Role Playing and Sexual Fetishes

Hey, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we have got a great episode for you and a really great question that we answer at the very end for our Q and A time. So stick around for that as well.

That's right. We are talking about some really interesting things, and this is one of those conversations, like many of ours, where, you know, if you have kids in the car, you may just want to be prepared to answer some interesting questions from them. So just keep that in mind. But before we dive in, we would like to tell you about one of our resources.

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All right, we have got an important and somewhat spicy conversation. This is pretty spicy. I mean, we're talking about fetishes. We're talking about role playing to kind of go with the theme and to fit into Ashley's fantasies. I'm actually dressed as a pool boy right now.

This is not my fantasy.

I have a Speedo on, and it's.

Not my fantasy, I promise.

You know, it is, actually.

You are my fantasy.

I'm not in a Speedo me. And a Speedo is not anybody's fantasy. I promise you that. It's just would not be a good look. We've gotten some really interesting questions lately, and this particular episode, like many of our episodes, was inspired by your question. So thank you, guys. For those who write us on Instagram, avanashleywillis you find us on Facebook or you email us or of course, nakedmarriagepodcast.com where you can submit questions that we answer right here on the air. Got a question on Facebook this week. This guy's message, he wrote it, and he said, listen, my wife and I are both Christians. We love each other. We have a good marriage. We have a good sex life, and we believe in God's plan for sex. And we want to make sure we're not stepping out of bounds or playing with fire, so to speak, that might come back to harm us. And I have a preference in the bedroom. It's actually a fetish. Fetish is the word that he used that stems back to his childhood when he was exposed at an early age to these Fetish videos of spanking. The videos weren't themselves porn. It wasn't depicting sex, it wasn't depicting nudity, but it was depicting spanking in an erotic manner. And that kind of imprinted on him. And it created this link between spanking your partner and arousal and sex. So that when he did get married, this is something that he wanted to bring into the marriage. His wife was okay with it.

Right.

And he's saying, you know, we're both okay with it, we're not hurting each other, but I just have this fetish for, you know, for spanking and for that being something that turns me on. And frankly, I'm not sure that I can even be aroused without it. So it's very much linked now to his whole sexuality and his whole sexual expression within marriage. And he's just saying, you know, what do I do with this? Do we just kind of keep going? And as we've done research, a lot of people do have fetishes. And we're not just talking about fantasy. We're actually going to do a future episode, specifically just kind of about your fantasies in the bedroom, wanting to act out, you know, specific things. But, but when your fetish is something that you feel like, I can't, I can't enjoy sex or maybe even I can't even have sex without this very specific role play or without this very specific act or object or whatever it might be, what do we do with that? And so we want to have an honest, unfiltered, possibly at times awkward, but we're willing to embrace the awkward for your all sake. Cause we love you. And we're gonna talk about fetishes and role playing in the bedroom.

That's right. And so we wanted to kind of look at what kind of leads to fetishes. And so I did some research on this and there was a great article from Psychology Today and it talks about like why people tend to get fetishes. And it's really interesting. So I'm just gonna read directly from this article because I couldn't say it any better. And it says fetishes appear to be the result of early imprinting and conditioning experiences in childhood or adolescence, for instance, where sexual excitement and or orgasm is paired with non sexual objects or body parts or as a consequence of strong traumatic emotional and or physical experience. And says fetishes may be in part influenced by rejection of the opposite sex and, or by youthful arousal being channeled elsewhere deliberately or accidentally. And it says some children have been said to associate sexual arousal with objects that belong to an emotionally significant person, like a mother or older sister, and is known as symbolic transformation. And I just thought this was really interesting because, you know, there is a psychological aspect to this because it's something where your mind gets fixated on. On something, and your brain has tied this to sexual arousal. And, you know, in the instance of the messages, the message that we received from that guy, I mean, he was saying, like, at a young age, his first exposure to something erotic was this. You know, these spanking videos where he kind of immediately in his brain, it was like, that is what leads to arousal for me. And, you know, doing more research on this in this article, it kind of goes on to say that fetishes in and of themselves aren't necessarily considered detrimental to someone or, like, a psychological problem, but where it becomes a problem is when it is harming yourself or harming others. And when it comes specifically to marriage, that means leading you to do something to hurt your spouse or make your spouse feel unsafe or leading you to maybe go outside, you know, your marriage to fulfill that fetish. And so in this instance, you know, this. This couple's not doing that. The wife is fine with it. The husband enjoys it, and it's something they enjoy together. But I do think in marriage, where a fetish can especially become a problem is if you cannot become aroused at all without this fetish being present. And when I was reading this article, it said that most of the time, people with fetishes can achieve arousal, can enjoy sex without it, but in extreme circumstances, if you can't, I think that's where you fall into a little bit of trouble, because then it's like you're making that fetish more important than coming together with your spouse and enjoying sex, because as we've talked about so many times on this podcast, sex is a gift from God designed specifically for a husband and wife to enjoy together. And so when it becomes more about the fetish and just achieving your own sexual arousal, it just. It's problematic because it's making it just an act to make you, you know, have an orgasm, essentially, and not. Not really coming together with your spouse and enjoying sex in the way that it should be enjoyed.

Yeah, that is so well said, sweetie. And, I mean, one of the big themes we have here on the Naked Marriage podcast in our book, the Naked Marriage, is pointing back to the biblical truth that God gives us enormous amount of freedom as a husband and wife in the bedroom. And so we want you to have that freedom and enjoy that freedom. But a fetish can oftentimes be the illusion of acting out your freedom when really it becomes its own prison. It can become the opposite of freedom because it's holding you in bondage, no pun intended. If bondage is actually one of your fetishes, spiritual bondage, like a spiritual bondage where you feel trapped and imprisoned by it or addicted to it. And like, you know, Ashley was, was talking about, where at that point your spouse just becomes a means to an end. Just the warm body that you're using to act out that particular desire or fetish that you're fueled by it, you're addicted to it, and it's no longer an act of making love with your spouse and, and the oneness and the pleasure and all that God intended sex to be, but it becomes almost like a junkie having to get one more hit and your, your spouse is just kind of a willing participant and, you know, helping you achieve that momentary high. But at that point, if that's all that it is, really, it's not freedom in the bedroom, it's bondage. It's not helpful or healthy. And so that's what we really have to talk about. And if that's where you get with any kind of fetish or anything in the bedroom, where I have to have this to really get turned on at that point, at that point, I think it might be worthwhile having some conversations first with your spouse. Not in the moment, but just always say talk to your spouse about sex over breakfast in like natural ways.

Without children in the room, without your.

Children in the room. And then if, if it really, if you both believe like this has become an out of balance problem or issue that I really want to get to the root of this. I want to go back to whatever it was in my past that set this thing in motion, because this has gone. This is more just from a preference. And I think it's great. It's fine to have preferences in the bedroom.

Absolutely.

Positions you, you know, to enjoy the freedom and the flexibility, so to speak. But if it's no longer that, if now it feels more like a prison that I can't escape.

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It might be good to meet with a counselor who specializes in these kinds of things, a Christian counselor, by the way, to help you navigate through this and help you enjoy your preferences with your spouse in the bedroom without being in bondage to a specific imprisoning form of fetish.

Absolutely. And I think when it comes to enjoying sex, again, like Dave said, there's a lot of freedom that, you know, there's certain boundaries that are very clear in the Bible about not bringing in any other person into your marriage bed, you know, whether physically they're in person or virtually when it comes to things like porn. But other than that, there is a lot of freedom. It needs to be a safe place. It needs to be a place of love and respect.

And.

But I think most of all, when it comes to sex, and even when it comes to preferences or fetishes, we need to think about, like, when it comes to sex, is my number one aim for having sex with my spouse, to connect with them and to share in this experience, or is it just to meet my own sexual needs? Because I think when the number one reason is just to meet our own sexual needs through a fetish, through whatever it is, you know, whatever our preferences are, then that's when things, you know, they're really out of balance. Cause it needs to be the number one reason in our mind and heart. It needs to be to connect and really to serve our spouse too. It can't be this selfish thing, you know, it needs to be to come together, to serve our spouse, to connect with our spouse in a way like no other way. And so I think that where fetishes can kind of take us and lead us maybe down a path that we didn't intend is when it becomes about that particular fetish. And I think that, you know, we're gonna kind of turn the conversation a little bit here. I think another thing that is kind of in the same vein as fetish is roleplay. And we've had lots of conversations with different people asking about role play. And again, God does give us a lot of freedom when it comes to this. You know, maybe that can spice it up for you. If you have, like a fun little role play thing that you do, that's fine. But again, if it becomes more about the character that you're playing and you cannot achieve sexual arousal without thinking that your spouse is some other character or. Or maybe like you really have a crush on this certain you know, movie star. And you always want them to act like they're this certain movie star. I mean, that's really. That's really, you know, it can hurt your spouse's heart in the long run. And I actually talked to a wife about this at one of our conferences once. She was saying, you know, she and her husband have enjoyed roleplay for a long time, but he has this one specific character that he always asks her to play, and he likes to play a specific character. And as she calls him by his real name and doesn't call him by that character's name, he gets really angry with her and it kind of ruins the moment.

And.

And she said it's just gone so far as to. He can't get into the mood for sex unless they are in this role play dynamic. And she said, you know, she started crying talking to me, and she's like, I want to support my husband. I want him to, you know, I want him to be attracted to me. I want him to enjoy sex. But I feel like it's become more about playing out his fantasies and being in these certain kind of characters than really connecting with me. And she said, now I want him to want me. And I think, you know, it just, it broke my heart as I was talking to her, because I just thought that's exactly what it's all about, is we want to want our spouse and not this character, not this fetish, not this means to an end when it comes to sex.

Yeah, that's so good. You've got to want each other, right? That is, yeah. My mind is just kind of spinning with all of the different questions and doubts. Because the bottom line is, you know, God says in scripture, the marriage bed should be kept pure by all. Now, again with that. Pure. That doesn't mean boring or bland or only one position or anything like that. But the pure means it's a safe place. It is the safest place on earth for both of you. And if the marriage bed no longer feels like a safe place for one or both spouses, then you really have to step back and ask yourself why. If the sexual aspect of your marriage isn't bringing you closer together on every level, if it's something where it's one spouse who's kind of dominating in terms of his or her preferences or fetishes, and the other spouse, over time is just feeling used or maybe even kind of dreading sex, maybe going along with it as a way to serve the other spouse's needs, but is not themselves enjoying it. If the sexual aspect of your relationship isn't bringing you closer physically, emotionally, spiritually, then you have to step back and ask yourself why. And I'm not saying that there aren't lots of places in marriage for one spouse to really want to serve and accommodate the needs of the other spouse. Whether it's in terms of, well, he or she wants to try this, sure, let's give it a try. Because they want to and I want to serve their needs. Or maybe one spouse has a much higher sex drive. The other spouse says, you know what, let's do a quickie. You know, I don't really need it right now, but you do. I want to serve you in that way. Now, if that's all you're ever doing, that's an issue. But sometimes within balance, saying, I want to meet your needs, I want to serve your needs, even though I might not be feeling it right now, or this might not be something that I care anything about trying to. We'll do that for you. But very quickly, if this can become out of balance to the place where it is always one spouse just trying to expect the other spouse to be this on demand sex doll, so to speak, to just act out whatever, whatever, very quickly that's going to get out of balance and it's going to make the others, it's going to make both spouses actually start drifting apart. Oh yeah, because at that point you're not using this beautiful gift of sexual as a way to come together in unity, spiritually, emotionally, physically. But it just becomes this means to meeting one spouse's very specific needs and the other spouse is just kind of an inactive participant in that. So if in your marriage, any aspect of your sex life is something that's causing you or either spouse to feel like, I feel like this is causing a wedge in our marriage instead of unity, then it's time to talk about it. And that wedge we've heard from, you know, from one spouse, from like just for instance, a wife says, you know, my husband really likes to talk dirty in the bedroom and you know, and call, you know, call me names or to just use language with each other that we would never use elsewhere. And I go along with it, but really it makes me feel dirty. It makes it kind of mood for me. It kills the mood for me. It brings this level of shame instead of freedom. So he's getting super turned on by it. And like, I'm feeling really disconnected from him. And so I think you guys have to talk through these things. If one of you is feeling really Disconnected by this, then it's a problem for both of you, right? Anything that's a problem for one spouse is a problem for both spouses.

And it's a, you know, it's not. If you're listening to this and you're like, oh my gosh, you're describing me. You know, I don't want you to think, oh my gosh, we're doomed. You know, this is a great opportunity to talk through things, to really hear out your spouse and to really understand kind of where the desire comes from, you know, And I want to kind of shift to talking about this whole thing about being, having a dominant and a submissive. And I know years ago there was that famous, those famous films, you know, 50 Shades of Gray. I've never seen the entire movie, but they're shown on TV now, so I've seen some scenes from it. And you know, I know it has that whole dominant and submissive thing, but what people fail to see is, you know, in that main character who wants to be dominant, it's because of a childhood trauma, it's because he was himself sexually abused. And, and so this has really been glorified. And it kind of makes me so sad because people who, you know, we hear from people all the time who have been sexually abused and it's just something that they carry with them and it takes years to heal from. And, you know, so I just want to point that out quickly that, you know, if you're listening to this, you've been sexually abused and maybe you're dealing with some of these very issues. Because of that, you know, our hearts go out to you. And I just want to encourage you to go to counseling, to go to a Christian counselor, get help, work through this. You don't have to let this define your life. You don't have to let this hold you back from having the marriage that God wants you to have or to even have the sex life that God wants you to have. And so like going back to talking about dominant and submissive, for some people this is a turn on, but I think it can go again. Just like the fetish thing, just like the role play thing, it can go. It, it can steer us wrong when one spouse cannot be turned on unless they're in that, that dynamic. Like there's some people who've written us where they feel like they need to be dominated. Like they need to feel like their life's in danger and like, like their spouse is going to harm them in order to be turned on. And I would just Ask yourself, why is that? Like, that probably goes back to some kind of trauma in your life. And I would say, you know, that's a, that's probably a red flag that you need to go see a counselor and work through that, because you don't need to feel in a prison of having to put. Be put in this dynamic. And the same goes for the person who feels like they have to be the dominant one. They have to be holding down their spouse in some way in order to be aroused. Again, that probably goes back to an issue of control in your life. Maybe you felt out of control and it has manifested itself. And you feeling like you have to be in this dominant position of control when it comes to sex in your marriage in order to be turned on. These are things that we need to work through. Now, if it's something where it's a little role play thing for you guys, you know, and it's neither one of you feels harmed and you feel totally safe and it's spicing things up, that is the freedom that God gives us. But again, you have to. It's a slippery slope that we really have to monitor and adjust all the time. And it really comes down to what is going on in our mind and heart. You know, why, what. What is the motivation here? What is bringing on this desire? And if it's something where we're being held captive by it, that's not of God, that's something where we need to go, we need to work that out. Because God wants us to have freedom. He doesn't want us to be a captive to anything from our pastor, especially anything someone else has done to us and that we've been a victim of. We need to work through that and have the freedom that God wants to give us and the peace that he gives us. And so, you know, please, if you're listening to this, and this is your dynamic, we are not judging you in any way. We are just saying this is a great opportunity to talk about your motivation for doing these different things. For wanting to be dominant, for wanting to be submissive, for wanting to be in roles, for wanting to have this fetish every time. It comes down to the mind and heart and most of all, God, you know, when it comes to sex, he just wants us. He wants our hearts to be pure and he wants our hearts to be, you know, for our spouse to have a desire for our spouse to come to our spouse and connect with our spouse in an emotional way, a spiritual way, in a physical way that is like no other.

And that is so well said. And coming back to this theme of freedom that we have in the bedroom. But not. Not using freedom is really just a way to mask a form of unhealthy bondage. There's a Bible verse that I think speaks to this really well, and it's from First Peter, chapter 2, verse 16, and it says, for you are free, yet even in our freedom, we're still under God's authority. And so don't use your freedom as an excuse to do evil, or don't use your freedom as an excuse to do something that's hurtful or wrong. And I think that's really. That's what we're talking about here. We have such freedom in Christ, you know, whom the Son has set free is free indeed. We're a new creation in him. Whatever we've been through, whatever baggage, whatever abuse we've endured, whatever sin that we've carried into the marriage, that's created some sexual baggage, we've been free, set free from that. But don't use your freedom as an excuse to go back, you know, into continuing to open up old wounds. Don't use your freedom like the book of Proverbs talks about, like a dog returning to its vomit. Like, you know, going back and eating this thing. That is disgusting. So there's no place for any kind of shame. You don't need to feel shame right now in this conversation. This is not meant to put shame on anyone. This is meant to lift shame off of you. Shame is not God's. Shame is the devil's business. You know, God will sometimes bring conviction, which is very different from shame. Conviction is saying, hey, this is hurting you, like a hand on a hot stove is going to hurt. And that impulse of pain is meant for you to take your hand away from that stove so that you don't hurt yourself. And if you're feeling any kind of sting in your marriage as it relates to what's happening sexually, then talk about it. Talk about it openly with your spouse. And if it doesn't seem to resolve, talk about it openly, perhaps with a Christian counselor. But just know that God's plan for you, God's plan for your marriage is one with a thriving sex life. It is one with freedom. It is one with peace. It is one with joy. It is one with unity. And if your marriage is missing any of those aspects, inside or outside the bedroom, and then work together to get those, because don't settle for anything less.

It's so true. And the bottom line is you can work together and get Those things. You know, some of you listening to this today, your heart is kind of heavy right now because you're like, gosh, I mean, we've dealt with these issues. And I felt insecure and I felt shame in this, and I felt like sex is dirty because my spouse wants to do things I don't want to do or I want to do things, and my spouse has kind of shamed me for it. And I just want you to know that you can work through these things that, you know, just because maybe you've heard something and you're. And you're feeling convicted doesn't mean that you're doomed. Doesn't mean that, you know, shame on you. Like we're saying. Shame on you. We're not. We're saying, you know, this is just. It's a sign. Just like Dave just said, putting that hand on the hot stove and knowing that it's burning you. It's a sign that maybe there's some things to work on. And the truth is, there is no marriage that has arrived in any area of the marriage. Like, we all are works in progress. And God is not looking for perfection from us because none of us are perfect. He just wants us to keep on pursuing him and pursuing one another and achieving progress. And that's the whole reason that we do this podcast, is because we ourselves are always learning. We've been married almost 18 years. We've been together about 20 years, and we are always working hard.

We've been married. I can't believe I get to correct you.

Almost 19 years.

18. And a half.

And a half. Oh, that's right.

You shortchange us. A year.

I'm so glad that you corrected me.

I caught it. Oh, that's great. You did.

Yay.

Yay. You know, and you're just as beautiful as you were.

Oh, my goodness.

I'm looking old, but you somehow keep looking young. So, yeah, guys, just keep all those things in mind. And don't forget to have fun like sex is. Sex is supposed to be fun. We're not coming into your bedroom wearing a referee hat and a whistle, trying to call fouls. No, we want you to enjoy freedom and so does God. But if that fun is.

We just want to see you have a full life.

Yes.

The life that God wants you to have in your marriage and in the rest of your life.

It's good stuff. Don't settle for anything less. All right, we got a great question. I mean, we've been answering, I guess, a great question for this whole episode, but we Always end the episode with a very specific question that you Send in@nakedmarriagepodcast.com Thank you guys for your questions and for those who send us, again, questions on Instagram, avanashleywillis or Facebook, wherever you send them, we appreciate them. Sweetie, why don't you read this week's question?

All right? Says hi, Dave and Ashley. My question pertains to the orgasm episode that you released. How do I know when I've reached an orgasm? I've been married for two years, and I'm not quite sure if I have. Some people say you will just know, but that phrase only confuses me more. Sometimes I feel what I would describe as a small chemical release in my brain, but it only lasts a second or two. I thought that it would be a bigger sensation than that. What are the actual signs that a female has reached orgasm? Does what I described sound like? One side note, my husband is engaged in helping me try to reach this high, so my confusion is not due to him neglecting my pleasure.

This is a great question, and honestly one that we get a lot, and it's an important question, and I'm glad that you guys are writing us these questions and that you consider us a safe place to have these conversations. And so this lady is wanting to connect with her husband and to make sexual fulfillment a priority for both of them in marriage. And it sounds like this husband is doing all he can and making this a priority as well. But she is feeling a little bit maybe of insecurity, of, I don't know, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I don't know if I'm experiencing it or if I'm not. And so how do you know? How do you know? What is it supposed to feel like? And what can we do differently to help reach and sustain a pleasurable orgasm for both of us?

Absolutely. No, I think this is a great question, and I want to let you know we don't have enough time to go into great detail. We're going to touch on it, but if you want to know more about this, go back and listen to sexpectations part two in our podcast. We have Dr. Becky Allen on there, and she is a physical therapist with a specialty in women's health issues, specifically.

Pelvic floor issues, which I didn't know what that was.

We didn't even know. Like, we were so excited to have her on, but she goes into great detail on this. But just to kind of wrap it up in a, you know, just in a short time, you definitely sound like you're having maybe the start of an orgasm because she says she feels a small chemical release in her brain. But there is obviously there's other physical things that go on. So it is emotional, it's spiritual, it's physical. But you are definitely going to have some muscles that are going to clench in the female region and they're going to clench during orgasm. And that's definitely a sign that you're having an orgasm. There's blood that is rushing down there and you're going to have some flowers, fluids that are going to come down there. And so it's a full physical experience with it. And I think that's something that it sounds like she wasn't sure what are the signs. And so that's something that you're going to experience. But I will say this, it's a little different for every person. And so the length at which you experience that's going to be a little bit different. The things that actually stimulate you to get to orgasm are going to be a little bit different. And so I think it's awesome that you have a husband that sounds like he's very open to finding out what those places are like, what really gets you there. But one thing I want to point out too is there's not usually simultaneous orgasm with couples. Like that may happen every now and then, but most of the time, right? I mean, hey, if it happens, amazing, that's awesome. But like, it's usually one goes before the other and so it's just a matter of serving your spouse and being conscientious to make sure you both have an orgasm. But it sounds like you guys are an awesome couple being patient with each other and we really appreciate you writing in this question.

Guys. Thank you so much for listening, for laughing and learning along with us. Great questions. Continue to just have these conversations in your marriage. Communication really is the starting point for nearly every improvement in marriage and the solution for most of the struggles we face. Thank you for subscribing to this podcast. Thank you for leaving your 5 star reviews wherever you're listening. It really does help other people discover it. We read, by the way, all of your reviews and they we love hearing from you. We love it and it means so much to us to receive those and let us know what kind of future episodes you'd like to hear because this is really, really for you. For some additional resources, encourage you to check out our Netflix of Marriage, so to speak, which is called XO Now. You can find out more about that at XONow TV my love. Any final words?

I just appreciate you all listening. Have a great day.

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