Q&A #2 — Connecting with Difficult People, Calling Up Latent Emotions, Limitations of Joe and Brett's Perspective, Body Contraction and Eye Contact

Welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I'm Brett Kistler, here today with my co-host Joe Hudson. All right, welcome back.

Thanks, Brett. Oh my goodness, what a week it has been. Yeah, what a week. Well, launching the, launching the decision-making course, that was That was a lot of work. We put— yeah, I think, I think I did like 50, 60 pieces of content or something in 3 weeks. A lot of stuff.

Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. Seems like you've been, you've been going at it. Uh, it's pretty cool to see that it's launched now. I'm excited. I just got into my first, uh, the first videos of content, and I filled out my, my worksheet today on avoided emotions and decisions that I'm in. And found it really helpful.

Awesome. Good, good, good. Yeah, I can't wait to get your feedback at the end of it. Yeah, yeah.

Can't wait to have it. So we're doing, we're doing another one of our Q&A episodes today. This is the second time we've done this. I think this is going to become a new format that we do more regularly. I hope if we continue to get great questions, I'm going to continue to bring these up and I really enjoy it.

So awesome. Awesome, awesome.

Yeah, let's see how this one goes. All right, so the first question that I, that I have, this is, this one comes from Pavel, and I love this question. I understand that to discover one's triggers, it's helpful to connect to difficult people. Yet in one of the episodes— I hear you laughing already— yet in one of the episodes, Joe mentioned that he does not work with assholes. What is his personal definition of an asshole? Okay, and don't assholes lose their power over us after all our triggers, all our triggers are uncovered?

Oh wow, that's a lot.

Thank you, that's a good one. Great, let's kick this one off.

Yeah, he's good at asking questions. Yeah, so the first one is it doesn't really matter what my definition of an asshole is. What matters is your definition of an asshole and, and what you want to be around and what you don't want to be around, or what triggers you and what doesn't trigger you. With that said, my definition is somebody who continually takes their emotions out on me without apology, without recognition, without making amends, and it happens all the time. So that's the way I would define that. Is it helpful to be around people who trigger us? Yes, it's helpful to be around people who trigger us, but in no way do I suggest like going out and like finding the people who trigger with you most and then like being a part of their friend group and then hanging out with them. You know, I'm not suggesting that you go and find like, you know, like the worst people in the world, say, okay, I'm gonna go commit murder so I can be in prison with a whole bunch of people who trigger me. Yeah, I don't think that's any path to freedom.

You might even say that it's common that we end up finding ourselves attracted to the people that trigger us, and that we, like, sort of in a golden algorithm way, by avoiding certain feelings, we do end up finding ourselves in, you know, in situations where we are surrounded with people that we have trigger with.

That's right, yeah. Especially people we're married to, or people that, you know, who are close to, especially family members. And so there's this reality that there are— So I wouldn't say go find a whole bunch of people who trigger you and hang out. What I would say is you'll be triggered enough by the people that you love, and that's the place to start. That attraction is the way to know the best place to find those folks. The second part is, shouldn't it be okay to hang out with assholes if you're beyond that because of You know, you're never triggered. So I don't know anybody who's never triggered. So I, I assume that there might be some sort of place where that exists, but I haven't, I haven't ever experienced it. Uh, what I have noticed is that triggering does go away, but part of the way that it goes away and diminishes over time is that we love that part of ourselves. That's one way. The other way is that we no longer think that we have to accept something. So typically, I'll give you an example of this. I was working with a client the other day and she told me, "Oh, I don't really want to address this boundary." And the boundary was about someone handing off fear, a business partner handing off fear to her. And I said, "It's not about the other person, it's about you." And two things I can tell you. One is you somehow think it's okay for someone to hand fear off to you, and when you don't, it'll stop or at least become a lot less. And the second is that it's— this is not the only place it is in your life. So we first explored all the other places it was in her life, and then we went to how to draw that boundary in a way, because the boundary that you're drawing of, say, not being around assholes is for you. It's saying, "Oh, I don't have to. I don't need to do this to be loved. I don't need this to be complete." And that's part of how we don't get triggered, knowing that we don't have to be there and accept this. And then when we are there or we do have to be there and accept it because we have another choice that we're making or there's something more important, is a lot less triggering because we know we don't have to. So the other way to say this is it's very hard to love and not be triggered by something that you think can dominate you. Unless you know you can leave, unless you know that you can draw the boundary, then you will feel dominated and then you'll be triggered. So learning to leave is a huge part of how to not be triggered by folks. And then the last piece, the last piece I would say is this idea of being around someone who triggers you all the time. In no way are we like I said, at all saying go hang out with a whole bunch of people who trigger you. But I would say more specifically, if somebody can lift 500 pounds, it doesn't mean that they go and lift 500 pounds all the time. Or if someone can walk on glass, it doesn't mean they go walk on glass all the time. That's— there's no point in that. There's an enjoyableness to life which is really critical. And I think one of the hardest things for us to accept is that our life can be enjoyable and peaceful. That's actually the harder thing. So if you really want to work on a trigger, work on that one. Work on how being in joy and peace for an extended period of time, like, activates a shit ton of fear in you. That's a much better way to spend your time than finding a whole bunch of ways to be at dis-ease.

Yeah, something that I— that came up for me in the, the last question, the phrasing of "don't assholes lose their power over us," that's interesting to me because there's this— there's the perception that they have power over you, which points to sort of like in, in the perceptual hall of mirrors, what would make me think someone is an asshole? It's generally the fact that I feel like they have some kind of power over me, or there's a power dynamic going on between us. And if I actually take care of myself and get to the root of what is actually not okay for me in that situation, I draw the boundary, then suddenly they're not an asshole anymore in my world. What they are is somebody who is exhibiting certain behaviors and characteristics that can come from trauma that I've never seen, that I just don't know. There's just— then the wonder opens up. I just don't understand this person, and I can be curious about it and be curious from a distance of myself feeling safe. So it's, it's almost as though the, like, the existence of assholes in my environment, the existence of me perceiving assholes, is the pointer to where I'm judging. And to the point, a point or two where I don't feel safe and to where I feel like there's, there's a power dynamic that I'm buying into. And as I, as I do the work on that myself, then, then it, it can fall away. And then I find myself engaged with people that I want to be engaged with in my life, and also with an open heart and not judging those who I don't want to have in my life for whatever reason.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

I, I— the other, the other way to think about this, which I think you're alluding to really well here, is that you get a life that you want to have. That, like, the whole idea, to some degree, of the spiritual journey and to go hang out with a whole bunch of people will trigger you— that whole idea is so that you can have the life that you want to have. Shortcut: just have the life that you want to have, and then when triggers happen, deal with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Awesome. Well, thank you, Pavel, for that question.

Yeah, man, thank you. A great question as always. Yeah.

All right, our next one is from Simone. Yeah, Simone says, my work contract recently ended, leaving me with an unexpected peace of mind, sort of a what next or what now, she said. She asks, am I delusional? Why and how can I feel this way with so little money coming in? Why am I okay? What's the difference between letting go and doing nothing?

Yeah, so yes, uh, the thing that I'm noticing in the question itself is the questioning of an emotional state as if emotional states should or could be rational. And, and what's really beautiful about this one, Simone, is that Usually people question the uncomfortable emotional states and they don't notice that they're questioning the positive ones. And so it's really cool that you recognize this positive one and then you're like, "Wait, wait, is this okay?" And so notice what the mind is constantly doing. The mind is constantly trying to manage, see if it's okay to have whatever emotional state that we're having rather than feeling it or enjoying it thoroughly. And when I say enjoying it, I mean enjoying anger or sadness or in this case, peace. So that's the first thing that I notice in it. The question, is it okay? Well, it's happening, so it's okay. That's how emotions work, to think that an emotion that's happening is not okay. I think the other underlying question that you're asking here is, is this dangerous, right? If I feel good not having enough money, will I go and be poor and be homeless or, you know, Some version of that is what the mind is trying to convince you of. And I would say, rather than that, notice that every time you feel good and at peace, the mind shows up with some anxiety because it's actually the feeling of peace and joy that is incredibly difficult to feel and to fully allow in. Just like for some people, compliments are really hard to let in. And so the work is to allow and feel those emotions completely. Um, and, and the mind is going to tell you with every emotion, you know, it's not safe. So if I'm angry, then I'm scared that I'll destroy everything. If I'm sad, I'm scared I'll do it forever. If I feel good, I'm scared I'll lose my ambition or I'll lose my drive. My experience and psychology tells us that if we are in constriction, fear, if we are not at peace, that our capacity to learn, our capacity to grow is deeply influenced in a negative way. So there's no real psychological evidence that says positive thinking is bad for your being at peace, like inhibits your decision-making or your drive or your capacity. However, It is something our mind tells us all the time. So that's the first part of it. There's a second question in there, but go ahead and say what you wanna say, Brett, and then we'll go to the second part of the question.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I think we commonly pattern match to, if we're feeling a positive, peaceful state, that this must mean that we're actually avoiding or dissociating from some deeper reality. I love kind of the way that Brené Brown talks about this as foreboding joy. She describes a situation where, like, okay, close your eyes and picture you're in a car and you're driving. It's just beautiful. You're in the passenger seat, your lover's in the driver's seat. It's just such a beautiful day. And as you're coming around the corner, you two look at each other and you lock eyes, and then the car continues around the corner. What happens next? And Whether this is from watching so many movies or just from life experience or stories, we have this pattern match of, "Oh, something's got to go wrong because this is just too nice." Right.

There's also this weird neurological pattern. We're more likely to pick up what goes wrong than we are to pick up what goes right. When anything is going right, something will go wrong eventually. We notice that. But the same is true said the other way. Whenever things are going wrong, it will go right eventually, but we're not ever worried or thinking about that. In fact, we're doing the opposite. Oh, the good part will never come again. And from a distance, you can absolutely tell good follows bad follows good follows bad, or comfortable follows uncomfortable follows comfortable follows uncomfortable. You can absolutely see it. And we have this mental illusion. It's like a a visual illusion, a mental illusion that we have. It says, oh my God, because it's good, something bad's gonna happen. And if it's bad, we're not like, oh, don't worry, something good's gonna happen soon. It's an amazing— it's an amazing neurological illusion that we have. So what— she had a second part of that question. What were the last couple sentences?

Yeah, yeah, the second— the second part was, what's the difference between letting go and doing nothing?

I would say that letting go is— it depends on how you define it, obviously. The way I define it is letting go is not managing my experience. Doing nothing is literally doing nothing, which I don't really see any humans do. Like, is— they're sleeping, and if they're not sleeping, they're doing something. They're thinking, or they're contemplating, or they're daydreaming, or they're avoiding, or humans do stuff.

So, or they're resting in the peacefulness until, until another impulse arises, right?

Exactly. So doing nothing, I think, isn't an impossibility, whereas letting go or surrender is the non-management of your experience.

All right. Well, thank you so much.

Yeah, good, good question.

Okay, uh, and here is another question. This one's from Kayla. As purveyors of ideas, how do Joe and Brett benefit by positioning themselves as all-time fixers, i.e., messiah-level solutions experts? What kind of experiences are outside of Joe and Brett's reach? How do their experiential limitations affect the ideas they are selling?

I love that.

I'm really glad that we— that somebody sent this one in.

Wait, so do them one by one for me. Just— yeah, yeah, yeah.

So as purveyors of ideas, how do Joe and Brett benefit by positioning themselves as all-time fixers or messiah-level solutions experts?

Okay, so the first part is that I don't want to fix anybody, and I don't want to be a fixer, and I definitely don't want to be a messiah. So, so that, that's the first part. So, but how I benefit, that's a great question. I would say there's some benefits and there's some costs. There's benefits to being in the position, which I don't want to deny, of the person answering questions that people are asking. And the, the benefit is that You know, people show up and have experiences with me that I find deep and meaningful. Also, I think it sells courses and people are interested in participating and getting to know us. So being in that position, I think, does all that good stuff in the world and for me. The cost is separation. The cost is that a lot of people project a lot of shit on me, that, um, some is good, some is bad, but it's all not me. It's, you know, some of it's like, oh, he's so great, and some of it's like, what an asshole. And, um, but all of that is separation. None of that is actually the intimacy that makes life meaningful to me. So to some degree, the cost is, is, is is separation, which is something that I've always— it's always been like a very known cost, and it's always— it always creates some mourning and sadness in me. The other cost that I see, that's, um, I noticed that a lot of people who are in the position of teacher, in this case, um, they get stuck where they are. They, like, their development stops continuing. And so that's another cost, is that to constantly understand that you don't know crap, that you are speaking from your experience, and hopefully that something that you're saying is benefiting somebody else is where it's at. It's not thinking that you actually know anything, that you don't buy or believe your own philosophy, that instead you're constantly in wonder and question about your own thoughts and experiences.

Yeah, and I'd speak, I'd speak from my experience as part of, part of my journey in doing this podcast has been grappling with this question, you know, like Who is it? Like, who am I to be able to speak about these things? You know, Joe is somebody who's been facilitating this stuff for years, and I've been learning it. And it's been interesting for me to go through the process of allowing myself to be seen as a fallible human who can say things off the cuff that might or might not have impact in positive ways, or people can make, make it mean all kinds of things that I may or may not ever know about. So that's one of the things that it is to be human. Um, and I do benefit. There's a, there's a benefit to being on this podcast with you. There's, there's a benefit to having people recognize me by my voice and on the street. That's, I like it. And it's also, it's also a little scary too, you know, in these, in these times, especially it can be kind of scary to be to be known or seen. And I definitely don't want to be, you know, a Messiah-level solutions expert. I don't see myself that way, but I do know that sometimes I might feel like I like that.

Yeah.

It does feel good to feel like I have the answer. And that's part of, part of what I'm doing this work to, to kind of dissolve and see through. Like what would, what in me would have me want to be the person who has the answers? And how can I show up more authentically as the person who's just in wonder, knowing that I only have one perspective? And also put myself in a position where I can access many, many perspectives from many other people and learn as much as I can in this life and enjoy it.

What you're stating there is really important to me as well, which is that every perspective has its limitations and has its truth. Mine is no different. So, and, and I hear everybody's, including the person who's asking this question, that their perspective has limitation and has truth. So yeah, like the, the idea that what we're— if, if you're listening to this and you think that what we're saying is right, please stop. I, all I want is for you to trust your own experience. And to— and do the, the deepest wisdom is in you. It's not outside of you. If, if what I say helps you point— helps, helps you find something, great. And if it doesn't, then, then just ignore it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And speaking to the next piece there, the what kind of experiences are outside of Joe and Brett's reach, I'd say all kinds of experiences.

I would say your experience.

We have all kinds of experiential limitations that affect The ideas we talk about or sell.

Yeah, I mean, for the questioner, it's your experience. I don't know what your experience is. I have no idea. I don't know what anybody else's experience is and I can't speak to them. And what I want is for you to speak from them. I would far rather hear how people are than to tell them how they are. I have no interest in that. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, as, as this being— as this work being a sort of— there's like a framework and there's a process to it, and there's iteration and experimentation. You know, it might be— it is the case that this work works really well for some people and not as well as, at least as a starting point, for many others. And I, I would love to see, as more people find their way into this, to like allow us to learn how we do what we do in a way that is more and more inclusive and more and more, and can meet more people where they are. I, and yeah, work for a varying, like a wider range of perspectives.

I, I agreed with everything you said at the beginning as far as like, this isn't for everybody and And like, if there's no trust, then it's not for you. If there's no resonance, then it's not for you. If, you know, and it may be for you in the future, it may never be, and that's all great. I'm not sure if I want it to be all-inclusive. As far as what I want is for it to be— meaning that like, I don't want to make it so that— I don't want to change what I'm doing so that it, it's good for everybody. I do want to learn from other perspectives. Um, what I, what I want is for it to be the deepest and truest expression of what, what is called through me, what I'm here to do. And hopefully that allows access for lots of people, but I, I don't want to— that's not my goal, isn't so that everybody can learn from this. I don't, I don't want that. What I want is for it to be a true and authentic expression and for it to be respectful and loving and empowering for everybody.

Yeah, I love that. And, and the pushback I'd have is it also just tends to be that people who are in their truest authentic expressions tend to, tend to resonate with a lot of people.

Yeah, let's find out.

So it might be that both of those end up serving each other. But I, I, yeah, I also agree. It's not, it's not about, it's not about changing what we're doing to be, to like fit the widest market.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the truth is I don't want anybody else to change for me. I don't, I'm, I don't want you to change for me. So I, I, and then, and in that recognition, I don't want to change for someone else. What I want is to be my full expression authentically.

Yeah. I love that distinction. Yeah, and that's also what I want for everybody else. That's what I hope people get out of this work.

Yeah, me too. Was there a third part of the question? Was that it?

Yeah, the third part was how do their experiential limitations affect the ideas they are selling?

Yeah, well, what I noticed in that one is that I wanted to say I'm not selling any ideas. I'm like, actually, I am. Literally, there's a course. And though it's not ideas that we're selling, it's experiences and iteration and experimentation, there is— it would be disingenuous to say that there's not ideas wrapped up in that. So what I notice in myself in this one is just that resistance to, "Ah, there's no idea that I'm selling." The resistance in that for me is the idea that I'm trying to convince somebody. So again, if you feel convinced or if you feel like I want you to be convinced, then I would urge you to move away from me and the podcast. I, again, very much the main push of me to do what I do is for people to experience their own truth and their own wisdom. Hopefully I can point to things that were roadblocks in me, discoveries that I had that help them on that journey. And if I can't, then— or if you don't trust that, then— or if you feel like I'm trying to get you to be something, then I would deeply encourage you to not listen to me.

Awesome. Thank you, Kayla, for that question. I really, really enjoyed it.

Yeah.

This one comes from Bryce, and Bryce asks, I find I have trouble calling up emotion that isn't being authentically felt. What are your best ways to call up emotions you know are there but often come at inopportune times? For example, in the middle of work, public places, etc. This has happened several times where I know it's something deep and wanting to express and be felt, but the timing didn't work. And later I've tried to go back and call it up and feel it and nada.

So don't worry, Bryce, it'll come back. If it hasn't been fully felt and welcomed, you'll get it again, don't worry. So there's no rush to self-development. Whatever you don't love and address will show up again. So that's part of it. I think the other part of it is that what I notice is that emotions that are, like are sometimes the trickiest. They only want to have conversations with you when you're at a restaurant. Like, you know, the— you see this happening with couples all the time where the couples will bring up the subject in a restaurant so that they can't have a fight, or they'll bring up the subject in the— like in a place or in a car so that they have to—

it—

they can't get out of the car, it has to be addressed. And so emotions do the same thing. They have like And so if there's not a full feeling of safety with that emotion, it usually shows up. So that's one thing. Second thing is that if you're trying to generate the emotional experience, that often prevents the emotional experience. So if you're trying to call it back up, the best way to do that typically is to hold the memory in your body and in your mind of the time that you felt that most completely. And then see where it goes from there. You will not get the full complete triggered experience, and that's good because then you get to first work with and be exposed to a lesser version of that experience, and that works just fine. And if it doesn't come up and you're trying to get it to come up, let it go. It's all right. Oftentimes, like I said, when we try, we're pushing the emotions away. And so there's a whole group of people that have the tendency to you know, push the emotions away by trying. And, and you'll see that like in the emotional inquiry work where the job is to be in wonder and curiosity about some emotional experience, and they'll try so hard and everything goes away. So that's, that's also part of it.

Yeah, I'll leave that one with your answer. That was good. Uh, the next one I'm gonna leave the I'm going to leave the questioner's name anonymous just because of the nature of this question. Great. Uh, sometimes I feel uncared for and unloved by my partner, even though I'm pretty sure this is not the case. She struggles with showing affection. How do I make peace with this situation without trying to change her?

Yeah. Wow. That's a great question. I have a weird A weird thing I want to say right off the bat is I've noticed that people who have that very hard time showing that affection are often incredibly loyal, as odd as that sounds, but there's often have a pronounced sense of loyalty when they have that hard time showing the expression. So there's a benefit there. So I want to make a difference. I want to create a distinction between accepting her just as she is and asking for what you want or getting the life that you want. And it feels like those two are convoluted in your question. It seems like the, the question is assuming that you're either going to get what you want or you're going to accept her. And I don't want to— I don't want to agree with that dichotomy in my answer.

Yeah, making peace with the situation is not always right. The path to our—

yeah, freedom. Exactly. So, and you can be completely at peace with it and not be in a relationship with her, and you can be completely at peace with it and ask for what you want. So I think there's two things. The first one is how do you ask for what you want, and the second one is how do you make peace with it, and they're not separate. So What I would do is I would have a view conversation with her about what makes it challenging to show affection. And I would be very vulnerable about how it makes me feel and what I want. And I'd be vulnerable about my childhood patterns that made it so that I thought it was acceptable not to have that level of affection and nurturing that I crave. And So I would be very vulnerable about my situation around it and what has created it and what I want. And I would also say in that conversation how much I loved and appreciated her and how I don't want her to feel like she has to be different for me. So all of that would be said, and then I would ask her how she wants to be with that, what feels right and what doesn't feel right. And if she's very clear, like, "Hey, I'm happy to love you, but I'm completely unwilling to be affectionate towards you, then you have a choice to make and it's yours. It has nothing to do with her." And so then I would be making that choice and seeing what felt right. Most likely she'll do something different. She'll most likely say, "Oh, okay. So this is my experience." Hopefully she'll say, "This is my experience. This is what scares me." And then you can support and nurture each other in the healing of both of your patterns. And then life is great, even though it may be complicated and, and fraught with some difficult moments. But you're in a committed relation, a really truly committed relationship there, where you're committing to being supportive of one another as you are. If she is— and so that's great. And, and if she's unwilling to do it, then you just have a choice to make. So that's the way I would say it.

Yeah, yeah, and another thing that would come up from that kind of a conversation is that you can check for your assumptions as well. That there's, you know, in the question there's, sometimes I feel uncared for and unloved by my partner. And to what extent is it that I tend to feel uncared for and unloved? She struggles with showing affection. How true is that? What are some ways she might be showing affection that I'm not recognizing? And, you know, ways that I'm looking for affection that just pattern matched my childhood. It didn't actually match this relationship. So there could be something that comes up there, and in that conversation, she can say, actually, I feel like I'm showing affection in these ways. For me, it's, you know, taking care of things around the house and making sure that the things are beautiful and nice. It's also, you know, making sure that you have time to do your work. There's ways that I show affection that might not be showing up and like, yeah, cuddling with you. But I hear now that you want cuddles, you know, then we can have that conversation.

Yes, that's that. Yeah, very true. And also there's a— there's something else in there, which is the being at peace with part. So the being at peace with part means that you're not actually wanting her to change. So, and, and you're not calling her bad or incapable or incompetent because she's not doing the thing that you want to do. So yeah, the view conversation at, at the beginning is all about being in wonder and questioning your assumptions. And, and the only way you really get that is to see her as full and complete as she is, not wrong or absent or something like that. And, and so that might require having, like, allowing your emotions, like allowing the grief that you're not getting the affection that you want. It might be allowing the anger that you're not getting the affection you want so that you can come into the conversation seeing her as whole and good.

Yeah, awesome.

Yeah.

That feels like a good closure for that answer. I've got one more. This one's more somatic. This one comes from Johnny. He says, let's say there's a sense of contraction or gunk in the pelvis that you're not yet able to fully access or feel.

Let's say, Johnny, let's say, let's say that's the case.

Let's say hypothetically. And so Johnny asks, what might be some other somatic modalities or support that might assist?

Uh, yeah, so I'm gonna question your assumption there. The assumption is that you can't move through it all the way. Um, so I want to start there and then we can talk about modalities. Um, if you know, if you are aware of it, my experience is if you're aware of it, you can move through it all the way. What usually stops us from being able to move through it all the way is the fact that we're trying to move through it all the way instead of be with it and love it. And let it move the way that it wants to move. So we have an agenda for it, we're trying to manage it, we're not in view with it, and therefore it resists and it rebels and it's like, "Fuck you." So instead, what is it to just be with that sensation all day with love and attention and just continue to be with it and not ask it to change and not ask it to be different? So that would be my first noticing in the question. As far as other modalities, breathwork and dance. Breathwork is amazing, lots of forms of breathwork. But in this particular case, I would be doing a lot of deep breath into the— that part of the belly. That would be a tremendous— usually a tremendous asset. Dance, especially in in that part of the body, I find dance has a lot to do with it. But most of the time what I notice is that people see the stagnation as a problem. They treat it like a problem, which increases the stagnation, instead of seeing it as a wisdom, instead of trusting the stagnation. And so that's the main— that's the main pointer I would have for you, Johnny.

Yeah, awesome. I don't have a whole lot to add to that. I would like to fit in One final one. Let's do it. This one final one. This is from Lore. So they said, I'm wondering how necessary the visual eye contact part of you is. Like, if you were blind, could you not do the connection work?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course you could.

Beautiful edge case there.

Yeah. So there's a part of the question like, how much of this is that eye contact makes you, Lore, feel uncomfortable and you're looking for a way around it? I don't know you, so I can't really speak to that. What the eye contact is all about is raising the oxytocin in your system so that it's easier for you to find the place of view. It is just like a training tool. It's like bumpers on a bowling alley. It keeps you in the lanes more easily. So that's what it is. You could use holding hands. You could use having a conversation while hugging. Or just touching each other. You could have gratitude for each other before you start the conversation. And all of those things will help you be in view more naturally until you start to have a somatic memory of view, of being vulnerable, impartial, in empathy, and in wonder. So it's just a way to do it. It's also, for most people who get used to it, it becomes incredibly enjoyable as well. So, so that's what I would say. And, uh, and I want to acknowledge that there's definitely some folks that neurologically are atypical, and I, I don't know, I don't understand completely or have full knowledge of how some neurological atypicalness will affect eye contact and the experience of that for somebody in, in the body. I think there's some folks with, you know, who are more on the autistic spectrum, and there are some folks who are heavily in ADHD where it can have different experiences. But I haven't really been able to find a lot of research on it, so I don't particularly know or understand those things. What's important is if you don't have— if eye contact is not possible for you then find something that allows you to have that deep sense of connection that is not intellectual, that is somatic and/or physical, emotional, nervous system pleasure, something that allows you to have that sense. Since the important part is that this is not just an intellectual thing. And when I notice some folks are avoiding the eye contact, what they're actually doing is avoiding the felt sense in their body because it's too overwhelming. And so instead, just gently go into the body a little bit. Just gently go into the body a little bit and like give yourself time and space. It's all, you know, it's good. Just whatever it does, whatever you need to do, go at the speed that allows it to be pleasurable for you. And what does seem to be the case is that all of us— I haven't really met anybody who doesn't want to connect. There are folks who connection is intense, and so they don't want to do it as much. And there are— but I haven't really met anybody who doesn't want to feel seen, who doesn't want to feel understood, that doesn't want to feel heard. I've never— that person I haven't met. And so that tells me that in, in the inherent— there's an inherent, um, space in all of us that accesses view, wants to access view.

Yeah, yeah, everybody wants to be seen and heard, and for some that might be felt and heard, that might be seen and felt.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Awesome. Well, that's all we've got time for today.

May everybody listening feel seen and heard and well-loved and felt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Oh yeah, the seen thing.

Ah.

Oh my goodness. All right. A pleasure. All right.

Thank you, Joe. Thank you everybody that submitted your questions.

Yeah. Thank you.

I'm looking forward to doing this again.

Thanks for the great questions, everyone.

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