I Can't Hold It All Anymore (Coaching Session)

Welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I'm Brett Kistler, here today with my co-host Joe Hudson. You might remember the coaching session we published last month between Joe and our guest Christopher. Well, we're back for round 2. This time we have Christopher's wife Sadie joining us. In this session, the three of them explore strength and vulnerability, including the vulnerability of anger and other big emotions. So once again, I want to remind our listeners that this is coaching. The conversations we have on this podcast are not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure any disease or mental health disorder. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you enjoy it.

So, uh, you, you all listened to the last recording. How, what, what, how was it for you, Sadie, to listen to it? What did What did it bring up in you?

I mean, yeah, well, Christopher talks in it about how I can get triggered when he's really emotional or really sad and scared. So listening to 30 minutes of him being sad and scared, of course, was triggering me. Just listening to him talking about it triggered me. But it was really nice. I mean, Yeah, it was sweet how you held space for him at the end. That was, yeah, that felt really nice to hear.

Yeah. What is it that triggers you? Before I'm jumping right in, and as you might have found out, I have that tendency to do, but before I do, I'm wondering what would you like out of this session? What would be the best case scenario for you?

I mean, I'm really just open to where it goes. I think just getting, you know, getting closer with Christopher, building our connection, getting more comfortable with how he's feeling with where we are. But really, I don't have like an end goal. Christopher and I talked about that earlier too before this, like, oh, what do we want from this? And I— I'm just open. I have no expectations, I guess.

Okay. And what I'm hearing you say is you want deeper connection with Christopher and you want to be able to have, it sounds like empathy, is that right? Have empathy for Christopher while he's in it without feeling uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Okay. That sounds good. That sounds like something that's possible. So then, then, yeah, please, please.

Yeah, so I will— I want to add to that something that listening back to the episode I did with you, Joe, um, it kind of came off a little bit from my end like, oh, Sadie's so uncomfortable with my emotions. And like, the backdrop to that, uh, was that Yeah, neither of us had any idea of how much trauma and shit was in there. And so once that those defenses broke, Sadie have— yeah, she's seen now things that should potentially only be reserved for, you know, trauma specialists or parents caring for a kid. And so she's, she's done that a lot. And then I feel like Now when I'm starting to get a grasp on it and be able to— I found my connection to myself and I can hold space for me now. I feel like that has kind of traumatized her a little bit, like being with all of that shit. Yeah, so she's shown me a lot of empathy. I just want to stress that. It's just the last year, it's just been like, yeah, you've come out and said, I can't hear you cry more, or I can't like it's just, it's too much.

Yeah.

So just to balance it out a little bit. Yeah.

That was a lot. Yep. So Sadie, just confirming, like, how do you feel? How, if at all, do you feel traumatized by his— what you've experienced him going through?

I mean, it's more exhaustion. Yeah, I think. And it's, it's not every once in a while that things come up. It's, you know, all the time, every day, for hours every day. And it's just been— of course it's a lot for Christopher, but for me, it's, it's just been so much for so long that I think I'm just tired and it's hard for me to— yeah, I guess feel— I feel a little hopeless that this is just what it's going to be forever.

Yeah.

Okay, so what, in your mind, what's the right amount of time that you should be holding space for him? Like, what's— like, what's— I know that's a silly question, but like, what it really— not just your mind, but like your whole system? What is it? What do you tell yourself you should be doing here?

Hmm.

Yeah, I don't know. I think, um, sometimes it, it, it just is so overwhelming, and he has me to come to and talk to, and I carry that burden, but I don't have I don't have that same support.

Yeah.

And, you know, so I don't know the amount of time. It's just more that it's— I need it too sometimes, if that makes sense.

Oh yeah, that makes total sense. What made you sad in the question? Like, the question was, what— how much time do you tell yourself you should be doing that? And like, even now I hear— I see that as soon as the question comes, there's a little more sadness. What is it that creates sadness there?

Um, I think I feel like a really bad partner, uh, because part of me feels like I should, I, I should have, you know, unlimited time. I should have unlimited space for him.

Yeah.

So I feel, I feel really selfish that it's just been recent, I think, that I've been speaking with Christopher really honestly about how I'm I'm kind of at my limit and I can't carry more. So I feel guilty because I know Christopher needs that support and I just don't feel like I can give him everything.

Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is that there's some part of you that feels like you should be there all the time, every day, 24 hours, and there's some part of you that recognizes that that will make you explode. Like, it won't work for you.

Yes, that is spot on.

But the other thing that I'm noticing is I heard in the last conversation with Christopher that he very much— like, he said, I would pay good money to hold her as she— yeah. And so—

oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. To hold her while you were going through your grief in this fucked up situation? And what's preventing that, if anything?

Yeah, I mean, your Connection Course was really nice in that aspect because it not— I don't want to say forced me, but, you know, there was exercises where I needed to, you know, you need to participate. And so I was kind of had to show that vulnerable emotional side. I don't know why. I just block that off. I'm not sure mentally why I'm doing that.

You're telling me that you block it off and you have just cried in front of a stranger twice.

Yeah, like I'm clearly at like the buildup where I'm ready to explode.

Okay, so, so you said you don't know why. What if you had to guess? What, what's the reason why you don't share your pain in this situation?

Yeah.

Oh, that's a hard question. I'm trying to— I'm trying to really guess. I think I just— oh, I don't know. I mean, maybe I wasn't, you know, shown how to be vulnerable as a child. Never really felt that type of safety where I could go to family members and cry. Or, you know, I've always been really independent my entire life. So I think that subconsciously I just like, no, you can handle your own stuff, you know.

How much were you told that your job was to not just handle your own stuff but take care of other people's emotions?

Oh, all the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm curious, what would you like to say to the people who taught you? Not, not, I don't want names or anything like that. Um, what I want is for you to just, what would be the feelings you could express to them right now? If you were to express to the people who taught you that your job was to take care of them emotionally as a child or as a teenager.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm disappointed and I'd be disappointed with them. So I would tell them that they failed. They failed me in that aspect. And I would, yeah, I guess just recognition. I would want them to recognize that I carried that weight.

So can you do it like as if you're— I'll be that Whoever those people are, I'll be that, and you speak to me directly.

Okay, um, I can just feel the emotions bubbling over.

Yeah, yeah, um, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoy— I'm enjoying your emotions.

Dude, do people cry on this podcast?

Do you?

All the time.

All the time.

I once had—

I had once one person once trying not to cry the whole podcast. And then they— we stopped the podcast. They were actually in my office at the time. And then, then they just held me and sobbed for 20 minutes because they held it all in, which was horrible for them. I would like— it made me so sad. So yes, please.

Okay, that makes me feel better at least, because these questions are really bringing the tears. But, um, okay, so if you are that person and I should speak to you Yeah.

What would you directly say?

You tried your best, but you, you ultimately failed me. And I needed you. And you were never there.

And while you taught me independence and, you know, how to be strong and resilient, you didn't teach me how to be vulnerable, and you didn't teach me how to ask for help. And now I'm trying to work on that, and I'm trying to change, but it's become this personality that I've developed where I'm I do everything alone and I don't need help when deep down I do. And I'm mad at you for that. Oh, yeah.

You have every right to be mad at me. Yeah, I know that's not what they would say.

No, no, it's not.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So here we are, and you're actually expressing emotion with me and being vulnerable, not just with me but with whoever will be listening to this podcast, and your name's involved. So you're fully doing the thing that you have problems doing, apparently. So here's the question: what, what, if anything, makes it harder to do it with Christopher?

Yeah, I think— I mean, there's part of me that just feels like I shouldn't feel this way, and I kind of gaslight myself, like, no, you're fine, toughen up, like, deal with this.

And whose voice is that?

My negative voice in my head.

Yeah. If it wasn't yours, whose would it be? Like, who said that to you when you were young? Toughen up.

Oh, my parents.

Yeah.

Just toughen up and, and deal with it on your own.

Yeah.

Like emotions were never welcome.

Yeah.

And also, I think—

So what makes you still listen to your parents' voice?

Yeah, I don't know. I think that's why when, you know, Christopher was like, oh, we should do this course and then, oh, we should go on this podcast. I'm finally feeling, you know, I see that these thoughts I have are not helpful and they're not accurate.

Yeah.

So I'm really trying not to listen to that voice, but subconsciously it just kind of comes out.

So here's a question for you. So you have this voice telling you this stuff and there's some aspect of you that knows it's not true. Yeah, it's, you know, what would be required for you to just like know it was just absolutely full of shit? Like every part of your body, like when you heard it, you were just like, like, it'd be like, you know, it would be like a little kid. A little kid is like, no, but the dinosaurs are still alive. And you'd just be like, oh yeah, sweetheart.

Yeah.

What would be required for you to see it that way?

Um, to be honest, I don't know. I guess therapy, like, would help.

I don't mean a process. I mean like an instantaneous— what would be the instantaneous recognition that would be required to just fully understand that that is not your voice? It's not a voice that's true. It's just— it has nothing to do with you.

Yeah, I mean, it's so engraved in me.

Yeah.

Like just bleeding through my veins, these thoughts of, you know, just be tough and handle everyone else's emotions that I honestly don't know what would give me that reaction.

Yeah. So I'm curious about something. Christopher, just to, in your own words, if it's true for you, can you say something to Sadie Like, um, I never want you to deal with my emotions. I only want you to be with me when you, when you feel like you can.

Baby, I never want you to deal with my emotions for me. I just want you to be with me when you feel like you can. And I truly mean that. And I don't need you to deal with my emotions. And I love you more than anything right now when you're emotional. I love you so much, baby. You don't have to be strong all the time. Fuck that.

You let that in. Usually when this happens, the person doesn't let it in, but I saw you fully let that in. You had like one little flash maybe where you didn't believe something. Is that, is that accurate? Or did you— is it— was it all in? How— what happened?

No, maybe, but no, I, I think I took it in. Yeah, it was nice.

Yeah.

Okay. But still, somehow or another, that sounds like— is that how— how is that enough? As a closed question, but is that enough for you to be able to just not believe the voice in your head anymore, at least with Christopher?

No.

Okay.

But it's, uh, you know, I, I just have to actively work on it.

And so I'm gonna question that. Like, you've had moments in your life where you— and if I'm not saying it's necessary or even needed, like, you're great just the way you are. And you've had moments in your life where you've just seen something and then it changes, right? You've had moments where you're just like, oh, this is not how you cut an onion, this is how you cut an onion, or whatever. And then you don't have to— and you've been cutting an onion the same way for 20 years, but all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, That way makes me cry. This way of cutting an onion doesn't make me cry. And it's changed, right? You don't have to like go to therapy or anything. What is it? What is it that's necessary for you to see that your emotions are welcome and you taking care of Christopher's emotion is actually, um, it's actually hurting him? What would you need to see? What would need to happen for you to just see that?

I guess I wouldn't— I don't know. I don't know.

You know what I'm going to ask if you had to guess?

Yeah, yeah, I knew, and I was trying to guess already. Um, I guess I would need to see some type of action or shift from Christopher.

Yeah.

Because it can feel like, yeah, of course, your emotions are welcome. But at the end of the day, I still am the one that needs to be strong in this relationship because he's not.

Gotcha.

So wait, hold on a second. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna now I'm gonna fuck with you a little bit. He's the one that's actually handling all of his emotions and having them and going through his trauma. That's some strength. What does he need? What? You're the one that's like, "No." I mean, not now you aren't, but for years you were like, "No, I'm not gonna feel it." Which is not handling it. What? How do you have this story that he needs you to be strong? And how do you have the story that this is strength?

Yeah, the, the strength thing is definitely just— it goes back to me having to be like, if Christopher's really depressed.

Yeah.

And really scared and really hopeless, and maybe at the same time I feel the same.

Yeah.

I don't want us to just spiral into depression. So then I'm like, it's okay, let's figure this out. And it's usually me that is that, that takes that role, that kind of nurturing role.

Yeah.

Because it feels like if we're both, if the two of us are like, oh, this is hopeless, like we're never gonna get out.

Let's find out, let's find out, let's find out if that's true. I know it's kind of crazy, right? So Christopher, can you access that space of like that depression where you feel like this that you're just fucking never getting out of this. And so I'm gonna let him speak it and I want you to just agree with him. Okay. Don't try to convince him out of his emotional state. Just actually, like, if anything, just like fully, you don't have to enter into the space with him. You can, or you don't have to, but you're not in any way gonna like fight that current. You're going to go with that current. Okay, let's just see what happens.

Yeah, fuck, I'm never gonna get better. I'm just always gonna fucking release trauma, and I'm just gonna eat shitty food because I'm afraid to eat what I want and be in pain And it's never gonna get better. Yeah, it just fucking sucks.

Yeah, shit.

Oh, fuck.

Yeah, it makes me so fucking angry. I fucking hate it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, I—

go ahead.

Sometimes I don't— I, sometimes I don't even want to live anymore, and it's scary. It feels good.

What's happening in you, Sadie? Like, I see there was moments where I saw like this, um, you were just with him, and then there were some things that he said that seemed like they tightened your stomach a bit, and you like you wanted to be there, but there's a little part of you that like took a step back. But that's how I see it. What actually happened?

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I try to be there and then part of me is like, yeah, I mean, it's just that I agree with what he's saying. Like, it is. It's just shit. And when he's like, oh, I'm going to be like this forever, I'm like, yeah.

You are.

So I just— I guess part of me gets really angry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was actually the cool thing. So how often have you guys just gotten fucking angry about this?

Never, I think.

Okay.

I mean, we— maybe we've taken turns and it's been directed at each other a little more than we want, maybe.

Yeah. So what I noticed is I said angry and you both fucking smiled, and you both are like— you literally laughed. And what I also noticed is that when he wasn't talked out of it, that's where he went. He started saying it sucked, and then he was like— then he, then he was like, and I'm pissed at it. And that's actually where you kind of leaned in a little bit. You were like, ah, like I saw that kind of leaning in. Then he went to the, like, I'm not even sure if I want to, like, live with this. And then, so, so I just noticed there's, like, there's some anger here, and I'm wondering what would be a fun way to get angry at this shit? Like, what would be the most enjoyable way for you two to get angry at— like, you both are totally smiling still. What would be the way that would feel great to go get angry at this?

Uh, I don't— yeah, we— I don't feel like we've gotten angry with this. I don't know. No, throw stuff maybe would be the rage room.

I know you like that.

Yeah, like maybe throw things.

Yeah, and then in the, in the middle of that, I'll probably hurt my shoulder, and then we can be even more mad at that. Because that always happens, right?

Yeah, yeah.

No, but, but there's something really to this because I definitely, um, anger is the emotion that I've had the most issue expressing. Well, while expressing in a healthy way, I've been angry internally through anxiety, probably repression. But, um, and Sadie, you're better at I usually say there are two people: people who get ulcers and people who give ulcers, and we're one each. So you're, you're, you're pretty good, baby, at expressing anger at when you get angry, and I'm good at detracting and internalizing it.

So it's a good story and probably externally somewhat true. However, you need to stiff upper lip, you need to handle this thing, you need to figure this thing out. How is that not anger itself? Mm, yeah, that's a question. How is that, if, if at all, how is that not angry? Anger at yourself?

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely anger. Yes. At least on my end. I don't know about you, Christopher, but yeah.

Yeah.

And when we did the 5th workshop in the Connection Course, when you externalize your inner critic towards your partner.

Yeah.

Oh, I was absolutely shocked by the ferocity with how you talk to yourself and how quickly you broke through to tears when you had to externalize it.

Yeah.

And it just blew my heart open with empathy for you. But also, yeah, that's— yeah, yeah, it was rough.

Yeah. So it sounds like maybe the anger release at this circumstance that you guys find yourself in together also might change some of the way that the anger gets directed. Instead of internally, it can get— it can move— it can get moved. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just curious, I know we can't do a full rage here, and it is good with like a physical, but I'm curious, uh, uh, let's start with you, Christopher. What If you were to just fucking verbally unleash on the situation for 2 minutes, what would it sound like?

Fuck! Oh.

Yeah, I feel the tension. It's there.

Yeah. And speak to it. You just yelled, which is wonderful. I loved it. But if you were to just be like, Fuck you for—

Ah, yeah, uh, fuck you for limiting my life and for, yeah, for causing me so much pain and for causing pain to the person who's the closest to me. And fuck you for depriving the world of all the creative cool stuff I would do if I wasn't ruminating about getting rid of you all the time.

Yeah. Okay, man, it's true. You are not good at this.

Okay. I mean, I turned it into a humble brag there.

Yeah, let's see if Sadie can— let's see if Sadie can show us how this is done.

I mean, this is really— it's actually quite hard, right?

Yeah, it is, isn't it?

Yeah.

So I'm just expressing my anger about the situation.

Yeah, you're kind of like at it, right? So you're, you're at the illness, at the situation.

Yeah.

You have ruined my life. You have taken over every part of me. I hate you. You have crushed my spirit. You have changed my goal— my goals. My dreams are shattered, and I fucking hate you. I feel like you stole my life, and you're just continually stealing it, and you don't care about anyone.

Yeah, cool.

I'm gonna ask you to do— I'm gonna ask you to do a slight variation on that theme. I want you to do it, but this time you're gonna dominate it. Yeah, your anger is there to dominate this fucker.

Oh, let him have it.

I have to really like visualize, visualize it.

Yeah. Okay.

No breaks.

Okay.

I have to really— takes quite a lot of focus, actually.

Yeah.

You have ruined my life.

You've stolen everything I want. You've ruined my future. You've taken away traveling. You've taken away cozy dinners. You've taken away movie nights, events with my family, a future of having a family, a dream of being a mom. Career goals, financial stability, everything I've ever wanted. You have taken and destroyed because you are selfish. And little moments, little moments of joy, you steal. There, there's no happiness when you're around. You bulldoze my life.

Yeah, so it's great.

You're—

there's more anger in there and less— but I mean dominate. I mean, like, I'll give you an example. Like, fuck you, you will not fucking take my fucking life anymore. Fuck you. Okay, I will have all the fucking joy that I want and you can't fucking own me. I will fucking dominate you. I will fucking dominate you. You can do whatever the fuck you gotta do, hurt his shoulder, whatever the fuck it is. I am not gonna have my shit taken away from me. Fuck you. I will fucking own you. You will be my fucking little slavey bitch by the time I'm fucking done with you. I mean, dominate.

Just see where's my popcorn, bro.

I mean, that sounded quite nice, actually.

Yeah.

Okay.

You're not gonna ruin any more of my life. I am done taking your shit. Yeah, I'm gonna do what I want to do and when I want to do it. Yeah, you're done ruining my future.

I'm going to have fun, I'm going to travel, and you can't do shit. And you can stay in your dark wormy hole and die.

How'd that feel?

It felt good. Like, I kind of wanted to, you know, stab something, maybe. Yeah, a little violent. Yeah, yeah, it felt really nice, actually.

Yeah. And I just want to say, for the, you know, anybody who's listening, both of these two things is really important to be able to fully express what I would call, like, the victim anger. Like, you've done this to me and fuck you. And then the fucking dominant anger. Both of those two things are really important expressions if we want to get to clarity, right? If, if, if the anger is kinked, it's very hard to get to clarity. But if we actually move that anger, there's a lot of clarity to be had and a lot of determination.

And so that was really nice.

Yeah, I could see the smile. Yeah, so that's the thing is the, the The kind of the exhaustion to some degree is unexpressed anger that's happening. Yeah. And it's okay to feel exhausted too. So, okay, now that Sadie showed us how to do it, Christopher, I'm gonna get my popcorn. Hold on a second.

All right.

Hey, I—

this is the first time I'm nervous, like actually feeling— yeah, fuck. Okay.

Yeah.

The domineering one. The dominating one.

Whatever feels right. Oh, shit. If you get one place, we'll do the other place. Whatever feels great.

Yeah, I'm so— I'm so fucking over dealing with you all the fucking time. I'm so— I'm so fucking over it, man. It's always there. You're always there fucking pulling me down. And you're making me feel like I'm weak, but I'm not fucking weak. I'm just tired of feeling like this.

Yeah, so, so that's the sadness, and that's usually where your anger goes.

Yep.

Yeah, yeah. So, so let's do the dominant one.

Fuck.

I want you literally to feel like you are dominating it.

Yeah, I can literally feel the blockage, like my— I, I, I lost access to my emotions, it felt like.

Fuck you.

And I don't care if the audio on this fucking recording is bad when I do this.

I'm so fucking over dealing with your fucking bullshit all the fucking time. Fuck off.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep going.

You don't control me. You don't fucking tell me I'm too tired to make love to my wife. You don't tell me I don't have a sex drive and don't want to fuck my beautiful, hot-ass wife every day if I want to. Fuck you.

Yeah, keep going. Don't stop. Come on.

Yeah, no, I ain't going to stop.

You can say whatever the fuck you want. I'm gonna lean back in my chair and savor this fucking moment because I'm strong. I don't need your bullshit. You can't tell me that I have no energy, that I have no sex drive, that I have no inspiration, that I can't do shit, that I can't be productive, that I can't travel, I can't sleep. Whatever the fuck it is, I'm done.

Fuck off.

There we go.

Okay.

Yeah, it does feel good.

It feels so good.

Okay, so the thing that feels so good is that we're bonding over— because this could easily be the thing where it's directed, misdirected at each other. And then one person gets to express this, but the other person just feels. Push down, or, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really interesting.

Wow.

Yeah. So you can be together in the sadness of it, and you can be together in the anger of it, and you can be together in the victim of it. Nobody has to take care of each other here. You can just be together.

Oh, that's a relief. I mean, honestly though, I might be one of the best 40 minutes of my life. So Sadie, if you think that showing your emotion is ever something that makes me love you less, uh This is not— I love this. I love all of you. I love all of you, and I tell you that, and I really want it to get through to you. I love all of you, every part. There's nothing you can show me that I won't be able to love. Any emotion, anything. You can say anything to me, you can feel anything with me. I love you for everything. You're my miracle. I hope you know that.

Yeah, for those of you who can't see Sadie's face, she clearly knows that. Yeah, so what I'll say Just to wrap it up, is that anytime— so it's totally okay to say, hey, I can't do the emotional work right now. I can't be with that big emotion right now. It's totally fucking okay. To tell yourself you should be with it is actually not being with it. So either you're capable in that moment or you're not, and that's fine. Like, whatever that is, that's totally fine. And the more you can honor it, the more you'll be able to be there the way that you want to be there. The other thing I'll say is that what I see— the thing, last thing I saw that what Christopher said is he was talking about how he could love any part of you, and that's because he's learning to love every part of himself. And so as, as one of us, as any of us learn to love the anger and learn to love the sadness and learn to love the victim, we learn to love it in everybody.

Yeah, yeah.

And for those of you who can't see Sadie, she smiled even bigger when she thought of Christopher loving himself.

Yeah, Joe motherfucking Hudson, huh?

Thanks, Isaac.

I appreciate you having the courage to come on here and make really good use of me. Thank you very much for that.

Oh, this was so nice.

Yeah, thank you so much, Joe.

Yeah, can't believe I did this.

I'm so proud of you, of us. Kick ass.

I cried in front of a stranger and let them record it.

Like my nightmare.

And, and yet I just want to say then there is something in you that pulled you towards doing this, because when I brought it up, you immediately said that would be fun. And that's not the little voice in you talking, saying you shouldn't feel this or that, or you should hold Christopher's emotion even if you don't want to. That's not that voice.

Yeah, yeah.

Even right now, you have every opportunity to say Joe, I don't want this out in the world.

Yeah, I'm so brave. This was really nice. I'm happy we did this. I mean, the course was also really nice, but this was— I mean, it was fun to have you live facilitating something, you know, rather than the recording. So this was really special.

Yeah, for me as well. Total pleasure.

Okay, I mean, I, I had to— no, just final words. I, I had to pinch myself several times, uh, that I get to do this with two of my favorite people in the whole world. I'm so, so grateful for this. I love you guys. You too, Joe, you handsome son of a bitch. Get away from my wife.

Okay, pleasure, guys.

Bye.

Wow, that was beautiful. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Sadie. Thank you, Christopher. I really loved feeling the difference in the different forms of anger that showed up and the freedom that was available within them, and just seeing, seeing the shifts that occurred even in real time with both Christopher and Sadie. Thank you both. Thank you, Joe. Thank you everybody for listening. If this helped you, if you, if you enjoyed this, if you think there's somebody out there that you know that might benefit from this and enjoy it, please send it along. And if you want to check out Chris's podcast, it is called Do Explain. Thank you and see you next time. Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe and rate us on your podcast platform. Podcast app. We'd love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions or comments. You can reach out to us, join our newsletter, or check out our courses at artofaccomplishment.com.