Repairing Trust in Marriage

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Hey guys. Welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. Today's episode we're going to be talking about trust and the nuances of it and maybe ways you've never considered before. So stick around and listen because the level of your trust in marriage and how you approach it, it'll have a massive impact before we get there. One quick announcement. I want to let you know about a new streaming service we have available. If you like what you hear on the Naked Marriage podcast and you want marriage building content, we've got something called XO now, which is essentially like the Netflix of marriage stuff. It's all of our teachings, it's Jimmy Evans, it's some of our great friends in marriage ministry. It's video content. It's like essentially having this massive catalog of a never ending marriage conference at your fingertips. It's entertaining, it's fun, it's going to help your marriage so much. So if you want to learn more about it, go to this site, XOMarriage.com now XOMarriage.com is a site where you can find out about about our live events. You put a slash now at the end of it and you can find about this streaming service. So check that out.

That's right. And I just want to thank you guys so much. For those of you who have left reviews, we just love reading these and it really gives us an idea of how this podcast is helping you. And I want to share one today. It's from YAS Kids. It's entitled Excellent Advice and they say we need all the help we can get right now. This is real and your podcast helps me so much. We just love that. So if you have not left a review and you are a big listener to this podcast, and you love it. Please leave a review. You don't even have to leave a long one. It just lets other people know about it, and it helps keep the words, the positive message going and helps marriages all around the world. So I'm so excited about this topic today. Let's dive in. I'm really excited about this topic today because it's one that we've been receiving a ton of messages about because I think so many of us harbor trust issues. It's something that we really need to talk about, really, before we get married, But I think sometimes we don't even realize we have them deeply rooted in us until we get married and kind of push comes to shove and we're dealing with being married and the reality of marriage and trying to make it the best we can make it be. And we're like, wait a minute. I have all these trust issues inside of me. And a lot of times it's not even because of your spouse. Like, your spouse hasn't done anything to break your trust necessarily, but you have this fear inside of you that they are going to do it. And so you, you know, you find yourself doing things that you never thought you'd do, like checking their phone all the time or asking them all these questions all the time. And it can cause a lot of frustration between spouses.

It definitely can. And we've. We've touched on trust issues a lot in the past, especially when there has been a specific issue of broken trust. And we've got past episodes you should listen to, like how to affair proof your marriage. Part two of that is, is what happens after an affair. We spend a whole episode on the very delicate process of rebuilding trust after an affair. We've talked about rebuilding trust after porn issues. So there are specific instances of where one spouse has broken trust, how to work through that. But what we're talking about today is really something broader than that. It might have been something your spouse did, but these issues could have been deep within your own heart even before you got married. You know, it was. There's a. There's a John Mayer song. I don't think I've ever quoted John Mayer on this podcast. Fathers, be good to your daughters. And one of the lines is, you know, I've done. Done all that I can, trying to. Essentially, I'm paraphrasing in a much less poetic way of trying to build her trust. And then finally, I'm starting to see it's got nothing to do with me. Fathers, be good to your daughters. So it's this song where he's saying, I've done everything I can to build trust with this woman and connect with this woman, but I'm recognizing it's not me, that it's not me, that she has this issue because of something she saw her dad doing. Maybe her dad cheated on her mom. And we've seen this in real friends. In fact, some of our very good friends who are in ministry, great friends. The wife, she grew up in a home where she trusted her dad, loved her dad, he was her hero. He ended up having an affair and leaving the family for this other woman. And it created such deep wounds in her that she didn't even realize how deep they went until she got married. And as time went on in her marriage, she was essentially punishing her husband and expecting her husband to fail and putting him through the wringer until finally he just had to say, I'm not.

Your dad and I'm not gonna become your dad.

I'm not gonna be. I'm not gonna do what he did. And it was kind of this wake up call moment where until then, she didn't realize this was a huge blind spot for her. She did not realize that what she was doing and how kind of unfairly she was, she was assigning this broken trust to her husband who'd done nothing to break her trust. And that can happen to all of us. And then it can be exacerbated by the fact if your spouse actually does something to break your trust, and then it's this domino effect. If you've got these trust issues already and then your spouse breaks it, and you think, well, is trust even possible?

For sure. And I think we live in a society too, that tells us all the time that trust is impossible. And so we've got to rise above that and realize that as Christians, we have a God who's helping us along and teaching us how to be trustworthy and how to trust. And so we've got to rise above the societal norms. And, you know, a lot of you listening, maybe you're in a family where you've never seen marriage last. Like, you have only seen it break up, you've only seen divorce, and you've only seen the wreckage that happens afterwards. And so you've thought about marriage, and maybe you did get married, or maybe you're engaged, but you're just extremely fearful of taking that step. Or maybe you are married, but the whole time you're doubting that it's gonna last. And I just wanna encourage you and say that you know, marriage is a beautiful thing. And just because we see a lot of brokenness around us in our own families doesn't mean we're gonna follow in the same path. But it does mean that we have to be super intentional of recognizing where we have blind spots and where we have fears and addressing those and healing from those. And those are the messages that I've been receiving a lot lately is how do I overcome this lack of trust that I naturally have against my spouse? I just assume that they're going to break my trust. One wife in particular wrote me and said, my husband is so awesome. He's so trustworthy, he's so open and honest with me. We have no passwords. He's always, you know, telling me things that he just wants me to know, to be beyond reproach and to not let, you know, the enemy get a foothold and have secrets in our marriage. And she said, so he does everything he's supposed to do. And she's being open with him too. But she said whenever he's out of town on a work trip, I just feel like I need to go and like check his computer or I need to go check something because there's this deep rooted fear of not trusting. And she said she just so desperately wants to overcome that. And so we wanna talk about how you can overcome that and the steps that you need to take.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's multifaceted here. I think that couples should have full and total transparency. I think you guys should be able to, like, pick up each other's phones and just know what's happening in each other's worlds. And, you know, Ashley's on my phone or I'm on hers.

Oh, yeah.

And it's not to like constantly be checking up on each other, but we know what's happening in each other's lives and we want to live with the kind of transparency where there are no secrets. There's no part of my phone, my life, my bank account, anything else that's off limits to her. And the same with her. To me, we're interconnected in everything. And living with that kind of total transparency is one aspect of keeping trust alive. You know, Jimmy Evans, who was our mentor and the founder of Marriage Today, the ministry which we're a part of, he has a great analogy about trust. He says trust is built in drops, but it's lost in buckets. And so I love that the trust is built consistently, little by little over time. But one big act of broken trust can dump out a whole lot at once. The issue we're talking about today, though, is really, like, when your trust bucket, so to speak, has holes in it. So your spouse is putting in trust one drop at a time, doing the right things. But because of wounds from your past, there are holes in this bucket. And it's just kind of like holes in your heart because of wounds from the past where that trust is leaking out as soon as it gets poured in. You know, like oil in an old car where you have to just keep pouring oil in, and it's never full. It never has enough. And so you've got to do the work of really identifying where those holes are in your heart. And maybe it's going back and saying, I realize now that it's because of the fact that I had a past relationship and this person cheated on me, and now I feel like I'm always going to be cheated on. Or maybe it's because I had a parent that walked out on me, and now I feel like I'm going to be abandoned and identifying that and getting real and honest about where the root of that issue is, and then allowing God to really come in and the Holy Spirit bring healing and wholeness. And that might happen through counseling, and it might happen through a long journey of a lot of communication with your spouse. But the main deal is you've got to prioritize it. You know, First Corinthians, chapter 13 is a passage in the Bible that talks about love. It says, you know, love is patient, love is kind. It goes on and on about all the things that love does and love is. And one of the lines in that passage that doesn't get talked about a lot, but I think it's so important, is it says, love always trusts. Love always trusts. And I love that. It doesn't mean that you're going to blindly trust when someone is clearly, recklessly breaking your trust. But what it means is when you do love someone, you're going to choose to see the best in them. You're going to choose to trust their motives. And when trust is broken, you're going to do everything you can to provide a pathway for that trust to be rebuilt. Because that's what love does. Love always trusts. And so if you're refusing to extend trust to your spouse, really biblically and practically, you're refusing love to your spouse. And so you've got to see it that way. You can't say, I love you, but when you're refusing to put your trust in that person, and you've got to do everything you can to build the trust and to allow healing to whatever wounds in your past are harming that trust. It's the only way love's gonna flourish in your marriage.

Absolutely. I love that, you know, speaking to the person that constantly feels like they need to check their spouse's phone or feels like they need to go check up on them, or maybe, maybe you're so far as, like, finding the location. You know, you're linked and you can find their location and you're driving around at night trying to make sure they are where they said they're gonna be and they haven't done. Like, I. I wanna make this very clear. Like, they have done nothing to break your trust. Like, they've been trustworthy, but for some reason, you still feel like you constantly have to check up on them. I just wanna encourage you and to ask yourself and say, like, why am I doing this? Am I doing this because there's something they said or did that made me feel this way? Or am I doing this because somebody in my past made me feel this way? And when you ask yourself that, if it has to do with the past or someone else, like your parents, like Dave was talking about, then I wouldn't do it. And that's how you shut that down. You know, it talks about in the Bible how we have to take our thoughts captive and we have to really put them through the filter of God's truth. And that's an exercise of putting it through the filter of God's truth. Like, what is really going on here? And that's how we begin to heal. You know, one lady in particular was asking, you know, how do I combat this? I hate that I feel this way because my spouse has done nothing to make me feel this way. That's how we overcome it. And sometimes it does take things like counseling to kind of just give us that foundation of knowing how to think properly. But it really is an exercise of when that thought comes, you know, we have to shut it down. Now, if that thought comes and there is something that God reveals to you that says, yes, your husband or your wife has said these things and they're not making sense. And we need to address this because it feels like a lie. It feels like something that is not trustworthy, then we need to call them immediately. We need to go to them immediately and talk about that thing. We don't need to harbor it. We don't need to shut it down and act like it's not there. That's not gonna do us any good either. And that's just gonna build up more fear and more lack of trust in our hearts. So we need to address it. But I think when we do that exercise, especially when you have a spouse who's been open and honest and has done everything in their power to build your trust, that's a good exercise to help you not to have those anxious and fearful behaviors ruling your mind and heart and keeping you from trusting your spouse.

Man, that's such good stuff. That is really, really good stuff. I think that part of what leads us into this is that societally, we're programmed in a lot of ways to not trust, because trust is seen by some wrongly, as a sign of weakness, that you've got to remain in control. You've got to have armor on at all times and not let anybody hurt you. And when you let your guard down, people are going to hurt you. Because all men cheat, all men lie, all women do this, all women do that. And if you have that kind of mentality, you're never going to experience the intimacy that can only come with vulnerability. You know, love by its very nature. And the naked marriage, which is what we talk about, that's why this podcast is called the Naked Marriage. It's why our book is called the Naked Marriage. When God created that first couple to be naked, it's a picture of intimacy, of having nothing to hide, but it's also this beautiful picture of vulnerability. When you're naked, there's no armor. When you're naked, there's nothing that's preventing you from being hurt. But yet it's the only place in that beautiful state of vulnerability where you can experience real and lasting love. And if you're constantly going around your house with this invisible armor on, expecting your spouse to hurt you, man, you're never going to experience the intimacy that can happen when you would lay that down and believe the best in them, right?

And you don't want to constantly be trying to catch them in doing the very thing that you feared they would do. You know, we don't wanna live like that. It's like walking on eggshells. And it really creates an unhealthy dynamic between you and your spouse. And your spouse, you know, is walking around thinking, well, she doesn't trust me anyway, or, he doesn't trust me anyway. And it just creates this negative dynamic. You know, I love the verse, seeking, you will find, ask, and it will be given to you. And, you know, there's something to that. And that's talking about to the Lord, you know, he wants us to Seek him. But I even think, you know, when we're just constantly like, we're gonna catch our spouse in the act, we're gonna do this, it's just creating that kind of direction of your marriage and being very untrusting of each other and having behaviors that are not good for your marriage. Because if you constantly are telling your spouse that they're just gonna go cheat on you, I mean, it's just in their mind, it's like putting it out there, and eventually maybe it would happen. I mean, I just don't want to see that happen in your marriages because it just creates a very negative dynamic between a husband and wife. There needs to be trust. And when someone has gone wayward, when someone has done something that is inappropriate, that is untrusting, it needs to be addressed right away in the early phases. As soon as you notice it, you don't brush it under the rug. You don't act like it's not there. You have to address it. And you wanna bring out the good in your spouse and tell them, I want to trust you. I want us to have the kind of marriage that is vulnerable, where, you know, it's just this beautiful connection that we have where we can talk about anything, where we trust each other and in every situation. And when you do that, it's reinforcing the values that you want to see in your marriage. And I'm telling you, when you reinforce those values and when you do everything you can to build trust and vulnerability, it completely transforms your marriage if it's not already that way. And it keeps it that way. When you consistently and intentionally, you know, try to trust one another and you bring out situations where you can build trust in one another.

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Yeah, it's true. And we're not saying that trust is blind. You know, we're not saying that if your spouse is really breaking your trust that you're supposed to just be an ostrich and put your head in the sand and pretend like that's not happening. We want you to deal with real issues and there are times where you have to call out very reckless and sinful behavior that you have to put in a path of accountability to rebuild that trust. But the issues we're talking about here aren't necessarily tied to anything your spouse has done. Again, these are usually issues that might be happening in your heart because of your past. Another reason to really trust is that trust is a manifestation of respect. And respect is such a big need. And give you an example of this. I had a friend our previous church. He was a self employed guy and so he would kind of spend all day as a handyman essentially, but he managed his own schedule. But his wife insisted on keeping his phone tracker on and all day long she would watch where he was. And if he would sit in a parking lot or sit in a place for too long and she decided that his break had been too long, she would call him and say, you've been sitting there for too long, you got to get back to work. And he felt so controlled and disrespected. It wasn't just the lack of trust, but he took it as this lack of disrespect because his wife had kind of taken on this parent role as if he was a five year old who hadn't done his chores instead of trusting his judgment. And so when you don't trust your spouse's judgment or when you just assume that they need constant coaching, then no longer are you guys partners, but you've taken on this kind of dictatorship role or parent child dynamic. And that can be so just soul crushing in a marriage. I know especially for a man that can feel so emasculating. It can feel like, you know, respect is a primary need of most men according to the surveys. And when we feel like, man, my wife doesn't trust my judgment, she's always correcting me, she's always believing that I'm believing the worst in my decisions and feeling like she's got to come in and correct that, or if we do it, vice versa. Obviously, if a guy's doing that to his wife, that is going to not foster the kind of love and commitment and connection that you're meant to have. And so we need to just be self aware. I think a lot of this comes down to blind spots. We can be blind to the reasons why we have kind of these holes in our trust bucket or holes in our heart from wounds from the past, and then how we're allowing those wounds to create unhealthy behaviors in the way we're interacting with our spouse. And we just need to be self aware. So I'm hoping that part of what comes out of the conversation in this podcast episode is for you and for me too, to have an honest self assessment to see, where am I doing this? Where am I not believing the best in my spouse? Even when they've not necessarily done anything at all to break my trust. And how can I correct that?

Absolutely. And I wanna talk to the spouse who is trusting, but has a spouse who doesn't trust them all the time. And you've done nothing wrong to make them not trust you. But you feel like no matter what you do, it's just not quite, you know, building the trust that you'd like to build in your marriage. I just wanna encourage you and say, keep on doing those things that build trust. Keep on being open and transparent. And, you know, when feel like your spouse is falling into the dynamic that Dave just talked about, where they're like, tracking you on the locator all the time, where they're constantly calling you and questioning where you are and what you're telling them. Just address it with them and say, listen, I love you so much. I don't want to break your heart. And I don't know what it is that makes you not trust me. How can I build more trust in our relationship? Because I want us to have a rock solid relationship. And if they can't tell you anything, if they're searching, which in this situation it sounds like they would be, just say, listen, I think that there's something from your past that has caused you to not trust people. And I wanna help you get the help that you need. Because that's no way to live.

And that's trusting them. It's trusting that they're. It's believing the best in them.

Right.

It's like you might not realize that you're coming across this way.

Exactly.

But I'm seeing As someone who loves you, that there might be some wounds here that are. That are in part to play.

Right.

So kind of practically, practically moving forward, just choose to trust, choose to build trust, choose to be consistent, choose to be transparent. If you recognize these kind of deep issues in your own heart and life, you know, be willing to do the hard work of identifying them and working through them, both personally and as a couple. And that can happen through counseling. But it definitely starts with communication, being really open and honest with each other about what you're feeling and why you're feeling it.

Absolutely. All right, we're going to move into one of our favorite parts of the podcast, and that is our Q&As.

I love the Q and A. And thank you guys for those who are sending in questions. And if you want to send in a question, I know a lot of you, you email us, you write us on Facebook all the time, and we try to interact there. But specifically for questions that can be considered to be answered on this podcast, if you go to nakedmarriagepodcast.com you can submit a question there. And here is one of the questions we received.

That's right. It says, when your spouse has tendencies to get in moods that aren't so pleasant to be around, how can you disarm it when they have trouble connecting the dots between how they're really feeling and how they're truly acting? I think this is such a good question. And when Dave and I first read it, we kind of both laughed because we know how this is, because we both, we both get in bad moods.

No, we don't.

Dave has a little. We call his bad mood Persona BMD.

Bad Mood Days Alter ego, Bad Mood Dave.

And mine is bad ash. You are a s H Bad Ash.

You can be a bad ash now. So I think everybody can slip into this. I mean, we all have moods sometimes and for sure. And you know, your home needs to be a safe place where you can express how you're feeling. You know, you can express how you're feeling. But we also have to be self aware enough and conscientious enough to recognize that if we're bringing around a lot of negativity, that negativity is going to carry over to the ones that we love.

Yes.

And so if we are in a funk, we might need to just say, listen, I'm in a funk and I need to go be by myself for a little while. And for you guys, as husband and wife, this is what it comes down to. You've got to figure out how to help each other be at their best. And if your spouse is processing things differently than you do, you have to respect them enough to say, listen, I want to help you be at your best. Because maybe when. You know, when your spouse is in a bad mood about something, you want to be insisting that we talk about it right then, like, we're going to talk about this right now. You're acting like a child. We're going to talk about this, and we're going to work through it. And that might be the last thing on earth that's gonna help actually bring peace and calm your spouse down. You know, Ashley, early in our marriage, as we were kind of learning each other, I guess, you know, I would get in a bad mood about just, you know, like, something stupid. And at first, like, she would kind of get offended that I was in a bad mood, and she would take it personally. And then she would start, like, arguing with me about me being in a bad mood or telling me how, you know, it was whatever I was feeling.

Why are you in a bad mood? Nothing bad happened.

Yeah, that's. You know, and I felt like.

I don't understand.

She's, like, undermining, and I felt disrespected. And then it made me more mad. And then it was like. Then she would want to engage, and I would want to retreat because I didn't want to, like, say something I regretted. And so she would be offended that I would want to retreat. And we had to, like, work through all that. But as we grew, like, you know, Ashley, very, very, like, wisely just recognizing, like, oh, okay, like, he's just in a moment.

He needs a moment.

He needs a moment. And instead of, like, trying to correct me in that moment, she would be so encouraging in that moment and just say, gosh, I'm sorry that you're feeling that way. I'm so sorry you're having a bad day. Is there anything I can do to help? And then she'll say, why don't you just take. Take some time, you know, go for a run. Go do this. And all of a sudden, as soon as she would say that, it was, like, it would disarm me. And a lot of times, it would just kind of instantly lift the funk I was in. And I would stop acting like a toddler. Or at the very least, I felt safe. I felt like this is a safe place where I can go and process why I'm feeling so frustrated, then come back, and she's believing the best in me. She's not Offended. She's not saying, oh, it's dumb that you're feeling that way. She's not undermining my feelings. She's creating a safe place where I know I'm loved and I know I'm respected and I know I'm safe. And just knowing that you're in that kind of safe place can really help you process emotions. But this question really is kind of taking it from a different angle. It's like, what about that spouse that isn't a funk a lot, but they're maybe blind to it.

They don't even realize how they're coming off.

They don't know how they're coming across.

That was me.

Yeah, I've done that.

I'm gonna. Dave's trying to. He's kind of making himself look bad here. And it's not bad. He's really not in a bad mood that often. But I have certain times of day where I am more likely to be in a bad mood. And it happens to be the morning. I'm not a morning person at all. And so Dave.

We let Mommy sleep.

Dave will be like, you sleep just 20 minutes longer. It's okay. I wanna get up and help.

Like, no, seriously, just lay down.

Cause, well, a couple days ago, I don't know what I think I got up with Dave and was like. Cause he'll get. We have. Our youngest wakes up at the crack of dawn every day, and he, like, comes in our room and he's like, dad, dad, dad, mom, dad, Mom, dad. And he wakes us up. And so Dave is, you know, more of a morning person. I wouldn't necessarily call you a morning person, but he'll get up with him. And I used to get up, too, right at that same moment. But it really only takes one of us to get him his warm chocolate milk that he wants. And so when I get up, though, I'm in such, like, a funk of myself that I just am really kind of unpleasant to be around. And I have realized it over the years, because I do. I catch myself and I'm, like, barking off orders at the kids, and I'm just not pleasant. And I'm, like, trying desperately to make coffee as fast as I can. And so it's just kind of funny because it's ridiculous and I look like a toddler, like Dave was just describing. But he will give me that extra 20 minutes, and it's very sweet. And he's like, no, no, you need that extra 20 minutes. You'll feel better for it. And we'll all Be better for it. But I also, in the middle of the day, like around 2, I just like don't want to talk to anyone. Now that's not always possible. I've got stuff going on, but I literally glaze over and I just need quiet.

And when possible, and when possible, which.

Doesn'T always happen, but sometimes, like on the weekends, I'll probably take a nap on a Saturday at like 2. And it's just, I feel bad for it because I wish I didn't need it, like, because there's so much I could get done. But I just. Dave is like, sweetie, I love you. This is your rhythm. Like this is the rhythm you need. And so he will just encourage me. He'll say, listen, I'm gonna go take the kids to the park and you just rest. And it's so sweet. And it doesn't, I don't even need that long. Like an hour will be like glorious for me. But the way Dave approaches it is he doesn't make me feel bad because see, his best time of day is in the middle of the day when he's just, you know, going on all cylinders. He has all the energy in the world and he could get everything done and he's wanting to engage, whereas I like want to shut down and go hide in a cave somewhere and be away from people. Like that's just my flow, each other's rhythm.

And it's that simple.

And you don't make each other feel bad for it.

No. And don't make each other feel bad. They're wired differently than you, that they respond to things differently than you, that their best times of day are different than yours. Don't try to change each other. Embrace that. And one kind of very specific nugget of advice I would ask to try to, as directly as I can answer this person's question is when your spouse is really upset, in that moment, is not the moment to try to correct them?

No.

In that moment, your main job is to encourage and to do what you can to disarm the situation and help them be at their best. Now, when it's a pattern the way you've described, wait for a moment of calm. When both of you are clear headed, when both of you are kind of at your best, you're in a good mood, maybe like, you know, whenever that is, and just say, listen, are you okay? Because I've noticed. And again, even be disarming, even in how you bring this up, not accusing, like you're a jerk all the time, what the heck but bring it up, get it together, and again, trust, assume the best in them and say, I've noticed that it seems like you're on edge a lot lately. You might not realize even how you're coming across, but you've consistently seemed like you're angry and frustrated. So how can I help with that? And what would help you be at your best? I just want to help you be at your best.

Right.

And when you approach it that way instead of in an accusing way, or even worse, like while they're upset, trying to, like, show, you know, trying to fight, right, Then it's going to only escalate and it's not going to get any better. So try to be a peacemaker. Jesus said, blessed are the peacemakers. You know? Yeah. There are times when a person's attitude and actions, if it's just consistently reckless, you might have to, you know, be. Be a lot more intentional and, and maybe even blunt in how you approach it. But your first response should always be one of trying to promote peace.

That's right. Gosh, we could go on and on about this. Maybe we need to do a whole episode on this.

I know we could just talk about this forever.

So thank you guys so much for sending in your questions. We're gonna try to get as to as many of them as we can with each podcast. And thank you guys so much for listening and subscribing. Please let us know what topics you wanna hear and please, please, please leave a review. It's the best way to let others know about this podcast. We hope you guys join us next time. Bye.

What?

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