How Your Body Speaks

There's a way that our body processes, our brain processes, that requires not thinking. And yes, I think stimulation, being in your body, is one of the things that helps that to happen.

Welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I'm Brett Kistler, here today with my co-host Joe Hudson. In view work, we talk a lot about being in our body. There are practices and exercises in the courses where we're invited to feel into our sensory experience and speak from our head, our heart, or our gut, accessing deeper wisdom beyond our intellect. Now, this can be very confusing to people when they approach this work for the first time, as it most certainly was for me. Today we're going to explore what it means to cultivate awareness of what's going on in our body and how it can help us access different kinds of knowing and wonder in our lives. So Joe, what does it mean to be in your body and what makes that so important for this work?

Yeah, so let's take that one at a time. The first one is, what does it mean to be in your body? So the simplest way to feel that is to put part of your attention into your body. It's just as simple as that. So if you talk, sometimes you can talk, your attention's fully on the other person. Sometimes when you talk, your attention is completely on what you want to say. And sometimes when you talk, you can just put a percentage of your attention into your body, and then it changes the dynamic of both the listening and the talking. So that's the easiest way to explain what it means to be in your body.

How does that work? What does it do then to be putting this attention in your body?

It makes it far less likely to be able to lose yourself in a situation. Meaning that to not speak from your truth, to not identify where you are in the conversation, to make it so that you're less likely to be caught up in emotions in a way that's— in which you lose yourself, or caught up in somebody else in a way you lose yourself. So it just increases your awareness of yourself and your own system while you're in a conversation.

Interesting. There's almost a sort of a paradox there, because I think the practice of feeling in your body while you're having a business conversation might actually— one might think that that would get you lost in your emotions. But actually, being lost in the emotion would be not recognizing that it's there. So perhaps having some awareness on our body in a conversation can allow us to be alerted to the fact that maybe we are feeling fear or we are feeling triggered.

Correct. That's what it does, is it brings awareness to your emotional or nervous system state while you're having a conversation. And what I would invite is the people who are listening to this right now to right now put a certain amount of your attention into your own body as you listen. So instead of hearing what I think it does, right, because neurologically I don't have any studies that explain this, or haven't found them yet. But you can just put a part of your attention in your body when you listen to me, and you can feel the difference, the different quality of the listening. What does it do? What's weird about it, often when you have some attention in your body, especially when you're beginning, you might not even be tracking so as well as you normally are what I'm saying, but all the information is actually sinking in. Meaning you could tell me what it is that I just said, but it doesn't feel like you're, you know, grappling with it the same way. And, and that's the other thing that being in your body does, is it actually allows for flow state to happen much quicker. It's why you see in acting or in sports or in music that people will often do some exercise that puts them in their body, that reminds them that their body is there and how it feels, because it helps induce a flow state quicker.

Yeah, it reminds me of a, uh, an, like, an improv intro class that I, I was at recently. Basically every one of the exercises actually involved a lot of movement. It was a fully embodied thing. It wasn't just like, come up with a line right now on the spot, um, but a lot of the actual improv involved like like turning and clapping in synchrony so that your body had to do something at a certain time so that you were just kind of forced to do something from your intuition.

Yeah, that's right. And it's interesting because the artists have really figured this out. You know, they know it to be very creative. This is a requirement, is to be in your body. So people who are doing art, especially any kind of theater or any kind of collaboration of jazz or something like that, they really understand what this means. Like, you don't have to explain it to them because they've have the felt experience of it. Yet teams and businesses often don't utilize this tool at all. You know, they'll sit for a meeting for 2 or 3 hours straight as if that's the best way to be creative or solve problems.

Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of thinking of an opposite situation of being in your body. Like if you're in an interview and you're feeling really tight and constricted and like your body's kind of not wanting to be there can't wait to get out of the hot seat, out of the spotlight, then that's sort of the opposite of being in your body. And the things that you say and the creativity that you have in those moments is very different from feeling in your body.

Yeah, that's exactly how it works, right? So if you're uncomfortable and you put the attention in your body, you immediately become more comfortable. And if you try to get out of it, which is kind of a general principle that I carry with me everywhere, which is embrace the intensity. So it's like, if I'm having a business problem, I don't wanna look at it, I look at it. If I'm having an emotion I don't wanna be with, I be with it. If I'm having a conversation that I'm avoiding, I go have the conversation.

Yeah, if there's discomfort there, feel the discomfort.

That's right, yeah. And it immediately creates more presence, more creativity. And how do we do that in our body? And that's what, so when I'm saying, "Hey, speak from your body," that's what I'm speaking to. Or, "Speak from the silence." I'll say something like that too. And I'll speak, it's just such a hard thing to put into words, but it's like you literally get in touch with the silence. Right now you can get in touch with the silence in yourself. There is my voice and that's taking a certain amount of frequency, but there's a whole bunch of frequency that's silent. So if you pay attention to that silence, or if you pay attention to the silence between what I'm saying.

Yeah, as I'm doing that, I'm having this kind of an interesting experience where I'm going into feeling into my body to think, or to think, see, that's interesting pattern there, but to feel into what I might say next. And I expect there to be silence 'cause it's like the patterning is my body's not a part of this conversation. It's just sitting in a chair and I'm talking. I'm a part of this conversation. My brain is a part of this conversation. So as I feel into the body, there's like an expect— expectation of silence. But what I actually feel is that there is something going on in there. There's a little bit of agitation, like, oh, say something, we're recording, make sure it's good, you know? And like, that's, that's present all the time. But for me to feel in and like be with that gives me more access to, uh, what it is that I actually want to say.

Right, exactly. And so when you're just with the thing and then you let it speak, whether that's your body or silence, or maybe it'll be like your head or your heart, whatever, it's literally just being with that aspect of yourself and seeing what it wants to say. And so our default, for most Americans anyways, is that we're coming from our head and we're saying what it wants to say. But like right now, if you do this very easy experiment and you say, "What does my head want to say?" And you listen to your brain. And then you say, "What does my heart want to say?" And you listen to your heart. "What does my body want to say?" And you listen to your whole body. They're different experiences, right? They have a different quality to them, and so they will want to say different things. And the way I conceive of this is that it's very much like, you know, they talk about the 8 intelligences, or some people have more, some people have less, but we have different kinds of intelligence. And each of these intelligences, you know, some of them speak naturally and some of them don't, and learning how to listen to them and learning how to speak their voice is really an important part of being able to master all the ways of knowing.

Yeah, we did this in one of your courses where we did an exercise in our group where we spoke from our head and then from our heart and then from our gut. And it was just a basic introduction of ourselves. And like my first impression of this was like, okay, this is kind of weird. How am I going to repeat my introduction and speak from a different part of my body? That doesn't make, you know, that doesn't make any intuitive sense to me. But as we went around the circle and did it, we found that like the first, the head introduction was just a lot of facts and data about who we are. And then speaking from the heart, simply from that instruction, speak from the heart, it resulted in a lot more about who we are as people as an introduction. And then speaking from the gut, it really just resulted in a lot more about how we actually feel right now. Like, are we nervous? Are we scared? Are we hungry? And each of those different levels being present in a conversation is a lot more information. And somebody could be listening to the facts and data about what you think you want in a conversation. But they're just not necessarily going to feel you as much as if they really understand what you're, if they're really hearing what your needs are as a person.

Right, yeah. And not only can you speak from them, you can listen from them. So as I'm talking right now, the person who's listening to this podcast can listen from their head, you know, see what I'm saying, try to understand it, decide whether you think it's a good idea or a bad idea that I'm speaking about. Or you can listen from your heart. And what, what is that experience if you're listening from your heart? It has a different quality to it. There's less of a yes or no to it. There's less of a binary nature to it. It doesn't mean that you believe everything that I'm saying, but it doesn't mean you don't either. It's like The idea of judging something to be right or wrong is far less important to the heart. And when you're listening from that place, or you can listen from your gut. And some people just naturally listen from one of these places. Most people in America, their head, but there are some people who are very much operating from their gut all the time. And it can be incredibly successful. I mean, I know very successful business people who operate from their gut all the time, and I know very successful business people who operate from their head all the time. All the time. And it's awesome because oftentimes in this whole world there's like a better to act from your gut, better to act from your head, better to act from your heart. You know, people have all these judgments and they're all part of the same system, right? Essentially they're the same thing, but it's, it's useful to make distinction so that we can learn them, so that we can incorporate and integrate so we can see them all as one thing.

Right. And we do have a lot of this encoded into our culture. We say like, listen to your heart and, you know, go with your gut or what my gut instinct says, or I have a gut feeling about this. So we do have like some of this encoded in our American culture, but a lot of it just seems to have become counterintuitive for many of us where we are more focused on the head and more focused on the logic-y answer and explanation. What makes that the case? What makes it that we, like a population of us, a culture, can largely feel less tightly associated with our heart or our gut or other ways of knowing than our intellect?

My body says that's a really heady question. Like, what does it matter if we know how it got here? As soon as we open up that door, then there's going to be like an intellectual discovery, maybe a debate. Not that that's bad in any way, but what does it get us? As opposed to the experience of being able to experience each of these states and seeing what it does, when it's useful, how we can use it so that it makes our life more effective. So, so just to say, that's like the body response to it. And now intellectually, to answer your question, um, how does it How does this happen? What I notice is that cultures that have really dismissed emotional intelligence really rely heavily on the intellect. That the idea is that these emotions have caused me pain and therefore they need to be managed. And that's kind of where people fall into the intellect, which is like brilliant and has like so many benefits. And as I love debating, like, I think it's like such a wonderful thing. And to sharpen your mind and to see things clearly intellectually is really amazing. And it can often teach you stuff about your emotional experience or your body experience. And it has a tendency to cut off those other forms of knowing, those other intelligences. As do the others too. You see people who are very much operating from the gut and they have a bias against those operating from their intellect. And you see this in relationships all the time. Somebody who's more emotionally led and somebody who's more intellectually led, or at least they think they are. They think they're more intellectually led. And you get to see them have problems and not understand each other. I see this in relationships all the time.

What are some of the problems that can occur in an imbalance in the other direction? If somebody's entirely moving from their gut and maybe paying less attention to the heart and even less attention or placing less attention in their intellect or disowning it?

What you often see is that they're far more, they have a far more greater propensity to believe their stories. People who are more intellectually driven, especially if they've really cultivated that, the world becomes more relative in a way. Not relative like moral relativity, but relative like, "Oh, I see the truth in this. I can see the truth in this. I can believe this thought that I'm having, but I can also see the faults in the thought." And so that creates a tremendous amount of freedom. And if you're not cultivating that kind of intellectual peacefulness really is what it amounts to, then your gut can take you into stories and you can believe them and then they can drive you. It's kind of the same exact way that you see it with head people, right? So people who are more propensity for head, they have emotions, but they don't think they do. They're driving them, but they can't recognize it. Right, they'll have an intellectual debate, you'll see them get angry, but they don't think that there's any kind of emotional thing that's creating that. They don't see the cause and effect on the emotionality. And it's the same thing, like somebody who's like very driven from the gut, they won't see how their stories are affecting them and controlling them in ways that are unconscious or—

Yeah, so maybe they walk into a room and they start to feel anger And so they just believe that the anger means that they've been wronged.

That's exactly right.

Yeah. Okay, I can see that.

And then they have a story about how they were wronged, but they don't question it. And if you question it in front of them, they get more upset, right? So yeah, exactly. It's really about finding and understanding, learning all the intelligences. It's not about one's better than the other, which is, a natural step on the path of learning. You know, I see people who are really intellectual and all of a sudden they understand like, holy crap, my body has all this wisdom. And they start using the body wisdom and then the body becomes the irrevocable truth and direct connection to God and intelligence and wisdom, which is not true either. The body can get confused as well, or the heart does, and the heart can get confused as well. So it's really about being able to listen to all three of them. That gives you a lot more clarity.

Yeah, one of my favorite things that you've ever said to me when I had a question around this topic was, "The body lies just as much as the mind." Yeah. And that's really fascinating to me because these different ways of understanding and knowing in the world are, all of them are being fed by imperfect data from the world around us. That is biased based on our own experience. And there is no, there's no gut knowing in us that has experienced the totality of human experience and knows everything. But each of these different ways has its own, is optimized for different things. And if we fluidly recognize and work with all of them, then we are best able to navigate a changing world.

When I said to you it's a lie, I'm not saying that's not true, but I think that might be a little bit confusing for people who are listening. So I like to describe it like if I take a picture of you and then I walk 2 feet to the right and take another picture of you, both of those pictures are true. They're actually moments in time that are there, but they're both lies because they're going to capture different things. Like they're not gonna be the entirety of the truth.

Right.

And so it's the same thing. It's like there's moments where our thoughts are capturing a small percentage of the truth or a large percentage of the truth, but it's never capturing all the truth. And it's the same with the body. And this is the really uncomfortable piece is that, you know, we are limited to the capacity of our senses and our mind. There are things that we will never be able to understand because of that, because our minds and our senses are limited. We cannot understand, for instance, there's some little itty-bitty shrimp thing, but it's not a shrimp, I think it's called a mantis shrimp, but it's not actually a shrimp or something. It has like 12-color spectrum instead of the 3 red, green, and blue spectrum. It sees things that we can never possibly ever imagine. And so we're never gonna have an understanding like that, the mantis shrimp, or a dog for that matter, right? We have, and they will never understand things that we can understand. And I think that's what makes people really uncomfortable is the truth of the fact that we don't know, we can't know. It doesn't mean that we don't know what's right for us right now. It doesn't make life purposeless. It's just the humility of the fact that there is always going to be a mystery.

Right. And that notion of operating on our limited senses is interesting and another branching-off point for this discussion because something that I and many other people have experienced doing this work is that over time, I've noticed that my sensory experience has actually become richer. I'm able to feel more subtle tactile sensation. And particularly socially, if I'm with people and I'm placing awareness on my body, I will be able to notice something going on in them. Like our social nervous systems have some kind of communication that I wouldn't be picking up if I just parsed the words they said. And so there actually is like cultivating this like heart and this gut and this connection to the body simply by placing awareness on the body, I've been finding has been increasing my sensory awareness of actual relevant communication with other people and my environment. What do you make of that?

So when I was in my 20s, I made an album, I guess a CD, digital music thing. And at the beginning of that, the way I listened to music was so different than at the end of that experience. When you dig into a bass line for 3 hours, you will never listen to a bass line the same way again. Right? So a studio engineer listens to music in a way that I will never listen to music. And You, because of your BASE jumping experience, like feel wind in a way that I can never feel wind. And unless I put a lot of attention and time into it, or, you know, it's the same thing, like with people who live in ice, they all the time, they have like 70 words for ice and we have whatever it is, 3 or 4.

Right.

So there's a sensitivity that comes whenever you start putting your attention into something. And it can seem like magic to people. You know, when people see me do my one-on-one work, oftentimes they think it's magic. And all it is is just years and years and years of cultivating the awareness in myself and then extrapolating and seeing those patterns in other people. And so, yeah, things happen and the field of vision will change or the way we feel things will change, the tactile nature of it. And oftentimes it becomes more enjoyable and a little more overwhelming, like in waves. It's like, "Oh, that's a little over. Okay, now it's enjoyable." Over time. But then it can go deeper into that too. It can go into really feeling like being in touch with, say, your mirror neurons or your social nervous system and start being in touch with other people. And it can look like magic the same way It looks like magic when, you know, the group of indigenous people go up into the hills before the tidal wave, like they know it's coming because they have a, they've adapted to listening to nature for every day, decades and decades and decades. Whereas like we take a walk in the woods.

Right. Or the experienced firefighter that suddenly just has this intuition that everybody needs to get out before the floor collapses.

Correct. Yeah. There's a lot of research on this. Blink by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about pattern recognition and intuition and how that happens in the brain. And then the neuroscience is getting more and more developed on it.

Yeah. I mean, ultimately, whatever there is to say about the neuroscience, just the way the nervous system works is that whatever patterns you are paying attention to and tuned to are going to be the ones that become processed in more fine detail.

That's right. And so as we learn to listen to our bodies, as we learn to listen to our hearts, like it's amazing. Like if I'm coaching a CEO who was an athlete, I'll use the body metaphor all the time because they get it. And if I'm talking to a CEO who's had like a really healthy Christian background, I'll speak to the heart a lot because they really get it. It's like that's been cultivated for years and years and years. And the trick is to really cultivate all of them in a way that they can start integrating and see that they're really the same thing.

Yeah, that was an important part of my journey in this work. For myself, I had come from like a strong athletic background where I had been working with flow in my body for years, but socially and in business, I still had this like, constriction where I would frequently just get up into my head and then try to like create an intellectual path forward through everything. And it wasn't until starting to see how I had already been doing this intuitive stuff with my body and like just taking those examples from my, from my life, like, yeah, if you're flying a wingsuit down a mountain, you don't have time to calculate wind speeds and trajectories. You just have to feel it. You can do all that stuff in advance to give yourself a, a good map of, you know, plans and contingencies. But in the moment you don't have time for that. You just have to do it in your body. And the body will generally, if you're cultivating that bodily awareness, the body will generate better solutions. And it, it was really interesting for me to realize that I had just left that knowing in one realm where it served me very well and then completely neglected it in much of the rest of my life until encountering this work.

Yeah, what's interesting is that when people— oftentimes people understand it and then they'll say, okay, I'm just going to use that body intelligence for when the chips are down, when I have to act fast, right? When I can't calculate. And I think there's some intelligence to that. I mean, obviously that's the best time to use that kind of intelligence. But there's a space for that same body intelligence even when you have lots of time, even when you can calculate all the data. You see this happen all the time where, like, people can spend months calculating all the data to make a decision. And if they get in connection with the rest of their being, not just the intellect, that decision can be made far better and more effective. You can see that all the time. So it's most acute when you're doing something like playing jazz or skydiving or in a clutch shooting a 3-pointer. But it is a useful thing to be in every conversation. And I'll say to the people who are listening again, how are you doing being in your body listening? Like, are you still have some of your attention in your body? And what happens. Like, just notice the difference between how you hear me when you have some of your attention in your body and when you don't.

Yeah, it's a way out of analysis paralysis. Like the episode that we did in The Art of Accomplishment on feel over figure. Like, in a business context, there can be many decisions where if you just keep researching for more facts and data to make your decision, depending on where you look, you'll keep finding more evidence for or more evidence against or more evidence that you don't know what you're doing so that you determine And you need more evidence and you could do that ad infinitum and then just be stuck in that logic. Or at some point, if it's optimal to just make a decision, even if it might be wrong and then calibrate your, your gut, then it, it can be helpful just to say, okay, with all the data that I have right now, let me just process that into my body and see what comes up and then go with that and then pay close attention to the result. And repeat.

Yeah, and there's also like the emotional side of that too, which is like, oh, what's making you need to have the decision be right? What happens if you get it all wrong? What happens if you fail? And to grieve all that before you make a decision can clarify your decision to no end.

Well, then if I fail, I'll feel all those bodily sensations associated with failure.

Right, exactly. Right, so go feel those in advance and then you'll make a clear decision. I mean, that's the thing is that, you know, we know through neuroscience that, as much as you can know, that we make decisions emotionally. Like, if you take the emotional center out of a person's brain, I think we've discussed this before, people make decisions, cease to make decisions. It takes them half an hour to decide what color pen to use or 4 hours to decide where to have lunch. Simple decisions can't be made. We're using our intellect to try to figure out how to get into the emotional state we want to get into. That's what the intellect is, you know. "I'm trying to figure out the right way to win." Okay, well, what makes you want to win? "Because then I'll be safe." What makes you want to be safe? It becomes obvious that it's an emotional decision very quickly.

The emotion sets the priority, and then the intellect goes towards figuring out how to achieve that priority. And feeling into the emotion and feeling into the bodily sensation pattern of that emotion and even beneath that emotion allows us to have more access to that context from which our intellect can serve us.

It's a simple thing of just having access to all of it and incorporating all of it. It also just makes you happier. It's just, it makes you much happier to not be in the intellect or in the heart or in the gut all the time.

Yeah. Well, we have talked about this on, on a previous episode, so maybe we can give this a different twist now. How can we in an organization cultivate practices, for example, in meetings that cultivate people paying attention to their bodies and these different forms of intelligence within a work context? How can you create that in a culture and make space for that in a way that feels welcoming and not esoteric and confusing?

Yeah, there's a couple ways to do it that are really simple that will feel odd if you're, say, like a traditional company. You can make sure that there's time to get up and stretch or move in the meetings, that it's okay for someone to stand up in a meeting and just like shake or stretch a little bit or take some deep breaths. Um, there's a company that I know that they have like a, a signal. I think it's like a, a bell or something in all of their meeting rooms. And when that bell gets hit, there's just like a moment of silence for everybody to just check in with their bodies, to just be present. I think that's what they call— they don't say be in your body, but I think the way they use it is like just get in touch with what's happening right here and now.

Yeah, it seems like a good pattern interrupt for when, when people start going down an intellectual debate rabbit hole that might be off topic, or things get heated, and it might be a good opportunity for people to check in and see how they're actually feeling so they're not just responding from a pattern.

Yeah, yeah. I sat on a board where we would do meditation at the beginning of all the board meetings. That was like 5 minutes of meditation. That was one that was an interesting way to incorporate a different way. I find gratitude practices are another way to not only get into the body. It's interesting how when you're really grateful, you have a deeper experience of your own your own body, but also it helps you see a way of solving problems that's different. Like, when you're grateful, you can see what's right and how to build it, rather than in most meetings you're looking at what's wrong and how do I fix it, which are two different ways to solve problems. So those are some really basic ways inside of— and whether it's a company or a church or a community of whatever activists, you know, there's ways to cultivate that kind of stuff. I had a friend who was a programmer, and the way he would do it, he was mostly at home. 45 minutes in an hour he'd sit and program, and 15 minutes he would be in his body, and then 45 minutes he'd program. And, you know, being a programmer, he every day measured his practices and measured his results, like how good of programming he did, how effective it was. And so he had done, you know, years of experiments to get to this, and he found that like 6 hours of programming a day, 45 minutes on, 15 minutes off, consistently 5 days a week, is what got the most code out of him, the most good, quote, code out of him.

Wow, I love that he did so much, uh, you know, data collection on this.

Huge, huge amount. And I know writers who are the same way, novelists who have realized like 3 hours a day first thing in the morning, that's how I get the most good pages out.

Yeah. This reminds me of strategies like the Pomodoro technique, which, you know, you do some amount of time on and then some amount of time off. And it's sort of the assumption that I had come to that with was that the benefit was from taking a break. The benefit was from like focusing for a while and then just relaxing. But this is a kind of a different twist on it that, you know, perhaps what are you actually doing in that period when you're relaxing? You're probably getting up from your chair, wandering around, making yourself a drink or something. And you know, a lot of times like thoughts come to us in the shower, which is a moment where we are having a lot of sensory, uh, information coming in from our body and like pulling us out of our minds. Like maybe I, I wonder how correlated that is, just having having a lot of sensation bringing us out of the small world of our— like the detailed world of our logic and intellect and into a more complex intuition. Jumping in the ocean being one of those things.

Yeah, yeah. So there's some very famous scientists who talk about how they solve problems. And when you're a scientist, you think about how to solve problems as much as you think about hopefully as much as you think about the problem that you're trying to solve. And one of them who won a Nobel Prize, I can't remember his name, but he would say, I'd think about the problem, I would get into it, I'd like, uh, and if I couldn't solve it, I would tell myself, it's no longer okay for you to think about this problem until the solution presents itself in whole. So anytime his brain would go to think about the problem, he's like, nope, nope, not thinking about the problem, not thinking about the problem until the entire solution was like, foomp. And fell out. And I think it's the same thing, which is there's a way that our body processes, our brain processes, that requires not thinking. And yes, I think stimulation, being in your body, is one of the things that helps that to happen. A break is one of the things that helps that to happen.

I've come to think of, like, emotions and physical sensation as sort of a, like, a doorway to the subconscious. Like if you, if you have a problem and it's a salient enough problem for you, your subconscious is going to be processing it whether or not you are actively doing so. It's just that when you are, when you're using your intellect, you're taking this problem space and then collapsing it down to a particular logical structure that fits in, you know, the 4 things you can hold in working memory at a time, like these 4 chunks. There's some research behind that. And sometimes that's just not enough complexity to be able to solve a problem. And just letting it go and remain background processing in the subconscious, I feel like that's very tightly related to what we've been talking about with the body's wisdom and the body's knowledge.

The reason I call it the body's knowledge or the heart or the head or the— is because they're just good pointers.

Right?

I mean, I don't think our intellect just operates in our brain, and I don't think our love just operates in our heart, and I don't think that our emotions just operate in the gut. It's like they're just, they're just the good pointers. And, and so I think it's just really important to see, see it all as one, um, at one level, just see that it's all just our intelligence. It's the whole system. And all of them are really useful and good pointers.

Yeah, ultimately it's our whole system that is making decisions. It's our whole system that is taking in information and processing it. And the more we feel into and acquaint ourselves and connect to our entire system, the more of our capacity we have access to to navigate the world.

Seems to be. Seems to be the case.

Yeah, well, that's my intellectual sort of wrap-up of this conversation.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was thinking that was an intellectual wrap-up. What would a non-intellectual wrap-up be? Hmm. What's a body wrap-up? Don't forget me, I'm important. You know, the body is either like worshiped in some way, or it's like set aside, right? It's like this burden thing that I have to carry along that's one day going to kill me, something that I have to like take care of. It's like a chore. The body becomes a chore, or the body becomes like the entire way to feel good. You know, you can see that happening with people as well.

Yeah. Feeling into myself to, to like close the episode from my body, I'm feeling just more open in the wonder, in the question. And like the desire is to invite myself and all of our listeners to stay with this, whatever feeling in the body, this episode has brought up, to stay with it and be in the wonder and see what happens.

And how about from the heart? What would the heart— how would the heart want to close this episode?

First thing that comes up is gratitude. Gratitude to be able to have these conversations and to be able to share them. And gratitude for feedback. There's a deep wanting to feel how this conversation and our other conversations lands in people.

Right, yeah, so it's like a desire for connection and gratitude. It's not even a desire for as much as an acknowledgement of.

Yeah, it's an acknowledgement of, and that definitely puts me in a different place. It's definitely a more open place. Where, you know, if I were to walk away from this conversation straight to one of our listeners, I feel like I'd be a lot more curious about their experience than immediately after my intellectual wrap-up, which would've been like, you know, "Well, what do you think? Was it right?

Was it wrong?" Yeah, I remember hearing that from like Oprah Winfrey, and she said like, it doesn't matter who it was, presidents or— the number one thing that people, I think she might even said everybody does, is look over and says, 'Was I good?' 'Did that work?' Or, you know, like, looking to see if it had worked out.

Yes, no, based on a certain criteria.

Yeah. And what I notice is that, like, if we're ending in our heart, that question doesn't arise.

Yeah.

The question arises, like, 'What's happening for you?' arises. Yeah, it's an interesting And so how about if they're all together? What if it's like the gut, the emotional aspect, the head and the heart, body are all in it?

Yeah, from everything, it's just, thank you everybody for listening. Thank you, Joe, for this conversation. I am really looking forward to hearing, hearing how this episode landed in people. So reach out. And speak to us from your, from your heart and from your gut and from your head. Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe and rate us in your podcast app. We'd love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions or comments. You can reach out to us, join our newsletter, or check out our courses at artofaccomplishment.com.