Is This My Season?

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Hey friends, welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast we Undress the truth about Sex, Intimacy and Lifelong Love. I had to think about it for a second.

That was a really good like with gusto.

I've said it a thousand times and I almost forgot. Like what do we undress here? You know, that's what happens when you're getting a little bit older. We've got a wonderful guest for you today. We're gonna have a great conversation. Before we dive in and my lovely bride tells you who our guest is, I want to read a recent review again. Thank you guys for sharing. Review. The reason why we promote them and share them here is because 1 it encourages us, but 2 and more importantly, your reviews help other people discover the important conversations we're having here. Yes, so this recent Review from Katie Colette 16 says 5 stars. Great Christian based advice. Thank you all so much for this podcast. Everyone always laughs because I reference myself as Maw Maw Katie. Even though I'm in my early 30s, I was not really sure what podcasts were and finally decided to explore the podcast world. I was not super impressed with any I explored and 10 until I came across the Naked Marriage podcast. I am obsessed. Not only is it full of great relationship and marriage advice, but it is also Christian based. In this day and age it is so refreshing to have a source like the Naked Marriage podcast that is open but not pushy to non believers about what a marriage should look like and how God intends for it to be and work and how we can work towards having the marriage God wants us to have. I have an hour and 10 minute commute to work one way and I binge this podcast. I love my job but was dreading the drive when I first took this position and now I can't wait to get in the car so I can listen to this podcast on my commute. Thank you. Thank you all again. Keep shining your light for others as you always do. Katie thank you. You've made our day and for all you guys who take us with you on your commute or your road trips or, you know, have us in your office or at the gym and your ear. Earbuds. Thank you. We just are honored to be on this journey with you.

We are. Katie, that just. That just warmed my heart. I love it. And making a commute better, you know, making it a time when you can learn and connect with God is awesome. So. All right, today we are inter. Kind of an online friend that I've had for a while. We share the same literary agent, Blythe Daniels, and we just love her. And so today we are talking to my new friend, Rebecca George, and she does many things. She wrote a book called do the Gospel Centered Gumption and Grace for the Go Getter Girl. If you're watching, you can see it right here on the screen. And she also has an awesome podcast that I've been listening to for a while, since she started it, and it's called Radical Radiance and a lot of other things going on too. But we're gonna talk about today something we haven't really talked about, and that is how to support each other in our goals in marriage, both individually and together.

Great topic.

It's just a really great conversation, so let's dive in. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much for being here on the Naked Marriage podcast. We are so excited to be talking to you today.

Oh, guys, I'm so excited to be with you. This feels long overdue on both ends. I've followed you guys and have loved your ministry for years, and so it's just a joy to be with you.

Well, I feel exactly the same way as we talked about in the intro. I am an avid listener of your Radical Radiance podcast, and I love your book do the Thing. And I even listened to Radical Radiance when it was called do the Thing podcast.

So I go, how wild is that? The OG people I know.

And I love how we're connected through Blythe Daniel, who's our literary agent, and just awesome. But. But I'm so glad to have you here today because I think you can speak on so many things. And how we like to often start our podcast conversations out is kind of hearing the origin story of. Of you and your spouse. Sure. Start out just telling us how you met your husband and a little bit more about you guys. That'd be awesome.

Sure, I would love to. Well, I am married to Dustin, who is a lead pastor of our local church here in East Tennessee, which the East Tennessee part is New to us, we would both call East Tennessee home. I grew up here, and my husband lived here for about 20 years after college, and we actually met at a church I was attending in my college years and the years after that. We didn't date in that season. He was the children's pastor, and I was teaching in our children's ministry. So we knew one another well. And it's so funny and I think, really special when we began dating, there were so many people in our life, both of our lives separately, that knew us apart. But when they found out we were dating, it was this moment of, oh, Dustin and Rebecca. Well, of course, you know. And so that was really special to kind of uncover with all of our friends as we began our story together. And we dated long distance. In the season where God kind of brought us back together. He had moved back where he grew up in Mississippi to pastor a church, and we reconnected and dated long distance for about six to eight months. Our story was pretty quick. We had known each other for quite a long time when we actually decided, okay, we're both. We're in this. We're. We're really committed to this and where God is taking us and joining one another in ministry. And so I moved to Mississippi after we got married with him for a few years, about three and a half years. So the pandemic years were there and leading a church kind of through that season. And then God brought us back to East Tennessee last August, and he's pastoring a church here now. And so in our four years of marriage, we have. We have seen a lot of change. We've been through a lot of transition, and it's. It's been a wild ride, if I'm real honest, our first few years of marriage. So we. We say about this season, it's kind of the first little stint of our marriage that's just been. It's had its challenges, but it's been really fun. Like, we. We both love where we live, and we're getting to just have fun together for what feels like the first time after a really challenging season. So that's the bird's eye view.

I love it. I love it. And I love hearing from fellow ministry couples because we know that there are so many unique blessings that come with being a ministry couple, you know, when you're in voc ministry. But also there's unique challenges, and we've lived that too, in, like, the taking another job at a different church and moving towns and all that kind of stuff. It can definitely be Challenging on a marriage and especially in the early years. And I know in listening to your Radical Radiance podcast, like that, that transition to Mississippi and then, you know, a pandemic happening at the same time and being newlyweds, it was quite a lot.

It's a lot.

But I love how, and I'd love for you to speak more into the story. Really, that's what birthed what you're doing now, right? Like the book and, and the podcast. Can you tell us more about what inspired you to do that?

Yeah, I can. I would say writing, speaking, leading, something like that's kind of always been in my bones. But I had this corporate career before I married Dustin. I was a corporate recruiter and did that for many, many years and always had this longing in my heart for more in a ministry space, but I didn't have the time for it. And so to your point, I married him and moved away from everything I'd ever known to a town of 12,000 people. And everything that you imagine when I say those words was my reality, you know, when I, when I moved. And it was not an easy transition, but in its place I had all this capacity that I'd never had before. And of course, I can say that real quickly in kind of a 30 second narrative when the actual reality of it was really hard. So for listeners, maybe in a season like that, in their marriage, today I'm with you and I've been there and I can look back and just see God's faithfulness and paving the way to give me the space and the time and the capacity and to be married to a man who would champion that in me and that desire and that longing in me. And so it was in that season and really throughout the pandemic that I had the time for the first time to kind of explore, okay, I've. I've always been a book girl. I've always had this desire to write and to speak. And I took the step of starting the podcast first, which I'm really thankful for, and then the book, what came later. But it really was this great gift from God in what otherwise was a really challenging season. And. And I always like to call that out because I think sometimes that's hard to see when we're in the thick of a hard season. But God really blessed that time, as hard as it was. You know what I mean?

Yes.

It's huge.

Oh, yeah, he really does. And, and you know, you're no stranger, though, to pushing through difficult and painful circumstances because just on a physical Sense you're a distance runner. I love those stories in your book. And I've attempted to be a distance runner in the past, but not. I'm no Rebecca George. She's next level.

I don't know about that.

But because you run marathons.

Yeah, I love the story.

Well, I.

In your book and just kind of. That the hope that you got from those kids and how you tie those experiences to, you know, to life and ministry. Just thought that was that. That connected with me. So.

Yes.

Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely. I think running is one of those things where the Lord just speaks to me. When I'm out there and I'm by myself, I'm a captive audience because I have no distraction. And so even I'm writing my second book now. And just the other day I felt like the Lord just really downloaded a lot when I was just in the quiet outside just by myself. And so, yeah, he's taught me so much through that. I will say, Dave, I have not ran a marathon in about five years. So I'm with you in the. I have had my moments of being a long distance runner, but that is not my season today. But you've done it. Well, yeah, that's true. But yeah, that moment that you're talking about, I think really matters in light of our calling and how we're seeing that particularly. What you were mentioning was there's this moment late in. I think it was my second marathon. It was the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital marathon that you mentioned. And I thought. I thought I had gotten past the really emotional moment in the race where you run through the campus of St. Jude and patients and families are lining the streets. And it's such a special experience for anybody who's a runner that is looking for a new marathon to do. It's incredible. But I was getting to that point where I was hitting the wall, which you guys know about, right? That moment where you just really want to quit. And it was hot on that particular day, and I do not run well in the heat. And so I was experiencing these heat exhaustion symptoms. And in hindsight, I probably should have quit and what that was doing to my body.

Body.

But I didn't. And I was pressing through and I had this moment where. And I can close my eyes and remember exactly where I was. I was running towards this bridge coming back into downtown Memphis, and I saw this little girl sitting in a wheelchair with her family. And the closer I get to her, I can begin to hear her cheering. My name, my name is across my. My bib that I was wearing that day. And she's, you know, cheering, go, Rebecca. Go, Rebecca, go. And the closer I get to the family, I can see that she's holding this poster in her hands. And a few more steps and I can begin to read the poster. And it says, the same power that raised Jesus from the grave is living inside of you. You can do this. Same power that raised Jesus himself from the grave is living inside of you. The Holy Spirit. And I just remember taking step after step for those last 6.2 something miles and just repeating that biblical truth to myself over and over that I memorized as a child. I was raised in the church and I know that the Holy Spirit resides in us, but to actually live that out in a moment when I was wanting to quit, when I was exhausted, it actually felt like a lot of moments in our everyday calling. And that was what I walked away from, that experience kind of remembering. And the Lord really putting on my heart was in those moments when we really want to quit, when we have to endure, we're actually not doing that alone. And to really stand on those foundational biblical truths of remembering that he resides in us. The same power that raised Jesus from the grave. And because of that, we can endure through our path forward. And so, yeah, that was a really powerful moment in that race for me.

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Love it.

Thank you so much for sharing that. It's so powerful and I think it is easy to forget that, like when we're in the weeds of whatever it is, whether we're running a marathon or not. I think, you know, in your book you're talking about people who are goal oriented, wanting to fulfill these goals, wanting to go after the thing that God's put on Their heart and to use their gifts and talents and do the thing. I mean, that's why it's called do the thing. But I do think it's so easy just to want to give up, you know, because you get to this certain point and then you want to give up. And even in marriage, I know in our own marriage, we both, we're both pretty goal oriented people. Like, we, we're achievers, you know, by nature. But there have been times where both of us have maybe started down a path of something, whether individually or together, you know, something we feel called to, a project, we feel like God's called us to. But then when you really get in the thick of it, you're like, why did we do this?

Why? Why did we do this?

What were we thinking? We were just actually, before we got on this interview with you, we were recounting that. I don't know why, but we were.

I'm so much better at starting things than finishing things.

It's the problem, man. Isn't that the truth?

It is.

And I feel like as married couples, and I would love for you to speak into this, we have, you know, a lot of people will write us and they'll say, you know, I, I really, you know, my, my spouses may be more driven than me. How do I support them in that without, you know, but also temper them being so achievement mind, you know, with such an achievement mindset that they're like neglecting the marriage, you know, because there is a balance there. And what would you say to couples like that?

Yeah, man, I've experienced that in our marriage for sure. And I would say we are similar in that we're both very high drive, we're both very high achievers. We work very, I would say we don't naturally gravitate towards rest. If we drift towards anything, it's over committing ourselves, right. And so I think sharing that in common, we can see it in the other, right? And we can begin to recognize, like, ooh, man, we have, we've said too many yeses, so what do we need to say no to? And, and we can begin to have those conversations and it feels probably a little uncomfortable for both of us, right? And so that's, that's shared for somebody who maybe is, is opposite in that way. And maybe, you know, they, they, they see what you're describing in their marriage. I actually think that's a gift too. And some language that my husband and I will use sometimes when maybe he loves a particular thing and maybe I don't so much love a particular thing or. Or the opposite. I'll. I'll give you a very trivial example. The other day we were at Dollywood. We're about 45 minutes from Dollywood. I love Dollywood. It is a core memory for me. I went, it's so fun. I mean, where else in the world can you listen to bluegrass music, ride a roller coaster, and eat a funnel cake in the same hour? It's fabulous. But. So I do not mind standing in line for an hour or more to ride something I really want to ride. Right. That really just grates on my husband. He hates just standing still, feeling like he's not making progress. Right. And so he was recounting our day to a friend and I heard him use this language. He said, we love Dollywood. And what he meant by that was, I don't naturally drift, as we're saying, towards loving standing in line at Dollywood, but my wife loves riding this brand new roller coaster that opened a month ago. And I'm going to die to self and choose to stand in line and. And give her this moment that she's been wanting.

Right.

We all have those moments in our marri. And so I think sometimes it's that choice to say we in. In our oneness are going to pursue this thing or I'm going to support in that way or we need to pull back. And so I'm going to challenge you in that certain way because maybe you're the more high drive person. But that language, I think, in our marriage has actually encouraged the further discovery of oneness. Do you know what I mean? And just using that phrase of I'm choosing to use we, even though I actually don't drift towards enjoying this particular thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because you're one. You know, you are one. Even though we're not, you know, you're unified, but you're not uniform. You know, like, it's not like. So that's right.

I love that.

But being able. What I found in our journey too, even just with preferences like that, is sometimes when I come out of my comfort zone and I embrace one of Dave's preferences, I end up love, really? Even if I'm not like, she ends up having fun, like to the left. Maybe I don't love it to the.

Level more than you thought you would.

But way more than I thought I would. And I'm like, I love that, you.

Know, and me too, with her. I mean, me too. It's like, it's. It's like, you know, I end up watching Stuff that I wouldn't normally.

Sure.

With me last night.

Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome.

And.

And that was Hallmark mystery, because I love a Hallmark.

Now, I will say that one in particular was as bad as I was expecting, but there have been others. There have been others where I was pleasantly surprised. Like this. This is pretty entertaining.

There's actually a plot.

There's a plot.

I know, right? This one did not have much of a plot. I'm not even going to say the title, but we like. I liked the acting in it. Like, they're. They're sweet, you know?

Right. Yeah, yeah.

You know, it is what it is. But I think when it comes, you know, back to kind of this, people who are goal oriented, wanting to achieve things, or maybe even someone who hasn't traditionally been goal oriented, but they know there's something God has called them to and they're like, I don't even know quite how to get there. What are some tips you would give couples in particular to just support each other in that. Like, how can we support each other in, you know, taking those steps to what God has called us to?

Yeah. I would say, first of all, discerning, is it the season for that. Right. And really working through that together. I will say me and my husband don't have children yet. And so we are both in a season where we are granted the time and the space and the capacity to create and travel and speak and write books and do things that I'm sure will shift in different ways when hopefully we start a family one day. And. And so there's a lot of conversation around that, of, hey, babe, we. We have the time, like, let's do this now while we have all that capacity. And that part of the conversation too, is, hey, let's enjoy it. Because I know that, you know, our lives aren't over when we have children, but that will. That will shift for a while. Right. When they're young. And so. So I think that's part of it. And then I think the second part of it being the supportive spouse and how to do that well, would be every facet of supporting and championing that for your spouse. Right. So sometimes that means a word of encouragement of like, hey, I know you're discouraged or maybe you're scared to take that next step. But, like, I'm for you. I am in this with you. Sometimes it's creating that space to allow for that. Right. Especially if there are other priorities or it's a full season. Maybe it's saying like, hey, I'm Just going to use the example of writing a book. Hey, I'm going to give you a couple hours on Saturday morning. I'm going to keep the kids, go to Starbucks, go sit down and take dedicated time to work on this. There is nothing as an achiever that is more encouraging to me than when my spouse intentionally comes to me and says, this is how I can create space for you to take that next step. Right. I. I can't think of anything more encouraging. And so I think it's. It's the encouragement and it's the creating space even when it might feel uncomfortable or sacrificial.

Yeah, no, that's so wise. I mean, and. And I. You were so ahead of the game, even already thinking that way prior to kitten kids, because I think, yeah, we've had to probably learn the hard way. I don't think we had the wisdom. You have, Rebecca, like, before we.

Well, how old were y' all when you got married? How old were you? We were part of it.

Gosh, we were very young, very young. 22 and 20 when we got married.

And we waited about four years before we started our family, but okay. But even after that, and I came in and out of staying at home with the kids, so up until we had kids, but we both coming into the marriage, this was something we had discussed in premarital counseling. We knew that we wanted. I wanted to have that time at home, at least to a certain point in there, growing up with each of our children. And thankfully, you know, God's made that possible. We've made, you know, we've adjusted our schedules and. And I've worked full time, too, in and out. So it's kind of. It's looked a lot of different ways. Part time, full time at home, and. Which I believe is like the hardest job, but.

Yeah.

So, like, I remember in particular, I love how you mentioned the things you mentioned about making space. I was in the midst of. With our fourth child. I had been working full time, got pregnant with our fourth child, and then once we had Chatham, our fourth boy, I was like, you know, like, you know, I was enjoying that time at home. But then our marriage ministry started picking up, and I was blogging at the time, so I was working like part time, but then it was picking up more. And then we were having, like, speaking engagements and different things. And then I started, I guess I met with Blythe, our literary agent, and it was time to write my book, Peace Pirate. And it was kind of hard finding that time. And I remember Dave going out of his way to say, let me take the kids. And then there came a time where it was more than just because he's got a full time job too. He's like, okay, we need some help. Let's find room in the budget to have a babysitter come 20 hours a week. And we really prayed about it. God brought us the right babysitter and he didn't make me. Neither one of us ever made the other feel bad for needing that time. I mean, there's always a balance to it. Obviously you don't want to ever do it to the expense of your family, but I just remember for me in that season, it was, it was a, it was really good for Dave to just champion me in that. I think you've used that word, Rebecca, champion me. And saying like, okay, you know, even in the midst of this season, God's calling you to this as well. Because I think sometimes we forget that he can call us to multiple things and, and it is a balance. But I remember, I really appreciated him doing that because sometimes I would feel like I don't know if I have the time or space. And granted it looks different. Like you said, in different seasons, there's been times where I've had to slow it down. And then other times where it's like, okay, it's go, go, go time. Like, you know, like this, this is, this is the time. Let's do it. Let's ride this wave. And so, yeah, I think that's a really good perspective to have. And I think too. And maybe you could speak on this too. Rebecca, Just because you can't do everything right now is not an outright no from your spouse or maybe from God. It's because I think we get really, I don't know, just disappointed and maybe feeling like our dream, our calling is never going to fully happen because it's not right now. But what would you say to that person who like listening to this? They're like, I am a go getter girl. And I, I want to, you know, I love how that's part of your title, but I want to go and do these things. And you know, my, or maybe a husband listening is like this. You know, I know God's called me all these things, but I feel like just when I'm starting to take steps, I have to slow it back down again. What would you say to those people?

Yeah, I think we really have to focus on where God has planted our feet and that changes and shifts from season to season. And sometimes in the same calendar year Our time and capacity can shift and change. And I don't think we give ourselves enough grace for that. And so what tends to happen is the guilt and shame that you're talking about of feeling like, man, it's not my time, or is it ever going to be my time, or I'm feeling behind because I've not accomplished X by this, you know, maybe date that I wanted to. And most times in my life, I can't speak for anyone else's, but most times in my life when I experience those types of thoughts, it's because I'm not really fixed in where God has planted my feet today. And that's like the big sister not fun answer that you probably want to hear if that's you coming to the conversation today. But it's true. And there is time for those things. But it might not be today. And when we rush it. For example, I wanted to write this book eight years ago. If I would have done it my way, it would have come out long before now. But was there refining that needed to be done in my own heart that the Lord needed to do in me before I was ready to write this message in a gospel centered way way and the way that it needed to be written? Yeah, I wasn't ready eight years ago. And. And so I think there's beauty in that when we choose to see it that way. And we also know, I mean, Romans 8:1, there's no condemnation for those in Christ. So if you are feeling shame and guilt over the fact that you've not gotten to that particular place, we know that that's not from the Lord. And maybe we need to fix our eyes on where he's planted us right now. So.

Good. And I think we all need to be reminded of that over and over and over again.

It's a beautiful reminder.

Yeah.

Rebecca, what you're doing is powerful. Before we wrap up, I want to tell people where they can connect to your ministry. And first off, I want to again recommend the book that we've been talking some about, but barely just touch the tip of the iceberg. We encourage you to get this book do the thing. Gospel centered goals, Gumption and grace for the Go Getter girl. And even though I'm not a girl, I actually benefited from. Yeah. So. So, Dave, so, you know, thank you for the Go Getter guy. I got something too.

That's right.

But get that book. And Rebecca, tell folks where they can connect with your podcast, your social media, because what you're saying, the world needs to hear and we want. We want our listeners to connect with you.

Oh, well, thanks, guys. So I would say I'm most active over on Instagram. My handle is Rebecca George, author, and you've mentioned it a couple times throughout the episode. But over on Radical Radiance, my podcast, we are doing a series related to every chapter of do the Thing. So if there's something we dug into and just touched the tip of the iceberg, as you said, and you think, man, I want to hear a whole conversation about that topic. We have that ready to go for you. So I'd love to have you over there. You can grab the book anywhere you like to buy books, Amazon, Christian book, all of those places, and I'd love to have you.

Great. Well, thanks again, Rebecca, for being on here. Like you said, it was long overdue. I'm so glad to finally connect with you. And I love the ministry. I love, love what you're doing. So keep up the great work.

Keep it up. And let us know when that second book's out.

That's right.

Yeah, I'm excited about that as well.

I love it. Thanks, guys.