Andre Haykal Jr's Millionaire Mindset & Passion for Empowering Entrepreneurs

Let me actually. Let me adjust my input volume real quick, and then we can. Then we can really go input. Okay.

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You good to go, man?

I'm ready. Perfect.

Andre Heikal Jr. Thank you, my man, for being here again today. Second time in the past 12, 13 months. Yeah, man, thank you for being here.

Hey, Jordan, thank you so much for having me on. It's an absolute pleasure to spend the time with you and with your audience today.

Yeah, dude, I just. Every time we talk, or at least, you know, the last time we did a podcast, and now today, I'm always just so impressed by you, like, unbelievable what you're doing. And you're 23 years old, right? You are 23. I'm correct.

Yep, 23.

23. I think you just became a millionaire officially. I found that out, like, yesterday. Is that true?

Yeah, man. Yeah.

That's awesome, man. You're doing it. Client Ascension, Knowledge X. Like, I just. I'm astonished. I'm. I love to see everything you're doing, and I'm just happy to have you here, man. So I think a lot of people, they would probably ask you about Client Ascension and all that sort of stuff, and I'm like, you know, I'm curious about that, but, you know, also, I'm in it, right? So I'm not, like, abundantly. Abundantly curious about Client Essential. Maybe I'd be curious a little bit more to learn how it came about, but, like, really what I want to do, I kind of want to know who you are outside of Client Ascension and Knowledge X and your businesses. Oh, List Kit. List Kit even too, Definitely.

So let's.

Let's talk about that. Like, yeah, like, who are you?

So I would say I'm a natural born entrepreneur, funny enough, because everything we're talking about already is entrepreneurship. And so I grew up in a family of eight. I was the second oldest, and so I just was always around a bunch of kids, part of a really big family. My mom is one of seven, and all of her siblings have multiple kids. And so I grew up with core values, being family, faith, and really entrepreneurship, because my dad was an immigrant from Lebanon, and he struggled throughout the school system when he got to the US in his teenage years and became an entrepreneur for that reason. And my mom's dad, my grandpa, was an entrepreneur after his teaching career. And so I was just surrounded by a big family that was super passionate about entrepreneurship and faith as well. And so that was my entire upbringing, man, is like, I knew entrepreneurship better than anything else. And so I Feel like a lot of people grow up in a household where, you know, they're encouraged to go through the typical college career, get a 9 to 5, maybe become a doctor or a lawyer if they're highly ambitious. And that's really it where for me it was the opposite, which I'm super grateful for.

Yeah. And your grandfather too, right? He was an entrepreneur or is an entrepreneur?

Yeah, yeah. My grandfather got started in or with football first, where he attributes a lot of his leadership and team building skills to had a really successful football career. Ultimately decided to stay home and get married and have a big family. And so he was raising like seven kids on a teacher salary. So not a lot of money for that big of a family. And just kind of found him, found his way into entrepreneurship and just had a ton of success and still does. He's kind of like, you will like an idea guy that he's just very visionary and people love him. He's a great people person and he's. Yeah, he's a good dude. Very successful entrepreneurship career.

Yeah. Well, I definitely want to dig into your journey a little bit more. I'd be curious to hear though, like outside of client ascension and Knowledge X, like what do you, what do you do?

Yeah. So I guess outside of business, because List Kit's also another one of the businesses that I work on, but I have very similar values to the my family and how I was raised, I guess is faith, family and business. It's like those three things. And so outside of business, I have a really big family. Like I have over 40 first cousins who I'm very close with all of them. I have seven siblings, most of which are younger. And so I'm kind of like getting the chance to see them grow up and be a part of their youth, which is really cool. And then faith as well, being a part of different faith groups, like that's all important to me. And then I have different leisure activities that I enjoy like golfing and playing sports and just going out to, to meet with friends. And I would say another core value for me is culture. It's. It's something that I've started to talk more about all throughout. Like social media is. My dad comes from a small country in the Middle east called Lebanon. And I feel like growing up I was actually like embarrassed to be Lebanese because nobody else that I knew was Lebanese and no one really understood what it was. But growing up, I actually got the chance to visit Lebanon a couple years ago and meet all my family members that are over there and Just got really like, I fell in love with the culture and with the people and for everything that they stand for. And so I spent a lot of time like I'm learning Lebanese, the language now and finding myself in, in Lebanese, like American Lebanese groups down here in Florida and even back home. And so those are just some of the, the different parts of my life. Just to give you some insight there.

Yeah, similar story with me too. Like I was raised Jewish and I was always embarrassed about that. It was like a, you know, it's kind of what I kept secret in public school. I didn't want anyone to know. I was kind of embarrassed because I didn't really know many other people that were Jewish. Maybe there were like, you know, there were, I could name off a few kids, like four or five kids that I knew that were also Jewish in the school of maybe 600. You know, I'm sure there were more, but that's really all I knew. So I, I resonate with you there and then having visited Israel a few years ago and just kind of falling in love with the culture and now just being proud to be Jewish. Like it's not something I'm embarrassed about, something I'll talk about openly. So it's cool to hear similar journey on your end with being Lebanese and, and all that. Curious about like what's your balance? You know, you talk about some of the things that you do outside of your business is like what, how much time per week do you spend like away from the businesses or is it like really difficult to kind of detach?

It is very difficult to detach if I'm being honest. And I just feel like I'm so dedicated. I guess in the beginning it was a little bit easier because it was just me and there weren't real big implications if I stepped away because I was the only one that would be affected. But now with client ascension and really like across all three of my businesses, I have more than 40 people that I work with, whether as business partners or team members or employees. And so I just feel obligated to show up in a way that gives these guys a really good experience and lifestyle, if that makes sense. And so it's just bigger obligation. And for me, you know, you talk about like the hustle culture and on the flip side, like the four hour work week and how much you should work, how much you should be doing other things. Like I just really enjoy working, if that makes sense. And I know it's not the same for, for a lot of people, like entrepreneurs really you know, a lot of them want to outsource and not be involved in the business as much. But for me, like, that's where I think I've created the businesses and structured the teams. Like, I work with a lot of my friends, I work with a lot of my family members. And so for me, like, it doesn't always feel like work and just the impact I'm able to create through business is motivation for me to continue showing up really consistently. But now I feel like just through experience and self awareness and being asked this question time and time again, when I am outside of business and spending time with family, I really make it, you know, a thing to focus on being present. Because I feel like before I would step away and spend time with family, but I'd be distracted because I'd be thinking about business. And so I think it might be less time that I'm spending outside of the business now, but more quality time. And that's really what's super important. And then I get super motivated stepping outside of the business because I'll, you know, talk to family and talk to friends and catch up. And it motivates me to go back and work. To create more opportunities for those kinds of people in my life is really how I look at it.

Yeah, well, you're having fun, man. You know, it's hard.

Exactly, exactly.

It's. It's hard to step away when you're having so much fun. And the way I describe it, when it feels like a video game that you're playing. Yeah. I think about Ray Kroc. I just heard a story of him on a podcast called, I'm sure you know it. It's called Founders. Really good podcast. Yeah, I only just. I only just recently picked up that podcast. I actually haven't been listening to the podcast for well over a year, year and a half. I've just been like an audiobook guy recently as far as my audio experiences go. But I picked this up and I'm just in love with it. I listened to this episode about Ray Kroc. It was this guy, the host was summarizing his. His autobiography. And yeah, long story, short work was religion for Ray Kroc. Like, that was priority number one, you know, above everything else, even family. Now he and the host of the show talks about this. You know, Ray Kroc, he's a little bit crazy. Crazy. But I think to some degree, like, you know, I think we have some of that in us. Like, we're just so devoted and love what we do. Like, I Hate to even call it work, but work is kind of, you.

Know, it's, it's more of our religion is what it's like our mission.

Yeah, yeah, it's. And it's so much of like part of our identity. And work is noble, you know, to work hard, you know. Yeah. Like people talk about, and I'm the systems guy, I talk about building a business that works without you because I think it's just the best way to build a business. But that doesn't mean, like, you know, I don't plan to live my life, Andre. Like lounging on a beach, like, that's not fun.

It gets old after a while.

Yeah. And I think more and more, Andre, I think people are kind of waking up to that. I think, I think it's almost like cliche, like known knowledge now. Whereas I think, and I think it's only come into view in the past 10 years. Whereas, like in the past, you know, that that's what people were striving for, to just chill out on a beach. I think people are still trying to do that. But like, I think, I feel like it's less. You have people like us who just love what they do.

I think it is less. And I've, I heard the way Ed Mylett talks about this is something that really resonates with me. And he talks about comparing basically happiness to fulfillment. And most people think they want to be happy, but what they really find out is that they want to be fulfilled. And the number one way to be fulfilled is to use your gifts, your God given talent, however you want to refer to it, in service of others. And business is a great vehicle to be able to do that. Like with client ascension and Knowledge X and with what you do, you're using your gifts of knowing how to automate and process and systemize things within a business and to help others spend less time in the business and more time on the business so they can help more people and be more fulfilled. And like you said, that's our version of a video game. That's our version of fun and noble work. And so I think it's a great perspective to have.

Yeah. So what do. Going back to you and in your journey, what are some, what do you think are some like unique things in your childhood, Andre? I know we kind of went like high level, you know, why you're an entrepreneur. But like, what do you think are some things that made you who you are today?

Yeah, great question. I think number one was when I had a passion for sneakers and maybe like fashion culture, if you will. That got me into just learning more about brands like Nike and Adidas and just really looking up to these bigger brands and companies and the products that they created. And, like, as a kid, I was just interested in having the sneakers. And it wasn't until I found out that the sneakers, if you were able to get them, had a resale value, and it was arbitrage. That's when I started to discover reselling and the flip life and that sort of stuff. And that was like my first version of a video game. I didn't played too many video games growing up. I was more interested in, you know, going to the mall with my friends and waiting in a long line or camping out to get this limited edition sneaker that I could then go to ebay and sell it for, you know, 100 bucks profit, which at 15 years old, 16 years old, was a really big deal. And I continued that, and I started to kind of ramp it up as time went on. And through those experiences, I learned a lot about supply and demand, which is, you know, the ultimate business lesson that you can learn early on. It's like, what do people want? What are they willing to pay for it? How do you get it? And that actually got me onto Twitter in the early days. I know now, like, a lot of people on Twitter refer to our corner of Twitter as, like, money Twitter. Back in the day, we used to refer to it as sneaker Twitter, which is funny because I didn't even really remember that until I got back on Twitter recently. And so moments like that definitely shaped who I am today. And I would say school as well. I went to a Catholic school in upstate New York, and so it was very limited. I was in class with, I think my graduating class was like, 80 people. And so the most people I would be in, like, a classroom with was 20. And so it was a very, like, intimate setting where I knew everyone and it was just easy for me to network and. And make friends. And I think that gave me a lot of confidence and introduced me to a lot of different people. Whereas if I were in a bigger school, like, when I got to college, it was a lot harder because there were just so many people, and it was overwhelming. And so I've always just kind of been attracted to or found myself in groups where values are really similar. You know, it's kind of how we met each other. So just finding other people that were interested in what I was interested in is kind of how I ended up as the person I am today. And it all goes back to family as well. I was always surrounded by family. Family was always at the center of my life. It was always something that I had to fall back on and just provided me with a lot of support through, you know, my, my childhood.

I have to wonder, some of the other kids, you say you were going to the mall with your friends and waiting in these lines for. For sneakers?

Yeah.

I have to think are some. Do you know if any of those other friends are entrepreneurs at this stage right now?

Not many of them, to be honest. Surprising a few of them. It's funny, I used to go to the. The mall with them and half of them would get the shoe and actually just want to keep them instead of paying the resale price. I was always more interested in the resale and continuing to build that up. A lot of my friends, especially earlier on, were just more interested in getting the sneaker so they didn't have to pay $100 more than they could have got them if they waited in line. But I feel like the ones that were there and kind of arbitrage with me eventually ended up getting an entrepreneurship. Like my little brother actually got started in that same business around the same age that I was when I got started. And a lot of it was just because he saw what I was doing. And same thing he got in that business, started reselling sneakers and clothing and was able to scale it up to this big reselling empire that he's now been able to run. And he didn't go to college because he was well off through what he was reselling. And so I definitely think there are people along the journey that saw what I was doing and ended up doing the same thing. Even like my cousin Dan, who's now my business partner, we would always be a part of those sneaker releases, waiting up all night trying to get the limited edition sneakers. And now he does all of the sales for all of my businesses. And so there's definitely people in that journey.

Yeah. Speaking of your. Of your business partners whom are all around the same age as you, I'm pretty sure. So curious about that working relationship because you've got you. One, you've got Dan. Two, you've got Christian. Three, you've got Daniel. Number four, how does that all work for business partners? Like, what is that relationship like? And for. I hate two part questions, but let's start with this first. How did you guys all meet?

Great question. Yep. And so I think my biggest breakthrough in business was when I realized how business is actually supposed to operate and the way I learned it is there's three functions of a business. You have to get traffic, which is essentially just saying marketing. And you then have to convert that traffic into revenue, which is really just saying sales. And then you have to deliver either on the promise or the product that you converted them for, which is just fulfillment. So there's marketing, there's sales, and there's fulfillment. And from my experience, the best businesses or the businesses that grow consistently are the ones that can do all three of those things at the same time.

So.

And continually get better and better and better. And I did, you know, kind of like an analysis of myself. And first one I checked off the list that I absolutely hated and also knew that I was not good at was sales. And so I. Damn.

Hold on, hold on. I'm going to challenge you here. Okay, I'm going to challenge you because I hated sales too. Like, I checked that off the list, didn't want to do it, wasn't interested, thought I was bad at it. But then like, fast forward a couple years, I have this, like, breakthrough, specifically in the past, I would say in the past year, I just gotten really freaking good at sales. And I love it now. Love it, love it, love it. So I'm curious about you, like, what has your experience been in sales that has told you, no, I don't want to do it, I don't like it.

I guess there's two things there. So I, like, you had a lot of experience in sales. That was actually like, my first real job was in sales. And. And I did like the second to worst kind of sales. I think the worst kind of sales is door knocking. It's like very, very painful. I did cold calling, which I think is the second worst or second toughest. And so it was just not fun. Like, I would pick up the phone and I would almost think to myself, like, I really hope this person doesn't answer because I just don't want to talk to people. That was really it. I did end up being really, really good at sales within that role. Like the cold calling role specifically. I was in that role for, I think a year. And I was one of like the top reps at the company. So I don't think it was a lack of skill. It was more so a lack of enjoyment.

Good, good. Because I honestly, I think that you've got, and I've talked about this many times before, but you've got to be good at sales because sales is life. Life is sales. Life can be viewed through the lens of sales. Everyone's selling themselves. They're selling their ideas. They're selling their product or service, like we're always selling. So you've got to be good at sales. You're not going to be good at the dinner table if you're not good at sales. You can't shy away from that journey of getting good at sales. So it's good to hear that you actually, you know, you did it right and you got good at it. But then, you know, that's okay. Like, you can decide after that. Hey, I don't. I don't like it, but I. That's great. That's all I wanted to clear up.

Yeah. And I think a lot of that had to do with just the form of sales, like, cold calling. I wasn't a huge fan. Cause you'd pick up the phone and people were pissed off. They weren't always happy to hear your voice. And you also weren't. I wasn't super passionate about what I was selling at the time because it wasn't my product. And so that kind of shifted my focus to, I really want to build a product that I didn't have to necessarily sell to people. They'd kind of see the value inherently. And I also realized at the time, because Dan, my cousin, who now does sales for us, was at this company with me doing the cold calling. And that was also his first experience with sales. And not only was he really good at it, but he really enjoyed it. And so I figured, hey, you know, we could kind of join forces. You could do the sales, and I could build a really, really good product for you to sell. And that was, you know, really the. The, I guess, evolution of it. And at that same time, I was already partnered with Christian on a podcast, and he had a really good knack for marketing and. And coffee and all that sort of stuff. And so it just made sense, us three coming together. What.

What were you doing. What was the podcast you were doing with Christian? Was that around, like, 2019ish?

Exactly. I think we started in 2018. It was called Real Talk University.

Yeah, I was just gonna say that. Yep. Okay. I didn't know you were doing that with him.

Yeah, yeah, he was my co host. I mean, basically. So funny story with Christian. We were both in entrepreneurship before college. We were interested and we met in, like, a Facebook group for incoming freshmen at the college we were both going to. Because I posted, like, some. Something about, like, oh, like, I'm trying to connect with more people who are in entrepreneurship. And, like, Christian was the Only one that responded. And so we ended up meeting, like, the first week of school, and we're, like, trying to do something entrepreneurial, and we couldn't find out what to do. And so we're like, let's just do a podcast and talk to people in entrepreneurship and kind of see where it goes. And so we had no expectation or plans for what the podcast was going to be, but we ended up doing over 200 episodes interviews, and through that experience, learned so much about marketing and social media and content creation and, you know, what. What it takes to be a successful entrepreneur.

Yeah, that's so cool. So you've got Dan and you're. You're kind of working on something, forming a little bit of a partnership with him in some sort. Like, what was the first capacity you guys worked together in?

This is Daniel.

You're saying Dan, your cousin, actually.

Oh, okay. Dan. So, yeah, so Dan kind of missed out on the podcast opportunity because he went to school in Miami for a year. And so while he was away, Christian and I were doing the podcast. And then he ended up moving back right around Covid. And he was also entrepreneurial minded because the sales experience that we both had together and because he was also part of my family. And as I said earlier, my family was a bunch of entrepreneurs, and so he was interested in what we were doing. And Christian and I were both really good at the. Or the marketing, the content creation, the product, the ideation. And I remember Dan being really good at sales, and he had taken some classes or courses throughout his first year at Miami University that helped them get more into sales. And so he basically came back and said, you know, I want to be a part of what you guys are working on, and I can just do the sales part. And Christian and I both were really into it because we said we didn't want to do sales. Like, we want to do what we're doing, but we need sales.

Nice.

Yeah, so that was really. Danny ended up moving back home and just plugged him right into the business to do the sales part.

Nice. And then what about Daniel? When does he come into the fold? How does he come into the fold?

Yeah, so Daniel is much newer of a connection. So Christian, Dan, and myself have been working together on an agency for the past three or four years now. And it wasn't until maybe two years into that journey we met Daniel. So basically when we first started our agency, we had, I think it was like $6,000 in the bank account, and we put it all into Facebook ads and lost it Pretty much immediately, with no return, no sales, nothing. We thought we were gonna, you know, put 6,000 in the Facebook ads and make at least double or triple, but it didn't happen. And so we were left with like no money. But we still had ambitions to make it work. And so we came across this concept or marketing channel called Cold Email Allegiant, because someone in my network told me about this guy on Twitter that they're following called Cold Email Wizard. So we bought the course, it was very cheap at the time compared to what it is, you know, three years later, and went through the course, implemented everything, was able to get results or leads for our business very, very cheaply, which ended up getting us clients. We started to get traction and basically Daniel put out an email to everyone in the course and said, hey, like, I will give you either a hundred dollar gift card, I think it was, or a 15 minute call with me if you send me like a positive review of the course. And so I sent him the positive review and then said, hey, let's just connect for a call because I'm really interested to, you know, ask you some more detailed questions and see how we might be able to work together. So we had that call and on that call we basically came up with an idea to collaborate on a follow up product to the cold email course he was selling. And that follow up product was really just a swipe file of like the most successful emails that people wrote as a result of going through his course. So that people going through the course could see as like, basically think of it like a swipe file for copywriting of a bunch of different successful ads. And the best way to learn how to write an ad is to see, you know, versions of ads that actually worked in the past. So we collaborated on that. I basically gave them all the content and said, just promote it under your brand. Because he had a really established audience and following at the time and right away instantly hit traction. It did over a hundred thousand dollars in sales in the first 30 days. It was his most successful info product launch since the Cold Email course. And that was really just starting the partnership with Daniel.

Why do you think it went so well?

It was a very complimentary product and I just knew because I was a user of his product or I bought his product, implemented it and got results, but I knew I would have been able to get results quicker or maybe just even better results overall if I had this resource that I was creating internally for my agency for training for a role that we were hiring for. And so it just made so much sense to me at the time. I had no understanding of like info product marketing or what that all looked like. I just knew he had an audience and had already over a million dollars in sales for this one course. So if he just sent, you know, some information about this new course to the people that bought the old course, it make a lot of sense for them to check it out. And that's really all that happened. It really took traction on Twitter and as soon as people went in they started to like rave about how helpful it was and social proof started to spring up all on Twitter and it was, it was, it just happened so fast. But at the end of the day it was a really good product.

Yeah, it's awesome. Correct me if I'm wrong. Daniel is not a partner in Knowledge X. Or is he?

He's not a partner at the agency. He actually had his own agency before. It wasn't really for him. He. So this is where Daniel comes into the picture. He is like a marketing guru, like a marketing legend.

Totally.

I think at the end of his story he'll be, you know, in, in a list of names with the top marketers because he just really knows marketing. That's how he was able to grow his personal brand with like a wizard as his profile picture. That's still there. It's crazy what you can do with marketing.

Yeah. How old is he by the way?

Involvement. What's that?

How old is he by the way?

Daniel is turning 25 or 26 in May. I can't remember exactly. So. So yeah, he was just really good at marketing and he had like the virality that Christian, Dan and I just didn't have. We're able to get clients through cold email, but we haven't cracked the code on building our personal brands and really just getting an audience to follow us that you know closely. And so he came in the picture not to help with the agency because we were already getting enough clients for our agency. We kind of really scale it as fast as. But to partner on an info product that instead of just being a course, it'd be a coaching program because he basically did the cold email course. And then we collabed on our course and from there there wasn't another idea of like what else could we do at this point? And so instead of doing another course, it's like, let's just do a high ticket coaching program because everyone else in the space that we're looking at like Cole Gordon and Dan Henry and Taylor Welch and these guys were Selling high tickets. So it's like, let's just do what they're doing. And that's really where Client Ascension was born, which is pretty cool.

Yeah. You know, I hear you describe it as actually, and I've heard this more than a few times in the past couple months, but hearing Client Ascension be described as a coaching program, which when I, you know, FaceTimed you that one day, you know, I. I said, you know, I said, sign me up. Send the panda doc. I thought it was, you know, it's just like, it's a mastermind. I didn't realize it was a coaching program, and it very much is. I had no idea that I was gonna have all these coaches in my corner, experts in every different area of entrepreneurship, and I was. And they'd be following up with me about how this is going, how that's going, and these goals that we're setting together. I had no idea about that.

The cool thing is it didn't start that way at all. This is very new how it's kind of sprung into this, and I'm happy to talk a little bit about that because it's a cool story, actually.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was kind of wondering, like, yeah, did it start as a coaching program or a mastermind? But it sounds like you're kind of saying it didn't start as a coaching program.

Yeah. So in the beginning, we were like, let's do, like, some coaching program or mastermind, really, for lead gen agencies, because that's the. The agency that myself, Dan, and Christian had experience building. And so we did that. We created, like, kind of a cohort model where we'd, you know, get 10 people in and then start. And so it wasn't evergreen. It was a start and stop. And it was just myself, Dan, Christian, and Daniel as the coaches and people would come into the program. They'd get on one call every single week with us four, and that was it. And the results were not great, to be honest. Really? Yeah. Just because it was our first experience. I mean, we had actually some of the. Our most successful case studies from that cohort, But I think the overall percentage was a lot lower than we had hoped. And I knew why. It was because there wasn't enough coaching. But I couldn't crack the code on, yeah, I understand we need more coaching, but how. How can we add more coaching while also adding more students? Like, it just wasn't making sense to me. And I see all these other programs doing it, and I just wasn't understanding. And so in December of 2021, I think it was almost two years ago. We're out in Miami. We were meeting up with Daniel, he lived there at the time, and a few other of the guys from Twitter that live in Miami at an event. And this was like top of mind, like, how can we scale this program? Because it was at the end of the cohort at that time. How can we scale the program without spending way more time coaching? Because we just didn't have the capacity with our agency and everything else we had going on. And we met this guy at the bar that was running a coaching program. That's the way he described it. And that's when it started to clip for us for financial advisors, helping them to get clients for their firms. And we asked him just how much was he doing per month? And he said, $300,000. And that was like, really shocking. And so we said, you know, really curious. One thing we're struggling with is we can't figure out how to get more students while also adding more coaching hours. It's just not scalable. And he basically said all they do is they hire expert coaches to coach their students in place of the founders. And that's when it really started to click. And so then I went back and said, okay, well, I know every agency or business needs marketing, sales and fulfillment. And so I'm going to go out to my network that we've done a really good job building over the years and find the best guy I know at marketing, the best guy I know at sales, and the best guy I know at fulfillment and pay them to be the marketing, the sales, and the fulfillment coach in client ascension. And so we started that right in January, 2022 or February, even last year, and started with three coaches outside of the founders. And now fast forward a year a little bit a year and change later. I think we have 12 coaches outside of the founders now. And that's the model. It's just like the university model. It's really just like an online college, if you will.

Yeah, that's actually useful. It's awesome. I highly recommend it for people listening. Client ascension is awesome. I've enjoyed being part of the group. The network effects of it. There's good knowledge in there, like, just so much good stuff. Really cool to hear how it came about. Are you still connected with this guy?

Appreciate you saying that, man. And no, it's funny. We were talking about it at dinner last night, and we're definitely going to reach back out and just give him an update on where we're at. Because I think he'll find it to be really cool.

So you have his contact information. He's not, it's not just like a lost bar conversation.

Yeah, yeah. So we had a follow up call where he kind of walked us through the process in more depth because we were just out at the bar and I mean, I remember the conversation, but I didn't. It didn't click until he had that follow up call.

Were you faded, Andre?

No, actually it was my birthday, so maybe a little bit. It.

That's funny. Well, like your 21st birthday or something.

Yeah, exactly.

It was. Oh my God. So you're definitely drunk. That's so funny.

I mean, that was a great night.

I'm just imagining, I'm imagining like this, you know, being in your shoes and like this bar, this type of bar conversation, you know, like obviously we've all, you know, we've all had those types of conversations. You have good conversations at the bar sometimes. But I think, yeah, I think a lot of people just think of the bar as like degenerate stuff. But like you literally had a life changing conversation at the bar that has had a pretty positive return on investment. I mean, it's not all bad.

It's not all bad.

Wow. And you know, you go to the cigar bar a lot. I hear you say that. I hear you say that. It's like, I think that's you that says it. It's like one of the best way places to meet people, right?

100%. Yeah. So we got into the cigar culture just by being in Tampa because Tampa's like, or at least it was previously known as like the cigar capital of the world because they have a lot of the original factories here. But we found this really nice cigar lounge that one of our other friends that does marketing or like a marketing agency brought us to after dinner one night and we just fell in love with the place. It was just like a really cool aesthetic and vibe and the type of people that you'll find at the bar at a cigar lounge typically are older dudes that have really meaningful life experience A lot of times in business and being new to Tampa. This was when we just moved down to Tampa. We were, you know, really dire to meet new people and learn more about the area. And we just got into the cigar bar, made friends with all the staff and that really became our hub. And now a year later, we still are members there. We got a membership maybe half a year into going to the place, consistent, consistently. And now like we hosted our first in person event there for client ascension last year in October, and now we host our podcast right out of the lounge as well. So lots of benefits there.

That's so cool, man. Yeah, I've seen the podcast set up there. That's really nice. And it's just so, so such a big advantage when you're doing a podcast in person. It's a game changer.

Yeah, yeah. We had a guest on yesterday and I asked if he had any experience doing in person podcasts and he said no, but he had done a lot of podcasts and just after you could tell, like, that was a really impactful podcast experience for him. I just think having someone in person sitting next to you is just a much more intimate experience. And when you're online, yeah, it's great, but you're missing a lot of that connection, if you will.

Yeah, 100%. As someone who's done an online podcast for five years and, you know, basically like 95% remote interviews, you know, I've had the, the occasional in person interview and those are always pretty cool, you know, and I've managed to grow, you know, an audience, obviously doing a remote podcast. But speaking very candidly, like for example, Lewis Howes, I'm sure you know him with the school of greatness as soon as he went remote with his podcast. I don't think all of his podcasts are remote now, but like during, you know, when, when covet happened and all that. I hate even mentioning that stupid word. Anyway. So stupid. You know, the whole, you know, when, when he went remote with his interviews, I, I stopped listening. I stopped.

You could tell. You could tell.

Yeah, I like the. I like the in person podcast, so. And maybe everyone needs to stop listening to this podcast and go listen to Stick talk with Andre and company.

Yeah, I appreciate it, man. You know, one of the interviews actually that you did that I could really tell, like the power of being in person. I think you even did it in front of a live audience was with James Altucher, if I remember correctly.

Yep, yep. So different. Yeah, very different. That, that was a whole. Yeah, that was a whole other experience with a live audience. That's not. I don't, I don't know if that's something that I would repeat. Having a live audience is a lot of pressure. Different ball game, man. Yeah, I like the in person, the, the, the live studio audiences a little much. Have you done any sort of like live, like people listening in type podcast?

We've had like maybe two or three at a stick talk recording. And even then I'm, you Know, always conscious of it. So I can't imagine having a live audience of a couple dozen or 100 or whatever.

Yeah, it's different. It's definitely a more vulnerable experience. Especially, you know, and I don't really, you know, we don't really do heavy editing here. Never have. But knowing that you can't really, you know, you can't edit out the mess up, you know, people are, they're going to hear it, you know, so if you go blank, that sucks, you know, so you've got this fear of just like it's a whole thing. Anyway. My, this whole conversation has been leading to at least the last 20 minutes or 15 minutes of it. It's been leading to what is this polygamous relationship of yours? Like, what's the four. The four way founder relationship like? I'm so abundantly curious how that even works.

Hey man, I'll tell you, it's not always pretty. There's such an emphasis on conversation because I feel like one thing I will say that is really, really helpful and I don't think it would work if we had it any other way is the fact that we're all right here in Tampa. And so when we need to get together to talk about things, we can. It's very easily accessible, but it just really forces communication. But it also in a really nice way allows each of us to focus on what we really enjoy and what we're really good at. And so again, like, I don't necessarily love sales or building a sales team, but Dan does. And so because he does, I never have to show up to a sales call. I never have to hire a salesperson. That side of the business is completely taken care of by someone that I trust. And same thing with running ads and making ad creatives. Daniel's the mastermind there and making funnels and split testing different pages and VSLs and all that stuff. Like, I've done it, I can do it, but I'm not the best at it and I'm not going to spend all day doing it. What I do love is building product and coming up with ways to add more value to students in the community. And so that's what I get to focus on. And that's why I feel like it doesn't feel like work always is because I get to focus on what I actually enjoy doing in business. And I think that's a, you know, a blessing or if you have a smaller team because there's more people that you kind of have to consult with or run your ideas. By. But we just. We work really well together. And I think it's all because we all have a lot of respect for one another, and we've all kind of proven ourselves in our own realms of what our focuses are. And so we all have a lot of trust and respect. And we know at the end of the day, we're all learning. This is all very new for us as we continue to scale. And when there are problems and things that aren't going the way we want them to, we can have that conversation, and we don't ever shy away from it, which I think is so important. If you're going to work with a partner in business, you have to be able to have those tough conversations. You have to be able to call one another out. You have to stay accountable. It just doesn't work otherwise.

Yeah. You know, you can't be afraid to rock the boat. I've definitely, definitely been there and, you know, in a place with partners before, where, you know, out of, like, neediness, out of wanting to stay in someone's good graces, you know, you're afraid to rock the boat, Afraid to bring up.

We had that as well. Our first agency ever, Dan, Christian, and I, we had another business partner who was a lot older, and that business ultimately failed. Not because the business failed, but because our partnership failed. And there was a disagreement between us three and our other partner. And so we split up. And that was a very, very painful experience that I think we learned a lot from. And the biggest learning is, for us, was communication. Like, we didn't feel comfortable communicating with this other partner, maybe because he was older or maybe because he didn't speak the same language we did. And what I mean by that is just, like, cultural, culturally, like, we're younger, we like to have fun and kind of mess around, and we just didn't feel like we could be ourselves in front of the other partner.

Damn.

And that was a red flag that we just didn't feel the effect of until it all kind of blew up in our face.

Yeah, that makes sense, man. This has been a really good conversation. Thank you.

I've had a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'd say, like, this is. Yeah, I'm feeling. Yeah, I definitely feel like we hit flow in our conversation today. So it's been a good time, man. Like, thank you for being here again.

Hey, thank you for having me and asking these questions and being interested in stories so far.

Yeah. And there's so much. I'm genuinely interested. Like, there's so much more that we could talk about, you know, we could probably, you know, I, I recognize, I recognize, Andre, that I'm not Joe Rogan. So nobody's going to listen to a three hour conversation of us. But, you know, I feel like we could definitely, we could definitely keep going for another two hours and ten minutes for sure. Like, there's a lot, a lot to talk about, man. I'm excited about our future collaborations and, and just getting to know each other more and just, just cool. Yeah. Just.

Yeah. I always walk away with a smile after our conversations and I really do. It's always so, so touching.

He's so sweet.

I appreciate it, man. You put on a good show and always been a fan of what you do. So it's cool to be able to come on here and talk about what I do.

Thank you, man. Many more times. We will have many more such conversations on and offline. Anyhow. Andre, Andre. Andre. Heikal Jr. Heiko. Hi, Cal. Hi. Cal is what I thought it was last year, but it's Heikal H A Y K A L junior Andre H A Y K A L junior On Twitter. Highly recommend you give him a follow there, which, by the way, that's a whole nother conversation. Twitter though we did talk about that last year, but there's a lot to update on. I'm just seeing Twitter in a whole new light than I saw it in the last conversation that we had and you were a third of the size you are now on Twitter. And there's just a lot more to talk about there that I'm abundantly curious about to hear from you, but we will save that for another day. What else? Client ascension.com you guys have that domain? Yeah. That's yours?

Yep.

Okay, cool. Anything else?

Yeah, that's really it, man. I love connecting with people on Twitter and it's an easy platform that's have an open discussion. And yeah, the Client Ascension resonates with you as well. We have the website there where you can learn more, talk to me or Jordan and we'd be happy to, you know, tell you more about what's going on there. And definitely, if you're listening to this, take Twitter seriously. If you are kind of like a content creator or doing marketing for your personal brand or business, there is a lot of, a lot happening on Twitter that most people in our space just don't see. It's just one of those platforms that doesn't get talked about enough.

Yeah, Client Ascension. My last comment on that, if you're an agency owner listening to this agency owner in particular, and you're not in client ascension, then you're just making it harder on yourself to win. I highly recommend you check it out. Clientessension.com or. Yeah, just reach out to Andre or I and we'll be happy to provide you more information on that. But anyway, man, thank you for being here. You're the man. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Jordan. Really appreciate you, bro.