Confronting Your Spouse's Sexual Past

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Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we're in a series right now where we're kind of focusing on the sex part, which, you know, is Ashley's favorite thing to talk about. It's all she ever wants to talk about now. I really just like hearing talking about it. I just love hearing her talk about it. We're in a series of conversations based on our upcoming book, the Counterfeit Climax, which is all about the false messages that our world has given us as as it relates to sex and how God's plan is something so much better. And we're diving into a whole series of topics related to that. So I'm excited about today's conversation. It's a really important topic. It's nuanced. It's one that on some level, I think every couple has to wrestle with. But before we dive in, sweetie, why don't you share a recent review?

Yes. And thank you guys so much for sending in so many reviews lately. I'm telling you, the more reviews we have, the more people know about this podcast. So thank you for taking the time to do that. If you love it, please leave a review today. All right, today's is from Alexandria S15. It's entitled not Just for Marriage. And this person gave us five stars. Thank you. She says, this podcast is so amazing. I am not married. However, I love this podcast. It is so insightful regarding how marriage and intimacy is designed. It also provides biblical reference to support my spiritual walk. Well, thank you so much for saying that. And I love hearing that someone is listening or watching the Naked Marriage podcast even before they are married because you are ahead of the game. So I commend you, Alexandria, on that. And thank you so much for leaving that review. Well, for today's episode, guys, we're going to talk all about how we deal with our spouse's sexual past. Let's dive in.

I'm so excited about today's podcast. Episode is really an important one. It's one that can be a little tricky to navigate sometimes, but an important conversation to have. It's again based on the content from our upcoming book, the Counterfeit Climax, which you guys can pre order now. I think this is maybe the most important resource that we've ever written for a lot of reasons. I think it's going to really help couples to navigate and talk through some of the baggage and some of the issues that on some level every couple has as it relates specifically to sex and intimacy. And we just hope that today's conversation, along with all the conversations the book will spark, are really going to help in that area. Before we dive too deep in, I want to give a quick shout out to our studio audience. Today we got a media class from the King's University. We've got some guys that are going to go out there and just change the world through media and we're honored to have them here today. And the King's University is a great partner here at ExoMarriage. It's a wonderful school based here in South Lake, Texas, that also has a lot of great online programs that you can take part in from any part of the world. And so if you feel led in any capacity to maybe continue your education for ministry training or even for some of the other programs that they offer, check out Tku. Edu really, really is a great school. We've had Dr. Cassie Reid on a few times to talk about counseling, and she's one of the counseling professors there. And we've got Dr. John Chastain, their president, that has spoken at our events and a lot of great connections with tku. So honored to have these guys here in the studio and check out their school as well. So today's topic, based on a lot of messages that we've received over the years and it seems like maybe even an uptick lately on how do I confront and deal with my spouse's sexual past. And this can be a lot of different things. For some people. It's, you know, my spouse had all these sexual experiences before marriage and I'm having a really hard time dealing with that and I'm having insecurity and jealousy because of that, or maybe looking at them in a different way because of their past. Or maybe I'm the one that had a lot of experiences and my spouse did not. And I feel guilt and shame about that. Or maybe the way that they were raised, the mindsets that they had about sex, even if they didn't have actual experiences, just their mindsets are creating a lot of baggage. There's a lot involved Here. So I'm going to stop rambling and give my beautiful, brilliant bride a chance to start this conversation.

Yeah, I mean, this is an important topic. And I think, you know, one thing, like all those things that you just mentioned are a dynamic that many people are in, but I think another one is really, for lack of a better word, the sexual habits that people bring into marriage, you know, specifically, maybe if they, you know, have been accustomed to watching pornography or, you know, masturbation is a big part of their life. And. And, you know, we need to talk about how that affects our marriage. And I know some of you listening are like, whoa, Ashley, you're gonna take it there. But, I mean, I'm just being honest. In this book, the Counterfeit Climax, you guys, we go there. Like, we go there.

It is very specific.

It's very specific. But, you guys, we have to have a safe place to talk about these things. And I think as Christians, a lot of times we don't know how to talk about these things because we feel like they're these dirty things that we can't address. But the truth is, you know, God created sex. It is awesome. It is meant for marriage. It is meant to be pleasurable. Yes. It is also meant to produce children. It is. It is a beautiful way for a husband and wife to connect on a much deeper level. And so in order to have the kind of sex lives that God wants us to have, you know, within the context of marriage, we do need to get real about our sexual past. And so I think what you start with is just being willing to have the conversation. You know, for those of you who are engaged, watching this, or maybe seriously dating, we actually talk. And I'm not just trying to say this as an advertisement, but it is a great conversation piece for those in that dynamic. We actually have a course called Preparing for I do. And one of the things we talk about in there is how do you have, you know, here you're trying, you know, most likely trying to abstain from sex, but you do have to talk about it before you get married. You can't all of a sudden start having these conversations about expectations and your background and all that kind of stuff right after you get married, you know, because it's just a lot to unpack. But so we do talk about that if you're in that dynamic. But, you know, especially in marriage, and especially if you feel like when it comes to sex, there is this, you know, wall between the two of you, you need to go to your spouse and say, listen, I love you so much. And I want our sex life to be everything that it can be. But there is this barrier, and I don't know exactly what it is. And I'll be honest with you guys. You all have heard our testimony. If you've been listening to this podcast any length of time or gone to one of our exo marriage conferences. But this is actually part of our story. Like, early in our marriage, I knew, you know, I love Dave. I felt like our sex life was great, but I felt like there was this barrier and I had a lot of my own hangups from just how I was raised and being extremely inexperienced and just feeling like I didn't know what I was doing, just to be honest. But then I remember with Dave, I felt like there's something. There's just. There's something there. I didn't know what it was, and I never brought it up to him until I found pornography on our computer in our old dingy basement. And if you've listened before, you've heard this story, so I'm not gonna belabor the point. And we go into great detail about this in our book, but it was like in that moment, my eyes were open to what Dave was actually dealing with. And I called him, as hard as it was. Because I think a lot of times when we find that our spouse is doing something that isn't good and also that it, you know, is hurting us, something like pornography, we don't wanna address it. I think a lot of us, we're like, no, no, no, no. I don't want you to close your ears. Just act like you didn't see it, act like you didn't hear it, whatever it is, and we just wann again. Avoidance never solves anything. And so after some time, I can't even remember how long, and some prayer, kind of my mind reeling and processing my feelings, I did call Dave, and he immediately was honest about it. And I feel like in our marriage, that was one of those breakthrough moments for us. I mean, did you feel that as well?

Yeah, it was a painful moment because I knew the pain that I had caused, and I knew it was gonna be a hard road ahead. But I was also so relieved that it was finally out. And up until that point, I'd not had the courage to bring it. But any form of secrecy in your marriage, especially in anything, any secrecy around the very intimate topic of sex, it creates such a barrier and such a wedge. And as part of the past, porn had been. And we're gonna talk about a lot more than Porn on this episode. But it had been something that had sabotaged my mind long before Ashley entered into the picture. Like, I'd had kind of an on again, off again bad habit of falling into porn as a teenager and young adult that I broke free from for a while, and I thought I was free from it. And then when we got married, early in the marriage, I fell back into it. Not, of course, because of anything at all Ashley was doing or not doing, but just because I'd never really dealt with this sin the way that God calls us to deal with sin, to get accountability and bring it out in the open. I was dealing with it the devil's way, which is to try to be in isolation and not tell anybody and not confess it and not get accountability. And so I was setting myself up to fall back into it. But part of how porn had kind of sabotaged me is it warped my mind about, like, what sex is even supposed to look like. So I was basing, in some ways, even though logically, I knew that God's plan for intimacy and sexual fulfillment and connection in marriage was something totally different. I had put these images in my brain that had trained me to believe that this is what sex and marriage. Sex and marriage is supposed to look like and be. And it's completely unrealistic. It's completely unnatural. It's a terrible standard to use for what real connection is supposed to be. And I had to kind of detox my mind from thinking that's what. That's what sex is. If I'm going to be a good husband, if I'm going to make sure that our sex life is all it can be, and our marriage as a whole is all it can be. We've got to get past that. And so that's why we talk. One of the many reasons why we talk so much about porn. It leads you down a darker and darker path. And not to belabor the point, because, my gosh, we could camp out on this. I even got a phone call just last week from a guy. I don't even think he's a Christian, but he knows what we do. And he said, hey, listen, I'm 40 years old. Like, all my life I've been into porn, and I never really thought there was anything wrong with it. He said, but it's to the point where it is controlling and consuming my life. Your schedule, even my schedule. Like, I'm pushing away my wife. I'm canceling appointments and other things because I'm so into it. And he said, and now it's elevated to the point where it's not just porn. I'm actually interacting with people online. I think he's probably into sites like OnlyFans, which is, you know, we won't even go down the rabbit hole of kind of what all is happening. But porn never stays in a little box. Like, sexual sin always continues to leak out like a cancerous tumor that just breaks free and spreads. And so we have to contain that. But this confronting the sexual past is about so much more than just porn. I mean, we want to get as specific as we can, which, of course, we do in the Counterfeit Climax book about all these issues. But on this topic in particular, confronting my spouse's sexual past, and to give, like, a very specific instance of that, one of the recent messages we've got was from a wife who. She had had multiple partners in her past. Her husband had not. She kind of recommitted her life to Christ and was embracing the grace and the new creation that we become in him. And when her and her husband got together, they waited for marriage, and they were good. And she knew that that part of her past and seemed okay with it. But now, after marriage, several years into marriage, it's like those images are kind of haunting the husband's mind. She feels like she's forgiven and has moved on from it. But he'll confront her, and he'll want all these details about every encounter that she had. He'll, you know, really has kind of obsessed about it, and it makes him feel insecure. It makes her feel insecure where he, you know, he, without even probably meaning to, is treating her kind of in a disrespectful way because of these choices she's made in her past. And it's breaking not only their sex life, but really their whole marriage over this one issue. And so, sweetie, for somebody in that kind of dynamic, how do they navigate. How do you navigate this?

It's hard because I think that they need to obviously talk very openly about this. And, you know, you guys have heard us talk about this before if you've listened for any length of time. But I feel like you need to be willing to answer questions. But I would also ask him this. I would encourage the wife to say this. Listen, I'm willing to answer any questions that you have, but I really want you to think about this. Will the details of my past sexual experiences help you? Would they help you in this situation?

Or is it just gonna put images.

In your mind, add to the fire? Right, Exactly. It's just Gonna fuel the fire of the anger and the hurt and frustration and inadequacy that he feels. And I think that if he really thought about it, the answer would be no. I mean, what is that gonna do? Because, you know, we are. We're people who, when we think about especially sexual images, they tend to stick. And him imagining his wife with these other men and doing these other things, I feel like it's gonna. It's just gonna add. Add to the problem. And I'm not saying just completely act like it's not there. They need to talk through this, but I don't know if specific details are going to help. But on the other side of that, I, I think the wife needs to be willing to answer because anytime we're like holding back something, then his imagination runs wild and he's like, well, what else aren't you telling me? I mean, that's really what happens, is we start doubting everything. And so we just need to get gut level, honest and be willing to talk about these things. And she needs to really go out of her way to reassure him and to say, I chose you. I chose you. And even before you came along, I repented from this because I didn't want that kind of life anymore. I wanna be a new creation in Christ and he's made me that new creation. And that's the girl you fell in love with. That's the girl you chose to marry. And so us hashing up all this old stuff, you know, I am willing to answer your questions, but it really, it makes me feel inadequate too. So here we are, two people who love each other, who want to have the kind of sex life God wants us to have, but we're just. We're just building on more inadequacy. And so why can't we talk about what we can each do to help the other feel safe and loved and cherished in every way and really let that be the center of the conversation. And she needs to ask him, like, is there something I've been doing to make you feel like I don't desire you or you're not fulfilling me, or is there something I can do to help fulfill your sexual needs more and really start there and focus more on their relationship instead of focusing so much on the past. But at the same time, I mean, I think we have to own what happened. We have to be honest. But I think that we can't just stay there. You know, we're having this podcast episode today because it is a real. It's a reality that many of us deal with. And in fact, I would venture to say all of us have some form of baggage. Even if you've never had sex, you. You may have baggage in the form of what you've been taught about sex. Maybe you grew up in purity culture, maybe, maybe no one ever even talked about it with you and it's just this unknown, scary thing to you. Whatever the case may be, we need to deal with what we, what we are coming from when it comes to marriage and when it comes to sex and kind of the, the ideas we have about sex in our mind. But we don't just need to stay in the past. God always wants us to be moving forward. We need to heal from our past. But then we need to do, you know, to take the steps necessary to move forward.

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The first is mental clutter. The second is physical clutter. One requires meditating, the other requires Stanley Steamer. Start with what you can control, then go outside. It's cheaper than a spa. No appointment required. Book your deep clean now@stanleysteamer.com Wow. I think those last few minutes that Ashley just shared are some of the most profound and clear teachings I've ever heard anybody share about kind of how specifically to navigate that. I mean, just brilliant, my love. So, yeah, that really is what it comes down to. I mean, you have to respect each other, you have to be honest with each other, but recognize that you're both that new creation in Christ, and when we lose sight of that, really, we're not only disrespecting our spouse, but we're actually limiting God. We're saying that the miraculous work that the Holy Spirit's done to redeem us and to make us whole and make us new and to forgive us and cleanse us. We're saying that his work didn't work on us or didn't work on our spouse. And that is a really prideful and toxic mindset. The enemy would like Nothing more than for you to fixate on these sins of the past and to think that you're defined by them or that your spouse is defined by them. And he doesn't want you to focus on the grace. He doesn't want you to focus on the beautiful intimacy that God wants you to have right now. He wants to discourage and distract you. And almost any time in your life, discouragement or distraction comes into your life in a real way to create that tension or that wedge in your marriage. I mean, that's from the enemy. Because what Jesus wants for your marriage is unity. And what he wants for your marriage is freedom and joy and the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, all the way down the list. And if we're losing sight of that, then I think we need to take a step back and look in the mirror and say, where is this coming from in me, this insecurity in me? Like I'm opening myself up to things, you know, that are. That are not from God, because my God wants me to cherish my spouse. You know, my God wants me to adore, you know, adore my spouse and to love them. You know, there's a great story in the Bible about a guy who had to confront his wife's sexual past, and then her sexual past even bubbled up and became part of the sexual present. And the story of the prophet Hosea, who married a woman named Gomer, which is just a really unfortunate name, let.

Me just say, in parts of the world, it might still be a popular name. If so, God bless you.

I'm not making fun, because maybe there.

Are parts of the world in our American culture, it might seem weird.

Yeah, it's not in the top baby names for girls in America, but, you know, in other cultures, maybe it is. And if so, I'm sure that, you.

Know, hey, more power to you.

More power to you.

Biblical names are awesome.

Biblical names are awesome. But. So Hosea Ngomer had an interesting story. She had been a prostitute, which is a lot of sexual baggage to bring into a marriage. Right. If you've been a sex worker, that's a lot. That's a lot to bring in. And Hosea was a prophet. He's a guy in the ministry. So essentially this is a pastor marrying a prostitute. And it sounds like a Lifetime movie right out of the gate, but this is God's word. And so God called him to marry her specifically. And he did in part because God was trying to show a picture of how he, the Lord, like, pursuing his Bride, his people, his church at the time, the nation of Israel, and how they had turned their back on him and essentially prostituted themselves spiritually, seeking after other gods. And how it broke the heart of God, you know, as this faithful husband. And how he still pursued his bride even when she's broken. It's a picture now of how Jesus, the perfect bridegroom, continues to pursue his church, his bride. Even though we can be so unfaithful to him, you know, we can be not only in our past before him, but even now in our present, you know, we can still break that vow and not live up to what he's called us to. And yet he still pursues us and offers us his grace. So how much more so in marriage are we called. And the story of Jose and Gomer, it's actually a beautiful redemptive story. She goes, falls back into her old way of life after they're married. After they're married. And he, having every right to just divorce her and move on, pursues her with love, finds her, like, redeems her, brings her home, rescues her, and they continue to live in this redemptive way where he didn't hold it over her head. I mean, he offered such grace. And it's a picture of what God wants to do to us. And it's a picture of what in marriage, the kind of grace we're called to offer to each other. And I'm not saying. And the Bible's not saying that your spouse should have, like, an open door to go have affairs and to just kind of not have any accountability. Because sexual betrayal within marriage can be grounds, biblical grounds, for divorce. But I feel like we need to look at each other through the eyes of grace. Especially. Especially when it comes to those things that happened before marriage. I mean, especially in those. I mean, that was before the vows were even made. And, yeah, God has high standards for sex because when we step outside the bounds sexually, everybody involved gets hurt. We end up getting hurt. You know, the people we were involved with get hurt. Our future spouse gets hurt. Like, there is only pain when we disregard the guardrails that God put protecting us sexually. And so it is a real issue. And this husband who is struggling with it, you know, I get it. Like, I get why that would be really, really difficult, you know, for a husband or a wife to wrestle through. But we've got to cling so much to the grace, and we have to cling so much to the new creation that God has made possible. And don't let the past sabotage Your present or your future.

That's right. And ways we can practically do that is we don't hold it over their head.

Yeah, absolutely.

If we do have a question of, like, are you having fantasies about these previous people? Because maybe something has changed in your intimate moments, I would say, instead of saying, you know what, it seems like you're just thinking about your ex girlfriend or your ex wife or whatever it is. Instead of saying that, say, listen, I feel like there's a barrier between us. Where's your mind going? You know, when we make love, where is your mind? And not in, like an accusatory way, but just in a. I'm curious because I feel like you're dealing with something, and when you approach it that way, it's concern, it's not accusations. And so we really have to just be very mindful. Even though we ourselves might be hurt and confused and feeling all these feelings. If we step back and just take a beat and pray and say, lord, you know, help me to talk to my spouse about this, we're just gonna get a lot farther. Because people tend to shut down when fingers are pointed at them. And you may have every right to point a finger, but approaching them in that manner is not gonna get you anywhere. So really, just calm down and have the honest conversation with them from a point of concern and what you'll find, just like in our situation with the pornography, I literally called Dave when I found that after, like I told you after I took some time, and my first thing I said to him was, hey, sweetie, do you have something to tell me? And I think, because God gave me the ability to just have some restraint to be calm and talk to you, you opened up to me. Now, if I'd called you and been like, you dirty piece of trash, I can't believe you're looking at this, you would have been like, click.

You know, I don't know what you.

Would have done, but you definitely would have not had the words that you shared with me so well.

And your grace, and it's not my grace.

It was God's grace.

It was God's grace. You being open to responding things in grace was a real difference maker in the healing process. And you're the hero in that story. And I'm so thankful for the way that you responded. And I feel like it's a big reason why we were able to move through that as quickly as we did. I think that process could have been a lot longer.

And let's just say, too, the process length is different for everyone.

It is. It's different for everybody.

And with these kind of things. I'm so glad you brought this up. We have to be mindful to not put stipulations on things and really let God do his work in his time, because his timing is perfect and it's usually not our timing. And just be patient with each other when you are dealing. Like when that person is dealing with maybe their sexual past and maybe they're going to therapy because, you know, maybe, maybe the sexual past is abuse. I mean, and we have whole episodes about this. Those scars are deep. They are so deep. And it's gonna take your, your spouse some time to get through that. You know, we've actually, um, go back and listen to this episode. We interviewed a couple who went through this. And, you know, for some, some spouses, when they hear that their spouse has been sexually abused, obviously their heart breaks. But it sometimes does cause some insecurity in that spouse. Not necessarily from the point of, like, oh, how experienced are they with this abuser? It's really from the point of, oh, no, when I do this, are they feeling like I'm abusing them? Like, you know, it's that inadequacy of, like, I don't want them to ever see me in that way.

Yeah, I want our marriage bed to be the safest place on earth.

Exactly.

Not a triggering place. That brings me back to whatever that horrific incident might have been. And so in marriage, we have to be in every way, but especially with sex, which is so intimate and so vulnerable. We just have to be the safest place on earth for each other.

It takes time.

It takes time. And again, guys, we go into so much more detail about all these things in the Counterfeit Climax book. I encourage you to go ahead and pre order that. I think it's going to be a resource to really help you. And that leads us into today's question. It's Q and A time. Thank you, guys for those who submit questions, and we appreciate it. So here's today's question. And we don't read these ahead of time, by the way. So this is kind of off the cuff. I'll be getting married within the next year. My future husband had a previous struggle with pornography, but has since overcome it. We both are looking forward to having sex for the first time, but I fear that I will be focused on the fact that he has watched all of this before, or if he has knowledge about aspects of sex that I don't. I fear that I will have hard feelings about him knowing about These things. I genuinely want to have an amazing sex life, but I fear that I won't be able to get his porn struggle out of my head. So how do I try to resolve these hard feelings before having sex for the first time? All right, thank you so much for your question. And you guys are actually ahead of where we were because at the time that we were engaged, this had been kind of an on again, off again struggle for me. And I made the huge mistake of not confessing that to Ashley because I didn't want, you know, in my mind, like, I was thinking, like, oh, I don't want to put those thoughts or images in her head. But really, I was selfishly and cowardly being a coward by not confessing something that would make potentially her look at me in a different light. And so having not started the conversation then created more opportunity to fall back into it later. So the fact that he is talking about this, that is a strong step, a wise step on his part. And even though the facts and details of it might initially and even now put those images in your head of like, oh, no, I'm going to have to deal with it, or is he going to be thinking about that? But the fact that he's openly sharing right now says to me, one, that he doesn't want any secrets between you, that he wants your sex life together and your marriage as a whole to be built on trust and for there to be nothing between you. And three, that he's actually come to a place where he's experienced a lot of healing because he's already talking so openly about it. And so all those things being said, you're off to a good start. But I do understand why you could have those. Those feelings of like, oh, my gosh, he's got these reels playing in his head. Am I gonna be compared to these airbrushed people on a screen that are doing all these things? And sweetie, what are some of your thoughts as a wife?

Really? My first thought is, and I totally. Again, we've walked this road somewhat, but again, you are way ahead of us, which I commend you on, and that's awesome. I think you should tell him exactly what you said to us. I think you need to say I'm looking forward to sexual. But, you know, I'm so glad you were honest with me about your pornography issue, but I just have. I have a little bit of anxiety feeling like you're gonna be thinking about those girls and let him reassure you. And again, we wanna talk more about being the new Creation in Christ. And, you know, just really focus on that. But you need to talk to him about that and say, you know, I'm also. I'm a little concerned that you've seen all these sexual things, and I don't even know about any of that, and I don't know what your expectations are. And so talk about your expectations and. And just say, like, I love you. You know, I wanna navigate this together, and I don't wanna have fear or anxiety going into our marriage. And so I think talking about it is where you start. And if you have any questions, ask him, but be willing to have that kind of conversation. And, you know, we always say intimacy doesn't start in the bedroom. It starts through conversations. And I think now, in this time of engagement is a great time to talk about this just so honestly. And. And you might have to come back to it again once you're married. And, you know, it's always. It takes time to really understand each other in your preferences. And, you know, it's a journey together, figuring out what sex looks like for the two of you. And so you might. You might have some insecurities there. But be willing to talk to him. Don't make assumptions. I think it's understandable that you feel the way you do, and I think he'll see that too. But I think when you talk to him, if you're not talking to him about it, you're not giving him the opportunity to tell you what really is on his mind.

So give him that opportunity and keep communicating. You know, have these conversations now and keep having them after marriage, you know, about what's on your mind, what you're struggling or wanting to know what's on his mind and to open up and then with sex itself, just even during the act of lovemaking, communicate, you know, talk about, like, what feels good or what doesn't feel good, and just be really honest with each other. And it's a process of learning. It's a fun learning process, but it's a process where you guys are going to learn and grow together. So we're praying for you and cheering you on as you guys continue. We've got some great resources specifically to help couples prepare for marriage@premarriage.com including the pre Marriage podcast and our Preparing for I Do course, which might be a really helpful resource for you, you two to work through together as well. So, guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. Wherever you're listening or watching, we're so glad that you do. If this episode encouraged you in any way. Share it with somebody. Send a text link. Send a text link. Somebody or whatever the kids are doing nowadays to share stuff, just send it out there, post it online on social media, help other people discover these important conversations. And we just so appreciate you guys. We'll see you next time.