Father Figures and Authority (Coaching Session)

Joe, I either want to fight myself or I just want to roll over and stay safe. I either want to fight against myself or I don't want to listen.

Welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. Today we're going to share a coaching session between Joe and a woman in our community who is experiencing tension around authority figures. The conversation starts off with workplace challenges and very quickly ties into her relationship with her father, ultimately touching on how she can give and receive love. We've removed her name and other identifying information for the sake of confidentiality. While listening to this conversation, pay some attention to Joe's state of mind and how he holds the VIEW principles. These are the kinds of conversations that Joe has with participants and that participants learn to have with each other in the Art of Accomplishment course. Let's get started.

What do you want to talk about today?

I notice I freeze around people who remind me of my father, and especially in work situations. Like, this is the— this is what's happening repeatedly.

Yeah. How do you see them as like your father?

They don't see me.

Aha. How do you know they don't see you?

Because it's very clear they don't know how I tick.

What's the evidence?

Well, I'm doing something, I'm motivated, and then they start to speak to what they think I'm motivated by. They'll be like, "Good job! Oh, here, this is exactly what we need out of a team member who wants to step into leadership," and just like whatever bullshit they're gonna tell me. I'm like, "Ugh, this isn't why I'm doing this. I'm doing it because I love it." I'm doing it because I love it. Not doing it for money.

What if they did see you and you can't recognize it? I'm not saying that that's true by any stretch, but if it were true, what would it mean?

Well, it would mean I'm judging the shit out of them. I think that's true. I think it would mean— let's just get— I do think that's true. It would mean—

What makes you judge your father? What made you judge your father?

I thought he was wrapped up in himself so much that he couldn't see anyone else.

Yeah. How is that not true about you? That's a scary question for me to ask, but how is that not true about you?

That you're wrapped up in yourself so much that I can't see others, or so much that you care whether people see you? Oh, interesting. I want to be seen, it seems like, again, by certain people.

Yeah.

It's because I'm still wanting that one kind of attention I've decided I didn't get. Right.

So how is that not being wrapped up in yourself?

I think it is.

It's wrapped up in my wanting Yeah, what makes you judge people for what you're doing?

Well, when they do it, when they do it, obviously, Joe, it is way worse than when I do it. I'm a better person than that.

Yeah, so, okay, so you're sitting in the meeting and the person's like, oh, this is exactly what I want from a leader.

Yeah.

What are you not seeing about them in that moment?

I feel like they're affirming what they want.

Right. So that's the judgment, similar to you being focused on what you want to be seen in this particular way. But what, what are you not seeing about them? How are you not allowing them in? How are you not seeing them as a full person?

If they're telling me that that's what they want, I notice there's a part of me that closes to them first. Yeah, I'm like, oh, you're not— you're not coming to go meet me, so I'm like tired of bringing myself to try to meet you, right?

So one thing I just noticed, and I want to come back to it, which is you didn't answer the question, like, what is it that you're not seeing about them? You're telling me what it is that's hard to see about them. But I'm going to detour for just a second because my curiosity totally— my wonder just went in this other direction.

Okay.

How is your relationship with your wants affecting your judgment about what they want?

I believe that asking for exactly for what I want isn't very effective. That's which I think is part of what's getting in the way. Yeah, right, right. I'm not just explicitly asking for what I want, right, right, right.

And it sounds like that's not— they're not doing that either in that moment.

That's right, that's true.

So if them not asking directly for what they want makes you feel unseen, what does it say about you not asking directly for what you want? If anything?

The logic is that they're unseen. I don't feel it. I don't want to feel it. I don't want to feel that. Yeah.

How does it feel to just say it? Just be like, I am not seeing anybody clearly. Like, right now, look at me. Do you think you're seeing me clearly? How clearly do you think you're seeing me? 100%?

Ah, definitely not 100%. Nothing is 100%. Okay. So like, but hi, I don't know.

At what point do I get to feel upset at you for not feeling seen? Like, what's the percentage?

You know, if I see you anywhere in the 50% or below, or like in that range, that's not good enough.

Okay, that's when I get to be upset at you.

Yes, definitely. Okay.

And whose criteria do we get to use? Like, how do we get the data to know what percentage it's at?

Well—

Right? Like, so as an example, how true is it that you don't want to be in a leadership position, generally?

How true is it? That I don't want to be in a leadership position generally. Historically, I have balked. Right now, no, I definitely want to be in charge.

So they are seeing you.

I really do want to be in charge. No, that's true, they are seeing me, but if they're telling me, then it feels like they're putting power back over of like, pat on the head, good job, little leader. And I'm like, fuck you. Okay.

Right. So what they're not seeing is that you already are a leader.

What they're not seeing is I don't need you to affirm me.

Ah, yeah. I just want it.

I just want it. You just, you don't believe that your little like encouragements, mm, argh. That's like the opposite. It's creating a power dynamic that I reject.

So how much of this is about not being seen and how much of this is about your own empowerment?

Yes, I think it's about that.

And how empowering is it to care about being seen or about how they treat you?

It's not very empowering, but I really want it.

So like what I'm noticing is there's like a want component that's not fully lived. There's the being seen component that's not really lived. And there's the empowerment component that's not being really fully lived.

Yep. Want, seen, empowerment. Yeah.

Yeah. So how do you undermine the people who fall into that category? Fall into the dad category? If in any way, how do you undermine them?

Definitely there is a way. Okay. I will affirm that. Let's see. Well, I could think of a few things. One is I just immediately project that she's trying to control me or manage me, even if they're really just doing something that's very normal. Right.

So how does that— just that thing. So one of the ways that you undermine them is project they're trying to control you. And what's your action?

I have trouble being productive. And the more space they give me, the more I can be productive.

I got it. So what you do is you stop performing for them. That's the way you undermine. Got it. So when that dynamic happens, How are you undermining your own empowerment? I'm gonna ask you 3 questions about each of these things. Empowerment being seen in that moment, whatever the third one was that I forgot.

What's the other one? Uh, I'm undermining my empowerment. Well, just the fact that I'm responding to that, it feels like I'm still surrendering my power on some level. I'm still surrendering my power on some level.

Yeah, to rebel against somebody or to do what they tell you, both of them put them in the control seat. Yeah, okay. So one of the things that by undermining them, you've empowered them.

Okay, right. And I've decided I'm like helpless to do other— like it's hard to figure out how to get out of that, right?

Right, right.

Like, I'm not productive, I want to be productive, ah, it's your fault, you know, whatever.

Yeah, yeah. And then the second one is want. How is it that you're abandoning your wants in that scenario where you're undermining them by rebelling against them by not being productive because they patted you on the head?

Yeah, I feel like I'm getting out of touch with the part of me that just simply wants to work on this project, wants to build this vision, wants to contribute to this company. Like the independent of the authority figure.

Okay, and then the third one was— there was empowerment, want, and oh, not being seen. So how is it that you're preventing yourself from being seen in this scenario?

In this scenario, I'm reinforcing a story. I don't know if that's right.

Okay, let me ask a question. You have somebody working for you. And they've stopped being productive. What are your choices in interacting with them to get them to be productive or to accept that they won't be productive? Like, what are your choices?

Sit down and talk with them and ask what's happening for them.

Right, so that puts you in the control position. What's the next one?

I can give them space, just say, hey, you know, Everyone goes through ebbs and flows. Let's just see what happens over time. I could ask somebody else to check in with them, you know, go around the side door. I could take the project away from them. I could, yeah, adjust the project, be like, okay, actually now I just, I need this scope and this time, give you like, I could micromanage.

Right. How about give them lots of compliments in the hopes that they'll respond to positive reinforcement.

Oh, right. I guess that's a thing. It's not a thing I do. See, it's already not even a thing I think about. I'm like, that doesn't work.

Yeah. So out of all these options, how many of them would make you feel seen?

I do think sitting down and asking me what's up really vulnerably without there being any punishment energy at all. That would feel great.

How many people do you know who respond that way? Like, if you were to guess, there's 100 managers, how many would respond in that way?

Very— none of them. Not many of them. Maybe one of them.

Okay, so we'll call it 1% of them will.

Yeah, sure.

In that case, you've proven that 99% of them can't see you. Or what am I missing by saying that?

I don't feel like I need that all the time. You know what it really is, is it's— I'm specifically triggered if it's like, again, a man who reminds me of my dad. Because if it's a woman, no issues. You can do any of those things and I don't care. Right.

So there's these 3 things that all happen, this wanting, disempowerment, and not being seen. Overall, how do you see it that you're creating this in your world? If in any way, I mean, you might not see that at all. You might see that it's actually all their fault. But what is it that, if there's any way you see your creation of it, how?

One thing that I've definitely hit on is I'm not letting myself be seen. Like, it's a—

Okay, how would it be to stop right now and let yourself be seen?

Really scary.

How deep are you going right now and letting yourself be seen?

20%. There's like a submission quality that's not the thing.

Ah, yeah, beautiful. So how is it to be seen without submitting, without surrendering, in your complete empowerment?

It's so hard because then I just want to fight. It's like the two. It's like either I'm like, ugh, one of those.

Yeah, right. So how would it be for you to say to me— this is a scary one for me to ask— how would it be to say to me, Joe, I want to surrender to you or I want to fight you? I don't want to be with you. I just want to surrender to you or fight you.

Yeah, I want to fight you. Yeah. Or I want to roll over. I want to roll over and not get hurt.

Yeah. How much distance did that just create between us?

I was in this saying, um, how much distance? Something about sharing it felt kind of 'Good,' instead of like having an invisible fight happening. Felt like more clarity, like honesty, transparency.

And how does it say to say the opposite of it? How does it feel to say the opposite?

The opposite? I want to fight with myself? No.

I was like, 'Wanna—' I don't know. Let's try that. Yeah, that made me very curious.

So I either want to fight myself or I just want to roll over and stay safe. I either want to fight against myself or I don't want to listen.

What's the opposite of fighting?

It feels like you're still fighting a little bit. I am. I'm totally still fighting. Just a little. It's just like softer. Like, oh, maybe if I fight a little quieter. Maybe if I do it like this. Because then I'll also feel the collapse the other side, and I'm like, wait, yeah, okay, stand back up. What is this?

So how would it be to try it again and feel the feeling of fight or rolling over and then letting your body feel the exact opposite of those emotions?

Yeah, I'm like bringing myself back in. There's some Some like mild dissociation.

I notice you stop looking at me when you're trying to feel this.

Yeah. It— I feel like I lose connection with myself when I look at you. I don't lose connection with myself. It's like a thinner path or something. It's a lot— it feels more difficult.

So what would this feeling be if you weren't resisting it? If you weren't disassociating, if you weren't scared?

It feels really alive. It also feels almost like so alive that also feels scary.

Listening to this interaction, we can see how she feels like there's a dichotomy between rolling over and fighting. This is a false dichotomy that a lot of people hold. It's an indicator that you're in a power-over state of mind, seeing the dynamic as a win-or-lose, zero-sum game that someone's going to win and someone else is not. So many of our conversations are structured in this way, and it can be really hard to move from power-over into empowerment. Let's listen further to see what happens.

So what I've heard you describe so far is something that feels alive and full of energy And undefended.

And I repeatedly have things like, ah, it's maybe not safe, you know, all the other things out here.

How am I feeling about you right now in your estimation?

You feel very calm and grounded. I don't know, you feel— about me though. Yeah, yeah, about you. You feel a kind of awe. It's really nice. Yeah, it feels good.

How much of me is fighting you and how much of me is rolling over for you? You're not rolling over.

You're—

If you had to guess, how much am I fighting you?

Oh, very low. Probably a tiny bit is like very, very low. What's the fight?

That little itty-bitty bit, what am I fighting you for? To do for— what's the purpose?

It's a very light feeling of like my bringing my attention or like being— it's— there's just a very light touch to it.

All right, so there's, there's some part of me trying to control you a little bit. A little bit.

It's like guiding attention, just this like light, light out here.

There's a little bit like, you know, impartiality is I think impossible to get rid of, but there, there is a little bit that's like What I want to know, what the feeling is when it's unresisted. Yeah, sure. So if that's true, how would it be possible for someone to not some way want to control you? Like, even that is a subtle way in which I want to control you.

I don't think there's a way to not do that. I don't think I take strong issue with everyone trying to control me, but yeah.

But when needed, it sounds like it's a good reason to feel like you're not being seen.

What am I missing? It's certainly a surefire excuse of why I'm not being seen.

Yeah, that's right. You're trying to control me.

Yes, of course. I'm human. Yes.

Yeah. And I can't deny I'm still really curious, what is this experience of non-fight, of non-rolling over? What's your body's answer to that question?

Balance came up. I don't like the word equality. I think there's some bullshit in that, but there's something— Yeah, we are definitely not fucking equal.

How could we be? Our hand size isn't the same.

But like balance. There's still a meeting that feels balanced. Where it's not you or me or you or me.

And how can we be balanced with each other without love?

How can we be balanced with each other without love? And my head was like, I wasn't tracking love so far.

Increase or decrease the amount of love you feel towards me and see how it affects balance, if at all.

That was fun. So automatic. Okay. I feel like just patterns in my face being like distance. Okay. Ah, ah, distance.

What's that distance? Like, how does the distance relate to fight or rolling over?

It feels a little bit like it's still fight in essence. It's like, I'm gonna keep you at a distance.

Yeah, yeah.

I will be over here and you're gonna be over there. Yeah. I'm just gonna manage this. But because if you get too close, it's fight. Right. That's what I've decided. Yeah, yeah.

And how does that relate to balance?

I feel off balance back, like physically, somatically. My body is defending back inside. I'm off balance back. I still feel falling forward. That's the motion I'm like kind of holding, trying to— love feels a lot like falling forward.

So what would happen if you took that experience to this authority figure, boss, whoever it is that pats you on the head, says, I see you want to be a good leader, that empowered upright non-falling-forward love, non-submissive love.

Yeah. Ah, what would it be like?

I'll be the authority figure, you see what happens. You tell me, speak from that place and see what happens.

I have been treating you like a person, a person in my head instead of the person who's here.

Oh wow.

I haven't given you a chance to get to know me.

Thank you for that. That really lets me know that you're ready for leadership soon. How much of a relief, how much of joy is there in that pain?

I go to you, I go to you being like, "But you're gonna misinterpret that, you're gonna make it ugh." How am I gonna misinterpret it? You're gonna think, "Let me try to repeat myself," or you're gonna think, "She's not taking me seriously right now." Oh, if I'm in the position of the authority figure?

Yeah. If you go, ouch, then I'm going to attack in some way. Yeah, yeah. I didn't mean that as an attack. I didn't mean to hurt you. Stay in that place. Upright, undefended love. What, what happens from that place?

And it did hurt. Yeah. And it is absolutely fine that you Don't see the way it hurt. It's okay. Uh, uh, yeah. That was perfect.

It was beautiful to see her come out of the session in her stance of empowerment. The stance of empowerment is one where you're open-hearted but you're boundaried. It's one where you state your truth with courage and you're not worried about the consequences consequences or another person's reaction, and you're vulnerable because that's what's rewarding to you and not because of what someone else is going to do. To be empowered is to be in your truth while being open and loving. Let's send some gratitude to our guest for her vulnerability in sharing this session publicly. It landed very deeply in me, and I learned a lot about myself and how I relate to power dynamics. I'm going to close with a few integration questions. Sit in wonder with these questions for for a moment and just see what comes up. How is your relationship with authority influenced by your relationship with your parents? What stands in the way of you loving somebody that you judge? What are things that you judge about others that you also judge about yourself? Thanks for listening.