S E763: How to Separate True Intuition From Business Fear with Katie Krimitsos

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And so I was really paying attention to analytics, and I started just noticing— I would grab like, okay, what are my top 10 episodes? And I would always experiment. I still do. I always experiment with that main show, and I'd be like, let me put on some morning episodes, let me put on some sleep ones, let me put on some stories. Like, let me just see what, what people like. And so I was experimenting with a lot of sleep episodes and I would notice, not a lot, but like I would throw 'em in every once in a while. And for like 2 or 3 months straight, I would pick up my analytics of my top 10 shows and 8 out of 10 of them were all the sleep ones. And I was like, okay.

Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. Today we're gonna talk about one of the most counterintuitive business pivots I've heard and how it led to a media empire that 170 million people are listening to. I love the fact that you're here, Katie Kremitsos. You're the founder and CEO of Women's Meditation Network, and you were running a successful podcast for women entrepreneurs called Biz Women Rock. It was working. And then you felt an intuitive pull to walk away from it entirely and launch something different, guided meditation specifically for women. And let me tell you, I was listening to one right before the show because I feel like I really need that today. You know, most people would've gone, why are you leaving something that was successful and starting something else? But you actually identified a market gap, and this is something we're gonna talk about today, how you built the operation, how you run it. While raising daughters, staying intentional about the way you work, and, you know, making that big pivot. So Katie, thank you so much for being on Your Brand Amplified today.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Well, let's first talk about your journey into media, into podcasting specifically. What was it that brought you in and guided you towards starting a podcast for other women entrepreneurs?

So back in 2013, my husband and I were, oh my gosh, a few years in, probably about 4 or 5 years into running a local business owners organization in the Tampa Bay area. And it had, it was going great. We, it was sort of like a chamber of commerce for entrepreneurs. And so what my job was within that company as a, as a co-owner was like organizing the events. Getting people to come, get, getting speakers to come. It was an event-driven, community-based organization. And so at one of these events that we put on, so we were constantly bringing in educators to talk about different ways, different parts of marketing, business growth, you know, team growth, all that sort of stuff. Anyway, in 2013, one of the speakers that we had came in and talked about podcasting. And it was a, like we had heard, we knew podcasts, right? But what struck me about what he was saying was how quickly and massively the reach could go. And so we were spending so much time every single month and so much marketing effort and dollars and energy trying to get 100 people in a room for our big event, right? And here he was, he was getting 5,000 people listening every single week to something he was doing in his closet. And it— the scale of that just really kind of opened my eyes and And I really felt like I saw the business side of it immediately. I was like, okay, this is like a brand builder. Like, this is a way to build a community and sort of to do what we were doing on the ground. Like, I could do this in a virtual space. And so I immediately, I had fallen in love with entrepreneurship by that point and was like, okay, well, I love entrepreneurship and I'm a woman from a woman's perspective. Like, it, it would be really, I feel like I could talk about that forever. So I just started, I was like, well, let me start this podcast. It was called Biz Women Rock. And I started it February of 2014. And no joke, I launched, and when I launched, there was, there were, when I launched, there were 3 of us who were women hosts talking to women business owners. 3. I'm happy to say that the market is saturated now because there's so many voices and so many amazing women out there. But Uh, and we all became really good friends. We all helped support each other, but it definitely was an open space for me to use this medium that was relatively new. I mean, I still remember having to go out and tell people what a podcast was and how to download it and use it, right? Or how to press play on one. So I remember feeling really energized about being able to share other women's voices and experiences and, and CEO experience and entrepreneur journeys, like and it was an interview show. And so I just was very interested. And then over the course of year— of the years that it existed, I eventually was like, oh, well, people see me as an expert and they want to work with me. They want to coach with me. Okay, that was kind of surprising. So I'll do that. And so eventually it built out this really amazing business that is very obvious and out there a lot these days, which is like kind of the, the influencer, the person, the knowledgeable person who is You know, helping people through coaching. I did masterminds. I did live retreats. I did live events. I had online courses. I had membership. I had all the things, very thriving Facebook groups, Facebook pages, communities, all that sort of stuff. So I loved it. And that I saw the power of podcasting through that experience.

And that's truly amazing because obviously many of us came to realize that we should be podcasting later. I mean, I, I think it was a couple years after your journey that I started having a radio show, but even then, and I was like, I was a guest on a couple podcasts, but the idea of actually having a podcast didn't even strike me until of course right before the pandemic when, and then the pandemic, we all like, when everyone started a podcast, right?

Continued, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So I love hearing your journey and hearing that it was something that you were really able to get into, something you're passionate about, something that was obviously your area of expertise as well, the business side, helping other people and other women in business. What made you walk away from that and decide to start something differently? And we should also mention that your husband suggested the meditation idea.

He did. So here's the whole story. That was 2014 that I started. In 2015, about a year and a half later, I had my first daughter, and somewhere along that way, I sort of like finagled and created this, you know, mompreneur equation, balance management kind of a thing. And I loved it.

I—

it was really, really special. And then fast forward, it was 20—

the beginning of—

it was January of 2018. And the prior year, so the month before, I just closed the books at my first six-figure year. I was like, sweet, this is awesome! Because I was sort of— I really don't want to I don't want to misrepresent this, like I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was like legit figuring it out. Like, yes, I had a business brain, but like I was working through a bunch of like, am I good enough? How do I do this? Are people going to really want this? I don't know. Can I build it out? I don't. So I can look back now and say like, wow, it was a slow process for me to sort of like get clients, build, you know, a community and do something that I felt fulfilled with doing it right. But I did, and I loved it. And so I hit this 6-figure mark, and it's January. I'm sort of putting the final pieces on the big vision of the year, and it was great. And I was like, okay, we're— I'm gonna triple business, I'm gonna triple the growth. I'm— everything's great, I'm so excited. And a couple months later, we found out we were pregnant with our second daughter. And it's just the magic of the divine, right? Like, immediately I just heard the whisper that was like, you're done with this. Voice, which was terrifying. Terrifying. Now I've had enough experience listening to my intuition to know what she sounds like. I know when to listen, when to not, like, so I knew it was like a real voice. And so I was really scared because that was a shocker. And like, I'm like, well, last week I was just like loving this. Like, no, I'm going, I'm going in this trajectory, right? Like, is this really, am I just self-sabotaging? Am I? What am I doing? And so during, it was April, I remember, of 2018. And as soon as I heard that voice, I was like going on walks with my husband every day. And every single day I would just, he was amazing and would just sort of like let me vomit out all of the emotions and feelings. Right. And one day it was like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to dig in and I'm going to make this a 7-figure business. And, you know, babies always make it better, get me more focused. And then the next day I'd be like, screw this, I'm gonna be a stay-at-home mom, I'm not doing any of this stuff, and everything in between. So a few weeks into that, that was very painful. Like, it's a very— when you're sort of in the throes of like a, like a transition or like a, like the messy middle, it's really— time feels like it slows down and it's very painful because you want clarity and you want to move, right? And but I didn't have either of those things, and so One of these walks, I'm talking, I finished talking, and my husband looks at me and he says, well, what about that meditation idea? What he was referring to was back in January when I was putting together my plan for the year, I had had an idea about expanding the podcast kind of network, right? I had this one podcast. I was like, what if I do a meditation podcast for women? Because my experience with the women I was coaching was we needed help here. Our mindsets, right? And I wasn't a meditation teacher, but I was like, I, I think like that would be really cool to be able to do that. But I didn't do anything with it. But here he was knowing the market and had already done the research on what was going on. He's like, well, what about that meditation idea? And I'm like, what about it? And he's like, what about it? And that was the seed that planted in me. And within a half an hour, girl, I knew. I was like, I know it's the Women's Meditation Network. I could see very clearly I was like, oh, it's— this is the next evolution of my work here in this world that I could feel fulfilled by, which did not make sense to anyone else. And you, you mentioned this in your introduction, like, yeah, like, I had plenty of those people going like, what in the world are you doing? This is a total non-sequitur. It doesn't seem like— they did not know me as— no one knew I meditated. No one knew me as with a meditation voice. This is me. This is how I talk. I'm talking business. I'm talking lots of really cool strategy, right? Yeah. So to all sudden tell people that I was going to slow it down and help them walk through their breath, they were like, mm-mm, no, we don't see that, you're gonna fail. But I knew enough. It was a very nubile stage. So, you know, my biggest advice with people who are in the messy middle right now is to be very choosy over who you share your ideas with and keep them close to the vest because people can wreck them and crush them really easily because you're still unsettled in them. So that was where I was. And so I was really clear, like, I really I just shared it with— I would talk it over with my husband and maybe like one or two other people, and that was it. But it was enough for me to gain a little bit of clarity and confidence to be like, I'm gonna try this. And in 2018, I still can't believe this, I would go search on Apple Podcasts and even on Spotify, and I would type in meditation and women, and one podcast came up. I was like, you've got to be kidding. It was like the divine sign from the universe. I was like, you've got to be kidding me that this space is still open. Like, what Where are we? And I, my immediate answer to that, my gut was like, I have something to contribute here. I have something to contribute that would be really beautiful and pure and meaningful to the women who were searching. So I started very ugly. Like, I, I'm a writer, so I was like, well, let me write the scripts and then let me, I know I thankfully have had podcasting experience that I could completely bypass the tech, the process, all that stuff. And I remember putting, putting my mouth to the mic on that first one, and I'm embarrassed by the first few episodes that I did. We all are, you know, we all are. But I did it, and I'm really proud of myself that I did it. And I felt, you know, I've always— even now, like, there's always a level of fear that I think is a healthy fear that keeps us moving forward and keeps not complacent. But I, in Biz Women of Rock, I had enormous depths of fear that always held me back and I think held and kept the trajectory and the, the true reach of that business a lot more shallow than it could have been. But here I was like, I had a weird sense of confidence about it that I had a little bit of fear. I had, I had moments of like, who the hell am I to show up to, I don't know, meditation? Like I've been a meditator since I was 19. I'm a practitioner. From that vantage point, I absolutely have the right to show up here, but like, I ain't got no credentials. Like, no, I, I don't think I've ever given a public meditation. But I, that would bypass pretty quickly and I would just stay so focused on like the big vision. And so I would show up to it and as I think happens, and I've come to learn happens when we're aligned. Meaning when we're doing what we say and what we believe, the universe responds and we're given messages that remind us that we're on the right path. So Girl Within, I launched that show in July of 2018, and by October, the download numbers were exceeding my, however, 6-year-old, 5, 6-year-old show. And I was like, okay, I think there's a need for this. So I just kept going and for, for about a year and a half, you know, you, you made it sound like this nice, beautiful, and it could be easy to see that like, oh, I just let it go and I started this over here. It was not easy, nor was it pretty. Like it was about a year and a half of this like multi-layered transition. So I started that podcast. I was still doing my other podcast, still doing that other business, pregnant with baby 2, having a toddler. And within about a year and a half, sort of had the baby, had the, the growing toddler, had, you know, pared down the Biz Women Rock business, kept investing in the Women's Meditation Network and sort of like continuing to figure that out until finally I officially like gave my goodbye speech to the Biz Women Rock community and then officially went on full-blown into it, into Women's Meditation Network. And that, that was sort of the beginning of the end of that transition, but the beginning of like, oh shit, now I'm like, now let's— it's go time, right? And then that was January of 2020, so then it was COVID.

More divine timing.

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More divine timing.

Yeah. So let's talk about your journey into figuring out how to recognize when you should listen to your intuition, when you shouldn't, because I think a lot of us do have that fear, right? And so that we either hold ourselves back or we don't feel like we're enough. And so we don't always trust that voice, or when we trust it, we are listening to the wrong signals, wrong messages. And maybe it's not the actual intuition voice, it's this other voice over here that sounds similar but is slightly different.

Yeah.

Yes, I love that question, and I think it's such a pertinent topic to really unlayer because I feel like I only have known this and discovered this after almost really 8 years of doing the Women's Meditation Network, that the reason I love meditation and the reason I really love sharing it is because I think it's one of the most powerful tools for deep self-awareness. And so to ultimately answer your question, one of, not the only, but one of the most powerful ways that we can get to know the difference between what I call the voice and the noise. There is a difference between those two voices and the, the way that you get to know the difference and you're able to get better at distinguishing the two is practice knowing yourself. And meditation can be a really good tool. Exercise and movement is a really good tool. Journaling is a really good tool, but stillness is this really beautiful opportunity for us to get really familiar with like our souls. And most of us don't want to sit still because we have a lot of shit that comes up and the noise that we hear, it's not just like, oh, my brain can't shut down. It's, it's not that, like really what that's indicative of, of like, I don't want to see what's really here. You know, I'm either scared of what I actually do know to be true or whatever I know to be true is too big, you know what I mean? And so the answer to that question is really practicing. The ultimate answer is getting to know thyself, and it's through practice. So one of the— this, I love it. So I have a course called Meditate to Magic, and it actually walks people through this process of like, hey, how do you get to know the difference between the voice and the noise? We can do it by practicing small little things. For example, Listening when you're hungry, right? Like actually listening to your body and saying, what would you like to eat? What will nourish you right now? Rather— and actually having a pause to listen to the answer to what your intuition is actually telling you. And what you— the kind of noise you have to get through is what I should eat. Is it time to eat? Is it the most optimal time to eat for metabolic, you know, burning, like No, like, what did I eat before? What am I going to eat later? Like, really, it's like, let me actually get to know my body. What is my body screaming for right now? What is it craving? And if we're honest with what that is and then actually take action on what we hear our intuition telling us, that is one really great, beautiful, not so dramatic way to just practice listening practice taking action on that intuition and feeling the alignment that comes from that, right? So you can do that in these small ways, same little thing, and it all comes from like this moment's pause. So in making any decision throughout the day, is it like, okay, do I really wanna do that? Like, does that feel like it would be really good? And I practice this all the time in conversations with my husband, all the time. Because when we're in these intimate relationships, right, like what your ego wants to say ain't always the best thing for the relationship, right? So they— I have learned very imperfectly, but I have learned over time like to take this pause and to really ask myself like, what are the words that I need in order to like respect this relationship but say what I need to say? And then you listen for what comes up, right? And you learn the best By messing up and getting it wrong. So you can practice in all these really small ways that don't really have massive ripple effects if you quote unquote choose wrong, which I don't believe you actually can choose wrong. I just feel like you, you can practice that and the more reps that you get, the stronger that muscle is. So by the time my, my voice whispered to me in 2018, I had had decades of experience listening to that voice. And like making small decisions based on that voice, making big, big, big girl decisions based on that voice to quit my job years prior to that, to quit my softball or quit my— make a decision towards what I wanted that whose side effect was for me to let go of all of my paid-for college scholarships that I got. Like there were really big decisions that I had practiced making along the way in adulthood. Based on what my intuition was really telling me so that by the time 2018 came around, I knew what the right answer was. Now, it doesn't mean that it made it an easy decision. It just meant like I already knew what my soul wanted and what was best for my soul. My job was to make sure it was a clean and clear decision. So the questions of, am I self-sabotaging? Is that really what this is? Those are valid questions that I needed to unlayer to just make sure, like, let me just make sure, right? So I really believe like the more we practice listening to our intuition in the smaller ways, the more confident we get with listening to our intuition and taking action, taking aligned action in the bigger ways. And when you do that, what happens on the other end is what we call manifestation, right? It's like you end up creating this life based on an aligned life, like, like where your thoughts, your beliefs, and your actions are all aligned. And when we feel out of sorts, when we feel depressed, when we feel frustrated, when we feel sad, when we feel anxiety, like that's misalignment. And so the answer is to come back inside. I'm going off onto a big, big tangent.

No, but I love it. I love it. That's, that's, you know, that's one of the things I love though, because I'm resonating with everything you're saying. I'm also thinking back to, you said that you realized like a lot of your clients also needed mindset work. They needed that shift. And I'm seeing that too. With the, I mean, I primarily work with women and the women I'm working with, they know that they want to do something, but they don't always feel like they can. And so I'm like, all right, let me, let's do some mindset work too. Let's, you know, and I do a Zen program with a former Zen monk. And so I'm like, let me walk you through this and this. And like, let's do that alignment on top of like the business stuff that we're going through to get your brand out there or do your business research or your podcast or your book or whatever the case may be. So yeah, 100%. Yeah. Love all of that.

You know, you know, business, it's like that you're, I would imagine your sessions were like mine in the sense that it's like, it's 20% strategy and like tech business tactics and 80% mindset, if not further, you know, 90/10. So it's all, you know, the business stuff is pretty easy peasy, simple, right? But it's the mindset stuff that, that really is where we need to sharpen The, the acts, you know.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I wanna get into some of the tactical stuff for the podcast, for the new podcast in terms of the success. Yes, you were a first mover. This is very aligned with who you are, your spirit. Did you advertise? Did you market it? Did you make sure the SEO was top-notch? What were some of the things that you think also attributed to you being able to have success?

Yes. Everything I'm about to say, I want to make sure you hear is not like the ideal blueprint. It just worked for me at the time, but take it and add it to your toolbox, right? So one of the things I did right away is I allocated budget for paid ads and paid ads on market, on podcast apps. So anywhere, any podcast app that I could get that would allow me to pay to have a banner ad. I would do that. And I still to this day have a spreadsheet that shows like, well, how much did it cost for me to do that? Therefore, how much, how much, what is the cost per subscriber, right? Or per follower. So sometimes, you know, I dip my toe in the waters with like, let me spend $70. Let me show, share the way that I started that, which was I immediately sort of for free would try to go get featured in some of these podcast apps. And I'm not talking about the big ones. I'm talking about like Castbox is one. Oh my God, there's a gazillion of them, like all these small little, relatively small little podcast apps, right? And I would just go and see like, if can I get any like free— a lot of them will say like, oh, you know, this is the new and featured or whatever it is. And then I would look at those numbers and say, well, who, even though it might have only been like 2% of my audience because it was a smaller app, what was the actual growth that came from that feature? And then I would then spend marketing dollars with that. So it might have been $75 to grow, you know, just to put in there. Cause I would have already seen that it works. And then slowly but surely that would rise over the years to the point, I think at our max, we don't do this anymore, but you know, my, my ad spend for like podcast app ads would be anywhere from $5,000 to $15,000 a month, depending on what show we were featuring. If we had a new podcast coming out, if we wanted to really like blow the things out of the water. But that, again, that was a baby step up the whole time being able to do that. So that was one way that was very successful. Let me not sugarcoat it either though. Like I made a decision early on very intentionally because I was coming from the business that required my butt to be in the seat in order to make money. And although I could do that very successfully, and I'm not saying it's not possible to do this, I knew that I wanted time freedom over everything. I was about to have a newborn and a toddler. And even though my community was amazing and would give me a lot of grace, I didn't want to have to be on a call. I wanted to be able to do the moneymaker stuff from my closet at bedtime and nap time. And so that's what I did. And so I knew in order for me to do that back then, the business model that I foresaw was very much one of like your typical broadcasting model, which was I knew I was going for a large audience, CPM model, that kind of stuff. I wasn't going to be handholding specific advertisers and doing all those things myself. Like I just, I didn't, I didn't want to do that. So I say that because that was why the numbers were important to me. That was why I was willing to spend money, spend $1,000 to put marketing in to get me more downloads that would earn me more money on the CPM end. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. So.

That said though, I wanna make sure you hear that it took me 3 years before I was in the black. Like I was in the red for 3 years in that company because even in the middle, I wanna say by a year and a half, 2 years in, we took out a second mortgage with cash out and put it in the business specific. And the majority of that money was spent on app marketing. So like I was all in on like, I'm gonna figure out how to make this work and make it But I, I knew, and my husband would always remind me, he's like, but when, when you go in the black, it's going to flip high. Like it's going to go fast. And it did. So the definitive marketing and the pointed paid marketing was one really great strategy. Another really great strategy that has worked consistently throughout the years is cross-promos. So I would find other podcasts that were, had similar audiences who we could both benefit from. And then we would share episodes. Right now, even we do a lot of like, like episode swaps. So for example, a lot of my podcasts, I do a lot of episode swaps with like other sleep shows. So I'll share about, because if you're listening to a sleep meditation of mine, you might like to listen to so-and-so's sleep podcast that does sleep stories or, you know, sleep hypnosis. So we do a lot of that. So we share audiences. So they cross-pollinate, which is great. And that's always been a really steady flow of new listeners. And then the benefit of having the network is we have 24 podcasts now. The benefit of having the network is that they can all cross-promote each other. So I'll happily admit that I'm not nearly as good about that as I should be, but like, there's— we do it, we just can always do it better, right? But so those are just some of the very kind of like basic bare-bones ways that really worked in the beginning. And then also in the beginning, it was a big— I absolutely dipped into my Biz Women Rock community to sort of seed the Women's Meditation Network community. So even though it wasn't an ideal crossover, at the end of the day, I was like, okay, I have this— I have a Facebook group of 5 or 6,000. I have a Facebook page with like 80,000. Like, I have a community of listeners. I'm getting 5,000 downloads a month of really active listeners. Like, how can I use that? And so I would do all these contests. I would give away free coaching. I would do all sorts of stuff if they would subscribe, if they would give me a comment and rating and review and just like share about it in any way. So I was doing all these like really cool funky contests in the beginning to basically take whatever I could from Biz Women Rock to help it seed the Women's Meditation Network.

Nice. Yeah, and I asked you that question specifically because I— this is what I tell other people too who want to start podcasts or any business— you have to invest in all areas. So you can't just do organic marketing, you have to have budget. And it is an investment. It was 3 years until I realized that I actually had a viable business, not just something I was putting a lot of money into on the side. That was like the one consistent thing was my podcast, no matter what else— what other job I had over the years. So yeah, it does take time, but you have to understand, like, you have to make sure that you're planning to make sure that you have budget. So I really appreciate— and I appreciate all the other things you said about the cross-promos. And I— that was the next question I had, because you started out with meditation, then you got into sleep, What was the impetus behind saying, ooh, this is actually fodder for an entire network of podcasts?

Well, I knew it was a network on that walk with my husband. I knew it was a network because the niche of women is, is way too big, right? Like, so I was like, well, no, there are these types of women or these women who like to listen during morning and nighttime. And like, there's all sorts of things that we could do. So I already knew that it was a network. From the get-go, but I just started with Meditation for Women, which was my very first podcast. And that was the one I, you know, I started with. I did it once a week. And then at the year and a half mark, when I was, you know, had just let Biz Women Rock go, my baby was a year old at that point. I felt like I had some grasp on reality again. And COVID came along and my numbers spiked. It's sad. And I'm also grateful that I was there at a moment when a lot of people needed what I had. And so I remember March of 2020 hitting like my first 100,000 download month. And I was like, ooh, awesome. And so I was really paying attention to analytics and I started just noticing I would grab like, okay, what are my top 10 episodes? And I would always experiment. I still do. I always experiment with that main show. And I'd be like, let me put on some morning episodes. Let me put on some sleep ones. Let me put on some stories. Like, let me just see what, what people like. And so I was experimenting with a lot of sleep episodes and I would notice, not a lot, but like I would throw them in every once in a while. And for like 2 or 3 months straight, I would pick up my analytics of my top 10 shows and 8 out of 10 of them were all the sleep ones. And I was like, okay. So the natural obvious thing was like, okay, I'm going to launch a sleep meditation for women podcast. The trash in my head was like, I don't have time for that. How am I going to do that? And I just said, okay, let me take current, I think I had maybe 12 current episodes on my original show. And I was like, let me just seed that, that show. And then maybe once a month I'll create a new one. Well, it happened to be at the time that I was sort of partnering with Spotify. It just sort of happened organically and they helped promote that show and that show skyrocketed past the original. And it still is my number one show. And so it skyrocketed past to the point where I was like, oh shit, I need to create regular content for this show. And then I'm thinking like, how many things can I say? How many times can I say close your eyes, relax your body, and go to sleep? Right? But I have found so many ways to be able to give relaxation at the nighttime after all of these years. And so I just figured out how to do it. Same process for launching Morning Meditation for Women 6 months later. And like over the course of 2 years, probably I went on this like like really aggressive, like, what other show am I launching? What am I launching? So we went from the one show to, oh my gosh, probably 8 shows within like a year or two. So, and it was just a matter of scaling, but being wise with how I was scaling because I didn't want it to scale my time in the same manner. Obviously with, you know, a little baby and a toddler, I was like, okay, how do we do this in a way that's manageable? So I just came up with really clear processes and had other people join on for, you know, how we could do everything. And, and still to this day, that's still really how we roll is that there's, we have team members who now these days I actually don't do the writing anymore. I have a write, I have a dedicated writer. I, I'm the voice for the vast majority of them. And we have audio producer, two video producers. And so like, it just sort of like runs the wheel. Nice.

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Yeah, and I've noticed this. I mean, I myself have multiple podcasts. They're varied in content. So, you know, and I know other people who also have networks and maybe have multiple shows, but then also invite other people to be part of the networks as long as the content How do you choose, you know, what show to launch next, who you want in your network, and then what are some of the benefits of being part of a network?

All of my 24 shows are 100% owned by me, so I don't have anyone who has had their own separate show who has then come onto the network yet. I know that is a way to grow. I haven't really wanted to do that quite yet. That's not true. I have one that I acquired. To, I think a year ago. I have one that I acquired a year ago that again, my voice is not on it. It's her own separate brand. She does her own thing and it is actually like very gender neutral. It's not women focused, but I still own 100% of that, right? So, you know, I explained how I sort of like launched some of those ones in the earlier days. And again, that's always been the driver of like, what's the audience saying according to what we're putting out? What do they want more of? So that's been a big driver for what I launched. But also, it's kind— it's a little bit of looking at trends and also a little bit of just intuitive guidance on when to do more and when to stop. So, I mean, there is a period of probably 2 or 3 years really where I didn't launch anything new because I felt like I was still getting my bearings with the 20 shows that we had, right? And I was like, oh. And but last year we launched 3, 3 shows. We launched Meditation for Menopause. And perimenopause. That was a little like trendy, right? So I'm like, okay, this stuff, I'm 47. So I'm like, okay, this is definitely like a big conversation out now. There's a lot of potential here. And so we've launched that show and it's had slow growth over time, which has been great. Meditation for travel, just because I think that's a big pain point that people would find. And then meditation for birthdays and celebrations was our other one that we launched that it like, you know, my 35th birthday, I have a meditation for me, my retirement, I have a meditation. So I'm at a point where I don't want to launch more. I'm very—

what—

because one of the draw— I'll tell you the pros, but one of the cons about having a network whose content is all aligned and connected is that it's, it's a really big ship to turn. So I'll give you this really real life example. Okay. Very vulnerable example. So we know that things podcasting wise are in the direction of video content, right? And so in January, I started it. Now we had it, we've had a YouTube channel for the majority of all these years too. It's never really gotten the amount of love and attention it really needs to explode, but it's, it's a respectable channel. So we've been creating video content, but like January of this year, 2026, was the first time I was like, I need to start putting out video content so it goes to all the platforms that it is allowed to go to. And that has taken a lot of like unraveling our processes, re-raveling them again. And so I started experimenting just with our Sleep Meditation for Women show, because that's the one that we have the most content for already, that we have the most videos. But I've spent, where are we, 6 months now having to go back into that catalog and say, okay, video producers, I need you. Hey team, I need you guys to now go create this, but it can't have the YouTube, you know, stuff on there, it has to be, you know, branded differently. And so there's, there's that work to do and it's only on one show. So like I haven't been able to go full in on our 23, uh, I'm sorry, the, the 3 new ones I mentioned last that we did last year, those are all video heavy already. But like the, all those other shows, I haven't done the work to do that video content first. I'm starting to kind of sprinkle them in as I, as we create them. But that's an overhaul of content, you know what I mean? To now go back into the catalog and like be like, okay, we now need to make all these videos. So that's the drawback is that making necessary turns to kind of keep up with the times and keep evolving as a company definitely take longer and they're more effort. The pro is that they all benefit from each other, right? And the pro is that you've got the the benefit of the mass. So, you know, where, for example, if one podcast isn't doing so well, you know, we have about our top 4 or 5 shows pretty much carry the network. So not all of our shows are very big. Like, we have a podcast called Meditation for Moms, which is a smaller show. It probably gets about 3,000 downloads a month. We have Meditation for Panic Attacks, which probably gets about 2 to 3 1,000 downloads per month. So we have these, you know, we have like a meditation for kids one that I just wanted to experiment and put different ones out there. So like, you know, that might get like 1,000, maybe 2,000 a month. So it enables me to play with those concepts, have a little bit of an audience for it, but not need to go big on every single show. And they can, financially speaking, they can be carried by the other ones. So it allows me a little playing playing room to be able to fulfill a niche and to experiment without diverting too much of the resources to it. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Now I, and I obviously I'm selfishly asking all these questions for myself and the many people I know who are, listen, who want to start a podcast or have a podcast, but haven't seen the growth and, you know, haven't maneuvered around some of these issues yet. So I really appreciate you kind of breaking down a lot of the process that you've had to go through. And the note that not every show has to be the huge moneymaker if you have, you know, collective.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

What other opportunities has this led to? Are you also, I mean, you said, I, I know you said you had a couple of courses. Are you doing workshops? Are you doing mostly in-person, online? What are the other things that have come out of this beautiful, you know, collective that you've created?

Yeah. Thank you for asking that question. So it's You know, it's really interesting and I want to be really real here in the sense that there are so many things I'm working on right now that I quote unquote should have done from the beginning 8 years ago.

We're all there.

And we're, for all the different reasons, I just haven't wanted to because the immediate assumption is that like, oh, Katie, you're like putting on online live, you know, meditation training and all that sort of stuff. I'm like, I have never wanted that. Like that has me being in person. It just, it's not that I don't love my listeners and don't want to nourish and, you know, grow that community, but that isn't how I've wanted to do it. I think because so much of my present time and activity is really dedicated to raising my girls, right? And I, and so I want to be able to come and work and then close it down. And anyway, but I've had moments when I've experimented with that stuff. So there's been 2, I would say 2 categories of other really cool opportunities that have come out of this. Now, only recently in the past year-ish, oh gosh, maybe when did I launch my course? In February of this year. So only for the past like 5, 6 months have I actually had product of my own that I could sell to people, right? That I could offer to people. And so I have a course called Meditate to Magic, which is all about how to use the tool of meditation to get to know yourself and create a life that you love. And I'm really passionate about that, right? And that ain't the most popular reason that people come to, to me, right? Not everyone wants personal development and transformation. That happens to be what I love about it. And so I'm so happy that I have that out there. But the reason people come to me, top 3 reasons: I need help sleeping, I'm anxious and stressed and overwhelmed, or like I'm dealing with midlife and, you know, and some trans— messy middle type of an experience. So that's what I'm building out right now is like, I have my whole like kind of sleep process and funnel and courses. And these are like $44 courses that, you know, I'm able to, to give to people. And so like, that's all the stuff that is being built out now that can sort of like be part of the whole flywheel experience of bringing people in, giving them what they're asking for and needing, giving them complimentary things that will help every step along the way. So that's all happening now. So to answer that question, that category is really building out my own products that can really help give women what they need, no matter what part of their journey that they're in. The second completely different awesome opportunity that it's given me is one of the things I'm really proud of is that from very early on, I saw my actual meditation itself, that MP3 file, or in this case now video files, MP4 files, right? As the product. So I was like, very early on, I was like, how can I sell this product elsewhere? So I very early on got onto other meditation apps like Insight Timer. Aura is one. I was distributing it through some of these, like, you know, other distribution channels, things like that. And so for all of these years, that is a source of income where I am sort of a scene, depending on what the language is that the app uses, but I'm a contributor, a coach, a meditation person. And so just by nature of me putting my content there, I earn money every time somebody listens. And recently, one evolution of that is that I— my meditations have been licensed by another very popular app, and specifically for menopause stuff, which is cool. And so, and there's a lot of potential there to go deeper with some stuff there. So, and I'm in the process of having another conversation tomorrow with somebody else who we can sort of co-create a new product in the, the market that's already using what I have and just kind of packaging it in a new way. So that's the exciting stuff because for me, that's sort of like, that gets us into like a really beautiful way to maximize reach and to maximize impact and to maximize revenue. That's like a giant win-win-win. So that, that gets to be pretty fun. Yeah.

And your daughters, do they meditate? Do they like meditating? Do you see them following your footsteps?

Yes.

Yeah, they definitely meditate. They've, you know, they were introduced to the idea of meditation very, very early on, of course, but they, we really do it like at nighttime. So my daughter's still, both of them go to bed with listening to one of my 10-hour, I have like 8-hour and 10-hour sleep meditations. So I just like press play and like leave it there in the room and they get to go to bed with mommy's voice, just like relaxing them and calming them. They don't sit down to do a morning meditation. Session, but they know what meditation is. They— I have actively taught them about the pausing. And, you know, have helped my daughter in one particular instance, although this has happened many times with whether we should change schools or not. And, you know, she was old enough to be part of that decision. And so I was like, hey, why don't you go sit down and take a couple deep breaths and meditate about it and tell me what your— tell me what your intuition says. And so like, she's getting to see the, the power of it that way, you know?

Yeah, I love that. Anytime— I mean, I'm also, you know, I have a daughter, and so anytime we can do things that help them, that help them with those little nudges to trust their own intuition and to really come into themselves, I think is so important. And obviously seeing you as a businesswoman who's driven, who's passionate, you know, and has evolved your business those are all great lessons for them.

Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

We model it all, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

We hope so at least. And we hope that they take the good stuff.

I know.

I mean, they're gonna get the bad too, but you know, whatever.

Yeah. So where do you see, I mean, you've mentioned some of the things that you're doing with the courses and with repackaging. What else do you see yourself doing in the next 3 to 5 years? Do you think you'll scale the team? Do you, will you have like physical journals? What other things do you think you want to include in your repertoire?

Yeah, I've actually taken a step back. I've actually sort of like deconstructed my team a little over this past year because it was, it was just getting a little too heavy and we had to kind of go through a like, hey, like we have too much fat. Like, what are we doing? Why are we doing— what are we focused on? So this past year has been sort of a like a little bit of a shakeup in a good way where we're sort of recalibrating. And because what I, I really wanna share is that it's, it's not like I've gone to the finish line and yay, I was successful and boom, like life is good from here on out. Like everything constantly is evolving and changing. Most importantly, my relationship to the mission and my relationship to the business. And so that I feel has continued to be a dance where I'm saying like, well, what's important to me and what excites me about what we do? And how we're doing it, and can there be more that's, that's happening, right? Or how are we making that look? So I say all that because what I'm— what's happening right now is this very intentional focus on internal product building, right? So like, what's the journey that's— that a woman's going to go on when she comes to us, and how can we make sure that we're fulfilling all that? So I'm talking merch— I mean, we already have merchandise, but it's like doing a better job of like, hey, come You're feeling anxious, come into down this path. We have this, this, this, and this for you. So I'm sort of building out the mall of these paths right now. And so there's a lot of time and effort going into that, which means that the creative, the creativity that used to come from me into the content of the business has sort of taken a step back and, and has been focused on the like all of this practical tactical stuff, right? Which is awesome. What I have found though is that my creative self is craving expression in a new evolved way. And so I've sort of been dancing with like, okay, how do I ensure that I'm maximizing what the company can do and the impact that it can have and the profits that it can make while I'm still being challenged creatively? Because if I feel, and I, I'll say this wholeheartedly, like the moment I have felt gray, you know, like sort of like blah, it's not because I'm blah about the business, it's because I don't feel creatively expressed. And so that's sort of what I've been having to shake out over this past year of all of this, which is like, okay, well, how, how do I feel creatively expressed? And so one of the very, very new things that are happening is like recognizing that there's something here in this sort of mind, body, soul connection. And everything that I've been doing is with the mind and the soul, and I've got all the things for that, and I'm continuing to like build that out. But I've been very— I've been having a lot of fun and feeling incredibly creative and excited by the physical stuff lately. Like, I'm an athlete. I, And 5 months ago I hired a personal trainer because I was bored and blah about my workouts. And it has lit a fire in me that I was like, I feel like a teenage athlete again. This is so fun. And so the interesting thing that that's done is it's given me this vision of like this mind, body, soul offering through, you know, two-thirds of which I already have and am continuing to better and build out. And I'm sort of on this personal journey of going through a physical body experience. Very humbly, I'm figuring it out as I go along, but I can see where it all meets. I can see where they all fit into each other with two goals. Number one is that I am pulled, I am excited, I feel this fire in me, right? Because the second I lose that and I do that for the sake of somebody else, there's— it's a flat, right? But equally, that it has an impact on all of these women that are coming to me, and it has an impact that's very holistic, which is, again, I've really never been about meditation for the sake of teaching you how to meditate. I've, I've always been about these tools as a way for deep self-expression and see— and, and a desire to live optimally within ourselves and, and comfortably and lovingly within our own skin. So So that's a really interesting journey that I'm on right now, and we're going to see how it impacts the business. But in the meantime, I'm incredibly excited to continue building these little pieces out and to, to do that in a way that honors the mission of me feeling fully expressed and fulfilled, that then have an impact on everything else that I have. So So it's a really interesting, you know, evolution that's for me is just a lot of fun right now. And wanting to do that within the value system of spending an enormous amount of time with my kids right now and not getting, not getting into the stinking thinking that I have to work 40, 60, 80, 100 hours and be away from my kids in order to do that. So that's been a really interesting dance.

This conversation and the things that you've shared, not just about business and getting a business up and running, whether it is the Women's Meditation Network or whether it's some other business, these are the common threads that I'm hearing whether I'm having conversations with men or women, is we want to have that time. We want to make sure we're really passionate about what we're doing and it is connected to our values, right? And it's also connected to revenue and it's also connected to all of these other things so that we can be whole people, that we want to make sure we're having this human connection. We don't want to listen to a meditation that's being put on by AI, right? We want to hear Katie's voice or we want to hear whoever's voice because there's just a relatability to it as well. So I think, you know, you are again, as you have been, I feel like throughout your businesses by listening to your intuition and following what you really love and what you're an expert at ahead of the curve in these things that we're all seeing that we need to be doing, that we need to be present, we need to be whole, we need to be with loved ones. And we also need to make sure that we are making money and having fun doing it and, and living our best selves in that sphere of our lives as well. So yeah, this has been really fun. And I just, I love seeing the evolution of like thinking about the different guests I've had over the last couple of weeks and seeing the through lines and you are a continuation of that chain. Again, I was listening to your main, your first podcast, Meditation for Women, before we jumped on. Cause I've today I've been feeling a little dysregulated and I was like, I have to get into the zone. I have to get into space.

I hope it helped.

You did. Absolutely. I just continued inspiration. So thank you, Katie. And to everybody who's listening, womensmeditationnetwork.com is the place to go. You can also find the meditations, the different shows on all of the apps. You can also get a premium version so you don't have to listen to ads or sponsors. And, you know, think about what's going to help you stay present. What's going to help you tune into your intuition. What's going to help you regulate. What that looks like, and check some of these out. So Katie will have links to, you know, everything in the show notes. I also love to end with what's something, a saying, a phrase, a verse, a poem, a family motto, just words that inspire you to be you and to live fully authentically with yourself, with your business, with your family.

The first thing that popped into my brain that I feel like I've been saying over and over again to myself lately is It's all a game. It's all a game. This is all a game. The whole point of it is to have fun playing it. That's it. I especially remember those in the very anxious, anxiety-filled moments of stress of like, it's all okay. The world isn't going to fall apart. Have fun. Go towards the direction of enjoying the game. Yeah. Yeah.

Those are great words. Thank you so much. And thank you to everybody who's listened to this episode. I hope that you've been inspired. I hope that. You've had a moment of peace to listen to everything that Katie has offered, her advice, her calm demeanor. Just, you are bringing like a really positive energy that's filling me with a lot of hope and joy right now. And I think anybody else who's listening is feeling the same. So I'll be back again with another amazing guest to share their story, their journey very soon. Thanks for listening or watching to this episode of Your Brand Amplified. Don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com.

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