Does "The One" Exist?

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Hey, welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast where we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and we have a special guest today, such.

A special guest, my buddy, Scott Kadersha. One of my first friends in Dallas. Scott is the real deal. He's a pastor at Watermark Church where he works in their marriage ministry. He has personally helped over 5,000 couples at that church. He's been married for 18 years, father of four boys. So his life kind of like paraphrases, parallels are one of just the. The most down to earth and yet wise and practical voices there are as it relates to marriage. And he's the author of a new book, Ready or Not K N O T. Not that we're going to be talking about. And we're going to be having a great conversation today, specifically as it relates to engaged couples, newlywed couples, and what it really takes to prepare ahead of time for a successful marriage. But this is also going to be so practical for those couples who maybe been married a long time, but they're dealing with struggles that could have been prevented by different preparation. And there's hope for them. And we're going together about how there's hope for them. I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. Thanks for being here today, Scott. Let's dive right in and talk specifically to that person listening right now who might not be married yet. And what are those things? Because, I mean, I'm telling you what you do on the front end. So many marriage problems could be solved by the right preparation beforehand.

Oh, yeah.

And we see that every day. You know, couples, if you really do a lot of prep work on the front end, it can prevent so much miscommunication, communication and pain later on down the marriage. And so, Scott, expert guru to the newlyweds and engaged. So what do you do? I'm a single person and I'm thinking, I wanna get married. What do I need to be doing right now to prepare for that?

Yeah, great question. So I think part of the problem is so many couples are just afraid of getting married. You know, we've not done them a good. We've just done them a disservice, is probably the best way to say it, of just scaring them off from what marriage really is. You know, I think for years, all they've heard is like, marriage is hard and you're all gonna die and you're not ready for it, and you're too selfish, and you can't have.

You can't handle the truth. Yeah.

You can't handle being in the club. And so people have run. That's why couples are choosing to live together. They're choosing not to get married. They're choosing just to postpone it. Like, let me do everything fun in life, suck all the fun out of life and go to Europe, get the car I want, get all the pets I want. And then maybe when there's nothing else left to do, then I'm gonna get married.

Yeah.

And I think we just need to change the message we give that marriage is actually really, really amazing.

That's so true. You know, I mean, he has just hit the nail on the head there, because there is, like, this negative bend towards marriage, and it. I do think a lot of it is rooted in fear because of maybe what they experience growing up. You know, Dave always says, you know, we want to give our kids the view of marriage, that it's a good thing, like, that they want to be married one day. But the truth is, so many kids grow up in homes where marriage was just a fight, marriage was manipulation. Marriage was just hurting, you know, one another all the time. And so here they are, they're grown, and they're thinking, I don't know if I want that. How do you think we can change that?

Yeah, part of it is, I think you're right. When I started doing ministry with married couples and pre married couples years ago, it was like we had this message. We had to convince them marriage is hard and you're not ready, and they know it. Things have changed where we don't have to convince anyone because he grew up in that home where mom and dad aren't married. Maybe they're friends. Maybe they've been previously married and they know now we need to convince them. This thing's really amazing. It is hard at times. Parenting is hard at times. Marriage is hard. But it's absolutely worth it if you're willing to put the work in and do the hard work before you get married.

Yeah, I think that we did an engaged couples class in our church a while back, and I was expecting. I was expecting a class full of 20 year old virgins who, you know, just were bright eyed and ready to get married. And what we had was, I don't think there was one couple in that dynamic. We just opened it up to engaged couples and we had couples who were living together with kids already. We had couples, many that it was a second or a third marriage. A lot of couples that were coming to this class because they'd had a marriage that had failed or because they tried to make it work without marriage and there was just kind of brokenness in their relationship. But what I was seeing over and over again is these folks, they want to be married, they want to be married in a healthy way. But they, they've never seen up close in person a healthy example of it. And so they're coming to this class almost like a last resort of like, show us we don't know. It's not that we're anti marriage though some people are in our culture for sure. But it was more just like we've been broken and beat up and scared because life has kind of beat us up, relationships have beat us up, we've done it the wrong way. What do you say to those folks who maybe they're not this young person that's just thinking, I want to move in and I want to avoid marriage. And we know there are a lot of those folks, but somebody that's like, well, I do want to get married, but I've done it wrong up to this point. And my life doesn't look like, you know, the traditional path of leading into marriage in a traditional way. But I want to get it right now. So where do I start right now if I already have a lot of baggage?

Yeah, it's such a good question. I mean, the reality is there is that that perfect couple does not exist after this sinless couple who's never sinned before, never struggles. If that's you and you're like scared or you're concerned or you have questions, I want to let you know first and foremost you are not alone. You are like every single couple I've met in my entire life, right? Like, think about most couples getting married now. Are they growing up in this like pornified over sexualized culture where expectations are off? And I know you guys have talked about pornography before, many times, and they just come in with a wrong view on marriage and a wrong view on their bodies and their significant other bodies and terrified of what lies ahead. And I want to let you know first and foremost, you're not alone. You are just like everyone Else who has concerns coming into me. Yeah.

I mean, knowing you're not alone is half the battle, you know, because the enemy, that's what he wants to do, is make us feel isolated and then keep us from doing the very thing that God is leading us to do. But we're, you know, caught up in fear. So, you know, a lot of times we get, you know, people at marriage who follow marriage today. A lot of times they are not married yet, but they want to be. And their biggest question is often, how do I know, you know, he's the one or she's the one? And imagine quotation marks around that one. Right?

The one. Cause there was no one. This fairy tale idea, you know, we get all these messed up ideas from fairytales of what love's supposed to look like. You know, Sleeping Beauty, he's gonna come kiss. Listen. Sleeping Beauty's about a guy making out with a woman who's in a coma, which is illegal and creepy.

I would not base your life.

Come out. We have all these weird ideas about what love's supposed to be. But what a great question, sweetie. How do you know if. Does the One exist? And if they do, how do you know if this is the right person? And you can answer this kind of in the context of your own story? Cause I love your story of how you and your wife met. You were hot for Teacher, like the song. I. Yeah, so. Which is just epic, you know? So tell us a little bit about that. But then in that unpack this million dollar question. How do you know when you found the right person? And then the next part of that, once you've found the right person, how do you know if you are actually ready to get married? And we're not just rushing into this thing? So it's the right person and the right timing and the convergence of where those two things intersect.

Yeah. So like, out of the 7 billion people on the face of the earth, what if I picked the wrong one? That's a lot of pressure coming in.

Right, right.

And so that idea of the soul is such a myth. Right. It's a little bit of my story. Because you asked, you know, so Kristen was my teacher when I was in grad school. I was hot for teacher and she was not so hot for student. It took her a couple years.

Well, to take the creepy factor out. I said you weren't like, in middle school. And she was 30. Right. You were like the same age.

Totally different.

But it still sounds really, really cool.

Scandalous and cool. Right. She is a little Bit older, three years older. I was in grad school. She was a physical therapist. Cougar.

Oh, yeah, right.

Coming after me. It was the exact opposite. Like, I was really hot for her. Took a long time for her to.

Get with it, convince her.

And part of it, just candidly, I was not ready. She wasn't ready. We dated the first time around. I finally convinced her, hey, I think you should date me. And so we kind of dated. And we were so immature. We were like. It was the first Christian relationship we've ever had and crossed boundaries physically, crossed boundaries emotionally. When she wasn't nice to me, I would literally go in the chapel where we worked. We were in a big hospital and I would cry every day. It was like the most. No, don't owe me. It was like the most pathetic human being ever on the face of the earth. I was. And she was mean to me and she wasn't ready. And she is like, she is the kindest human being I've ever met. But back then, we just weren't mature spiritually. We were two immature, brand new followers of Christ trying to figure this thing out. And so the timing just wasn't right. And so we dated, broke up, and when we broke up, we really got serious about our relationship with Christ. And I never thought we would date again. I kind of, you know, Taylor SWIFT PREDECESSOR we will never, ever, ever, ever get back together. Yeah. And something where we both became these attractive followers of Christ and she actually asked me out on a date. And things were radically different the second time around. So the most important thing, if you're looking for someone to marry, the most important qualification is just where are they spiritually? What's their relationship with Christ like?

Man, that's huge. And that's the part that's missing, I think, in so many. We want to look at just compatibility or attraction. He likes pizza. I like pizza. We're both into the same whatever. And if Jesus isn't at the center of it, none of those other things will ever be enough.

It's so true. And you know, as I'm hearing Scott tell us, it reminds me of this myth that so many, even Christians, believe this, that their spouse is going to complete them. That when they meet the one, it's like their piece that is missing. And this seems romantic. And this was perpetuated by the movie Jerry Maguire a long time ago. Like, you complete me. I cry too.

I cry every time.

You had me at hello.

I get it. Yeah, you had me at hello. And you know, and that's another Myth too. Like, you don't have to say other words. That's a whole other thing. You're mine forever, and I get you without words. That's just ridiculous. But the whole you complete me thing, that is a myth. Only God completes us. Like, we can't look at a person and expect them to make us whole. And I think when we go immaturely, so many of us do this. Like, and I mean, Dave and I, we've been there too. When we just don't have the maturity to know that we're gonna be disappointed because people are going. I mean, you know, they're not perfect, they're not God. And so they're gonna disappoint us. They're gonna let us down, and we're gonna be on an emotional rollercoaster because we're looking to this person to fill a void that only God can fill. And so if you're listening right now and you're in that dynamic, like Scott and his wife in the early years of their dating relationship, first and foremost, again, you're not alone. But maybe think about, you know, where am I spiritually? What is my relationship with the Lord? And I do think that, you know, once we reach that level of spiritual maturity, to know, like, this person, I can expect this person, even though I love them so much and I wanna spend the rest of my life with them, I can't expect them to meet my every need and to fill a void that I have in my heart. Only God can fill that void. And I think once we understand that, we have the maturity to move forward together.

What I love about it, a quick thought from Jimmy Evans, who has taught us so much about and this idea of the soulmate myth and something he says is you make your soulmate in the trenches of life. And he unpacks that by talking about how really it's not this just initial spark where, oh, my goodness, we're bonded forever because you said hello the right way. But it's locking arms. You know, it's going through those trenches of life and love and commitment and the days you don't. Choosing to love each other on the days that you don't feel like liking each other. And it binds your hearts together in that commitment. Because love is really a commitment the way that God describes it. And Scott, I love what you're saying in terms of not just looking for the one, but really trying to become the one. The one God created you to be, become the person that God made you to be, which requires pursuing Jesus Christ as your Lord. And savior and making him the center and allowing him to really bring your heart to where you need to be. Otherwise, even if you found that perfect person, you're just going to wound each other.

Yeah, yeah. And the other piece I think that really helps along with that is not just where are you spiritually, but what do those who are close to you say about your relationship? So, man, I see this trend all the time where this, like, guy loves Jesus and a girl loves Jesus, and they're super plugged into our church. Great friendships with guys and girls, and then they meet each other and they actually. There's a term for it, they call it submarining, where they start dating one another and they kind of go under the surface. They disappear from life and nobody knows how they're doing anymore. And there's no way to, like anyone can speak into the relationship to help them realize if they're ready for marriage. And so one of the things that we consistently talk about, my wife and I, and the ministry I help lead, is making sure you got people who are speaking to your relationship. And. And so if you're trying to find the one, you're not going to find the one. But make sure the people who are around you, the many around you, would confirm this is a good choice for you. That was part of our problem. When we dated the first time. Our communities were actually the ones who suggested that we break up. And then six months later, eight months later, those same people were the ones who said, hey, we see a radical change in you. We think you actually should consider getting back together. And so I'm glad they did that with Kristen. That's what led her to ask me out, and the rest is history. And so that role of community is tremendous as we process this humongous decision we've got to make.

Well, that's biblical. It is with many advisors. You know, you don't want to if you've got the wrong advisors. People that love drama don't love Jesus. The advice might not be good, but if these are people that love you, love God, have healthy relationships in their own life, listen to those voices. People that care about you because they want good things for you, and they're going to be able to see some blind spots. Maybe you don't see.

Yeah, because, I mean, if you have the people closest to you in your life telling you like, this person brings out the absolute worst in you, and I'm seeing a terrible downhill spiral in both of your lives, I mean, that's a big red flag.

Yes.

You know, I definitely think you should listen. But I think so many times we tell ourselves, this is my life. They don't know this person. Like, I know them. Like, we've heard this from so many dating couples who are just convinced they just know him the way I know him.

Like, I know him.

I know you don't know her. You don't see the good side. And we're like, oh, but he's in prison.

We can't really meet him. I know, but when I go and.

Visit him in prison, oh, my goodness. No. But honestly, it is truly a good gauge to know. Like, okay, maybe I really should take a step back from this. Because I do think when we're so involved, we have major blind spots that we can't see, that it's nice to have people in our lives that can really speak in and see those and listen, be willing to listen to that.

Those blind spots just kind of exacerbated. The older that we get, you know, the biological clock is ticking away. Or I've got these fears. What if I'm single forever? And then we begin to compromise. In fact, I think the biggest mistake I see with women who, you know, the older they get, the more they compromise.

Yes.

Yes. I think one of the most important things we can do is just remind people this is not like taking a job, buying a car, even buying a house, what college you go to. This is the aside from what God you're gonna choose to follow with your life. And we would always want to point you towards Jesus apart from that, that eternity changing decision. This is the most important human decision, relationship decision you're ever gonna make. So don't compromise. And that goes not just for ladies, but for guys as well.

Yeah, yeah. No, I've seen that compromise so many times. And it can be men or women, but I've seen a lot of women, like you say, where they. They start feeling this certain age of desperation of like, I can't be picky anymore. And they compromise on the worst parts of it. Like, well, he's not really a Christian. He doesn't love Jesus like I do. But these other things seem okay. And so I'm gonna make this decision, and it never. It just never, ever ends well. You know, I've had so many conversations with women who've made that decision, and then either that marriage ended altogether or it just created a whole lot of friction that God was trying to save them from having to go through. And they said, if only I would have followed God's principles and not compromised on that But I was so afraid of being lonely that I was willing to have a lot of blind spots.

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Yeah, that is the million dollar question, right? And unfortunately there's not like this. I don't know any married couple who would ever say was 100% confident this is the right. And so there's a couple of things that are rule breakers, deal breakers. If one is a Christian, the other is not. I can't tell you who you should marry. I could tell you you shouldn't marry. So if you're a follower of Jesus, do not marry somebody who's not a believer. And that's where the role of just where are they spiritually? What does your community say? What are they speaking into you? Do you have fun together? I think that's so underrated in relationships.

That's huge. Like, do you laugh together? Cause laughter even in the hardest moments, you know, Dave and I have been married almost 18 years. Dave, he just knows how to bring out the best in me and make me laugh. And I remember when we were dating, I just thought, I'm gonna be laughing my whole life with this guy. And I love that. Like, I mean, he's such a goof and he's hilarious and he shows me his butt crack daily. Like we talk about this. He does, he tries to find ways.

I try to do it daily. It's some days I miss.

But no, it's like in the most.

Random time what's gonna happen is I'm gonna get arrested by the die because it's ridiculous. I do it in semi public.

That's what I'm saying. So it's, like, racy.

Or I kind of just lower the pants just to show a little man cleavage. And then I pull the shirt up and, like, I've been down.

I'll be like, oh, I need to pick that up.

Pick that up.

It's ridiculous, but I love it.

But my plumber look, she laughs every time I laugh every time.

Like, it's so funny. No, but I just. I love that because, you know, in marriage. And I think this is another way to know. Like Scott said. I mean, there's no, like, magic formula, but I think you can know that you're ready when you realize that it's not going to be perfect. You know, I think we just need to know it's not gonna be perfect. As much as you love this person, as compatible as you are, you're gonna have issues. You're gonna have moments where you literally are like, I am crazy right now. This person's driving me nuts. But if you can just find the good and focus on the good and know how to laugh and know how to kind of take the pressure off. I think so many times we just live in this pressure, especially when we are going through something hard. But when you know how to relieve that pressure, bring out the best in each other, that's huge.

Well, I was watching this show. We watch a lot of shows together, like old shows that took place in England for some reason, I don't know.

Why, with the British.

I don't know why, and I don't.

Know why I like old shows.

But before I get too deep down on a Downton Abbey tangent, there was this one of these shows, and this woman was getting married. This is the tie in. And she was asking her dad, who in the show was like a preacher dad, what's your advice? Am I marrying the right person? And this guy she was marrying was a good guy. And he said, I know that you're ready, and I know that you guys are good together. And he said something that was so simple but so profound. He said, because the two of you find joy together in the simple things. Oh, yeah. And I thought, there's something to be said for that. You know, that, like, the two people that love God, love each other, that can find joy in the simple things, you know, it doesn't just have to be these huge, big adventures, even though hope, that's a part of your marriage, too. But even when you're broke, even when you know things are hard, you can laugh. You can find joy in the simple things. And going on a walk and watching a show together and whatever the simple things are to find joy. I think that that is a sign of such health in a relationship and such a good partner.

Yeah. So often couples will put, on the pre made side, put one that, you know, they're sexually active with each other, which we would say is not God's best. It's sin. That's something God designed for marriage. And couples put so much stock and weight in that. Oh, yeah, right. That's like, we gotta make sure everything works and we're compatible. Sexually.

Sexually compatible.

Yeah. And I hear that's a great area to trust God. And there's no promise that if you abstain before marriage that things are going to be amazing afterwards. But it just provides an opportunity to trust God. But what we found in that, you know, we actually crunched some numbers about sex. You might like this.

All right, I'm excited.

Okay. See, the average couple has sex, we'll say somewhere between six to eight times a month. And if we give them like, we give them credit for like 45 minutes per session, which is incredibly generous.

45 minutes.

Well, that includes, like.

Are these marathon runners?

What are they?

What kind of supplements to these people too. Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

We'll call it like.

Like cleaning up from dinner and putting the kids to bed and brushing your teeth and all that is part of it. So when that starts to. When you fall asleep next to each other. 45 minutes, you do a little bit of math. So six to eight times a month times 45 minutes, that's actually like 0.635% of married life. You are sexually intimate with one another.

Right.

Which means 99.375. Or I'm not a. I'm not a math guy. I'm a. I'm a pastor guy. And so whatever 0.635 minus 100 is. So it's 99 point something percent of the time. Guess what you're doing. You're not having sex.

Right. So just thinking about sex, which can be like 50% of the time, doesn't count.

Doesn't count.

No, that's such a good point. That's a good point too, because we do. It's an important. We say a lot. It's an important part of your marriage, but it's only one part. It's all our marriage. It's only one part. I mean, less than 1% of your time is gonna be spent in the actual act of lovemaking. And so you gotta keep that in perspective.

So you gotta enjoy all the small things you said you gotta enjoy doing dishes together and hanging out and raising K together and going on walks. All the things that take the 99 + percent of life are the things that you've got to enjoy with one another, not just being sexually compatible.

Right.

That's a great point.

You know, speaking of sex, it's one of those things that needs to be discussed, you know, before you get married. You talk about your perspective of sex. And that's something I know in our premarital classes that we had all those years ago, before we got married, we definitely talked about these things. You talk about expectations and things like that. And Scott, just like you, we want to support the fact that God's best is abstaining from sex until you are married. And then once you're married, have it alive.

Go crazy.

Yeah, go crazy. Just have fun. Enjoy that gift. But, you know, we need to talk about sex. We need to talk about kids. You know, how many kids do you want? Do you want kids at all? Like, I mean, that's something where that can be a huge point of contention if one wants children and one doesn't. I mean, that's a huge.

You're on totally different pages with these things. Oh, yeah. And it blows my mind that people don't talk about these things. And then they get married and all of a sudden, oh, I want one child. I want to be like the Duggar family. I want 20. You know, I want to be millionaires. Like, well, really, I want you home a lot, and so I want you to. I would much rather have a small house and a modest income.

Right. But it's a big difference.

If you're not talking about these things, it's gonna create so much unnecessary friction. And so talk about these things throughout. Cause some of these goals change over time, and you gotta. But if you're not having honest, unfiltered conversations about what you want, what you see, what you dream, and you're doing it together, you're setting yourself both up for a lot. So, Scott, what are those questions that you need to ask each other on the front end?

Yeah. What you just said about kids, the most tragic story I think I can remember in all my years of doing ministry, and this is almost 13 years, is a couple who got married and then never talked about having kids.

Oh, man.

She wanted them, he didn't. And so they ended up getting divorced, and they just never talked about it on the front end. And so all of this comes down to what we talked about in the beginning of being aligned with Christ, because your View of Jesus affects everything in life. It affects the way you spend money and the way you raise kids and the way you view kids or kids, you know, a gift from the Lord. Are they just like a burden that we have to do together? It affects the way you think about your jobs and your friends and the way you think about intimacy and holidays and in laws. And it changes the way that we interact with our parents and our in laws. And so all of it filters down to are we on the same page with one another about the most important things in life? And honestly, there's like no other way around that other than to learn about marriage and then to talk about it together, Talk about your expectations.

Yeah.

And you know, just talking, just having healthy communication in the beginning is setting a firm foundation as well. And praying together. I mean, I think so many times couples learn about this stuff, but don't actually put it into practice until they're married. But the truth is, besides sex, you really should start doing a lot of these things, you know, like communicating well and talking about kids and learning, you know, praying for each other and together. Those are things you need to be doing now in your relationship.

Absolutely.

You know, and you're preparing yourself for a better marriage because of it. But I think sometimes we just put that off.

Scott, here's a question. Are there signs you see in pre married couples that suggest they'll have a successful marriage? Is it the things that Ashley was just talking about that they pray together, that they, that they communicate well together? Are there certain things that it's like, okay, if you're doing these things, if you see these things in your relationship, you're on the right track. And if these things are missing, then that's potentially a red flag.

Yeah, that's a great question. So the way I like to think about it is like a traffic light. Think green, yellow, red. And so if you're aligned on the most important things, it's a green light. Keep moving forward towards marriage. If there's some things that you're like trying to figure out and you're not sure you're aligned, it's a yellow light. Proceed with caution. And sometimes it's really clear that you're not aligned on the most important, important things. And so it's like a red light. Eject. God has spared you from a life of misery together, of course, down the road. Right. And so the things you're, you're looking for are a couple of the things we already talked about of just doing. Where are you spiritually?

Right.

Are you aligned. Because that does affect everything in life. Do you have the same views on, you know, on money and kids and, you know, politics? Like, even that. Right. You know, do we have the same views? And you can work through those, but the biggest thing is just, are you aligned spiritually?

It's so good. You know, some of you listening to this right now are probably already married and you're like, oh, no, we had those red flags. Like, we had people in our lives.

We didn't do any of those things.

Yeah, I mean, some are probably like, yes, my parents told me I shouldn't marry this person. And then I married them. And they were right. Like, it's so hard. Like, I mean, there's people listening where they're like, I'm living in the reality of just a relationship.

But you need to work now that you're married, you need to make it work.

Yeah, I was going to say, but the truth is, you're married now. You gotta work through these things. And so what would you say to couples who are listening and they're feeling that and they feel the weight of that? And right now, you know, they're just reeling from thinking back to all the signs that they probably had those blind spots we talked about, but now they're seeing the reality of that. What do you say to that couple?

Yeah, so again, I'd say you're so not alone. In fact, the majority of couples don't do anything to prepare for marriage. The most common counsel they hear is they'll sit down with a pastor, like, one time before they get married, and the pastor will say, hey, gonna fight at times, but you gotta work through it. Now go get married.

Yeah, okay.

And that's just not helpful. And so if you are a couple who didn't do these things before, you're just like, actually the majority of couples. And so, you know, if that's your story, then your life and your marriage is still absolutely has the opportunity to be redeemed, to be fixed. There's so much hope. You guys provide so many amazing resources for couples.

And so.

Yeah. So just part of it is just. And be humble. You know, God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. And so if you're struggling, just be humble. Being willing to confess and say, we need some help. We want someone to walk alongside of us. Community plays such a huge role in helping us grow in our marriage and our relationship. And so raising your hand is the biggest problem. And saying, hey, we're having issues and we need some help. And so look for Those resources, whether it's from you guys, a local church, a ministry like we do at our church called Reengage. There's so many great opportunities.

Just real quick about reengaged.

Amazing.

We all the time. And I'm not. Yesterday I had a conversation with a friend whose marriage is in Christ, talked about a Re Engage program that he had found. Re Engage, which is a program of Watermark Church where Scott is a pastor.

But it's at local churches around the state.

It's at churches all over now. And I think it is the best in church program to help marriages. So there's probably a church in your area that has reengaged.

We've seen it in action. Like, we've spoken at some different marriage conferences. And there was one in particular in Wisconsin, and they had. It was all these re engaged people and just the stories that came out of this. And it's the community you get from it too, because it's twofold. I mean, you're learning how to literally re engage with one another. And a lot of these people come from, I mean, rough marriage situations. So they re engage with one another, but then they have lifelong friends that also value marriage and love the Lord. And that is just huge. Who you surround yourself with. There's a couple that we love that has just been literally struggling their whole marriage. They had people tell them in the beginning, you shouldn't marry this person. Until this day, they don't really do anything together. They hang with people who also would tell you they're in miserable marriages. And we pray with them, we try to give them hope, but they constantly keep on going to these people. And we were talking about. We're like, you know, we would just love it if they would just get help. If they would just see they don't have to just survive their marriage because they're of the belief, like, they're not gonna get divorced. Like, he resigned himself to just surviving. He's like, it's just my cross to bear. I mean, that's literally how he looks at it. But it's like God wants so much more. He doesn't want us to just literally survive it. Like it's some life sentence. Like we're in prison, a marriage prison. He wants us to thrive. And I love how Scott said, you know, I mean, there is so much hope and there's so much you can do, but we have to be the ones to do the work. And it takes work. Even marriages where you've been happy most of the time, like most of your years are Happy years. It's not because it just happened. It takes work.

Those are such great points. But it leads into one question for the person that's sitting there thinking, well, I would love to go to something like re engage with my spouse. I would love to pray together with my spouse and have community of other friends who share our faith. But my spouse is not a believer. Or maybe they would say they are, but their faith is just not a priority and I can't get them to do any of those kind of faith based activities with me. And what a lonely place that can be. We talk to so many people in that situation. And so Scott, what would you say to that believing spouse who was feeling lonely and feeling kind of helpless? What encouragement could you give to them?

Yeah, yeah, that's such a good question for those couples. And often it feels like it's the woman who's the one who's more engaged than the guy is. And that isn't always the case. But there's a great verse, it's in First Peter, chapter three and it says that we can win our spouse over by our conduct.

Yes.

And so often we think nagging them or dropping a Bible on their bed stand or tell them, here's a book you need to read or just kind of preaching at them all the time is the way to fix the marriage. And I love what that verse says. It says, I'm going to work on myself and I'm not going to nag them. I'm going to do everything I can to win them over to Christ, like Matthew 7:3:5, where I'm not going to focus on the negative in my spouse. I'm going to work on myself. We say at Watermark, we say, draw a circle around yourself and work on everyone inside the circle. That I'm going to work on myself and become the most Christlike person I can. And then, and then pray that God uses me and uses my story and my faith to win my spouse over. And then, you know, again, like reengage would be a great place if they're willing. And then the role of community to help encourage you to keep working, keep staying faithful.

You know, we've seen couples just in years when Dave was a pastor, we've seen this happen. We've literally seen this happen where one spouse is sitting in that pew week after week after week. There's no, you know, their spouse never comes with them. And then all of a sudden, because of their kindness to their spouse, I mean, something as simple as love and kindness, eventually that spouse would Join them and then they would follow Christ. And I mean, that is amazing to watch. And we know it's hard though. I mean, I want to, you know, just level with people who are going through this and recognize it's hard. But keep, keep on praying for them. Keep on like, like Scott said, inviting them in a loving way, but not preaching at them, just loving them and being kind to them, showing them the love of Christ because that's ultimately what draws all of us in, is his love and his grace and mercy towards us. So just keep on hanging on there.

That's such good advice. Now we've so loved our time talking with Scott today. He's just a treasure of resources, a gift to the kingdom and the marriage community and just a great, great guy. And we want you to pick up his book. Ashley and I were honored to get a sneak preview and give a thumbs up for it. Man, it's two thumbs up. This book is a powerful resource. It's called Ready or K N O T. Like Tying the Knot. What a clever title. I love it. But it's not just a clever title. It is power packed, full of practical resources. This is an amazing gift to give to that engaged couple in your life. It's also got so many great. It's a powerful tool for engaged couples. But reading through it, you're also gonna see there is so much good in here, especially for those newlywed couples. I would say for those couples that have been married, they're maybe in the first five years of marriage, they're starting out together, meant so many practical guidelines. So it's going to have a powerful impact for the engaged couple, but it's also going to be really meaningful for the married couple. So I know it comes out February 5th. Scott, what do you want to tell us about the book?

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that. I mean, part of the reason I wrote is I wanted to find a book that was practical, biblical and authentic to help couples get ready for marriage. And there's a lot of great marriage books out there. There's some good pre married books, but I couldn't find that book. And so I wanted the book that was going to point them to God's truth, that it would be biblical and it would be practical, would tell them how to do the things they need to do but don't know how to. And then the authentic side, we just live in such a fake world and culture. And I wanted people to hear from real couples and let them know what's lying ahead of them. And I wanted them to know how great marriage is. And so I'm thrilled with how it came out because the work that the publisher did and great friends have done to make it a good book, and it came out to be that book that I think will help couples find the counsel and encouragement they need to move forward towards marriage. To be ready or not for marriage.

I love it. I love it. So please go out and get that. Wherever books are sold. Available on February 5th. And Scott, thank you so much for being here with us. It was just awesome.

Love you, bro.

Love you guys.