The IP Revolution: Jonny Griffit on Building Authentic Connections at Scale

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The average usage was about, I think, four minutes out of fifteen. ¿Right? We limited to fifteen minutes where something like ten percent reach the end and had stopped, which is kind of crazy. But we see that the questions are really deep and the interaction goes both ways. So it's not just you learning about Omar. ¿Is Omar learning about you? ¿Right? And especially we can add goals there and anything like that. And we realize that fans are. Yes, of course. They ask who will win the next race and stuff like that. But they also ask a lot of personal questions and they're really engaged.

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I love speaking with people who've been in the field of AI much longer than many of us were talking about it. I think for a lot of people, of course, discoverability came with generative AI just a few short years ago when it became a really big thing. So, Johnny, I'm really excited to have you on the show. You have been in tech for quite a while and you started your first company at the age of nineteen and have had multiple ventures since and they've been in different fields. ¿It hasn't all been just AI and Tech, right? Forestry to AI IP infrastructure. ¿So can you share with our audience today a little bit about your journey into AI?

Yeah. Yeah.

I actually started with aI around two thousand four back. Then it was machine learning. I had a company that did machine learning for legal contracts. It was twenty years too early, but that's what kind of brought me to AI. And since then, I'm a big advocate. So in any company or venture, we try to also sprinkle AI and see what AI can do. And actually, for the past couple of years, even before ChatGPT and Dali, I've kind of nagged everyone about what will happen when AI can create content. Even I couldn't imagine how fast it will be. But then ChatGPT and Dally came and it kind of proved the point.

And when we started, Zuli, people didn't.

Even fully understand the problem that we are solving. But now everybody understands that the importance of being involved in AI and in content and involve IP with AI. ¿Right? So that's kind of like now everybody understand how big is the challenge and the opportunity.

Yeah. Well, before we get into your latest endeavor, Zuli, I'd love to hear a little bit about your thoughts on that, because I teach digital media from two master's programs at University of Southern California. And every semester, I mean, weekly, I'm updating my decks to make sure that we're incorporating the most upstate information that includes artificial intelligence, because it's changing on almost a daily basis. And there are copyright issues. There are cases going through the court system. ¿So can you talk to us a little bit about that challenge and that issue and some of the things that you see as ways to evolve or mitigate some of that creative license difficulties?

Yes. Yes. ¿I think, if you look at AI, it just gets especially at creating content, right? AI is getting better and better, cheaper and cheaper. ¿Soon you'll be able to, probably a year from now, you'll be able to create a full Marvel movie from your phone, probably for free, right? And the big challenge is that, if you are a brand or even a professional creator and you want to create something, usually you want to include a familiar, face, voice, likeness of a celebrity, a talent, an influencer, athlete. It doesn't really matter or copyrighted music. ¿And the minute you want to do it, you get stuck, right? So that's the problem. And it just gets bigger and bigger because if you look at what's happening now, everybody's creating more and more content. AI itself creates more and more content. ¿So you know when you have, I don't know, fifty million cats videos, right? ¿The one that goes to the top is the cat video of Taylor Swift cat with her voice, right? So I just IP is also a way to kind of like Pierce through the noise and elevate and differentiate. And the cool thing about AP is that in most cases it's humans and it's real humans that you need to get them involved. So I see it as the human element in AI. And I think it also creates not only differentiation but value. And it also creates something unique that.

AI can't duplicate again without permission.

So it's very unique. And what we see now is just the start. There will be so much content. We in touch with a lot of people from music from Hollywood. ¿I just had a discussion with the company that supervise all the music for.

All the Marvel movies, right?

And it's crazy. It's crazy the amount of content that.

Will be available for all of us if you look at music.

I think there's fifty thousand new songs. ¿AI songs daily submitted, right? ¿And if you look six months from.

Now, it will probably be five million a day, right?

¿And you know now we have Suno and Udo, but soon open AI and Google and X AI and Spotify themselves will all launch AI music services, right? ¿So anyone can create music now, right?

¿So how do you differentiate yourself?

¿How do you get noticed?

So I think that's going to be very interesting both from curation point of.

View and content itself that raises a good point. And that's why we're here today. Really. Because you figured out ways to solve some of these issues. Because I just think about the issues going through with some of the music making companies and how they're in lawsuits and they've had to settle with some music companies. We also think about some of the companies that don't mind if consumers remix their artist because then it gives more visibility and a little mini review if you will authenticity for the user experience and how users connect to music. But we also see that the different platforms are trying to note when things are completely created with AI, they want to have these levers that we can pull.

¿So?

So that people know that they can trust the content. But then I don't know that they're doing a really good job of making sure things that are created that our AI content truly are identified as AI content. So that makes it harder for the consumer to know what's real and what's not. And that kind of takes us to the crux of Zuli. ¿So can you explain the synthesis like why Zuli, why now, what is your mission? ¿And what did you see as the gap in the market?

So, again, from Zuli point of view.

What we're trying to solve is not the training problem. We're not part of if OpenAI or Google trained on artist, music or Warner or Universal, And all of that where we see as our main value is to enable creators to add the right or to get familiar voice, likeness, image, music at the creation of the AI, not the training. ¿So let's say you're working on a video, or you're working on an image, or you want to do an ad for your e commerce with fashion model, right? Or you want to create a radio ad with a voice of a former NFL player and music from Universal. This is where we see our advantage. ¿Basically, we created this very flexible term engine for any modality for voice, likeness, image, any kind of IP, right? ¿It can also be autograms and for any purpose, right? So it can be for whatever you want and basically you can set your own terms as an artist, as an agent, as agency, as label, and you can say, never use my voice for anything, or you can say, you know what, you can use my voice for commercial video. ¿Pay me one thousand dollars per second, or pay me ten percent, or pay me, but you need my approval, or pay me, but you need my AI approval, my agent approval, or give me an offer above a million bucks, right? And then we have agency that helps you set up those terms and also she can sit anywhere else and sell your rights while you create. We also realize that our terms besides powering the sale of a voice or a likeness, we can power any app or campaign or experiences that fuses AI and IP. And that's why we launched Photobomb and Backstage. That's what we did with the Chicago bulls and some other big things where you can take a selfie, a fan can take a selfie from the jumbotone, from the TV and put their details and get back a video with them and the celebrity pre approved, and we handle the IP and everything. So think of us as the doorway to anything that fuses AI and AP and to any company that generates content they can use us, and any brand that generates content can use us. And on the flip side, any artist, any agency, any celebrity, any model, anything that wants to sell their voice, their likeness, me and you, you can open a page and in theory sell your voice or likeness or music. And the idea is that we're going into a new world where a fashion model can be in ten thousand photoshoots a day and earn for each one only one hundred bucks, but she'll make a lot more money, ¿Right? Or where you can create TV shows.

And movies without a set, you still.

Need to pay the celebrity, ¿Right? And you still need to pay the actor, but they don't need to actually come. You can just get their approval, ¿Right? ¿And if you look at all those AI agents that we all have in our pockets, right? All those AI agents can be also celebrities.

You know we launched something with Omagorgian.

Formula One Driver in Vegas that you can actually chat with them. We did it again with partnership with eleven labs and we use OpenAI and some other tools. So again, synchrous is the bridge between all rights holders, all entertainment, all AI companies and all brands.

Amazing. This is a game changer, ¿Right? Because we think about the different restrictions or deals that like the Writers Guild or Screen Actors Guild have I'm outside of LA, so of course my mind goes to that with what can be used or what can't be used. I think about Arcana Labs and the work that they've done with some actors to put actors into AI environments, but then they had to destroy the models. So you're actually giving so much more control to people, whether celebrities, singers, athletes, whatever companies, organizations, and even smaller individuals and smaller creators to determine to have more self governance.

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El Programa Nacional de Becas Hacer de McDonald's ha beneficiado a más de 17.000 estudiantes con más de 35 millones de dólares en becas otorgados. Esta es una historia de generaciones de estudiantes que les mostraron a los que dudaban que podemos hacer más, porque se sabe que la educación de uno ilumina el camino para los que siguen. Esta es una historia de progreso. Y el siguiente capítulo lo escribes tú. Aprende más en McDonald's. Com hacer.

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Yes, I think. Yeah, I think it's not about tracking and suing and to your point earlier, you know Google and everyone launching their own watermarks and I think there will be pretty much an OK tracking for.

Things that are fully AI. Maybe not things that are blended, which is another issue.

So you'll have bands that the main singer might be human but they all band will be AI or robots.

So the way we look at it.

We are the deal makers.

The idea is that we want to help humans thrive in the AI and.

Anyone who wants to add the human element or the IP into the creation can do it. But we are artist first and we are IP first. So everything we do is legal. And the idea is that you can't ignore this market. You can't ignore the AI market. Ninety percent of all content will be generated by Osai if it's it not already is. And as an artist, an influencer, a celebrity, the same way you must have a TikTok account or Instagram account, you must join the AI revolution. People will use your voice anyway. At least what you can do is have control over it and get paid for it. ¿Right? So that's how we see it. And I think the world is moving from right now we are beating the Napster stage of AI where everybody trying to do anything, but soon we're moving and you can see already OpenAI, do some moves there, Google, YouTube like the deal with between OpenAI and Disney and.

Their cameo and of course music.

You see a lot of deals. And I think we're moving from the Napster area to the Apple Music or the Spotify area of AI where creators, especially brands, can pay for IP, get.

It into their ai, into their ai creation at scale.

¿Personalized, right? ¿Because now it's not about Snoop saying I love Doritos, right? It's Snoop saying your name and you know, let it Doritos together. ¿Right? So everything is going to be hyper personalized and at scale. ¿And now in theory, someone like Snoop.

Can talk forty languages or one hundred.

And sixty languages so you can have Cardi B talking Japanese, right? So this also opens a lot of.

Possibilities because AI removes all the borders.

I just finished teaching the last section of the MS and Digital Media Management Program Class Five hundred, Fifteen where we talk about digital content direction. And now I'm going. Oh, okay. I already know I'm going to to talk about this and talk about you in the next section. ¿But I'm going to have to tell my students to listen to this episode and check out the platform because this changes even so many of the questions we have about licensing agreements, right? Because in old terms, just you would think time territory like all of these things. ¿And then now we have these other considerations and I want to go back because I think your case study with eleven labs and Romain AI, right? His AI tool at the fan free. It's really interesting. And so can you talk a little bit more how it came together to have thousands of fans engage with a voice agent of a racing legend and what this says about the future of AI engagement. I mean, you just talked a little bit about that with being able to use Snoop Dogg to personalize messages. But I feel like your case studies have already really proven this model.

Yes, yes. ¿And it's and with SWAM in Formula One Week, it's really interesting because again, we got invited by Fanpre and our partners in ABC to participate and to use Roma's voice and beyond just the conversation, right? ¿And the average usage was about, I think, four minutes out of fifteen, right? We limited to fifteen minutes where something like ten percent reach the end and stop which is kind of crazy. But we see that the questions are really deep and the interaction goes both ways. So it's not just you learning about Omar. ¿Is Omar learning about you? Right. And especially we can add goals there and anything like that. And we realize that fans are. Yes, of course. They ask who will win the next race and stuff like that. But they also ask a lot of personal questions and they're really engaged. ¿And one of the things we realize is even though we don't hide that it's AI on every almost everything we do we have like, You know, this is AI voice, right? ¿You know you're talking to Roma AI, right? We are wired for about fifty thousand years of evolution where we talk with someone. ¿When we hear the voice of someone we love, someone we adore, someone we care about, someone we respect, say our name, right? It has an effect on our brain and it's kind of amazing. So even when we you know that it's not a personal message from Snoop or Cardi B or anything like that, or, you know, it's not really Roma. The minute you start talking, you get sucked into it and you get, you know, you enjoy yourself. ¿And what we see and what we are trying to do with our products and with everything we do is create delight, right?

And when you see people smiling, they.

Take a photo and they get back a photo, a video with them. ¿And the mascot of the Chicago bulls, right? They know it's not a real mascot, but the smile on their face you can't replace.

It's amazing.

¿And just the amount of shares and.

People and excitement, right? ¿It gives us a glimpse into the future, right?

That's on our side.

Nice. And also it's interesting, of course. People would want to ask personal questions because they want to. That relatability it makes me think because I have, like a. ¿I have a digital clone on Delphi, right? It's not a video. It's just the voice and the text. ¿And if you ask my clone personal questions, sometimes she'll get some things, right? Like, oh, you know, you're on a plane right now. As I'm typing this, my boyfriend did a little, you know, tried it out and my clone said, if I'm on a plane coming to visit you, I must be, I hope I'm in a window seat and reading a good book or listening to a podcast, which are things I would do. Yeah, but if you ask favorite food or other things, it would get it wrong because I haven't programmed her to do that. So I imagine this has to. You have to figure out where's the line of the personal information that you want to share and be programmed. But then it also helps you get those questions that people really want to know. Which means it also helps you target people in a whole new way and continue to hyper personalized which we all know is the trend going into the future.

Yes, Yes. And I think our secret source is, you know, we have specific subjects and things that you can talk with and basically because everything we do is legal. ¿The age and the talent have basically they say, oh, we want to talk about racing but not our sex life, right? Or anything like that. So first of all, you have that then there is a mechanism to check for hallucinations and only real data from real sources. Let's put it. But one of the cool things we do is we actually, it can be updated from the talent about certain things behind. ¿The reason we call it backstage is because you can get information that is not known for everyone, including, like, what the talent ate for breakfast, right? ¿Or if they're on a plane right now, right? ¿The other interesting thing is that the AI can learn about you and can ask you, let's say you talk with an artist and they ask you, what do you like most? ¿Which of my songs you like the most? ¿What did you think about my new track, my new album? So it's both ways. It's the fan can ask the artist why they named the song in a certain way or what was the process. But also the artist can ask questions to the fan. So it goes both ways and it's really interesting. So it's a full dialogue and it has memory. So the next time you talk to Romayu, it can continue if you signed in, it remembers you. And I think we're all going to have those agents in our phones. Some will be just our own general chatGPT, Gemini Agents.

But also some of them will be talent, celebrities, influencers. So it's one thing to buy basketball tickets from an agent in a website. It's a different thing to buy those tickets from leborn James. You know, telling you to you know you should buy the courtside and we might I five each other. So you know, it's all kind of a new world we're entering in. ¿And again, I think that we need to look at it responsibly from IP side, of course, and the talent, but also from repercussions, right? ¿One of the things I'm thinking on, for example, if you have an agent that purchase things for you, does this agent need access to your bank account to see how much you can really spend and be responsible for you? ¿Right? ¿You know, some deep question of morality involved in here, Right? And I think also from a talent perspective, from IP perspective, anyone that owns IP wants it to not be misused. So I think that's going to be very interesting, very yeah.

Oh, my gosh. This is kind of showing B two B two C. But you've scaled and launched both B two B and B two C marketplaces separately. So I'd love to get a little bit of which one is harder to crack. ¿Like, what are the marketplace economics for B two B versus B two C? And obviously this is a whole other evolution.

So everything we do is actually B two B or B two B two C. If you because most of the big talents we work with, they are their own business. Some of them are unicorns. ¿You know, it's like twenty people, but it's a billion dollar company, right? ¿With two hundred million fans, right? So those things it might be individuals that are bigger than most startups and most companies here in Silicon Valley, which is kind of interesting. So even when we work with the talent towards their audience, towards their fans or clients, we also for US, we are B two B first. ¿But AI allows us to create product to basically productize the fusion of AI and IP together, like in backstage or in photobomb in a way that creates a whole new experience but the all new a class of assets, right? ¿Because backstage with SOMA can be left open twenty four, seven and serve millions of fans, right? Or if we work with FIFA or Manchester United or something like that, that they have one point, two billion fans think of the potential of such an asset. ¿So it's a new class of asset that the talent controls or the agency controls that incorporate personalization, data and communication, right? But also create emotion and create lovable moments. ¿Most of our products are sponsored, right? ¿So there's a sponsor that comes that sponsors the Chicago Bull Activation or the Tampa Bay Lightning Activation, right? Or campaign. ¿And those products because us defend are in them participated engaged, they are super lovable, you save them, you know, we have a statistics with photobomb that more than fifty percent of the fans that receive a photobomb download and save the video on their phone nobody downloads anything, right? So, you know, fifty percent because it's something that you save and you watch again and again. ¿So we created this lovable moment, this emotional moment in time that I think is very valuable, especially in today's world where you just scroll until you fall asleep, right? We create moments that you're involved in, that creates a very positive emotion and I think and create a very strong connection between the talent and the fan, their brand and their client. And I think that's what we want to see more we want to see AI being used, we say p to create deeper connections and more meaningful lives for us all. You know, that's kind of like our vision at least.

¿Yeah, well, obviously that's a vision we all hope, right? But I want to ask you about the monetization side. ¿You did mention things are sponsored, but as a consumer, if I missed that opportunity, the big event, right? ¿Would I just be able to create an account and then pay a fee to still be part of an experience or to virtually meet somebody that I wanted to ask questions to what does that look like?

¿Yeah?

¿So some of our activations are limited for this specific event, but we are more and more doing things that are open twenty four, seven, and the sponsors might be replaced or change or interchange or might be a situation like in Japan, that you pay a few dollars and you get your own experience for you, right? So we want to help IP owners and IP holders to monetize their IP and to get paid for it. ¿So as long as the talent makes money, right? And they gave the right for it, and as long as the team, or if it's the association or the organization, as long as everybody give the right, things can be open forever. ¿And the cool thing about AI is that it scales so our photobomb we can do, you know, we can do more than a million photobombs a day, right? So there is actually no limit to the things you can do, to the amount of interactions. ¿And if now we have five seconds of a video, probably by this time next year or in six months or in three months, there will be thirty seconds of you playing basketball with Shaq, right? Or anything like that, or being in a part of a movie, imagine taking five seconds. ¿Imagine you go to, I don't know, I saw wicked with my girls wicked too, right? ¿So imagine you scan a QR code and now you get a few seconds of you riding on the broom behind the witch, right? So. ¿So how exciting is that, right? So, I see a lot of a lot of potential, so, yeah, it can work both ways and we're still exploring different models, but we see the sponsors or the brand as the easiest way to do things because then we are opening up to all the fans and give the best experiences, but we are launching some fans paid experiences or campaigns, so think of backstage with OMA, that's one thing. But imagine you're going to a concert for Taylor Swift, and if you bought a ticket now you have an hour of discussion or those kinds of things. So there's a lot of options there. We are open to all things.

¿Yeah, well, and this also, as a podcaster who primarily, I mean, I live and breathe in the world of podcasting with smattering of AI, right? ¿But this opens a lot of resources also for people who are monetizing with their podcasts for people who might not be the Joe Rogans of the world but still have name in the world and maybe they have content in a community through Patreon, right? But this is a very different thing where actually, if they have fans all over the world, they can have richer experiences than just paying to be a member of this of the Patreon and not necessarily be able to see everything when it's happening in real time. This opens up really opportunities for so many different kinds of creators beyond the big brand. You're talking about.

¿Yeah, And one of the things we.

Talk to a lot of dj's and hosts and podcasters in the also in the radio and the podcast industry about, first of all, creating an avatar, an agent that allows you to ask questions about all past interviews that you missed, right? ¿Imagine someone can ask you about our interview without watching it, right? ¿Just like to get you two cents, right? So this is one thing. The other very interesting thing that we see is in the ads themselves. So usually podcasters need to, or you know, radio personalities need to show ads or record their own ads, and soon you'll have, and we are working with some big radio stations, I can't name yet, but it's going to be really cool where AI can help you create ads with. ¿You can have an ad in your podcast from a former NFL player with music from Universal, right? ¿So think of the potential there, and it can be also your voice with the NFL player together, but replacing your need of reading your ad, your own ad, right? Your own sponsorship. ¿And imagine that if you're, doesn't matter if you're a Nike or a Coke or a car dealership in Iowa now, you can create different ads for different audiences for each neighborhood with the celebrity of that neighborhood instead of doing something big national, right? And you can do it in almost any language. ¿So think about your podcast being now in Japanese, right? ¿How interesting will that be? And this is very, you know, it will happen very soon, and I think very soon also. I don't know if it's good or bad. In a few months you'll start interviewing also some avatars of some people. It's going to be a very, very interesting experience. I think in general, if you look at podcasting, because at the end it's.

One or two people or more speaking.

A lot of that. If you see, you saw Notebook ML, that was the beginning of creating any text into a podcast. But it's going to be a world where you can create almost any podcast. ¿So imagine, I want you to interview Elon Musk, and I can pay both.

Of you in some way, and now I create a unique podcast of you interviewing Elon Musk on my way to work, right? ¿How interesting would that be?

¿Yeah, if you need testers, I would be happy to interview an avatar to test this out and showcase it on.

The podcast, but only in Japanese, right?

Only in Japanese, yeah. Amazing. ¿What is a piece of advice? You would give that nineteen year old self who was already brave enough to be an entrepreneur and start a business.

Move faster. That's my advice for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody should move faster and do a lot of experiments and try everything. And we say I think I'm lucky enough that I got exposed to it early. But I think everyone those days they need to know how to use AI and they need to play with it all day long because it moves. People don't understand how fast it moves.

I already see Hollywood and the entertainment.

Starting to realize our AI will affect them from job replacement or change to full industries.

Maybe you don't need a studio to.

Create a beautiful movie.

I don't know.

Not yet, but maybe.

Right.

Maybe you just need twenty people and those five hundred.

Right.

And also here in Silicon Valley, as you can see, you know, we see all the engineers. And if you're not good enough, AI can do part of your job already and just go faster and faster. But I think very soon you'll see.

AI that can do the job of.

A lot of the middle management. Run businesses, run a podcast. Maybe not do the podcast itself, but.

Run everything around it.

Right. So it's going to be a very interesting future. I think it's going to be great because a lot of people that will embrace it will have a chance to do things at scale and to do amazing things.

I also see that it's going to.

Be very challenging because change is always challenging and we never had a change that happened so fast and still happening again. We're in Day Zero.

This is just the beginning and it moves. It's not only move fast.

It moves faster every day. I think the statistics now is that.

AI gets a hundred times better every.

Year and forty times cheaper every year. So it's going to be very interesting.

Very well. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. I definitely would love to have you on again in the future when we see how Zulia has really affected and changed the landscape of IP with AI technology and helped really democratize things and help people monetize be able to save and use their image name, image likeness, how they want to and have some degree of advocacy in this as well.

Yes, yes. Control. And to make them happy, I want AI to increase the happiness of the users at the end. That's what we want to do of both sides, but. Yeah, Thank you. Thank you so much. It was great. And yeah, I'd love to come again after and show you the progress and every time we do some very cool thing with someone. Thank you.

Thank you so much. And I'll have all of the links in the show notes for people to check out Zuli ai and to find I don't know how active You are on LinkedIn, but to also find you if they have other questions.

Yes.

Feel free. Feel free.

Okay.

Fantastic. Thank you. To everybody who is watching this episode or listening to it, check out this website. This is truly revolutionary and be part of it. Now, before you're left behind with that, I'll be back again with another amazing guest. Very shortly.

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