Positioning Mastery and Intellectual Property Protection with Jason Van Orden

Okay, does this happen to anybody else? You sit down with a juicy QPC, some McNuggets and those golden fries from McDonald's. Then you take a long sip of your Sprite because you can still hear your mama saying, don't fill up on that drink before you eat your food. But you're grown now, so you do what you want.

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Step into the world of success with your brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. Jason Van Orden and I actually are both podcasters who met. It's kind of meta, right? We met through another podcaster. We were on her live and she put together such a great group. Shout out to Deb Ekerling for her live and I was really excited to be able to have this follow up conversation with you. So thank you Jason for gracing us with your presence on your brand new platform.

Yeah, thanks for the invite. I really enjoyed the chat we had on the live. Look forward to what we'll be able to come up with today.

Yeah, so I want to talk about your work because you specifically focus on established experts breaking through to the next level, which I love because often we think about getting people started, right? And maybe we think about, okay, what does it take to get from here to there. But just a lot of times what you do for that first part of your journey isn't going to be enough to get you to that next phase. So talk about your journey and how that led you into deciding you wanted to work with this type of expertise.

My journey, and, you know, I'll keep this on the shorter side because I've been doing this for, like, 20 years, but I. Yeah, so in one form or another, for the last 20 years, I've been a content creator, you know, podcaster, and working with people who have a message to get out there. I mean, really, like, I've always considered, or for many, many years considered my mission to help people with important ideas that can really make an impact, to reach and serve more of the people that they are uniquely positioned to serve in the world. And I came around to that because I kind of stumbled in, you know, through podcasting, stumbled into working with beginning entrepreneurs. I started the first podcast about Internet marketing and business in 2005. I just like, oh, let's try this podcasting thing, see what happens. And it was like, my friend and I, who, you know, were both, you know, had quit our jobs and we're trying to forge a path in the world and, you know, and through this, like, kind of circuitous path, next thing I knew, like, that blew up, became a top 10 business show. And as a result, you know, it was a educational company, a coaching company, and teaching people. And I, you know, I really love that. Helping people start a business that fulfilled them, helped them find more freedom. All the good things now about, you know, a decade ago, the online. Online's business space became. Just became very noisy. Like, just a lot of, like, hey, you can make money online too. And. And I was just like, not feeling it in terms of messaging myself that way. I didn't want to be all aspirational. And. And so I was like, well, why is this just not. It took me a little while to kind of figure out why it wasn't fulfilling me anymore just to, like, run this business that had, you know, done really well. And so, you know, that was a big inflection point for me. And those inflection points are so important. I mean, we're just going to hit them through our career, through points in our business, whether it's between two businesses, whether it's at different junctures in a business. And, you know, I think it's really important to understand when you are hitting one of those inflection points and what it. How to zoom out or get the support to help you zoom out and figure out, like, what's the sticking point, what's the friction, what's the bottleneck or the misalignment here so that, you know, you can to tweak your business model, to really be well aligned for your strengths, your goals, your values, your vision, and where you want to go. And that's just going to naturally change at different points along the while. So, like, you know, I started in my own business at that point. I started working with more established coaches and consultants. I'm like, well, that'll get me out of the aspirational realm. And that's where I just like, oh, I love this. I love just, like, being curious about people's expertise and ideas and seeing the kind of impact that they can have and helping. Because, you know, the more expert we are, the easier it is to forget how to really communicate well what it is that we do. So it's this, like, weird inverse relationship, and it's just not their fault. And I've seen it over and over again with experts where they hit these inflection points and, you know, they're hustling and they get great results for their clients. They've built a reputation, they've got some intellectual property or content and things out there. And then at some point, they. They hit that point where it's like, something's off. Just like, you know, when I. With my business, like, everything seems like it's going great, but why is this not? And so that's why I've really enjoyed, like, yeah, coming in, having been through many of those inflection points myself, coming in at that moment and helping them be able to reach that bigger vision of, you know, bigger impact legacy. What they. What they want to do by using my strategic thinking strengths, that helps them zoom out and pinpoint what's misaligned, what's off. And so just drawing from my own journey, drawing from working with now, you know, thousands and thousands of entrepreneurs and coaches and clients, and that's what I love helping my. My clients do.

Yeah, well, and kudos to you for being one of the very early adopters before most of us were talking about podcasting at all.

Well, I mean, it was such a kind of a fluke that it even showed up on my radar. But, you know, that's a big lesson. There is, like, sometimes your curiosity, like, tells you, like, your intuition speaking to you, like, this is something worth trying. And I resisted for a bit. Cause I'm like, who's gonna wanna listen to my voice? I'm just like some guy and could have never imagined where it was going to take me. So follow your curiosity. There's the first takeaway of I love it.

Yeah. And since then, you've had different podcasts. You were also freelance marketing for a while, and then that took you to having your name right on your own business for over 20 years now, what was it like to switch from being a freelancer, being a business coach, and starting these initial podcasts to going, yeah, this actually needs to be formalized a little bit because this is something I'm really good at and strong at and I can offer more.

Yeah. So I started noticing as I was. I mean, of course, when I started working with established coaches, I drew from a lot of the experience that I from before and just kind of like, adapted it to more, you know, advanced or just further along person. Right. And I started noticing as I was working, I just dove in one on one. I'm like, let me just get in deep with my, you know, figure and just kind of learn, where do I create the best value? What are the questions? What do people need? What's coming up? And something I just started seeing over and over again in my business and in their businesses is that, you know, as you're developing your expertise and your ip, a lot of it still kind of either stays trapped in your head or scattered in these various places. It's like you create a thing and then it's out in the wild, and then you kind of move on and you end up repeating or reinventing the wheel or at least not having it, you know, at your fingertips, all this great knowledge, not only about your industry and your expertise, but about your own organization that you're. You're building. And so that's why, of course, you become the biggest bottleneck in your own business, which is what was happening to me as well. And so I started thinking, okay, well, I love working one on one with people, but I really need to, like, open up this if I want to have a bigger impact and go bigger. So I started turning everything that I did every time I'd solve a problem or find a good way to, like, remove a challenge or whatever, like codifying things as frameworks and as tools and as worksheets and creating like a, you know, a signature method. So that signature method could sit out there as the thing people could believe in and not just feel, oh, if I don't have face time one on one with Jason, I'm not getting the value. They'd be like, oh, yeah, when I came to work with Jason. I already knew he had this method and that's what I believed in because that's what he, you know, had talked about in his, in his content. And so then when I started seeing how that helped me remove myself from, from the bottleneck and now my systems, the people who work with me could then just support people, my clients going through that system or whatever parts of the system were relevant to them. You know, that's where it opened up my own capacity a lot more. And so then you're able to focus more on the things that you're really good at and you know, and you can still get that FaceTime if it matters, with either the ones who are able and willing to pay that premium, if that's your business model or, or in the moments that it matters most. Like I have a bunch of clients I work with right now and we only have one on one calls, sometimes every couple of months. But like in those one hour calls and they are strategic, we are like identifying the things, we are making an action plan. We are, you know, seeing what's going to possibly get in the way so we can make sure that that doesn't happen. We're clarifying their goals and then I'm able to go like, okay, great, based on what we've talked about today, here's your eight week growth sprint, that's what I call it. My clients. So you know exactly what to work on and like you don't need to be on the phone every week. You need to be doing the stuff is what you need to be doing. They can still email me, they have lots of other ways to like get feedback in the moments that they need. But I'm able to say here's an action plan. So when you sit down, you know what's next? Here are tools and frameworks that I've developed and worksheets so that every step of the way, like I'm removing friction or helping them organize their, their ideas. And so then that's when I started seeing, oh, okay, yeah, this just bit by bit starts operating as a more well oiled machine. And a lot of people realize my operations need to be systematized as I grow in my business. But I think they overlook that their intellectual property and their expertise also needs to be systematized, codified. And now in the age of AI, AI is really great at some things and not so good at others. And if your stuff has already been turned into like frameworks or standard operating procedures or you know, you can and that to AI and go like, oh, I can apply this to this per, you know. And so now, whether internally for your own team or for your clients, you can get a lot more out of AI because the quality of the organization, of the data you're putting in, the information that you're giving it, the, you know, the things you want it to work with, it has what it needs to do, just as if you're delegating it to a human on your team. It's the same. So this is an extra bonus since I know you like talking about AI, as do I as well.

Yes, yes, definitely. And we will definitely talk more about that. But so it sounds like from, you know, the aspirational entrepreneurs that you were speaking to originally and helping, you know, had slightly different needs and maybe different limiting factors than the ones further on you mentioned. You need to have systemized processes, but you also need to systemize your ip. Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like and what are some of the other things that you see entrepreneurs working on when they're in that next stage of growth that they probably shouldn't be as focused on?

Ah, right, right. Well, let me start there really quick. The things that maybe they're trying that don't work as well. I mean, one is we just try to apply more effort because you know, entrepreneurs and people are driven and we're like, okay, I'll just, I'll work a little harder. But you know, that's only sustainable for so long. So you're at a point where more effort is not going to be the thing. It needs to be the right structure and remove the bottlenecks. The other things that I see them do are they're like, okay, well I guess I just need to like add another software tool or add another marketing channel or add another. And they're just making the complexity more. Right. And like it might seem like, well, you know, these are the different pieces that end up making a business that hopefully can run itself. But if the fuel, the machine, the product is your expertise, intellectual property, you know, what's coming out of your mind, like it doesn't matter how extensive or well oiled or you know, your marketing is your sales, your client delivery, because it's, you know, you're still gonna have that friction when it comes to you and like the translation of what you're creating into this machine that you're, you're building. So those are some of the things that I see people, you know, and now with AI too, they're like, oh great, maybe AI can save me. But we already, like, as I just said, like, things aren't organized well. They're like, well, this output doesn't sound like me. It forgets what I've said. You know, it keeps drifting off and like it's just not. It's generic, it's, I'm losing it, doesn't have my voice. But that's all fixable. But people just don't realize. They're like, ooh, magic button. Let me see if I can press that magic button and make it work.

There are different things that we get stuck at when we're in that middle phase you talked about a little bit, right. And we get stuck on the wrong things. So something that might be busy work versus productive work. And so, you know, we talked about you've realized you were the bottleneck in some of your growth when you were doing one to one. So what are some of the bottlenecks that you see with your clients that we maybe haven't mentioned yet? Because one thing I thought was really interesting is that with your growth diagnostic you can pinpoint what's blocking growth in under 10 minutes. Which I think is really fascinating because we can go as entrepreneurs round and round and even if we use AI, we can take hours. But we may not even realize that we're focused on the wrong thing. We're solving for the wrong thing.

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And what I mean by that is knowing, okay, what do I focus on now to get the greatest return on investment of my time, my effort, my resources, which are limited and sometimes you Feel like you've got a foot on the dock and a foot in the boat and you're trying to get the boat going a new direction and you're like stuck, right? So what thing can I do to finally start lifting my foot off the dock and get some momentum in the right direction? And so the ability to be able to zoom out or through a mastermind or a coach or a good framework that can help you to zoom out and see the different pieces. So you can go like, okay, what, here's to where I'm trying to go. Here's what's in the way. How do I remove those things in the way and start building the bridge? So it's just like putting things in the right order. And because as entrepreneurs and coaches and consultants, like, you know, we like the shiny objects, we like the new exciting things. It's easy to ping pong around or just to hear something that's like, oh, somebody said I need to do that. Okay, I'll try, try that. So that's one of the first. And there's four of them that I see a lot is just strategic blocking point constraint. Another one that I that I often see is client delivery bottleneck or constraint. So too much of their time and energy is still involved in delivering value to clients. And there are different reasons for this. I mean they're like, well yeah, naturally I'm the expert, that's who they're hiring. And we feel like, well, that's what they're buying. They're buying me, they're buying my time. And that's a positioning issue. Like you can still be the expert, but put your framework, your system out front. So let's see what's a good example. There's like Donald Miller's story brand. Like that's a marketing framework that now people can get certified and people can license other experts can deliver and you don't have to do those things. But point is that he created this framework that became the thing through writing a book and speaking. And he's still the expert. And I'm sure he gets paid well still to spend time with people. And that's. But people are buying into the system to the point that they'll work with another coach just because that coach knows how to apply his his right. And so that's one of the biggest. And I think this is actually one of your questions earlier that I forgot was like, what does that actually look like codifying and structuring all this? One of the first things to remove this block of this delivery Block is, well, create a signature method that's like the umbrella for everything. It's like, okay, I work with these people and I help them get to these outcomes. And here my process. And it doesn't have to be linear. Sometimes, you know, there's different types. But I have found that when I helped my clients, and this is an aha moment I had several years ago when I helped them get that signature method nailed down, suddenly it did a lot of things. It became this filter that they could look at and go, like, okay, if it doesn't support me in doing these things, I don't do it in my business. They can look at it and go, okay, I can start taking pieces of the signature method and fill out what, figure out what can I streamline, where can I create. Well, where can I put a system in place? What really requires me to be present and what doesn't require. So now you've got a map to start messing things. Then it becomes a great marketing and messaging and sales tool. And, and it tells you what kind of content creates all these things start falling in place when you have the clarity of like, this is my signature method. Not to mention it's a great positioning tool because you're the only one with that method, even if others do what you do. So that's delivery constraints, strategic constraint, delivery constraint. And then of course, there's the demand generation constraints. Like, either you've got not enough of the right people coming in, or you've got plenty of them coming in. Not enough of them are converting into clients. I mean, when it comes to, like, nuts and bolts growth, it's either get more prospects, convert more of those prospects into clients and customers, or increase the lifetime value that you deliver to and then earn from them. And so, you know, sometimes that is the thing. And often that's where people start. They're like, yeah, okay, I'll, I'll start a podcast or I'll go on pod, right? They start adding the demand generation thing without realizing, oh, I've got a delivery constraint, I've got a strategic constraint. So that's the one I think most people are aware of, is just demand generation constraint. Not enough of the right people moving through the system from finding you to becoming a lifelong, you know, fan and client, or just, you know, for, for whatever period of time. And then the other constraint is a positioning constraint. So there's something off with the messaging. And this goes back to, like, the better you get at what you do, the easier it is to forget what it's like to be in the position that the place that your ideal people are at. And one of my favorite marketing quotes is from Robert Collier, who said, always enter the conversation already going on in the mind of your customer. And so if you're over here talking about your solution and saying your words or jargon or just like speaking to the wrong thing, that's not their experience, not what's going on in their brain, not the language that they're using. You might have the solution and they might see it for a moment and not even realize that it's relevant to them. Or they might go like, that looks kind of like I've seen that before and I've been there, done that. And so then they move on and you've lost them. Right. And the reason why this is a constraint at that point of making this big leap to something bigger is, well, what do most coaches and consultants and experts do early on? Well, they get referrals and they get kind of like a network level expertise. And you know, people know, it's like, oh, go to Annika, she does X. Or you know, go to Jason, he does, he does Y. And that's a great way to like get things going those first few years. But at some point you gotta get to this like audience level awareness, audience level positioning and brand. That requires having more precise aligned messaging. That requires knowing like, what is it that really sets you apart? So you can have what I call your remarkability factor. So you're not just relevant to somebody and then resonant because of your values and who you are. You are also remarkable. Like, ooh, I have not seen it put that way before. I've been waiting to find you. I need to hear more. That's what you, you know, so if you want to make that leap, you got to add that in. And so positioning constraint is the fourth one. So let me just review those. Delivery constraint, tied up in too much client delivery, positioning, clarity constraint. Your messaging is just not aligned. Strategic sequencing, not doing things in the right order, not zooming out enough, or demand generation constraint, not moving enough of the right people through your customer journey. And that's why the diagnostic and just a few questions actually kind of help figure out which one of those is holding you back.

Yeah, I mean those are all really important to any business. And I wonder, do you ever have entrepreneurs, these people who want, they know, they want to get to the next level. But the IP part, right, Because I think it can be really hold for people to let go sometimes of. This is my ip. Yes, I know I need to codify it and I need to train other people on how to deliver my services. So it's not just me. I mean, on one hand, we do feel sometimes beholden because we know that clients are coming in because of our name. And on the other hand, sometimes I do feel like people don't want to give up control and let other people in, which is a huge roadblock.

Sure, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are some very legitimate reasons for being worried about allowing your IP to go bigger by, you know, codifying it and delivering it in new ways. And one is like, you know, hey, it feels good to be the person that matters. People are buying you and your time, you show up in the moment and you're intuitive and you say the right thing or ask the right question, and that's awesome. And like, hey, if that's. Many people are just happy to do that the rest of their career, and that's. That's great. And if you want bigger impact, like, at some point you're going to need to get over that and you're still going to be able to matter and do things that you love, but just in new ways. Right. And then, you know, people are worried about, oh, the people copying their. Their ip or, you know, as they get more visibility, people are going to start ripping it off, or I can't put it into AI because then it'll just be out there. It's like, well, you want it out there. And chances are, if you've ever been on a podcast, like, you can probably search and your IP is already in AI, Right? What you need to do is make the brand and the messaging big enough where they're like, oh, yeah, I came across it here or there, but I need to go and work with them directly. Like, that's who I want to work with. And so, yeah, these little things that get in the way of, like, oh, I don't want to go bigger one, then the last one is like, losing, like, the voice or the brand. But that's where, like, you know, part of turning it into a signature method, part of codifying and turning to systems, is to get very clear on the messaging and how it's presented. And, you know, if you're using AI, what are the guidelines that AI follows and the constraints that it sticks to so that when you're delivering or somebody else is delivering to a client or through a group course or asynchronous digital whatever, that there is that consistency. And any business that grows faces that, like, make the brand cohesive and then Keep it, you know, on point as you go. And so it's just a decision you get to make at some point. Is it more important for you to worry about these things and to matter at that level, or is it more important for you to have the bigger impact that you want to have? And so that's just like the reality that you end up having to consider.

Those are all really important things. But I appreciate the fact that you specifically are talking about, we need to make sure that we own the ip. So if you go on interviews, you probably talk about some of the same concepts over and over again. But part of the way to protect yourself is to put it into a framework. And I can't. I mean, we can't overstate that enough, right, Because. And that's one thing you and I were talking about. You know, we go to podcast conferences. I was just at one and spoke about this very thing, is how do we use AI to leverage and extend our brands so they're identified with us versus just out in the ether and kind of, you know, those creative endeavors that kind of float from person to person. So you need to catch your creative endeavor and your thought process so that you can be the one who's named with it.

And it's actually easier to protect when you've formalized it, right. Whether that's trademarking or keeping things copyrighted and so forth, it becomes less generic, so then it's actually easier to defend.

Now, the people that you work with, we all get to that level in our businesses, hopefully, right? Where we say, okay, we've had a great level of success and growth, but we're ready to get to that next chapter. But we also want to make sure that we're growing smartly. And one thing that you do emphasize is avoiding growth just for growth's sake. We also want to make sure, I mean, part of the reason that we become entrepreneurs is hopefully so that we also have lives. We're not just consumed by our businesses. So can you talk a little bit about those two factors? Growth for growth's sake, and also making sure that we're being smart with that growth and creating these lives that we really want.

Right. Well. And yeah, that's one of the things that I think in that. You know, my previous business that started from that podcast early on, one reason it wasn't as fulfilling is because I hadn't really defined or figured out what growth looked like for me. And I was so steeped in just kind of the Internet marketing world at the time that it's like, you know, there was a certain way that everybody looked at like scaling and you know, it was about getting as many leads in the front as you could and then tweaking the numbers. And you know, when I finally zoomed out to go like, wait, that's, that doesn't feel good to me. That's not what I want things to look like the way I want to have an impact, the kind of impact that I want to have. So part of it is just first of all realizing that you get to define what scaling means. I mean, this gets thrown out there all the time. Scale your business. Scale your business, Scale your business. And if you want that to still include some one on one time, because that just lights you up and that's where you get some of your best ideas or whatever. And then great, like carve out your business model to still allow for that, you know, if you still want to be speaking like, so whatever, whatever it is. So, you know, growth is not just about the numbers. Growth is not just about income. It might seem obvious to say that, but I think sometimes we really just end up thinking about it, feeling it too narrowly, because we just keep hearing that around us, right? And in the society that we're in, you know, the marketers that are really loud, there's, there's just this very specific way at looking at success. And I have found that for myself and the clients that end up enjoying working with me, yes, they want to like go bigger, but that looks a different way for each of them. You know, so we look at the opportunities they want to have, the kind of impact they want to have, where their fulfillment comes from. So that can still be in there, where their strengths are, so they can still leverage those things. Like, you know, yes, there are these basic building blocks of a business model that I look at and help my clients to streamline. But there are a lot of different ways to tweak pieces and parts and variables so that it can feel good to you as it, as it does get bigger. And so that's one reason why I'm so big, not only in helping my clients, like create frameworks and things. I love frameworks because there's way too many formulas out there, way too many people like, this is what I did to succeed. Just do the same thing as me. It'll work exactly the same as you already. That's, that's just not true. And so when you create a really good framework, you know, as an expert, well, now you've broken down the first principles and the really important pieces so that now somebody can come and, you know, so if you're working with me, you get to put what's important to you and lay it on top of this lattice work that I've created for you. That's a foundation of, you know, things to organize it and, you know, help it grow, but in a way that, yeah, is not, is not going to misalign with your values and your, Your vision, your goals, your, Your strengths. And so, yeah, I just think that's a really important realization for us to have and it's, it's easy to overlook.

So can you share some of the different ways or methods or things that look like success to a client that you've had? Like, after six months of working with you, if success means something slightly different to everybody, what are some of those things that are similar in their results and in the way that they've, you know, been able to put together the next level of success working with you?

Yeah, I mean, one thing that's, that's, you know, whatever their business model is going towards is just having that next level of, like, confidence and clarity about how they show up and talk about what they do and getting used to it, you know, talking about it on a, on a bigger scale in a new way so that it can easily reach, Reach more, more people. And so you, you might think it's like, oh, somebody's been doing this for five years, seven years, 10, 15 years. But there's, you know, often still, first of all, tweaking in the messaging, but then just a lack of clarity and confidence. So now when they go to write content, you know, like I said, signature method is this one thing that can really help them figure out what content specifically they should be creating. Right. You know, I help them come up with, like, here are the five messaging themes that you want to be rotating through. You know, you can create different types of content, but these are the themes you need to be hitting so that, you know, they have that clarity and aren't. Are just kind of like scattered. Like, I know I need to be creating content. I'm just doing it for content's sake and not really being strategic about it. So that clarity and confidence as well, one thing, the other thing is consistency, and that shows up in a few different ways. First of all, consistency in terms of, you know, everyone wants to go from outbound marketing. I gotta constantly be reaching out and following up and going out and finding opportunity. And that's where we all start. And we have to do that for a good while. And, you know, Maybe never fully goes away for some, but that's at some point, like the tide kind of turns back because, you know, you do, you have nailed that clarity of messaging. You have, you know, really dialed in your demand generation and gotten very clear about how you're delivering your value to clients so that now you do see more inbound coming in. And the biggest thing there that I see people lacking is they haven't really thought through what their customer journey is. They're like, I know I need visibility, I know I want to get people on the phone. And it's just kind of this black box in the middle of like, how to get the right people on the phone from all of this showing up and being on LinkedIn and writing content. And they just left this big gap. Well, when we fix that, it's like, now there can be this consistency. So it's like, I know if I focus on these things every week, every month, every quarter, whatever, that demand generation is going to keep going and then consistency themselves. Like, maybe they're like, oh, I struggle. Like, be consistent with content. Great, where's the friction? Let's remove it. Maybe you're trying to do content that's just not a fit for you. Let's dump it. Let's find something that is. Or maybe you need a good workflow or maybe there is a way we can bring AI in to do that. So consistency is another very common thing that I go for when working with clients. So that clarity and confidence, consistency, it's all C words. That's convenient. Maybe this is a new little framework or something as well. And then just the scalability. But again, however that looks for them, but almost always it means they have more capacity. Oh, another C word. Capacity. They have more capacity to serve people in the ways that feel good to them. And like, as more people show up, they're not like, oh, sorry, I'm maxed out and still somehow not making as much as I want or need to or whatever. Like, they are able to, as they serve more people and have that bigger impact, not have it add to complexity, not have it just completely drain them. So consistency, confidence, clarity, those are like really the themes of what we're. We're going for. Whether we're tweaking messaging or, you know, their lead generation, whatever, like, we're going for those, those things in their business.

Amazing. You mentioned use of AI, so I want to talk to you a little bit about where you see your business going. How much are you using AI or not? And where do you see being most Effective in your own business.

Yeah. So, I mean, similar to when podcasting showed up on my radar a couple of years, you know, was it two or three years ago now when AI kind of really started popping up in a. In a bigger way? I was like, okay, my curiosity kind of like, ding, said that thing again. I'm like, okay, I've got a technical background. I'm really curious about this. I'm seeing some real potential. Let me dive in and just like, start playing with it and figuring out what works. And so the ways now that I end up using it a lot, I mean, I use it all the time as a thinking partner. And it feels like when you get it dialed in the right way, it feels like being able to just kind of like, talk to yourself, really. Like when. When it's really kind of learned, like how you think and your business model, and it's got, you know, your voice down and these different elements, and it can flow and it doesn't drift off and get what you're talking about or make stuff. You're like, that's not how I say that. And so, like, every day, and I'm somebody with adhd, and so it very frequently helps me check my priorities. Double check. If I'm being a perfectionist on something, double check like, hey, what are the two most important things today? Help me think through that. Or, you know, just to go for a walk for a half an hour. And like, okay, I want to do this workshop, and this is what I'm thinking and mind dump and organize it. So thinking partner all the time is one thing, but then there's just some of those nice nuts and bolts. And what I tell people is like, don't just go and, like, chase the skills or the prompts or the AI tool that seems like, oh, that's going to fix it for me. Find the friction that's in a place of something that you do a lot, and you keep running up against it and it drains you every time. And if you could remove that friction, it would save you energy, save you time, but just create more momentum and flow in your business. And so, you know, now I've got things where I can go in, you know, and Claude's got access to my Google Drive and all this stuff, and I can and notion, and I can just like, ask a few questions, have it fetch the thing and like, put a, you know, give it a transfer transcript from a client and like, put together some new tool for them. Like. Like that. Because Claude knows it's like, oh, well, Jason's, got these tools, and I just heard the client talk about this is what they need. And like, okay, here's the tool, though, based on what you guys talked about. And then I go, like, great, let's tweak a few things. So, you know, I love creating new stuff, and it's like delivering this, like, high touch value and experience that probably feels sometimes like I'm putting hours upon hours in, and sometimes I'm able to, like, create something that they're just like, holy cow, where did this come from? And it's like the commercial. I don't know. This is. What was it? Maybe in the 80s rice Krispie treats? There was like, the mom would go into the kitchen, and basically they're saying how easy Rice Krispie treats is, but she'd go in there and read her book because they could take her five minutes to make the Rice Krispies treats, read her book, throw some flour on her face, and then come out like, here you go, everyone flaving away on your treat. And little do they know, it took her five minutes to create Rice Krispie treats. So I get to deliver Rice Krispie treats a lot to my clients and then drafting stuff or offering suggestions and feedback on things too. Find the friction is the biggest thing I can say is, like, just figure out what's the friction. And then there are lots of different ways you can start applying AI to just, like, smooth that friction out or get it out of there and make your life a lot easier just one incremental bit at a time. That's pretty amazing when it works.

That's a great analogy. I haven't thought about Rice Krispie treats in a very long time, but they are yummy, right? Amazing. And I do feel like AI is the ADHDer's best friend.

Oh, my gosh. It's like, yeah, life feels so hard already to people with adhd. And I'm like, you know, it's not always me. Like, everyone's got their challenges, right? But when it comes to, like, cognitive energy and executive thinking, being the deficit, AI helps plug those holes so well. It's just like, oh, it feels like such a blessing sometimes.

Yeah, you and I could stay on and talk. We get so much deeper into so many of these areas that we've discussed already. But we'll save that for another conversation because I know we're gonna have many more, whether it's on different podcasts or other people's lives. Just a conversation. So I'm really excited to continue learning from you. So thank you for that and I'm excited to share your growth diagnostic with people. So we will have that linked in the show. Notes.

Okay.

Right. Jason vanorden.com Growth forward slash growth.

Nice and easy. It'll just take you a simple page where you'll be able to enter your name and email, get it and within 10 minutes hopefully unlock some insight about what to focus on.

Amazing. Jason, do you have one last piece of advice you'd like to leave the audience with? If they are in that stage, whether it's early growth or mid growth and they're just stuck and they don't know what, how to pull back and you know, what question to ask themselves next?

Yeah. Okay. Well, I think I'm going to repeat three that I've said that these are really good themes. And so one of them is like knowing when to zoom out and when to get the support to help you zoom out. Because sometimes it's just really hard. You know, it's the whole can't see the label from inside the jar, whatever analogy. Right. And knowing when to zoom in or zoom out is so important in business. You know, if are you looking too granularly, too close and aren't seeing or are you pulling out and seeing the bigger picture and like, so if you're stuck, maybe you need to change the lens, the aperture that you're working with. Check in with your curiosity. I mean, sometimes if things are feeling stale, they're just not moving forward. I mean, I shared the example of podcasting and AI and there've been many others where following my curiosity, sometimes it doesn't work out, but where it just sometimes it's like, like, oh my God, I had no idea that this was gonna like open this up for me. So that might be the thing that unlocks for you. And then the third one would be like find the friction. And you know, often you are somehow the the friction but you know, get even more specific whether that's in your client delivery or in your demand generation or whatever. Like where does that friction just keep showing up and robbing you of time and energy and then, you know, figure out a way, a tool or framework, you know, to, to remove that friction. So one of those three themes are gonna defin when you're, when you're feeling stuck.

Amazing. And do you have a favorite quote, mantra, verse, poem, family motto?

Well, I mean the one quote that I use all the time is that Robert Collier 1. The Always enter the conversation already going on in the mind of the customer. I'll just build on that for like, 10 seconds here. And it's like, I mean, it really comes down to empathy, right? And there are two levels of that relevance, which is, are you speaking to the things that are top of mind in terms of their needs, challenge, goals? And so when they see it, they're like, ooh, this. He's just speaking to me. This is about something that could help me. And then resonance. And that's where it's like your values or how you show up or even the commonalities that you have in terms of hobbies or both being parents. Like, the ways that we decide if we can trust someone or not. Like, are you putting enough of that resonance for the right people into your marketing position? Like relevance and resonance. And then remarkability, which we didn't get into. But always enter the mind by being nail down that. That relevance and then figure out, like, what are the things that when I say it resonates with the right people in a different way, where they go, you're the one that I have been waiting to hear from on this. I need to hear more. So, yeah, just building on that quote a little bit more because it's really powerful. Yeah.

Amazing. Awesome. Thank you so much. You've given us so much to think about. And thank you to everybody who's watching this episode, listening to it on your favorite platform. I have really enjoyed my conversation with Jason. You can go to his website and get that in 10 minutes. Figure out where you're stuck and figure out how to get unsafe. Stuck. I think that is. It's really amazing because it is. So often we have to get out of our own way and we don't know what we need to get out of the way of. Right. So getting clarity so that we can make more impact, make more income, and have the success as we view it is where we should all be and what we should all be looking for in this year. So with that, I'll be back again with another amazing expert to share their story, their journey, and some tips and tricks with you. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of youf Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out@yourbrandamplified.com.