The Importance of Having Couple Friends

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Hey guys. Welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we Undress the truth about Sex, Intimacy and Lifelong Love. I'm so excited to be back in the studio recording full length episodes after our summer quickies, which were a lot of fun to do, but I'm excited to get down and sit down and dig into some topics. Today's topic is a great one. We're talking about the importance of having couple friends. But then at the end of today's episode, like we're doing at the end of every episode now, we're doing a Q and A time with a question that you've sent in by going to nakedmarriagepodcast.com and submitting a question. And today's question is a good one. So don't quit early on this podcast because it's a really good one. One quick announcement before Ashley shares a great review and thank you. For those who are leaving reviews, we would love to see you at one of our live events. The XO Marriage Conferences are coming to locations all over the country and potentially soon even outside the country. But we would love see you at one of these. If you go to xomarriage.com you can see the current dates that are locked in. We would love to see you there. That's right.

All right, I'm going to share a review from Baby Number One Mama. She entitled it Such a Relief. She says this podcast was such a breath of fresh air for me personally. It's so great to know that I'm not alone in my feelings and I'm not abnormal in comparison to other couples who seem to have it all together. I don't have a success story yet. My husband and I aren't exactly where we need to be, but I was able to share this podcast with my husband via text and he agreed it was a great lesson. Love that it's scripture based and safe. I have listened to podcast after podcast and can't seem to stop. I look forward to the day God transforms my marriage the way he has for this couple. Thanks for this podcast.

So good.

This warms my heart. Thank you guys so much for leaving these reviews, and please keep them coming. If you haven't left a review yet, you can just go to the podcast and leave your review right there. And we are so grateful when you do. So let's dive into today's episode.

The Book of Proverbs has so much timeless wisdom about friendships and relationships. And one of the verses out of Proverbs that I've always loved said, as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. And good friends are going to keep you sharp. Good friends are going to help make you a better person. But what we don't talk about enough is that as a couple, we need friends that are couple friends. You know, they can't just be his friends and her friends, because what happens if it's only his group of friends and her group of friends? And is that all your social interactions are going to happen separate from your spouse. And so while some of that's fine, obviously having some guy time, some girl time, there should be a goal and an intentional effort to build and cultivate relationships with other couples who will sharpen you, like, as one couple sharpens another. You know, the whole iron sharpens iron thing. And in our life, through the different seasons of our life, when we've had good community with other couples who are in a similar season of life and couples who are older who can mentor us, couples who are younger who can. Who can keep us on our toes and hope we can teach them things. Those couple friends have really helped us grow closer together as a marriage, as a family. But it takes work. And because it takes work, a lot of couples don't even try. You know, they just give up and say, well, you know, we tried that. It didn't work. So you have your friends, I'll have my friends, and that's that.

Yeah. No, and sometimes, you know, just to level with everybody, it can be awkward. I mean, honestly, it's like you're dating the couple. Like, is this gonna be a good match?

I know. I found this couple on Tinder. Yeah, Couple friend app.

It's right. We need a couple friend app. That's a good idea. Cause, like, seriously, I think sometimes we set ourselves up, though, to be disappointed. And I have been so guilty of this because you think in your mind, well, I need to be BFF with the wife, and, you know, Dave will need to be BFF with the husband. And if we don't have that kind of connection, then we can't be couple friends. But what I found in our almost 20 years of marriage and is that really, if you have one common thing, and that could be the fact that you have kids similar ages, you have some kind of interest in common, like, maybe, you know, you want to serve in the same way at church, like, maybe you're on the same team at church of greeting people and you enjoy doing that together, or maybe you enjoy the same kind of music, and so you attend concerts together. Maybe you're really into comedy, and so you go to comedy shows together. You know, whatever it is, maybe you're into ballroom dancing, and so you enter a ballroom dance class together, and that's the one kind of thing that you all have in common. That's okay. That's a great way to make couple friends, because I think that we set up these crazy high standards where we feel like we need to be getting with the individual spouses outside of getting together as a couple. And if we can't do that, we think they're not worthy of being couple friends. But that's just not the truth. You know, you can cultivate a friendship over the most minuscule thing, and it really can turn into something beautiful. And we've seen this over and over. You know, we grew up in Kentucky, moved to Georgia, then moved to Florida, then moved back to Georgia, then moved to Texas. So we've had a lot of transition in our life. But every time we have felt like our hearts are full and that things are going well is when we cultivate those friendships. And the times when we feel a little weary and we feel like we're, you know, kind of stranded on an island together is when we're not being intentional about that. And when we, you know, what we found out is when we do feel that loneliness, we usually haven't really made those very intentional moves towards friendship. And it takes great intentionality. It takes going to that class at church that maybe you otherwise wouldn't go to, but you're just trying to cultivate some friendships. It takes going to the neighbors and saying, let's hang out. You know, it takes, you know, and.

Putting yourself out there, which I know can feel awkward. It can feel like a first date all over again. It's like, do you like me? Do I like you? I don't know. I mean, do you want to. Do you want to hang out? And you've got to put yourself out there, And I think that in our culture, in our world, our default mode for most of us, myself included, is isolation. You know, we can do everything from a screen, and we can convince ourselves we're having meaningful community because we're interacting with people on the other side of a screen. We can get everything delivered to our house. We don't even have to go out in public as much anymore if we don't want to. And we've got to be intentional about connecting outside, because those relationships and, you know, God's plan for every part of life is really manifested through relationships. And when we isolate ourselves from each other, we miss out on so much of what life's really all about. And even for our marriage, your marriage is enriched. Like Ashley was talking about, it is enriched when you can learn and grow and be sharpened from other couples who will help you think in new ways or help you experience new things or, you know, go try some food you never would have tried. I mean, there are certain couple friends in our lives who, I don't know, they've just helped us see the world in different ways, and hopefully we have for them. And so we have been really intentional because we're still in a season of kind of transition. You know, we've been in Texas for about a year, but we were, you know, in the same place for a decade before that, really rooted. And so we're still kind of the new kids. And so we're. We're really trying to put ourselves out there and get with, you know, get with people and hang out with people. I mean, just in the last few weeks, you know, we went over to our audio engineer, Chris Stetson's house. Him and Aaron. We hung out with their family and had a good time. The kids had fun, had lunch after church on Sunday with a couple. Tonight we're getting with some people. And it takes a lot of effort and work, and it takes coordination, and sometimes it takes childcare and, you know, it takes effort. It takes effort. And I'm just saying it's worth. It's worth the effort to build relationships. You know, it's just simply worth the effort. So as for kind of the objections, people are like, well, we've tried the couple friend thing, but here's what happens. It's like, my wife is. Really has a connection with the wife in the couple, but I don't like the husband. We just don't have anything in common. Or maybe the two guys are just like instant bros. You know, they're texting gifts back and forth all day and, you know, laughing about whatever.

Which, by the way, is the way to be friends with Dave.

Yeah, it is. It's kind of my love language. I really enjoy it.

I mean, it's amazing. I am always just in awe of your gift game.

Well, the right. The right gift at the right time is the gift that keeps on giving. It really is. And so, you know, I do. It is an art that I'm working hard to perfect, but thank you for noticing. So the key is, like, what? Well, the key. Maybe the question. Question is what do you do in those situations where it's like, there's a couple and one spouse really likes hanging out with them because they connect so much to, you know, to the. The wife or whatever? And then the husband's like, well, I just don't feel the connection. Or vice versa. What do you do in those situations? You know, how do you. How do you make that work?

I would say go anyway. Go anyway. I mean, you know, it's gonna be something good where, you know, first and foremost, go, because you love your spouse, and your spouse really cares about this person and has a good friendship with this person. And so go in a way to support your spouse, because even if you don't like that other spouse, you're still spending time with your spouse, and you're also allowing your spouse some time with a great friend. And so that, in and of itself is a win. And. And I would say, you know, if it's. If it's becoming, like, excessive, where you're growing resentment, then maybe, you know, have a talk with your spouse and say, listen, I'll get with them from time to time, but I can't do it as frequently as you're probably wanting to do it because it's just torturous to be around this. This other spouse. We just don't have any connection. I feel like we're literally just staring at each other. Like, if it's like that, you know, find some balance there. But I would say don't completely cut it off because your spouse has found a connection with this particular wife. And so go as a support to your spouse. And who knows, maybe in time. It's really funny. Like, we've been part of a ton of different small groups, and they're primarily made up of couples, married couples. And I'm telling you, and if you're listening, group, you all. You all know this. It always starts out awkward, and you're like, I don't know if I would ever get with these people if we weren't in small group together. I Mean, that's what everybody thinks. You're looking around, like, I don't know if I would ever get with these people if we weren't putting a small group together. But then, you know, every time you meet, it's like you start growing together. And over time, just that investment in learning together, growing together, sharing information about your life with these people, you would be amazed what God will do. I mean, we recently went back to Georgia, and we did an event there, and we had this room where people could come and, like, have little snacks and kind of a little a before party, you know, I guess is what you call it. And it was mainly. When we looked around, it was mainly made up of all the different people over those 10 years we were in Georgia, that had been part of our group at some time. And it just warmed my heart because all of us are so different. Some of us are different ages, different, you know, phases of raising kids, different walks of life, different struggles everybody's gone through. But God brought us together. And I love those people. Like, I mean, just going around hugging their necks. It just brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. But I will tell you, when we first started out, our group, every single one of us felt awkward. And every single one of us probably told our spouse, I don't know if I want to go back there.

Yep. But we stuck with it. And you wade through the awkwardness. Like, most relationships of any kind have awkward phases, but you got to keep going. And it's amazing. It's amazing what happens. And one of the real benefits of cultivating those friendships, whether it's through a small group or just through individual friendships with other couples, is is it will bond you to your spouse in new ways. One, because you're spending more time with your spouse going out on these double dates or within these group settings. But something that we don't talk about as much is that just these other interactions, being exposed to new people and their ideas and their background, it will bring out new aspects of your own personality and your spouse's personality. And so you're gonna get to know your spouse in a new way simply by the friendship with these. With these new people. It's like, you can't fully know your spouse if you only spend time with each other, which sounds weird. You're like, if I really want to know my spouse, we have to be in isolation and only be around each other. If you really fully want to know your spouse, then you have to interact with each other in the context of other relationships, too. In the context Of. Yeah. Family, relationships and friendships. And in doing that, you're going to see every aspect of each other's personality, some maybe that have lied dormant for years that you didn't even know that you had or that he or she had. And so that's a fun part of it, too.

Absolutely. And I wanna say this, too. If you don't like getting with a certain couple because it brings out the worst in your spouse, that is a whole other issue. And I would say if there's ever a couple that does not move you towards God and is taking you away from God or away from your spouse, that is not a couple you need to hang out with. Because we wanna hang with couples that help us grow. Just like Dave opened up this episode with the proverb, you know, talking about iron sharpening iron. That's the kind of relationship we want. It doesn't mean we're not cordial with those people when we see them at church or see them in the neighborhood. But we don't have to be close friends with them because they're not moving us towards what God has for us. They're not moving us closer to him and they're not moving us closer to our spouse and to our family. It's not a good relationship.

No. That's so good. Yeah. You've got to be careful, like we're saying, you know, put yourself out there. You've got to be careful, though. And the main things to focus on with friendship is character. Always choose character over charisma. We're not saying put yourself in a close relationship with somebody who has a completely different value system. Even though I think God calls us to be light in the world, salt and light, which is to be in relationship with folks that might have a completely different value system so that we can encourage them and hopefully point them toward a relationship with God. But we've also got to be very wise about who our inner circle is going to be. I mean, this is something, you know, the Bible talks a lot about that bad company corrupts good character. It says in First Corinthians, we have got to be very intentional and encourage our kids to do the same of choosing this kind of inner circle of people who build us up, who we can do the same for them who have our back, who will pray for us, and we can do the same for them. You know, if you look at your marriage kind of like a cell phone. Ashley and I are always joking about charging up cell phones.

We were literally just talking about this because my phone was almost dead.

She's better at almost everything than I am. But there's one thing, one thing that I am way better at.

He is like, his number one strength is being strategic. And so it shows in the charging of the cell phone.

Charging of phones is my spiritual gift. I feel like that is something. It is.

God wired me up to you. You just like to think ahead. And I just tell him, I have more faith than you.

Yeah, she believes that her phone will just last on, you know, she'll.

No, you're just being responsible.

This has a point. All this has a point. One is that we should always charge our phones because you never know. It's a good way to plan ahead. Really why I'm talking about this. You need to find people who charge you up, not drain the life out of you.

Oh, yes, right.

And so relationships are give and take, friendships or give and take. There are going to be. Sometimes you have to do more giving and more pouring in because that friend might be in a situation or a season of life where they're going through a lot, and you've got to be the one that's really kind of pouring into them. But a healthy friendship is going to have a mutual effect of charging you both up. They're going to plug you in, and when you leave your time with them, you're gonna feel like, you know what? My tank is full. My heart is full. I'm charged up. We laugh together, we learn together, we grew together. And I feel charged up because I was with them. I feel better. And that should be kind of the way that it is. Most of the time in any kind of healthy friendship is they charge you up, don't drain the life out of you. There are going to be some people that they like drama, and they want somebody that's there for them that they can always pull kind of into whatever drama they're rolling around in and pull you down into the dirt and gossip about things and all that. That's not healthy. And you've got to put up healthy boundaries to just say, you know what? I'm not going to go there. You know, I want to be an encourager. I want to pray for you, but I'm not going to live my life pulled into somebody else's drama. That's not what we're talking about. And that's not real friendship. That's a codependent relationship that's going to hurt everybody involved. And so you've got to be again, you know, encourage other people. Do your best to minister to the people God brings in. Your path. But choose an inner circle of friends who will build you up, will make you stronger, that you can do the same for them. Where it is mutual, where you charge each other up, where you make each other sharper. And keep looking for those friends because they are out there. You might have to wade through some awkwardness at the beginning. You might have to work at it. You might have to schedule things, but it is always gonna be worth it. Some people think nature is like this, but actually, it's like this. Mother Nature's not all sunshine and rainbows. Nature can be hotter than a sauna and colder than an arctic skinny dip. That's why Columbia engineers everything we make for anything nature can throw at you. Columbia engineered for whatever steamer. Here, give me the dirt.

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And I think my favorite friends are ones who are always authentic and honest, because then I know that we're not the only ones who struggle with stuff. Like, it's okay to be with some people. And if you've gone out a couple times and every time you get with them, it's like they act like they never have a problem and everything is perfect in their life, they're probably not your people, and that's okay. And don't feel bad that you don't, because if you just feel horrible about yourself every time you get with the people, that's not being. That's not a good friendship either.

I can't measure up to these people.

Never be, you know, the parent they are, the spouse they are or whatever it is, you know, so, you know, be honest. And that's. That's a good lesson for all of us, too, is don't be afraid. And I know this comes with time. You know, there's an appropriate time. Like, you don't want to literally get with people that you've never barely had, you know, a conversation with and just completely unleash every deep, dark secret in your life. But, like, you want to be able to talk about the real things. And the best friendships are built on authenticity. I mean, we call this podcast the Naked Marriage podcast because, you know, we believe that spouses need to be best friends. And the only way you can cultivate that friendship and that kind of intimacy that comes. That needs to be in a marriage is through being naked, you know, spiritually and for marriage, physically and mentally, you know, you gotta connect in that way. Well, when it comes to just regular friendships, you gotta be honest. There has to be a foundation of honesty and authenticity. And if you feel like when you get with people that you can't be yourself, that's not good either. We need to be authentic to ourselves, but we also need to find people who are authentic and who are real and who aren't trying to put on masks and try to act like things are the way that they're not. Like just because they're trying to put on a certain kind of face in front of you. That's not a good friendship either, because you're never going to go anywhere when you're acting fake towards each other.

Yeah. If you're hanging out with people that are one way around you in a completely different way online and a completely different way with another group of friends, you know, that's not healthy. No. You want to find people and you want to be people that are authentic and are real. And, yeah, I'd say there are no perfect friends. There are no perfect people, but you can have a perfect friendship if everybody involved is being real and authentic and really trying to encourage each other.

Yes.

So, all right, that's great conversation about friendships. Hopefully that will kind of spark some new ideas between you and your spouse of who in your life you need to be more intentional about investing in, you know, taking those first steps, sending those text messages, being the ones to try to schedule things, and really, really being intentional about that. I know everybody's life's busy. I know there are lots of. Lots of excuses and reasons why we can say it was just not the right season or the right time, but always make time for friendship. It is.

It's worth it.

It's worth it. It's worth it. All right, so we got a great question, because if you remember, we are now at the end of every one of these podcasts doing a Q and A time, because the Q and A segments have been such a popular deal and we've gotten great feedback. If you want to submit a question, you can go to nakedmarriagepodcast.com and on nakedmarriagepodcast.com you can submit a question. We read all those and we pick out questions, and we answer some of those questions. We'll even get turned into entire episodes on the Naked Marriage podcast. So, okay, here's the question for today. Hope you guys are ready. It says, what is Your advice to help me change my voice tone toward my husband. His mom was amazingly happy all the time. My mom was not. So my example of how to sound like I want to without necessarily feeling that way is hard for me, I guess. I'm not a good actress, and I have a hard time sounding happy. All right, so here's the question. You know, put it out there. It's like, husband grew up with. With, you know, a mom who talked one way. Wife grew up with a mom who talked the other way. So the husband has this expectation that this is how, you know a wife. The tone that a wife's supposed to have. The wife's like, well, that's not me. That's not what I'm used to. When I do things my way, it offends him and hurts his feelings. But when I'm not doing things my way, I feel like I'm being inauthentic. I feel like it's a lose, lose. So what do we do in this situation?

Right? And I can sense, just in that question, that she's frustrated, you know, and she probably feels like she's being compared to his mother. And I think we will. We have. We were talking about this question before we started the podcast, and we were like, you know what? We should do a whole episode on this, because, my goodness, there's a lot we can say about it. But in the short, I'm gonna answer this question today and then be looking in the future for another episode about this. I would say she needs to be authentic to who she is. You know, he didn't marry her because he thought he was marrying his mother. Okay? He married her, and she needs to be who she is. She doesn't need to feel like she needs to be just like his mom. But I will say, even though she's being authentic to herself and that's what she needs to be, you can do that in a kind way. So even though she grew up maybe with a mom who just, you know, was barking out orders, that's not healthy, and she doesn't need to be doing that, but she does need to be honest. I think she was saying kind of his mom would never really rock the boat and was happy most of the time, so she wouldn't really address issues because they didn't bother her. You don't need to act like things don't bother you. You need to be honest. And in fact, I mean, I learned this the hard way. You need to come out with it earlier rather than later. I mean, I waited for 10 years once to tell Dave that I hated him making my plate. And then I, like, splurted what I like to call word vomit on him and told him how much I hated it. That's not good. And I told myself, well, I shouldn't say anything because I just need to act like it doesn't bother me. But that's not authentic to who I am. I'm a very honest person. Just tell me I like who I dressed.

10 years. I didn't even like putting together your plate of food. I just. I know acts of service is my love language. I just thought you liked it. For 10 years, I never liked it.

And I never said anything. I just, like, had a. Probably a sort of slight, weird smile, acting like I liked it, but it was really, like a resentful smile.

You gotta be honest. We laugh about a lot of these things now, but you've got to just be honest with each other. But at the same time, I think our default mode can sometimes lead us to a place that isn't healthy.

Right?

Because we, by default will tend to do what we saw in our house growing up, even if it wasn't healthy. And so you need to be able to step back from the situation enough to say, okay, now what part of this is just my personality that I need to be true to? But then what part of this is me taking on kind of, in a lot of ways, a generational curse, a generational brokenness, and emulating something that isn't healthy? And if, you know, barking orders around each other from either spouse, no matter what your personality is, having just kind of a negative, complaining bent is not healthy, no matter what your personality is. I think that we all have aspects of our personality that we have to overcome, that we have to go against what we're feeling sometimes. And that's not being fake, but that's rising above and choosing to lead our feelings instead of being enslaved to our feelings. And the Bible has a lot to say about this, about choosing to focus on. Focus on that which is good and pure and excellent, worthy of praise. Philippians 4. 8 talks about that in other places that we're called to step above whatever the situation is that we're feeling and show kindness and tenderness to each other. Now, with that being said, while our default mode should be kindness and tenderness to each other, the marriage has to be a safe place for both of you to fully express what you're feeling without judgment. To just say, man, I'm having a hard day. Like, I am just. I'm having a hard Time, I'm struggling. But in that honesty, that doesn't give us a license to be rude and disrespectful to each other. And so that's where you two have to find that balance. That's where you two have to be really honest about sharing your feelings, but at the same time being sensitive to how your spouse is feeling by the way you're sharing.

Absolutely. And so how do we change our tone of voice? It really starts in the heart. It starts with, with humbling ourselves towards the Lord, recognizing that we have a bend a certain way and that we struggle with maybe, you know, and I don't know for sure, I mean, she didn't say that her mom was barking out orders, but definitely said her mom was more negative toned. And so if you have a tendency to be negative, ask the Lord to help change your heart with that and he will, you know, and that is a struggle that I think many of us can struggle with is negativity and not necessarily seeing the positive and only seeing the negative. So, you know, go to the Lord in prayer and ask him to change your heart. But also be willing to talk through these things with your husband. I don't think that you need to just act like nothing bothers you. Go to him and say, listen, I don't wanna look at this in a negative way, but I'm feeling a certain way about this. And when you talk calmly like that and you just share your heart with your husband and you're not, you know, intense about it or mean about it or just barking it off, you know, at him, then he's going to listen and he's gonna talk through that with you. And so I think it's all about leading with kindness and keeping a soft heart towards each other. And I think as long as we keep on doing those things, then we're gonna approach each other in a much healthier way than if we're hard hearted and we just are seeing the negative in the situation.

Man, that is so good. And never outwardly or even internally compare your spouse to your parent.

No. And we'll do an entire episode because.

I think that is such a big deal.

It is.

Guys, if you're comparing your wife to your mom, man, you are gonna lose. And wives, if you're comparing your husband to your dad, like, oh, my dad would always, you know, do this and could always. I mean, God, that is just. That is gonna really, really cause deep wounds. And so we do plan to do a future episode on that specifically. Yes, but sweetie, as always, such great wisdom you shared on really, both the topics today, the question and and then the main topic about couple friends as well. So for those who are listening, guys, thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you for reviewing. Thank you for helping people discover the Naked Marriage podcast and the Naked Marriage book as well, and all the resources that we're part of creating here at Marriage Today, including the other podcasts, the Marriage Today and the XO podcast, which if you're not listening to.

They're awesome.

They're awesome. You should be. There's just a great wealth of marriage resources available. You can go to marriage today.com and that's a good starting point to really tap in, tap into all of it.

That's right. Thank you guys so much for joining us, and we will see you next time.