S E758: Building Better Through Leadership: Kristian Fields on Culture, Technology and Workforce Strategy

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Terms and points cap apply. As AI develops and manufacturing equipment develops, we want to be able to kind of meet it where it's going to be. So we're rethinking the way we go about the designs and go back to that BIM modeling and how we code our software and the way we use that, that in time, whether it's a year or 2 years or 3 years, is that going to be able to talk to an automated welder or an automated machine that just helps assist what we're able to do, right? Our workforce can then expand their production or expand their capacity by having the assistance of something like that.

Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. In the construction industry, speed and precision have always been in tension. Build faster, quality suffers. Prioritize quality, schedules can slip, especially if you're dealing with labor shortages and complex site constraints. My next guest refuses to accept that trade-off. Christian Fields is the president of Clover Contracting, an award-winning prefab and commercial construction leader that's fundamentally changing and reimagining how large-scale infrastructure gets built. From data centers to hospitals to multifamily residential, Clover combines advanced manufacturing, BIM coordination, and proven field execution to deliver projects with greater speed, better quality, and less on-site chaos. You have, Kristian Fields, 25 years in construction management, estimating, procurement, structural engineering, and of course, other senior leadership roles before you stepped into Clover. So, I'm really excited to dive into your approach to culture, team building, operational excellence, and how this can help reshape an entire industry. Kristian, thank you for coming to Your Brand Amplified today.

Thank you very much for having me on.

Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about your background. You've had many roles at Turner Construction before landing at Clover. So talk about your interest and engagement in this industry. What brought you to it? What continued to excite you? And moving through the chain from different companies into now being president of Clover.

Sure. Yeah, I guess my background, you know, going way back, was always just an interest in building and construction and, you know, walking down the street, figuring out how things to go together. Appreciation of architecture and just the understanding of, of really how things go together and, and leaving an imprint in our communities. And way, way back, right? I probably thought I wanted to be an architect or, or a, a carpenter and things like that, but ultimately pursued the path of engineering. Started my career early in New York City doing historic preservation work, structural design, you know, in and around the city and that, that major metropolitan market. And what I found was that What I enjoyed the most was getting out to the project sites, interacting with people, and finding practical solutions that you could apply the engineering world to, right? You know, standing in front of a building and figuring out how to, how to repair something, right? As opposed to just doing the math behind it. And that led me down a path of wanting to pursue the management and the general contracting world of things. I moved around a bit, moved out to Arizona more for a, a life change, a lifestyle change, and, and that, That led me to the, the general contracting world. And that was everything, right? The management, the training, procurement, estimating how a job goes together, how to manage it on the project sites, leading operations teams, and the, which can just kind of continue to grow over a long period of time. Right? Great understanding the real business side of it, the risk management side of, of the construction industry, all the different trades involved. And it's just really kind of scratched that itch of, how things go together and, you know, really leaving an imprint. I had the opportunity about 5 years ago to make a shift to get more specialized where I am here with, with Clover and leading this company to the specialty contractor side of it, right? We're, we're manufacturers, we're builders that are, are putting the work in place, right? Our workforce are the one putting the work in place and it excited me to come something that was entrepreneurial, right? Try different things, create new products and build great things with the people that we have.

When you started at Clover, what was that shift like? What were the kinds of projects that you were working on and how has that evolved in your time there?

Sure. I mean, the shift is, is definitely different. We're going from a, an international company to a more regional company just in terms of size and scale. We were working on very similar projects though. Healthcare hospitals within the region, healthcare, higher ed facilities, dorm renovations or dorm buildings, new dorm structures. We're doing some very large multifamily work in and around the city of Philadelphia as well as North Jersey through our prefabrication work. And we've really continued to expand that both in size and scale. We've recently completed one of the largest prefabricated apartment buildings in the country here in Philadelphia. We were fortunate to win an award through Associated Builders and Contractors for that one, which we're proud of. We've expanded our footprint into the North Jersey, the Northern Virginia market in the data center world and expanded our, our offerings in what we're doing, right? We've started to build a little bit more modular type products. We have a new facility coming online here in the fall that'll expand our capacity for what we're able to produce in and around the region. And then, and really, really focused on expanding our, our geographical footprint.

Yeah. And there's such big differences between where you got your start and where you're at now. I was recently in Philly and stayed in an Airbnb that had was in an old building that had been renovated. And just, you know, this is a very small story, but when we were there, we went out for breakfast, we walked back and they had decided to power wash the driveway, which we had a ground floor with a basement level for our bedrooms. And of course they had something wasn't connected correctly and the bedrooms were flooding. And those are the kind of issues that you can see when you're having, you're trying to revamp the footprint, right? Of, something that's an older building where you still want to pay homage to the former architecture, but modernize a little bit. And now you don't have to worry about some of those same issues. Instead, you're able to, to really think about what the future can look like and envision something new that will stand up to the test of time.

No, that's true. I think a lot of our buildings are, are outta the ground and, and, and prefabricated or manufactured and going vertical. But that experience, right, of having to deal with some of the older, type products and staying true to whatever the image wants to be, I think is important, right? We work with architects and end users and that's, that's their building, right? They've spent years financing it and figuring out what is important to them. And it's important to us to make sure that, that we, we carry that on even if it is a new structure.

Yeah.

No, that's good. I, I'm sure that's given you a very different background perhaps than other people who could be in leadership positions such as yourself. So I'd love to hear a little bit about Clover's culture and the approach that made you want to step deeper into leadership. I mean, you went from CEO, now you're president. What is it about that culture that you loved and what's driving your future vision for the company?

Sure. You know, something that attracted me to being here is the thought process of just continually improving what we do, right? Continuing to be innovative in what's possible. We have customers that contact us about something that they're trying to do that maybe nobody else has, and they know we're the people that we can call, that they can call to sit around the table and figure it out with them, right? And we've got that type of mindset spread throughout the company, whether it's in our shop or in our field or in our marketing department or our HR group. And culture's hugely important, right? Especially as we're growing. We have 2 announced recruiters that we're, you know, continually hiring. And about 3 years ago, we looked back and said, how do we make sure that as we're growing, we're able to maintain the fabric of, well, you know, what we really are and how do we communicate that to people. The company's been around for 35 years. We've got our core values in our manual and it's always been there and it's really thoughtful and written well. But about 2 years ago we rolled out a new campaign with that and we brought an outside entity in that helped us really formalize that and come up with what's called, we call 31 fundamentals of how we operate. We share one each week. Well, when we started that out, where all 31 first came from me, every week I would write a message about what that particular, you know, what they meant to me, whether it was, you know, think safe, work safe, or find win-win solutions, deliver results. They're actionable. We recognize people within the company for living those or in examples of exactly how they did it. And the idea being that as we grow and as we hire, like, this is what we're about. We hire and we interview for it because I think we can train a lot of skill sets, but if we can find the right type of individual that fits within the company, we're going to all do a lot better.

I love it when people have a very clear understanding of their values in business and in life, and you can find that great marriage because you know that's a place that you want to work and a place that you'll feel proud of working. And the fact that you are finding examples, you're not just telling people, right? It's not just top-down what these values are, but you're able to show examples through the employees and their actions. That's something that's really invaluable to the culture.

We think so. We, we, we hold it highly important. I think for me, if I can Aside from the work we do and the work that we're proud of, if the people here are reaching their ultimate potential, loving what they do, and proud of the, what, what we're putting out there, like that's the other, you know, half of, of success in my mind.

Nice. Well, and you did mention that you had a more international footprint. You decided to focus more regionally and grow there. Can you talk about some of the, was it market conditions? Was it just, you felt like there was bigger opportunity to kind of stay in the US and grow the region? What were some of the thought processes?

I think for me it was the ability to kind of flex, flex creativity of decision-making or ability to try different things. The company's always had an entrepreneurial spirit here, and I was fortunate to come join and help grow that and foster that. But, you know, really the ability to drive decisions and make decisions on what we could do, for better or worse, right? If it doesn't work out, I'm living with it, but that's okay.. And, you know, I give you an example of, you know, customers that call us that want to, they, they want to go, let's say for example, prefabricate something, which is a huge portion of our business and they want to figure out a way to do it differently or better. We get those calls very frequently. I'd like the ability just to kind of figure it out and make it happen.

And, and talk about prefabrication. Why did you decide as a company and as an ethos that that was a strong direction to go into?

Sure. Our prefabrication journey, if you will, began about 15 years ago with the manufacturing shop that we, that we're currently working out of and, and expanding a little bit further. But there's a number of reasons that it brings benefit to a project. One being just there's the repeatability, right? Like of, of, of training, bringing manufacturing to construction maybe is the best way to think of it.

Mm-hmm.

Right? The more we can make tasks repeatable, they're trainable for the work staff that we're trying to bring up. We're also be able to bring speed to projects. So for example, we're doing projects in this area that are a hospital solution, right? Rather than being up on lifts with say 50 workers or, you know, around the side of that building in, you know, safe, but you know, up in, up in high conditions, we're able to bring certainty to that project. We're able to bring it way back further in design, work with the designers, work with the architects, get every dimension absolutely correct in a model, in a 3-dimensional model. So our in-house design team will model that, will manufacture the panels, will roll every single stud and piece to its exact size, which limits waste. Have it ready to go. If there's ever delays on a project site, we're ready to go. We're stored protected in our yard. And so we're bringing certainty and speed to the projects, but also a repeatability that we're able to train a workforce to do as opposed to needing somebody that's 30 years experience on the side of that building, you know, running every dimension and working and interacting in the field in that manner.

Yeah, the quality control is, is highly important. I love that You're talking about the repeatability because, and we're going to get into a little bit of the AI conversation, but we know that, you know, obviously there are a lot of jobs that are being replaced with technology. And this is something that you still need that human element to oversee the process, to make sure there is that quality control, but you can also make sure that things are running really smoothly and efficiently and that you're able to bring things to the client faster.

Absolutely. We agree.

Yeah. So Clover is on a productivity revolution mission. What do you think is broken in other parts of the business? Not necessarily Clover, but the construction industry overall that also helps you realize these are the right solutions. And there's also, you know, we see it in many industries that there's a shortage of people who are willing to do this kind of work.

Yeah, I, you know, you're right. I think that fewer people that have gone into the trade skilled workforce over the last, let's say, decade, we're feeling the effects of that now. Read a statistic recently that we'll need another 450,000 or so jobs in 2027 just to maintain the demand in construction workforce that we foresee, right? And that's without anticipating, you know, any increases in workforce. Now, people are getting more and more into the trades recently. Applications to trade schools are increasing. There are initiatives for— we're members of Associated Builders and Contractors. They created a form, an alliance with Meta to introduce workforce hiring on their data center projects. So it's all great things moving in the right direction. But when you walk a construction site, there are so many things happening on that site. You have electricians, plumbers, carpenters, you know, you name it, all of those trades working together and relying on one another on that project site to make something happen, right? So, you know, I come in, reframe a wall, we're waiting for the electric to get, to get run or waiting for the plumbing to run to then come in and put the drywall. And it's, it's essentially like if you imagine you're driving in traffic, right? And you're trying to anticipate what everybody else on that highway is about to do, right? And the more unpredictability there is, the less productive it is, right? The less people we can get down, down that highway. In this case, really the construction site. So as we have fewer trained workers in the field, we have more unpredictability. And in the event you have a, a project site not managed as tightly, it leads to that, that productivity breakdown, right? So that's where the prefabrication aspect of what we do is a solution for that, right? It's a solution to bring things offsite, take the, the smarts of it, if you will, into a model, into a 3-dimensional model, into a repeatable way of manufacturing something, into a predictable way of installing it on the project site.

Nice. So you talked a lot about different verticals from multi-use family housing with perhaps in, you know, retail below, which we need in places like Philly. Uh, we've talked about higher education, you've talked about hospital systems, and data centers is a relatively new part of the business.

Yeah, in the last couple of years it's been, as it's grown nationally, it's been a newer and larger portion of our business as well.

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And what was the decision process like to say, oh, this is something that we can do really well geographically with the skill sets that the company had or other parts of the business opportunity that you saw?

Yeah, I think fortunately, you know, the construction industry has many areas of relationship business. So we, we get the phone call from somebody that's worked with us in the past that needed a solution for their particular data center jobs and we know who to call, right? And it wasn't something that hadn't necessarily been built before in terms of that size and scale of it, but it was, had a lot of relation to what we'd done in the past. So the decision really to get into it was really what scratches the itch for us is like solving problems for our customers. And we get that phone call, that's We're gonna, we're gonna run toward that. Data center market is obviously increasing. It's meant for, and then the need for that is speed to revenue, right? Opening up those project sites, absolute certainty that we're not gonna miss a day on that, on that site or, or in the delivery of that job. And that's how we're geared as a company. So to have a customer call that says, I need a unique solution, that's what we do, right? To provide certainty to your project. That's absolutely what we do. And an emerging market in our region, really, really checked all the boxes. And so we, we really leaned right into that. It's been repeatable for us. It's another aspect of it that the repeatability of some of these types of designs, while all a little bit unique, we're able to build and improve off of each one for the next project and the one thereafter.

Nice. Operationally, Clover talks about BIM coordination, advanced manufacturing, experienced field execution as 3 pillars. For someone who doesn't speak construction, which is probably a lot of the people listening but may need construction, what does each one of those pieces do?

All right. So we talked about, we talked about BIM. So Building Information Modeling has become more and more common in the industry for a design to be modeled and designed in 3 dimensions. Traditionally, a job would be designed, you know, we'll, we'll use the term blueprints, right? 2-dimensional. You've gotta look at it, you gotta understand how that interprets, and you have to, be able to understand all the parts and pieces of it. Where does the ductwork go? How high is it above the ceiling? You know, how big is it? With BIM modeling and 3-dimensional modeling, we're able to take each, each part and piece of that is modeled in 3 dimensions on a computer screen. So we're able to see where we have conflicts. We're able to see where a plumbing riser might run right in conflict with a column of the building, if you will, or studs within our wall panels, or How we have to fit ductwork above a door opening without impacting the structure. So by doing that in 3-dimensional modeling, and it's usually done over months periods of time, ourselves and other trades and the general contractors are able to interact and resolve those conflicts before every— anything is ever built on site. We then translate that into our manufacturing process, that model. We're able to speak to our manufacturing, our, our roll forming equipment. And tell our equipment exactly the size, length, number of holes to make in each member of the wall panel that we assemble. We'll assemble that in our site, store it on trailers, and, uh, and deliver from there. And I forget, there was a third one you asked me.

Uh, yeah, so just the field execution, but I, I think that seems fairly included in what you just talked about.

Yeah, I think the field execution piece, really, that, that conversation comes up often very early on. I, even in very early phases of design. For example, we talk to developers that want to know, I have a tight project site, how am I going to get these trailers onto the project site? How many can I get delivered in a day? Where should I put the crane? What capacity does it need to lift these? And we think of it, and this kind of goes back to my background a little bit as well, having managed the entire project site, we bring that element to it. We don't just think about what we need. We try to advise our clients on what they're going to need beyond just, just what our trade is.

Yeah, that's invaluable. And I can see how your background brings a lot more to the table, like I mentioned earlier, than somebody who might have traditionally come up in this part of the business and doesn't have that rich background. Can you talk about a little bit about the data center opportunity? I mean, obviously it's where you are, it's what your customers were asking for. Built new facilities? Are you also— is this also another part of process replication for you? Now that you've done a few, you're able to see like what the footprint is that is needed and fine-tune and obviously tailor to each client's individual needs.

That's something that we, we aim to do, right? Each project, each client has a different need. Each building's a little bit different, right? Each, each municipal township wants theirs to look maybe slightly different from the others. For one of the particular clients, they're somewhat repeatable. Like it requires new engineering each time, but they're somewhat repeatable. We're able to take similar details, similar manufacturing principles, installation principles to each one of those particular designs. One of those portfolios is all out-of-the-ground construction. Some of them are 3-story buildings that we're building, say 40, 40 to 45-foot tall panels by, you know, 10 to 12 foot wide, usually around 50,000 square feet for each project, but able to install them in about 50% of the time if you, as if you had done it in traditional construction. Same end user has other size buildings, shorter buildings, apply, able to apply it there as well. We're also working with a customer locally that is doing more of a retrofit of a building, and in that case, they came to us looking for interior, an interior solution as opposed to exterior solution. First example, we're trying to get that building enclosed, dried in faster. The faster it's dried in, all the other trades can go, and it's all about opening up that, that data center faster. Taking that speed concept to one locally, we're doing interiors. We have interior partitions that are, you know, stud framing, miscellaneous metals. We're doing blast protection mesh within the walls that's necessary to protect the the, the rooms that have a lot of batteries in them and electrical equipment in them, we're able to put a layer of fire-rated drywall on them and ship those out to site. So different solution, same type of details, but a different application and able to adjust to the project site as opposed to saying we make product ABC, pick one, and good luck trying to make it fit.

Is it primarily different or are there similarities between data centers and the other types of verticals?

I think from an engineering and constructability standpoint, there are a lot of similarities. I think what's unique about the data center world especially is the focus on time and the focus on safety and the focus on, you know, really the demand for workforce on those, on those sites. Since there's so much volume of, of data center work just locally and regionally, uh, it consumes a decent amount of workforce on the job. So that interior project that I mentioned as an example, one of the things they're trying to solve for is how many workers would they need on that site. By us being able to take that off, we alleviated one of those constraints for them. Another question we got from the data center world was about the environmental impact, if you will. Uh, we had done a white paper on what our process is. So if you take the way a traditional project might work is you have regional distributors of material that are all individually going to deliver all of their products to the site. You're gonna build it in the field. You're gonna have a fair amount of waste because nothing is custom to that job and you have a lot of travel in and out. We're able to kind of single source all of that stuff to our manufacturing shop, assemble it in one place, one delivery to that project site, and greatly reduce the amount of equipment that we need there. And in that white paper, we penciled out roughly over 3,000 gallons of diesel fuel that we were able to reduce on one project alone by the reduced amount of equipment and by condensing the travel and deliveries the way we had done it.

Wow, that's huge because obviously data centers, we hear a lot about them in the news. We hear a lot about certain counties or certain cities or states even looking at how many do we want to have in an area? You know, what impact is it going to have on the local environment? So there's that trade-off sometimes of jobs being supported in more rural communities and then, but people being up in arms about the amount of electricity that's being used, even though we know that, I mean, we're all, I have Claude running in the background of my computer all day. So we're, we're all using AI and technologies and then of course, you know, the cloud. So can you talk a little bit about some of the things that you've seen in industry, some of the, the things that we hear about as consumers that the news shows us that may or may not be true. And obviously I'm not looking at you as like the, the all and all expert, but just from your side, because you just gave us such a clear example of how you can reduce waste in construction and in building these centers. I'd love to hear more.

Yeah, I kind of joke too. I wonder if people that are writing their protests are using AI to write, write their protests about us a little bit. We certainly see it in, in different markets, the, the regional pushback or local pushback. And I, I suppose you could understand why, especially if it's new to the area. But I can say as I drive around and we you look at building sites we're doing in that Northern Virginia market and you drive around and you look at it, it, from an aesthetic impact, at least in the area, it, to me, it's not any different from if you were driving around your distribution centers that you might see in, in, you know, Northern—

Walmart or the Amazon distribution center.

Yeah. Walmart or, or even the office complexes that went up in, in the '90s.

Yeah.

As they go up. So each municipality, I think, is a little bit different. It can understand people's concern, but there's a demand, there's a need for it. I just think in terms of end user, right? You just use the example of AI, and I think we're, we're, we're all implementing it in our, in our daily lives. Say from a national, international security standpoint, it, it's, it's incredibly important. And I think there are, are more and more energy solutions. I was speaking with somebody earlier today that, you know, over the next 10 years, we're gonna see increased ways in which the electrical capacity can be brought to project sites, maybe, maybe not a popular term, would be the modular nuclear reactor, right? It's something that maybe in a decade will be more available for a cleaner energy type solution. So, you know, I think we're seeing pushback in certain markets, but they ultimately do, they do get built. We've seen some projects in other markets where it's just a matter of waiting for that electrical capacity to come online. But from my experience with them, at least, I haven't seen the environmental impact, the noise impact that I know a lot of people are concerned about.

Yeah, I, I think I was reading, and it may have been from a resource that one of your colleagues shared with me, that agricultural waste uses more water than data centers. Interestingly enough, on this very podcast, not to get a little meta, but there are ads about using natural gas as a resource. So I think people are trying to come up with active solutions, and obviously, you know, once the center is finished, that's not on Clover, but you seem to be doing a lot to mitigate. And, you know, I never personally thought about prefab being a great solution to reducing fuel costs, to reducing the imprint and the environmental impact that you're having on construction sites alone.

We didn't start out that way, and I don't know that we initially thought of it in that, but when we were challenged with really looking at it and looking at the, the workflow and the delivery stream of what it is, It opened our eyes to how we're condensing that delivery stream and how we are actually really reducing that impact on the project site. We oftentimes think of that in terms of safety. Mm-hmm. So what we're able to do at Elevations with, say, bringing a single panel onto that project site, project, and erect it with a crane would otherwise take, let's say, 4 times the amount of workforce on that job, all up in, you know, 60-foot booms. So we always think of it in terms of safety, but it made us realize that Wait, if I'm not up there and I, I, I need less equipment and what, what is that impact and how are we benefiting the job that way? You know, beyond that, it's recycled materials, recycled steel used in, used in PALs and manufacturing and, and benefit the project.

Nice. My only background in construction is that my ex-husband, when, you know, he worked in refractory on all the oil refineries. And so it's very intricate, the inside lining, the brick that can, be, you know, porous enough to be at high temperatures with gases and oil and things like that. And I think they had more of the traditional model of you have offices, maybe you have a warehouse, you do a lot of the construction on site. So the turnaround of that is that to have prefab and manufacturing where you have it, you obviously have to have pretty large footprints yourself. Is that, is that, at least that's my assumption. Is that the case?

For UnderRoof footprint, we have a good sizable footprint. We'll be at about 100,000 square feet by the end of the year. It's really about timing and workflow and understanding when your product needs to be delivered. So we always work backwards. We're able to pre-assemble components, store them in a more condensed environment, and then push them through manufacturing. We'll call it just-in-time delivery, right? We like to have at least enough stored ahead of the delivery of the project that makes sense, right? We're never building it all at once and just letting it sit out there. But it's really about like getting specific with the timing. It, it's what makes it unique and makes it challenging are really fitting those production slots for all projects combined, but then able to meet the deliveries for each individual job.

Mm-hmm. Were there any other industries that you were able to take some best practices from, whether it's me thinking about airline manufacturing or other industries that have to do with manufacturing and construction? Into the work that you do?

Yeah, you know, we think about, you know, we put our people through training on lean principles, which kind of comes from Toyota model and manufacturing. We're always looking at through our facility and what we can do better. Automation is a conversation I'd say we're having. You know, we know it's out there. There's some equipment out there that's very unique. There's some that we looked at. I was like, I want to have that, you know, like, let's get that sort of cobot. It was called a kind of a worker-assisted robot. But as we penciled out that particular one, it's like, you know what, the ROI on that one today isn't going to make the most sense, but we know we're heading in that direction. So some of the conversations we're having around the table are about preparing for that, right? We kind of envision it where as AI develops and manufacturing equipment develops, we want to be able to kind of meet it where it's going to be. So we're rethinking the way we go about the designs and go back to that BIM modeling and how we code our software and the way we use that, that in time, whether it's a year or 2 years or 3 years, is that going to be able to talk to an automated welder or an automated machine that just helps assist what we're able to do, right? Our workforce can then expand their production or expand their capacity by having the assistance of something like that. So we anticipate that that AI and that technology and that manufacturing role are going to be able to kind of meet the puck where it's going.

And I appreciate that you said assist. You didn't say replace.

No, I don't look at it like that. We have great people. I don't know. I, I, this, that's just not how we approach it, right? I think, you know, we're, we're expanding our footprint, but you've got great people that do great work, right? But if we can have a better tool, like, right, right. Where you, you know, the power tools as opposed to the hammer, right? Why wouldn't you go do that?

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really interesting to go back to talking about the culture of Clover. You talked about, is it 31? Yeah. And that you've really been addressing them on a weekly basis. And Clover itself talks about being built like a family, grounded in trust, teamwork, accountability, and pride. Those are really big statements, right? That's— those are bold statements. I think a lot of companies envision themselves being able to operate that way, but can't necessarily get there. So can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like inside the operation, especially as you scale? How do you continue to make sure that the people you're hiring— because you talked about increasing hiring capacity— hold those values and really hold them dear and are able to show up as the brand?

Well, I can tell you one thing I've learned in this role, and as we're growing and as we're hiring people, I've been challenged with, as a recruiter, as I sit in the room, what am I looking for, right? We have an executive coach that, that, that does that. It's like, what's your person description you're looking for in this role, right? Beyond the resume. And we've done that, right? We've hired based on a resume. This person's got great experience. They're plug and play. We're, we're gonna be able to just plug them in and then we're gonna hand them the work and it's gonna work out fine. And a lot of times it does, but we're spending more time thinking about what's that person's description? What's the profile of a person that's gonna do well in that role?, and we'll frame questions in the interview around maybe what some of those, those fundamentals might be, right? So what, what, tell me an example of, you know, projects you've dealt with in the past where you had to find, you know, a solution that worked both for you and your customer, right? And we'll drive into those kind of conversations to see beyond the resume, is this the right fit? And it takes longer, I'd say, to hire, especially in key roles, but I think it works out a little bit better in the long run. And then, The onboarding process involves a discussion of, of our fundamentals, the weekly publications. Right now we're in our third cycle, if you will, of the weekly fundamental going out. And what's happening today now is that I got two emails yesterday of our employees writing their viewpoint on the fundamental, which then goes out via text every Monday morning to everybody in the company via email. Repeated throughout the week, used and discussed in meetings. And I like that you're getting all these other viewpoints on it, you know, from a frontline supervisor in the shop to a, you know, worker in the field. What's their viewpoint on focusing on quality or getting clear on expectations? And so just the repeatability of it, I think, is what helps. And recognizing people for doing those things. I use it in meetings and sometimes I use them for myself. Like, I might get stuck on an issue. I gotta, all right, which, which I gotta like, what am I looking for here? Find the win-win in this, Christian. Like, you know, this year you might be stressed about it, you might be, you know, have your Irish up about it, but like, find the win-win. This is what you're supposed to do and live, live by the example.

What was the transition like? Because you've had multiple roles at Clover as well, right? Moving from COO particularly into the president role, because there is a nuance there. Did you have to really prepare yourself from those transitions from VP of Field Operations to COO to President? Was it a natural transition because of the skills and leadership you had shown? Like, what was your mind going through when you decided to step into this role?

I think it's somewhat of a natural progression and, and ideally what the path would be, right? So continually, continually working towards that. With each new role though is, uh, is understanding the other aspect of the business. So going from, you know, leading field operations to leading the overall operations of the company was really having to, you know, meet and, and really get to know all of the people within the other side of the business and like, you know, gain trust again of another, another aspect of the business, but understand what was also important to, in this case, the manufacturing plant and what's important to that as opposed to particularly on the job site. Developing that trust and, and people knowing that, you know, if they come to me with an issue, we're gonna get it resolved. I'm giving them the tools that they need and then being able to speak the vernacular, if you will, of that, of that side of the business, right? When talking with customers and walking them through the plan and tours. So it was a little bit of an adjustment there, but all right in the realm of construction, the leadership, the people that knew me from the other side of the company through the operations. And then, you know, I'd say from there, the growth into the the president role was helping develop— we have a great executive team and frontline leadership, but rethinking things I have to get off my plate possibly for, you know, for our controller, our business development, or our frontline salespeople to pick up that I need to move more towards further out thinking, 12-month out thinking, you know, 2-year out thinking and moving us in that direction. It was an adjustment.

Yeah. And thinking about that adjustment, are there things that keep you up at night when you're thinking about moving into new spaces, new parts of the region, moving into this new industry, thinking about what next for the company?

Yeah, I sleep pretty well. I'll say that. I don't, I'm not generally up all night, but it's just our people, honestly. I, I, you know, what drives me or motivates me aside from the challenge of a build or construction is our people. I, I, they're my people. I'm responsible for everybody. So making the decisions and moving us in the right direction that I might not have it, you know, all perfect and we're, you know, and to the point where you're trying to get it perfect that you don't move forward, but do it in a way that's responsible for our people, that provides them opportunities, projects that they're proud of, keeps them secure, keeps us moving in the right direction, you know, maintains the financial, you know, responsibility of the company. Like that, I carry the weight of that for the, for really every individual that works for me.

And is there advice that you'd give to somebody who's looking at entering the field? Where should they start? Should they call somebody like you to try to get informational interview? Should they start with working in the trades and figuring out what the best job opportunities are?

I talked to a couple people lately that are in like the kind of the, the, the younger age or the college age figuring it out. And I had somebody ask me like, well, should I do this or do that? I don't know. Well, which do you like better? You know, do you like designing it or do you like building it? And go, you know, start going in that direction. Go towards the thing you like. Maybe not necessarily what you, what somebody, or you think somebody thinks you should do. That being said, I'd say whatever that is, whatever that direction is, if it's designing or building or being hands-on, go closest to wherever that work is. Go closest to wherever, if it's designing, go closest to, you know, an architecture firm where you can learn how to, you know, put drawings together and like, you know, start from the basics. If it's, if it's somewhere in the construction world, be out on a project site, you know, or a manufacturing floor and like get to know what those skilled tradespeople do and what's important to them or how things actually go together. Don't assume you know anything because those people that have been doing it a long time, there's a lot to learn from people. It's a relationship business, right? Uh, trying to be right all the time, you're gonna I kind of think of it like the boomerang, right? You're going to die on the hill of some issue and think you're always right. It's going to come around that next week and hit you. So, so be humble. Go closest to wherever the work is in the general direction you want to be and learn every day. Yeah.

Wonderful. That's such great advice. So that's great advice for any industry, not just for construction. Kristin, this is the kind of conversation I do love to have. Talk about innovation and when we're thinking about things in different ways, or when we're providing one kind of solution, but we realize it also solves for a whole array of other things that people might have an issue with or might be wondering about. And I, I do see that that's the path you're on. You talked a little bit about where you see the future going in terms of automations, having more tools, maybe robotic tools that can help aid and assist with the work, but still being able to really keep that human component. And I think that's And I think that's really the kind of conversation we need to be having as we're looking at the future of work, what businesses will need to do. It's not a one or the other, it's both working together. So that's really beautiful.

Thank you. No, I agree. I think we've— AI is gonna be a great tool for us in terms of solution, but you still need somebody to decipher and figure out if it's right or figure out if something you made went together correctly. I don't see us getting away from the human element of it. Yeah.

So for those who are listening who might want to learn more, connect with you, explore how Clover might help them with a project, or perhaps they're interested in going into the field and what you're doing really excites them, where would you like them to reach out?

I think the best place to reach out, check out our website, cloverinc.com. That's Clover with a K. You can check out what we do, our portfolio. We have a Connect With Us link that'll direct straight to me or our business development manager. I had about 2 of those today and we'll get together. We're very accustomed to getting involved early at napkin sketches of a job and helping you figure out how to do it.

Fantastic. And I always ask, do you have a favorite quote, mantra, poem, verse, family motto, or maybe some of the core values that you espouse on a weekly basis for the company that you'd like to share that continue to inspire you every day?

Yeah, I'll give you one of our fundamentals I like is be relentless about improvement. So don't accept the status quo or just because you did it a certain way doesn't mean it's still the best way. Keep looking for ways to do something better. Innovate, whether it's faster or less expensive, safer, just keep finding ways to do that. I think just generally in life, if you can even make incremental improvements in your day, we all feel that. And don't get hung up on the perfection. It's kind of, you know, action over accuracy, right? Move in the right direction and adjust as you need to as you go and keep improving.

Yeah. And that is truly humanity. That's the— you're saying some things that I think I've seen as a through line in a lot of conversations I've had on this show lately. Thinking about moving, not waiting until everything is perfect, right? But actually making decisions, moving forward, testing, trying, iterating, trying to have improvements in your life, in your line of work, in your business, and bringing that humanity along with the technology. Together in partnership, again, not as replacements. So, I really appreciate having this conversation. I don't have a lot of people who come from the construction industry necessarily coming to talk about this, but again, I'm seeing a lot of similarities to things other people are seeing in their own industries. So, I, you've opened my eyes and I really appreciate that you've brought this to share with all of us listening on Your Brand Amplified. So, thank you, Christian.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about it.

Yeah, and thank you to everybody who is listening to this episode. Think about one thing you can take away. Maybe it's one of the core values of the company. Maybe it's thinking about innovation in your own field. Maybe you are working on a project that needs this type of innovation from Clover. Just think about that and how you can make your life a little bit better in your life, your business, and your industry every day. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Amplified, don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.