 9 mountains. That's in the Ultra Trail de Mont Blanc. So each time I was taking on an event, it was a bigger challenge. It was something that was more scary and, you know, something I wanted to, I wasn't sure I could do, so I took it on. And so the, when I got to 2014, I bumped into some people that were had entered the Yukon Arctic Ultra, and I've always used vision boards and I had a vision board with a picture of a person walking across the ice with a pulk, with a sled behind them. And so I, you know, so when I saw these guys preparing for the event, I thought, I've gotta enter that. So, so I did. And, and much, much bigger, 300 miles is you just trying to get your head around. A nonstop foot race over 300 miles. It's, it's, it was almost, it's just too difficult to get your head around. But so that's how I got there. And what, what is it like when you're there? It's the cold is, is just something you just almost can't describe to people. So the first night I got there, I went out down to the bar with jeans and a, and a jacket on my, you know, ski jacket on and stuff. And wearing jeans in those kind of temperatures is so painful. You just, it is absolutely, yeah. So you, you know, clearly from your trip to Alaska. Um, so big mistake, right? So you suddenly learn that this is a really scary environment. This is, and to be, and, and actually that first night made me think, but like, how am I gonna survive with outside in these temperatures, most of it in the dark for 6 or 7 days. And most of the time you're on your own as well because, you know, the race starts and then everybody spreads out. So yeah, it was lonely. It was very cold. It was an environment that is so hostile to the human body, much more than the desert is hostile to the human body because you only have to expose a little bit of skin and you get frostbite. The dark, the silence, because of in that cold, there is nothing moving. There's no sound of any kind of animals or birds or anything. Although you do see wolf footprints everywhere, you don't hear them. So that's the, but then the other side of it, it's just so beautiful. It's wonderful. It's just, and you've got all this time in your head. It's like the perfect meditation retreat while you are, you know, plowing through the miles. And where else in the world can you go today and have that complete escape without telephones or without other noise and interference and, you know, no light pollution or anything like that. So, so on one side it's very hostile and scary. On the other side, it's very wonderful.

This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve, the butler, the spa. This is The Edit, a collection of handpicked luxury hotels and a $500 edit credit. Chase Sapphire Reserve, now even more rewarding.

Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC, subject to credit approval.

Instagram Teen Accounts: Automatic protections for teens. Instagram Teen Accounts have built-in content settings now inspired by 13+ movie ratings and limits for who can contact teens. Plus, teens under 16 can't change these default safety settings without parental approval, so parents can help teens connect safely. Instagram Teen Accounts: Automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Learn more at instagram.com/teenaccounts. UnitedHealth Group is simplifying healthcare by investing in tools to help patients know more and pay less. These tools help patients find providers and compare costs and save hundreds of dollars annually. Learn more at unitedhealthgroup.com/commitment.

What would you like the power to do? Keep getting up. There's more fight in you, so play on.

bank of America proud to be the official bank of U.S. soccer and FIFA World Cup 2026 bank of America, NA member, FDIC.

And let's just mention, you didn't just finish, but you actually won that race.

Yes. So the way I put it is I was the first to finish. Okay. And the reason I say that is there were 45 people started. The first night was brutal. It devastated the field cuz it got so cold and it was a pretty scary night for, and a lot of people pulled out. There was only 6 of us still going after the first night.

Oh my gosh.

So the, the attrition rate was huge. And then as the next few days went on, there were only 3 of us actually finished.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. 3 people.

Oh my gosh.

So I, uh, and I just ha— I finished first. I was, I was actually a day ahead of the guy behind me, which, um, I didn't realize at the time because I was, I was worried he was going to catch me. And, but I was— I ended up a day ahead of him. So yeah, it was— so that's why I put it is I, I was the one who finished first. Yes, I did win it, but it was mainly because there were a lot of people dropped out because of the conditions.

I don't think that most people probably trained the extent that you had with other extreme sports that you enjoyed and loved doing with your military background. But that's, it's still remarkable. You actually wrote a bestselling book out of that, You Can.

Yes.

Right?

Yes. Yes.

And you talked about the 7P formula. So how did that footrace become a framework for business and life goals? And did you realize when you had those moments of silence, when you had all that time by yourself, that that's what you were going to create?

That's exactly what happened actually. You just described it almost exactly what happened. So after that first night, and I was, it was, I can remember exactly where I was. Absolute clarity. It was about 4:00 PM in the afternoon. So there's, the sun was setting to my left cuz we were heading north. So the sun was setting and it was glistening on the lake that was frozen lake to my right. And as I was going along, I was just feeling amazing even though it'd just been a horrible night, really difficult, very scary. And I just thought, you know, I keep achieving these big goals in life. So what's the formula, the structure that I employ that I don't realize? You know, that chef that's wonderful at cooking the perfect cake, but they don't know how they do it. And I thought, you know, there must be a formula for achieving this, or I didn't call it a formula at the time, but there must be some steps. And so the next 6 days I had plenty of time to think on my own. I kind of structured the 7P formula for achieving any big goals. So that's where it came from. Yeah.

Wow.

Okay. That's really amazing. And then you had the presence of mind to write them all down, right? So I want to talk about what are the 7 Ps? What is this formula and which one surprises people the most when they start going through the process?

Yeah. Well, let me, let me, I'll just reel them off really quickly. So the 7 Ps, or the first P is purpose. Know your why. Be really clear. And when you take on any big endeavor, know why is this important to you? Do you put, what's it gonna do for me? How's it gonna help me grow? How's it gonna help me? What am I gonna learn? What am I gonna experience? So there's the internal reason why, but also you need an external reason why you need a powerful external reason why. So who else is gonna benefit from you doing this? And the people I've seen be most successful it's not just about them. It's about who else can we help in this situation. And for me, you know, I've always wanted to inspire people. So a big part of my external reason why was if I can inspire other people to push their boundaries, then that's my external. And the other reason I was raising money for a little girl who was born without ears and she was having an operation to have ears put on, a little girl in Uganda. So that was a big driver for me. And the way I describe purpose is your internal reason why will get you to the start line. Your external reason why will get you to the finish line. It'll keep you going when things get hard. So that's the first P, purpose. Second P is about preparation. And one of the things I learned in, this is a military learning really, is prepare specifically for whatever you're gonna do. You know, if you are gonna be doing an event in the Arctic, Don't go and practice and learn how to do that in the desert. So you need to prepare as specifically as you can and put yourself through jeopardy. You know, if you're going to be out in the dark, don't train during the day. Go out at night. Wake up when you're tired. Go outside when it's pouring with rain or when it's freezing cold and put yourself through that hardship in preparation. Learn from others as well. Anyone who's done it before, just be a sponge for any information you can get. And this is true not just for physical activities, but if you're want to start a business, or if you, you know, there's a, you want to buy a house or you want to do something extremely with your life, go and learn from others as well as do the preparation. So preparation is the second P. Third P is build a plan, because what will give you the confidence to step over the start line is you've got some kind of plan that's going to get you there. And break that plan down because 300 miles is too big, or making your first million is too big. So break it down into small chunks so that the plan feels achievable. The fourth P is pledge. So that means basically when you step over the start line, when you say, yes, I'm going to do this, there is no going back. There is only going forward. It turns your mights into musts. So you, you know, you go from, I'm not sure I can do this. I'm not sure I could do this. So I must do this. And that's the pledge. You pledge to yourself that I'm just going to keep going forward. The fifth P is a perception because once you step over the start line, you know the famous expression that no plans survive contact with the enemy. Once you step over that start line, things change and it's not exactly as you were expecting. And I had to, you know, I had a plan of doing 2.5 hours of movement and then 15 minutes of rest and then 2.5 hours. But I realized that was too long, so I, I very quickly changed it to 2 hours, 10-minute rest, 2 hours, 10-minute rest, 2 hours, 10-minute. And in the end, the last night I was doing 14 minutes and then 1-minute rest, 14 minutes, 1-minute rest, because I was so exhausted. So perception— you've got it, you've got to constantly be learning. Is this working? Am I going in the right direction? Am I getting the results I want? Uh, the 6th P is pain. So a pain strategy, because you know there's going to be hard times. So think about it and prepare for it in advance. What are the things you can do that you know are going to lift you up? You know, I had an iPod in my pocket in here to keep it warm so the battery didn't go flat. And I had this, uh, the, you know, the old headphones on with a cable. And I went through a real low one morning and then it came out. And it came on, earbuds went in, and I was listening to Walking on Sunshine by Katrina and the Waves. That came on, lifted me up, because it's one of those songs that really lifts me up. And so, you know, music is— so if it's diff— specific songs that might lift you up, that's a pain strategy. Or people that you could talk to, that's a pain strategy. And then the final one is perception— is perseverance. Sorry, is perseverance. Just keep going because you only ever fail when you give up. So just persevere and keep going because the success is always closer than you think it is. So those are the 7 Ps.

Yeah, that's amazing. It's somewhat similar to an online private school for high-performing athletes and students that I work with that has 6 Ps: passion, purpose, process, perseverance, people, and personalization. So I'm connecting you with that podcast. Please.

Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, thank Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I love this idea, but which one of those did people find most surprising when people work with you or just have read your book?

Yeah, I think the one that takes most time to work on is purpose, is really being clear. And it's not the internal purpose, it's the external purpose. Who else is going to benefit from this? So I think purpose. And then the one that most people are surprised to hear is pain. Is building a pain strategy. So that's the one that, you know, then we go, okay, what does that mean? And then once you explain it, it makes sense. Why wouldn't I think about that in advance? And why wouldn't I come up with the things that are going to lift me up when I know that I'm going to go through that tough time? So yeah, I think those are the two.

Yeah, I would agree with that. When you said pain, my, for anybody who's not watching this, I, my face kind of went, oh, okay. But then as you started describing it, I started thinking about the things that I do. Just to make myself move a little bit better. And so that's something that I think people probably forget about, but I love the fact that you've given us some real examples of what you can do, even just listening to music, right? And then all of us can take a stop and think about what is that for us in our businesses as well as in our daily lives, because we have pains in both sides, of course.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely we do. Yeah. Yeah.

So talk about your value selling methodology, right? What problem were you solving with it? And what were those salespeople doing that was costing them deals?

So, so this is a completely different area of work that I do now with leadership teams, with sales teams and various organizations. I've trained over 3,000 people now in the value selling methodology. Globally, literally in every language, I think now. So I was running sales teams and in the mid-2000s, the IT industry was the late '90s and the early 2000s. The IT industry was pretty much order-taking and then it started getting more competitive. So what we found was we were discounting a lot and we were discounting to win deals rather than selling the value of the deal. And value selling is all about Everything we do, everything we sell to a company or customer individually or as a business is adding value somewhere. And there are two types of business value it's adding. It's either helping them increase their revenue or it's helping them reduce their costs. There's nothing else. And I can, I've done this with so many businesses now. I can drill it down that at somewhere, if someone's going to spend money with you, it's going to deliver one of those two things. The only difference is that there's logos and pathos value. So logos value is logical value, which is revenue and cost. Pathos value is your emotional value is how this is going to make me feel better. So, but as a salesperson, you can't build a return on investment on pathos value. You can, you know, people make decisions in the emotional part of the brain, the right part of the brain, supported by evidence in the left part of the brain. So you need pathos. Value as well, but what you're trying to uncover in conversations is this product I'm selling you, how is that helping you grow your revenue, win more customers, sell things at a higher price, or how's it helping you take cost out of your business or avoid costs you don't want to have? And so that's what I kind of work on with companies is really helping them understand the value that they're delivering to the businesses they're selling to. And then how to build that value proposition and have that conversation.

And that really plays into mindset as well, which is something that you also talk about a lot because the race to the bottom that you're, you're discussing with this continuing to discount lower prices, that doesn't necessarily get you the customers that you actually want, the ones that will have the lifetime value that will really value what you're offering, your expertise, your software, your products, service, whatever they may be. But it can be hard, I'm sure, for a lot of clients, a lot of people to think about how do we value sell and how do we, we might not be the cheapest program or project, but we offer a lot more value in the long run.

So I'll give you a real example of what's something that happened this week, because it's not just about the value in terms of the price you sell at, it's also how you value yourself. And as solopreneurs, people like coaches or people selling themselves, And I work with a lot of coaches helping them to grow their businesses is they just don't, don't realize the value that they've got. And they've got to get that mindset of it's okay to say, this is how much I charge.

Yes.

This is what it is. So I was working with a colleague the other day who's, um, he's a friend, but he's, he's, he's paying me to coach him at the moment to help win some business. And he brought me on board because he's trying to win this company and he had a price that he'd gone out and they, they basically said to him, look, this is our budget. We went back and we said to this company, so just this solution we're providing, which was a kind of marketing solution, what would results be great for you that you would hope to achieve if this was successful? And they said, well, we'd hope to get 150,000 website views, something like that. Okay. And what would 150,000 website views, would you hope that would turn into in terms of sales? And they said, well, about £250,000, I think it came to. So it was a, it was a reasonable number of sales for the number of views. And I might be wrong with the numbers, but you know, this is, so the fee they wanted to charge was about 10% of the value they were hoping to get. So once we'd uncovered this, we went back and said, so if we can, with our product, if with our marketing solution can deliver you the value you're looking for, and this is what it's gonna cost you and be proud of that. Now we crafted this email and he was really nervous to send it. He sent it 2 days later. He got an email back from the marketing director of this company to say, yep, please send the contract through. He just come, he phoned me up. He said, I can't believe it, Neil. I can't believe they said yes to this price. And it was because it wasn't the price. It was the value that the solution was going to deliver. I won't tell you exactly what the marketing was because it'd be too obvious who I'm talking about, but it was, it was a marketing solution that, and he just felt uncomfortable about saying his price and being proud of it and sticking to it because he hadn't linked value to it. And I think that's the key is if you really understand and link value to it and just ask, yeah, but I can't ask the client what they're looking to achieve.

Yes, you can.

Why not? It helps them as well. It helps them go to their boss and say, I'm going to deliver $250,000 of extra sales and I'm only going to spend $25,000 on it. So it helps the customer as well. So that's a real example of value setting.

Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for teens. Instagram teen accounts have built-in content settings now inspired by 13+ movie ratings and limits for who can contact teens. Plus, teens under 16 can't change these default safety settings without parental approval. So parents can help teens connect safely. Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Learn more at instagram.com/teenaccounts. UnitedHealth Group is simplifying healthcare by investing in tools to help patients know more and pay less. These tools help patients find providers and compare costs and save hundreds of dollars annually. Learn more at unitedhealthgroup.com/commitment.

Wherever your family is headed, every mile should feel like part of the adventure. With room for 7, the 2025 Jeep Grand Cherokee is built for your whole crew. Quick morning drop-offs, weekend tournaments, and those unplanned sunset chases that bring everyone together. 4x4 capability keeps you confident through surprises, detours, and let's see where this goes moments. Because the laughter, the stories, and the everyone talking at once rides are the ones that become family legends. The 2025 Jeep Grand Cherokee, made for family adventures that matter. Jeep and the Jeep Grille are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC. You don't change the game without asking big questions like, what would you like the power to do? My answers motivated me to help lead the first U.S.

women's national team and bring home two FIFA Women's World Cup trophies.

Bank of America champions U.S. women's soccer legend Michelle Akers and everyone who dares to ask, what would you like the power to do? Bank of America, proud to be the official bank of U.S. soccer. Bank of America NA member FDIC.

Yeah, this is something I personally combat every day in my business. Yeah. Going, oh, this person doesn't wanna pay the rate that I know, you know, even if it's a discounted rate, but it's still enough. So learning to say no can be a big part of the game too.

Yeah, I think learning to feel proud of the number that you're prepared to put forward because of the value you're going to deliver. And, you know, I had a great coach coach me for many, many years, and she put a very big figure on coaching. And what it meant was two things. She would turn up completely different to a coaching client that's paying a really big fee versus a coach client's like, so she would turn up differently. The coaching client would also turn up differently because they're paying all this money. So they want to make sure they get the most out of it. So guess what? You get the best of both worlds when you, you, you think value. Yeah. So I don't know. So how do you overcome that when you have that challenge?

How do I overcome that? Recently it's been by meeting other women in business who have achieved more success than I have, because I think that's one of the other things— who are you surrounded by? And most of the people in my life are not entrepreneurs, so most of them have a job and they're very happy with that. And I've always had more of an entrepreneurial mindset, so I think I've discounted my credentials in certain areas. And I also always want to try, because I have a big background in philanthropy, so I, I also want to make sure that people have access to programs so they can improve where they're at. But then I've had to take a step back and go, you know what, I can't just say yes to everything just to help people because if it doesn't fit into my team, we have a great system that we know will equal success. I know that for, so most recently it's been meeting two women in particular who gave me the strength to really look at my brand. And go, oh yeah, I need to increase exponentially what I'm charging for certain services and not say yes to anything below that. And then I've also, I'm removing myself a little bit so that I have somebody closing the sales for me that also is really good at that and won't be the soft heart of going, oh, maybe I should say yes, even though I just need to be harder. And I think that's something else that can be difficult Maybe more for women than for men in business.

I think you've done me— there's 3 really great tips there you've just shared, Anika. I mean, the first one is surround yourself with people who are already achieving what you want to achieve. So it's the old analogy, if you're the best player at the tennis club, go and join a tennis club where you're the worst player, because that's how you're going to improve. And so that's a great— because if you're talking to people who are asking the same price you are, it just becomes a normal conversation then, and it doesn't feel uncomfortable. Um, the other thing you mentioned about philanthropy is interesting. And I was listening to a Tony Robbins, uh, video not so long ago, and it might have been a podcast actually, but there was a conversation about becoming wealthy and feeling uncomfortable with that. And it was pretty straightforward. He just said, look, the more wealthy you become, the more people you can help. And it was so such a true cause. So So don't downplay your value because by adding more value, by growing your value, you can then help more people in the long run. And I thought that was a really, really key point as well.

Well, and that was not on my list of questions to ask you or rabbit holes to go down, but I really appreciate you, you know, working through that and pointing those out. So, you know, we've talked about a few different things. Obviously, you have, right? Mindset, value-based selling, performance mastery. So, talking about mindset, what are some things that you see? Because you have, of course, you have the 7 Ps, you have whiteboard value selling, you also have fierce goals. What is that distinction and how does that help people with the other frameworks and help them really set intention with our mindset?

I think, I mean, models are always helpful for people to get to work around and get ahead because it just, a picture paints a thousand words, doesn't it? So models are really useful to help. And also, because I teach quite a lot as well, it's a good way of creating the process so that someone can take it on board and then practice it as well, because you've got a model in front of you that you can practice. So I find that works really well. I think there are And there are different, you know, the value selling based model. So the whiteboard value selling methodology, which is basically 5 steps, which is, you know, understanding the goal, understanding why it's important, understanding what's stopping you getting there, who's already achieving this, and then what are you going to do? So it's 5 steps. That's a selling process. It could be a coaching process. You can use it to run meetings. So it's just a structure for how you might approach something. And I've used it for all of those things over the years, and I've taught people to use it. In all of those different ways over the years as well. So I think that's, and there is an overlap because leaders that coach are some of the best leaders out there rather than, you know, leaders that dictate. So coaches, coaching skills for leaders is also something that's really powerful. So the crossover comes in that kind of space, I think.

Yeah, nice. And when you talk about fierce goals, what does that actually mean for everybody who's listening?

So you've heard the term SMART goals, specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, time-bound. So I'm a big believer that the achievable and realistic words should be dropped from the human, the human or the English language, because anything that you want to achieve is achievable. And I could find examples and I do find examples when I'm talking about this or when I'm on stage talking about this. Of things that are absolutely unachievable. There's no way that could be done, and it is. Or things that people have started that are completely unrealistic and they achieve them. So yeah, there are so many, so you only have to go on YouTube or on TikTok and you'll see some amazing things that people have achieved that they should never have been able to achieve with the resources they had, the physical ability they had, or whatever it might be. So Fierce Goals basically just is, is about setting those big goals that excite you, that inspire you, that are the goals that make you wanna jump out of bed in the morning and make you wanna put the effort in. That's what it's really, that's what it means to me. Nice.

Fantastic. Gosh, you do all of this. You've written books, extreme athlete coaching. right? Teams, individuals, speaking on stages, appearing, taking time to appear on podcasts, even with the time difference. You also are married with 4 children, 2 grandchildren, right? You also sail ocean yachts.

3 now, actually, 3 grandchildren. Yeah.

Congratulations.

Thanks.

And when we talk about building businesses, you know, there are many schools of thought. You talk about businesses that fund time, wealth, and lifestyle freedom. Those are things people always say they want to achieve, but then there's the school of thought of, oh, you have to work 80 hours a week to get there. I'd love to hear a little bit about your thoughts around this and how you help people achieve.

It's a really, really important point. So important. This, this is probably the most important thing we're going to talk about now is balance in life because we've only got one of these. We've got one of these and it's easy to lie to yourself that working and doing all the things you're doing at work are to support the other things that are important in your life. And it's just not true. You might think it's a yes, okay, I'm earning money because that's going to help my family. That's going to deliver, you know, that's going to mean they can go to private school, they can go on skiing holidays, they can do, and we can live in a big house, all that kind of thing. Yeah, that's true. But actually those aren't the things that you'll remember. Those aren't the things that are going to be most important in life. And I'm 60 now, so I can talk from experience of having I've lived through a lot of this and I've got it wrong, right? So I got it wrong many, many times where I was too focused on my work and I thought I was doing the right thing. But when I'm working with coaching clients, especially some of the founders and so on that are working insane hours and stuff, the first thing I start with is, I call it the bottom of the pyramid. It's the foundations at the bottom of their pyramid of life. And the foundations are physical and mental health, What are you doing every week to keep yourself physically healthy and mentally healthy? And if they're not, I make them put it in their diary. They, I call 'em big rocks, you know, from Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, right? So the big rocks go in the diary first, get the, and I don't, I don't care how busy you are, right? Because if you had an appointment you had to go to at the doctor's, you would find time for it. If you had to go do something specific, you, you would find time for it. So Put the big rocks in the diary and fit everything else around because you will find time. And so physical and mental, and then look at what are the things that you want to do with your family that you're not doing now? Because it's too easy to say when, when, when I achieve this, when I do that, when I've got the money, when I've got the time, and by then the kids will have grown up. By then things will have changed. And I was working with a guy couple of years ago who was being— I was brought in to try and help him get ready for his first C-suite job. And we were talking about— he had 3 boys. We were talking about the things he wanted to do with his family. So these were teenagers and one of them was 16, 17, so not long before university. And there was, you know, yeah, I want to go on these trips, I want to do this stuff, but I'm going to wait till I've got the money and I've got this and And I gave him a book called Die with Zero. And I don't know if you've read the book, but I give it to all my coaching clients. Really, really important book to read. And it basically is about living life now rather than waiting for the retirement when you've got the money. So you have— he calls it lots of mini retirements, but that doesn't mean you give up work. It just means planning those big things you were going to do when you're 60, when you're in your forties, when the kids can enjoy it. And this guy started planning those in every year. And one of the big things he wanted to do when he had the money was go to New Zealand. And he was going to do that probably 10 years' time. And last Christmas he did it. And it was because he suddenly realized it was that complete paradigm shift. The kids aren't going to want to come with me in 10 years' time. You know, let's make those memories, make those experiences now. So we started talking about this because of time and balancing time. So you have to start with those big rocks and then make those, because if you plan those things in, then you'll make them happen. If they're just a wish, a dream, then they don't happen. That's why it's so important to get them scheduled, even if you don't know yet how you're going to pay for it, or even if you don't know yet exactly where you want to go, but get it planned in, get it scheduled in, and then your mind will then find a way, your unconscious mind. Once you've set an intention, your unconscious mind has got a really powerful way of helping you find the resources you need to get to what's important to you. And that's how I work with people to help them with that problem. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that way of thinking. And I do agree with you. It's necessary. And I find myself going more and more towards that. But I've also heard that a lot of people in younger generations are taking these mini retirements often. So good for them for learning something that we didn't learn when we were younger. So what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received and who gave it? Hmm.

Yeah, actually, do you know the first thing that comes to my head when I say that? In my 20s, My father said to me, every time you get a pay rise, put 1% or 2% into your pension. And I know it sounds like really boring advice, but it was some of the best advice I was given because over the years that's got me to a point that's created some of the freedom that I have now. So that was great advice. I was, I've, I've never been given advice about living life to the full or being, you know, pushing boundaries or exploring the world. But I think that's, and I can't honestly think of much advice I've been given over the years, but that's the one thing that comes to mind is just start. And I guess you could apply it to anything, start early and make small investments and it will pay off in the long run. Nice. Yeah.

When we talk about your mantra and we talked about earlier, right? You make sure that you make every moment count. Is there any other piece of advice, any phrase, family motto?

So I'm a massive believer in you can achieve anything in life that you want to achieve if you want to achieve it. So don't let your left brain, you know, the logical part of the brain interfere, or the monkey brain, or whatever you want to call it, interfere with your dreams. Because allow yourself that time to, this, you know, I was, I was coaching someone the other morning and they said, I've got this dream about going to different countries and different workshops and teaching this and teaching that. So just pause for a second, right? Let's just make that vivid. Just tell me what that would be like. How many people in a class? What colors would it be? What towns are you going to visit? Make this, and then, and just, let's just say, you know, I know, I know you're not going to be able to, but if you could achieve it, what might be the first step you could take? And so, and then he suddenly started realizing, actually, do you know what? This isn't just a crazy dream. I could achieve this. It might take 5 years, 10 years, but if I take some small steps now and make the right, take the right actions now. So I think that's the best advice I could give anyone is those dreams that pop into your head, just let them percolate a bit and make them a bit more real because the chances are that you can make that happen. Nice.

Amazing. That's such a great thought to end on. Neal, I've really enjoyed our conversation. I need to pick up a copy of your book and follow you on all the things. Of course, what is the best source of truth for people to connect with you and learn all about the things that you do?

Yeah, so, so my surname's quite unusual. So nealthubron.com, so T-H-U-B-R-O-N.com. Neilthubron.com is the best place to find me. You can find the book, You Can, and the value selling book on Amazon as well. But, and you can connect with me on social media. So LinkedIn saying Neil Thubron. So yeah, and please do connect. I love connecting with people and finding out what they're up to.

Yeah. Amazing. Well, I know I've gotten a lot out of our conversation, really good advice, inspiration, and encouragement for some of the things that I have as goals. And I always love it when I can realize in the moment that I'm learning, because, and also when I listen back, I'll be taking more notes than the ones I was taking during this interview. So thank you to Neil, and thank you to everybody who is watching this episode or listening to it on your favorite platform. Please leave us a rating review. Let us know what you think so that we can deliver more great content to you. I'll be back again in a couple days with another amazing guest to share their story and their journey. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve, the butler who knows your name. This is the robe, the view, The steam from your morning coffee. This is the complimentary breakfast on the balcony. The beach with no one else on it. This is The Edit, a collection of handpicked luxury hotels you can access with Chase Sapphire Reserve and a $500 Edit credit that gets you closer to all of it. Chase Sapphire Reserve, now even more rewarding.

Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, any member FDIC subject to credit approval.

Head to Whole Foods Market for savings on zesty flavors. It's the Cocina Latina event. With yellow sale signs throughout the store. Check out the meat department for marinated skirt steak with no antibiotics ever, and explore delicious weeknight shortcuts with a variety of 365 brand simmer sauces, rice, and beans at wallet-happy prices. Liven things up in produce with fresh salsa and guacamole. Save during the Cocina Latina event at Whole Foods Market. Few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports. And nothing brings us together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBCUniversal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Xfinity and Peacock, Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps onto the world stage, we're not just watching, we're cheering together. This winter, we're all on the same team. Comcast, proud partner of Team USA.

You know what I could really go for right now? Literally anything that comes in a McDonald's carton, wrapper, or bag. Or a McDonald's cup. Yes, any of those items should do it.

We've got your cravings covered. Now stop in for the Flaky Filet-O-Fish, the Crispy Snack Wrap, or a large fries for just $2.99. Limited time only. Price and participation may vary.

Offer.

Shopping at Burlington feels like a dream come true, and so do the prices.

Gorgeous!

Wow, beautiful!

That's really pretty.

Oh, hi. Sorry, I was just imagining all the places I could wear these dresses.

Oh, not a problem.

You're just experiencing what it feels like to shop at Burlington.

You just have to see it to believe it. Should I? Oh yeah, you have to get that.

And that? And this one too? You know what? Fill up your cart!

At these prices, you can just get 'em all. Burlington. Deals. Brands.

Wow.