Amy Nelson, Founder and CEO of The Riveter - Founders Live Conversations (Full Video)

I'm Nick Hughes and this is FoundersLife Conversations. Amy Nelson. Welcome to Founders Live.

Thanks so much for having me.

How are you doing today?

I'm great. It's a good Friday.

It is a good Friday. I'm so glad to finally sit down and talk with you. We've held our events in your space for a while. We've gotten to know each other quite a bit, and now we're able to sit down and talk. But what I want to do before we get to the Riveter, which your co founder and CEO. This is really exciting. You guys are here hitting the market, you're growing, and we're gonna really talk about that. But first, I wanted to go back and really get to know you a little bit. Where did you, you know, where'd you grow up and how did you get to this point? What did you study in school and what did you do before starting the Riveter?

Yeah, so I grew up in Columbus, Ohio. I'm a proud Midwesterner. And I went to college in Atlanta at Emory University. I studied international politics and worked at the Carter Center. So I worked on Jimmy Carter's NGO that was focused on peace and democracy around the world. So I worked on elections in Jamaica and Ethiopia, and it was kind of a wild ride. I then went to law school at the New York University School of Law, and then I practiced law for 10 years.

And so what attracted you to go to law school and practice law? What was that about?

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think I went to law school kind of starry eyed. When I worked at the Carter Center, I really got a sense of how powerful the law could be in people's lives. What democracy meant and the right to vote, the right to information, all of those things were issues I worked on and really cared deeply about. And I went to law school thinking I would go and work in those areas. Now, I did work on information. I worked on freedom of information, but in a really interesting way. I went to work at a law firm on Wall street, but I worked on First Amendment. The First Amendment touches us in so many different ways. But the way I worked on it was I represented Standard and Poor's through the financial crisis.

Wow.

Yes. Which was a really interesting time. It was like drinking from a fire hose for five years.

Yeah. And I mean, we could spend an hour talking about that. But what did you learn from being in the legal industry and in that experience in New York? If you could boil it down to one thing that you learned that maybe you take into your Entrepreneurial journey now.

So being a lawyer taught me how to assess risk. And that is something that I do 100 times a day, every day, as an entrepreneur. And in assessing risk, if you're comfortable with doing that, you can make decisions. I think we live in a world of more and more information every day, and a lot of times we think we need to have all of the information before we're able to make a decision. But as an entrepreneur, I have to make decisions with very little information every day. And sometimes that can be really scary. But I think a lot of being an entrepreneur is just the ability to keep making decisions. I think the worst decision is no decision.

Right. So when you say assess the risk, you're really looking at mitigating. And I would wrap in one of my main lessons from Richard Branson. I haven't met him yet, but reading his books, I really identified with when he says protect the downside. So I think that's kind of what you're saying is assessing risk and then understanding that you have to make a decision quickly with the information you have. And the way I view it is you gotta look at at least what are the downsides to this decision, what could majorly go wrong. And if you protect those or at least understand what's gonna happen, you then have the information to go forward.

Absolutely.

But what you're saying is no decision is the worst decision.

Absolutely. I mean, I think you're never going to have. I mean, I think there isn't always a right decision. Right. I think sometimes we want there to be a right decision, but there's just a set of decisions, and you make one, and it is protect the downside. I mean, oftentimes I think if this does go wrong, how will I dig out of it? There's always a way to dig out. And so that's. That's the big.

I think so much now because, you know, as, you know, founders lives growing, we're growing massively and fast and fast. And honestly, I think about this where it's like, oh, my God, like, there's things that we are making decisions on right now and we're talking about we're expanding in Africa and other countries. And I just know the decision needs to be made. The next things will present themselves and we'll assess that the time.

Yeah, I think that's really important. I think in the beginning of this, I would sit down and say, I need to build the org chart, and I need to build the org chart for when we have 100 employees. But the thing Is the org chart for when we have 100 employees isn't the right org chart for today? And so now I'm like, what is the org chart I need for the next six months? And just build it and go.

Yep. So interesting. So, okay, so you spent how many years in the legal industry?

I mean, if I tell you, I sound really old, but I spent a decade as an attorney. I was a litigator in New York, and then I practiced in Seattle for a number of years.

Okay, and so let's go to the now transition. Where did the. How did you come up with the idea? And let's start there. Like, where was that inkling of like, I'm thinking, I want to start something in this specific industry. Where did that start?

So, you know, this goes to probably the heart of what the riveter is and why it exists. You know, I was a corporate litigator and I worked in spaces built for men for a long time. More often than not, I was the only woman in the room. And that was just kind of the way it was. And I was used to it. And I succeeded in those worlds and accepted it. And I didn't really think a lot about the fact that there weren't many women in the room. There weren't many women in leadership. But when I became a mother, corporate America just changed for me. I felt like actually when I got pregnant, I felt like I was perceived differently, that assumptions were made about me and how much I wanted to work or how much I would work, what type of cases I would want to do. And it didn't sit well with me. And then I really kind of looked up and I was like, wait a second. You know, you see a starting line where there's an equal number of women and men, and you see a finish line that looks really different in America.

Right.

And that was both in law and also in politics. In addition to being a lawyer, I was a political fundraiser. So I was on Obama's National Finance committee for a number of years. And I think the reasons are a myriad. I mean, I'm not a social scientist, but, you know, there's so many reasons we see these differences. But I asked myself kind of like, how can I help make this different? And also, how do I fit in here? If we live in a world where half of women off ramp after they have kids, which is true. If we live in a world where there are more Fortune 500 CEOs in America named John than there are women so bad, you know, if we live in a world where white women make 78 cents to a man's dollar. Like, what does that mean for me? Does that mean I should stay in corporate America or do something else? And I think I was really not alone in that thinking because women are starting businesses at five times the rate of men in America, which is remarkable.

It's way cool.

So I started thinking about starting my own business, whether that was starting my own legal practice or doing something else. And because I'm super type A and I have a JD and not an mba, I started going to classes on how to write a business plan, how to do financial projections, and those classes were held at co working spaces. And I knew about coworking and it being just a really exciting part of the startup world in America and really something that we'd see a lot more of in the future. But I hadn't spent much time in the spaces, and when I walked in, I was really surprised because I thought to myself, like, if this is the future of work, it looks a lot like a frat house, essentially, which is a fun place to be. But as a woman in my mid-30s, it wasn't really a place, like, I felt like I fit in.

And so at that point, you just said, okay, the pieces are coming together. You're starting to see a vision of how you can impact the business world. And you're also seeing these problems. You're like, I keep seeing the same damn thing.

Yeah, you do. And I talked to women who were entrepreneurs in New York and LA and San Francisco and Seattle, and I was like, where do you go when you want to learn about the skills to start a business, when you want to talk to other people who've done it, when you want to figure out who can help you open the next door. And. And kind of the universal answer I got was there are a lot of online groups, but there's nothing in the tangible world where I can go to do this.

So, okay, so you said it's now time to open our own space.

Yep. And so thought of the name. It's the Riveter, which is named after Rosie, that kind of iconic woman from World War II. And the reason we did that is because I really think that's kind of like the one time in American history where women define the workforce.

Right.

So thought about starting the Riveter, and at the time I thought about building one. And I think this is really interesting. You know, we always say you can't be what you don't see, and we don't see a lot of women Building venture scale companies, Right. And I called up a friend of mine who was a startup lawyer, and I said, you know, here's my idea. Should I make. Should I form an LLC or a C corp, like the lawyer and me trying to figure out what to do next. And a couple days later, he called me up and asked if he could take me for a beer because he wanted to talk about my business idea. And like, being, I mean, so typical. I was like, oh, crap, he thinks it's a terrible idea. What have I done?

Oh, no.

So we go sit down for a drink and he says to me, he's like, why are you building one of these? And I was like, you think it's a bad idea? And he's like, no. He's like, why wouldn't you build 100? And it just hadn't occurred to me. And so I went home and started researching the founders of venture scale businesses, you know, and when you dig into that, you're looking mostly at men.

Yeah.

But I realized, I was like, you don't have to have an MBA to do this. You don't have to have 15 years of experience in business. Anybody can start a business. Anybody can be an entrepreneur, and anybody can build a billion dollar business.

That's amazing. So let's go into actually the co working space. The market, it's crowded. And I know that, you know, clearly wework and others are really spending a lot of money. They've raised a lot of money. To me, it seems like a little bubbly ish. But at the same time, the great thing I love about the riveters, you've really established your brand and your niche and like, here's what we're about. And I feel like what you've done, well is so, so firmly pushed away the traditional like. And look, wework does a great job of designing their spaces. What you're saying is it does not identify with a huge market of your customers.

Right.

So what you've decided is we're gonna brand it this way. We're gonna establish these spaces comfortable for these people. So let's go into that a little bit of how you've established that niche in a market that's getting pretty, pretty busy.

Yeah. And I will, I will say a couple of things. I think, you know, we do think coworking's growth has been so explosive. It's kind of like, wow, you know, like, is this real? But I do think that work is changing in America and that we will move more and more away from these headquartered corporations that exist in one city and everybody comes to work all day, every day. I think that we can all agree the future will look different. Technology has changed the world and there's more technology that doesn't exist yet that will change it 100 times over, you know, in the next 10 years. Only two and a half percent of office space in America is co working right now. And the prediction is that about 30% of office space in America will be co working within the next decade. So I think there's a lot of room for a lot of players. I mean, I think sometimes we go back, like if you look, there's Uber and Lyft and Reach now and there's room for all of them and they're all doing well. So I think there is a lot of room in this market. But I think one thing that we did when we talk about the Riveter, when we looked at what we were building and why we were building it, if we said we're thinking of women first, which we do, the Riveter is built by women for everyone. But we do think of women in the design. Most women who start businesses are building solo practices or building businesses with small teams. And women, when you ask them if they want to, when they come in and that's the type of work they're doing, they don't want to go into an office, they want to be in an open space. So we thought, I mean, if this is co working, why don't we actually try building collaborative coworking space? Because most of the leaders in the industry are actually about 90% office space. So you walk into a Regis, you walk into a WeWork, you're walking into a hallway and then offices. So what does it look like if you take a different tack on it?

Yeah,

that's how we decided to build kind of the open spaces.

Right, right. And what I also like is it is for everyone. And you know, kind of one of my first interactions with you and with the Riveter was like, oh, it's for women only, you know, and I think you've done a good job of clearing that up and encouraging anyone, which, you know, actually, you know, we hold our event in LA at your location and you know, our city leaders happen to be male and they actually really love the place, you know, so it's like you've really connected the dots and I think establishing that brand, that unique brand, whatever cities you're in, which. So what is. You started in Seattle?

We did.

And let's describe the growth and where you're Going, you know, how many locations and where is this going?

Yeah. So we launched in Seattle in May of 2017 with our first location, which was 11,000 square feet. Our second location opened in September of 2017 in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle. And then we headed down to Los Angeles. We have opened two spaces in LA this summer, so.

Great.

One in West LA and one in Marina del Rey. And then we will open our fifth location in Bellevue on September 1st, and we'll have over 75,000 square feet of space when we open Bellevue.

So great. Congratulations.

Thank you. It's amazing. We're actually growing faster than we worked in in their first two years, which is, like, exciting and kind of daunting.

Kind of daunting, I can understand. And so walk me through the vision. Where is this going? I mean, you did mention 100 cities. Not sure if that's still your vision, but where do you see this in five, ten years?

Yeah, I mean, I think the Riveter will be synonymous with women and work in America, just like it was in the 1940s. We plan to be in dozens of cities across the country. We're kind of just steadily heading east since we've gone down the coast. And in each city, which is really important to us, we build more than one location. We know that people move from one side of the city to the other. We know that what's convenient to you on Monday might not be on Tuesday, and we want you to have that flexibility. So like in Seattle and Bellevue, where throughout the market we've built three locations, we'll do that everywhere that we go. And all of our memberships include all of the locations in your city.

And so is the expansion more. If you go to a new city, you eventually more quickly go to two locations in that city before you're gonna, like, go to all over the country in one location in all those cities.

I mean, if I was a good entrepreneur, I'd be like, yes, this is all completely thought out at this point, but we're still really early. We're 16 months into this, so we're still working out how we will expand. I think in a way, we'll do laddered expansions where we open in one city, open a second one in a new city, circle back and do the second one in the first city. There's a bunch of different ways to do it, so we'll see.

Let's go into female founders, near and dear to your heart. It's myself as well. And let's get to the root of the problem and you experience raising, you raised money as now a venture scale business as a female founder and CEO, describe how challenging that was and why. And I think I'll preface it by saying I think that there's a lot of our industry that just doesn't even think about it.

I think that's right.

That we're not aware. Okay. So I think that's the problem. And please help us more bring it to the surface and help us understand the challenges.

Yeah, I mean, I think I'll preface this with saying raising money for any entrepreneur is really hard and it should be because you are asking a firm whose job it is to make money for their investors to take a bet on you. And we know that 90% of companies fail. So this is, I mean, this is, this is a challenge, right? Yes, I think, you know, we know that last year women raised female. Female only founding teams raised under 3% of venture capital dollars.

Yeah.

And that's just like dismal statistic. That said, I think that there is, I think the ground is shifting under our feet. I think that we are starting to have the conversation about why women aren't raising more funds. And I think, you know, I'll say, like, had I known when I started this that women only got two and a half of venture capital, two and a half percent of venture capital dollars, would I have done it? I don't know. Like, that is scary. Like, the odds are really low. The odds are low to begin with. And then when you get to that, you're like, oh, can I do it? So I'm glad I didn't know it. But I would say to anybody, like, it's completely doable. If you have a good business idea, a team that's willing to execute, and you can tell your story and show your story. I think it was, I think too 90% of venture capital investors are men. And I think something that's really important for all of us is to all acknowledge that we all have pattern recognition and implicit bias. Every single one of us, regardless of our gender, our race. It doesn't make us bad people that we have it, but it is something that exists. If you're a man, you are more likely, the science says, to kind of identify with ideas shared with you by other men. And we invest in things we're excited about. We invest in things that make sense to us. And so really, one thing that I learned in raising our series seed, which we closed in February, was led by Madrona Venture Group, which is the largest firm in the Pacific Northwest. And we raised $4.75 million. The biggest lesson I learned was to really think about who you're telling your story to. When I pitched the Riveter and we raised our series seed, I really focused on the opportunity. And the opportunity, on the one hand, it's to change the world for women, and on the other hand, it's to build a company that returns a really solid profit. And that's the story that I talked about. It's a good story. It's a story that we're living. It is our story. So I really focused on that piece of it. So I think it's really important for anybody who's pitching to think about what part of your story, of your business will resonate with the people that you're talking to, who you want to give you money.

That's such a great. That's such a great lesson. And what sort of. You probably experienced no's and the rejection.

Did I ever.

And how did you handle that? And what sort of thoughts on if any entrepreneurs are watching? How do you handle the. I mean, you're not going to get all the yes. No one's going to tell. You're not going to get all yeses. Right. So we're.

It's really funny because whenever anybody asks me this question, like, my breath catches because, you know, I will go out and raise money again. And you're like, yeah, it's tough, right? I mean, it is. I told myself before I went out to raise the money that I would hear no 99 times. And on the hundredth time, I would hear yes. And I reminded myself of that every day and through every no. Because I think I pitched 48 times, which was a lot less than 100.

Yeah.

But it was 48 painful no's. You know, And I think. I think that. I mean, I think the most important thing. This might sound ridiculous, but, like, you've got to be ready physically. You've got to be ready mentally. You've got to get sleep, you've got to be exercising. You have to drink water and be on your game.

Yeah.

And you have to tell yourself that a no has nothing to do with who you are in your heart and soul. It has to do with the business. And it doesn't mean you have a bad business. It means that business isn't a fit to who you're pitching. And the other thing that I did is every single time I walked out of a pitch, I sat down for five minutes and I took notes because every question I got, I tried to figure out A way to weave into my pitch. Because you want to answer the questions you might get before you get them.

Yep.

You want to like, you want to erase any doubts. You want to address the hurdles of your business without anybody asking you. Because they might not ask you, they might be thinking it.

Right.

And so you want to let them know I've got an answer even though you might not ask me this. So I would sit down and write it down and then work it in. I changed my deck so many times. So build your deck in something you can work in, like PowerPoint.

Yeah, no, that's a great point. That the deck is evolving and based on the feedback you get. Adjust, edit. How about this? How did you know the responses to follow and accept as like, I'm going to. Ooh, that's a good question. A good thought. I'm gonna change my pitch and deck versus I don't care about what they just said.

Yeah. I mean a lot of it is you knowing your business and knowing what's important to your business of like, oh, that actually, you know, in co working you get a question like, what happens if the market turns? You better answer that question before somebody asks you. Right. I also anything about the numbers. Any way you can learn the numbers inside and out like the back of your hand. You have to know how your revenue model works, what the levers are, what changes it. And you need to know that inside and out. And I will say that science and interviews show that women get more questions about the numbers than men do.

Interesting.

I think there are more doubts about women knowing the numbers. So I really think you have to know the numbers inside and out. Absolutely, 100%. And I think too, I got some interesting questions. I had a baby last August. So I had a baby on August 28th of 2017. So she's almost one. And so I was out pitching with like a three month old and I got a lot of questions about that. And you know, on the one hand it's like, this is ridiculous. But on the other hand, investors need to know that their founders are fully capable and committed and have the time. And so I really figured out a way to turn what they saw as a potential weakness into a strength. Yeah, like I had one investor ask, he was like, you know, you've got three kids, one's a newborn. Are you physically up for building a national company? And so I was like, I don't understand the question. Because when anybody ever asked me something that I'm like, that's a ridiculous question. I ask them to Repeat it.

Can you please repeat the idiots?

But in a kind way. I was like, I don't really understand the question. So he repeated it, and I said, you know, look, I built this company while I was pregnant, which physically means I can do anything. Yeah, Right. So I think you have to try to turn whatever someone might see as a weakness into a strength. And I do think that being a mother is like, a complete strength for me as an entrepreneur.

Yeah. So how can us men make female entrepreneurs? And whether we're an investor or a. Also a founder and an executive in this industry, how can we help you feel more comfortable and feel respected?

Well, I think one thing I cannot tell you how many times I heard I should ask my wife about this or ask my daughter about it. My business stands alone as a very good investment. And as an investor, I think anyone should evaluate it on that.

It's a business.

It's a business. I don't think I've ever heard a woman investor say, I should go ask my husband or my son about that. So I think it's one that's an important thing, is just look at the idea, not through a gender lens. Right. And then whatever preconceived notions you might have about a woman who's also a mother, I think, let him go. I am an adult who makes decisions about my ability to work a certain number of hours and parent. And I've made the decision to do this, and I am all in. And I think that any entrepreneur, no one's gonna put their blood sweat into tears into something that they're gonna do halfway. Right. So, like, don't question that piece of it.

Yeah. You know, when you encounter. I mean, you just mentioned you kind of smartly restate or ask them to restate the question. But when you encounter some of these things that are not very respectful, you know, how do you handle it? Do you call it out or like, you know. Cause we need. This industry has some issues that it's hopefully getting cleansed, but it's deep.

I think that I say, I think every industry does. Right. Like I mentioned that statistic where There are more CEOs of Fortune 500 companies named John like, literally named John than there are women. So I think it runs really across America. But I think it's just really important to try. I think one thing that men can do is if you're ever in a meeting and you hear a woman talked over or you hear a sexist question, don't go up to her after the meeting and be like, I Saw that happen and that was crappy. Say something in the meeting.

Yeah.

Say, hey, I think that, you know, Amy was trying to talk. Or, you know, I think that was Amy's idea. Or, you know, like, speak up in the meeting.

Yeah.

Right. To one another. It's really not scary, I promise. But I think, you know what I try to do whenever I encounter something that I see as being said through a gender lens, I try to point it out, but in a way not of like, you're a bad person, because people aren't bad people for saying something like that. Right. So just kind of pointing it out in a way of saying, like, I'm going to tell you how that's not a weakness, it's a strength I think is the best example. Or, you know, say, I think we can frame that a different way. But I mean, it takes work, right? It takes a lot of work. You have to try to get in front of more female founders as a male investor, seek them out.

Yep. So, yeah, and you probably get asked for a lot of advice now and you know, from male and female founders in terms of just, you know, start going from zero to one in this kind. You know, a lot of our membership and people watching are just starting. And the zero to one is zero is like the idea and launch. And one is you have a established, growing company. What is probably the, let's call it two pieces of advice that you would give an early stage founder as they're getting off the ground.

Yes. So advice I'd give an early stage founder is to talk to every single person you know about what you're doing because you never know who will open a door for you or help you. Like, when I was starting the Riveter, I was starting to think about raising. We raised a pre seed round before we opened, just off a PowerPoint when it was an idea. And I really, you know, I had some ideas of where I'd go to raise money and who I'd ask, but it was really surprising to me who invested in that round. Like, I was talking to a friend of mine. Her son and my daughter were in preschool together and I knew she was a lawyer and she was staying at home at the time. And I was just kind of telling her what I was doing and she's like, well, you need to talk to my husband. And I was like, what do you mean? And she's like, he's a serial entrepreneur. I had no idea. And he was my first investor.

Wow.

And he connected me to five other people who invested in My company. And I think that that's really important. So talk to everybody and ask them for help. And not just monetary help. People can help you in so many different ways. When we were opening the very first Riveter, we were way behind, but we needed to open because we needed to pay rent. I needed to make money.

Like, it's time to go.

Yeah. Like, we gotta go. And so I was like, I've got it. We'll have barn raising parties to build all the furniture, and I'll buy pizza and beer and just invite everybody I know. And so over the course of two weekends, I think I had over 100 people in here building furniture.

That's so cool.

Ye amazing. The community will come together to help you. If there's one thing I know too, and also the other piece of advice is talk to other founders. It is an amazing, you know, this, it's an amazing group of people. Like here in Seattle, where we live, it's an incredible community and people will go out of their way to help you. We've helped each other.

Yeah, right.

Like, we've done stuff for each other on different occasions.

Exactly. And the way I view it is, you know, of course this is kind of organic to Founders Live, but I say to any founders, if you can connect with all the other peers that are founders in this stage, right now, you're like building an army that will support you.

Yes.

And not only is they're gonna share information and share their experience, but the further and closer you connect with them, they're now gonna support you and cheer for you and help you and introduce you to other people completely. So I feel like that is the biggest mistake, that most early stage founders that are like stealth and closed off and they're losing all that.

And the other part I would say, and this is relevant to Founders Live, is say yes to all the things that scare you. You asked me to pitch in a Founders Live before the Riveter opened. And it's really interesting because even though I was a lawyer, I always spoke at podiums and whenever I had to speak without a podium and do public speaking, my leg would shake, really, for years. And I was really afraid to participate in FoundersLive. But I was like, well, I'm growing this business. I have investors. I owe it to everybody to give it everything I have. And so I agreed to participating in Founders Live. And I was so nervous.

You were?

I was so nervous, I couldn't tell. And it was an amazing experience. And I met a lot of people who became members of The Riveter we met and you've done founders live at the Riveter some and you just have to keep saying yes to everything that scares you and the scary things will keep happening for years.

That is so awesome. Yeah, I get so many of these stories now, the success stories of people pitching. These are the things that I wake like I'll wake up and read it and like damn, that is just amazing. And so yeah, so you, your experience pitching, you hadn't opened yet and just describe a little bit of like the experience and then what kind of, you know, from that, you know, because I've heard from other presenters like it just like was kind of like this turbo boost of confidence and yeah. You know, so you're, you know, you were nervous but then you pitched and what happened after that?

So I practiced a lot before the pitch because 99 seconds is a short amount of time and you have to really. And it's actually, I think it's absolutely incredible because it's where I learned my elevator pitch which. How many times have I said my elevator pitch in the past year and a half?

Probably a thousand thousands.

I mean just so many times. And so it was really, I pitched, it was really fun. And I met people that night who signed up for offices at the Riveter. One of our first tenants here in Capitol Hill came from that night. They were in the audience that night.

So cool.

And I won the competition, which is great. And I received as my prize a year membership to the wtia, which is the Washington Technology Industry Alliance. And through that I met so many people and had so many opportunities. So that was fantastic as well. Another woman who had encouraged me to pitch in FoundersLive who'd pitched the month before, Laura Malcolm from Give in Kind. I now work with her a lot. So she is an incredible product manager in addition to being a founder and she really product managed the build out of the Riveters new app which her husband designed.

So cool.

Who's her co founder at giving Kind. So really, I mean just like an integral experience to building this company.

That's so awesome.

Yeah. You probably didn't even know 75% of that.

No. There's so many stories. Yeah, this is great. Well, I know that we don't have too much time, so wanted to thank you again.

Thank you.

And last question. Close your eyes and go out 10 years. What does the Riveter look like? What's the world, you know, grip and what are we looking at here?

Yeah, in 10 years there will be Riveters all across the country, from Seattle to Florida and California to Maine. We will have millions of people on our app connecting with each other, connecting resources to each other, connecting to investors and opening doors. And my company, my team, which is 95% women, will be on the COVID of Time having built a billion dollar business, because you've never seen that. And it's important to me that we do that.

I cannot wait for that. And we'll sit back down. Of course we're going to be close, but in 10 years, we'll sit back down and we will look at that cover of Time.

Thanks.

All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Enjoy your day.

Thank you.