Question the Assumption

As the thoughts dissipated, as I couldn't believe them anymore, the reality became so apparent. All of a sudden, it is painful to move away from myself, to leave my center.

Welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I'm Brett Kistler, here today with my co-host, Joe Hudson. One of the exercises in our workshops is question the assumption. And you could say that this is an exercise. You could also say it's a lifestyle. You could also say it's kind of a personality type. There are just people who do that as that's just who they are. And, and it's also really, really impactful. It seems really simple, but you can go infinitely deep with it. And there's a lot of different things that it can mean to do that. It can be really annoying, really abrasive, and it can also be really, really revealing and might we even say enlightening. So I would, I'd love to do an episode on the topic of questioning the assumption.

That's, that sounds fantastic because it is, it's in many of our courses that different exercises around it. It's a really important piece. Yeah, that sounds good.

Yeah.

Great.

Well, let's start with what is it? What do we mean by questioning the assumption?

Yeah. So, in any statement that we make, any problem statement that we make, I'm slammed right now. I don't have enough money. I'm not enlightened. There are some assumptions in there that usually aren't questioned. We usually do is we go and try to solve the problem that's been announced instead of actually question the problem itself. And so, well, are you enlightened? Are you not enlightened? Is there a you that gets enlightened? Is that how it works? Is enlightenment something that you achieve or is enlightenment something that just happens? How would you know if you were enlightened? There's all sorts of assumptions to the question. Of, or the problem of, I'm not enlightened, or I'm slammed, or anything like that. And so question the assumption is a way to see through our problems. And in the seeing through of the problems, sometimes they fall apart and sometimes they're just easier to solve. And so that's what it is at its most basic, its most basic form. And its more complex forms are You know, if you're working on, you know, the head, heart, and gut, and you're working on the head in particular, being able to see through your thoughts is a really important piece to not like have them so solid and to be able to see that all thoughts have some truth and all thoughts don't have truth. And so at a secondary level, it is the inquiry that is one of the practices that will help somebody get to a place of awakening or more freedom or less self-abuse. And so, and so that's also what it is. You know, there's lots of forms of inquiry out there in the— and, and, you know, there's vicar, which is like the what am I that the Hindus did. There's Byron Katie, you know, the four questions. There's, you know, the Socratic method. There's all sorts of inquiry forms. And question the assumption is is a way to congeal a lot of those different forms of inquiry.

Yeah, I can't help but notice that you went straight to the, like, ephemeral, like, the, the enlightenment, the esoteric here. And I'm also curious for people to get grounded a little bit in, you know, like, this, this is something that comes up in business all the time. We're like, oh wait, are we asking the right question? What's the actual problem statement here? Um, there's a million books written on out-of-the-box thinking. Which is sort of a similar, like a, like a nephew to questioning the assumption.

Yes.

And yeah, the reason.

Yeah. And how you manage people instead of saying, here's how to do it, it's here's how to do it. And what am I missing? There's so many places where it applies in so many places. But if you're doing it the way that we're talking about doing it for pretty soon you're going to get to a place where you're like, what the fuck do I believe if everything can be questioned? And that can be disconcerting. So, but I agree with you, it's practical in all those ways. But it isn't— the reason I say it is there is a distinction between the way it's used in business, which is really, really useful, and problem solving, which is really, really useful, and when it's used for self-inquiry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so what makes it so important for self-inquiry in particular?

Yeah. So if you are continually believing your thoughts, then there's really— your identity just sticks in place and it's very hard. So one of the ways is like you hear it all the time, and I think in Buddhist reference, comparative thought, comparative mind causes a lot of pain. Which you can also see in the Stoics, which is this comparative thought. Comparative thought is just a set of thoughts that you can question the assumption on. Right and wrong thoughts that can create a lot of pain at times, can, shoulds, can all be seen through with question your assumption. So to be able to see through that also, and it's seen through your identity a little bit at each time. Because most of us identify with the thoughts that we're thinking.

Yeah, yeah. So it's a way, it's a way of exploring the, like, identity, the projections, the thoughts, the worldview. And when you question it, you can then try on different worldviews and find the one that works, works the best. You're always going to be in one, in something. There's, there's generally going to be some, some assumption somewhere.

You trade off one assumption for a different assumption, but the idea here is is what I'm hearing, is that you try different ones and they also, they also become more transparent when you are actively switching them and you can see them and you can see that, like, you can see the, the lens you're looking through. And so that creates a way in which they dissolve. They just become less real, less personal.

Yeah. Yeah. And so why, why would somebody want this? For example, especially in this, like, questioning your core beliefs about how you engage with the world, who you are, what you are, what the world is, what would make that helpful and not just destabilizing?

I can tell you a lot of reasons you wouldn't want it. You know, like, you're not going to be right. There's going to be nothing to defend. There's, yeah, there's, it's definitely destabilizing for some people for a short period of time. Also, like the, the, like I've literally, I think we've spoken about this once, but I remember working with somebody where we saw through a lot of this and they had a hard time like going to the grocery store and deciding what to buy, you know, like it can, because they're, what's happening here? Like, I don't even know that, like even that is questioning. And so those are all the things that can be uncomfortable about it. Most of them very fleeting. Why you want it is because it's a tremendous amount of freedom to not have to defend your thoughts, to not have to defend yourself, to be able to see through the things that cause you pain, to be able to shift your worldview and see the truth in different perspectives makes it so that your relationships are usually a lot better. So there's just a lot of benefits, but mostly it's just the freedom. If you're not constrained by this is what is true, this is what is right, this is what is wrong. Not to say that there isn't, there's in a weird way, right and wrong becomes even more, like even more, like it's more commanding is the way I would say it. But the idea of right and wrong goes away, which is a very strange thing. So, yeah, so those are all the reasons you'd want. There's just a tremendous amount of freedom in it and really good for problem solving. Like, if someone can say, you're totally full of shit, and you're like, yes, here's exactly how, boom, boom, boom, boom. And here's what I see, boom, boom, boom, boom. And what do you see? Like, it's so easy to problem solve when your thinking is flexible.

Yeah. And one, one thing that I, that I observe when people are questioning the assumption is a lot of times there's certain assumptions that we're ready to see and we're ready to question, other ones that we're just not. And you can see this where a lot of times people will take on the identity of like, oh, I am a questioner of the assumptions. I, I'm not going to take what, you know, society tells me. I'm not going to take what the government tells me. I'm not going to take what the YouTubers— and I'm just going to take on a different like, and that's just natural. I think when we start to actually question our assumptions, there's certain sacred cows that we're just not going to even see that we're not looking at. And so we can kind of go on a journey of, you know, questioning, questioning things that are low-hanging fruit that seem like, seem like they're getting us somewhere, but they're actually getting us deeper into a particular worldview. And I'm curious for, for your experience in working with this tool, over, over the course of your life, what, what did you wrestle with and how did you wrestle with it on that journey towards like finding, finding the deeper assumptions to question and the sincerity to question the ones that are the most scary?

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, so I would say that for my journey, I kind of avoided questioning the assumption in a bit in a weird way because I saw a lot of people who were like naturally questioning the assumption. It was like it was just them trying to prove themselves right. Right? So it just felt like there was a lot of, really, why is that? Like, it was lawyering. It was, it was, it was, there was like debate to be right, you know, that kind of stuff. So it didn't appeal for a while.

Then there was a part of it, aggressive Socratic questioning.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. It was, they were skeptical and it was, their questioning was a form of their skepticism. So, which is definitely not what we're talking about when we're talking questioning the assumption. And then I questioned As you said, like a questioning assumption because I'm not this, I'm not that. But that was really just me rebelling against the authority figure that was my dad. And you see that a lot with even people who say they're contrarian investors. It's like, really? So tell me about your rebellion against your father who was an authority. It's almost always there. So that contrarian-ness is it's also— and I discovered where I found the tool, but I discovered the way that I was using it at that time was very much still being controlled by the system because I was rebelling against something. So I couldn't see the truth in the thing itself. It was just to find the other way that was more right. You know, it wasn't actually seeing the truth in both sides. And the lack of truth in both sides. So then it just, in my journey, it just, it slowed down a bit and I started to question my assumptions. At one time, I literally just, I think it was like a week and a half. I just questioned everything. I just questioned every assumption, like, and everything ended up to be this is and isn't. And it made me a little crazy, to be honest with you. It was definitely like, what, who, like, it felt like the ground got ripped out from under underneath me. I didn't know what, like, how do I make a fucking decision from this place if there's no clear right and wrong and what the fuck's going on? And that was really destabilizing for me for a little bit. And but I did it really hardcore, just like I was merciless for like this week questioning everything. And then over time, as that integrated, what happened was the more that I saw through, I could see different perspectives, the more I saw through every perspective. The more it became crystal clear what I was supposed to be doing. And there's this phrase that I only learned recently, and it's a Tibetan Buddhist phrase, and it says, "Mind as wide as the sky, action as fine as barley flour," which is very fine, meaning basically your mind, the way I take it anyway, is that your mind can see everything, can see all the perspectives, and it's it's as wide as the sky. It's vast. There is no truth or there's no right and wrong on that level. But the rest of your system, it is incredibly painful to act in a way that is not kind, not compassionate, not the— what we might call right, the right action. So, it's not a morality of a thought process. It's not a morality, you're bad. You're good. It's like, oh, for me to judge you means I have to close my heart. To close my heart hurts. I'm not closing my heart. I'm not judging you. And so, and in that, there's only one action for me to do is keep my heart open. I can't do anything else. And so it's, what was interesting is that as the thoughts dissipated, as I couldn't believe them anymore, as they fell apart and I could see through them, the reality of what was painful, the reality of a consciousness that didn't serve me became so apparent because I couldn't be distracted with a thought saying this is right or that's wrong or this person's right and that's— and it just became all of a sudden my behavior became far, far more moral, but not moral like a sense of morality, moral as in like it is painful to move away from myself, to leave my center, to do something like lie or close my heart or be self-serving in a way that didn't consider other people.

Yeah.

Doesn't mean I still can't act out of ignorance. That's something different. But still, so it's a very strange thing. And so that's what I meant earlier when I said on one level, right and wrong is completely gone in the head, but the action is very clearly just, it's very fine because you have no choice but to act in a way that is compassionate.

Okay, so that's sort of answering already the kind of next question that I have, which is a question that I guess I had, but I still want to dig into a little bit more, which is How would somebody make decisions if they're questioning every assumption and they're just in this constant free fall? And then that kind of just branches off into the sub-question of like, how do you know that you are actually questioning the assumptions and not just taking on an unquestioned identity of, I'm the one with no thoughts. I don't believe in good or bad. I'm just going to chill here and— Hey, I would presume— that a litmus test for that is, are you taking clear and precise action? Because I imagine that one of the concerns of just questioning the assumption, going all the way hardcore mode, would be that no action would be taken. And it also seems like that would be one of the side effects of not really doing it all the way.

Yeah, it's a great question. I don't know if it's a step process, like if there's just this necessary time of like, I have no idea. I know that a lot of the people that we teach will have moments of they I have no idea how to act anymore. It doesn't usually last more than a couple of weeks. And, and even though they don't know how to act, they are acting. So there's, there's still shit happening. There's just their brain can't make sense of it because the brain didn't make the decision. So there's, it's a very interesting piece. So I think there is a step where it seems like that's required or at least natural for most people. So I can say that it's a, what's a Great question is, how do you know if you're doing it? I would say the way that you know that you're doing it while you're doing it is that it gets uncomfortable. Like, the assumptions that are the most important to question are the ones that you hold most dear, and to question them is uncomfortable. So there's moments of discomfort, there's moments of embracing intensity that come with this practice. If you're not doing that, then it's not actually. And the other thing that happens is if the other way to know that it's actually happening is if someone like attacks your ideas and you get defensive, it's like that's a, that's an idea you haven't seen through. So that defensiveness is another really good litmus test of like, because you need to be right, you're valuing correctness.

Yeah, I would imagine also aggressiveness in you.

Yeah.

To the extent that you are aggressive, even if you're questioning an assumption, but doing it with force.

Right. Yeah.

That's probably something you're defending. There's probably an assumption in your world.

Yeah. It might be necessary to do that for a bit, but yes, generally, like, it's more and more joyful and heart-opening, even if it's scary, even if it's, oh, fuck, what if this is true? Oh, fuck. What is this? Oh, shit. This, this could make my whole world fall apart. I think there's another litmus test in there too, which is really such a great question you asked, that there's going to be a couple of moments where you're like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to relate to anybody anymore. You're going to have those moments. I don't know anybody who's really deeply questioned their assumptions and not thought to themselves, oh, I might not be able to— I may be going too far out there and I might lose people I love.

Yeah, I think that's an experience that a lot of people have just in life as they, as they grow up in a different world than their parents grew up in.

Yeah.

And they go out there and live a different life. There's, there's a way that that kind of fear just comes up, I think, for anybody, unless you are like the most strictly adhering to the ideology that you grew up in and somehow live in a piece of the world that stayed the same enough that actually that works. Somewhat for. Somehow you didn't come into contact with something that breaks that. So I think that's a, that's kind of a universal human experience of like, I've had these experiences, whatever they are in my life. And now how do I relate? Will I be able to relate to, to home, to where I came from, from my origins, from my friends, my family, my political party?

And that will come up. And that will come up because you're questioning all that stuff. So I don't think you're right. I think it's like all squares are rhombuses, but all rhombuses aren't squares, meaning that like if that's happening, it doesn't mean you're questioning the assumption. But if you're questioning the assumption, that is happening. Yeah, from time to time. And so I think those are the good litmus tests for it. That feels right.

To add a piece right there, it sounds like life experience leads us to question assumptions, but we can do it more explicitly if we choose to. We can make it a practice.

Yeah, that's right. That's beautifully said. Yeah. I mean, I really— to see through all of my thoughts, and when I was doing it originally, it was to see through the painful thoughts, you know, the shoulds and the self-abuse and stuff like that. And that's something else. That's like something else that happens is that, like, you get to see through those thoughts as well. But eventually I was like, looking to see through everything.

Yeah, yeah. If you see through the comforting thoughts.

Yeah.

I've found personally that when I see through the comforting assumptions, I see that they actually weren't that comforting at all.

Yes, exactly.

There was some fear of losing it. There was some convincing that they were actually held in place. They were holding, holding some other emotion at bay.

Yes, that's right.

So I had the assumption that I'm safe on some level. Like, you know, kids have this assumption at some point where they're like, Oh, we all live forever, of course.

Yeah.

Because it would hurt to imagine mommy and daddy dying. And then eventually, yeah, life experience comes, brings us into contact with mortality and we're like, oh boy.

That's right.

There's a whole layer of assumptions.

That's right.

Whole like depth of assumptions to, to explore there. And to whatever extent we do, we do uncover those really uncomfortable emotions that are also very freeing.

Very freeing. Exactly. Because it's like, there's some freedom in saying, oh, I'm never gonna die, but there's more freedom in, absolutely, I'm gonna die in that. And I can't believe any thought around that that causes constriction. Oh yeah, that, that's gonna happen.

Like, yeah, yeah, all these memories are gonna be poof, you know. Yeah, whatever it is I'm doing in the world will fade away. Or a transference without my control.

Yeah, and not— none of it will be remembered eventually. There's so much freedom and relief in that, you know. And I remember when those thoughts were scary. Yeah.

So we talked a little bit earlier about how there'd be no right and wrong here, and one thing I know from working with people directly is that people often have a tendency to really, really, really be attached to their notion that there is a right or wrong, or that there's a morality. This seems almost religious to even talk about. I mean, it literally is religious if we're talking about in the context of religion, but without that context even, there's— so, so how, without just kind of casually dropping that bomb earlier in the episode, not going deeper into it, uh, what, yeah, what else can we say here about how, how, how right and wrong play into the question of the assumption? Concept.

Yeah, I think I, I wish— I don't know if this is for sure. I'd have to research it, so maybe we can research and put in the show notes. But there's, there is some thought process of like the more empathetic somebody becomes, the less their sense of right and wrong like locks into place. I think, I think that the right and wrong thing is very religious because like somebody is partially because their identity is attached to it, right? Like, so No, it's really wrong what that person did to me because they need to be identified as that, or it's really right and wrong because my religion, I'm very identified in the religion. So that's why I think it becomes really important. And I'm not, it's interesting, I'm not particularly saying that there's no wrong or evil in the world, so to speak, meaning that there's actions that pull us away from ourselves, in other words, pull us away from God, that we would call potentially sin, but we could just call it pain and suffering because it pulls us away. And the more that that happens, I'd say the more you could categorize that as wrong. However, when you start judging wrong or right, when it's a thought process in which you're judging wrong and right and this is wrong and that is right, A, there's not a tremendous amount of freedom in it. B, it's binary thinking, so it shows that it's fear. C, you're not actually understanding all sides of the argument, so you're maintaining ignorance on purpose at that point, if you can see through it. So all of that's happening, and it doesn't actually help you be more compassionate. So it doesn't even matter what religion you're looking at, there's like, we'll use Christianity for instance, like how many times is Jesus considered wrong in the New Testament? It's like endless time. Like he hung out with hookers. Like, you know, like he did all these things that he wasn't, he was like, you know, was hanging around lepers and he shouldn't have been hanging around. Like it's like so much stuff that he did that people got upset with because it was wrong. And so There is really no religious figure that isn't— Gandhi, Martin Luther King, a lot of people said wrong. That's not right. That's wrong. Right? So it's seen through it, seen through the idea of it so that you can get to the truth of it, I would say is the best way to describe it. You're seeing through the idea of right and wrong so you can get in contact with the truth, which is leaving love, leaving yourself, on some level creates a tremendous amount of pain for yourself and others in the world. And the more that we do that, the more likely is going to be something that's painful and the more likely it is people are going to call it wrong.

Yeah. I like the framing of maintaining ignorance because in whatever framework or worldview I'm in, If I see something that I'm about to do as wrong, and that's where I stop looking, then I also stop learning. If I see something and I can see all the way through my, my judgment of it as wrong, but I can actually see what might happen if I do it and how it would feel and the consequences of it and the nuance there, then it, it's not wrong. It's just this consequence and the way that it feels. And I don't want to do that. And I understand more deeply and I learn more quickly what I want and what I don't want and how I want to be.

Yes. And the other thing is the healing process, meaning like, let's say something horrific happened, horrific happened to you. You got raped. In your healing process, there's some way that you're going to have to give up on the fact that the person who raped you was wrong. Like when I see people heal from deep trauma, deep pain, they have to, they go through a process of not holding the other, like we call it forgiveness. Like, you know, you have to forgive to get to your freedom. That's like one way to say it. But basically what you have to do is you have to stop making them this monster. You have to open your heart to them. You have like, and it's really hard to open your heart to something that your mind at least says is wrong. You can say, yeah, it was totally not okay for that to happen to me. It's totally not okay for that person to do it for me. But You can't see them as wrong and still heal. Yeah. And so that the sense of right and wrong prevents a lot of healing, prevents a lot of healing in this world. Yeah.

Yeah. I could say that healing, a lot of healing happens from seeing in a, in the deepest perspective what was actually happening. And to move into just sort of like the childhood trauma type thing where once we see like, oh yeah, my, my parents were scared. And that's like their, their fear came out in a certain way and it felt like attack to me and I took it to mean I was wrong or that the world was dangerous or whatever.

Yeah.

Then seeing, seeing through and just seeing the entire situation for what it was both relieves us of any self-judgment we have or relieves us of judgment of the other and also gives us a deeper perspective to avoid those, uh, outcomes again because we can see them coming from a mile away.

Yeah.

Or if we see something coming and we can't even avoid it, like we're actively being mugged on a street in Panama.

Yeah.

Then we can at least be in that moment seeing it clearly without making ourselves or others wrong and take the action that we need to take.

Yeah. There's this, um, the other thing that the right and wrong, the other way to say it is like, you know, they talk about like when atrocities have been done by people like Hitler, Pol Pot, or any of that kind of stuff. It's like they made the others, the people that they're oppressing, they made them into others. They're not humans. They're not people. The beginning of that is they're wrong. The first step of that is they're wrong. You have to think that they're wrong to hate them. I mean, you can see this in our political divide in our country right now.

Right.

Everyone, you know, it's the first step of dehumanization.

Right.

It doesn't mean that, just to be really clear, that doesn't mean what is happening is totally not okay. And I'm even to the point of I'm going to fight to stop that. Great. Not saying not to do that. I'm just saying you can do it with an open heart and you can do it without making the other an animal or taking steps to make them less than you.

Yeah. And to kind of double-click there on the open heart.

Yeah.

Which is a deeply embodied experience, like fighting with an open heart without making the person you're fighting wrong.

Yeah.

There's, there's something that that does in our beliefs and our concepts and our strategies, but there's also something that really does in the body. And I want to get a little bit more into what the question the assumption practice does with our connection to our bodies, with our embodiment.

Yeah. So like I was saying before, why, uh, mind is wide as the sky, action is fine as barley powder. It— what's happening is that you're, you're aware of the pain. Your body becomes a a big part of the morality, so to speak, of right and wrong. Like the action that you have to take because there's no other choice because everything else is painful. It's painful because you're aware of your body. Also, it just— the more you see through your thoughts, the more you're in your body by nature. You just can't trust those things, so you can't live in your head. You got to also— they're trustworthy in certain ways. There's some ways that they're fucking fantastic and you love them. And it's not like they get thrown out. They just get, they just get seen through as, I guess the way I would say it is like they're not the operating system, they're the like Windows layer, you know what I mean? And so you're just like, oh, that's not the computer, that's just Windows. So, so it's the same thing. And that, and that just lands you in your body naturally.

Yeah. Yeah, we've talked about this before, but a thought, you can see a thought as a form of management.

Yeah.

If you really pay attention, every thought you have is, comes from the management of an emotional or physical state.

Most, yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

I would say 80%.

Oh, let's say most.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So what does this then, what does this, how does this affect the voice in the head in general? We've talked about this a little bit so far here, but I just want to kind of zone in on that piece for a moment.

Totally just takes the power right out of it. Just takes the power right out of the negative, negative recurring voice in the head. The reason I said most is because there's like these epiphany thoughts that happen. There's like the spontaneous first-time thoughts that sometimes are management, but sometimes they're just like, whoa, check that out, or oh wow, look at that, or epiphanies. I would not put them in the category of always being in control, of trying to control or manage, but all the recurring ones I would say for sure are, and that's what starts dying when you see through your thoughts. Those recurring managing ones, you're just like, nonsense, nonsense, nonsense.

I don't know, I'm like checking in with that myself. And anytime I've had an epiphany, it's been a completely like non-conceptual physical experience the moment before it became described. Correct. Before I had like, so there's almost even a way that like the thought that is, that I would call the epiphany is actually the, the the results of the epiphany and my tendency to want to make sense of it and then communicate it or do something with it. Yeah, but it happens very, very quickly.

Yeah, on that level, absolutely. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah.

So lastly, just, uh, since we talked about the body and the voice in the head, I just want to talk about identity. What— yeah, what can somebody who's really deepening into this practice of questioning the assumption expect in terms of their identity?

Yeah, we touched on it a bit. We touched on it a bit. And I— yeah, it's just that a lot of us identify ourselves with our thoughts. And when you stop— when you start seeing through all your thoughts, you also see through the sense of self. In fact, one can say that the sense of self is a thought. They're like— the most basic thought is there's an I. I am this. I think this. That's just a thought. Really? There's an I? Like, prove it. It's incredibly hard. If you really look into it, it's an incredibly hard thing to prove. And it's like, so a perfect example of this would be, oh, I thought that there was some thoughts that weren't managing. Right? And, well, who had that thought exactly? Like, was I think— did I say, I'm going to have this thought, and then I had the thought, or did the thought just appear and I noticed it? So is it me who had the thought, or was like I was receiving the thought?

What was noticing it?

Exactly. Was awareness the thing, and then I claimed awareness as me? So you can— and that, in that, if you really go into that question, if you really go into the question, what am I? Which is the core thought, that when you see through that, the identity shifts. When you see the truth of the question, what am I, which doesn't particularly have an answer, you just have to sit in the question, then all of a sudden, I would say the question dissolves in a way. The identity totally flips at that point, and the identity stops being personal and becomes universal.

That is, of course, assuming you want your identity to shift and that you have any idea what's going to happen when it does.

Right.

And that that's what you want.

Yeah. Or I would also question the assumption that you would have a choice to make that a question if that question didn't like already like turn you on and flip a switch in you. And I remember when that question came to me, when I was introduced to that question, I asked that question like 10 10, 15 times a day for fucking 7 years or something. I asked that question and it took no discipline. It wasn't like working out. It wasn't like drinking enough water. Okay, I got to drink enough water. That thing just happened. And so was it me who even had the question in the first place? It wasn't even the discipline. And that was part of the scene of it. When that question dissolved, I was like, oh, it wasn't. Even me asking the question. It was more— it felt more like the question was asking me. The question was like, I am fascinated with Joe, so to speak.

Anyway, awesome.

What a pleasure.

Feels like a good stopping point. Thank you, Joe.

Thank you, man.

Yeah, and thank you everybody else. Please, if you enjoyed this episode, share it around, like us, rate us. Uh, we love seeing reviews. Uh, we've been getting some good ones lately and they make my heart sing every time.

So nice. And we have a YouTube channel now too, Brett. Yes, it's happening.

Yeah, yeah. If you're listening to this, you can watch us now on YouTube. Yeah, part of accomplishment.

You can watch us and there's all sorts of teaching videos and rapid-fire coaching happening there. So check it out. All right.

Okay, thanks.

Ciao.