Q&A – Expressing 'Anger At', Playing with Depression, Alone But Not Lonely, Following Connection, Desire and Patience Through Deep Work

Welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I'm Brett Kistler, here today with my co-host Joe Hudson.

We just got our Spotify statistics back for the year and we are in the top 1% most shared podcasts for 2022 globally.

Oh, wow.

And that is fascinating.

I love that.

And also we are in the top 5% most followed globally already.

That's so cool.

And that's just incredible. And we've had over 500% growth of listeners over the past year, over 5x. So I'm just so stoked about that. I'm really, I'm really excited that people have been sharing the podcast, that people have been loving it. And another, another stat that we got from Spotify is that the listener type of our listeners is the devotee, which is to say that our listeners tend to binge the podcast and listen to the same episodes over and over because they just really love them. And yeah, yeah, that just blows me away. I'm so grateful that, that people really like what we're doing and that, that people share it so much. So thank you everybody.

That's amazing. So first of all, it just creates a lot of gratitude. For the listeners. So I want to just thank everybody for sharing the podcast. That's amazing. And I mean, kind of, it's almost ridiculous. It's not like a low self-esteem thing. I'm just dumbfounded that people are into it like this. And I mean, it's funny because, you know, we listen to every podcast before it gets published and I'm like, oh, that's good. I would enjoy listening to that. But still, somehow or another, like in my brain, I'm like, I'm just like, wow, this is happening. People dig it, which is, which is really cool. It's a cool feeling. Yeah.

So, um, on, on that note of gratitude and thank you, we're gonna take this episode as an opportunity to answer some questions, um, that people have, have asked. Last week I posted on our Twitter and in our Circle community to ask for people to just send us whatever, whatever their whatever kind of questions they're sitting with, whatever they're struggling with, and we've got a pretty solid list here.

Fantastic. Okay, cool. I love this idea of a thank you by answering some questions.

So let's dive in. First one that we have is from Laura, with an E, Laura, Laura. And she says, I've noticed myself changing a lot through the Vu practice as well as other adjacent growth practices. I still struggle with the concept of not having anger at. 'in theory it seems very correct and healthy, but I'm not sure what to do when the feeling of anger at does arise.' And she's referring to anger at people, uh, something that we discuss a lot in sort of the courses in the, uh, anger episodes. So she continues, 'I'm curious if you can speak to the difference, if you see one, between feeling anger at and expressing it, and how can I be both welcoming to my feelings but also know that's not an okay feeling?' Aha. And then, how do I negotiate having the feeling, not suppressing or denying it, but also knowing it's not okay? And is it possible to never feel angry at?

Okay, cool. So answer is, I don't know if it's possible, but I, I don't know anybody who doesn't have that experience of anger at. And there's no way I would want you to repress that internal emotional state. And I apologize if, for whatever, in whatever way I've miscommunicated so that you feel like there's some part of your emotional state that you aren't allowed to love or more accept. What I'm saying there is the action of getting angry at somebody. And I'll be even more specific, it's angry at somebody without permission. So sometimes Tara and I will give each other permission. We'll see the anger and we'll be like, "Yeah, it's okay." Or in when we're coaching people or in retreats, we'll say, yeah, get angry at us, it's fine. And we're excited to do that because there can be a lot of healing in that. However, without permission, then it's just manipulation. And whether it's subconscious or not conscious or fully conscious, basically what's happening there is somebody feels out of control. If they get angry at somebody else, it's their, um, bid for control. And that usually means controlling the other person. So, so that's what I'm speaking to, is just not getting angry at somebody without permission.

Yeah, I like the distinction that you've made there about like angry at being manipulating. So it's like one way to tell is if, if my anger is moving through me and as a result or as an action from that anger, I'm trying to change the other person, change their beliefs or their story. Be above them, dominate them, make them take an action, make them feel scared, make them back away, make them be anything, then that's, that's an example of manipulating. And so like what I've been finding through this work is that if I'm, if I'm allowing that, that anger to move in me and I'm just feeling it and I'm— it's like it's my anger, it's, it's not their anger, it's not for them, it's for me, it's for— that anger is for myself to feel that feeling and let it burn through whatever story I have so that I can find my clarity. And then from there I can go to the person.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And, and so the weird thing is that though most of the time when we are angry, we are angry at something, the anger is all about us. So the anger is us feeling overwhelmed, or the anger is us needing to draw a boundary, or the anger is us learning how to not be passive-aggressive. There's a whole bunch of reasons for it. That doesn't mean you're responsible for getting angry, so if you're angry, you can beat yourself up. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that the anger is exactly what you said. It's for us to learn, and it's not about the other person. And at the same time, I know you've experienced this, where if you can hold somebody's anger, if you want to hold somebody's anger and they're getting angry, it can be an incredibly healing thing. To be able to learn inside of yourself how to hold somebody in love when they're angry at you. It's like, feels like a superpower.

Yeah. And in the reverse, when, when I've had a partner, a business partner, somebody who's been able to hold my just wild rage at them and just love me, then that's been an example. Like, those have been times where our relationship has gone way deeper. And also, that's not a requirement. Like, yes, that's not a relationship test. Can you hold this? Can you handle my anger? It's just like, if someone's capable of doing that, then great, I feel even safer. I could be even more of myself. And that also makes me value the relationship more and also more want to own my part and find the boundaries that serve both of us.

Yes. Yeah, that's right. And, and you said it really well. Um, it's not a relationship test. It's not I should be able to be with this anger. I should be able to be in this abusive relationship, or they should be able to handle my anger, or any of that stuff. It's, do you want to be there for somebody's anger? Because maybe you don't due to your own trauma. Maybe you don't due to it's habitual. Maybe you don't because you don't have enough resources that day. Maybe you don't because you're tired. Maybe you don't because it hits your trauma. So it's really just about whether you want to. And, and so don't really make it about anything besides that.

Yeah. And I've noticed part of the journey that I've had with anger in this work is that initially I was like, oh, if I can be there for someone's anger, then that's great. So it becomes a should, like I should be there for their anger, or like I should want their anger. But when it starts to become more like, I guess, authentically a want for me is when I'm like, there's actually deep wisdom in their anger and there's care in it. And if I'm actually feeling and seeing their care while the anger is coming up, then it is really a deeply thing, a thing that's deeply connected to my want. And it's not a, here's a model of the way I want to be or should be to be better about whatever this is and make this problem go away, you know, make my own anger feelings go away.

Exactly. Yeah. Beautiful.

Yeah. There's another piece there about making your anger about somebody else, which is one way to describe anger at is like your anger is about somebody else. And in our courses, there are times where that's, that's invited. You know, we do exercises around this and, and there's sort of a process where you might initially not allow yourself to feel the anger because it's not safe. And so it's suppressed and comes out sideways through passive aggression.

Yeah.

And then the next step is to actually recognize that you have anger. And in that state, you might only be capable of experiencing the anger all about what the external thing you think it is or the person. And so the only anger you're capable of feeling at that time perhaps is what we describe as anger at.

Oh yeah. I mean, I would say somebody who's been self-abusive for a long time, beating themselves up, has a deep critical voice in the head, always is wondering what they did wrong when somebody else gets angry, all that stuff, depression, they need to get angry at somebody. That's a really important step in that process. To just be able to fully allow that emotional experience to just move. And maybe, as you guys will hear, I did a session that'll be— hopefully will make it to the podcast— where it was like a couple getting— had found out they were getting angry at other one— each other when they were really just angry at the situation, and they could share in getting angry at the situation together. So yeah, I highly recommend for people who are self-abusive to move the anger out. And if that's at somebody or at God or at me or at you, do it. Just do it either with permission or do it somewhere where that person can't hear you or know that it's happening. 'Cause it's not their job to hold your anger. They can do it, but it's not their job.

Yeah, find a friend to vent and find the friend that will let you vent and not buy your story and reinforce it for you. But the friend who will just let you vent, —or the pillow that will receive your venting. Yeah, exactly.

Cool. What's the next question? That was a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for asking it, Laura.

OK, so the next question we have is from Eric. And Eric says, I find that I struggle way more when trying to connect in group situations. I know that staying in view is important, though for me it's harder to be both attentive in the conversation and present in my body without ignoring one or the other. And so he asks, what advice do you have for staying in view during fast-paced and complex group conversations?

Yeah, so there's a part of the answer which is just practice. As we learn how to do it, it becomes easier and easier. I think the— there's a secondary thing which is there. I think there's a distinction there. You might not be seen. It's very easy to be in view and be present with what somebody is is saying or doing. That part of it is easy for everybody. In fact, I would say being in view makes it easier to be present with people. The thing that you might not be seeing is that the tricky part is responding. It's, it's the, it's the speaking, it's the being able to, um, interact with them, which you're saying it in the sentence, Eric, but I'm not sure if that distinction has been fully made in yourself. So that's the part that as you practice, it becomes easier and easier to do. What I would say is that typically when it's hard for someone to do those things, there, there's a concern about being right, doing it right, or doing it in a way that's going to get the result that you want. And so I would check the partiality, uh, and the view. So the I and view. That oftentimes it's that partiality about wanting to be liked or wanting to be seen a certain way or wanting not to be hated and wanting not to be ostracized that gets in the way of our capacity to respond. We're judging ourselves in our response. And so I would use the tools that you've learned to learn how to let go of that the consequences and to let go of the self-judgment. And one of the tools that I think is most useful is that when you notice that you judge yourself, see what the emotion is that it's protecting you from. Typically, when we're judging ourselves or somebody else, it's because we don't want to feel an emotion that's underneath it. And so if you fully allow that feeling of— whether it's ostracization or, um, aloneness or you know, the perfectionism or the rigidity. If we fully allow the emotional experience underneath the judgment, then that'll allow you to have a more free expression. It's judgment that gets in the way of our expression typically.

Yeah, I think one of the ways that that shows up for me in the way that kind of I've progressed through the work is I think a lot of people are used to when they're in a conversation thinking about what they're gonna say next and doing a lot of kind of intellectual— this might not be for everybody, some people might just be feeling and not doing so much intellectual, but for me, I've noticed that I used to do a lot of thinking about the topic of conversation and plan my next statement or sentence or question a lot more than I do now. And that by bringing more attention in my body, that signal became reduced and started to be mixed with these like much more fuzzy emotional signals in my body. And initially that started to be a little bit disorienting disorienting. It's like, I don't know what question is going to come out of me next because I'm not spending as much of my, you know, awareness on calculating the next thing to say, which means that I'm actually receiving what they're saying. And the next thing that I say is likely to be far more connected to both of us and the conversation, but I might not have any idea what it's going to be until I speak it, which can be just kind of disconcerting, disorienting at first.

At first, yeah, yeah. And I would say the other, the other way to, to point this out in a way that's useful as far as a hack is just focus on enjoying yourself, not on the results of the group interaction. How do I enjoy this group interaction, this fast-paced group interaction? How do you enjoy that? I would say that's the— if you can focus there, a lot of this stuff goes away. Naturally.

Yeah, that's an awesome pointer.

Cool. Yeah. Another question. I like this. This is fun.

Yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying it.

Yeah.

All right, next one comes from Cat. He asks, can you talk about depression? What is depression and how do I play with it? I love that question. I love that phrasing of that question.

Yeah, I can totally talk about this. I love this question. Okay, so depression intellectually on the, let's use the three minds for a minute. On the intellectual prefrontal cortex mind, it is negative self-talk. It is an abnormal amount of negative self-talk. Abnormal just meaning high enough to make you get depressed. On an emotional level, it's repressed anger typically, sometimes repressed sadness but often repressed anger. The anger is going in instead of the anger is going out or moving through. Uh, so, and then on a nervous system, it's constantly attentive to, um, the next foot that's going to fall, the next attack. So on the nervous system, you're constantly— and, and it's, by the way, always coming because internally your head is beating you up all the time. So the attack is constantly coming, so you're constantly looking for it. So it's a constant diligence, which is why antidepressant and anti-anxiety medicines are often used to treat depression because it's about that, you know, that's the nervous system side of it. And then on a, on a community side of it, it's a, it's a disconnection. It's a feeling of disconnection with people. So it's, it's feeling not feeling like you're connected with each other. And so you can work on depression on all those levels. So interacting with people, um, and making sure that you have a, like, a rich Social life is a great way to work with it. Um, moving the emotions, the anger and the sadness, um, is a great way to work with it. Uh, notice that the voice in your head is absolute bullshit and that it's not true and that it's not serving you. It's not a good boss. Um, there's a whole bunch of tools that you can use for the critical voice in your head. Uh, and for the nervous system, learning to have a deep non-guilty pleasure and sustain it. How do you be in pleasure? The pleasure of breathing, the pleasure of walking, the pleasure of hearing that your vocal cords vibrate in your, in your chest. Like the, like the life in its essence is very pleasurable, very enjoyable. And so how do you learn how to rest in that pleasure and enjoyment? Those are the techniques that I've seen allow folks to move through depression. Now, there's obviously— there's some level of chemical stuff happening in the brain, and, and I'm not suggesting that for some folks, um, medicinal treatments aren't great. And this is basically how it works. And so the— if you're working on it with, with medicines or without medicines, this is— these are the ways I would suggest it.

Yeah, I love that, uh, the piece about anger where, you know, if the anger's stagnant or not moving, this can lead to depression. And also that the— it often results from the anger being turned inwards. Yeah, I've come to see anger as, you know, like connected to, like, a broader sense aggression, and on an even broader sense motivation, eros, like our capacity to move towards and like want something. And if I'm spending a significant amount of that energy on telling myself how to be, then it's like, I might be like, oh, where's all my motivation? I don't have motivation. But all of my motivation is actually going towards—

In telling yourself how to be.

Telling myself how to be and beating myself up. And of course I'm gonna be tired all day and exhausted and need to recover from that on a regular basis. I've never heard it articulated like that.

It is such a great articulation of it. Yeah, you're very motivated to beat yourself up. What do you mean you don't have motivation? It's like a full-time job. You might not even be sleeping, you're so into it. You wake up in the middle of the night beating yourself up. That's total motivation. Do you know the amount of willpower it takes to beat yourself up like that 24/7? Yeah, I love this.

Yeah, it's great. Yeah, so back to Kat's question of how do I play with it? It's like, how much can you enjoy beating yourself up? And like, then what does that do to it? What does that do if you're like, oh, I notice I'm beating myself up. Here's my motivation. Hi, motivation. What happens then?

The other thing that I— the play with it, I mean, you've seen me do this in different groups. So notice that when the negative voice in your head speaks to you in a certain way, you respond almost always in the same way. So it's like, you know, you should work out more, you should be nicer to people. And your response is typically just kind of accepting it as truth and kind of maybe there's like a, "Okay, fine, you're right." There's some energetic response to it. You wanna play with it, have different responses to it. Every time it does it, sing it a musical. Every time it does it, just be like, call it the politician that you hate the most and make a nickname for it or play with it or tickle it or love it or see it as a little kid who's having a temper tantrum and you just need to hold it. Like, that's a great way to play with it, um, is to really not take the voice in your head seriously, the, the critical voice in your head seriously.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that one. Yeah, cool. Awesome.

Thank you. What's next? I'm excited. I want to keep on doing it. Yeah, thank you, Cat. Yeah, appreciate that. Oh, and Eric, do we— I don't think we think— I don't think we thanked Eric. Thank you, Eric, for your question too.

Yeah. All right, next question comes from Dominique. Hi, Dominique. Dominique says, "The more I do the work, the more connected I feel, the more alone I am. What is that all about?" Continues, "I don't feel loneliness, but a very strong and distinct self. I am all alone. Is this a contradiction, feeling connected yet more alone, or simply a more nuanced and distinct understanding of self across a number of identities one chooses?" Hmm, that's a great question.

I mean, there's like 3 questions in there. So yeah, so the more that you do this work, the more you do any self-discovery work, the more the truth comes out. And the truth is that we're alone. Nobody can share— no matter how much you love, no matter how close you are to somebody, nobody can share your experience with you. So that we are alone in that. So that reality is true. And I love that you're making that distinction between that and loneliness, um, that it's not the feeling of loneliness. So that's, that's a wonderful thing. Then, then you start speaking about it, you know, it's an identity and it feels like it's an identity. And so unfortunately, that, that it's not as clear as that. What I've noticed is when I fully allow that identity of aloneness, or the, the identity that is, that permeates behind all the other identities. That's one way to say it. Or the thing that I have always been, that I will always be, you know, even though my body has changed, even though my habits have changed, even though my thoughts are changing, even though my emotional state is changing. Like, what is the essential me Um, what I notice is that both makes me have a firmer sense of identity and less of an identity eventually. There's— it's like my identity becomes more transparent, more fluid on one level, and it becomes more clear in myself in another level, more solid almost in another level. And so if you get into it really deeply, then the question becomes, what am I? And that question isn't really an answerable question. That's a question that you're just in until it illuminates and dissolves almost. And what— there's a, there's a couple sensations that happen when you are in that question for a period of time. One is the sensation of I am everything, and one is a sensation of I'm nothing, like a piece of dust in the infinity of space. And I am all of space. And so both of those are felt experiences that one has when you're in that question for an extended period of time. And it's the same feeling of, I guess, a sense of aloneness without loneliness, or the same feeling of, oh, I have a very strong identity but actually kind of no identity at all. And so there's a bit of a paradox in it until it's lived, and then there's no paradox in it at all. So I would just say that where I hear you are is just in the natural flow of finding out what you are essentially, or what your authenticity is, or what you've always been that can't be changed, that can't be destroyed, that the thing that you don't have to protect.

I love that too. And rather than respond to that myself, I'm going to lead that right into the next question because I think they— this one follows it beautifully. Okay. And so Thank you, Dominique. And thank you. And now this question from Dustin: As I work to release judgments and forgive myself and others, drawing and holding respectful boundaries, I feel good— maybe not enlightenment, but a more lucid state of consciousness. In this state, however, I find it difficult to discern or follow my desires and passions, as though they become more diffuse. This leaves me somewhat immobile with regard to taking action on something new or different. What happens to desire in this above mess, in this, in this whole thing?

In this above mess? Um, yeah. Whoa. So that's a great question. That's a great question. Um, so the question I would ask back is, how do you know that your, that your desires are becoming more diffuse? Or your desires are changing and, and they're— they're— you're finding your more authentic desires. I guess that would be the question. So, and one of the ways you could answer this question is to notice from the moment you wake up until 10 o'clock in the morning, or 2 hours later, whenever you wake up, that you have made 100 choices with 100 preferences by that time. So there's something that's not diffuse happening there's this constant moving towards preferences that happens. And so there's clarity of preference, otherwise you'd just be in bed, and even that may be a preference, right? So, so on some level, the, the question is, is are they becoming more diffuse, or are you learning to listen to yourself differently and therefore don't understand like the really big movements, or that you're in a period of integration, not in the period of action, or you're in an inhale, not an exhale at this moment. Because what I notice is that as we start to see the world differently and interact with the world differently, our desires change. And the way I would say this is, you know, when Tara and I first dated, she was remarkably beautiful. And, and young and everything society would say is, is amazing. And I would have like these little nitpicky things in my mind around, you know, this curve or that, you know, that thing, or, you know, whatever it was, this part of her body. And, and now I am, you know, we are older and we're both middle-aged and we don't look like we did when we were 20. And I can't find any fault in her when I look at her. What I thought I wanted then is not at all what I want now. And so my wants have changed over time, and it's more a reflection of the work that I do. And so if I used to be motivated by finding the perfect body to be with, I'm no longer motivated by that, and what I want has completely changed. And during that, there's this moment of going out and acting and doing the experiments to see what I want. There's a moment of integration of what I've learned and seeing how my, how my motivation, my wants change. And so I, that's, that I would, I would say experiment and play with that, see, see how true that is for you. Uh, the only piece I would add potentially is, it doesn't sound like this at all through your question, but What might be happening is that you were really operating on adrenaline for a long time. You were really operating on pushing yourself and, "Oh my God, I have to," and da, da, da. And as that subsides, you just need to rest. You're just gonna need to like let the nervous system recover before you're ready to go and, you know, dig your next big well or, you know, start your next company or whatever it is.

Yeah, I think what that brings up for me is that I think a lot of us have been used to for much of our lives associating wanting with craving. And when the craving falls away, we wonder where the wanting is, but there's still wants there. And I think this also relates back to Dominique's previous question. I think a lot of times we conflate connection with clinging. Yeah. And when we find ourselves no longer clinging and craving, craving something from somebody, then we might feel more alone but not lonely. And this might be confusing at first, but I think both of these questions seem very related in that way.

I love that. Yeah, I think that all of our emotional states, as we learn to love them, as we're not resisting them, as we're not putting tension in the line and letting them move through, they all become less intense. And sometimes we're like, whew, that's a relief. And sometimes we're like, wait, where'd that go?

Yeah, yeah. And then, which doesn't mean that life is less intense, it just might mean the intensity moves to something else that we're not used to experiencing intensely, like joy. That's right, that's right, that's exactly right. Or intensely enjoying feeling sadness, right?

Or like all of a sudden the thing that was like I could live with because I didn't feel it as intensely, now I can't live with. And so there's the intensity of of being more sensitive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome.

Thank you, Dustin. And the next question we've got is from Calvin. All right, um, Calvin, he asks about approaching relationships with people who have mental health issues. His question was actually quite long, a couple paragraphs, so I'm kind of cutting it down, but in, in it he described a close relative with whom he used to connect very deeply but he's struggled to do so as their mental health has changed. And kind of without going into details about what that was, he asks, how do I approach relationships with people who are struggling with their mental health? What can I do for them and what can I do for myself? Oh, that's great.

So, you know, there are probably better people to ask that question to than me. I don't deal with a lot of folks who, I've had some have mental health issues in my friend group and family, but it hasn't been something that I have a ton of experience with. But one of the things that I definitely realized in that process was if I have a friend who had an injury and is paralyzed, I'm not going to go for walks with him anymore. Your expect— your friendship is going to change. And if your friend is going through mental health, you can't expect them to, depending on the mental health thing, be rational, or to be able to be connected with you in the same way, or, um, be able to, uh, not get paranoid around you, or whatever the situation is, or be even like in this reality, so to speak. So I think the, the main thing is to let go of those expectations of them. And, and, and the, the challenging part for that is typically you see this happen with people with Alzheimer's all the time, is like there's a dad and a mom and there's kids, and the dad, let's say, gets Alzheimer's, and they're not even close to as functional. They can't say the same things, but everybody's treating them the same way. Everybody's like, oh, that's Dad, I have to be scared of his anger, so I'm going to do whatever he says. But the guy's got Alzheimer's, you shouldn't be doing what he says. You shouldn't— probably shouldn't have before. But like, and so you're interacting with them as if they're still coherent when they're not coherent. And so I think there's a lot of relief to be had in recognizing that they, they have had their their issue and you need to interact with them differently. I think that's a really big thing. And, and there's no possible way for you to be good for them if you're not being good for yourself. So self-care is an incredibly important part of that process. It's, you know, you don't want to enter into their mental health with them. You want to make sure that you are taking care of yourself and your own mental health in that process. And it's really critical because just like if all of a sudden you're living with somebody who needs you to cook for them and clean for them and wipe them and all that stuff, it's going to take a lot. It's going to take a lot if you're all of a sudden dealing with somebody who's, you know, constantly walking around the house thinking that there's bugs in the wall that are listening to them. So that self-care is an incredibly crucial piece to it. And then the last thing is go find a professional who can help you. It's really important to find a professional who can help them and to help you. And right now that's hard in our society because there's, you know, there's a lot of mental health issues because of the COVID situation. And, and there's not as many people— I've heard statistics that it's like there's just not enough therapists out there or not enough psychiatrists out there for the people who need it. Um, but do whatever you have to do to find that, that help, whether even if it's just online reading, but do everything you can to get that help and to really understand and find the resources to help you.

Yeah, it sounds like a lot, a lot of what you're speaking to there is grieving the connection that you had so that you can find the connection that is available, and like how deeply can you connect to the person as they are and stay with yourself and your needs without sacrificing yourself.

That's right. Yeah, you're not doing anybody any good by sacrificing yourself in it. And eventually, if you do sacrifice yourself in it long enough, either you're gonna join them in the kind of— in their swirl, or you're gonna just resent them and lash out at some point, neither of which is gonna feel good. Awesome.

Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Calvin.

You know, there's one other piece just for Calvin here is that I would say boundaries are really an important process. So listen to the boundary thing. Boundaries are really important with mental health. That's like some of the biggest part of the self-care is the boundaries.

Yeah. It reminds me of something you've, you've mentioned before where like a lot of the Addicts Anonymous groups have groups for the people who are supporting or like entangled. And I think the same thing can be true for mental health. Yeah, like you need, you need support.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah. All right, thank you, Calvin. And the next one comes from Bryce, and Bryce asks, what does it mean or look like to be patient with our own growth process, and what are some practices that can help with patience?

Oh, that's a lovely question. I don't— it's such an interesting question. The reason it's interesting is because I'm wondering what the question would be like if you asked me, what is it like to be patient with somebody else? And how that question is hard to make sense of. It's hard to make sense of how do you be patient with yourself. But what I notice is that if we think we're— if we're trying to be patient, we're not. That's what I notice. Like, the act of trying to be patient is not patience. Um, so, so you're kind of asking me how to be patient, but there's also kind of the question in there which is like, how do I try to be patient? So I want to just make that distinction. So don't try to be patient with yourself. It, it isn't patience. Um, what I would say is maybe the word that's more easy is, is gentleness. How do you be gentle with yourself? And being gentle with yourself is, um, being grateful for the transformation that's been happening. And that also accelerates the transformation and the growth. So for me, the, the biggest hack in all of this is to regularly, daily, give yourself gratitude for the transformation that's been happening, that is happening, the little wins of the day, the little ways that you saw things differently that The little habits that you didn't do for a day, even if you do them tomorrow, how do you give yourself that— the encouragement that isn't meant to fix you, but just the acknowledgement, the encouragement that is just acknowledgement of what you have done. Growth transformation is easier if we feel good about what we're doing, right? So if I'm like, okay, I've "Done 100 pushups. I need to do more pushups. Okay." Doing pushups isn't fun. If I'm like, "I did 100 pushups. Woo! Hell yes," I'm more likely wanting to do pushups the next day. So how do you give yourself the gratitude? And it doesn't have to be, "Yay." It can just be like, "Wow, thank you, Bryce, for showing up again today and noticing that these thought patterns were getting in your way. And how— and thank you for being here doing this gratitude practice again. And thank you for asking Joe a question. And thank you for, um, I know, I believe Bryson meditates, so meditation. And so to me, it's like, how do you be grateful for the transformation that you're having and see the abundance of that? And and see that it's constantly happening around you. To me, that's the best hack.

Yeah. Yeah, I have nothing to add to that. That's really nice. Um, awesome. Thank you, Bryce. Uh, and I think that's it for today. We have some more questions. Maybe we'll get around to them on another episode. Uh, if you, if you submitted a question and we didn't get to it, I apologize. I'd love to get to it.

Yeah, and if you have a question out there and you didn't know this was possible, please drop the question. Where are the ways they can drop them? Is it—

You can tweet them to us on Twitter @artofacomp, and you can ask them on Circle if you're in any of our Circle communities, and you can also email them to us at podcast@artofaccomplishment.com.

And then Instagram too, so you can find us on Instagram and you can pose a question there as well. So hopefully we'll make a practice of this. If we get enough good questions, we'll, we'll keep on answering them here.

Yeah, I'd love to do this monthly or something, or maybe even more if we start getting floods of questions. Yeah, that sounds great.

Awesome.

Okay, thank you everybody. Thank you listeners. Thank you all the people who've been sharing this.

Yeah, thank you, thank you for for helping those— helping the share numbers and the growth numbers. That just feels wonderful. Appreciate that.

Yeah. And thank you, Joe. I appreciate you. Yeah. Thank you, Brett.

Mwah. Ciao.

Bye. Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe and rate us in your podcast app. We'd love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions or comments. You can reach out to us, join our newsletter, or check out our courses at artofaccomplishment.com.