Honest Talk About Anxiety & Depression

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Hey, welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast, where we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And I am so excited about today's episode.

Me too. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and we're going to talk about something very personal to our own story today, and that is anxiety and depression. So let's dive in.

Hey, welcome back. Episode 9 of the Naked Marriage podcast. Nueve.

That's right, man.

Time is flying. And today this is a really important topic. I know we say that every time and it is every time, but this really hits close to home for us because this has been a big part of our story and we're talking about anxiety and depression. And many of you, I would say over the years, thousands of you have written in with issues specific to anxiety and or depression in your marriage or in your own life. And we have such a heart for this because it's not talked about enough and it can be so isolating when you feel like you're facing it.

I went through a four year battle with anxiety and depression early on in our marriage. And I'll even venture to say kind of after coming through that and going through counseling, and we'll talk a lot about that and kind of the process of dealing with it. But I kind of found, looking back that I was really dealing with anxiety at a very young age. You know, it was something that I had been dealing with that I really didn't know. As like a preteen and a teenager, I didn't really know that's what I was dealing with. But when we first got married, that's when it really hit and it hit hard. And it was one of those things where I just, I couldn't put my finger on why I was so sad or why I felt like I was gonna throw up all the time or why I felt so nervous all the time, but I knew that something was wrong. And I really, you know, at the time when I was dealing with this, in the early 2000s, you know, way long time ago when I was dealing with this, it doesn't feel like that long ago. I know, I know. But it kind of was I hear.

Songs from back then, and I think, man, this was just on the radio. But I. I guess I'm just getting old. I'm sorry.

I think we are getting old, sweetie. But it's okay. I'm.

You look as beautiful as ever. You're glowing.

You look even better. I mean, you've always looked so nice.

I think your eyes are going a little bit, though. I think that's part of it.

My eyes are. They probably are, but you still look good.

I'm just blurrier, so you don't see the wrinkles. Sorry to interrupt, though.

No, no, no. So in the early 2000s, when I was dealing with this, there was a commercial about an antidepressant, and it had this little man. He was like. He didn't even look. It was like a little figurine guy, and he was walking around a little town, and. And there was this dark rain cloud following him wherever he went. And I remember watching that commercial and being like, that's so cheesy. But when I realized how I was feeling, I thought, that is probably the best demonstration of how I feel. I feel like there's this constant dark rain cloud over me, and I can't get it to leave me. And it's like everything, no matter what circumstance I'm in, it's just has this shadow of this rain cloud over it. And there'd be many nights where I would feel just total turmoil, and I'd be praying, and I'd be tossing and turning in bed and feeling like I was gonna get physically ill. And some nights I would get physically ill, and I'd have to run to the bathroom, and I would be sick. And, you know, there were many moments where I would wake up, Dave, and I'd say, sweetie, I just can't sleep. I'm so sorry to wake you up, but can you please pray with me? Can you please, you know, just give me a word of encouragement, Tell me some scripture, you know, anything. You just get to the point where you're desperate and you're like, I just need to know that this isn't gonna be how I feel forever. I need to know that I'm gonna get even just through this night. I mean, sometimes it's hourly that you're just trying to deal with the anxiety and the depression. And, you know, thankfully, Dave, every time, every single time, would say, I'm gonna pray with you. I'm here for you. And when I would say, lies, you know, that I was believing to him, I had these lies going through my mind. Where I would say things like, I know you're gonna leave me because I'm not the woman you married, and it's okay. Like, I would almost give him my blessing and Because I was having so many lies from the enemy. Cause this really is a spiritual battle.

Absolutely.

But I would have these lies that I would believe that I'm not worth being married to, that I failed somehow as a Christian woman. And even kind of in my eyes at that time, I'd feel like, oh, I just fell into anxiety and depression because I wasn't believing and having enough faith. And it's all these lies that many of us who are going through anxiety and depression, whether men and women, because this is not, you know, this is something anybody can experience. You know, we can as Christians especially. I feel like Satan loves to have a heyday and make us feel like we did something wrong. To be feeling anxiety and. Or depression.

Yeah. And shame is his game.

Oh, goodness.

Like, he. God doesn't do shame. I mean, God will do conviction sometimes, you know, the Holy Spirit, when we're in a habitual sin of some kind. Conviction is God's way of saying, hey, get your hand off that hot stove. It's burning you. It's hot. And I want to. I want to point that out so that you'll turn back to me in repentance and find healing and wholeness. Shame is this ongoing guilt and this dirty feeling, this unworthy feeling that does not come from God. God wants you to be free. He wants you to be made whole. He is a God of grace. Jesus came to pay the price for all your sins. So don't beat yourself up for something. Jesus literally took a beating to take away from you. He took the beating on the cross to take away our sins. And so when you beat yourself up for something, it's. It's almost an insult to him in saying, what you did wasn't enough to cover what I'm facing. So embrace his grace. So with that being said, don't listen to those lies of shame from the enemy that say, you know, you deserve this. You're unworthy. You don't measure up. But at the same time, let those feelings, when you feel completely helpless, turn you to God for His strength to say, lord, I need you now more than ever. I need your presence, your peace, your strength. I need to be reminded of who I am in you. I need your promises. And just open up God's word and remind yourself of who you are in Him. His promises for you that his love will never leave you. That he'll never leave you or forsake you, that he has a plan and purpose for you, that nothing can separate you from the love of God that's in Christ Jesus our Lord. There's so many promises in scripture that you can hold onto.

That's right.

And that's something that really got us through that season. Me as a husband trying to support my wife when I felt so ill equipped to know how to help. But I finally just realized I don't have to have the right words. I just need to show her my love through my presence, through my consistency and my encouragement, my reminding her that I love you. I'm not going anywhere. We're going to get through this together. And I don't really remember anything profound I said during that whole period, but I remember saying, I want her to know through my presence, through my tenderness, that I love her and I'm not going anywhere and we're going to get through this together. And then little by little, the more that kind of God's word renewed her mind. And counseling was a part of this journey. Christian counseling was a huge part of this journey. Some books helped. She read the book the Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyer, which helped her a lot. She read, I think, the Search for Significance.

Search for Significance, which was amazing. By McGee.

Right. So there were some books that were instrumental that pointed back to the truth of scripture. Of course, God's Word is the ultimate book there. And it was a journey. It's about being patient. It's about realizing, you know what, God sometimes will deliver us from something all at once. But most of the time, the his deliverance process is a journey. And it's a long season. And in that season, he's teaching us dependence on himself, and he's teaching us patience. He's teaching us lots of things. And so don't be discouraged when you feel like you're in a long season. And man, is God punishing me? Has he forgotten me? He knows right where you are. He sees right where you are. And he is going to. He's going to get you through this. And if you're a spouse of someone who's going through that depression, you know, just encourage them, be there for them, hold them. It isn't about having all the right words nearly as much as it's about just holding them and reminding them of your love. And then help them get the help they need through counseling. Be proactive, be an advocate for them to get whatever help that they need and just be willing to take that journey with them.

It's so true, sweetie. A big thing I think that made all the difference with me is Dave never once, you know, pointed the finger at me and made me feel guilty for having these thoughts or having these feelings and of despair or doubt or whatever it was. Because I do think doubt's a big part of it. You know, I think we have these doubts. I mean one of the kind of big doubts that always went through my mind was, you know, like again, I guess, you know, I'm not believing enough. I guess I have doubts about God or doubts about my faith. But it was also this, you know, I doubted that I would actually have healing from this. And there was constantly this thought kind of crossing my mind, like, well, this is you now. You're not gonna get through this. You're just gonna kind of have to go half hearted through life and deal with this. And I really would feel that every day and the thought of that would literally just completely crush me because I thought I don't wanna live like this. I don't wanna live feeling like I'm half of myself and like I can't ever be happy again. I can't ever have joy again. Because it was just such a struggle to really feel whole. And I will tell you that God used that. God used that insecurity in me to show him how that he is the one who fills me. He is the one who makes me whole. And so I don't wish away those years of dealing with that. In fact, I'm thankful for those. I don't wanna go through them again because it was horrible, right?

It was hard.

And those of you listening to this, you totally know, like those of you who are experiencing anxiety and depression or that's part of your story, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You know, I just wanna encourage the person who's currently in this, who currently is dealing with anxiety and depression. Just look to the Lord. I mean, he is the one who will give you strength. He will give you courage to get through each day. And I wanna say this too, and this is a very important thing that I want to get across here is don't dismiss going to the doctor as well. I think so many times as Christians we can attach a stigma to things that can help us like antidepressants or anti anxiety medications because you know, those can be gifts as well. I'm not saying that that will fix all your problems, but it will help with serotonin.

Don't put anything out that could help because that was part of Something that helped you.

Absolutely.

That was part. We talked about, you know, books and prayer and all these things, which was a huge part of it. But we also thanked God for the medicine that existed. That was part of helping you out of that. And it wasn't a permanent solution, but it gave you that lift that you needed.

It did.

To take those steps to find some light at the end of the tunnel.

Right. And it does. Like, you know, as far as the brain is concerned, when you are, are depressed or even anxious, you know, your serotonin levels are very low. And those are the things that make us feel good. You know, the part in our brain that kind of makes us feel good. And so when you're constantly having these thoughts that are breaking you down inside and making you feel just worse and worse, your serotonin levels are very low and your brain just tends to go back to that negative cycle. But when you take, you know, an antidepressant or anti anxiety medication, it's going to help your serotonin levels to raise enough to where you can kind of break out of that mental cycle. Because that's really kind of what it is. You know, when we have these thoughts, different thoughts that we go to over and over and over again, they literally make a ridge in our brain. And it's like the path that our brain automatically wants to take. And when you have these depressive thoughts and these anxious thoughts, it is very hard to break out of those. And one way to kind of help you moving in the right direction. And I'm not saying this is for everyone, but for some people, getting on an antidepressant for maybe in the short term might be just the ticket. I know for me, and I'll just be. I'm just gonna be completely honest with you guys, is they put me on Zoloft for a couple months and it really helped my brain, you know, just kind of snap out of this negative cycle. Cause when it was really bad, that's when I needed it. I needed just a little boost. And for some people, they might need to be on it longer. And there's no shame in that, guys. I just want you guys to know there is no shame in that. I feel like modern medicine is a gift from God. I do think we need to approach it carefully as well. And I will tell you, that is not the only thing that's going to help you. You can't just take medicine and expect everything to be okay. That is not the way to approach it. But I do think medicine can help. I think once you're taking the medicine, the only way that you're actually going to receive full healing is to go to the Word. And especially when it comes to those negative thoughts, those lies that are going through your mind, you have to take those thoughts captive and then replace it with God's truth. And this is not just my opinion. This is in the Word. We have to take our thoughts captive and replace it with God's truth. And I would do this, like, in every way possible. I read this book by Beth Moore called Praying God's Word. And that really helped me because it's topical. So whatever kind of thing, thought process you're struggling with, you can kind of go through the different topics she has listed there and find specific prayers based on those topics. And I really love this because in her book she encourages people to write down these prayers and to write down these verses. And she says, post them in your home where you know you're gonna see em, like in your bathroom. Post them in your car, you know, at night, have them by your bedside table, and then say them out loud. When you're by yourself, say them out loud. And I love this because this isn't just Beth Moore's opinion. This is scriptural. I mean, this is something that Jesus himself did when he was tempted in the desert. And I just think if Jesus himself is going to say these things out loud and say God's Word out loud when he's tempted and go right at the enemy with that, then why shouldn't we do that? And so I would do that. I mean, I wouldn't stand in the grocery store line and say it was somebody lined up behind me because I'd appear like a crazy person. But I would've helped them, you know, say that first out loud. It might have helped me. I'm not saying there's any shame in that. I'm just saying they might be scared. But, you know, go ahead and say it out loud when you're in your car. There were times where I would start feeling down or feeling anxious and I would pump up worship music and I would say certain verses out loud. I mean, one of my favorite verses is Proverbs 3, 5, 6, and that is trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. And in all your ways, acknowledge him and he will direct your paths. And I had to constantly kind of wash my mind with that verse. And it helped me so tremendously.

Man, those scriptures are huge. And to give Ashley a plug, a resource she created after this, she put together a devotional called 31 Verses in Prayers for the Anxious Mind and Heart, which is available on Amazon. And it has a collection of those verses that helped her most, the prayers that helped her most. And it's just a great resource for those who are struggling. Another resource I'll highlight is I read a book recently by Max Lucado called Anxious for Nothing, which just had some powerful insight about these things. One thought that stood out in that book, there were actually a lot that did. But he said, we're the air traffic controller of the thoughts in our mind. We don't get to control which ones shoot overhead, but we get to control which ones land. And if they land, we can send them off again if they're ones that aren't helpful. And that's building on a thought that Martin Luther said centuries ago when he said, you can't keep birds from flying over your head, but you can control them building a nest in your hair. He was saying, you're going to have crazy thoughts shoot through your head all the time that you can't control, but you get to control which ones really make a nest and a home in your brain. And you need to evict some negative thoughts today. And sometimes it's an ongoing eviction process. You'll evict it, it'll come back a minute later, you have to evict it again and stand on those promises from God's word. So we're going to jump into a few specific issues to kind of keep the conversation going, especially specific to Mary.

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So, sweetie, what would your thoughts be for that spouse that you feel like, maybe they're in this alone. You know, you feel like you're dealing with anxiety or depression, and you're not facing it as a team, but the other spouse is. They just don't seem to care. Or whether it's reality or not reality, you feel like you're in this situation alone, and you don't have the support system that you need. What do you say to encourage that person?

I would say this is where counseling is just extremely vital. And I would say you can find counselors near you through your church. The local church is a great place to start, but I would encourage you to go to a counselor that you know is specialized in this, and they need to be a biblically based counselor. Because kind of the risk you take when you go to just a counselor who's not Christian based is you may get some advice that really isn't sound, because you need to go to someone who has your same worldview, your same values, and, you know, I'll just be honest with y'. All. If God's not part of that equation, you're not gonna receive the full healing that you so desire. God's got to be in the equation because he is our healer. And so that's why it's so important to see a Christian counselor. I would also tell you there's some great support groups that are all around the United States, groups like Celebrate Recovery that have specific groups that are catered towards. I mean, they have all kinds of different things they help with. But I know that there are specific groups for depression and anxiety where you can talk to other people who are also going through this. So you know that you're not alone. I think one of the biggest lies that Satan kind of tells people who are anxious and depressed is that they're the only ones who have those crazy thoughts, or the only ones he wants to isolate.

That's his game. He wants to. He wants to remove you from the pack. That's what predators do, you know, and don't let him. Don't believe those lies.

It's so true. And, you know, and I think he tries to tell us, too, like, you're damaged goods. Nobody, you know, if you told anybody about this, then it would ruin your life. You know, I think that those are the lies that we kind of believe, but that is just not the truth. The only way we can fully heal from anything, whether it's anxiety and depression or anything else, is we've got to come out with it, with the truth. We've got to come out. We need to tell our spouse, you know, God already knows what's going on, but we also need to bring it to the Lord, obviously, so that he can, you know, heal our hearts. And it's also good to find trusted friends that, you know, love God, love you, and especially as it's related to your marriage, that they are pro marriage, they love your spouse, and they are for your marriage. But, you know, you need to know that they are for you and that they have God as part of the equation as well. And when you go to these Christian groups, these Christian support groups like Celebrate Recovery, you will find people like that, and you're gonna find people that are gonna be honest about what they're going through. And just knowing that you're not alone, that you're not the only person who's dealing with this. That in and of itself can bring you a lot of peace.

Yeah, no, just sharing struggles. The Bible says, carry each other's burdens, and this way you'll fulfill the law of Christ. So much of God's plan for healing in any aspect of life directly involves community. And even for those that feel like you're not getting that support, that community within your marriage and within the body of Christ, which is the church, find that community, find that healing. Find a support group, a small group. You'll be amazed at what health and healing it can bring to have people who are in the battle with you praying for you, encouraging you, texting you throughout the day, just saying, hey, let's grab some coffee. You're on my mind. We're going to get through this together. Kind of turning gears just a little bit. When that person's depression or anxiety, when you feel like it's really impacting your home because you have the stress of raising kids, and then you feel like, well, I'm failing as a parent because I'm just wanting to shut myself off completely. And just the tension, the very real. You can't just go off on an island by yourself for years and figure this out, because you've still got to be in the real world, taking kids to school and being a mom, being a dad. So how do you just practically functionally get through what you're going through and at the same time be the mom and dad that you need to be? Because that's huge. Our kids do need us, and they can't. We can't put that part of our lives on hold.

Absolutely. And this is something. When I was going through my anxiety and depression, you know, we had our first child, Cooper, and I remember those Feelings. I felt so guilty as a mom because I didn't really have those gushy feelings immediately for Cooper as a baby. And I know the difference. Cause I had those, you know, that with my other children. But it was because I was in the midst of this anxiety and depression. It really, like I said, it just puts shade over everything. And it's like you're just kind of in this dark cloud, and it's raining all the time, and it's dreary all the time. And so you're not feeling like yourself. And so I would just say you kind of have to rise above your feelings and do the best you can. It doesn't mean you're denying how you feel, because that's very real. And that's why we need to talk about that with our spouse. We need to pray about that. We need to see a counselor about that. But I think sometimes we need to go through the motions and do those things that we know are going to bless our family. And. And what you'll find is your emotions kind of tend to catch up. And I didn't know this until I remember my first counselor that I saw. She told me this, and she was like, it's like a train. Like you're kind of taking. Leading the train by doing those things that you know are good and that you know you should be doing. And then eventually your feelings catch up. And she said, it's just kind of how it works sometimes. And so take your kid to the ball game, wake up and make them breakfast. You know, try to rise above those feelings the best you can. And you're not gonna feel like it at the time, but. But I promise you, you'll be so glad that you did, and your feelings will catch up. And there were moments where I know I wanted to stay in bed. I mean, definitely. And I'm not saying you shouldn't have some mornings where you do. Sometimes you just need a little extra sleep. You just need that little extra time. And I would encourage the spouse without anxiety and depression to allow for that sometimes. But I would also say encourage your spouse to get out and say, you know what? Let's do this. You're gonna feel so much better and do those things as a family. Cause, you know, guys, we don't wanna look back on our lives and think, I missed out on so much.

You know, you can't trust your feelings lately in the season. God never meant our feelings to be a guiding factor in our life. He wants us to follow our faith, our principles, our commitments, and your Feelings usually catch up, like Ashley said. So like Ashley was saying, force yourself to get out there and have fun. Do things even if you're not feeling it, even if. But do things that you know would be fun for the rest of the family and just kind of force yourself to be present and to be engaged. And it might exhaust you, but you gotta stick with it.

It's so true. And I wanna say one more thing, and this is something that I heard. I can't remember who told me if it was a counselor or a book I read. But one thing, when you are dealing with something, especially when it comes to anxiety and depression, we can become so hyper focused on the negative thoughts that we have and how we're feeling that we tend to think a lot about ourselves. It's just the natural way of things when we're dealing with something and when we're struggling with something. But I just wanna encourage you, try to find people in your life that need to be blessed by you, that need an encouraging word from you, and bless those people because it really gets you out of yourself and thinking about, oh, woe is me. I'm dealing with all this. And I'm not trying to discount how you're feeling. Please don't misunderstand me here. But when we can kind of bring ourselves out of that enough to go encourage someone else who is struggling, it is so amazing what God does with that. And it really makes us more thankful for what we have in our life, even in the midst of our struggle.

It is. It's God's plan that serving when we serve, we give what we need. When you need encouragement, sometimes the best way is to give encouragement to someone else. And you'll be amazed at how it comes back to you. I guess one other factor that it's hard for us to get through a podcast without talking about sex just because it's naked marriage, one of our favorite topics and one of my favorite activities as well. But sometimes depression and anxiety can really, really be detrimental to your sex life. And I'll even share personally, like, the one time in my life that I've ever really faced anxiety of any kind, it had to do in this area. Like, I had a hormonal imbalance, I have a thyroid condition, and that thyroid condition led to, among other things, a lack of energy. And it directly impacted my testosterone levels. And so I was living with this low T for a long time. My testosterone levels got so low, I'm like, am I even technically a man at this point? I mean, I.

Well, I think you're so young to have low, and that kind of messed with you mentally.

So I'm feeling, oh, man, it was like the ultimate midlife crisis that I've got no energy, no testosterone. And it created this anxiety around sex. It created this anxiety that I was not gonna be able to perform, or this anxiety that I wasn't gonna be able to really enjoy making love the way that I had. It was tied to a medical thing. And a lot of times our anxiety, depression, there is a hormonal element of it oftentimes that can be addressed.

Yes, absolutely.

But just to own the fact that anxiety and depression can directly impact your sex life. And you've got to be proactive about that. You've got to be proactive. And for me, the proactive was like, look, I'm going to try to get this figured out. I'm going to get my thyroid medications right. I'm going to take supplements to balance out my hormone levels, whatever I need to do. Ashley's smiling right now. You've got this nervous grin. Like, what's he going to say? What's he going to say?

No, I'm just saying, guys, we like to be gut level, honest on here. I mean, we're not, like, we're just going to tell you like it is. And I was just thinking, I mean, I'm smiling because Dave's in, he's doing so much better. And it's because he did take action. But I do remember distinctly, I mean, this is very personal. But there'd be moments where he was like, gosh, I'm just feeling anxious. And I could just see it all over his face.

Yeah, I would have literal performance anxiety, which I never in my life dreamed that I would ever. It's the kind of thing I would, like, joke about. Like, yeah, I'd be nervous about it, having sex, but I really would be because I thought, what if my body doesn't respond? And it was a powerless feeling. It really was just this powerless, humbling feeling. And Ashley was just so encouraging through that and so affirming through that.

I think that's what we need when we're anxious. You know, I remember being like. And I know, I mean, mine's a little different with my anxiety and depression, but it certainly affected our sex life back then, too. I mean, with how I was feeling. But I just knew, I thought, you know, he just needs to know that I believe in him. And I just wanna tell you, if your spouse is going through anxiety and depression, they need to know that you believe in them and that you're not gonna give up on them and that you can kind of encourage them. You can do this. Like you have this in you. This is not your forever, okay?

It's not. This isn't forever.

This is not forever. You're gonna get through this. This is a struggle that you're not going through alone. Because God is with us and we're gonna get through this together. And I just wanna tell you, every time you say that you are building up your spouse. And some of you, your spouse may have been dealing with anxiety and depression for years and years. And that can be very demoralizing. And you can feel like, listen, I've given them all this encouragement in the world. I've been praying all these prayers. I've been doing everything I can to show them that I'm not leaving, that I'm encouraging them. And they still kind of don't wanna get out of bed. I just wanna encourage you, keep on doing what you're doing. You know, anxiety and depression is one of those things where everybody heals at a different rate. And there's some things that work for one person that may not necessarily work as effectively for the next person or. And I just wanna encourage you to keep on fighting for your spouse and with your spouse to get through this anxiety and depression and keep on encouraging them and not blaming them and not accusing them. And I'm just telling you, God's gonna bless you through that and God's gonna help to heal your spouse through that. But just don't lose hope. And you know, I think as spouses too, even if we are saying the words, but our eyes show a lack of hope. Your spouse feels that. So do your best to keep on holding onto hope. Cause your spouse needs to know that you believe that you both will get through this and that life will be different one day.

And it will. And for that spouse, that's the encourager or trying to be. Make sure your relationship with God is at the forefront. Because he is the strength, he is the source. And you've got to get filled up from him for you to have anything to pour out. So especially on those days you're feeling empty, stay connected to Him. He will get you both through it. We could keep talking about this for days and days and days, but we want to continue the conversation with you about this. If you go to marriagetoday.com we've got some great articles and videos specific about this. Ashley shares some of her testimony in video form you can find at one of the exo conferences. You can find all of this, all these resources@marriagetoday.com Sweetie, any final words?

Yes. And I want to tell you, I know some of you listening to this, you're thinking I have extra high anxiety right now in anticipation of the holidays. And I want to tell you we're going to talk a little bit about that in an upcoming podcast. So stay tuned.

If you will, go to YouTube and search marriage Today.

Awesome, awesome resources on there.

And one of my favorite videos of Ashley sharing her four minute testimony from the EXO conference. We'd love to see at one of the EXO conferences, by the way. That's right, exomarriage.com and you can find more stuff there. We can just keep talking. This is what we do. We get to the end and we just hate these conversations to end.

We don't want them to end.

And if you're still listening at this point, Austin, pat yourself on the back. You are a true committed naked marriage. Part of the family.

You're part of the family and we want to hear from you. So please go to marriage today.com, let us know what you want to hear on this podcast. We read all of your messages and we'd love to hear from you.

We'll see you next time.

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