Part Two: Transforming Founder Pitches Into Compelling Market Narratives with Carl Fudge

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Any TV show you watch, you know, you're going to make a decision about whether that's worth watching based on what the first couple of minutes are like. Same thing with pitches. And in this attention-starved economy, where we're always on our scroll, you know, always looking at feeds of LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok and God knows what, right? Like, we're constantly splitting up our attention to these very small microbites. And we make decisions quickly about what's worth listening to and what isn't.

Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the The ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Annika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. And this is something that a lot of brands get wrong in general, whether they're trying to tell their story online, whether they're trying to get new donors, financiers, whatever the case may be, is they go to the, all the different things in the product, like you mentioned with computers, the RAM, the gigabytes. So they talk about, we have this product and this product and this product, instead of talking about the benefits to the person who's listening. With tech specifically, and AI, as you mentioned, there are new AI products coming out every day. I know that if I just put a really generic thing into an LLM, I'm going to get a sea of sameness response that any, that's very generic. Right. I know I need to tailor it. So what makes the difference between a really good tech pitch in this day and age versus one that's not going to hit the mark because 5 people are coming out with the same kind of product or the same case at the same time?

Absolutely. Well, the analogy to what you just said around marketing based on the features of your product versus the benefits, the clear analogy in VC pitching is founders that are pitching the quality of their technology versus the outcomes that they can generate for an investor. So it's a very, very clear analogy to me. An investor's job is to make a great return for their fund. And ideally they're looking to find that diamond in the rough, that needle in the haystack company that is going to be that fund returner, right? Meaning that if they have a $100 million fund, their $2 million investment in your company might somehow be worth $100 million once they go public, in which case They have returned that entire fund in just one investment, right? And so when you think about it that way, you have to make the case that you are building an absolutely remarkable company, not an average company, not a solid company, not one that is going to, you know, be profitable and stick around for a long time, like a truly remarkable company. And the truth is, is that there's no clear evidence that that's the case, right? Because you are in sort of the first inning of this company's journey. And so you are talking about a game of belief. You are talking about making a case that your vision is likely to be true one day. And so if you don't have a massive amount of data, you have to have a very clear story. Now you can still use evidence to make that story sound more realistic, but I think that the best ones combine that creativity and mastery of narrative, painting a picture about the future of the world, right? Like, I worked with this company that told investors that one day we are all going to have robots in our homes, right? To some people, that sounds absolutely ridiculous, but when you think about it, you know, there was a world where we did all of our dishes by hand, and then we had a dishwasher, and dishwasher is almost like a robot for your dishes, right? Yeah. You know, we have smart homes, we have Teslas and cars that drive themselves. You say, okay, well, actually there's a few things there that make this sound a a little bit more believable. And then you think about too, I mean, how do we want to spend our time as humans on this earth? Like, we have more of a belief and understanding now that our time is very, very limited, right? So how do we want to spend our time? Do we want to spend it doing chores, doing the dishes, doing our ironing, sweeping up the floor? Are we designed to be doing chores? Are we designed to be living our lives, spending time with family, learning, traveling, experiencing the richness of life on this planet, right? So you start to say, well, actually, there is a human need to have a sort of automated automated machine that actually starts to do these chores for you, these repeatable tasks. And oh, by the way, we have had this major technical breakthrough where now we can mechanically create things that look and function like hands. And you think about the millions of nerves and receptors and movements and grips and positions that I have. That previously was not really achievable by robotics. And so all of a sudden, you're starting to make this case that, hey, this future isn't so ridiculous. It's actually quite believable. And so you started to kind of hook me emotionally. You started to hook my art. And then you start to pair that with the data around the market size and around how, oh, we've got this really interesting supply chain to create these parts in a cost-effective way. And so really, the best pitches paint a very inspiring and compelling vision of the future that starts to change your mind, that starts to have you believe in a different version of reality to one that exists currently, and pairs that with some very thoughtful business logic about why, if that version of reality is true, this has to be an incredible business opportunity for you as an investor. That's what the best ones do versus, hey, I can make this cool robot, has all these features, and, you know, we think we can make a good— like, you know, there's no emotion. So I think that's what the best ones do. They pair, they convince the heart and they convince the head. They pair the beautiful storytelling with logic and the evidence and the data as well.

And what's so funny, I'm thinking about some different AI conferences I went to last year and the different robots that they had, and they were like, They're more like, oh cool, let me take a picture with this robot. But there was no storytelling about the best use cases and what this will really help in our lives. Whereas I think about the little Coco delivery robots. I live in a suburb of Los Angeles, so we don't have them here, but I recently had food delivered to a friend. A friend passed away, so food delivered to her husband and their son. And I didn't realize when I was ordering from a local restaurant that a Koko robot, you know, was gonna deliver, but it made sense for where they live in the— because in the city, right? And then it turned out, you know, I'm not close to them. So he calls me, what's the code? I'm like, I don't know what's the code. And then I've, you know, finally found the place where it's like, oh, I can just unlock on my phone. So I just had to push this one thing on my phone, it'll unlock and he has his food. Somebody had to think about that, had to think about the fact you might be getting delivery for somebody else. Right? But to me, that was a really great example of seeing the story in action. Because usually the stories you see on social are like, oh, the two robots, they can't get past each other. They're trying to navigate through this water or whatever. But that was like, this is why this is such a great tool. It's not just about the ease. Yes, it's about ease of delivery. Yes, it's about not having to park or find parking in high-density areas. But it's also that story to me of how I was able to help my friend's husband. Was what made the impact for me.

But think about what you've just done there, right? Like, this wasn't even your personal lived experience, right? So, but like, it's almost like you did live it because of how visceral it is to you. Think about telling that story or even showing it or showing a video versus you can have a bullet on a slide saying, you know, delivery robot penetration in the United States market right now is 0.001%. Okay, well, how convincing is that? You're like, okay, well, that's just so stupid. Who cares then if no one's using it versus Hey, I saw this in action and it blew my mind and here's why, and I can see the future. It's just a very, very different mechanism of making a point, and they just really light up different parts of your brain. And the latter one, the story version, lights up more parts, gets you more excited, makes you feel more emotional, more engaged, and that's why it's so powerful.

Yeah. For anybody who's not watching this episode, we both have these big smiles on our faces, and my energy level went up a little bit as I was telling this story.

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So, Karl, how hard is it to convince some of the founders that they need to incorporate this type of storytelling into their decks when I'm sure they're used to a more traditional mindset, you know?

Yeah. Well, it's quite hard, I must say. I mean, that, that's why you're not seeing me on CNBC. That's why I haven't retired. I don't have a mansion in Beverly Hills. It's still somewhat new thinking. I think we, you know, and of course there's some people who are absolutely bought in. We see investors who say, Carl, We saw these 3 great decks and we were asking who the heck made them. And then we found out that it was you. And we were like, that's amazing. We need to talk to you. And they said, not just were they great, but they said this work actually materially adds enterprise value to these startups. You know, if you can help them raise, raise at a higher valuation, raise with less time spent doing it from better investors, better terms, right? That's materially helped add value to a company. So we get people who approach us who are believers like that. We also get people who approach us and say, hey, you know, just make this deck look pretty, will you? And it's like, well, yeah, we can do that. Of course we can. We're not going to say no. And we believe a lot in visual design, and our designers do beautiful work. And then there is an element to that, right, in terms of, hey, do we— how do we make this look attractive? How do we make sure that the message is organized properly so the brain can read it and consume it properly? How do we get the hierarchy? So it's not like I don't believe in the value of design, but I I tend to think that if that's what you think that a pitch deck is all about, is just a nice design, then you're sort of missing the point. Some of the objections that we get, which, you know, I'm somebody who is driven sometimes by having a chip on my shoulder, and, you know, maybe I shouldn't be, but that's just how I've always kind of been wired. You know, I do get some objections that say, well, we don't really think that an outsider could possibly tell a story about this company. It's too technical, and you don't have like any background in robotics or B2B SaaS, you know. We'll get things like that. We've just never seen anybody do it well. And so we just don't believe it's true. There's this kind of fundamental belief that you have to really be an investor, a trained investor to be able to be good at investor storytelling, or you have to be an industry expert in the specific domain. I would obviously, you know, counter both of those things. I'd say, first of all, I would say there's certainly, it's certainly the case that an investor skillset is very different from a storytelling skillset. Investors are typically analytical. Very, very, very smart, but they're sort of very good at looking through data, cutting through a bunch of trends and making a really good decision. And I think I have this phrase that I think is valuable, which is the idea of, of sort of critique is different from creation or construction, right? So an investor is typically great at telling you the 20 things that suck about your deck, but they're typically not as great at actually making those 20 things. That's kind of what, what we do. But as for the, as for the idea of not being an industry specialist, you know, I actually firmly believe that there is a real value in knowing next to nothing about an industry. Because I think that when you think about a pitch or telling anybody a story, the person coming into it typically knows very little about you, your space, your company. So, they're typically starting from scratch anyway. And so, the trick is how do you make something which might be quite technical, quite accessible to somebody who's looking at it for the first time. And so, if you do work with an outsider, they can kind of go on that journey of understanding, and then they learn how to be able to translate that in a way that's very simple. And one of the things that we've had feedback around is people have said, wow, you're really good at explaining complex concepts very simply. And it's said as a compliment. It's also maybe said in a slightly dismissive way, like, hey, you know, it's very simple. But it's like, yeah, remember that whole adage about how I didn't have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one? Like, actually simplifying a complex message is hard work. It's really, really hard work, and it's a skill set. However, the more that you can simplify it while still retaining the meaning and the truth, the more impactful the message is going to be. And so, you know, those are some of the conversations that we're having with skeptics to try to convince them. I mean, of course, over time, the only thing which really works over time is just reputation. You know, having clients be happy. Like, we've got this client, you know, that they make this technology in Europe. It's called Weather Promise. And what they do is they guarantee the weather. You're like, what do you mean guarantee the weather? But you know how travel insurance, you know, you can kind of get insurance just in place, like something happens with your plane. Well, they sell this kind of insurance-like products that means that if the weather is bad on your trip, you get your money back. And so, there's this thing called sort of weather anxiety, where it's like, I kind of want to go to Spain in March, but like, if it rains all week, that's going to suck. And so, I'm not sure I'm going to book it. And so, they just take that off the table. And, you know, with this cool thing, there's a widget that's in the sort of signup flow at Expedia. And they say, oh, like, we succeeded. They had a 3x oversubscribed Series A round. And look, they're brilliant guys, and I can't take credit for their work. But they were very gracious to say, we very much benefited from the preparation that you gave us. And so, you know, as a small business owner, I don't think there's really like any big shortcut to success. There's no magic bullet. There's no sort of like I say, hey guys, like, now be a believer and follow me. It's going to be about brick by brick, building that evidence, building the case, building case studies. So it's about sort of really showing what the value is versus telling what the value is.

I know, and that was definitely a question I was gonna ask is when the, when you hit your sweet spot with somebody, what magic can happen? So you just shared a really great example. Are there any other examples that come to mind as some of your favorite case studies?

I mean, they're all, they're all my favorites. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I should take that question or that, rephrase it.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I'm still early enough in my entrepreneurial journey where I don't take any client relationship for granted. You know, I still don't know how much longevity, you know, this business— and maybe I should have more confidence, right? But it's only been a few years. And so, I'm still genuinely grateful for any opportunity that comes my way. I will say that I worked with this Russian client recently, Igor, and he had the opportunity to go and pitch at TechCrunch Disrupt. And it's very much, you know, just very much like the scene if you ever watch the Silicon Valley show on HBO, where, you know, the Pied Piper's CEO comes up and does his pitch. You know, Igor had the chance to go in and pitch there. And so he is creating this company called Apartheid, and that's all about— it's about family law technology, especially for people who are going through a divorce, which is kind of like this lengthy, time-consuming, stressful, expensive process where people lose, you know, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and things of that nature. And this is so personal to him because he himself has been divorced. And so he's solving a problem that he has personally found very painful in his journey. And we wrote the script for him, with him, but for him to go up and pitch on stage. And we workshop this opening line, which is, "Hi, I'm Igor and I'm divorced." Now, I wrote that line to be kind of like a window into his heart to sort of make the room be quiet and really listen and engage. However, him with his smile and his like big sort of personality, he delivered it in such a way that it actually had this humorous quality and it sort of made the whole room laugh and then got them to lean in and listen. And that was one of the more effective pitches that day. And because it had this really clear, powerful human and humorous hook. And you mentioned before, you know, what are some of the things that the good pitchers do versus the bad ones? I mean, one of the best things that you absolutely have to do is have a great hook. You know, I think any TV show you watch, you know, you're going to make a decision about whether that's worth watching based on what the first couple of minutes are like. Same thing with pitches. And in this attention-starved economy where we're always on our scroll, you know, always looking at feeds of LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok and God knows what, right? Like we're constantly splitting up our attention to these very small microbites and we make decisions quickly about what's worth listening to and what isn't. And so with him, I think what was beautiful was the hook and the delivery of it, which makes people then want to then listen for the rest of the story. So that was just fun and a recent personal experience that, yeah, that really kind of lit him up. And when we got to watch it on YouTube, we were like, okay, go Igor. Like, you legend.

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Yeah, absolutely. Well, we actually work with a pitch coach, a presentation coach as well. So, we have a former Off-Broadway actor and former Hollywood scriptwriter. Her name is Molly and she's amazing. And so, once we've written the narrative and designed the slides and built the deck, she comes in. At the end to help founders actually practice. And one of the things that she's really, really big on, well, she's big on everything. Like for example, composition, lighting, if you're on Zoom, making sure that you actually show up the right way visually, use convincing hand movements, have the right sort of body language. Like there's all these things which are sort of subtle cues, which convey some amount of confidence, some amount of authority in your subject. And so, there's a lot of things that And this is why I don't like it when people say, oh, I just need to have my deck be designed. That just tells me that you really don't understand how many opportunities there are here, which can help you have an advantage. You're not thinking about all the tools at your disposal. The one, the clients that I love are the ones who are like, hey, I want to be the best I can be, Carl. Like, let me come into the Presentation Mode Lab, whatever it is the heck that you guys do, and help me be great. You know, those are the ones that I love the most. But yeah, Molly helps think about the delivery of the story. She's talking about the tone of your voice. She says the word musicality a lot, which is sort of just the delivery and the pitch and the timing and the cadence and the pausing. She talks about discontinuities or sorry, disfluencies, which are the ums and the ers and the you knows, the things which trip us up a little bit and also just kind of chip away at the convincingness of the pitch, things which just slightly devalue us where we sort of, you know, this sort of self-deprecating style that some people have, it sort of doesn't really work in pitching, 'cause it's really an exercise in building conviction and not being self-deprecating. And so, there's a lot of these cues in language and in verbal and vocal delivery and in body language and visuality that also can really help a lot. And we actually do think of it as a performance. We do think of it as akin to an actor being on stage where you actually can prepare for this to be delivered at the absolute highest level. And you're not sort of going in and winging it. You are more going in with a little bit of a script and certain points you're trying to hit. And by the way, even if you have to do this 100 times, the 100th performance of Hamilton is not worse than the first performance because they got tired or bored or they're sort of over it, or they started like messing around, right? Like it's as convincing, as authentic as that first performance. Should be the same thing for pitching.. And those are some of the things which people don't really think about that much, which are also really, really valuable as well. Fantastic.

I have a slew of other questions that I could ask you, but we'll just say this conversation is to be continued. Would love to see, would love to see, yeah, how you're doing, you know, even in a year, cuz we didn't even touch, I'm sure there are people out there who think, oh, I could just have AI create it, which that's a whole other thing. Yeah, that we could get into, but we'll, we will definitely have a revisit soon. Carl, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your journey, your perspective, some things that everybody needs to think about. I didn't talk to you about the cost because I'm sure that this is not a cheap service because of the intentionality. Again, the structure, all of the things that you and your team have to pour into helping somebody put their best foot forward to raise. Millions, hundreds of millions, whatever the case may be. So I know we're going to have people go to presentationmode.co to get more information. I wanna of course ask you, is there one final thought you'd like to leave with us?

I mean, my biggest thing, which has really shaped so much of my recent journey and so much of my work is really learning how to trust my intuition. You know, we've all been on these journeys where we've had all of these experiences learning through life, through work, through school. Through lived experience. And I think my best decisions, both in terms of articulation of a pitch, life decisions, career decisions, have been the ones that I didn't overthink, the ones I trusted my gut. And that is really a journey that I think if more and more people could learn how to do that, they'd be surprised at the benefits to their life and to their work. And so that's the biggest thing which really springs to mind right now.

Fantastic. And do you have a quote, mantra, verse, poem, words that inspire you to continue to do just that?

You know, I don't know that I do. I mean, I did mention the short letter because, and the long and the short letter because you don't have time to write a short one, you write a long one. So I think about things like that. You know, I'm a big sports fan. I get a lot of inspiration through sports. You mentioned Houston, I'm a diehard Houston Rockets fan, by the way, shout out to the Rockets. And I get a lot of inspiration from that. And I was just reading this story about Shane Battier, an NBA player who worked as hard as he did to become a pro player because of Ghost. And the ghost is this sort of kind of imaginary person out there who was out there working when he was resting, which propelled him to want to work as hard as he possibly could because his belief that there was somebody who was out there working even harder than he did. And I think about things like that. I think about how do I maximize the opportunity that I have on this planet with the skills and the talents and the personality and the energy and the time that I have. So that I can feel like at the end of the day, I've really left it all on the table and didn't live with any regrets. And so I don't have a perfect quote, but this ghost story really resonated with me that I read today. And I think about things like that, 'cause I think that with our lives, our work is the biggest thing that we spend our time on other than sleeping. And so why not try and work, make your work as enjoyable and have as much fun as you can and make it as impactful as you possibly can as well. Fantastic.

I, I love that. I'm gonna have to look that story up. And here's a quote you can steal about kindness, going back to full circle moments. Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. That's one of my favorite quotes from the Dalai Lama. And I really appreciate that you walk through life with that sentiment as well, bringing kindness into the world and bringing our values to everything we do.

Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that quote.

Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you to everybody who is watching this episode, listening to it on your favorite platform. I'll be back again with another amazing guest to share their story, their journey with you. Think about everything that Carl's given us today, things that I try to espouse often if I can. Living within your value system makes it really easy to have a yes or a no. Uh, Carl, I love what you said at the end about really going with your gut instinct helps make and drive our decisions that much better. And usually if we don't second-guess ourselves, we can get— we are at the right decision originally. And just thinking about how we're intentional about building our teams, how we're presenting and using storytelling as a really essential part of all the work that you do to make your lives, your work a little bit better. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

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