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Hey, welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. We are in part two of a two-part series about sex.

That's right.

Called 10 Things Sex Is Not. Right. And last week we talked about first five things that sex is not, or that definitely sex should not be. And today we're going to talk about five more, plus a bonus one.

That's right.

And a great question at the very end. But before we dive into that, my love has a review to share. And thank you, by the way, to all those who write reviews. We appreciate them, and they also help other people discover this podcast.

That's right. Today's review is from doggo mom 14. And I cannot see the whole title of this review, but they did give us five stars. So thank you so much. And this person says, I stumbled across this podcast a couple of weeks ago when I was having a rough time in my marriage. I have felt so encouraged by this podcast. I have listened to 70 plus episodes already. You all talk about reading a chapter of Proverbs a day, and I really wanted to start but didn't know where. That same week, me and my husband decided to make going to church a habit again, and our pastor just started a deep dive into Proverbs. At that moment, I knew I didn't stumble upon this podcast. It was God placing it in front of me. Thank you guys so much for this podcast. Wow, I mean, thank you. That's so awesome. And you know, when we hear stories about not only this podcast helping your marriage, but it leading to you growing in your faith, that is just the greatest thing ever.

It really is. That is the highest compliment to God. It is. God is using this ministry to not only encourage your marriage, but when he'll use it to bring somebody closer to him to a relationship with Jesus Christ, which makes Everything we talk about possible because it starts with with Jesus and speaking of the Proverbs, one resource we haven't talked about a lot on here, but I have a Proverbs devotional through XO called Think Like Jesus and it's a 31 day Proverbs devotional. There's also like a young adult version for specifically for like teenagers and and young folks.

It's so good.

I'll stop.

It is.

But I the Proverbs have been really meaningful to me. and I wrote this after a day, reading a proverb a day, every day for like as long as I can remember. And it's been so impactful to me. And so I was so excited to write this. And so this devotional could be a great one for your own personal study or to do with your spouse. If you go to exomarriage.com/store or just amazon.com where most people buy most books, you can get it there. All the books we talk about on here, by the way, the proceeds of them, 100% of the proceeds go right back into the ministry here at exo marriage. So you're actually not only getting a resource that helps you, but whether it's the Counterfeit Climax or Think Like Jesus or the Naked Marriage or Four Laws of Love or any of the Exo books, all those proceeds fuel and fund this ministry so that we can keep creating free podcasts and we can keep doing things to help more marriages. And so thank you so much for your ongoing support. It's going to be a fun episode today, guys. Let's dive in.

Well, we are back with part two of 10 Things that Married Sex is not or should not be. And we're starting off with one that I think, I mean, some people may laugh at this, but I think it's a really important one. And so number six is that sex should not be boring. Yeah. Okay.

It should be the opposite of boring.

The opposite of boring.

If it's boring, you're doing it wrong. And.

But in all seriousness, I do think people fall into ruts where.

Sure.

You know, it's just kind of like, I think maybe in a busy season, We can sometimes find ourselves in the place where it's just very quick. You know, you kind of are prone to just doing quickies just to meet that quick need, but you're not really engaging with each other, or maybe you just are stuck to one position all the time and just not willing to explore anything else. Or just kind of not even engaged even with your mind. You know, sometimes people are just kind.

Of- you- just kind of get an autopilot. Right. Like, yeah, this is all right, but I'm just kind of an autopilot. And we were missing out. Now, I will say though, the fact that it should never be boring doesn't mean that it's always gonna be, it's always gonna be like the same. We do a talk this year at the EXO Marriage Conferences and one of our talks based on, all these are based on our book, the Counterfeit Climax, which we've talked about a lot because we just feel like this book could really help in your sex life. So check it out, particularly the audiobook version, which we had so much fun recording. But in one of our talks at the conferences, and you should come to an Exo Marriage Conference if you have not, they're so much fun. We do a talk called the Seasons of Sex and we have four different chairs representing the four different seasons of sex. And they all start with B. It's beach babies, busy and broken, and how in your marriage you're gonna move in and out of these four chairs as it relates to your sex life and how sex is gonna look different in each one. Now sex doesn't have to be boring in any of them.

Mm-.

But just so you have the right expectations, it's important to know sex isn't always going to be like as hot as it is in that beach chair, so to speak, like in different seasons of busyness and babies and where you're struggling with broken issues physically and emotionally and otherwise, that they're going to be adaptations made and they're going to be, it's just going to be different, but it can be beautiful in every season.

It's so true. And so I think the main thing here is just again, Communicating, talking about it, saying, you know, do you find, I mean, just ask your spouse, like just, and be ready for an answer, be ready for their honest answer, but say like, do you think our sex life is boring? I mean, just ask them that. And if they're like, you know, kind of searching for an answer, it might be yes. And they don't want to say it because they don't want to hurt your feelings because it's not necessarily a personal attack, but it, because it takes both of you. So, you know, if they're kind of like, well, I don't know, and be like, well, I, the reason I'm asking is because I want to make sure it's not boring. So, like, what are, you know, how could we change that? What is your idea of making it more exciting, of making it more enjoyable, of not getting kind of stuck in a rut and then just kind of go from there?

Yeah, it can lead to some great conversations. All right, number seven. And again, it's number two on this episode, but we're in part two. If you're wondering how we started with six, go back and listen to last week, the first five. So Six and now seven. Sex should not be one sided. So it takes two guys, takes two. So that's partly why we've talked about masturbation on the podcast, that in and of itself might not always be necessarily sinful, but one of the dangers of masturbation is that it trains your mind and body to view sex as a solo sport, basically, to one sided. I know what I like, I know it feels good to me, and I'm now just gonna kind of use my spouse to recreate that feeling that feels good so that I can move to my climax. And instead of really making love, it's almost like you're just masturbating with a person assisting you. And sex is so much more than that, guys. It's physical, emotional, spiritual, all happening at once. And if it's just about your pleasure and what you like and your climax and all those things, then you're missing out and your spouse is certainly missing out. But even you are missing out because it's meant to be so mutually enjoyable.

It is. And even just having kind of like the posture, so to speak, in your mind and heart of looking at sex as just being something that fulfills your needs is really not putting yourself in the right position. Because of course we have needs. Like we're human beings and God created sex. You know, it's something that for most of us, I mean, you know, and anybody who's married listening to this, obviously it's a need that we want fulfilled. And that's good. That's all fine and good, but we can't look at that as the only aim, as just fulfilling our own needs. We really need to remember that in marriage, you know, sex is a way we can serve our spouse. And so it's really about making sure that we're connecting with each other, that we're making sure our spouse is having their needs met as well. And there's just something so beautiful about that when we see it, as, as this joint experience that, that we get to share in together. Because when we're just kind of focused on us achieving a climax personally, it's just, it really is missing out on the entire purpose of sex. And that is to connect and to connect in a really special way that is not only physical, but it's spiritual, mental and emotional. And if we're only focusing on ourselves, you know, we're, we're completely, we're just, we're kind of ignoring our spouse's needs and we're really disengaging from from what sex, you know, was designed to be in marriage. So don't want to do that.

So true. So true. Number eight, sex should not be guilt driven. Yes. And, you know, this can have multiple meanings.

Yes, it can.

So, sweetie, why don't you lead off with this one?

Yes. So we should never have sex because we're afraid if we don't, our spouse is going to be mad at us or our spouse, like, you know, always feeling this guilt or, you know, I guess I should have sex with my husband because, you know, he did. do the honey do list or whatever, or, you know, feeling like they're going to hold it against us. It's this guilt involved in this. And because that's really, again, that's not embracing sex as being this place of freedom within marriage. And it's also, you're kind of going in with the wrong feelings, you know, because you shouldn't, you're not going to.

Enjoy sex if you're feeling guilty the whole time. Right?

Right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so much more than that. I mean, there, there are times in marriage and in really all parts of life where sometimes you have to you have to move forward in doing something and let your feelings catch up.

Sure.

Because, you know, if you never feel like talking to your spouse and you just never talk, then you might lose the desire to talk at all and your marriage could really suffer. If you never feel like having sex, then you might never have sex and then you're going to lose the desire to ever have sex and then your marriage is really going to suffer. And so there are times that I think that you have to lead your feelings by saying, no, this is something that that I need, that my spouse needs, that our marriage needs, and not out of guilt, but out of a healthy view of priorities, that I'm gonna lead my heart here and let my feelings catch up. But guilt is what takes over when it's just, you know, there's all this negativity attached to sex itself. And it's maybe shame over your own past or your spouse's past or broken views you had about sex growing up. Maybe it's just guilt that you feel like it's owed in this kind of weird transactional way, which isn't healthy, and we've talked to some about that already. And so if you're feeling those things attached to sex, then you really got to get to the root of why. Like, where is this coming from? Is it my spouse that's intentionally putting this on me or unintentionally putting this on me? Or is it something coming from just within myself that I need to work through? But be dealt with because there's, there's so much more that God wants you to experience and, and guilt is not part of it.

Absolutely. All right, number nine, sex should not be self focused. And, and this is similar to one sided, but it's different in this way. So what we mean by sex should not be self focused is where whenever, you know, you and your spouse are making love that you're the one who's calling all the shots and how you do it. when you do it, and you're kind of focusing on you just getting to your climax because it's your preferences all the way that you're just focusing on yourself. That's not going to get you anywhere. I mean, you might, you know, you might have a climax. That's great, but you're going to have a terrible marriage because you're not tending to your spouse's needs. And so if you're totally focused on everything you want and you haven't asked your spouse, like, well, what do you like? You know, what feels good? What doesn't feel good? Or what time of day do you feel more inclined? to make love because you have more energy and more desire that time of day. So if you have not asked those questions, and I would venture to say maybe you're struggling with being a little self focused or maybe a lot self focused when it comes to sex. And so if you feel like that's you, let today be the day you stop and actually go and talk to your spouse.

So good. So good. One more.

Yes.

Sex should not be duty driven. And we've kind of hit on this little. already, but, you know, there's, there's more, so much more to sex than just this sense of obligatory duty or to use like a, a dictionary.com word. Perfunctory.

Perfunctory, yes. Where, you know, you just learned this word, right? And it was commented perfunctory.

I'd look it up. Why does that word, so you can look it up now, but it, it fits with this. It just don't go like, go through the motions out of the sense of duty, this bored sense of obligation, because there's so much more to it than that, guys. And so, like, so much of what we talk about on this podcast and in our books is, is to kind of just help reignite the passion, not reignite just kind of the sense of duty, like, oh, well, I guess. I guess we'll do it. But so much more than that, where sex is something that you both really look forward to.

Yes, absolutely. And I want to add one more. So here's a little bonus one. And, and, and this has kind of been seen throughout all of these. We've touched on this, but I want to give it as a definitive bonus or number 11, however you want to call it. And that is that sex should not be non-existent in your marriage.

Or even infrequent.

Or one might argue. Right. And again, it's, you know, Dave kind of unpacked in a very short form the seasons of sex. If you want to see this entire talk, You can actually become a member of XO Now at xonow.com and watch our entire talk with the chairs on the stage and get the entire description of what we're talking about because we just touched the surface on this with the time that we have. But, you know, there are going to be different seasons of sex where it's more frequent than other seasons. But, you know, making sure that you are always valuing your spouse as a person over just looking them as looking at them as a person who just fulfills your sexual needs. them as a, you know, your spouse as a person is always more important. But I want to say, even with that, you want to make sure that you both make sex a priority. And that means always talking about it, always monitoring and adjusting, make sure that I, I would even venture to say, put it on the calendar in busy Seasons. That doesn't mean you can't have it a little more than that. But just say, like, you know, how many times a week, a month, however it is for you, it's going to look different for every person. Do we need to be doing this in order for us to be satisfied? Like, what's what's that minimal goal? And then try to go above that. But that way it kind of takes the pressure off. It's something you can prepare mentally and emotionally for because I know as women, you know, with, with so many women that I talk to, they always say, you know, I do want to enjoy sex. I do desire my husband. But I always have all these things going on in my world, you know, with the kids and my job and the house and all this stuff that that list is so, it's so long in my mind that I, I kind of, I don't mean to, but it's like sexes on that list and it just gets pushed down further on the list. And so when it comes to it, when my husband's like, Hey, you ready? It's like my mind can't quite get there. And so I always tell them, I say, listen, you're mentioning that you have all these things that you happen to get done because they're on your calendar. Well, why not put sex on the calendar? Because it's gonna happen. It's more likely that that's actually gonna happen. And then what you can do is prepare your mind and heart for it. Get excited about it. Sinflirtation is text throughout the day, make sure, you know, get, get the kids prepared. If you have young children, I remember we did this especially in when raising young kids. And we would make sure that like, okay, nap time's going to be at this time. Let's give a window in case, you know, he is not really cooperating, but we're going to make sure that we like prepare our minds and hearts and our home and all the circumstances to, to make this happen because we want to prioritize our sex life. And I'm telling you guys, so many people don't like this. Like when I talked about this online, several people were like, oh, that's so lame. Don't put on the calendar. And I'm just, I'm telling you, if you, if it's just the two of you in your home and you get to dictate your entire schedule, then I guess you can be spontaneous whenever you want to. But for most of us, that's just not the case. We've got a lot of different things that, that are, you know, vying for our attention. And so, you know, we have to, we have to make sure we make it a priority. And, and I think putting it on the calendar is one way you can make sure it is frequent. because we do need to make sure that sex is happening. Sex is not everything, but it is an important part of your marriage that we, that you need to make sure you're making it a priority. And if right now, you know, when you're really listening to this, you're kind of feeling like, man, you know, we actually do some of these things that David Ashley mentioned that we shouldn't be doing, and we're seeing sex kind of in the wrong way, then this isn't to shame you guys.

Like, we've been there so long. Oh, no, no, not at all. Yeah. This isn't like a report card that, you know, like, oh, well, we're, failing. We're just terrible at this.

No, no, no.

It's really just to kind of help define reality for all of us and to call certain things unhealthy that are clearly unhealthy so that we can stop doing them if we're doing them.

Exactly.

Because like Ashley said, we've been stuck in ruts at different times and in different seasons where we've had to kind of come back and say, wait a second, we're taking on some of these things. Exactly. And so let's figure that out and get to the root of it. And so Whatever we do here is never to add shame on you or guilt. We don't want this to be guilt driven. We're trying to give you freedom. We're trying to give you tools to help break free of the negativity so that you can experience freedom and intimacy the way God intended. And so all the resources we create here at XO, not just by us, but by Jimmy and all the others, are really to help you experience that freedom. And so if you're in a place where you're like, I don't know where to start, You know, I mean, go back and maybe listen to some of these episodes with your spouse and talk about it. Maybe get one of the books we've mentioned together and talk about it, or maybe it would help you to talk to a Christian counselor or somebody here on our team at exomarriage.com/help, which can be by phone or by Skype. And with some of these more intimate issues, I know maybe you'd feel awkward sitting in an office, but they can meet with you by phone or by Skype. I mean, you could do this over the phone. and not even have to look at them if that's an embarrassing thing for you when you're talking about these intimate details. But they are a safe place for you to unpack, you know, well, this is what's going on in our sex life and I don't know how to get past it. And they can help you take those next steps. And so you don't have to figure this out on your own. That's right.

All right, we're ready for our favorite part of the podcast and that's the Q&A portion. And the reason it's our favorite part is because we're hearing directly from you all and you can actually leave Any questions you have and it's anonymous. So we're not going to announce your, you know, your name on here, but you can leave those questions at the naked marriage podcast. Is it thenakedmarriagemarriagepodcast.com or nakedmarriagepodcast.com? Okay. And today's question says this. My husband refuses to be united with me when his family is around. He thinks his parents should be able to do and say things that are harmful to me and that I should allow it because I take it out of context. He continuously puts their needs ahead of mine. His actions have caused me to turn my heart away. And I'm struggling to deal with his lack of respect for me as his wife. What should I do? Oh man, I can just feel the sadness and the frustration. Yeah, and it is deeply hurtful. We actually were just talking about this with our team and just the dynamics of in-laws and parents and some of the, how that's a struggle because it's not like you can just write them out of your life and be like, what do you mean? Leave me alone. I mean, these are people. Yeah, it's complicated.

Well, because it's complicated and because we have, you know, we've lived through this in our own lives. We're working on a book right now called the In-Law Dilemma that's going to be out next year. We're going to spend a lot of time on the podcast and in conferences and otherwise next year kind of honing in on these issues because so many people write us. I'm telling you, this is one of the main issues marriage couples face. A few things that exist now that you can look at. Pastor Jimmy Evans, founder of this ministry, has a great book called the Four Laws of Love. One of those laws is the law of priority where he unpacks why God created and how God created your marriage to come before all other relationships, including your parents, even your kids. Your marriage relationship right under your relationship with God has to be your priority and your first loyalty or else everything else is going to be out of sync. For the husband in this message, according to the wife's message here, His priorities are out of sync, and he has placed his parents in an unhealthy, unnatural position of priority ahead of his wife, and it's causing all of this breakdown. And this wife shouldn't have to stand for that. So the husband needs to realize that he's hurting his wife and that he's out of bounds for how God designed marriage by letting his parents walk around with no boundaries at all. Yes, we're called to honor and respect our parents biblically, But that never is we're never called to do that at the expense of a spouse. And so if your parents are disrespecting the sacredness of your marriage in any way, then you're going to have to put some loving boundaries in place. If you don't know how to do that, there's a book called Boundaries by Drs. John Townsend and Henry Cloud. It's a book that helped us tremendously when we were walking through some very painful family issues early in our marriage. It'll help give you some tools and some words to lovingly but firmly put boundaries in place to prioritize your marriage, and at the same time create a pathway forward where healthy relationships can be possible with everybody involved. And so that would be my initial advice. Beyond that, I think sometimes it takes counseling. It takes sitting down with a Christian counselor, or, you know, someone on our team here at XO to really speak into the situation from the outside, help this husband see how his actions are hurting his wife, and help both the husband and wife create a unified plan moving forward. I just want to add this. That was so good, sweetie.

I mean, all those steps are so essential. And again, this isn't just, you know, random advice we're giving you. We're giving you what we actually live through. We know the complicated nature of this, and we do know what things can help and. And every situation is slightly different, but those tools will be a great help to you. I do want to say this real quick. She said that your husband kind of dismisses your feelings because he says that you shouldn't allow whatever they say to hurt you because you're taking it out of context. Well, here's what I would say to him. I would say, listen, in what context are hurtful words okay? I mean, honestly, like in what context? Like I don't understand. I think that this is what's happening here. I think that he doesn't want to stand up to him. And I've been there. Like, I've been the one with the parents that are a little bit being difficult, to say the least. And I know that is the easy way out. Like, that's the easy way out. And I would just go to your husband and say, if the tables were turned here, you know, you wouldn't stand for this. Like, you would not want my mom or my dad talking to you this way. And it's just deeply hurtful and deeply disrespectful, like you mentioned here. deeply disrespectful. I really need you to stand up because again, like Dave said, our marriage needs to take top priority or I mean, she said her heart's turning away and just, and I would tell him that and say, listen, I just feel like I'm growing more distant from you because I feel like that you are putting your relationship with your parents ahead of me. And yes, we love and we will respect your parents, but you're basically just pushing me away every time you allow them to talk to me this way and just, and get help with it. I mean, it may be a huge blind spot for him, but it sounds like you have made it, you know, clear she has asserted herself and she's said, this isn't okay. And it's just hard when he doesn't seem to see it the way that you do. And again, I want to reiterate what Dave said. I would really encourage you to reach out to our marriage mediators here because sometimes it takes a third party to kind of come into a situation to help someone see how how disrespectful things really are. And I don't know why that is. I guess it's human nature, but I think that the mediators could really help you. And again, that's exomarriage.com slash help. And thank you guys again for sending in your questions, and we will see you next time. Bye bye.