The Birds and The Bees

Every story you love, every invention that moves you, every idea you wished was yours. All began as nothing. Just a blank page with a blinking cursor asking a simple question. What do you see? Great ideas. Start on Mac. Find out more on apple.com Mac hey. Welcome back to the Naked Nerds podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. We've got a steamy topic today, especially for those who are parents. Yes, this is going to be an important one to listen to, but before we dive in, Ashley wants to share a recent review.

Yes. Thank you again for all of you leaving reviews. If you have not left a five star review yet and you love the Naked Marriage podcast, please do so because that's. That's how we let people know about it.

It helps a lot.

It helps so much. Okay, we have one today from Amelia brought. She entitled it what a Game Changer. She says this podcast is such an insightful and beautiful podcast. I haven't been listening for terribly long and I am already hooked. This podcast has helped me to recenter my feelings around marriage. All of my siblings are getting married within a year and I couldn't help but feel a jealousy brewing around what they are getting to go through and getting to be with the person they love. Currently my boyfriend, hopefully soon to be fiance, is not able to get married yet and we have discussed this topic in depth. This podcast has really helped me to get away from this selfish view of jealousy that was beginning to come up into my life and now I can share in their happiness with a security that I don't need to rush things just because my siblings are. I am someone who definitely agrees with saving yourself for marriage, but my siblings aren't and it's sometimes a challenge in myself to fully come to terms. Although they are getting what they want now, the the way that I am going is the way that God has instructed and if I have the ability to follow that, I should. This podcast has brought me peace of mind and excitement for how I can improve my current relationship with my Christian boyfriend and my siblings. I am so excited to listen more. Thank you. I just love that. Thank you so much Amelia for sharing that and we hope that you keep on listening and are soon to be engaged. We're so excited for you and all the things ahead. We're excited about this topic today, so let's dive in.

I'm so excited we are diving into this topic today because this is huge. This is huge and it's not. It's not as specifically a marriage issue as most of what we discuss, but I think that your marriage has an awful lot to do with this. And for those of you who have children, man, this episode is for you today because one of the most important and sacred and scariest duties as a parent is to teach your kids about relationships, to prepare them to be a good husband or wife someday, and specifically to talk to them about God's plan for sex. In a world that is so confused on these issues, they're hearing a million different messages. We have four boys ranging in age from preschool to high school, and they're just growing up in a world that's different because of the access they have through technology to a whole bunch of information that we didn't have as as much access to a generation ago. And so it's even more important than ever for parents to be the ones who are guiding these conversations, because here's the deal. Your kids are hearing about sex way earlier than you think. They're seeing stuff way earlier than you think. And putting our heads in the sand as parents is not the approach. You can't delegate this just to churches or schools or anything else. From the time your kid is in kindergarten, they are learning and hearing things about sex. And so we're going to talk about how to have the talk with your kids, because here's the first secret of it. The talk is not one talk. It is an ongoing conversation that starts early and it continues. And, and so how to be that safe place for your kid to talk about sex. And, and that's. We're going to dive into. We've been doing this a lot lately. We spoke to our kids youth group last night about sex and relationships and pornography. And in our high schooler, we're just kind of burying his heads in his sand, in his hands, listening to his parents talk about sex in front of all of his friends. It was pretty awkward for him. But we've, we, we counted a privilege to be able to have these conversations. So we're just going to, we're going to dive in and talk about it on the, on the podcast. And hopefully this will, this will be helpful to your family.

That's right. You know, I think that it is something where it can be so awkward for parents. I mean, I just want to just recognize that, that I understand the awkwardness that many of us feel talking about this, and I think it's for many different reasons. I think part of it is you're afraid. The questions that you're afraid of the questions that your child may ask you when it comes to you personally. Because especially, you know, as Christians, we're encouraging our kids to, to wait to have sex until they're married. And so of course it lends itself to kids saying, well, did you and, did you and dad wait? Did you and mom wait? And what, what were your experiences? You know, Cause kids are curious and, and so I think a lot of parents shy away from this because they're afraid of the questions they're going to receive. But the bottom line is, you know, as parents, we want our kids to come to us first before going to Cosmopolitan or before going to the Internet. My goodness. I mean, there's no telling what they're going to find there or even their friends at school. We want, we want ourselves as parents to be the main resource in their life when it comes to sex and relationships. And how we cultivate that kind of relationship with them is by being, you know, early on, those first people to talk with them about it. And of course, when you bring this up with your kids, they, you know, they've probably already heard the word sex. And like, for us, I think we started having these conversations around 9 or 10am I, am I saying that right? In age appropriate ways. And they had already heard the word sex. In fact, I remember Connor, our second one, had a very weird idea of what it was. And so I'm really glad we had.

That conversation with him because he'd heard a lot.

He had heard a lot. We were like, oh gosh, that's really not at all, you know what it is. And for us, you know, again, we talk about it in age appropriate ways, but we also, we use the actual words for body parts because I think that can cause a lot of confusion when you have little code words.

You know, there's the toot toot and the haha. And they do, and they're like, what are you talking?

What in the world is that?

Just use real words like, you know, penis and vagina. You don't have to bless, just using real words. And so that is his part of it.

Yeah. And so like, you know, we started talking about it and in age appropriate ways, easing into it, talking about it, answering any questions, and we just kind of go on from there. And I'm glad we did this because early on, you know, we always told our boys, you can ask us anything. And if you have a question about something, no matter what it is, you can ask us if it's a word, if it's an act, if you know or if you have no clue what it is and you've heard this at school, or you hear all the kids are doing it or whatever, please come to us and ask us. And thankfully, you know, our oldest, Cooper's a freshman in high school. Now. Over the years, he has come to us and you guys, sometimes there's been words where I act like I know what it is and I have to go look it up. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's what they're calling it these days because they have new words for things. And then we'll sit down and we'll explain it to him. And then we'll talk about what God has to say about this. What does the word say about this? And then we'll talk about, you know, the, the, the real godly view of sex and what sex is really meant for. And, you know, why, why do some people kind of follow a different path? And we'll just have these age appropriate conversations.

Yeah, and, and it does have to start early. You know, I, I remember I took, you know, our, our middle son Connor when I took him to the, the haircut place barbershop when he was like six maybe.

Oh, yeah.

And they had all these magazines at the barbershop. And I didn't really, you know, look through the magazines first because it was like a field. And I thought that's just what all of them were. But I looked over and he, his eyes are so big and he's staring at this magazine. And I go over and look at what he's looking at, and it's Maxim. He's looking at Maxim magazine. And if you're not sure what Maxim is, it's kind of like, you know, like one step up from Playboy. You know, it's, it's scantily clad ladies. And so he was just looking at this and we close and say, buddy, you know, listen, like that's, we shouldn't look at that. And you know, we started having a conversation with him. Like, look, you know, God wired us up to be visual and to be drawn to, you know, to seeing people's bodies, but when we just stare at somebody's body, really, that's not good for anybody. I started trying to have that conversation in an age appropriate way. And he goes, but Daddy, I like looking at those girls. And I'm like, well, buddy, you know, that desire that God put within you to appreciate, to appreciate a woman's beauty, that's something from God, but he's put that in you very specifically for you to be Able to adore and cherish your wife someday. And for you to look at other ladies that way just for your own entertainment, really, it's not being nice to those ladies and it's not being nice to God. And it's going to hurt you too. And he's, you know, I'm trying to have it in a seven year old appropriate way. And he goes, okay, okay. So I give him, you know, like a field and stream so he can look at pictures of like dogs, fish and dogs and stuff. And I look over a minute later and he's got the field and stream held up, but he's got those big eyes again. And I walk over and at 7 years old and he had hidden a Maxim inside the Field and Stream magazine. And he's like, I'm sorry, daddy, I can't help it. I just really like looking at these ladies. And so we closed it and you know, we had more talks about that at home. But you've got to meet your kids right where they are and you've got to be willing to dive into the Messy conversations. At 7 or at 17, our oldest, Cooper, came home from his first day of eighth grade. Oh, yeah, you want to tell him that story? Because this was an eye opening moment for us.

Yeah. Again, we always tell him, you know, please come ask us, like, don't assume what you hear at school is the truth. You know, ask us about anything. So he comes home, we're like, oh, hey buddy, how was school? He's like, it was pretty good. Something weird happened on the bus though. And we're like, what? And he said, well, first I wanna ask you a question, mom. And I'm like, okay. And he goes, do girls like to see pictures of boys penises? And I was like, what?

You know, but you didn't act shocked.

I didn't, I didn't.

I really hold it back because we've learned that if we act shocked about anything, our kids shout out or disgusted, they shut down. And so we'll talk about it. Yeah, we've gotta stay calm and keep the conversation going. I'm just praising you.

Sorry to interrupt, but you, I was holding it back.

You did that? You were just like, oh, well, tell me more.

I was like, okay, now why, why were you asking that? And he goes, well, he goes, on the bus, there were all these guys who had taken pictures of their penis and some were doing it like, you know, putting it down their pants with the flash on, taking a picture, showing it to each other and then texting girls with and they. They refer to it, you know, as like a penis pick, or they have other unsavory terms for it. But it's like, that was a thing. And he's like. And I could tell that this was something they do regularly. And he's like, is that really something girls like? And he's like. And he already knew, like, this wasn't a good thing. They said girls like this, right? And I was like, buddy, let me tell you, okay? I've lived a long time. This is not something that girls want to receive in their inbox, okay? And plus, it's forever. Like, you take a picture, it's there, you can erase it. Apple still has it, Android still has it. Like, you don't, you know, do those kind of things. And I'm like. And it's really kind of gross and disrespectful to a woman to send that in. Illegal, actually, because it would be considered child pornography. But it's like, you know, I just explained all this in a very calm way. I sound more excited, you know, talking about it right now because it's something I'm so passionate about, like, him not doing. But, like, I. I was, you know, I did it real chill and talked to him about it, and it was. It was so good that he came to us to talk about that, because I thought, oh, my gosh, I would hate it if my son thought that that was, like, a thing. And then, heaven forbid, he's, like, taking pictures of himself, sending it to some girl, and bless her heart, like, she received that and was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe, you know, this kid sent this to me and, oh, my gosh. So, like, it's a thing. You know, kids are doing this, and then there's girls going in bathrooms, you know, sending naked pictures, too. And it becomes this thing that takes them down a road they never thought they were going down. They think it's a cool thing to do, and it really exposes them to. To things that I know they never intended. And that's what happens when we don't have these conversations, when we don't give our kids guidance, when we don't allow them to come to us and to have, you know, really honest, raw questions and us be able to give them an answer. And so that's why we want to start these conversations early.

Yeah, you've got to start early. You've got to tie in your principles and your beliefs to it. It's not just the nuts and bolts, the birds and the bees, or just.

Saying don't do it.

Yeah. Or just don't do it. Don't do it, don't do it. Just. Just keep your pants on. Which, you know, isn't terrible advice, but, you know, kids need a lot more information than that. They really need for you to unpack. What did God intend when he made. When he created sex?

And why do I have these feelings? Yeah.

Where do these feelings come from? What am I supposed to do with them? You've got to be willing to walk with your kid through that. You've got to. I would challenge you to get them in a healthy youth group at church, because outside the home, it's not the school's job next. It's. It's the. The church where your kids should be learning about sex on a foundation of faith. And a healthy church, a healthy youth group is going to address these issues in a healthy way. It's going to be more than just don't do it. Don't do it. Even though until you're married. That is essentially a big part of the message. But the big questions of why and why this is such a gift. This isn't something dirty. This isn't something shameful. Every desire within you is something God put there that he wants to fulfill within the covenant of marriage between one man, one woman for life. And the world is settling for all kinds of counterfeit messages as it relates to sex. And if we're not tackling this head on, if we're not talking about consistently, you know, God's design for sex and what happens when we step outside that design, it's really, really gonna hurt, you know, ourselves and others.

This holiday season. There's no better place to get cozy holiday gifts for all your people than Aerie. From soft sweaters to everyday intimates and activewear, Aerie has the comfiest pieces made for the real you. And don't forget to treat yourself, too, while you're at it. You've earned it. Find your nearest Aerie store or shop online@aerie.com. give love real. Hey, welcome into Walgreens. Hi there.

Hey.

All right, hon. I'll grab the gift wrap cards and. Oh, those stuffed animals the girls want.

Great. And I'll grab the string lights and some. How about I grab some cough drops? This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.

I'm fine, honey. Well, just in case.

You know what they say, Tis the season. This is help staying healthy through the holidays. Walgreens. But, sweetie, why don't you talk a little bit about an analogy that's really resonated with our kids and with kids at youth group that you share when you're trying to create word pictures that your kids are going to get about what sex is supposed to be, what it's not supposed to be. It's all around the imagery of a fireplace, which I love. So tell us a little bit about that.

Right. Well, years ago, I taught middle school and I had to have this talk with the kids. And I thought, you know, I want to make sure they know sex is a good thing, but that it's something that is powerful and it needs to have. You know, there's boundaries that God has put in place. And so I just thought about a fireplace. You know, sex is a fire, and the fireplace is marriage. You know, it's designed to be within. Within the confines you know, of marriage. And. And that's where it is. That's where it's supposed to flourish. And when a fire's in a fireplace, it warms the whole house. It's a beautiful sight. It's something that is. Is awesome to experience. You know, we all want to get cozy by the fire. We want to roast marshmallows on the fire. But when a fire goes outside that fireplace, it causes destruction. It burns things, it hurts people. And it. It, you know, it has. It has kind of a path of destruction. It's not to say that when. When sex is outside of the bounds of marriage, it doesn't mean that we're damaged for life. I wanna make that very clear. And so we need to teach our kids about the grace that God has. But that it does come, it comes with some baggage. You know, when we. When we take sex outside of the boundaries of marriage and we use it in ways that God didn't intend it, then we're gonna be hurt. We're gonna carry that with us. And. And it's something that, you know, in the moment, it feels good and we don't think about those. Those consequences. But in the long run, you know, if we keep on sleeping with all these different people and we use sex just for our own satisfaction, or we get addicted to pornography, we use it in ways that hurt others and hurt ourselves, then we're not, you know, we're. We're really not going to be able to fully give our heart and our mind to our spouse in that. In that way that God really wants for us. And it will. Not that God can't, you know, heal us. Not that God can't even renew our mind and our heart. And we can't you know, we can always recommit ourselves to being sexually pure, so to speak, and to recommitting that, you know, to our spouse. But it's better to teach them now, you know, right out of the gate what sex is meant for. And it's something that is meant to be enjoyed. It's something also meant for procreation, we say for pleasure and procreation. And it's also something that represents the covenant that marriage really is. And it mirrors the covenant that Jesus has made with us, his bride, the bride of Christ, the church. And so it's this beautiful, powerful thing. And when that fire is kept going strong in the fireplace of marriage, it's beautiful. But we have to be so careful to not bring it outside that and to not use it in ways that it wasn't intended for. Because, you know, we do live in a world that says it's just an act, it's just something to give us pleasure. And we just need to, you know, fulfill our sexual needs. And that's all it's meant for. And however you do that, so, you know, whatever, as long as you're not hurting anybody else, it's fine, you know, and if you're doing it in the privacy of your own home, it's fine. But the bottom line is there's so many counterfeit ways, you know, sexual counterfeit things going on like pornography and ways that people use sex to just meet their own needs, that is harming themselves and harming others over and over again and then eventually leading to things like sexual abuse and, you know, using sex in ways where somebody did not consent and did not want this. And so we just really, we need to be our kids advocate as young as we can and start having these age appropriate but also very honest and pointed conversations where we're very clear about what sex is and how we're meant to experience this. And just talking about how it is, this gift, it's not a dirty thing, it's not a shameful thing when it's used in the way that God intended.

No, it is a beautiful gift. But just like every beautiful and powerful gift, Satan, who can't create anything, he can only pervert that which has been created. He tries to sabotage it and create counterfeits with it and use it as a weapon. And our culture has bought into that and is using sex as a weapon without even realizing the pain they're inflicting on themselves and on others. So we've got to go back to the biblical standard for what sex is. And you Know, Jesus himself, you know, he only affirmed two different kind of lifestyle choices as it relates to sex. One is celibacy, which is what he called, you know, being a eunuch. And maybe there are some who are listening, who you might have kids who are called to that. But for most, for most people, it's option B, which I'm thankful I'm an option B, and that is marriage. And the only kind of sex within marriage that Jesus affirmed is one man, one woman, within the monogamous covenant of marriage for life. That's the standard. That's what God wants for us. And that is where the best sex is going to exist. And anything outside of that is going to hurt. It's going to hurt you and it's going to hurt others. I'm so glad, Ashley, you brought up porn. I think that part of the sex conversation has got to include pornography in our time because our kids are being exposed to porn at just crazy early ages. You might think you've done everything, everything right to protect your kids from porn, and chances are they're going to see it. 19 out of 20 kids are exposed to porn before they hit their 18th birthday. Average age of first exposure now is 10 years old. So kids are getting sexual imagery put into their mind whether they were looking for it or not from before that they're even able to process it. Their mind and body aren't in a place to even process it. And it is, it is shaping their view of sex and sexuality. And if they feel like they can't talk to you about what they're seeing and experiencing and feeling, then they're going to carry those experiences themselves. They're going to try to process it themselves. They're going to deal with it in shame. Not being able to talk to you is also potentially going to put them in a dangerous situation. If they were to ever experiencing any type of sexual abuse, you come across some kind of sexual predator. Because if they are carrying like any kind of shame related to anything about sex, well, I can't talk to mom and dad about that. They might have experienced some horrific thing, unwanted touching, or possibly even something more grotesque and not be able to talk to you about it. Because you're not engaging in conversation saying, I want you to be able to tell me anything and let's talk openly about sex and God's plan for it and what happens when it's misused. And let them know if anyone has ever, ever touched you in an unwanted way that is not your fault. You did not do anything to ask for that, but I want you to be able to tell me. And together we're going to get help. Together we're going to protect you from anybody out there that might be in your life who's a wolf in sheep's clothing. We've got to be able to have these conversations because we're surrounded by, through technology. Pornography is a form of child sex abuse. The kids are being exposed to it and it's abusive and we've got to deal with that. But also, we're in a world where sadly, there are predators walking around among us and we don't have to live in fear, but we need to be vigilant and we need to be able to talk to our kids about these things and make sure they know we're a safe place for them to talk to as well.

I mean, we even just speaking about the predator side of things, we've very early, even before we had the actual sex talk, you know, with our older boys, I remember we've been having the conversation about touch, about appropriate touching, how you never touch someone's privates and you don't let someone else touch you. And that's either a kid or an adult. You know, we've always had those things. And if someone does, you tell us immediately. Right. And you fight for yourself. Like, we're like, you scream, you run, you go get another adult. Like, we, we just, you know, we want to teach them that early on because it is a sad reality that we do live in that there are people like that out there. And so we, you know, you want to teach your kids at an age appropriate level about that and to also be their own advocate, you know, if somebody were to kind of act in a. In a way where they're trying to do something terrible to your child. So, yes, definitely be having those talks even earlier than the sex, you know, kind of education talk, so to speak.

Yeah. And all the episodes of Law and Order, Special Victim Unit we watch probably have not, you know, they have not helped us because now I see a predator around. I know every corner. Guys, I hope that this conversation has been helpful to you. We've actually got a lot more resources on this, both articles, videos, other things as well, including my upcoming book that I mentioned, Raising Boys who Respect Girls, which you can find online, especially for those of you who are raising sons.

Specifically or even mentoring or mentoring boys. Absolutely.

Check that resource out as a way to understand the way that your son's mind is working the world he's growing up in, thoughts that he's feeling and just get into his world. Which is gonna help you engage in conversations in such meaningful ways.

Absolutely. You know, in the subtitle of Dave's book, it talks about how we need to address blind spots. And I think that that's the biggest thing is even with us as parents. You know, a big reason he wrote this book is that I think we all unknowingly have blind spots. That's why they're called blind spots. Because we don't realize that we're not addressing our own kind of maybe a personal issue or an assumption we've made about our kids and about how we raise our kids. And this book is so good about revealing where we all have some blind spots when it comes to raising our sons and how we can open up those blind spots so that we can see clearly and really be able to address those issues head on.

That's right. Yeah. And. And if you've got daughters out there, then you write the version for daughters. Because, like, I don't. That's a. That's a. I didn't want to step outside of my own expertise, so I kept it focused on the boys. But hopefully this conversation today has been helpful to you, whether you're raising boys or girls. We're going to transition into the way we end every podcast, which is with our Q and A segment. Normally, we. We answer them live on the podcast by questions you submit@makeandmarriagepodcast.com, which you can write. Write us there anytime. Or also you can write us on. On social media, Dave and Ashley Willis on Instagram or Facebook. But today we're going to kick back to a recorded live question we answered at one of our XO conferences, where we do a Q and A session. You can learn more about the XO conferences@xomarriage.com we'd love to see you at one of our live events. But here is a question from a recent event. What are your Internet social media phone usage boundaries in marriage, considering the time you both have and you spend with each other? So just kind of like a overview question of, like, what are our house rules when it comes to phone and social media and how that relates to protecting our marriage and our time together?

Yeah, no, that's a great question because we live in this age. We live in this age where you can be so connected by all these devices, but then you can also be miles apart with the people in your home. Right. And that's just kind of the world we live in. So we have to fight against that. So one role that Dave kind of put into place was that he and now me, like when I was at home with the kids, when our kids were younger, he just vowed that he would never come home and enter our house on his phone. And I just thought that was such a great rule because that meant when he entered our home, it was our time with him. He wasn't finishing up a call, and if he had to finish up a call, he would do it in his car. He wasn't gonna make us stand there while the kids are pulling at him and while I'm needing to talk to him and all this. And it really was awesome because it created more peace in our home. Another thing is, I mean, we just really try, you know, well, at the dinner table with our kids, we now have an almost 14 year old, an almost 12 year old, a 7 year old and a 4 year old. So our older two, they're very much in that, you know, cell phone age. And we don't let anybody have a phone at the table. Doesn't matter what if they're playing a game, it doesn't matter if they're still talking to a friend. It's like our family dinner table is a sacred place. It's something where we connect and we really value that time with them. And the older they get, it becomes even more that time more fleeting. And we just really, you know, we have to lay down the law with that. So we do that. That's a rule for us too. Because sometimes we can be in stuff.

And I think, you know, on a practical level of accountability, what we do with the Internet and social media is every device in the house, every device that we have, like between us, there's, there is a secret free guarantee in all aspects of life. There's no password to anything I have that she doesn't have access to.

Same with me.

There is never ever a reason why I would be freaking out that she was using my phone or on my phone for whatever reason. If you don't let your spouse look at your phone, that's messed up.

Yeah.

If you value your personal privacy at the expense of transparency and trust in your marriage, that's messed up. And I'll just say it that plainly because some people with pride will act like, no, this is my business, you know, you stay away from, from my foot. Like I'm telling you, man, that's where the serpent slithers in, you see?

So, right.

You gotta keep stuff out in the open. And so we have a software accountability on our devices, both for us and for our kids, we've got adolescent boys now that are in a world that's just bombarding like a lots of temptation their way. And so every device that we use, we've had Covenant Eyes, Custodio is what we're using. Switch to something called Custodio.

And it's not only accountability where it would email you if there's something that they're trying to look up that is, you know, pornography or not even just that like violent images. It could be anything. But it just kind of keeps us all accountable. But it also filters it. So it will block it. And then it will email Dave and I and let us know about each other, about our kids. And just, I mean just to tell you, it blocks marriage today. Sometimes blogs, sometimes they're about sex, sometimes.

Our own articles like we can't get on. We're like, oh, can you release the. Hold on this? I got to be able to.

I have to work is long.

Yeah, just transparency is key and accountability.

Hey guys, thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time.

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.

Of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month. Required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow. 135 gigabytes of network specific taxes and fees extra. Seaman mobile.com.