Building Better Habits

When the holidays start to feel a bit repetitive, reach for a Sprite Winter Spiced Cranberry and put your twist on tradition. A bold cranberry and winter spice flavor fusion Sprite Winter Spice Cranberry is a refreshing way to shake things up this sipping season and only for a limited time. Sprite obey your thirst.

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we undressed the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And you guys, we are actually having just somebody I'm so excited to have in studio today.

So excited.

Followed her a long time on Instagram. We have the Sobersis in studio. Jen and Dave's gonna tell her. Tell you more about her.

Yeah. Before I dive into Jen's bio, I want to thank you guys for starting off your year with us. We are at the start of 2023. If you're listening to this in real time, it's January 2nd and for the first time ever on this podcast, we are every day for the first 14 days of the year releasing a new episode. All of them are going to be interviews with just fascinating people who have helped us personally and we want to share their wisdom with you. And so today's guest, we're starting the year off strong with Jen Couch. I want to read her bio. Jen Couch is the founder and creator of sobersis community and leader in the Sober Curious movement. And she lives in Fort Worth, Texas with her hubby of 27 years and two adult children in their young 20s. Sobersist was born on Christmas Day 2017 and since then more than 200,000 women have downloaded her free Happy Hour survival guide and over 30,000 have participated in the 21 day reset challenge. And those numbers are growing every single month as she works hard to get the message out to more women. She's a motivational speaker and author of Look Alive Sis which is coming out in spring of this year, so be watching for that. It's her passion and life's calling to create a space where women can renegotiate their relationship with alcohol without labels, judgment or shame. She coaches women who feel stuck in the gray area of drinking on the drinking spectrum and helps women get off autopilot and mindless sipping through the habit of wine o'. Clock. She's all about holistic health and promotes freedom from the detox to retox cycle sharing. Through her personal faith, understanding of science and ability to facilitate connection. Lives are being changed every day. Women are becoming more fully alive through sober minded living and more present in their own amazing lives. And we are so honored to have her. And even though Jen's focus is largely on women, as a dude, I have gotten so much, so much out of learning from the Sobersis. So, guys, stick around. This is for you as well. We're going to have a great conversation. Let's dive in. Welcome. Jen Couch, also known as the sober sis. And we've been following her for some time and just love the content this that you're putting out there. And we wanted to have you on right here very early in the year here on January 2nd, because I think a lot of folks are in the mindset where they want to look ahead at this coming year and change their relationship to alcohol. And I think you are just, just the person to kind of help us reset and maybe look at how we've dealt with alcohol in our own lives in a healthier way and maybe in a new way. And so welcome. Welcome, Jen. Thanks for the great work you're doing.

Yeah, thank you for having me. And I love using the term relationship with alcohol because that's kind of what it can become. It's just a part so much of our lives and our social life and just the way we unwind or what we do for fun. Yeah. So I would love to hear.

I mean, I know a little bit about this because I've been following you a long time at Obersis on Instagram, which if you're not following her there, please go follow her. You'll love all the content she puts out. But I would love to hear kind of the origin story of.

Of why you do the work you.

Do today and kind of what led you down that path.

Yes, I'm really, really passionate about it, and it's a role that I would have never have foreseen come. So that almost lets you know that God's got a hand in it. Oh, yes. It's not something that you would have necessarily chosen for yourself, but it is no doubt exactly where I need to be and what I need to be doing. But I have firsthand experience from struggle. And I think often, you know, we've heard it said in Christian circles. A little cliche out, you know, no message without a little bit of the mess. And that's where I've come from. But I kind of speak into something called the gray area of drinking, because my mess was more internal than external. My mess, if you will, or what was not working, was not visible to other people as much as it felt to me. And so I was actually a little Bit later in life. Drinker. In the first place, I really didn't drink in college or in my 20s. I mean, I had drinks here and there for sure, but it was not my thing, if you will.

Yeah, sure.

And so really in my 30s, I'd already been married about a decade, already had kids on the ground, even almost school age. And I was working in a home based business. And so I was at home by day and out by night doing these meetings in different hotels and hotel lobbies and happy hours.

Oh yeah.

And that's where drinking really entered my world. Was really in my young 30s as a young. And it was also a time where the culture was really changing to make drinking just so much more prevalent, socially acceptable any night of the week for any reason. And I just, I bought right in. I was like, awesome, where have I been? And that was kind of me in my 30s, just kind of learning the ropes, if you will, kind of catching up to most other people and had a few epic fails in there. But that was more just learning really how alcohol affected my body. It wasn't until my young 40s that I had at that point, teenagers. The year I turned 40, our oldest, my daughter turned 13. So it's like, okay, game on with the 40 year old and the 13 year old and just all the transitions of life and the anxiety became really clear to me that I was actually an anxious mom because I was trying to let go, but also, you know, was fearful at times. And so kind of cue up wine o'. Clock, Cue the music. Cue up wine o'. Clock. And that's when I really noticed the biggest shift for me where drinking was not just something social or something just, hey, you know, take it or leave it. It was more like, is it five o' clock yet?

Like you need it. Yeah.

You're like, I'm counting down that I.

Can certainly wait till 5 o'. Clock. In fact, all day long, I've done everything right. I was the mom that was you going to my morning Bible study, hitting the noon yoga class, juicing my kale, literally in the same kitchen that at 5 o' clock would crack open the bottle of wine while I was cooking as kind of like my reward and kind of me time and kind of my way to just kind of like, hey, I'm doing it right. I'm getting everything done. Super not high functioning, but like over functioning, if anything. And so five o' clock was kind of like, now everybody rel. I am. Let's get that 80s music on and get that spaghetti cooking and before I knew it, that had become such a habit. What started out as just kind of a reward really turned into a habit for me. And I really felt kind of stuck in that detox to retox loop for about five years, 40 to 45. For me. I was like a yo yo drinker instead of a yo yo dieter. Like a yo yo drinker. Stop starting, do all kinds of juice cleanses, whole 30s, all the things. Because I could stop. I could physically stop drinking anytime I wanted, but mentally, emotionally, I did not really want to stop. Or if I did, I felt miserable, left out. And like I kind of that relationship. It's like I'd lost a friend.

Yeah.

Drinking was like, kind of like my buddy, like, oh, this is going to be hard or this is going to be boring or this is going to be anxiety.

I look forward to so.

Yeah, exactly. And so I started sobersis. That's your question, but that's a little bit of my background. So I started sobersis after I spent about a year on this sober, curious journey of knowing that I did not have a healthy relationship with alcohol, but also didn't feel like I was physically addicted. The term alcoholic did not resonate with me. In fact, if anything, I compared myself to other people's drinking and always justified that I wasn't at that place. So that actually kept me stuck. But when I started hearing terms like gray area drinker and creating a life you love that's alcohol free or just more present, that's when for me, even as a person of faith and as a mom, I'd read, you know, 1st Peter 5:8 be of sober mind. I'd never put the two together. That being of sober mind was not even about sobriety and as much as about being present, awake, alert, aware in your own life. And that's what I was not after 5 o'. Clock. Before 5 o' clock though, I was like, get her done. And after 5 o', clock, I was just kind of drifting, drifting away into just kind of playing small, kind of keeping quiet and just kind of downplaying my own presence in my own home.

Yeah.

Wow.

And so, you know, I know that that had to have an effect on your marriage and home life. Could you tell us more about that? Like what it looked like back then, going through that?

For sure. So in my 30s, that's when my husband started drinking as well. In fact, we kind of made it our couple's thing. I think a lot of couples can relate with that. Just kind of the groupon to go to the Wine tasting. You know, let's go to this brewery and do a flight of beer samples. And it was fun. It was like an activity for us.

And it felt grown up.

It's like, oh, holy day. It was like we were with kids all day and then we could go adult together. And it felt really good. Like it was kind of magic. It was like, all right, let the hair down. This is our thing. You know, he could drink his ipa, I could have my wine. And that was great. But I will have to say, after being almost married, a decade without alcohol, really invited into our relationship, there was a switch. It was very, very subtle. It was not overnight, but it really actually. When I look back at some of our biggest conflicts, when I look back at some of our most disconnecting times, one or both of us were under the influence of alcohol almost every time. Almost every single time. If I look back and I'm like, wow, that was. That was quite a blowout. Yeah. Or, wow, one of us usually me, really overreacted. You know, alcohol makes you just extra sensitive because it. It really heightens the emotional side, the limbic system, but really downplays that prefrontal cortex, that rational side. So it's kind of a recipe sometimes for complete disaster. Yes.

Very impulsive. Like what I hear you saying, like with that prefrontal. Totally this, the impulsive responses, totally reactionary oftentimes.

And things that are little get big.

Oh, yeah.

And really, when you're sober minded of just sober mind, present, awake, alert, aware in your own life, you see it for what it is, often under the influence. It's just like it magnifies everything. And that can be kind of fun if it's good, but not good. If there's anger, resentment, frustrations. That was me. I was like wife by day. That was like, yes, hon. Yeah, let's talk about that later. And then we'd go out, have our date night, a few drinks, and before I know it, I'm altered, my brain is hijacked, and now I'm not communicating at all. Really what I did feel inside, but it didn't come out right.

When you walk into a Burlington, you're.

Walking into amazing prices and great gifts. That's main character energy. Because at Burlington, the holiday savings aren't.

The only things turning heads.

Discover quality finds and perfect presents for everyone on your list, even those who are hard to shop for. Toys and jewelry to new beauty brands and styles. These gifts go seamlessly from our stores to under your tree. Seriously, with these savings, why shop anywhere else? Burlington Deals brands Wow.

With Black Friday savings at the Home Depot, you can get up to 40% off, plus up to an extra thousand dollars off select appliances like lg, America's most reliable line of appliances. Check out the newest LG refrigerator with new mini craft ice straight from the dispenser. Shop Black Friday savings on select LG appliances plus get free delivery now at the Home Depot. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $396 or more. Offer valid 11. 5 through 12, 3 US only. See store online for details. I think so many people listening right now, their eyes are opening up big and saying, like, wow, that's my story. And I never really thought about my relationship with alcohol or even the fact that I have a relationship with alcohol. Even that word, that phrasing is being a problem because, like, you were. I can justify saying, like, well, I'm not like that guy over there, this girl over here. I'm light years away from living in an alley and drinking out of a brown paper bag. I mean, I'm getting stuff done. I'm healthy. My doctor says I'm fine. I mean, there's nothing wrong with me. But to really take a step back and say, but am I fully present? Always. Is my relationship with alcohol causing some harm? That would not have been there in my relationships or in my mindset or in any part of my life. And so I think it's just a really important question to ask ourselves. So when you got to that place where you're like, you know what? I don't like my relationship with alcohol right now. What was the process of changing it? Because, you know, once. Habits are hard to change.

Yes, they are.

And you know, once you've, you were in that, that space of looking forward to five every day and even in marriage, like your date nights being very centered around making sure there were. There was drinks present. I think, yeah, most people listening can really relate to some of that. It's like, well, it's not, it's not a date night if we're not doing something.

Exactly.

So change in your mindset, though, to say we want life to look different and we better and we feel like our relationship with alcohol has gotten to a place where it's causing harm and not good, or the harm's outweighing the good at least. What did that change look like? What was that process? And I think this is when a lot of folks listening are really going to lean in to say, okay, maybe there's something here in your journey that we need to apply to Our own. Because this was, I guess, about a decade ago. What was the timeline that you actually.

It was just short of six years ago. Okay, Six years ago. Yeah. So I started my own journey in 2017.

Okay.

Yes.

All right.

And it feels like a decade, though, at times. And then other times, it feels like not that long ago. It's not lost on me. I really do remember feeling stuck and feeling the struggle because it was something that really was weighing on me. And I didn't even know how to talk about that because there was so much shame and guilt that I was struggling at all. Here I was, you know, Christian mom, Christian wife, mentor. At our church, we did premarital counseling. We're counseling other young couples on how to connect. But yet this is actually turning into more disconnection in my marriage than connection. So that was even hard. So I think for me, learning about the science behind alcohol was empowering. It made it less of a moral failure and more like, oh, my brain is actually working. It's working just fine. Actually, it's my pattern that's broken. I'm not broken, and it's my thinking. And so that's exactly what I started doing, was changing my mindset, not my behavior. Because I'd already done behavior modification numerous times through willpower, just white knuckling it. I'm a rule follower. I love lists. I could do it. I could do it for so long until I couldn't. And that's why moderation, for me personally, was exhausting, because I could moderate. I could stay on top of it until, you know, something happened. A crisis, a tragedy, a stress, or just a regular old night that I was like, you know what?

I've been good.

I've been good. I deserve it. Yeah. And so for me, I really had to change my mindset around wine o' clock and practically start changing some of my choices around so that at 5 o', clock, I was setting myself up for, yeah, that's good. Instead of, like, teeing myself up for more defeat by just doing the same thing over and over again.

And, you know, you shared a post fairly recently, maybe last week or the week before last, and you said you were talking about this mind shift, and I loved. I don't even know if I got to tell you about this yet, sweetie, but you were saying, you know, we need to kind of switch how we think about alcohol. And instead, you know, of looking at it, like, losing that best friend or that thing you look forward to each day looking at it and saying, is this good enough for me? Am I saying this right?

Totally.

And I just. I thought I've never heard anybody say it that way, but you're like, you're taking back the power, right?

That's right.

And you're saying, is this good enough for me? And what you're saying is you learned that it wasn't good enough for you because you were really in the moment, enjoying it, but really paying for it dearly and having shame associated with it. And like you said, the cycle of the detox retox back and forth. And so can you speak more on that? Because I feel like I'm not articulating it as much.

You're doing great, but thank you for saying that because that's one of probably my biggest aha moments on the journey, especially early on, that I apply it to life now instead of asking the wrong question, which is, is this bad enough? Is it bad enough? Yes. What has to be lost before I change? I mean, that's kind of scary if you think about it. It's scary. You know, I used to pray, God, take this away. Take this away. Take this desire away. And really what I heard God say is, jen, I really want to partner with you. I don't want to take it away. I'd rather enter into that relationship that you have with alcohol and figure out where I fit in with that versus taking it away. So when I approached it, instead of is it bad enough? Which it never technically was, I switched it around to, is it good enough? Is this good enough for me? Not what am I losing, but what can I actually gain by letting this go? Or at least changing it. For some people, that may not be letting it go completely or that may be a starting spot just to be curious about it. And in taking that break is really when you discover, hey, wait a minute, I feel better.

I feel better. Yes.

And that is motivating. But sometimes we have to get that clarity, that sober mind to even know. But, yeah, changing the question really helped me because every time I said, is it bad enough? I just looked around and I was like, well, it's not that bad.

Yeah, like they said, I'm not stumbling around on a street with a brown paper bag. I do think that that's. That is what we think. Well, that's rock bottom. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not quite there. But I do think when you reframe it that way, it just. I think it is asking a better question, you know, and speaking of that, like, what would you say now, living on the other side of things where you're not feeling like this toxic relationship with alcohol. What have you gained?

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Wow. A lot. Yeah, a lot. A lot of things I didn't even realize I was missing out on. I just thought it was normal. I mean there I was, 45, almost 46. I just thought it was normal to feel kind of tired, kind of overwhelmed, kind of behind your game, kind of like, you know, you missed the boat, kind of like it was over. Kind of like just bide your time, you know, be a professional patio drinker. As an empty nester during happy hours. I mean like really, I was really shooting high hair. I was like, wow. And I don't think I realized how good I could feel physically, mentally, the clarity. I mean, I was just kind of walking around with a foggy brain from either drinking, recovering from drinking, thinking about drinking, managing my thoughts about drinking. It was taking up a tremendous amount of bandwidth for me. And to get that back, I gained like hours and hours each week to do something else. So the productivity, the sleep, oh my gosh. I talk a lot about the 3am Wake up call, which is a part of drinking. Whether that's sometimes one drink even can really disturb a restorative night's sleep. But you have two or three in there or more. And I mean good luck with restfulness, which makes you wake up tired, exhausted, you still over perform to make up for it and then what feels good, five o'. Clock. So it's a vicious cycle. So I just feel so much more. Not only present spiritually, I feel integrated, I feel aligned, I feel wholehearted instead of divided. You know, I talk so much about how miserable it was really living a double minded life as a believer. I just felt divided. Like one person by day, another person by night. Like my personal integrity and the way I even trusted myself. Like my own relationship, even with me has gotten better. Because now I know when I make a promise to myself, chances are I'm going to follow through. So I don't make a lot of promises that I can't follow through on. But I used to promise myself a lot of mornings I won't drink tonight. And I did. And that was devastating. Internally again, on the outside, looking good on the inside, crushed with the pain of that.

Wow.

And the enemy loves to mess with you too. Like when he, you know, he loves people to get to that state where we're not keeping our promises and then that shame enters in.

Yes.

And God wants us to have freedom. You know, God doesn't want us to Go around half hearted like you said, or double minded. He wants us to, to have the freedom in Christ, you know, Gosh, he gave his son to die for for us.

That's right.

I hope, you know, people watching and listening to this that you feel empowered by this because that's what I, you know, everything that Jen shares, it's empowering and because we don't need to be a slave to anything, but especially not alcohol, you know, and so I think that everything you share is so practical. You know, one thing that stuck out to me as a woman, you shared something, a stat on breast cancer and how alcohol. Was it 10% or something? Or maybe more?

Yeah. What was that stat? It's actually a little bit more. It increases a woman's potential of getting breast cancer by 15%.

Yeah, I was like, that's pretty substantial and all.

There's just so many health. Really they've come out now. I say they, I think it's the American Heart association, really just the medical community and said actually we retract that there's any amount of alcohol that's actually beneficial. Right now they're saying at all. I mean, just know when you're drinking alcohol, you are drinking. I hate to be the bearer of bad news out there, but you're drinking a toxic carcinogen, you're drinking that. And again, you know, is one glass here and there gonna kill you? No, it's not. In and of itself, it's not. But I think there's a lot of things we put in our body that we don't question. And alcohol is one of those things that's so socially acceptable, so pushed the stats. I could just blow your mind on how much is spent on alcohol advertising in our society. It's four times the amount of other industries.

I didn't realize that.

And if you watch the super bowl or anything around sports on television, they. I mean, it's just the disparity is really large because. And that's how a lot of restaurants make their money. I mean, it's just, it's a huge industry and the marketers know that the messaging, especially towards women specifically, has really changed in the last 15 to 20 years.

It's crazy to think about it.

I know this is like so eye opening. One of the things on kind of a different note that stood out about your post that I find helpful is you talk about date nights, date night ideas, sober date night ideas. Because I think for a lot of our listeners and sometimes myself included, I think like, finally we're gonna have A date night. It's not gonna feel like a date night if we can't have a few drinks. That's just what we do. And reframing that to be able to say, no, we can have a ball out on a date night without that. And so how have your date nights changed? And I love some of the posts where you're sharing some pictures and ideas and all that, but just love to hear your thoughts about how that aspect of life has looked different.

Yeah, great question. And I know that's one of the things that we're really here to talk about is how alcohol affects our marriage and the way we connect. And one thing I will say is my husband, Craig and I, I'm Jen, he's Craig. We're like Jenny Craig. One thing that we did is in my late 30s, he's a couple of years younger than me. So in our 30s, we actually took a break from drinking as a couple for a whole year. We were like, you know, let's do it. Let's just reel it in. Let's, you know, rock the beach bod. Let's wear. I'm going to wear a bikini by the time I'm 40 again, you know, and all the things. And so we did. We took a year off together, and our date nights were not centered around alcohol. And we were kind of on the same page. Fast forward, 40 hits. Daughter turns 13. We've taken the year off. I've gone back to moderating. I've kind of just. We've all just kind of gone back to drinking before. And so when I was ready to really look at my relationship with alcohol, he was not in the same place. He was not in the same place in his own relationship with drinking. And really, this was going to have to be a personal journey for me. So if I had been waiting for him to change or him to get back on the train, the let's take a break from drinking train, I would still be drinking today because my husband does drink. And so me, AKA Sobersis, still am not immune to navigating a partner or spouse who drinks, whether that's one or the other. And so it did change our date nights. And at first, I'll be really honest, it was really uncomfortable because I changed the pattern. I changed the MO of the way we related. And I didn't want him to feel judged for his drinking, just like I didn't want to feel shame or judged for my not drinking. Exactly, yeah, sure, it was a lot of navigating. And what I discovered in that first year was how important communication was. Because, you see, I had really postured myself even around him, to try to minimize my struggle with drinking because I didn't want him to know how internal it was. Because that was again, a reminder of what felt like a failure to me. Shame, the hangover. I could hide that like nobody's business because I was doing all the right things. I'm going to my yoga, I'm juicing my kale. You know, I've got my green juice in tow. Meanwhile, I feel terrible. But there was a lot of hiding for me. Hiding how I was really feeling. Because he couldn't directly relate. It felt even worse. So it really helped to talk to him about. And it took months, honestly, to open up and say, I don't think you realize how hard this was for me. And so what we started doing was changing our activities so that it wasn't so alcohol centric, like going where it's all about the drinks instead maybe going where it's more about the food or the music or the environment and just trying to find other things to do. But it was a challenge at first. I really want people to hear that, you know, it just took communication, really did.

It's usually the solution. At least where the solution starts in any part of marriage is communication with a lot of grace and patience and honesty and vulnerability and saying, this is where I'm coming from and hearing each other. And so I think that's so good.

And also, you know, being willing to switch it up because, and I like how, I mean, in your marriage, you know, you've stopped drinking for seven years now, but your husband will have drinks. And you guys are okay with that because, you know, it's clearly not like a problem for him. He's a social drinker, I'm assuming. And you're not making him feel bad for that. And he's supporting you in being sober. So I feel like, you know, I think, I hope that couples listening really hear that, that it can look like that, like it can, you know, it doesn't mean you both have to absolutely give it up.

And it's really been cool too, because We've been married 27 years. We met in college, we at tech. I know. So young. And so it's really helped to know good boundaries too, and healthy boundaries. There are times where it makes sense for me to ask for what I need. I'm a big John Townsend fan and red people fuel and really learning as adult people how to ask for what we need and not assume that our spouse Knows that not have expectations on them that they can't even meet if they don't even know. So a lot of times, if it's an anniversary weekend, Valentine's Day, dinner, whatever, where intimacy is the goal, I really want to be on the same page and I really want to be sober minded together. Because if he's even slightly altered and I'm not, it kind of creates this different vibe, if you will. You use the word Bible. I love the word vibe.

Yes.

But it kind of creates a different vibe. And so I'm like, you know what, it's a couple's weekend. Would you consider for me key words here? Would you consider for me? Not I want you to, for you, because I think you need to change. Would you consider for me setting aside your choice to drink this weekend so that we can even connect at a deeper level? It's more connecting to me when you're sober minded from an intimacy standpoint. But if we're at a family reunion or around a bunch of people, it's not an intimacy time with my husband, so he can drink what he wants. I'm there connecting with everybody else. And he's been so great to honor that. So that's been really. I count that a blessing and I'm grateful for that.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, that's a great insight.

Well, but advocating for yourself is what I say.

Absolutely. And letting him know that it's not that the drink itself bothers me, but that I want more for us. Because this is the way I feel about intimacy and alcohol and connection and all of it is. I find alcohol in and of itself to be actually a disconnector. We look at it as a connector. Like, hey, let's get together for drinks, or girlfriend had something bad happen, let's go get drinks. It seems in our society like a connector. But I kind of want to argue with that a little bit and challenge that that it's actually a disconnector. Because if you think about it, drinking is actually kind of a self altering act. Like you're getting further and further away from your own presence, who you are, and that definitely gets you further away from other people. So when people meet for drinks or to connect, I think it's just a bid for connection. Like, let's get together for drinks, put whatever you want in your glass. But maybe it's the connection people are looking for. But then the drinking becomes kind of almost like the guest of honor of the connection time. And then it kind of hijacks it. And then before you Know it. You're two or three drinks in and you're less present, which is less connecting.

Absolutely.

It's so true.

It is so true.

There's just like truth bombs all over the place.

I know, I know. I want to make sure we talk about you getting ready to do your 21 day reset. Am I saying that correctly?

Yes.

Can you tell people about that?

Yeah. Cause a lot of people right now, they're like, okay, this is great. I'm in to do something different.

Gotta do something, something.

And Jen has great, great resources, including, even before we jump into the reset, you got a book coming out in a few months.

Yes, I do.

And so, like, like, tell us about. Is that available for pre order yet?

Yes, Good question. At the time that we're recording this, I'm not sure, but follow me on Instagram and that's where you can really keep up with me. It should be launched by March or April, so I bet it'll be pre ordered before then. It's called look alive, sis.

Look alive.

Because it's like, look alive in your own life, you know, like, you've got one shot in your own life. Look alive. Get in the arena. I'm a big Brene Brown fan, so I'm like, get in the arena. Dare greatly. But you got to be alive to do it.

So good.

Be present. And then the 21 day reset.

Yes, yes, yes. And so at the beginning of the month, I start exactly that. It's 21 days, y'. All. And I keep it at 21 days because you can really begin to break or change a habit in 21 days. You can't necessarily create a new lifestyle in that amount of time, but it's the perfect launch spot to begin to change that relationship with alcohol and just be able to kind of pull off the drinking highway, if you will. I always have this analogy of like popping the hood on a car if the warning lights have come on. You probably want to look under the hood and see why did the dashboard light up? What's going on? And if you kind of go into it with that curiosity and that mindset of what is happening in here, not judgment, not shame, not rules, not labels, but more like, hey, this is a real opportunity. And of course, we all know dry January.

Yes.

It's like the sober mind Super Bowl.

Yeah.

It's like game changer.

It's socially acceptable.

Right, Exactly.

You try to pull that in December and your friends are like, what's wrong?

Exactly. In January, a lot of people, for a lot of reasons that's why I like this hashtag that's floating around out there sober for the health of it. There's a lot of reasons why people want to change their relationship with alcohol. And it's not always negative. Sometimes it's really positive. And it's for health, it's for mind.

It'S for wanting more. Just wanting more.

Yeah, exactly. And so that's really what I invite women to do every month with me is take this challenge. And it's not about perfection, it's about progress. And so if someone slips up, we look at it as valuable feedback. It's a great way to learn what you want and what you don't want. We don't see it as a setback. So it's not about counting days. Starting back at day one. Sure.

Yeah.

You know, I always say, if you're running a marathon and you fall down on mile 17, well, what are you.

Going to do, you know, Go back to the start line.

Yeah, you're not going to go back to the start line. Nobody's there. Like, our race is moving forward. So you just get back up, dust yourself off and go, wow, I learned something and I'm getting more resilient and I'm going forward. And that's the vibe of our group.

Well, how do the ladies jump in on that?

Yeah. Well, if you go to sobersist.com 21day challenge, you'll be able to sign up. And if you are hearing this right now, I believe this is going to air on January 2nd. You can still sign up. Yes, I know it's the day after the first and Dave and Ashley are starting this awesome 14 day series. But we wanted to get this in right now so that you can take advantage to join us for dry January. And check it out.

Awesome. And like Ashley said, follow the sober sis on Instagram. We love it. It's one of our. You're one of our favorite accounts to follow. We get so many great insights from Jen and just thank you for the great work you're doing. You're helping so many people just live to their full potential and make healthier choices and we just appreciate all you're doing. So, friends, thank you for listening. Jen, thank you for being here and for the important work you're doing and we're just cheering you on and look forward to hopefully having you back soon.

Awesome. Thank you all so much.