This Founder Nearly Went Broke From a Successful AI Startup

All right.

I'm here with Camille, the founder of Copycopter. Camille, how you doing today?

Hey, I'm good. Pleasure to be here.

Yeah, thanks for, for joining. For people that don't know you, do you want to give a brief introduction of yourself?

Yeah, sure. So I'm Cameo, founder of Copycopter. As you said, my story is probably maybe interesting. So I left a VC backed startup around two years ago and I was so tired with all the VC money and people and stuff that I decided to just build the next project by myself. So I decided to learn to code, which I did, and I decided to move to Bali to extend my Runway. So I went to Bali, met other indie hackers. Because you can call me indie hacker. Um, I guess. And yeah, I started building one project which, like, the first project was quite bad. Then I started building Copycopter and then the rest is history, basically. Yeah.

That's awesome. I already know most of your story because you shared with me. It's a great one, man. I think, you know, I think if I could redo everything, I might move to Bali. That sounds like a pretty awesome life.

Yeah, man. I think every founder I know, especially beginning founder, should do this. It's the same with San Francisco. Like if, if you're building a startup, you should move either to Bali or San Francisco. It's so much more easy to just meet people that do the same stuff. That's. Yeah, it's unbelievable value.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. I lived in San Francisco for five years in my 20s. Yeah. Which was awesome. But tell me about Copycopter, what it do? I know what it does, but give me the short version of it.

So copycopter is a social media video generator. So I was using AI to generate images and videos and then generate the voiceover and graphics on top of the video and then stitch it all together and create a video that you can share on social media. It actually started as something completely different, but then I pivoted to videos. So, yeah, that was the basic idea. Yeah. To just generate TikToks. Yeah, yeah.

So like YouTube shorts, TikTok videos, and it automatically makes those.

Yeah. So the idea was that you can just type any idea you have. So like, I don't know, I want to make a video about dogs in Bali, for example, and then it would come up with the scripts and the voiceover and then generate images and you can pick the style both of like the images and the voiceover and the style of the text and it would. Yeah. Combine all of that and create the media for you.

Nice.

And then I also. Sorry, no, keep going.

Sorry, I was gonna ask.

So I built also the editor which was. That was the fancy part of the whole tool. I think that's why it was more valuable than all the other tools because like I've built this editor and which allowed you to manipulate all the like media in a video. That's why people liked it so much. So yeah, that were the two components, the video generation and the video editing.

Yeah, got it. How do you build something like that? I'm not technical. Is it just like on top of OpenAI or like.

Yes. So two main components, like the video generation is on top of OpenAI but also different LLM models, but also stable diffusion, then flux and many various models for basically AI generations. And also obviously it's not that simple to just call API. There are multiple API calls for OpenAI and other services to generate the whole script. We've used 11 labs as well to for example create the voiceover. So it's like you start with an idea but then there is a lot of happening in the background to create all the necessary components for the whole video. So that is built on top of third party APIs and then the video editor is built on top of Remotion, which is open source, very cool toolkit for rendering videos in React. So like I'm not sure if you. If the audience is technical, but like if anyone wants to start playing with rendering videos, they should start with free motion because the whole project wouldn't be possible if not Remotion, basically.

That is awesome. How long did it take you to build?

That's a tricky question because obviously like the first version was built in like two or three weeks, like very fast. But then I was constantly iterating on it and it took. I was working on it for four months every day, Literally every single day. So I was shipping feature by feature. So yeah, the question is when it was ready? I don't know, it's probably never ready, but I guess especially nowadays you can build an app like this quite quickly.

Yeah, nice. Tell me about how did you get your first customers?

So initially I started posting because like initially obviously I didn't even believe because it was my first product, I didn't believe that someone would pay for it. And I started posting videos made by Copycopter on Twitter and then for some reason it went viral in China which was super weird because that was. The whole app wasn't even in China. But then people from China started Signing up. So I think somewhere around that time I decided to actually, my friend convinced me to launch the product on product fund, which, which I did and then people immediately started paying for it. So I think the, the. The China Virality plus product hunt, that was my ca. Someone from this. These two groups were my first. Was my first customer. Yeah.

That's awesome. I like how you used copycopter to find the first customers. You made videos, posted them.

People saw it. Yeah, yeah, that's. That was smart. Although my biggest disadvantage as a founder building this project product was actually lack of market founder fit because I was building a product for creating TikToks, but I actually never used TikTok before, so that was, that was not that smart. And I was trying to convince myself to start using TikTok and maybe actually build like make videos for TikTok and Instagram, but I was more into technology and instead of just like making content on, on social media.

Yeah. So yeah, it's also like a marketing tool. You know, it's making video. Like I make. I don't make TikTok videos, but I make like YouTube shorts and stuff like that. Copycutter is awesome, man. Like it's.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So like, I, I think especially now the buyer is using copycopter to market copycopter and social media. So yeah, he's using it the right way. So he's using it as a marketing tool for his own tool. Yeah. So that actually makes sense.

Well, let's move into that. What made you want to sell Copy Hopper?

So good question. As I mentioned, when I left my VC bat company, they left me with a very small pile of money and I just decided to like, bet everything on me building my own product within the next 12, 18 months. So I went to Bali and started building copycopter. But I think my biggest mistake was not focusing on marketing. So instead of actually selling what I. What I was building, I was constantly building more and more. And then after a few months, I realized I'm basically out of money. So I was close to being broke and I decided to sell the whole thing because I couldn't afford to even like, I don't know, invest the money into ads. So yeah, I kind of had to do it. And obviously, like, when you don't have money, the whole pressure, like you have a lot of pressure because, like, you kind of have to figure out how to make it work. So I had to get rid of all that pressure of having the product that is not making money. So yeah. Hence the decision to sell it. Nice.

I remember seeing you on Twitter during that story, and I think I gave you a little shout out, and I saw you trying to list it on Acquire. I remember that morning. I was like, oh, shoot, sorry, man. Like, you can just list it.

Yeah, yeah, thank you for that. Like, you helped me with the listing a lot.

So.

Yeah, I don't know if you're. If you're aware of that, but, like, I actually initially wanted to sell that on Twitter, and I was like, yeah, in my mind. Yeah, like, in my mind, I was too small for acquire.com, which turned out to not be true. But I thought, I'm gonna find the best buyer on Twitter, which was. I think it was naive to think that someone from Twitter will be my best buyer, basically because as soon as I posted my listing on acquire.com, the quality of the conversations with people just skyrocketed. Because, like, on Twitter, everyone is just, like, dropping you a message, hey, hey, how much for Copycopter? And I. I'm like, yeah, but actually, yeah, actually, are you actually interested in buying it? Right. But then on acquire.com it's a completely different conversation, and everyone is serious about it. And, yeah, I'm super happy that I actually did that because. Yeah, yeah, that obviously helped.

Tell me about the whole experience. Like, you list on Acquire. What was your expectations? How was the experience? Walk me through that.

So I think I've made every single mistake I could make during the whole journey, because first of all, I. I started talking with one guy on Twitter, and then we moved to acquire.com and I did not even, like, first of all, I got a lot of messages on Acquire, but I immediately signed the letter of intent with this guy. But because, like, I was like, okay, I have an offer. I have to close it as soon as possible. But then the reality is that the first offer isn't the best offer. And immediately, the day after I started getting other offers on, like, for example, people were writing to me on Twitter that they saw me on acquire.com and if I'm open to talks. And yeah, like, I said yes to one guy, but then other guys said, like, basically gave proposed me more money. And I was like, okay, what do I do now? So I was scared that someone's going to be mad at me or something, so I said yes. And then we signed another loi, I think. And then the first guy was like, hey, I would give you more money. So that was my mistake of being too fast, I think. And not having a cool head and not actually listening to all the offers because I thought that having one offer is just a win. And, yeah, I have to close it as fast as possible. So that was, I think, my first mistake.

Can I give you some advice for right there, what I would have done?

Yeah. Yeah.

So what you want to do is you want to tell buyers that you're accepting offers, but don't accept one. You say, hey, I'm hoping to get all formal offers in by this date. And then the first buyer submits it, and he knows the timeline. Like, Camilla's going to review these in the next week and accept one. And then the second buyer is then notified that you just received noi. So now he submits one and someone else submits one. And then if you do all this right, then you have, like, five offers and you can look at them all at the same time and go back to the first buyer and say, hey, my fourth offer is this price. I like your terms better. Can you match them? You know, and then you can negotiate better price and terms without try, you know, because you're like juggling a bunch of bars at one time, and it can get out of hand on a choir.

Yeah. Like now when you. When you say like that, it makes a lot of sense. Like, the. The thing I did was simply chaotic, and I. Yeah, basically, it can be very reactive.

Very reactive.

Yeah. Yeah. So that. That's what happens. So, yeah, I think the. So that was my first phase of, like, selling it on acquire.com then what happened was that I finally found a buyer that offered me more money than I even expected, which at the end turned out not to be that much money because I then found other buyers willing to pay the same price. But I found a buyer, and he said, okay, I'm going to pay you premium, but you have to wait for two or three weeks because I have to close another deal. So we. He basically asked me to sign the letter of intent, but then he said, okay, nothing's going to happen for the next three weeks. And I talked to many of my friends, and everyone said it's a red flag, because if someone is. If someone wants to move forward, they will move forward. And everyone said that that's not going to happen. But I was like, okay, I'm just going to risk it. And obviously after, like, three weeks later, he said, yeah, it's not gonna happen. And I was like, I wasn't even surprised. Right?

Probably. He probably didn't have the money, is my guess. Maybe he was trying to you know, two, three weeks to put the cash together and then he'd be able to.

Yeah, maybe, maybe so. Yeah. But I, I kind of didn't know how to, how to play that. But yeah, it was months after I started, after I decided to sell it. So I was kind of tired with the whole process. Right. But then I found, I came back to the market, I found another buyer, actually, I found more than one willing to pay similar price, actually. So it wasn't that bad. But then I had to close the whole thing. So I was, I was kind of tired. But then, yeah, then was the, the third phase in which my final buyer found me. So this guy found me on acquire.com and actually wrote me a message on every single channel he could because he was so convinced that he wants to buy Copycopter. And I really liked the fact that he was so convinced and he had a plan in his head what he wants to do next. So I think from the moment he sent me the first message to the moment in which we closed the deal, it was like 24 hours or something like that. And he paid me the money, all cash, immediately after we signed a contract, which was an unbelievable feeling, honestly, because I literally, I was broke at this moment. And then you get a five figure transfer on your bank account. And I was like, wow, this is amazing.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah. So this happened and then the guy immediately, like we immediately started transferring all the, like all the accounts, all the, like transferred the ownership basically. And the guy had so many ideas. Like he, he had everything that I, that I was missing basically because, like, he even had the same ideas that I wanted to implement to Copycopter. But I just, I was so tired that I couldn't see how can I do it. But then he just came there, like he looked at the project, he was like, let's do this and that and this can be done this way. And then it worked. And, and I was like, wow, this is exactly what this project needed. So, yeah, at the end of the day, I'm super happy that Copycopter was bought by like, he bought, like he specifically bought Copycopter, because I know it's in good hands. And yeah, I know he's happy with Copycopter as well because like, he immediately knew what to do with it. So that's an awesome story. Yeah.

Nice. That's great. I'm glad it all worked out. I remember seeing a tweet of yours a few months ago and he said something like, I got all these notifications from CoffeeCopter, the guy is growing it or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's true. Yeah. So, like, I think he's, he already made more money than he paid for CoffeeCopter, so. Yeah, that's, that's crazy. I, I also, after I sold copycopter, I was working on it as well, shipping some features as well. So, yeah, it's. It all worked out. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I, I think the lesson there is, you know, you're gonna build more startups, more products, you're gonna launch them, you're gonna learn, you're gonna, you know, the guy who bought it probably is you, but, you know, five years ago or 10 years ago or something like that, I'm sure he has, you know, some startups he's launched and, you know, he didn't market them or do. He didn't do something Right. Or something like that. But that's like how you learn. You know what I mean? Like you, you gotta go through that. I have some startups I've launched that were terrible in the past, but, you know, you like, learn from that and it always builds up to, you know, whatever you're doing next or a startup in the future.

Yeah. So one thing that, like many people said to me before I actually sold copycopter is that there is this feeling once you sell your product, you have this emptiness inside of you because, like, you lost something that like you were basically working on every single day. But I did not have it at all. I was so happy to see, like I was just sitting on the side observing what he's doing with my product and I was like, oh, that's how you do it. So, like, for the next time. Yeah, now I understand what I have to do. Right. So amazing feeling, honestly. So if, if there's anyone actually considering if I. If you should sell it or not, just, just do it. Just do it to, to learn how it is. That's. I think that's my.

That's a great story. Great story. Tell me if you had, you know, three piece of advice you could give yourself. Maybe you're looking to sell a business in the past or someone else looking to. What would you, what would the three pieces be?

Advice. I think the most important one, prepare for the acquisition before you even start thinking about acquisition. And I'm saying that because I saw so many of my friends just living in a total chaos. But if you have. Yeah. So if you have at least one spreadsheet. One spreadsheet. With all your costs and like revenue streams, et cetera. And like you have, you have everything in order. Basically. That makes it so much easier because, like, even if, like when I started talking to guys on acquire.com, like, one guy asked me if I can send him the profit loss statement and he sent me some kind of a template if I like asked me if I can fill it in. And I was like, yeah, obviously I have it, but I had it like much more, like done in much more detail and better looking style. So I sent that to him and he was like, oh, okay, now I know that you know what you're doing. So it also builds some kind of a trust. So have like that, that was my, that is my main point, I think have everything in order. Do not live in chaos and track everything.